Engine Failure IMC over the Mountains
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- FLyWire takes a look at a Succesfull Engine out situation in IMC over the mountains. Very exciting and a lot of good lessons learned to flesh out our engine out plan if it happens to us.
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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I’m a professional pilot. 7,000+ hours in the corporate game.
You’ve done an outstanding job on this video. This will save lives my friend. Thank you for this.
I am a student pilot with 33 hours and I approve this message.
@@SafakSahin I am a Flying Spaghetti Monster with 2 hours of flight time and I approve this message.
I bought a brand new tail dragger bush plane , have no license or fight time , am not making this up... and I approve this message
I have 24 undocumented hours split between a 172, Piper Cub, and Twin Comanche, with absolutely no paperwork to prove that I approve this message.
@@superskullmaster But my shirt is covered now with Bolognese sauce. Don't fly your downwinds over France, please.
I’m from the area and he was in a tough spot. Nothing but trees all around him. So happy that this story ended with living pilot for a change.
I couldn't imagine being in IMC with the terrain that you speak of with total engine failure, he did a great job.
As a controller and CFI who is currently building a training course for controllers, this video is absolutely fantastic for both pilots and controllers. The training course is in draft form, and while I'm not at liberty to share the draft course publicly, I can say that I have already recorded a similar video for controllers that is very similar. (Scott, I'll share the link with you privately). I will attach the link to this video as part of the course, for controllers to watch. Scott -- controllers will hear your advice. Keep it coming please.
Thanks Dean! I appreciate that.
So glad you are still working on that controller advice Dean (thought of you as I watched this). You can see how vital the controller was in this situation.
Great analysis. So much to think about in real time. Learn, learn and be aware.
Roji
one thing that stuck in my mind that applies to a lot of owner/pilots: stop trying to save the PLANE once the fan stops, it belongs to the insurance company!
Agree. This scenario is THE reason to carry hull insurance. When an engine fails or any other emergency occurs that hull policy frees us to focus on our only priority- landing the aircraft with least risk of injury or death to pilot, passengers (and often overlooked... people on the ground).
Did you actually think that one through ... Isn't once the fan stops saving the plane without a scratch the most likely scenario that leaves you without a scratch ... Your realise your actually in the plane right .. The most extreme efforts you make to save the plane will be the best result for you ...
@@markdoan1472 Agreed, however the problem is, people become obsessed with trying to find the perfect landing spot that they try to stretch a glide and stall/spin/die!
It's is,of course, best to be able to live happily ever after with your life AND your plane intact, but killing yourself in an effort to "save the plane" is really not the goal here.
@@billbrisson So I am exactly right and your statement diametrically wrong .. without a whole plane chute your entire efforts are to save the plane without a scratch .. If anyone assumed stall spin was part of that effort they dont understand plain English or the goal .. they cloud their mind with clever sounding anecdotes and make false statements without thinking what the end game is ... If you stay in the plane your singular goal is to save the plane without a scratch .. the fact your butt is in this plane determines this ... Stalling and killing yourself is quite the opposite of this and I truly wish people would perhaps assume everyone is not galacticly stupid and gets this .. As an unlimited contest RC competitor I have taught countless pilots with liscences ..some commercial and about half of them should never be a pilot in command of a real airplane .... their reflexes are too slow to respond to engine outs or control surface failures ... they just dont have that instant half second response time to push and not stall ... This is why I have problems flying with average pilots .. most of them should never have become one .. You cant teach this .. and stall spins will forever continue because most pilots are slow and stupid .. you cant change that
@@markdoan1472 ok... I'll type this slow so you can understand.... if you pass up a field with a dead stick aircraft that may scratch the paint and stall and spin trying to stretch the glide to a better landing sight beyond the capabilities of the plane, you are not going to have a good day.
This may go against you vast experience flying toy airplanes, but when your ass is actually in the plane, you have a little more "skin in the game" as it were.
BTW I am only slightly mocking your RC experience, I myself have an extensive fleet of RC aircraft, from indoor foamies, EDF's, float planes, up to 1/4 scale Gasser warbirds (1/4 scale Yak3, giant scale FW190, P51, Stuka..and everything in between.etc etc (50+)) and as a RC pilot the goal is always to minimize the damage to the plane, but that is mainly because your ass is not in it!
wile I will agree, a deadstick landing that does not hurt the plane is not likely to harm the occupants, a controlled off field landing is better than a stall and spin trying to get to a field or runway out of reach.
that's the only point I am trying to make.
don't die trying to save the plane from damage... they make em' every day
"Never give up. Never surrender" Galaxy Quest.
Never give up on your goal to purchasing a twin engine, these single engine failures on continental engines, especially on Cirrus are so frequent it’s scary as hell.
@@tropicthndr you’re assuming GA pilots flying twins are less likely to crash. I believe the accident rates are similar.
