@@angelabenedict I always thought goth girls were sexy. I find it cruel to ridicule a person based on their appearance. Course I don't have much experience in dating cause my relationship status be in the toilet. So I'm single as fuck.
I have gotten to a point where I'm only interested in dating fellow goths or those of the alternative subcultures. I've had experiences where men only view me as something weird and experimental, not because they genuinely have an interest in who I am as a person. One guy I had been talking to didn't even introduce me to his friends by my name, but as his "big titty goth gf". I felt so disgusted and objectified. The crazy part was we weren't even dating. I'm a human being. Not something you can put on a leash and punch around to get your rocks off. It's infuriating and I don't want to deal with that experience again.
Ugh - that's horrible. I'm so sorry you had to experience that. Fellow goths are certainly a lot easier and given the objectives of the normies that pursue us, it's not worth the risk.
@@Ed-shot500 im weirdly the opposite, im the alt person with lots of normie friends. The alt kids when i was younger were douchebags and the normal people for some reason treated me better well for the most part. So even i was too much of a freak for the outcasts. I can hang with anyone who has mutual respect and pretty much any community has its dickheads and ive had shitty experiences with both alt and normal people. i also hate how its "cool" or trendy to be alt now, like the youth got it so easy its glorified the culture has mostly diluted down the aethestics alone. For a lot of outcasts being yourself was a middle finger to societal norms, nowadays its just a fashion trend for the chronically online to copy.
Utterly unrelated to the subject at hand but-- Not enjoying some of the subgenres under the umbrella of goth music doesn't make one fake, its called preferences. What would be fake is that person listening to those subgenres when they hate it just to keep up appearances. Are you a goth?
@@angelabenedict right! for as long as someone has a fondness for and an interest in the music, they are a goth. goth music is incredibly diverse with its vast sounds and subgenres, so why bother enforcing the idea that the REAL way to be goth is by listening to 80's post-punk and 90's underground bands? of course, i'm not saying that "you don't have to listen to goth music to be goth." i'm saying not every goth will enjoy each and every goth subgenre and underground band out there.
Oh, I know. Estoy de acuerdo contigo. Normie men who find goth girls beautiful and sexy. It's just so unholy and wrong. Que perversidad! If only we could return to the days when normie men found goth girls hideous and disgusting.
I'm dating a normal guy. I chose him because we were friends before, he respects me, and he's never tried to change me. I shaved my head bald (no eyebrows either) I looked like Nosferatu for months and he was still all hugs and kisses. He lets me play my music in the car and takes me to the clubs so I can drink and get home safe. Weird how a lot of guys won't do that but are absolutely rabid to get with a goth. It always felt like my ex was waiting for me to "be normal". Made fun of my music, hated the look, ect. My current s.o. literally laughs out loud when we joke about what it would look like if I did put in the effort to be a "normal" for even a day.
I'm not a goth, but I'm very much into darker, macabre stuff. When I was growing up in school I was kind of a tomboyish, metalhead girl that was really into horror movies. Guys either treated me like I was a complete weirdo, completely invisible, or I was just one of the guys. When I got older I noticed a lot of dudes, particularly on social media, fetishizing "metal chicks" and "goth girls". This completely confused me because those girls were mostly ignored or sometimes bullied from my experience.
We've remained on their radar for decades to be the subject of unwanted attention. From ridicule to sexualization. I don't suppose in a decade they'll want us for cooking tips?
Growing up I was bullied as well-I was known as the weird girl that not only likes to read but likes weird scary stuff and a tomboy. I've always followed the traditional goth path but also doing my own thing. (In other words I'm always off the beaten path not following what everyone else is doing.) Fetishizing a style for the sake of just because is wrong to me-genuinely liking a person for who they are is what matters. Human actions can be so confusing sometimes.
Damian Thomas Knight Wayne I have The Cure on heavy rotation on my playlist; it's hard to pick my favorite Cure song because I like them all. I'll confess It's Friday (I'm in Love) plays quite a bit in my head at random points of the day lol. It's catchy I can't help but sing along. (I'll always like my eighties music because I was born in 77, grew up in the eighties and became an adult in 1996. I like different flavors of music and always will. It's a tiny bit of what comprises of my DNA lol.)
@Daathiel These goth girls don't care. If you're a man and you're physically attracted to her, that makes you a pig. If you're a good-looking goth guy, they just might let you skate but, rest assured. The ice beneath your feet is a lot thinner than you believe.
Back in the day, goths and the metalheads were the freaks, outcasts, and weirdos. And we took a little bit of pride in that individualism. Especially if you grew up in a small town. We were never really sought after, just bullied, or left alone if we were lucky. It's only until very recently that goths have been fetishized. But I have only dated one other goth.
There are a lot of things from my youth I loved that seem to be more accepted now, but when I get involved I get told how wrong I am in my particular taste or way of doing things. I think for Goths it is likely what people consider Goth music or not that strikes the closest to the heart. It is like there are all these 2D cardboard cutouts of my youth as relics of a lost time that are almost worshipped yet to me they are just all cheap replicas, and the geniune article is still ridicule and at times harder than it ever was in the past.
Yeah like now every basic person is saying I want a metal head boyfriend or I want a goth gf like I hate it cause they don’t understand anything about our culture or respect
I met one of my best friends years ago when we both worked together. I was walking past her one day and my phone went off playing my Type O Negative ring tone. We started talking about music and that was that! 🖤
Dating apps are hell as a goth . It’s full of crusty basic dudes looking for Goth girls. One time on Tinder a basic looking non-Goth guy messaged me about how much he loves Goth girls. I asked why and he said “because they are always smarter and more interesting than non-Goth girls” . I responded with “yea, Goth guys are always smarter and more interesting than non-Goth guys also” . He unmatched with me . Guess he couldn’t take the comment fired back at him.
That comeback was awesome. I had good luck with Metalhead Dating, not sure if it is still around since I've been with the same dude for 9 years. I remember it being free so that was a plus.
I made my profile specifically to not fully show anything explicitly goth, but surely there are subtle hints for someone who has done some research. I went on a date with a guy who came across fine in messages but ended up being a creep (final straw was when he said he was going to drug my drink as an unrelated/ inappropriate joke, should have walked out far sooner though tbh). He asked what music I liked and I said "stuff under the rock umbrella / subgenres" and he just started listing goth bands that I am fairly certain isnt his thing / he isnt with the goth scene here. That was eerie as fuck. With the comments he had made all together ("you seem like a pixie dream girl I'm looking for", sexual comments or just touching me after I politely redirected, asking me about things that my composure would have let him know quite clearly if he could read the room were not okay) and the drugging my drink comment he thought was okay, I immediately let ppl in my scene know to watch out just in case.
@@clockworkoregano Oh god , I'm so sorry that you had to go through that :( The drugging the drink thing isn't funny to say to anyone. That guy sounds completely sick in the brain.
Or maybe he unmatched because you responded with an insult for the praise he obviously meant to give you. God forbid one respond with, "Oh, thank you, I'm so glad you think so. But, I don't want you to think non-goths are never interesting, either." No, that would be too courteous. Too non-gothic a response to a filthy, untermench non-goth.
I ended up marrying a metal head. ( I’m a Goth/ Metal hybrid).At first I wasn’t too sure about him( thought he might have a Goth fetish )but when we spent two hours talking about music on our first date, I decided to give him a chance. Over time he learned about the subculture and is now into a bit of the music. Now he’s a Metal/Goth hybrid, but still heavier on the metal side. I’m heavier on the Goth. And we both Like punk as well. Music is not the only common ground either. We like to hike and fish, ghost towns, and traveling.It’s nice to have someone so different from all the idiots who I dated when I was younger.
I've noticed that goths and metalheads seem to come together quite neatly. From what I understand the metal subculture is very similar with the way music is viewed.
Angela Benedict Metal is a music subculture too and Metalheads like a lot of the same things as Goths like horror movies and darker stuff. A lot of the music deals with the same topics Goth does too. I always thought Goth Metal and Punk deal with the shadow side of life and helps people deal with the hard stuff life throws at you. I use music to help me deal with my CPTSD issues. My husband can actually tell by the music I listen to how I’m doing mentally.
My wife and I dated in high school in the 90’s. 20 years later we found each other on Facebook. She was goth in high school and I was just a regular skater boy. During the past 20 years she had so many relationships where the other person was more interested in changing her for who they wanted. Not who she was/is. We both love the same kind of music, horror movies, books, traveling, camping… after years of dumb relationships it’s nice to be in a healthy one.
I have plenty of empathy for Goth women who have been (and continue to be) objectified in any way. As a Goth male, I have mostly dated normies, and none of those relationships worked out. I'm currently happily engaged to my partner who also happens to be my first Goth girl. At the end of the day, love is love, but dating within the subculture has definitely been a more fruitful experience for me.
Dating within the subculture certainly has its ease. We have that common ground of being part of the subculture so music choices are rarely an issue and we share a temperament. I'm sorry your past relationships didn't work out but also not sorry because it led you to your fiance!
I’m a darker skinned goth and back in the day the goth guys I knew all wanted pale girls. Weirdly I’m a cholo magnet and oddly frat guys hit on me a lot. It was a fetish thing for them. I dated garage band guys.
Really interesting video to come across, as it's a debate a friend and I had. I'm in my mid 20s from the UK. I've dated a 'basic' girl, and a goth. The basic girl and I didn't connect, mainly because music is such an integral part of my life. I'm mainly into Post-punk, punk rock, Darkwave, Grunge etc. The normie girl seemed like a lot of fun, but we weren't clicking in all honesty, she'd only really take interest in something if it was played in Stranger Things or some sort of Netflix series, or if she seen it on TH-cam. Also the fact that she didn't support me doing my band, she'd not understand my guitar style and suggest I learn more 'normal' music, unfortunately I broke it off, and her parents were only in their 40s, so knew me as 'Gerard Way Guy' because apparently I look similar to him. I was at a small show, and seen a girl who was super striking, like a dark goddess. Not many people are that unique and many don't like to be different here, and I could tell this was naturally her, this wasn't an e-girl trend, this was real. I was instantly enamoured, and had to introduce myself. I instantly wanted to know more about this person, because her style was impeccable. I kind of stood next to her, gave a few smiles, and after the show we got chatting outside. Very quick witted, and intelligent. I said I'd walk her to the train station, and she said ''Is that your job as the Sheriff?'' I was a little confused, but on my leather jacket I wore a 'Sheriff Badge'. I found this rather funny. I asked if maybe we could go to a show together sometime, and she gave me her number. 3 years later and I'm happily dating this wonderful girl. I took her to see Clan of Xymox the day she said yes. We share a strong taste in music, we both listen to a variety of genre's, we both have the same movie tastes, television shows, documentaries, and she even loves my clothing and gets me some amazing clothes. I played a show and she came to watch, not a very big audience, but my eyes were glued to her the entire set, and my friends are super cool with her too. I showed her this video, and she agrees. Turns out, she had and still does have guys try hit on her, and she said they are often (what I imagine Americans would call them ''jocks'') type guys, football guys, social media thrift store guys and the biggest one is Anime guys, and she said just about all of them will say those types of derogatory things and treat her like a fetish. One of them apparently tried to talk about Machine Gun Kelly, Khloe Kardashian etc.. and asked if she's a 'freak' they like the 'fetish' of it, but don't share the same interests as those in the goth subculture. I think if someone is a grunge, goth or punk type guy, and likes a goth girl, it's probably because they know the goth girl is going to share their interests. But to like a goth girl because it's 'a different flavour' and to just fetishize them is quite disturbing, and not going to win over one of the most intellectual and interesting people. I just realised I've rambled like crazy, my girlfriend knows I adore her more than anything on this planet, but I also know she hopefully won't read this comment section haha.