Hi Scott. I really enjoyed this episode. I live in the Seattle area, and western Washington being heavily forested, most roads are impossible to see, even in extreme VFR, unless you are directly above them. For this reason, I also bring along my Garmin truckers GPS, that shows where all these roads are. It is accurate enough, to even show which lane I am in while driving down I-5. Flying a single myself, this could be a life saver, if I ever find myself dead stick over unforgiving terrain.
CD, now that is a good idea! Maybe it needs to be in the iPad Apps!
Neat idea
"Fly the airplane as far through the crash as possible" - R.A. "Bob" Hoover.
I'm not even a pilot, but this resonates with me to the core.
Bob Hover I think “fly into the crash As far as possible”.
Great post and analysis. Thank you.
Bonus points Simon!
Dang I was too late. Mr. Robert A " Bob" Hoover had a lot of experience to help develop that wise axiom. Let's all learn from the wisdom gleamed from his and others experiences before we have to learn the hard way.
That was then ... todays advice were he around would be pull the red T handle , whince as the explosion behind your head tears off the roof panel and the rocket rips that chute skyward ...then enjoy the ride down plane and all under the canopy .. turn your emergency locaters on, both the one in your plane and the one on your handheld Garmen GPS radio ... Step out of the plane after it hits the ground .. go for a nice little hike around the crash site ... not too far ... call your wife on your satellite radio ... perhaps make dinner plans with her that evening as you wait near your plane ... crack a soda .. eat a snack .... Whats that you say ...no red T handle !!! Then stare at your splintered bones protruding from your body as you burn to death ...
@@markdoan1472 oh my god that last part is morbid as fuck.
As a truck driver and trainer I had similar advice for people. If you are going to crash, you drive the truck until you're unconscious or stopped.
Looking at the damage to that aircraft wedged into those trees, it is understandable why the pilot isn’t ready to talk about it. Must have been one hell of a ride and frankly i’m not so sure i could fly again after experiencing something like that. Glad you made it bud!!
"i’m not so sure i could fly again after experiencing something like that" If you are a prepared pilot, you have to concider things like that can happen to you every time you fly. If this preperation is not preventing you from flying, than you would do it again after you experienced it or you don't spend enough time thinking about what could get wrong at the moment.
@@friendlyreptile9931 are you a pilot? Do you fly regularly? Have you experienced a accident such as this?
Unless you can say yes to all 3 questions you have no business telling a survivor of a crash how he should think.
He has earned the right to have his opinion and respect it.
@@johnrabourn5325 You missed the point in my comment so maybe read it again. I wrote that you have to concider that bad things can happen or you should maybe not fly. Airline pilots brief for emergencys before every takeoff so in case they know what to do. I see what you did there with your questions but it failed.
@@friendlyreptile9931 you have chosen to push your opinions and beliefs on to someone who survived a accident. Feel better?
You know he didn't have a plan I place for an emergency?
Everyone who flys knows something back can happen at any time. The experience outways the risk or we wouldn't fly.
You didn't answer my question.
Are you a pilot? Have you had a accident like this fellow did and survived?
@@johnrabourn5325 Whats wrong with you? Is there a crack in your Vinyl? Learn to understand what you read instead of interpreting BS into it :D
I love the accident dissections.....and even more so when the pilot survived with only minor injuries vs multiple fatalities. Very instructive as always Scott and thanks for another well done lesson.
Great analysis Mr Perdue. I think single eng IFR in IMC is very delicate, specially over mountains or rugged terrain, ...too much to loose in case something goes wrong
This is one reason why I am a believer in synthetic vision in today's glass panels. Glide distance ring and seeing through the soup greatly reduce pilot workload. This is one of the best examples I've seen for ATC training. Thank you for this video! I hope every controller, and pilot, watches it!
This is where a certified aircraft seem to do better at absorbing crashes then experimental. There is some design effort into absorbing crashes keeping the cabin intact.
Literally 100's of life-saving nuggets in this one. Thanks Scott!
Scott, tremendously valuable video and your constructive criticism is spot on! Excellent training video. Both pilot and controller did a really good job, but agree with all of your inputs here. Excellent!!
Much appreciated!
Great video Scott. “Fly the airplane as far into the crash as you can “ Keeping pilots, and the memory of the great RA Bob Hoover alive!
Thanks! And Hoover gave great advice!
That big flat reservoir sure looked inviting. I’d rather swim and watch the insurance companies Bonanza sink than fight trees and rugged terrain.
Guess I’ll be saving up for AHARS unit to get full benefit of the synthetic vision Foreflight offers.
Non-pilot here so I'm pretty clueless but why wasn't that reservoir a viable option? Why wasn't it considered? Of course I wasn't there but considering he couldn't see the ground all that well it seems a like a lake would be much easier to spot than a tiny grass strip.
Wisdom dispensed here... thank you Scott.
Who else has noticed that at the ending of Scott's videos there is the shot of a F-15 in a turn but the sound of a prop engine? Who else thinks that was done on purpose for a little humor? Its always a treat when a new video comes out .
Shades of the movie Airplane... good catch
Yeah, humor indeed. I used to fly the F-15, loved it and now I'm flying the F33C and love it. Can't fly fighters forever. The engine sound is from the F33C;) Great catch!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Thank you so much. I think it would be great if you could tell us the location the pilot was in, and if possible the tops and bases of the weather, so we could set these scenarios up in our flight simulator, and see how well we could have done. Maybe that is for another you-tuber, but sounds like a great way to understand these pilots situation. Would probably need aircraft, altitude, heading and speed, then the issue faced (like downed engine).
@@sunnylowe7307 Sunny, you can setup a similar situation and try it out. You don't have to have the specifics of this one.
Great info, I am a surviver of a single engine engine failure, everything you say is correct, especially the What if? comment. Always have a mental rehearsal before you fly of the what ifs.
I heared someone once say .."use you plane as your survival capsule", and this accident is a clear exaple aswell.
I try to have one device on “Nearest Airport” at all times. Always know your glide distance per thousand feet agl…1.5mi per 1000’. Consider winds too.
Someone like yourself should be teaching airtraffic control students on topics such as what you just presented..basics crucial steps with communication
It drives me nuts that to this day the first thing controller say, after giving vectors is descend and maintain “X”. With an engine out altitude should be at the pilots discretion because they are generally the only ones that know what they need to do to make the nearest airport. Keeping as much altitude as possible and shedding it near the airport is better than coming up short every time!
Bob Hoover...The most important flying you will ever do is after you have hit something.
Spot on!
I saw Bob Hoover at Miramar airshow, he did a >20 minute aerobatic flight and most of the time the engine was "off". ;-)
Would you mind further explaining his meaning? Thanks.
@@GodsMan500 If you give up flying after hitting something, disaster will definitely ensue! Try to fly the airplane until it stops! IE "Never Give up!'
“Never give, never surrender”-> Galaxy Quest! Great commentary. Thanks!
I came across your videos and can't get enough, total marathon going on right now. Love your delivery like you were my dad. Very comforting and relaxed so I spend all the time listening rather than worrying about how my instructor would have told me and me thinking it's class and would think about tests etc, rather than just taking it in. I like that. Thank you.
Glad you mentioned pulling the prop back. It makes a huge difference in how much glide you can expect in an engine out situation. I remember the American Bonanza Society safety course where this was demonstrated. With the power pulled back to idle in a simulated engine out, I raised the nose and traded speed for altitude until I hit something close to best glide. Then, I found a survivable place to land and headed for it. It was a rice field. There was an airport a bit further away but getting there was a question mark. I knew I could make that rice field.
The ABS instructor then said, "Now pay attention." He pulled the prop full aft (which I had not done), and the airplane seemed to jump forward and gain quite a bit of speed. Pulling back on the yoke and retrimming to best glide really flattened our descent. Now that airport was clearly reachable, and we carried the simulated engine out all the way to touching down on it.
So don't forget the prop!
And don't ever hand the yoke to the controller. You are PIC, not him. Drop the gear without a road or runway assured????? Not on your life.
This B36TC pilot made a few errors (turning away from lower terrain and possible landing sites before correcting) but he flew the airplane all the way to the ground, and that likely made all the difference.
Robin
Voice to text I need a better job myself. He should’ve said descended pilots discretion. The only thing he did do is maybe build a little confidence with the pilot but most everything else he did I do not agree with the controller
And another thing reading some of these comments. Most people don’t realize that the fatalities are higher in an engine failure in a mole the engine airplane by almost 6 times they are in a engine failure in a single engine airplane. And I can prove that I’ve seen so many ass in air traffic controller that lost an engine including the twin bonanza I mentioned above he was at 6500 feet when he lost it all he had to do was circle down beautiful VF our conditions and he died. Because he got below VMC
Pull the prop back in a case where the engine has pretty much blown up aint gonna make much diff, unless you have a feathering pump and singles don't have that crap..
@@DaveyCrockett001 Agree, if you run out of engine oil, the propeller will automatically move into the low pitch/high RPM setting. You need oil pressure getting to the governor, so the governor pump can work the pitch. No info here on the engine. But heard from the pilot "a lot of smoke here". Sound like catastrophic eng failure.
Just to be clear, this was not a B36TC. It was a turbo normalized A36...Turbo charger added to a non-turbo engine. You are correct...Pulling the prop lever back can absolutely make a huge difference. Only if oil pressure is available, though. Recall of the prop governor uses oil to adjust the prop blades. The part reported oil in his windshield, but we don’t know if the oil supply was exhausted or pressure was available.
By Grabthar's Hammer, I'm gonna practice the engine out checklist in my T210 next time I go up.