I'm a 31 year old woman who has had a witchy black thing going on for over a decade, I've been caught in the crosshairs a few times with this very issue you're speaking up about. Do you know how much music has been injected straight into my heart as soon as I learned goth was a MUSIC subgenre and not a fashion thing?! Ugh, ignorance. My 14 year old self would have been so thrilled to know about goth music - i feel like I've lost a lot of time. So I just want to say thank you for all this labour you do for your community. You're making a difference by informing normies like me. I'm always excited for every video you release.
sadly people say I fall under the stereotype of "The big tiddy goth girl". I was harassed by a lot by guys in my home town, I even stopped posting on insta and twitter because I kept getting gross DMs from guys. When I would ignore or tell a guy I'm not interested they would then say "well, I wasn't interested anyway" then make fun of me. I even dated a guy that was into the goth girl thing and he wanted me to dress "normal" in public but just around him he said my fashion was okay. He made fun of my music and interests as well. Needless to say I'm thankful for my husband, He isn't goth but he pushes me to be myself and accepts me. (even got him into some of my music recently! lol)
I wish more guys were like that and respecting boundaries and not expecting them to change without changing in return had to block a couple of guys cuz of it
As long as they let goths be goths, they can have fetishes. I'm a goth gal and had awesome experiences with normie men with foot fetishes because I have them too. Their foot massages were to die for, lol! @@sigmaK9
I’m exceedingly colorful for a goth, lots of brights with my black wardrobe…and I’m a huge nerd. 🤣 I often attract nerdy mundane looking guys! Certainly I’ve been fetishized (especially in my all-black outfits)…but in my proper relationships, I find my partners have sought me out because they feel more comfortable exploring the subculture with me around, and me giving zero f*cks encourages them to expand their horizons in general. We (as goths) have an acceptance of darkness as a necessary and even beautiful part of life, and I think we tend to be expansive/progressive, giving others space to really be who they are. If that’s the reason someone wants a goth girlfriend, I am ALL in!! 🖤🖤🖤
I did date guys of the subculture, but one was a controlling, emotional abuser and the last goth guy I dated was a elitist mamas boy. My boyfriend is a norm, but is more of a geek and plays of alot of video games, he may not be a goth but he likes alot of the music
Yep! I’m dating a nerd who likes dnd. We bond over our love for video-games. He loves me just the way I am, and got me tickets to see Bauhaus for my birthday ❤️ Value people as they are. Don’t seek someone out to fulfill your romantic or sexual fantasies.
"Don’t seek someone out to fulfill your romantic or sexual fantasies." Goth girls ain't got what it takes to fulfill either one. As expected. Goth girls are only good for tense, uneasy alliances at best but, their REAL specialty is their supreme hatred for normie men.
Thank you so much from the bottom of my black heart for saying you gave up your identity as a Goth in a relationship. When I had just moved out of my parents' house and was FINALLY able to start to grow into my gothy self, I started dating a guy who is exactly what you're talking about and I gave it all up. I slowly began going back after I left him but it took me over 10 years to fully grow into and be comfortable with my goth identity. (I'm 43 now...it's not a phase, Mom! LOL) It's comforting to know others have experienced the same.
Angela, the white tunic looks so good on you. I remember getting an ad for a band on Instagram that truly sounded goth, it was really nice so i wanted to hear more. Until i found that their previous single was something called "big t-ttied goth b-tches". I think i was mad about it all day. Like the menace coming from inside the house.
Took a very long break from the goth community and in this break met my wife. For almost a year I am back in the community and define myself as a Goth- my wife is kind of a 'normie' (she likes spooky stuff but isn't a Goth at all) 🙃 We love each other, respect each other as we are and I don't force my lifestyle on her. It can also work out if respect and freedom are left on both sides. I know some Goths who would rather stay single than date a normie, often for fear of being laughed at and no longer taken seriously 🤔 The points around the fetishization are again another topic and unfortunately also nothing new 🤷♀️
I feel like a big thing is that they confuse the Goth community with the BDSM community because of the aesthetic for leather and lace, and the aesthetic for the color black, and the aesthetic for pain and pleasure. They don't seem to get that not everyone that dresses in black leather and lace is actually a Goth. It's kind of sad actually that they lump all of it into one person or one type of person because the thing people don't seem to realize is that there are different types of darkness the same way there are different types of normies.
also, a lot of very kinky people dress completely vanilla on a daily basis because they have to keep their lifestyle discreet for work, family, and community reasons.
Simple answer: No. Goths do NOT only date other goths. My boyfriend is not part of the goth subculture, but we still love each other and he accepts me as a person. He thinks the goth scene is cool, but he's just not really into going to clubs or parties with a lot of people. There are no written rules within the scene that says that goths are only allowed to date other goths. That being said, goths do indeed get a bad rep as being kinky freaks; partly because of the mainstream, but also because of people in the scene trying to continuously make fetish synonymous with goth. Yes, this does happen. There are those in the fetish scene, especially in South Florida, who are always trying to make fetish "goth". You also see a lot of goth pages on social media and a lot of people on those pages share fetish photos and art. I recently got into an argument with a guy who shared photos from a fetishisy party where people were being tied up, and he did this on a goth page; I and a few others had to explain to him how what he shared had nothing to do with the subculture and that things like this give outsiders the wrong idea when it comes to the goth scene. Yes, there are some in the goth scene who are into fetish, but then most people who are into fetish are also NOT goth. People in both subcultures need to stop making goth synonymous with fetish. I think if this happened, then that could be a major step toward addressing this issue. Normies on the outside see that and are basically being told by these people that goth subculture is fetish culture, and it just continuously irks me.
This is true too. There are fetish nights in NYC where the music they play is goth and industrial, and of course a lot of my goth clubbing friends go, but then there is a "fetish performance" and we are like "I wish I didn't just see that" but they get us to go to fetish nights for the music, because if it were a fetish night that played top 40 I wouldn't go.
wow I discussed the exact same thing in one of Orphea's video (another goth youtuber) in where I live the goth subculture is so intertwined with bdsm that I feel disconnected from it. I end up not even going to the clubs (therefore having 0 goth friends) because I dont feel comfortable in an environment that plays goth music but the rest is all about bdsm. Even the alt/goth clothing stores here, all they sell is vynil and latex and harnesses like oh my goodness... that's so annoying
@@Luisa_san it can be very annoying. There is one particular "alternative" store here in Fort Lauderdale called, get ready for it, Fetish Factory. (Roll my eyes). They sell actual "goth" clothing, but only at the front of the store. The rest of the store is all BDSM stuff. But thankfully here, not all the goth parties are co-oped with BDSM. We have two specialized Fetish parties here that remain separate from the goth scene; so I'm happy about that. But I feel you, I would very annoyed if every goth party was also treated as a Fetish party. I wouldn't go. We once had a promoter here who tried to co-op with a fetish promoter from Submission for a goth/fetish night and many people in the scene refused to go to it. The scene here DOES NOT want Fetish and Goth to be mixed together.
@Angela Benedict, I think this should be a topic to be discussed on the channel. I know it's a touchy one because many people in the scene are also heavily into fetish, but many in the scene don't want fetish to be associated with goth for many of the same reasons that you have been talking about in regards to our scene being fetishized.
I'm Japanese (Scottish and Irish, but look a little more Asian) and dress alternatively. It's definitely weird and super rude when men (or old women) give "suggestions" as to how I should dress or act. Like no Karen I don't want to wear bright country club clothes because that sounds traumatic for me
I have a friend who dated this guy who talked a big game about being goth and being so into goth clubs and shit. Once their relationship started, he dropped the facade and made her dress down, not to mention he was abusive as fuck, and she actually had to beat the shit out of him once. The fetishization of goth women needs to stop yesterday!
I was with a guy who used to beat on me when I was a teenager. I got to a point where I started to fight back instead of just letting him beat me up and when I told a couple of people about him hitting me they basically told me that I was just as bad as he was.....because I started defending myself. Good on your friend for standing up for herself and getting out of that relationship!
Maybe I get more normal guys because I come from a conservative family so putting on a pastel dress in summer is ok for me. I have had boyfriends who are darkly inclined, like metal or classical, SCA, steampunk, gaming, art, nature, museums, etc. But hey aren’t goth. I have red hair so I notice many guys have a red hair fetish too. Men are strange.
My girlfriend is the brightest, most sweet pastel-loving cutsie woman you will ever meet. Which I cheer for her for 100%! Just like she celebrates my love of the dark a macabre, with all my black clothes and adoration of horror. Maybe it’s easier with sapphics, but really it is about loving and supporting the Person, and wanting them to be happy.
I had a normie guy who was interested in me and thought that he could make me fall in love with him over time no matter what including the fact that I said I wasn't interested in a relationship at the moment. He and his mom were very against me looking goth and dark. Basically the whole "oh you'd be so pretty if you didn't wear all that black/ make up etc." "You need a makeover" treatment. I used to add even more black eye makeup to piss that guy off because he was being disrespectful, controlling and also exhibiting stalker-like behavior on top of it. The last time we spoke he started telling me about how much black clothing I should have in my closet. I told him at the end of the conversation that I'd talk to him later & for him that later never came. Now I'm dating a wonderful Goth guy who is as into the subculture as I am, is a complete gentleman, shares interests in me and is my best friend. Good luck to all of you guys out there looking for love. Xoxo
This video literally made me feel like a million dollars if I had a million dollars but that's literally how you just made me feel. I've been subjugated The last 5 years to men literally writing out lists of the type of women they would like to sleep with and as your video had advertised exactly what I just went through was men fantasizing over the etiology of dating goth women. I had just the same as you did lost I'm at four and a half years finally rebuilding my music playlist rebuilding my apartment rebuilding everything in my life I had to fall into my mother's lap who is Arabic and her husband is very Arabic as well and my father who is Roman Catholic. I was very fortunate to have family members that actually support me because we're all very different but nonetheless rebuilding your own identity after being told that you're just a lay or switch a belt is a lot of work 🖤🖤🖤 thanks for this video made me smile!!🖤🖤🖤
I avoided most normie guys for a long time because of the fetishing of the goth girl thing. That said, I arrived a metalhead cowboy. 🤣 He used to think I was weird, and my friends were weird, and my crazy hair was weird. He was always nice though, and we became friends. We met at work, and after a few years found out how much we had in common. He never asked me to change my looks or tastes. I'm still goth, though being a mommy of 2 boy gremlins, I look more like a tired hedge witch than anything. What a guy looks like doesn't matter as much as how he looks at you. What he is into isn't as important as him being into you, not just your look. Edited for dumb fingers.
In the first 2 min of this video you stated exact what I came here for. In the 90’s if you were “alternative” you were picked on. I wasn’t goth in the 90’s. I was the skater, and had plenty of times being picked in and even being chased down by college dudes in Camaro’s physically trying to hurt my friends and I. All of this “thirst” for goth girls is just a marketing scheme on social media. “Who should goth girls date?” Someone that accepts them for who they are inside and out. Someone that adores and loves them for the person they are. Find someone that looks at you like a puppy would. Embrace who each other are as individuals and as a unit. Thank you for your videos. Speaking out on how people were treated in the 90’s. You’re the voice of our generation on YT.
I kinda think that some of today’s female public personalities have contributed to the desire for Goth women based on their aesthetic (Megan Fox, Dita Von Teese, Billie Eilish, etc)
@@elenatalamantes6281true, they didnt mean she was goth but her style and aesthetic influence definitely can lean gothic or gothy to outsiders. a lot of goth women i know love and admire dita and get compared to her. she’s very associated with the “dark and mysterious” look of elegant side of goth fashion and plus she dated marylin manson.
My ex-husband did much the same thing to me, BUT he was an actual goth/punk who was heavily into the music. I have only had bad experiences with goth/punk men. My current husband doesn't like goth music at all BUT he has never once told me to stop listening to it. He is very supportive.