Pick me u, I’ll go with ya
Pedal to the metal.
I fly an A36 and while in annual I am planing on a one day course in a simulator just to practice this exact scenario. Very timely video for me. Thx Scott.
Scott, a very good review of this engine out! I have to wonder why any GA pilot would be flying today without using an EFB (e.g. ForeFlight) which would have been displaying in real time a very clear and helpful estimated Glide Range (including effect of terrain) throughout the entire incident. Early on (as you note, right after establishing and trimming for Best Glide speed), this would have indicated if any airfields were within that glide range. With this simple tool, personally I'd be deciding where to go, not leaving that up to ATC, who doesn't know my aircraft, and has fewer tools at hand (other than radar precip) than I do. Thanks for doing these reviews. Wayne (DA40, KSBA)
We, as pilots, always need to work on our SA!
"In a crash, fly the plane until the last piece has stopped moving"
I enjoyed that dissection of this whole engine failure and inevitable crash landing. What a fortunate pilot he is, and good on him for flying it right into the crash and avoiding the stall spin. I learnt some stuff from this thankyou for doing a good job of explaining the important priorities. I’m a PPL holder.
Great analysis Scott. I fly a Cherokee 6. Its a good day if I have 5,000' AGL, IFR or VFR. At that altitude if my engine quits, I am going to be on the ground in 4 minutes or less (1,500' + descent rate) and within 4NM below me. An airport would have to be below me, for me to consider.
I agree Scott....we have to preserve the cabin and sacrifice the rest of the plane if a field doesn't present itself. With fixed gear, I would pull the handbrake hard on before landing if field was short and collision was imminent. Peter
As soon as you said "Today is a Treat" IMC over the mountains I knew the pilot survived and that's why you phrased it that way. I appreciate the video, thanks.
Thanks for producing this video Scott. Sure beats reading another NTSB report!
Thanks Scott a very pertinent review and worth going over and over again, certainly a worst case scenario imc, high and wooded terrain but you have presented well the things that are important and the things that are best left out in the scarry pressure of the all to short moment. Your Flywire program particularly helps us low time pilots think about and plan in our minds ahead of time on how to better conduct ourselves if that moment occurs that will change the fun into surviving to play another day. Please keep it up and many many thanks.
I really appreciate your videos Scott. I can sit here safely on the ground and think about the potential problems that might come up before I fly..This video couples with the video you made where you practiced gliding to an airport. I plan to try that with my Instructor or a safety pilot in the airplane....At a safe altitude of course. Thanks
Awesome, glad to hear that!
Fly the airplane under control all the way into the crash, thats what Chesley Sullenberger did and he saved everyone on board.
I'm not going to be popular in saying this but after flying single engine since 1973 as a Private pilot with Instrument rating for thousands of hours I have finally come to the conclusion that to get in a craft that has one propulsion source that you are betting your life and life of friends and loved ones on and then put yourself and them in the air at all but particularly at night or hard IMC without a second way out is completely ludicrous. At this point in time with all of our technology we should not have to rely on no way out if that one engine fails. What would this pilot have paid for an airframe parachute system during this event? About all he can beg borrow and steal. Well, those can be custom designed for most planes and at a far better bargain than when you need it and don't have it. That's just one example. How about not flying in conditions that place you at such mercy of an engine failure. Pilots are crashing left and right with perfect weather even in the traffic pattern from mis handling engine failures. There has to be a better way to significant;y minimize these situations. There is so much more that can be accomplished to reduce the horrible risk small aviation presents. Unfortunately it would be expensive.
YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!! It’s too bad we continue to try to justify these old propulsion systems. I had four engine failures before I wised up. I was shocked the other day when talking to my instructor, now 75 years old, and still a brilliant aerobatic pilot who won the Ohio aerobatic championship years ago, when he said he had 11 engine failures in his flying career!! Shame on the engineers for doing nothing to improve these engines over the many past decades they had the opportunity … and also shame on the government for blocking any attempt by requiring complete recertification of an aircraft when trying to improve its power plant. We need to call these engines for what they are…so people understand and force a major change to this aviation game we play.
Hi Scott, great video. I lost my engine in a Cessna 152 over the Hoosier National Forest around 4500 feet back in 1989, I was a student at Vincennes University in their flight program. I was in my second year, already earned my private license and was on a solo cross country. I give high praise to the instructors and Vincennes University, they always had us practicing engine out, as well as other emergencies. When my engine quit I didn’t freak out, went through my emergency procedures as I was taught. I found an open field and circled down and was able to successfully land the plane with no injuries. Cause of the engine failure was a valve broke and fell on top of one of the pistons punching a hole in it. The Vincennes University mechanics fixed the engine in the field and my instructor flew it out and back to the university airport which was in Lawrenceville Illinois. I’ll never forget the tail number of that aircraft, N6362M.
Thanks for sharing JT!
Excellent analysis and so good the pilot got thru it. Seemed pretty much a good "Aviate, Navigate, Communicate" - flying all the way to a stop.
IMC, over the mountains in a single engine airplane, NOT ME. I survived 23,000+ hours of flying for a reason. If you value your life, keep SEL flying over the mountains day VFR only, preferable following roads or other forced landings options.
As an air traffic controller and a pilot. The controller didn’t do a very good job at all here. I disagree with you. He should’ve never assigned an altitude he should’ve said altitude at Pilots discretion because he knows a guy cannot maintain an altitude with an engine failure. Also he should never get involved with telling the guy to put the gear down. I worked with a controller and he told the pilot to check wheels down to a twin bonanza and I listened and this new pilot (found that out after crash investigation) he put the gear down and the next thing the pilot said was I can’t control The aircraft. He got below VMC and crashed vertically into the ground and killed him his wife their daughter in the backseat did survive. This is a difference were only about 7% of controllers are pilots. Had the controller been a pilot I think they would probably still be alive. He crashed on one and a half mile final. Also it’s much better to be advised of roads which are specially good. A highway or interstate if available then trying to make it to or back to an airport. Also given him the current winds would’ve been a big plus so that he can turn the plane into the wind and slow down as much is feasible if he was still able to find a landing area that would agree with that direction of the winds might help.I could write a book on how many crashes I have seen in 28 years that I did this job. And another one that crashed here in Orlando he had a runaway trim. Another pilot advise turn the auto pilot off he did and said I still can’t control the airplane. The trim on some is separate breaker. The last resort would’ve been turn the master switch off and shut everything down he would be alive today this was in VFR conditions as well. not that that should matter.
Really good, Capt. Perdue. "Never give up, never surrender." Sounds like a cheesy quote from "Galaxy Quest" (actually it IS a cheesy quote from "Galaxy Quest") but it's also damn good advice.
It is good advice, and I really like that movie.
Risk factors of being a pilot need to be accepted. Theirs a possibility you might be killed. It's part of flying airplane. Not everything is avoidable. Accepted risk!!! Safer then driving.
No your airport and the surroundings. Especially busy crowded heavy business areas. Powerlines oads. You lose an engine and your forced into a decent then you know were to put it down.
My airport KVGT golf course, main roads that run parallel and perpendicular to the airport.
Top10 video on my list for advice. Great way to start 2021, thanks 😊
Awesome! Thank you!
I am starting to think more about lakes as a option. They're flat and I am a good swimmer. Cars are always a unknown variable on roads and they have wires and turns. This is where having a IPAD on the yoke with geo-reference could help. It takes no time to switch to the VFR chart and that should give you better SA than the controller. The new glass panels give you a 'distance ring' too. I haven't used one but I would expect that it is using the winds at your altitude so I wouldn't be expecting to get to the outer ring but it is something.
As far as the gear or anything else as pilot in command don't let a controller lead you down any path. If you declare a emergency you goal is to get that plane on the ground and only you can do it. If what the controller is saying isn't helpful in achieving the goal discard it.
I'm amazed at how detail oriented your videos are but not to the point you can't understand them. As well, what you preach is the common sense of flying remembering to always always "fly the plane"!
Never give up, never surrende!
A great quote from Tim Allen. A line from the sci-fi movie Galaxy Quest.
Fun fact: they to survived a glide to earth crash😉
Love your perspective, but more over I love your passion to educate to teach & to hopefully save lives. 👍
Thanks Geoff, I appreciate your comment very much!
Allot of Pilot’s don’t carry the VFR carts with them, or/and don’t plan for emergencies and alternate airport along their flight path.
Good job on the review
Grab a copy of the Airport Information for Aspen CO. KASE. There's a paragraph that clearly states "UNLESS CEILINGS ARE AT LEAST 2000 FT ABOVE HIGHEST TRRN & VIS IS 15 MILES OR MORE; MOUNTAIN FLYING IS NOT RECOMMENDED".
This is even more important in a single engine recip. I'm happy this turned out well for the pilot but he should have chosen a better day.
I instruct in a Cessna Caravan 208-B Redbird motion simulator. One of my missions is out of Seattle SEA-TAC and flies east on V-2 /298 which is very near where this Bonanza was. I'm going to have my students watch this video. Keep 'em coming FlyWire.
Great video. Controllers have available an “EOVM”- Emergency Obstruction Video Map. This map shows terrain like a Topographic Map and is very useful in vectoring an aircraft in difficulty towards lower terrain. Controller did a good job. Assigning an altitude is wasted time, If IMC I would just advise the pilot of the terrain elevation so they can be prepared for impact at the proper time.
Great video, thank you. Only fly R/C aircraft,sadly, but when things go pear shaped height is gold,just as in the real world of flight.
excellent video Scott - thank you for sharing your perspective...some really great learnings here. As someone else commented, this will no-doubt increase awareness and hopefully save some lives. Great job!