I've been a Goth since for 24 years: in those 24 years I've spent 10 of them with Goth girlfriends; the other years struggling with grueling normies. In the words of The Misson UK.... NEVER AGAIN. 🚫
You are so right in everything. I have those things happen to me when I was younger. Guys dating me, but only "when we were alone or on some type of club". Rest of time I was never "right" to show for their friends or family. Even on clubs some thought it was ok doing whatever they wanted. When a few mainstream guys came to goth clubs, they still thought their actions were ok. My friends had to help me from them (and I am most of time able take care about myself plus I am 5'8), specially the drunk ones. Some guys were forbidden to come back to the club. When I visited a friend one guy thought he was the one for me. I was not intrested and it was my first travel to friends in another town after the big car accident. I lost my boyfriend in that accident and almost lost my own life. So I was not intrested at all of someone else, cause I was still crying inside after my boyfriend. He refused and the pubs owner tried to help me, ended up the police had to come and take that guy with them... About my inboxes on different communities. Yes, I have had and still have my share of un wished messages, from "less rude" to very bad one including dick pics. And I am soon 54 and still got those. Worst is when I a few time answer back (if it was someone I followed and thought was ok) and they were angry at me. Like I was the one making things wrong! I wish we could be ourselfes with or without makeup and certain clothes. We live in modern time and those things shouldn't have to still go on. Thanks for letting hopefully even more people outside the subculture about those things. Stay safe Angela 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
So many people are fake in general in relationships. Many focus too much on appearance and don't consider an actual human being on the inside. I am not Goth but also have struggled with so many men in general treating me as a sex doll.
Agreed. It makes us so guarded that sometimes when someone's just being nice we're kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. But appearance seems to be the primary if not the only focus nowadays. You're not goth but you certainly look alternative and different from the norm and Goth is the label that gets slapped on anyone nowadays that's not a normie as kind of a catch-all term.
The problem that I face being goth is that a lot of people I meet assumes (and delete if not suitable) that Im automatically into BSDM? The amount of people who have assumed I’m that way inclined and that’s the reason they’ve pursued me to find out I wasn’t and then insult me for apparently “leading them on” like what? Or they assume I’m mean. I always get the comment “wow you’re actually really nice” or “considering how you present you’re actually really down to earth” such back handed weird comments.
Here, here!!!! Would love if you would do follow up on this. I’ve always been punk/goth n the fetishisation is rediculous. On dating apps 90% of introductions I get from people are “are you into kink”- I just delete.. yes I’m into kink but there’s a lot more one should have conversations about first🙄🙄 And goth fb sites I join to make friends are just littered with pics of models dresses as goth and hyper sexual which just feeds into the narrative. Why is this happening- I’ve always gotten it but the amplification in recent times blows my mind!!!!!
I thankfully have been with someone who looked "Normal" but he never fetishized me and he listens to Death Metal and other similar music genres. he treats me really well thankfully and treats me like a person and not a secret or a freak. He is one of the only positive "Normie" guys I have had interactions with. A lot of guys, mostly guys from my school would make fun of me and also ask me out as a joke. I graduated from there a couple years ago so when I met this guy, ironically at a haunt, I was worried he would be like every other guy I have interacted with but he wasn't. I plan on getting him into more Goth music because I think he would really enjoy it. I would never want him to change his appearance for me, he can be who he is and dress how he is comfortable dressing. I just want to subtly indoctrinate him into this wonderful music subculture that has been like home and family for me for seven years, and I want him to share that same joy.
It's interesting, the effect that music has on the person. He looks 'normal' on the outside but listens to death metal. Metal isn't exactly your average everyday music. Most normies listen to things like whatever's on the radio or SoundCloud rap. He sounds like a really cool guy. That sounds like you both lucked out meeting each other 🖤
@@angelabenedict With me and the different subcultures I didn't grow up in a really diverse area and like I didn't experience any of that, I just realized recently that my friend was really into Lolita Fashion in high school but that's the closest I got, so I just find them interesting really.
If your man never, ever thinks of you "in that way", not even just a little bit, it's because he doesn't find you sexually attractive at all. He might be attracted to your beautiful personality but, as far as PHYSICAL beauty or sex appeals is concerned, in his eyes you ain't got none.
I wanna thank you soooooo much for making this I've had guys tell me that they've always wanted to have sex with a gothic person and just made to feel like a piece of tail rather than a person so you making this video means the world to me you are awesome. thank you for putting it out there that how average men view us is not appropriate and that we didn't do anything to earn this crude distasteful reputation, and that you should never try to change who someone is you should accept and be with them for who they are not who you think you can turn them into. Again thank you from the bottom of my black little heart I love you and your videos. 🖤🖤🖤
I am 49, when I was younger I found the goth girls more interesting and shared more in common with me. One issue was my religious upbringing and my parents would never buy me anything not conservative. I am still longing to finally be free. I’m working on it. I try to be respectful of others and genuinely get to know them.
i've always been attracted to goth girls personally but i've never considered myself normal. i've been a fan of anything macabre as long as i can remember. i've loved goth culture since back before it was a major fad. if i had the money i would be a goth as much as i can
You can tell if a person really likes you as a person. It's a shame that now a days when it comes to dating most folks go for how they look physically. Most people who date someone by their looks or anything about themselves for the wrong reasons, later in life the only friend that they will have is themselves. A very nice video. ❤️
I may be wrong, but I think a lot of Goth Facebook pages contribute to the problem. There way too many fetish and underwear posts on Goth pages, it's no surprise that Goth girls become objects of fantasy (it's also a problem, but less so on Steampunk pages too). However blaming a woman's style of dress for the way a man treats them is tosh, there is never any excuse for not treating people with respect
Growing up alternative back in the day, was FAR from a pleasant experience in society. (In Australia). We were in a relatively small town, 2 hours from the nearest city and we were not accepted at all. We were literally beaten, had food and drinks thrown at us, had people mimic self harm at us, threaten us from cars, chase us, called freaks, satanists, all sorts of derogatory slurs towards us girls. It was hard for us to find work, we were singled out by teachers and normie friends parents didn’t like us one bit. It honestly blows my mind when I see alternative girls and women being fetishised when we were once considered one of the worst things you could be. I’m happy for the new generations growing up in a more accepting society of alternative fashions and interests but I do wonder if they consider what previous generations went through to continue the subcultures before labelling everything ‘Goff’.
I'd love to date a Goth, but I get told I look too much like a "jock" since I'm naturally tan and muscular, so oftentimes I get accused of being poser.
@@angelabenedict Exactly. I mean, I’d love to take a girl to dinner and catch a London After Midnight show but the most common response I get is, “What’s London After Midnight?” I rest my damn case, Angela! 😂
That's not a fair assumption at all. You can't control your pigmentation that you were born with, so I don't see how it makes you a poser. Some people are just ridiculous like that, I guess. I also don't remember hearing anything about how goths can't be fit or muscular. People really need to stop gatekeeping this subculture.
Yup my guard is up high and to be honest, if there were any single goth guys in my scene I would be interested, I've been mostly aproached by geeky guys? (I dont know they all like anime) and metalheads and most of them sexualized me so much its uncomfortable
Yea, I'm sorry. It's kind of a permanent state of affairs. I hope you find yourself a wonderful goth guy who you have tons in common with. ***putting it out into the universe***
Oh, I know. How terrible it must be for you to have men being (shudder) sexually attracted to you. This is even worse than being forced to work in the whorehouses for the Mexican drug cartels. A hundred times worse!
Ive dated mostly goths in my life. I used to be a metal head and a goth for years. I still love the music and lifestyle and the goths I date are fine that I don't look like a goth anymore. For me it's more about the culture than the look, and I always bring them to the parents as they are, my parents love it 😂
I've never dated a goth guy sadly. My partners have all liked my music or gotten around to it. Only one has been weirdly into fetishizing me. Finding a goth guy is tough for me I guess.
I am one of the few goth guys around, goth guys unfortunately are a dying breed. Though I will be a glimmer of hope for one hopeful bat out there. One day :)
The alternative scene has always had a grooming problem where I live and it makes trusting anyone hard, no matter where you go it's fэtishisers and sleazebags after us, even if they're deep into a subculture. It takes a long time to find a diamond in the rough. Most of my partners have been alternative in some way because of the shared world views and interests, of course, but the only one who didn't end up being a scumbag was a metalhead from WAY out of town (i.e a neighbouring country), naturally. The scene is toxic out here unfortunately.
Im a 16 year old girl and I started dressing alternative when I was like 13 years old. Since the beginning of last year I started getting more into the goth subculture through the music (even tho I still love metal etc) and also started dressing more gothy. And my Instagram inbox is now full of „I bet youre kinky“ dms. Except that every person I have ever talked to except my now boyfriend told me that they always wanted a goth gf. It also seems like most of the people interested in me are 3 or more years older than me which is pretty concerning in my opinion .
One major reason I tend to stay within the scene(or branch of into other alt scenes) outside of shared music interests and the like when dating is because I'm a bisexual enby, and I've been far more accepted by people within the scene than without. Don't get me wrong, we still have plenty of bigots and assholes, and there's plenty of horror stories I can share, but I've been far more successful at not just finding others that don't just appreciate these aspects of my identity but also share some of them within the goth scene.
I agree, there are bigots and assholes everywhere but on the whole goth and alternative subcultures tend to be a lot more open-minded and accepting. There are a lot less in the golf scene than there are in the normie world.
I’ve been in and out of outwardly expressing me “gothness” for a long time now (family/living in a small town… the usual stuff that makes you feel shamed.) My husband is not a goth but he is also the only guy who just treats me like a normal person no matter what I’m wearing. He doesn’t fetishize me, I could go from blonde bimbo (and I mean that lovingly) to punked out battle jackets and he would still see me for me. That shit is hard to find. Other than him, people always wanted me as the “goth” but when they got to know me I was too much 🙃People suck, I don’t really know what my point was.
I can relate so much to all of this. I had awful experiences in high school and guys hitting on you thinking they can be degrading to you because of how you dress. I dated guys who would later pick me apart and obnoxiously sing over my music 😡. Besides feeling like I was looked down upon, I felt like I was treated as unintelligent. It took me a long time, many years to take back my identity and not give a crap about who likes me or not, I could care even less about their opinions of my style. My husband is not goth but I always joke he would be pastel goth because of his favorite colors. We have mutual interests and we embrace each others different interests. Since day one, I never felt like I needed to be someone else around him and vice versa. I sailed a sea of assholes to find a good person.
I'm goth myself, and while similar aesthetics, tastes and physical attractiveness are important factors, what I mostly seek in a potential partner, is a similar view of the world as myself, and that is easier to find on a goth girl.
I'm not into dating for now, but I did had guys I knew who aren't goths, that wanted to date me, but apparently I wasn't interested 😅 Great vid Angela 👍🖤
when you said "the guard is up, and it has to be up", that really made me think. I always assumed it was difficult to get to know a goth because I wasn't one myself, when in fact it probably has alot more to do with how other non-goths have treated them and the subculture as a whole. that was really enlightening, thank you!
I'm south american, so not a lot of goths where I live (In fact, I think I'm the only goth person that i've seen in my city). I've dated normies before, but the relationships got boring or uninteresting pretty quickly. I'm currently dating a metalhead and, while we do have different interests, we also have a lot in common. Us dark-inclined people tend to share spaces and events, and are attracted to the same aesthetics. I can't say that I'm only dating him because of that, but I think it plays a big role. I love being able to dress as I like, to talk about the things that I enjoy and go on walks to my local graveyard without feeling judged or fetishized by my boyfriend.
Been w/ my hubby for 26 years, met when I went thru normie phase in my late 20’s while building my career. Even though we are so totally different in many ways, we have enough common ground that it somehow works. He loves the way I look now even if it’s a bit extra. Fortunately he has good taste in music…this would have been a deal-breaker for sure! 😉
@@angelabenedict I drag him to shows, never complains. If for a second I thought he was ever embarrassed to be seen with me would have been over years ago. He does quip sometimes that I’m overdressed no matter where we go, which is a fact!! 😆
I admire the sense of individualism in goth subculture. Losing a sense of individuality is an all too common affliction of a relationship. Goth women do not care about what other people think. It takes bravery to be who you are instead of fitting in. As someone who is goth-curious (trying goth), you have a new subscriber.