Saying the A36 is more reliable is very relative. Airframe is solid, but engine problems happen as often as other piston GA. Especially turbo
I think you're exactly right about engine issues... kinda tried to make that point... piston engines.
Another great review. Thanks Scott.
Thanks Dan!
Great story, can't even imagine being in that situation. Can't believe how calm the pilot was, but it was like you said he was not thinking of the ending.
"Too many people have not made it trying to make something they didn't have the energy to do" are words to remember in these situations.
Single engine over the top over the mountains is a No No ! Single engine flying you must keep your alternate landing areas in site at all times ! Single engine aircraft can’t be trusted . True Safety Is No Accident !
All I have to say is, lucky, lucky, lucky. 🍀
Great analysis, this is a very good video.
I didn’t here a word he said...I was too busy looking at that Stearman in the background......
Hmmm - 70 armchair pilot downvotes versus a career pilot advising you how to survive an emergency.
I'll be shocked if that controller wasn't a pilot himself. He gave great advice.
One good thing (probably not legal thou) my crusty old CFI did back in 1975 was to give me an actual engine shutdown in the Cherokee 160 I learned in. I experienced the vibration and windmilling prop you don't see in a simulated failure. He had me fly it down to landing with the engine shut down. Of course he was ready to crank it back up if needed. It was confidence inspiring for me. The next lesson I soloed. Love the channel, I was a Safety Officer/Aircraft Accident Investigator in the USAF back in the late 1980's.
Thanks for sharing Darryl, great story.
Ok , "Never giver up never surrender" came from the movie "Galaxy Quest".
Superb video. Congrats to the pilot, the ATC-controller and Scott. Big lessons learned here: no panic, fly the plane, don't be married to an airfield, land in the trees if necessary. Have always felt that trees are not necessarily a deadly threat, given a low-speed 'approach config'. Together with the airplane they will dissipate a lot of energy. In general about this and other aviation channels: seems like a new kind of NTSB is growing: swarm intelligence by the online pilot community.. Keep on this great work, Scott.
Thank you for Your superb Debrief. I’m a PP who will review your post regularly!
A lot can be contributed to shit luck. Thank God for shit luck. It has saved me many times and i always say thank you lord i got it now.
Robert "R.A'" Bob Hoover Fly it as far into a crash as possible under control
Scott, outstanding presentation. Yes, fly the airplane, best glide speed, pull the prop to high pitch, leave the airplane clean, advance the most distance, fly the suggested headings (VFR or IFR), never give up or resign, use the energy, still, fly the damn airplane and onna heading that takes you to the best outcome and keep the wings absolutely level. You are so right about the gear (leave it up), airplanes don't make good garden tillers or agricultural implements landing on soft or unimproved surfaces, they're not the best chain saws either. Energy dissipation prior to hard collisions, that's hard to teach and better learned from prior accident reviews. Still, with the review and thinking thru the scenarios, a very difficult situation to confront and settle. Glad this pilot survived and can share his experiences with others. Again, thanks for leading us thru this agonizing and terrifying scenario, it is so thought provoking.
Thanks Robert!
Never give up never surrender is a quote from the movie Galaxy Quest.
Of course it is... and a homage to Winston Churchill.
So will staying out of IMC in the mountains with a piston engine no matter how much the plane costs…
I'm a glider and power pilot.
In gligers we fly with a great little gadget called an Oudie IGC (size of a mobile phone) full colour moving GPS map with terrain etc.
It has nearest airports, strips and turn points loaded in.
For any dialled in destination it computes your glide angle and arrival height and corrects for wind.
For £800 I take it with me in any aircraft I fly. It's a brilliant piece of pocket sized kit, and could one day save your bacon!
Jules, I've never heard of that device. I need to check it out. I've gotten to fly/ride in a glider twice. Maybe I need to out that on my bucket list.
Pro tip....single engine airplanes can't maintain altitude with an engine failure
As a x hang glider pilot and currently a soaring trike and ls pilot listning to a high time commercial pilot.
What an absolute incredable valuable great educational video for any form of flying. Beautiful
When a visual out of imc
It might be important to speak about point of destination. Great tool to help you find a realistic reach to a suitable LZ.
First thing we used to do at the Top of Climb in 2 engine Boeings was to determine Drift down speed and altitude. Then put diversion fields into the box for SA. IOW, know what your speed is going to be when one STB and know how low you'll need to descend before you can hold altitude if over mountainous terrain. The corollary to this when flying a single is, what is your best glide speed and where is your best out? When the engine quits, trim to best glide speed and turn towards your best option. Only then should you mess around with the fuel selector, the mag switch, the GPS for the nearest airport etc. The RADIO is absolutely dead last. As you said, have a plan and maximize your chances of eating at home that night. Another excellent video.
Great point.
Excellent video lesson. Never give up, Never surrender. From the film Galaxy Quest.
Well, yeah!
Good job by the controller putting something together for this guy.
Great for you to be putting this reminder out for those OH SHIT! moments like this when what you do in the next few seconds determines whether you live on or die
Galaxy Quest used that phrase. Probably not the first.
Not a pilot just enjoy the videos. Been a cop for 22 years. That advice you gave about the boxes and trauma was gold. Compartmentalization is a great coping tool but it has to be dealt with.
Great analysis and advice Scott.
I don't fly anymore but I still love to think about it and read about it. In pre-internet days, I was flying most weeks to the tune of 250-300 hours per year. I was flying out of JAX and going to places in Georgia and Alabama. The direct route to one destination took me over the Okefenokee swamp in south Georgia. (Planes that crash there are NEVER found. They bury themselves 20' -30 feet into the muck and even if the crash location can be determined, there is no recovery of anything.) My plan for the 40 mile E-W crossing of the swamp in the 182 was to be at or above 8000 ASS (above swamp surface) and know exactly how far I was from the solid ground on the east and the west, and what my quickest, not necessarily closest, side was given the wind I was dealing with. I also calculated best glide speed for each quarter of the trip as I burned off fuel. Never had an issue over the Okefenokee, but did have an engine failure over the Florida panhandle flying to Mobile (broken rocker arm boss on the No 1 cylinder exhaust valve) above a broken layer. I told JAX center I needed to land because of my engine problem and he offered Crestview (19 miles ahead) or Defuniak Springs (6-7 miles behind me) I turned around and went through the broken layer and got over the center of the field at 2500'. I cheated in on my downwind distance from the runway and when I finished my turn to base, my left wing was pointing at the runway. Don't do that! I used S-turns and slips to touch down on the last half of the runway and brakes to stop at the very end. I was VERY conscious of airspeed and keeping the ball centered in the S-turns. There was a flat overrun so I would not have been hurt if I had not stopped on the runway, but might have trashed the nose gear and maybe the prop. I finished my trip to Mobile that night on Greyhound and picked up the 182 several weeks after that cylinder had been replaced.
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Great story, thanks for sharing Bill!
This happened literally in my back yard. Its pretty much all tree's out here.
“ Never give up, never surrender!“ Galaxy Quest.
Quote by Mr Bob Hover , thank you for the great videos!
17:05 Controller was "WAGing it." W.A.G. - Wild Ass Guess
With Engine failure you lose the engine driven vacuum pump thus you lose your Horizon & DG. Now your IMC on Needle, Ball & Airspeed.
If only it was needle ball & airspeed... most airplanes have the 'Turn Coordinator' its terrible.
Around 1978, when I was vacationing in Puerto Rico, I wanted to rent from a flight school. I saw from the coast the nice looking rain forest mountains to 4,000 agl. Green, and then blue color higher up. it can be hot on the coast, but you go up the mountains and there are a lot of towns where the temperature all year round will be between 60 and 80 degrees. No ac or heating needed ever. So nice.
They told me about a Bonanza owner that took off one very early morning, was planning to fly over valleys and the rain forest mountains on the right side..
He felt asleep on the climb. Woke up with a lot of noise and been thrown forward to the seat belts, it was still dark. He shut all the switches off, and step out of the wrecked Bonanza into the thick rain forest. Saw some car lights and started walking there. He got to the road and a car gave him a lift. He only had a few bruises from the seat belts and a few scrapes while walking in the forest. Bought another Bonanza later on..
Thanks for sharing that story. A truly amazing one!
@@FlyWirescottperdue And yes, He was a Doctor. In that case the Bonanza saved him. The Doctor Saver this time..
How in the world could someone fall asleep on climb out? I’m not a pilot, I’m a flight test engineer and am normally in the back. It always feels to me as if ever cell in my body is at 100%, colors are bright and I’m more alive than ever when climbing out. At altitude? I sleep so deeply I even dream if not working.
@@kaptainkaos1202 It is called been tired. It happens.
I’m a non-pilot with a long-time keen interest in aviation and aeronautics. I chose electrical engineering as a career. No regrets because it is the physics of flight that interests me most, rather than flying itself.
However, descriptions of incidents like this one consistently drive home the importance of the physics to flying. I suspect that training for general aviation licenses is a bit light on the physics of flight. In contrast, Scott, your discussions are almost always heavy on the physics, even if you don’t advertise that. I’m always impressed with what ex-military test pilots have to say. And I’m always impressed by how fighter pilots approach flying any plane - even and perhaps especially something like a Piper Cub. I see the gears turning in their heads about how each craft is going to perform. They take nothing for granted.
I heard Bob Hoover describe the way he continuously made mental math calculations and predictions of things like fuel burn, glide ratio, and so forth. The gears were always turning in his head.
That’s not to say I think flying is only mathematical. There are many other important factors such as situational awareness and decision making ability.