@@angelabenedict and like is seeing someone attractive is a synonym to fetishizing, don't get me wrong i respect all goth women and feel sorry for them to be harrased or bullied, apologies for bad grammar
I was always into goths because I was always into goth music. Bauhaus(though they don't like being called goth music), Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy, Sousxie and the Banshees, The Cure, ect. I met my goth gf in college because I walked into the music room (wasn't in that class btw) and kicked out the bassline from My Lucretia My Reflection and instead of getting mad she got on her guitar and joined in. She and I ended up going our own ways as people do when they graduate. I hope she's doing well.
As a gay goth guy, I really feel this. Other gay men are just never interested in who I am or what I like. They're always so obsessed with touching me even though I barely know them. Sometimes they think I'm really freaky in bed or something and they'll ghost me or make fun of me as soon as they find out I'm not into the kinky sh*t they're into. Other times they'll start making weird comments about how "that's not a good look for you" or how I "don't look masculine enough" for them or something like that. Like thanks, I don't do this for you.
I remember first learning about the goth subculture when I was in high school. At that time the kind of boys who all hit on me now calling me a goth girl used to deliberately call me an E girl to antagonize me after I told them that’s not what I was. They don’t care about subcultures at all, they just like that they have a different way to objectify women.
Its the same to me as if I were to work a job that tried to police my personal life which isn't harming anyone. This is who you hired, don't be surprised that this is how I am. I will be appropriate for settings but appropriate doesn't mean changing my interests, my overall aesthetic and I sure as hell won't accept my thoughts being silenced or fetishized for it just because you don't know two cents worth of what you want to say or think about it.
I currently have a normal person boyfriend as a goth girl and so far our relationship has gone great. He doesn't love everything I am into but accepts who I am as a person and for the ways that I am different then him. He is definitely attracted to my goth aesthetic but is also still attracted to me in his old baggy t shirts. It is possible for a goth girl to date a normal person, just like my current boyfriend they basically just need to treat them with respect and as a person which is rare I have been fetishized in the past and it never feels good.
I wish 1 day people would just accept others for who they are & not judge or assume things about another person. Way to go with the reference on Rita Hayworth 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 a lot of people won't know who that is - same with Ginger Rogers👍🏻 impressive Angela
@@angelabenedict You're welcome & true different does keep things interesting to a point. The movies in that time of Hollywood were completely classic I think.
I've always been drawn to spooky girls (I blame cartoons) and as a fellow outcast I just kinda fell in with the few goths in high school. Unfortunately we all grew up and became "normal" so I haven't even seen a goth in the wild in like 10 years and, as much as I'd like to date one because I genuinely think we'd actually click, I doubt I'll ever even find one to talk to. There's a goth club in the nearest major city but it's private, I don't even come close to meeting the dress code, and recruitment is closed 363 days out of the year. I just want to listen to spooky music and have conversations I can actually participate in and maybe I'll meet a girl who doesn't think I'm weird.
I definitely have to teel this story that happened to me years ago on a dating chat 🙈 I used to have a very basic profile picture, just a selfie with simple make up and a choker, and this man wrote me if I could introduce him to DARK SEX! damn I'm still laughing and have no idea of what it is 😹😹
Angela, your soul is pure gold. You have such a beautiful way of speaking from the heart. Thank you for uploading this video and appreciate all the things you said.
I think it's only natural to be attracted to people with whom you've got certain interests in commom, wether it's the music, the fashion, the macabre or what have you. So yeah you've probably got more chance to date a Goth if you are Goth as well. The only criteria I've got when it comes to dating is that you be genuinly you, and not too "normal". The fact that I'm mostly dressing in "classic menswear" (late victorian up to late 40s) I'm not going to fit well with a "normy" gal. I deplore the fact that it's become mainstream for people to be attracted by the "freaks" of yesteryears. Being that I've never fitted with the normy population I should be glad I guess but then again I haven't seen a change in my "datability". Maybe the pendulum don't swing both ways or it's just that I'm still a "freak", in which case, I'm proud of it lol.
it is sad that i can't get a gf because there aren't many people in my area who are obviously goth. even i'm not "obviously" goth. i listen to the music and share a lot of the same interests, but i don't always look goth.
I just want someone to share everything I love with the Music, the fashion, the decor, Love of Halloween, Movies just so much. Someone that isn't going to give me shit for wearing nail polish and platforms with a kilt. So many reasons.
I've always dated inside the scenes (punk, metal, goth, industrial). It was always easier because we're able to to connect. We could share experiences, music, ect.
As one of the few romantic male goths around I tend to seek partnership in fellow goths or at least alternative people. I have been in seven relationships, two or which were with fellow goths. One of them “SA” me for a whole year which getting out of that wasn’t easy as they became goth for me and I never asked them to. They just did and at the time I didn’t see that as a red flag to run. The second was a bit more tragic and it still hits me hard, her name was Mika. She was a romantic goth and we were long distance and unfortunately due to her conditions she passed away and she ended the relationship before that occurred. It still pains me as she said to me most people turned her down because of her terminal illnesses. But I didn’t, I was willing to marry her, have a kid and enjoy what time I had with her before she passed. Well death had other ideas, so it was for the best. The most recent was with an alternative person who didn’t really love me for me so I walked with my dignity before it got deeper. Now back to being a single goth guy at 21, nothing wrong with that. I got to take time to heal; however, I still believe in romance. It will have its time, but for now, remember love yourself. Its the best relationship you will ever have. 🦇✨🫀
I am a goth since the early 80s my partner of 26 years is not goth, rather darkly inclined. He's just not into the music, but he has always supported me in how I look, accompanies me to gigs, festivals and regular goth nights. I in turn support him to engage with his personal interests. I spend a lot of time listening to music old and new which he understands. Most importantly we love and respect one another. We share mutual friends within the community, not everyone gets our relationship, but these tend to be those not in relationships themselves. Ours does not match the goth ideal, but it works for us.
There’s this MTV show from the 90s called Downtown that actually addressed this issue, and they based the goth female character, Serena, on an actual goth girl they interviewed. The main guy is obsessed with her and she ends up testing him by dressing normal in an episode.
People often describe me as a "big tiddy goth gf" when I'm not even goth. I went with it at first when it was still fresh, because it was an extremely meta way of making fun of people who a) know exactly nothing about goth yet call everything remotely black "gothy", and b) think that just because an alternative girl posts sexy pics she will date them. Then, all the gf archetypes started pouring out from everywhere, like "shy sub gf", "dom mommy gf", "cute nerdy gf" and it was all done in the same way. They all perpetuate dangerous stereotypes, the worst of which is how being shy means you want to be dominated. They're composed by weeb incels who live in their imaginary world and haven't made eye contact with grass in months. They genuinely see it as harmless and have zero emotional intelligence. If you're seen as an archetype, get tf away from the person and don't argue or try to "set them straight", because it's bound to be fruitless.
Truly a great video. I'm sorry you went through that with your ex-boyfriend. He should have expected that you want to listen to your music. He wanted to be with you. He should have expected you to be who you are.
this is really important to take about.Im a guy so I don't really have to worry about women fetishes me.Unfortunetly I have friends and I've seen goth women talk about it on the internet about being fetishized. Ik of course though women and female pretenting people unfortunately deal with creeps all the time.(I seriously commend women I really don't know how you do it!).As a goth you get called a freak and that bs all the time but goth women have to deal with harresament both bc of how they look and bc of their body. And of course a you said creeps fetishing goth women.Its really upsetting.Ye all are such bad bitches
I have always admired the extraordinary sense of aesthetics, the extremely refined good taste and the exquisite sensitivity of the goths. I frequented websites like Vampirefreaks and follow people like Adrienne LaVey (and as of today, you), just to be around them. I'm not a goth, but I think there's a "spiritual connection" between all of you and me (or at least between "romantic goths" and me). And yes: I would have loved to have a gothic girlfriend. My interest goes beyond aesthetics, but I never thought that a gothic girl would accept a relationship with someone who - despite wearing black - is not gothic... Thanks for your video, I liked it!
being sought after and fetishized by the same people who used to ridicule you for what they're now fetishizing you for is awful.
It makes me think of Stef from the movie 'Pretty in Pink'.
@@angelabenedict ...Is it bad if I think that James Spader was smoking hot back in those days?
@@OniLordMiki Not at all, He was hot as hell!
THIS
@@angelabenedict I always thought goth girls were sexy.
I find it cruel to ridicule a person based on their appearance.
Course I don't have much experience in dating cause my relationship status be in the toilet.
So I'm single as fuck.
I have gotten to a point where I'm only interested in dating fellow goths or those of the alternative subcultures. I've had experiences where men only view me as something weird and experimental, not because they genuinely have an interest in who I am as a person.
One guy I had been talking to didn't even introduce me to his friends by my name, but as his "big titty goth gf". I felt so disgusted and objectified. The crazy part was we weren't even dating.
I'm a human being. Not something you can put on a leash and punch around to get your rocks off. It's infuriating and I don't want to deal with that experience again.
Ugh - that's horrible. I'm so sorry you had to experience that. Fellow goths are certainly a lot easier and given the objectives of the normies that pursue us, it's not worth the risk.
what?oh my god?thats horrible..I don't blame you at all for only dating other alternative ppl...
Ya see. That's just a D-bag Im a normie but I have a ton of alternative friends.
@@Ed-shot500 im weirdly the opposite, im the alt person with lots of normie friends. The alt kids when i was younger were douchebags and the normal people for some reason treated me better well for the most part. So even i was too much of a freak for the outcasts.
I can hang with anyone who has mutual respect and pretty much any community has its dickheads and ive had shitty experiences with both alt and normal people.
i also hate how its "cool" or trendy to be alt now, like the youth got it so easy its glorified the culture has mostly diluted down the aethestics alone. For a lot of outcasts being yourself was a middle finger to societal norms, nowadays its just a fashion trend for the chronically online to copy.
You're beutiful
If a guy tells you how much he needs a goth girl and then proceeds to describe a fetish bot in black, that's your clue to run
Cue Scooby Doo style run in place and blast off graphic! Zooooooooooooom!
@@angelabenedict A lot of people in your Goth World are fake. The Goths today no longer listen to the post-punk of the 80's and underground 90's.
Utterly unrelated to the subject at hand but-- Not enjoying some of the subgenres under the umbrella of goth music doesn't make one fake, its called preferences. What would be fake is that person listening to those subgenres when they hate it just to keep up appearances. Are you a goth?
@@angelabenedict right! for as long as someone has a fondness for and an interest in the music, they are a goth. goth music is incredibly diverse with its vast sounds and subgenres, so why bother enforcing the idea that the REAL way to be goth is by listening to 80's post-punk and 90's underground bands? of course, i'm not saying that "you don't have to listen to goth music to be goth." i'm saying not every goth will enjoy each and every goth subgenre and underground band out there.
Oh, I know. Estoy de acuerdo contigo. Normie men who find goth girls beautiful and sexy. It's just so unholy and wrong. Que perversidad! If only we could return to the days when normie men found goth girls hideous and disgusting.
I'm dating a normal guy. I chose him because we were friends before, he respects me, and he's never tried to change me. I shaved my head bald (no eyebrows either) I looked like Nosferatu for months and he was still all hugs and kisses. He lets me play my music in the car and takes me to the clubs so I can drink and get home safe. Weird how a lot of guys won't do that but are absolutely rabid to get with a goth.
It always felt like my ex was waiting for me to "be normal". Made fun of my music, hated the look, ect. My current s.o. literally laughs out loud when we joke about what it would look like if I did put in the effort to be a "normal" for even a day.
I don't understand why people don't accept you for who you are as a person
I'm not a goth, but I'm very much into darker, macabre stuff. When I was growing up in school I was kind of a tomboyish, metalhead girl that was really into horror movies. Guys either treated me like I was a complete weirdo, completely invisible, or I was just one of the guys. When I got older I noticed a lot of dudes, particularly on social media, fetishizing "metal chicks" and "goth girls". This completely confused me because those girls were mostly ignored or sometimes bullied from my experience.
We've remained on their radar for decades to be the subject of unwanted attention. From ridicule to sexualization. I don't suppose in a decade they'll want us for cooking tips?
Growing up I was bullied as well-I was known as the weird girl that not only likes to read but likes weird scary stuff and a tomboy. I've always followed the traditional goth path but also doing my own thing. (In other words I'm always off the beaten path not following what everyone else is doing.) Fetishizing a style for the sake of just because is wrong to me-genuinely liking a person for who they are is what matters. Human actions can be so confusing sometimes.
Damian Thomas Knight Wayne I have The Cure on heavy rotation on my playlist; it's hard to pick my favorite Cure song because I like them all. I'll confess It's Friday (I'm in Love) plays quite a bit in my head at random points of the day lol. It's catchy I can't help but sing along. (I'll always like my eighties music because I was born in 77, grew up in the eighties and became an adult in 1996. I like different flavors of music and always will. It's a tiny bit of what comprises of my DNA lol.)
@Daathiel These goth girls don't care. If you're a man and you're physically attracted to her, that makes you a pig. If you're a good-looking goth guy, they just might let you skate but, rest assured. The ice beneath your feet is a lot thinner than you believe.
Tik tok and pornhub ruined it and egirls
Back in the day, goths and the metalheads were the freaks, outcasts, and weirdos. And we took a little bit of pride in that individualism. Especially if you grew up in a small town. We were never really sought after, just bullied, or left alone if we were lucky. It's only until very recently that goths have been fetishized.
But I have only dated one other goth.
I remember those days well!
It is still very much like that in small towns, at least where I live in France. I think this might be a bit of an online phenomenon.
There are a lot of things from my youth I loved that seem to be more accepted now, but when I get involved I get told how wrong I am in my particular taste or way of doing things. I think for Goths it is likely what people consider Goth music or not that strikes the closest to the heart. It is like there are all these 2D cardboard cutouts of my youth as relics of a lost time that are almost worshipped yet to me they are just all cheap replicas, and the geniune article is still ridicule and at times harder than it ever was in the past.
Yeah like now every basic person is saying I want a metal head boyfriend or I want a goth gf like I hate it cause they don’t understand anything about our culture or respect
@@Soup-10 I know. Normie men who are physically attracted to goth girls and metal chicks. It's against God, I tell you!!
I wish I found another goth to even be friends with lmao
That's a good point. Start by finding friends first.
I only one friend irl who is alternative, its best to start online and if you could go to goth clubs and goth events!
same I can't even find any goths in my area and I suck at socializing so....
I met one of my best friends years ago when we both worked together. I was walking past her one day and my phone went off playing my Type O Negative ring tone. We started talking about music and that was that! 🖤
Dating apps are hell as a goth . It’s full of crusty basic dudes looking for Goth girls.
One time on Tinder a basic looking non-Goth guy messaged me about how much he loves Goth girls. I asked why and he said “because they are always smarter and more interesting than non-Goth girls” . I responded with “yea, Goth guys are always smarter and more interesting than non-Goth guys also” .
He unmatched with me . Guess he couldn’t take the comment fired back at him.
LOL!
That comeback was awesome. I had good luck with Metalhead Dating, not sure if it is still around since I've been with the same dude for 9 years. I remember it being free so that was a plus.
I made my profile specifically to not fully show anything explicitly goth, but surely there are subtle hints for someone who has done some research. I went on a date with a guy who came across fine in messages but ended up being a creep (final straw was when he said he was going to drug my drink as an unrelated/ inappropriate joke, should have walked out far sooner though tbh). He asked what music I liked and I said "stuff under the rock umbrella / subgenres" and he just started listing goth bands that I am fairly certain isnt his thing / he isnt with the goth scene here. That was eerie as fuck. With the comments he had made all together ("you seem like a pixie dream girl I'm looking for", sexual comments or just touching me after I politely redirected, asking me about things that my composure would have let him know quite clearly if he could read the room were not okay) and the drugging my drink comment he thought was okay, I immediately let ppl in my scene know to watch out just in case.
@@clockworkoregano Oh god , I'm so sorry that you had to go through that :( The drugging the drink thing isn't funny to say to anyone. That guy sounds completely sick in the brain.
Or maybe he unmatched because you responded with an insult for the praise he obviously meant to give you.
God forbid one respond with, "Oh, thank you, I'm so glad you think so. But, I don't want you to think non-goths are never interesting, either."
No, that would be too courteous. Too non-gothic a response to a filthy, untermench non-goth.
I ended up marrying a metal head. ( I’m a Goth/ Metal hybrid).At first I wasn’t too sure about him( thought he might have a Goth fetish )but when we spent two hours talking about music on our first date, I decided to give him a chance. Over time he learned about the subculture and is now into a bit of the music. Now he’s a Metal/Goth hybrid, but still heavier on the metal side. I’m heavier on the Goth. And we both Like punk as well. Music is not the only common ground either. We like to hike and fish, ghost towns, and traveling.It’s nice to have someone so different from all the idiots who I dated when I was younger.
I've noticed that goths and metalheads seem to come together quite neatly. From what I understand the metal subculture is very similar with the way music is viewed.
Angela Benedict Metal is a music subculture too and Metalheads like a lot of the same things as Goths like horror movies and darker stuff. A lot of the music deals with the same topics Goth does too. I always thought Goth Metal and Punk deal with the shadow side of life and helps people deal with the hard stuff life throws at you. I use music to help me deal with my CPTSD issues. My husband can actually tell by the music I listen to how I’m doing mentally.
My wife and I dated in high school in the 90’s. 20 years later we found each other on Facebook. She was goth in high school and I was just a regular skater boy. During the past 20 years she had so many relationships where the other person was more interested in changing her for who they wanted. Not who she was/is. We both love the same kind of music, horror movies, books, traveling, camping… after years of dumb relationships it’s nice to be in a healthy one.
I have plenty of empathy for Goth women who have been (and continue to be) objectified in any way.
As a Goth male, I have mostly dated normies, and none of those relationships worked out.
I'm currently happily engaged to my partner who also happens to be my first Goth girl.
At the end of the day, love is love, but dating within the subculture has definitely been a more fruitful experience for me.
Dating within the subculture certainly has its ease. We have that common ground of being part of the subculture so music choices are rarely an issue and we share a temperament. I'm sorry your past relationships didn't work out but also not sorry because it led you to your fiance!
@@angelabenedict THANK YOU! 🖤
iv had a simaler exp
Congratulations on your engagement 💜
@@lucialovecraft THANK YOU! 🖤
I’m a darker skinned goth and back in the day the goth guys I knew all wanted pale girls. Weirdly I’m a cholo magnet and oddly frat guys hit on me a lot. It was a fetish thing for them. I dated garage band guys.
How do they not realize that that behavior is repellent? Yet they continue!
Really interesting video to come across, as it's a debate a friend and I had.
I'm in my mid 20s from the UK. I've dated a 'basic' girl, and a goth. The basic girl and I didn't connect, mainly because music is such an integral part of my life. I'm mainly into Post-punk, punk rock, Darkwave, Grunge etc. The normie girl seemed like a lot of fun, but we weren't clicking in all honesty, she'd only really take interest in something if it was played in Stranger Things or some sort of Netflix series, or if she seen it on TH-cam. Also the fact that she didn't support me doing my band, she'd not understand my guitar style and suggest I learn more 'normal' music, unfortunately I broke it off, and her parents were only in their 40s, so knew me as 'Gerard Way Guy' because apparently I look similar to him.
I was at a small show, and seen a girl who was super striking, like a dark goddess. Not many people are that unique and many don't like to be different here, and I could tell this was naturally her, this wasn't an e-girl trend, this was real. I was instantly enamoured, and had to introduce myself. I instantly wanted to know more about this person, because her style was impeccable. I kind of stood next to her, gave a few smiles, and after the show we got chatting outside. Very quick witted, and intelligent. I said I'd walk her to the train station, and she said ''Is that your job as the Sheriff?'' I was a little confused, but on my leather jacket I wore a 'Sheriff Badge'. I found this rather funny. I asked if maybe we could go to a show together sometime, and she gave me her number.
3 years later and I'm happily dating this wonderful girl. I took her to see Clan of Xymox the day she said yes. We share a strong taste in music, we both listen to a variety of genre's, we both have the same movie tastes, television shows, documentaries, and she even loves my clothing and gets me some amazing clothes. I played a show and she came to watch, not a very big audience, but my eyes were glued to her the entire set, and my friends are super cool with her too.
I showed her this video, and she agrees. Turns out, she had and still does have guys try hit on her, and she said they are often (what I imagine Americans would call them ''jocks'') type guys, football guys, social media thrift store guys and the biggest one is Anime guys, and she said just about all of them will say those types of derogatory things and treat her like a fetish. One of them apparently tried to talk about Machine Gun Kelly, Khloe Kardashian etc.. and asked if she's a 'freak' they like the 'fetish' of it, but don't share the same interests as those in the goth subculture.
I think if someone is a grunge, goth or punk type guy, and likes a goth girl, it's probably because they know the goth girl is going to share their interests. But to like a goth girl because it's 'a different flavour' and to just fetishize them is quite disturbing, and not going to win over one of the most intellectual and interesting people.
I just realised I've rambled like crazy, my girlfriend knows I adore her more than anything on this planet, but I also know she hopefully won't read this comment section haha.
Aww, I hope she does read it. She'll get to see how much you adore her. It's very sweet!
that was so sweet 😩❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️💗💗💗💗 I wish you guys all the best
I’m so happy for you two 🫶🏾 how’s it going now?
I'm a 31 year old woman who has had a witchy black thing going on for over a decade, I've been caught in the crosshairs a few times with this very issue you're speaking up about.
Do you know how much music has been injected straight into my heart as soon as I learned goth was a MUSIC subgenre and not a fashion thing?! Ugh, ignorance. My 14 year old self would have been so thrilled to know about goth music - i feel like I've lost a lot of time.
So I just want to say thank you for all this labour you do for your community. You're making a difference by informing normies like me. I'm always excited for every video you release.
Wait you're were into black magick?
sadly people say I fall under the stereotype of "The big tiddy goth girl". I was harassed by a lot by guys in my home town, I even stopped posting on insta and twitter because I kept getting gross DMs from guys. When I would ignore or tell a guy I'm not interested they would then say "well, I wasn't interested anyway" then make fun of me. I even dated a guy that was into the goth girl thing and he wanted me to dress "normal" in public but just around him he said my fashion was okay. He made fun of my music and interests as well. Needless to say I'm thankful for my husband, He isn't goth but he pushes me to be myself and accepts me. (even got him into some of my music recently! lol)
im so sorry u had an exp like this im glad u have fownd sumeone whom cears and loves you now for whom you are
Fake goth guy.
Respect is the most important thing. Trying to change anyone is the opposite.
Agreed.
exactly..
I wish more guys were like that and respecting boundaries and not expecting them to change without changing in return had to block a couple of guys cuz of it
Oh, but it's okay to shame and disgrace normie men for being attracted to goth girls. That isn't trying to change them at all.
As long as they let goths be goths, they can have fetishes. I'm a goth gal and had awesome experiences with normie men with foot fetishes because I have them too. Their foot massages were to die for, lol! @@sigmaK9
I’m exceedingly colorful for a goth, lots of brights with my black wardrobe…and I’m a huge nerd. 🤣 I often attract nerdy mundane looking guys! Certainly I’ve been fetishized (especially in my all-black outfits)…but in my proper relationships, I find my partners have sought me out because they feel more comfortable exploring the subculture with me around, and me giving zero f*cks encourages them to expand their horizons in general. We (as goths) have an acceptance of darkness as a necessary and even beautiful part of life, and I think we tend to be expansive/progressive, giving others space to really be who they are. If that’s the reason someone wants a goth girlfriend, I am ALL in!! 🖤🖤🖤
You explained it so beautifully and eloquently! To be interested in goths for those reasons rather than what's on the outside is all we ask.
that sounded wonderful, actually.