But wouldn’t it make sense, for example, to show every student pilot what happens to altitude when a plane turns when its engine is off (idling)? Have them watch the altimeter while the instructor handles the plane. Surely that exercise would help a pilot avoid the impossible turn. (Steve Appleton was a leader at Micron Semiconductor who, even though he was a fairly experienced pilot, was killed when his turboprop plane lost power and he tried the impossible turn.). Seems there are lots of possible ways of demonstrating the physics of flight.
Thanks so much for sharing your insights and experience. I very much enjoy your channel.
Thanks Max! My BS was in physics. It informs everything I do.
Great analysis on this one Scott thank you. I don't fly anymore but lessons learned here are metaphoric for how I navigate challenges in my business. Keep up the great work!
Can you explain what you mean when you say "I believe in compartmentalization? " Sounds interesting but I need clarification.
I actually made a video on it. One of the Academics series.
Great dissertation as usual. For the bonus points, "Never give up, never surrender" is from the movie "Galaxy Quest", 1999, staring Tim Allen.
You bet!
I thought it was Winston Churchill.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Yes! Galaxy Quest, very, very underrated movie!
@@saiajin82 Anybody who can quote from "Galaxy Quest" always goes up in my estimation - by Grabthars Hammer.
737 can maintain altitude . Your C172 I a glider
I believe ATC worked as good as he could at this situation with this pilot.
ATC first asked, what is going on, waiting for a plan from the pilot.
Pilot was focused on plane (engine restart, fuses...) He clearly forgot to fly the plane
ATC made a plan for the pilot as quickly and good as he could and kept the pilot flying plane. I think ATC wanted the pilot to focus on airfield, until plane is out of IMC. If IMC is till ground, then airfield is the best option anyway.
If plane got out of clouds, pilot could use his eyes for a better landing option. If the pilot descended closer to ground earlier, he might get into situation, where there is no road visible because of bad visibility.
Without talking to the pilot or ATC we will not get the full picture. Official investigation only can shed some more light into this incident.
I wish the pilot fast recovery both physical and mental. Good job ATC.
Imo don’t fly single engine over mountains especially if IMC is anticipated. Buy a ticket on Delta and relax with a $7 beer.
It's the cascades literally everything is mountains
“If you’re faced with a forced landing, fly the thing as far into the crash as possible.”
- Bob Hoover
Absolutely!
Your review goes well with Dan Gryder Probable Cause. Great video. Happy New Year.
Engine out IMC in mountains... Crazy. Just Crazy. This is a hell of an analysis. Great job. Really great job!
Scott, thanks for this video. Again, you make accurate concise and useful statements. I find your work very enlightening. Please, keep up the good work. I find you and Juan are very good at explaining these incidents very clearly and well. Neithrr of you don't grandstand or go on ego trips. You both simply tell it as it is and you guys try to give good advice of what and what NOT to do. Well done
The best thing I ever learned from being a Boy Scout? BE PREPARED. And being prepared means making an emergency plan BEFORE you're in the the doo-doo. I had a boss who was a former Marine and he said that the Marines taught him to always have a plan. I was once in a situation where I told him I had tried plan A and plan B and neither had worked. What did he tell me? Go to plan C! He also told me that the Marines taught him that a "bad plan was better than no plan at all." The problem with an emergency situation is you have a limited amount of time before the game is over and motor or no motor you still have to fly the plane. If your brain is focused on that task you don't have time to figure out what if scenarios in your head. I liked your video and one thing you said stood out. You said small plane crashes are more common but private pilots aren't trained in emergency procedures. Airline pilots fly simulators all the time and are thrown all kinds of emergency scenarios to keep them on their toes but may never use them because the aircraft they fly are so well maintained. Private pilots on the other hand fly in dangerous conditions like this guy (zero vis, rugged terrain) and yet have an unknown amount of experience in emergency procedures. Once airborne the pilot of any plane becomes the Captain of his ship and if the ship winds up on the rocks the captain bears sole responsibility for whatever happens to his ship. God forbid this guy had had passengers with him because he would also have been responsible for their lives too. And one last thing to note; because professional pilots are constantly given novel emergency problems in a simulator they become accustomed to the random and unexpected nature of emergencies in general. They become more used to the nature of emergency situations were they have to make critical decisions rapidly and under high stress. I really like your idea of analyzing an incident in great detail after it's over to try and learn as much as possible so that you can impart that knowledge to others who might find themselves in a similar situation in the future.
Very well said Squidkid!
Do we know why the engine lost oil pressure yet? Is there any final data on that?
The Final Report is not out for this accident. I seriously doubt the NTSB will spend any more time and effort to investigate. If there is a lawsuit then the participants will, but we may never find out.
@@FlyWirescottperdue That's to bad. I know sometimes we actually get the engine report. I love reading them. Thanks.