I did date guys of the subculture, but one was a controlling, emotional abuser and the last goth guy I dated was a elitist mamas boy. My boyfriend is a norm, but is more of a geek and plays of alot of video games, he may not be a goth but he likes alot of the music
I'm so sorry you went through that. Your boyfriend sounds like a really cool guy.
Elitist mama's boy? Lmao Interesting. How so?
The last goth girl I dated had anger management issues, she picked fights with other girls, and she owned a gun, bad combo.
Same!
Oooo your bf sounds a lot like mine
Yep! I’m dating a nerd who likes dnd. We bond over our love for video-games. He loves me just the way I am, and got me tickets to see Bauhaus for my birthday ❤️
Value people as they are. Don’t seek someone out to fulfill your romantic or sexual fantasies.
WOW!! THAT's an attentive and thoughtful boyfriend. On the whole, I think goths and gamers/geek culture tend to share a compatible temperment.
My sweetie is a hipster gamer nerd haha
I think us both knowing what it's like to be bullied helps us understand and respect our differences
"Don’t seek someone out to fulfill your romantic or sexual fantasies."
Goth girls ain't got what it takes to fulfill either one. As expected. Goth girls are only good for tense, uneasy alliances at best but, their REAL specialty is their supreme hatred for normie men.
Yes! My best dates were with goths and geeks because we have so many overlapping interests! @@angelabenedict
I've had so many guys who bullied me in high school, hit on me now and it's the grossest feeling ever.
When a guy bullies a girl it's a sign that they like them
My husband isn't as goth as me but he totally gets it, supports me 100 and loves me and how I present myself.
Thank you so much from the bottom of my black heart for saying you gave up your identity as a Goth in a relationship. When I had just moved out of my parents' house and was FINALLY able to start to grow into my gothy self, I started dating a guy who is exactly what you're talking about and I gave it all up. I slowly began going back after I left him but it took me over 10 years to fully grow into and be comfortable with my goth identity. (I'm 43 now...it's not a phase, Mom! LOL) It's comforting to know others have experienced the same.
Angela, the white tunic looks so good on you. I remember getting an ad for a band on Instagram that truly sounded goth, it was really nice so i wanted to hear more. Until i found that their previous single was something called "big t-ttied goth b-tches". I think i was mad about it all day. Like the menace coming from inside the house.
Ugh, that would have irritated the crap out of me.
Took a very long break from the goth community and in this break met my wife. For almost a year I am back in the community and define myself as a Goth- my wife is kind of a 'normie' (she likes spooky stuff but isn't a Goth at all) 🙃 We love each other, respect each other as we are and I don't force my lifestyle on her. It can also work out if respect and freedom are left on both sides.
I know some Goths who would rather stay single than date a normie, often for fear of being laughed at and no longer taken seriously 🤔
The points around the fetishization are again another topic and unfortunately also nothing new 🤷♀️
I feel like a big thing is that they confuse the Goth community with the BDSM community because of the aesthetic for leather and lace, and the aesthetic for the color black, and the aesthetic for pain and pleasure. They don't seem to get that not everyone that dresses in black leather and lace is actually a Goth. It's kind of sad actually that they lump all of it into one person or one type of person because the thing people don't seem to realize is that there are different types of darkness the same way there are different types of normies.
also, a lot of very kinky people dress completely vanilla on a daily basis because they have to keep their lifestyle discreet for work, family, and community reasons.
i've noticed that alot of people get goths mixed up with emos as well
i agree with this but what should but dusnt happen is a talk and in a kind way. as my grandad would always say dont assume anything but do ask
very true, plus a lot of goth communities are also kinky communitjes by default. at least where i live.
Especially when I'm a Goth who is into BDSM, heavy metal, and horror movies, among other film and music genres.
Simple answer: No. Goths do NOT only date other goths. My boyfriend is not part of the goth subculture, but we still love each other and he accepts me as a person. He thinks the goth scene is cool, but he's just not really into going to clubs or parties with a lot of people. There are no written rules within the scene that says that goths are only allowed to date other goths.
That being said, goths do indeed get a bad rep as being kinky freaks; partly because of the mainstream, but also because of people in the scene trying to continuously make fetish synonymous with goth. Yes, this does happen. There are those in the fetish scene, especially in South Florida, who are always trying to make fetish "goth". You also see a lot of goth pages on social media and a lot of people on those pages share fetish photos and art. I recently got into an argument with a guy who shared photos from a fetishisy party where people were being tied up, and he did this on a goth page; I and a few others had to explain to him how what he shared had nothing to do with the subculture and that things like this give outsiders the wrong idea when it comes to the goth scene. Yes, there are some in the goth scene who are into fetish, but then most people who are into fetish are also NOT goth. People in both subcultures need to stop making goth synonymous with fetish. I think if this happened, then that could be a major step toward addressing this issue.
Normies on the outside see that and are basically being told by these people that goth subculture is fetish culture, and it just continuously irks me.
This is true too. There are fetish nights in NYC where the music they play is goth and industrial, and of
course a lot of my goth clubbing friends go, but then there is a "fetish performance" and we are like "I wish I didn't just see that" but they get us to go to fetish nights for the music, because if it were a fetish night that played top 40 I wouldn't go.
wow I discussed the exact same thing in one of Orphea's video (another goth youtuber) in where I live the goth subculture is so intertwined with bdsm that I feel disconnected from it. I end up not even going to the clubs (therefore having 0 goth friends) because I dont feel comfortable in an environment that plays goth music but the rest is all about bdsm. Even the alt/goth clothing stores here, all they sell is vynil and latex and harnesses like oh my goodness... that's so annoying
@@Luisa_san it can be very annoying. There is one particular "alternative" store here in Fort Lauderdale called, get ready for it, Fetish Factory. (Roll my eyes). They sell actual "goth" clothing, but only at the front of the store. The rest of the store is all BDSM stuff. But thankfully here, not all the goth parties are co-oped with BDSM. We have two specialized Fetish parties here that remain separate from the goth scene; so I'm happy about that. But I feel you, I would very annoyed if every goth party was also treated as a Fetish party. I wouldn't go.
We once had a promoter here who tried to co-op with a fetish promoter from Submission for a goth/fetish night and many people in the scene refused to go to it. The scene here DOES NOT want Fetish and Goth to be mixed together.
@Angela Benedict, I think this should be a topic to be discussed on the channel. I know it's a touchy one because many people in the scene are also heavily into fetish, but many in the scene don't want fetish to be associated with goth for many of the same reasons that you have been talking about in regards to our scene being fetishized.
Is your bf a type of alternative though?
I'm Japanese (Scottish and Irish, but look a little more Asian) and dress alternatively. It's definitely weird and super rude when men (or old women) give "suggestions" as to how I should dress or act. Like no Karen I don't want to wear bright country club clothes because that sounds traumatic for me
ahh i get that too. it's frustrating when others try to dictate your own self-expression
I have a friend who dated this guy who talked a big game about being goth and being so into goth clubs and shit. Once their relationship started, he dropped the facade and made her dress down, not to mention he was abusive as fuck, and she actually had to beat the shit out of him once. The fetishization of goth women needs to stop yesterday!
Fuck, the bait and switch. Some people are really relentless. Sounds like a really horrible dude all around. I'm glad she got out of that situation.
I was with a guy who used to beat on me when I was a teenager. I got to a point where I started to fight back instead of just letting him beat me up and when I told a couple of people about him hitting me they basically told me that I was just as bad as he was.....because I started defending myself.
Good on your friend for standing up for herself and getting out of that relationship!
I would never date someone who saw me as a fetish.
Agreed! 🖤🖤🖤
Hell nah
“Big titty” of the “big titty goth” phrase is like a fetish 2 in 1. Ugh. :/
Maybe I get more normal guys because I come from a conservative family so putting on a pastel dress in summer is ok for me. I have had boyfriends who are darkly inclined, like metal or classical, SCA, steampunk, gaming, art, nature, museums, etc. But hey aren’t goth. I have red hair so I notice many guys have a red hair fetish too. Men are strange.
So, if he was a REAL man, he would never be sexually attracted to you?
My girlfriend is the brightest, most sweet pastel-loving cutsie woman you will ever meet. Which I cheer for her for 100%! Just like she celebrates my love of the dark a macabre, with all my black clothes and adoration of horror. Maybe it’s easier with sapphics, but really it is about loving and supporting the Person, and wanting them to be happy.
Well said Angela!👏👏 Excellent advice for someone who wants to date a goth or anyone "alternative" for that matter.
I had a normie guy who was interested in me and thought that he could make me fall in love with him over time no matter what including the fact that I said I wasn't interested in a relationship at the moment. He and his mom were very against me looking goth and dark. Basically the whole "oh you'd be so pretty if you didn't wear all that black/ make up etc." "You need a makeover" treatment. I used to add even more black eye makeup to piss that guy off because he was being disrespectful, controlling and also exhibiting stalker-like behavior on top of it. The last time we spoke he started telling me about how much black clothing I should have in my closet. I told him at the end of the conversation that I'd talk to him later & for him that later never came.
Now I'm dating a wonderful Goth guy who is as into the subculture as I am, is a complete gentleman, shares interests in me and is my best friend.
Good luck to all of you guys out there looking for love. Xoxo
This video literally made me feel like a million dollars if I had a million dollars but that's literally how you just made me feel. I've been subjugated The last 5 years to men literally writing out lists of the type of women they would like to sleep with and as your video had advertised exactly what I just went through was men fantasizing over the etiology of dating goth women. I had just the same as you did lost I'm at four and a half years finally rebuilding my music playlist rebuilding my apartment rebuilding everything in my life I had to fall into my mother's lap who is Arabic and her husband is very Arabic as well and my father who is Roman Catholic. I was very fortunate to have family members that actually support me because we're all very different but nonetheless rebuilding your own identity after being told that you're just a lay or switch a belt is a lot of work 🖤🖤🖤 thanks for this video made me smile!!🖤🖤🖤
I avoided most normie guys for a long time because of the fetishing of the goth girl thing. That said, I arrived a metalhead cowboy. 🤣 He used to think I was weird, and my friends were weird, and my crazy hair was weird. He was always nice though, and we became friends. We met at work, and after a few years found out how much we had in common. He never asked me to change my looks or tastes. I'm still goth, though being a mommy of 2 boy gremlins, I look more like a tired hedge witch than anything. What a guy looks like doesn't matter as much as how he looks at you. What he is into isn't as important as him being into you, not just your look.
Edited for dumb fingers.
A metalhead cowboy! He sounds awesome, I love how naturally things grew.
@@angelabenedict thanks 😊
Yallternatives are the best😂
In the first 2 min of this video you stated exact what I came here for. In the 90’s if you were “alternative” you were picked on. I wasn’t goth in the 90’s. I was the skater, and had plenty of times being picked in and even being chased down by college dudes in Camaro’s physically trying to hurt my friends and I. All of this “thirst” for goth girls is just a marketing scheme on social media. “Who should goth girls date?” Someone that accepts them for who they are inside and out. Someone that adores and loves them for the person they are. Find someone that looks at you like a puppy would. Embrace who each other are as individuals and as a unit. Thank you for your videos. Speaking out on how people were treated in the 90’s. You’re the voice of our generation on YT.
I became a goth RIGHT before the e-girl craze. I was sexualized as a minor and I'm still afraid to wear my chokers and fishnets in public.
I am so sorry you had to deal with that. It’s disgusting and I hope you find the confidence one day to just dress how you are 💜
I kinda think that some of today’s female public personalities have contributed to the desire for Goth women based on their aesthetic (Megan Fox, Dita Von Teese, Billie Eilish, etc)
They definitely catapulted it up into the mainstream, for sure.
This, and the popularity of SoundCloud rap.
Dita von Teese is a pin-up girl
Fox
@@elenatalamantes6281true, they didnt mean she was goth but her style and aesthetic influence definitely can lean gothic or gothy to outsiders. a lot of goth women i know love and admire dita and get compared to her. she’s very associated with the “dark and mysterious” look of elegant side of goth fashion and plus she dated marylin manson.
My ex-husband did much the same thing to me, BUT he was an actual goth/punk who was heavily into the music. I have only had bad experiences with goth/punk men. My current husband doesn't like goth music at all BUT he has never once told me to stop listening to it. He is very supportive.
I've been a Goth since for 24 years: in those 24 years I've spent 10 of them with Goth girlfriends; the other years struggling with grueling normies. In the words of The Misson UK.... NEVER AGAIN. 🚫
You are so right in everything. I have those things happen to me when I was younger.
Guys dating me, but only "when we were alone or on some type of club". Rest of time I was never "right" to show for their friends or family.
Even on clubs some thought it was ok doing whatever they wanted.
When a few mainstream guys came to goth clubs, they still thought their actions were ok. My friends had to help me from them (and I am most of time able take care about myself plus I am 5'8), specially the drunk ones. Some guys were forbidden to come back to the club.
When I visited a friend one guy thought he was the one for me. I was not intrested and it was my first travel to friends in another town after the big car accident. I lost my boyfriend in that accident and almost lost my own life. So I was not intrested at all of someone else, cause I was still crying inside after my boyfriend. He refused and the pubs owner tried to help me, ended up the police had to come and take that guy with them...
About my inboxes on different communities.
Yes, I have had and still have my share of un wished messages, from "less rude" to very bad one including dick pics. And I am soon 54 and still got those. Worst is when I a few time answer back (if it was someone I followed and thought was ok) and they were angry at me. Like I was the one making things wrong!
I wish we could be ourselfes with or without makeup and certain clothes.
We live in modern time and those things shouldn't have to still go on.
Thanks for letting hopefully even more people outside the subculture about those things.
Stay safe Angela 🦇🖤🖤🖤🖤🦇
So many people are fake in general in relationships. Many focus too much on appearance and don't consider an actual human being on the inside. I am not Goth but also have struggled with so many men in general treating me as a sex doll.
Agreed. It makes us so guarded that sometimes when someone's just being nice we're kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. But appearance seems to be the primary if not the only focus nowadays. You're not goth but you certainly look alternative and different from the norm and Goth is the label that gets slapped on anyone nowadays that's not a normie as kind of a catch-all term.
The problem that I face being goth is that a lot of people I meet assumes (and delete if not suitable) that Im automatically into BSDM? The amount of people who have assumed I’m that way inclined and that’s the reason they’ve pursued me to find out I wasn’t and then insult me for apparently “leading them on” like what? Or they assume I’m mean. I always get the comment “wow you’re actually really nice” or “considering how you present you’re actually really down to earth” such back handed weird comments.
Here, here!!!! Would love if you would do follow up on this. I’ve always been punk/goth n the fetishisation is rediculous. On dating apps 90% of introductions I get from people are “are you into kink”- I just delete.. yes I’m into kink but there’s a lot more one should have conversations about first🙄🙄
And goth fb sites I join to make friends are just littered with pics of models dresses as goth and hyper sexual which just feeds into the narrative.
Why is this happening- I’ve always gotten it but the amplification in recent times blows my mind!!!!!
I thankfully have been with someone who looked "Normal" but he never fetishized me and he listens to Death Metal and other similar music genres. he treats me really well thankfully and treats me like a person and not a secret or a freak. He is one of the only positive "Normie" guys I have had interactions with. A lot of guys, mostly guys from my school would make fun of me and also ask me out as a joke. I graduated from there a couple years ago so when I met this guy, ironically at a haunt, I was worried he would be like every other guy I have interacted with but he wasn't. I plan on getting him into more Goth music because I think he would really enjoy it. I would never want him to change his appearance for me, he can be who he is and dress how he is comfortable dressing. I just want to subtly indoctrinate him into this wonderful music subculture that has been like home and family for me for seven years, and I want him to share that same joy.
It's interesting, the effect that music has on the person. He looks 'normal' on the outside but listens to death metal. Metal isn't exactly your average everyday music. Most normies listen to things like whatever's on the radio or SoundCloud rap. He sounds like a really cool guy. That sounds like you both lucked out meeting each other 🖤
That is cool
@@angelabenedict With me and the different subcultures I didn't grow up in a really diverse area and like I didn't experience any of that, I just realized recently that my friend was really into Lolita Fashion in high school but that's the closest I got, so I just find them interesting really.
If your man never, ever thinks of you "in that way", not even just a little bit, it's because he doesn't find you sexually attractive at all. He might be attracted to your beautiful personality but, as far as PHYSICAL beauty or sex appeals is concerned, in his eyes you ain't got none.
I wanna thank you soooooo much for making this I've had guys tell me that they've always wanted to have sex with a gothic person and just made to feel like a piece of tail rather than a person so you making this video means the world to me you are awesome. thank you for putting it out there that how average men view us is not appropriate and that we didn't do anything to earn this crude distasteful reputation, and that you should never try to change who someone is you should accept and be with them for who they are not who you think you can turn them into. Again thank you from the bottom of my black little heart I love you and your videos. 🖤🖤🖤
I am 49, when I was younger I found the goth girls more interesting and shared more in common with me. One issue was my religious upbringing and my parents would never buy me anything not conservative. I am still longing to finally be free. I’m working on it. I try to be respectful of others and genuinely get to know them.
i've always been attracted to goth girls personally but i've never considered myself normal. i've been a fan of anything macabre as long as i can remember. i've loved goth culture since back before it was a major fad. if i had the money i would be a goth as much as i can
…you don’t need money, you just need to listen to music.
You can tell if a person really likes you as a person. It's a shame that now a days when it comes to dating most folks go for how they look physically. Most people who date someone by their looks or anything about themselves for the wrong reasons, later in life the only friend that they will have is themselves. A very nice video. ❤️
I may be wrong, but I think a lot of Goth Facebook pages contribute to the problem. There way too many fetish and underwear posts on Goth pages, it's no surprise that Goth girls become objects of fantasy (it's also a problem, but less so on Steampunk pages too). However blaming a woman's style of dress for the way a man treats them is tosh, there is never any excuse for not treating people with respect
Growing up alternative back in the day, was FAR from a pleasant experience in society. (In Australia). We were in a relatively small town, 2 hours from the nearest city and we were not accepted at all. We were literally beaten, had food and drinks thrown at us, had people mimic self harm at us, threaten us from cars, chase us, called freaks, satanists, all sorts of derogatory slurs towards us girls. It was hard for us to find work, we were singled out by teachers and normie friends parents didn’t like us one bit. It honestly blows my mind when I see alternative girls and women being fetishised when we were once considered one of the worst things you could be. I’m happy for the new generations growing up in a more accepting society of alternative fashions and interests but I do wonder if they consider what previous generations went through to continue the subcultures before labelling everything ‘Goff’.
Always a pleasure and enlightening to hear you share. Thanks
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
I'd love to date a Goth, but I get told I look too much like a "jock" since I'm naturally tan and muscular, so oftentimes I get accused of being poser.
That's not cool. You're being judged just as they don't want to be.
@@angelabenedict Exactly. I mean, I’d love to take a girl to dinner and catch a London After Midnight show but the most common response I get is, “What’s London After Midnight?” I rest my damn case, Angela! 😂
@@theragoooverlord5021 Please, no incel talk. Keep that shit on reddit. Not calling you an incel or anything - but that's the language.
@@theragoooverlord5021 *you're
That's not a fair assumption at all. You can't control your pigmentation that you were born with, so I don't see how it makes you a poser. Some people are just ridiculous like that, I guess. I also don't remember hearing anything about how goths can't be fit or muscular. People really need to stop gatekeeping this subculture.
Yup my guard is up high and to be honest, if there were any single goth guys in my scene I would be interested, I've been mostly aproached by geeky guys? (I dont know they all like anime) and metalheads and most of them sexualized me so much its uncomfortable
Yea, I'm sorry. It's kind of a permanent state of affairs. I hope you find yourself a wonderful goth guy who you have tons in common with. ***putting it out into the universe***
Oh, I know. How terrible it must be for you to have men being (shudder) sexually attracted to you. This is even worse than being forced to work in the whorehouses for the Mexican drug cartels. A hundred times worse!
"Don't expect us to dress to the nine while nines 24/7" lmao the sisters reference made me laugh
Ha! I was hoping someone would pick that up!
Ive dated mostly goths in my life. I used to be a metal head and a goth for years. I still love the music and lifestyle and the goths I date are fine that I don't look like a goth anymore. For me it's more about the culture than the look, and I always bring them to the parents as they are, my parents love it 😂
I've never dated a goth guy sadly. My partners have all liked my music or gotten around to it. Only one has been weirdly into fetishizing me. Finding a goth guy is tough for me I guess.
It’s tough for me also . You’re definitely not alone .
Can I join the "its impossible to find a goth guy to date" club?
I am one of the few goth guys around, goth guys unfortunately are a dying breed. Though I will be a glimmer of hope for one hopeful bat out there. One day :)
Once again Angela that's why i love your videos your wisdoms on the Subculture is amazing you always know what your talking about 👍😁
My girlfriend is a Hippie, we have no intentions of changing each other.
The alternative scene has always had a grooming problem where I live and it makes trusting anyone hard, no matter where you go it's fэtishisers and sleazebags after us, even if they're deep into a subculture. It takes a long time to find a diamond in the rough. Most of my partners have been alternative in some way because of the shared world views and interests, of course, but the only one who didn't end up being a scumbag was a metalhead from WAY out of town (i.e a neighbouring country), naturally. The scene is toxic out here unfortunately.
Im a 16 year old girl and I started dressing alternative when I was like 13 years old. Since the beginning of last year I started getting more into the goth subculture through the music (even tho I still love metal etc) and also started dressing more gothy. And my Instagram inbox is now full of „I bet youre kinky“ dms. Except that every person I have ever talked to except my now boyfriend told me that they always wanted a goth gf. It also seems like most of the people interested in me are 3 or more years older than me which is pretty concerning in my opinion .
One major reason I tend to stay within the scene(or branch of into other alt scenes) outside of shared music interests and the like when dating is because I'm a bisexual enby, and I've been far more accepted by people within the scene than without. Don't get me wrong, we still have plenty of bigots and assholes, and there's plenty of horror stories I can share, but I've been far more successful at not just finding others that don't just appreciate these aspects of my identity but also share some of them within the goth scene.
I agree, there are bigots and assholes everywhere but on the whole goth and alternative subcultures tend to be a lot more open-minded and accepting. There are a lot less in the golf scene than there are in the normie world.
@@angelabenedict
Golf ⛳️
I’ve been in and out of outwardly expressing me “gothness” for a long time now (family/living in a small town… the usual stuff that makes you feel shamed.) My husband is not a goth but he is also the only guy who just treats me like a normal person no matter what I’m wearing. He doesn’t fetishize me, I could go from blonde bimbo (and I mean that lovingly) to punked out battle jackets and he would still see me for me. That shit is hard to find. Other than him, people always wanted me as the “goth” but when they got to know me I was too much 🙃People suck, I don’t really know what my point was.
R.I.P. Andy Fletcher :(
🖤
I can relate so much to all of this. I had awful experiences in high school and guys hitting on you thinking they can be degrading to you because of how you dress. I dated guys who would later pick me apart and obnoxiously sing over my music 😡. Besides feeling like I was looked down upon, I felt like I was treated as unintelligent. It took me a long time, many years to take back my identity and not give a crap about who likes me or not, I could care even less about their opinions of my style.
My husband is not goth but I always joke he would be pastel goth because of his favorite colors. We have mutual interests and we embrace each others different interests. Since day one, I never felt like I needed to be someone else around him and vice versa. I sailed a sea of assholes to find a good person.
I'm goth myself, and while similar aesthetics, tastes and physical attractiveness are important factors, what I mostly seek in a potential partner, is a similar view of the world as myself, and that is easier to find on a goth girl.
Exactly, sometimes it's more about the kind of temperament and worldview that make you compatible.
I'm not into dating for now, but I did had guys I knew who aren't goths, that wanted to date me, but apparently I wasn't interested 😅 Great vid Angela 👍🖤
when you said "the guard is up, and it has to be up", that really made me think. I always assumed it was difficult to get to know a goth because I wasn't one myself, when in fact it probably has alot more to do with how other non-goths have treated them and the subculture as a whole. that was really enlightening, thank you!
as a goth (dating another goth), personally i do it because they get you, and you get them…(or smth like that)
I'm south american, so not a lot of goths where I live (In fact, I think I'm the only goth person that i've seen in my city). I've dated normies before, but the relationships got boring or uninteresting pretty quickly. I'm currently dating a metalhead and, while we do have different interests, we also have a lot in common. Us dark-inclined people tend to share spaces and events, and are attracted to the same aesthetics. I can't say that I'm only dating him because of that, but I think it plays a big role. I love being able to dress as I like, to talk about the things that I enjoy and go on walks to my local graveyard without feeling judged or fetishized by my boyfriend.
Been w/ my hubby for 26 years, met when I went thru normie phase in my late 20’s while building my career. Even though we are so totally different in many ways, we have enough common ground that it somehow works. He loves the way I look now even if it’s a bit extra. Fortunately he has good taste in music…this would have been a deal-breaker for sure! 😉
I love that! Sharing those common interests - especially music has such a profound effect. The differences I'm sure help keep things interesting!🖤
@@angelabenedict I drag him to shows, never complains. If for a second I thought he was ever embarrassed to be seen with me would have been over years ago. He does quip sometimes that I’m overdressed no matter where we go, which is a fact!! 😆
The best match for a Goth is a goth or someone who gravitate around goth culture
I admire the sense of individualism in goth subculture. Losing a sense of individuality is an all too common affliction of a relationship. Goth women do not care about what other people think. It takes bravery to be who you are instead of fitting in. As someone who is goth-curious (trying goth), you have a new subscriber.
That's great to hear! Check out my playlists or spotify by searching my name for some music.
@@angelabenedict i just wanted to ask this question, is it like weird if someone dates a goth girl because she is beautiful without fetishizing her ?
@@angelabenedict and like is seeing someone attractive is a synonym to fetishizing, don't get me wrong i respect all goth women and feel sorry for them to be harrased or bullied, apologies for bad grammar
I was always into goths because I was always into goth music. Bauhaus(though they don't like being called goth music), Joy Division, Sisters of Mercy, Sousxie and the Banshees, The Cure, ect. I met my goth gf in college because I walked into the music room (wasn't in that class btw) and kicked out the bassline from My Lucretia My Reflection and instead of getting mad she got on her guitar and joined in. She and I ended up going our own ways as people do when they graduate. I hope she's doing well.
As a gay goth guy, I really feel this. Other gay men are just never interested in who I am or what I like. They're always so obsessed with touching me even though I barely know them. Sometimes they think I'm really freaky in bed or something and they'll ghost me or make fun of me as soon as they find out I'm not into the kinky sh*t they're into. Other times they'll start making weird comments about how "that's not a good look for you" or how I "don't look masculine enough" for them or something like that. Like thanks, I don't do this for you.
Glad you're back, I know the feeling of ignoring my goth side. It's so comforting to be back into the scene again!
🖤🦇🖤
I remember first learning about the goth subculture when I was in high school. At that time the kind of boys who all hit on me now calling me a goth girl used to deliberately call me an E girl to antagonize me after I told them that’s not what I was. They don’t care about subcultures at all, they just like that they have a different way to objectify women.
I am “Black” and never had trouble dating as a Goth. I am a musician and often naturally click with men who are musicians. Never had challenges.
Its the same to me as if I were to work a job that tried to police my personal life which isn't harming anyone. This is who you hired, don't be surprised that this is how I am. I will be appropriate for settings but appropriate doesn't mean changing my interests, my overall aesthetic and I sure as hell won't accept my thoughts being silenced or fetishized for it just because you don't know two cents worth of what you want to say or think about it.
Thanks for making this!
You've answered a lot of questions that were bugging me.
Stay true 👍🏼
Glad it was helpful!
Very true. I prefer goths due to how much I enjoy their subculture, especially the music.
We're nothing if not passionate!
I currently have a normal person boyfriend as a goth girl and so far our relationship has gone great.
He doesn't love everything I am into but accepts who I am as a person and for the ways that I am different then him.
He is definitely attracted to my goth aesthetic but is also still attracted to me in his old baggy t shirts. It is possible for a goth girl to date a normal person, just like my current boyfriend they basically just need to treat them with respect and as a person which is rare I have been fetishized in the past and it never feels good.
I wish 1 day people would just accept others for who they are & not judge or assume things about another person. Way to go with the reference on Rita Hayworth 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 a lot of people won't know who that is - same with Ginger Rogers👍🏻 impressive Angela
I hope for the same. Differences keep things interesting! Thanks for the thumbs up on Gilda! I love the Golden Age of Hollywood.
@@angelabenedict You're welcome & true different does keep things interesting to a point. The movies in that time of Hollywood were completely classic I think.
I've always been drawn to spooky girls (I blame cartoons) and as a fellow outcast I just kinda fell in with the few goths in high school. Unfortunately we all grew up and became "normal" so I haven't even seen a goth in the wild in like 10 years and, as much as I'd like to date one because I genuinely think we'd actually click, I doubt I'll ever even find one to talk to. There's a goth club in the nearest major city but it's private, I don't even come close to meeting the dress code, and recruitment is closed 363 days out of the year. I just want to listen to spooky music and have conversations I can actually participate in and maybe I'll meet a girl who doesn't think I'm weird.
I definitely have to teel this story that happened to me years ago on a dating chat 🙈 I used to have a very basic profile picture, just a selfie with simple make up and a choker, and this man wrote me if I could introduce him to DARK SEX! damn I'm still laughing and have no idea of what it is 😹😹
LMAO wth that term is new to me hahaha
Angela, your soul is pure gold. You have such a beautiful way of speaking from the heart. Thank you for uploading this video and appreciate all the things you said.
I think it's only natural to be attracted to people with whom you've got certain interests in commom, wether it's the music, the fashion, the macabre or what have you. So yeah you've probably got more chance to date a Goth if you are Goth as well.
The only criteria I've got when it comes to dating is that you be genuinly you, and not too "normal". The fact that I'm mostly dressing in "classic menswear" (late victorian up to late 40s) I'm not going to fit well with a "normy" gal.
I deplore the fact that it's become mainstream for people to be attracted by the "freaks" of yesteryears. Being that I've never fitted with the normy population I should be glad I guess but then again I haven't seen a change in my "datability". Maybe the pendulum don't swing both ways or it's just that I'm still a "freak", in which case, I'm proud of it lol.
it is sad that i can't get a gf because there aren't many people in my area who are obviously goth. even i'm not "obviously" goth. i listen to the music and share a lot of the same interests, but i don't always look goth.
I just want someone to share everything I love with the Music, the fashion, the decor, Love of Halloween, Movies just so much. Someone that isn't going to give me shit for wearing nail polish and platforms with a kilt. So many reasons.
Yeahhh!
I've always dated inside the scenes (punk, metal, goth, industrial). It was always easier because we're able to to connect. We could share experiences, music, ect.
Everything you said li-teh-rah-ly EVERYTHING!
As one of the few romantic male goths around I tend to seek partnership in fellow goths or at least alternative people. I have been in seven relationships, two or which were with fellow goths. One of them “SA” me for a whole year which getting out of that wasn’t easy as they became goth for me and I never asked them to. They just did and at the time I didn’t see that as a red flag to run. The second was a bit more tragic and it still hits me hard, her name was Mika. She was a romantic goth and we were long distance and unfortunately due to her conditions she passed away and she ended the relationship before that occurred. It still pains me as she said to me most people turned her down because of her terminal illnesses. But I didn’t, I was willing to marry her, have a kid and enjoy what time I had with her before she passed. Well death had other ideas, so it was for the best. The most recent was with an alternative person who didn’t really love me for me so I walked with my dignity before it got deeper. Now back to being a single goth guy at 21, nothing wrong with that. I got to take time to heal; however, I still believe in romance. It will have its time, but for now, remember love yourself. Its the best relationship you will ever have. 🦇✨🫀
I’d love to date another Goth, would be nice to date someone who also likes Goth music as I vibe well with someone who shares similar interests to me.
I am a goth since the early 80s my partner of 26 years is not goth, rather darkly inclined. He's just not into the music, but he has always supported me in how I look, accompanies me to gigs, festivals and regular goth nights. I in turn support him to engage with his personal interests. I spend a lot of time listening to music old and new which he understands. Most importantly we love and respect one another. We share mutual friends within the community, not everyone gets our relationship, but these tend to be those not in relationships themselves. Ours does not match the goth ideal, but it works for us.
There’s this MTV show from the 90s called Downtown that actually addressed this issue, and they based the goth female character, Serena, on an actual goth girl they interviewed. The main guy is obsessed with her and she ends up testing him by dressing normal in an episode.
What a great way to summarize so much. Sending my best to every dark princess of the subculture.
People often describe me as a "big tiddy goth gf" when I'm not even goth. I went with it at first when it was still fresh, because it was an extremely meta way of making fun of people who a) know exactly nothing about goth yet call everything remotely black "gothy", and b) think that just because an alternative girl posts sexy pics she will date them. Then, all the gf archetypes started pouring out from everywhere, like "shy sub gf", "dom mommy gf", "cute nerdy gf" and it was all done in the same way.
They all perpetuate dangerous stereotypes, the worst of which is how being shy means you want to be dominated. They're composed by weeb incels who live in their imaginary world and haven't made eye contact with grass in months. They genuinely see it as harmless and have zero emotional intelligence. If you're seen as an archetype, get tf away from the person and don't argue or try to "set them straight", because it's bound to be fruitless.
Truly a great video. I'm sorry you went through that with your ex-boyfriend. He should have expected that you want to listen to your music. He wanted to be with you. He should have expected you to be who you are.
this is really important to take about.Im a guy so I don't really have to worry about women fetishes me.Unfortunetly I have friends and I've seen goth women talk about it on the internet about being fetishized. Ik of course though women and female pretenting people unfortunately deal with creeps all the time.(I seriously commend women I really don't know how you do it!).As a goth you get called a freak and that bs all the time but goth women have to deal with harresament both bc of how they look and bc of their body. And of course a you said creeps fetishing goth women.Its really upsetting.Ye all are such bad bitches
You’re gorgeous, I’m sorry anyone put you down for being yourself. Thanks for sharing your story with us.
by the way
not really related to the video, but you really look gorgeous in white, Angela ❤️
Thank you so much! I've been trying to incorporate more but I'm so clumsy, I'm scared I'll spill things on it.
I have always admired the extraordinary sense of aesthetics, the extremely refined good taste and the exquisite sensitivity of the goths. I frequented websites like Vampirefreaks and follow people like Adrienne LaVey (and as of today, you), just to be around them. I'm not a goth, but I think there's a "spiritual connection" between all of you and me (or at least between "romantic goths" and me). And yes: I would have loved to have a gothic girlfriend. My interest goes beyond aesthetics, but I never thought that a gothic girl would accept a relationship with someone who - despite wearing black - is not gothic... Thanks for your video, I liked it!