C 310R Engine Failure After Takeoff
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- Cessna 310R Engine Failure After Takeoff at John Wayne Airport, Orange County, CA. And no I don't have anything against C-310s!
/ flywire
FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
#Pilot #Fly #Flying #Fly yourself #aviation #FlyingTraining #LearntoFly #adventure #military aviation #aviationhistory
Website: www.flywire.on...
Merch Links: T-Shirts, My Novel: www.flywire.on...
Twitter: @FlyWireO / flywire.online
Facebook: / flywireonline c 310r engine failure after takeoff
![[[OFFICIAL MV]] เอิ้นขวัญให้อ้าย- อ๊ะอาย สกุณาพร | ค่ายเพลงเป็นหนึ่ง](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/83x6L3X3qh0/mqdefault.jpg)
Proficiency. I'm an airline pilot, have multiple jet type ratings and international long haul experience. I lost my job during the pandemic, have not flown anything for 1 year and 9 months and I decided to go to a flight school and do a flight review on a Seneca along with an Instrument proficiency check. Have not flown piston aircrafts for over a decade and boy I tell you I felt like a student pilot, but I did get back my rusted multi-engine piston skills and confidence as an aviator, and that took self aware, humbleness and a bit of effort to get out of my comfort zone and be safe. We pilots need to take upon ourselves to be proficient, do not rely on your previous experience, your skills DO decay!
Dan, Excellent story! Thanks for sharing!
Mine are way decayed, never to fly again, don't care!!🤣
If theres one thing that jumped out at me its the people who rushed towards a burning plane and pulled two fellow humans out, saving their lives. I hope they were recognized for this and given some kind of award. I stand and salute them.
I had a catastrophic engine failure with the port engine in a rental C-310 decades ago, taking off from Monterey (Calif) airport around 2 or 3 in the afternoon. The engine suffered a broken connecting rod and as the shaft rotated, it shoved the broken end right through the side of the crankcase. Made one helluva "BANG" and showered the left inboard engine and wing with black oil. Feathered the prop, declared an emergency, and came back around and landed. Taxied in on one engine & shut down. No biggy, actually, but it sure came as a surprise...!! This was 1976 or 77.
I know, first hand, of three C-310s that have gone down because of fuel starvation.
Starvation, not exhaustion.
As originally designed the 310’s fuel system was super simple and safe. It got more complex over the years but never approached Beech 18 levels of complexity.
Yet, many, many pilots have mismanaged the 310’s fuel system, badly.
I have lost an engine in 340 and 402B. The 340 twice once in flight once on takeoff. The 402 was on takeoff. The 402 barfed
The left engine big time just barely feathered it before it froze. The 340, it was a fuel line issue both times. and I was light.
But I had effective training and experience. The standardization of both companies helped. Memorize the checklist study the manual. But Scott's right. Control the aircraft. Know the machine. Be proficient.
I've had some months off due to my wife's illness and death, and then a car wreck and hospital stay.
(Tboned at a stop. I had the right of way.) I wouldn't dream of crawling into an aircraft, even a simple one, without an instructor at least.
People will get sick of hear reading about stories like this? Too bad- We need more people who've survived these emergencies due to good training and taking their time to INGRAIN in their BRAINS, what to do in these situations-
I'd much rather get a bit bored reading peoples stories of survival, than read obituaries.
@@rickrickard2788 yes!👍
I like your videos MUCH better than that guitar player. No drama , just calm, sober analysis from a lifetime of experience.
At the time I trained for my multi, engine out procedures were drilled, drilled drilled. It was automatic. I don’t know if many continue to run that through their minds regularly. In other words they quit thinking about it. Not good. I still think about those procedures all the time and seldom fly multi engine aircraft. One thing that struck me about the audio calls was that the pilot really seemed panicked, especially at the first call. I get sudden surprise and concern, but to make a call such as that, as it turns out, without going through the normal engine out procedures tells you he either wasn’t proficient or doesn’t handle these things well at all. Glad everyone made it, in spite of the pilots shortcomings…whatever the cause of those actually was.
Great review, Scott has a way with words that don’t offend or judge but at the same time brings forth all the details….
Excellent work!
Good job recapping this, I’m not multi rated and learned quite a bit!!
And have a fairly decent channel yourselves!
@@rickrickard2788
Thanks, we have a long way to go to get anywhere near Scott’s caliber!
Never have heard a clearer "explication" of the Whys and Wherefores that caused Burt Rutan to build that funny-looking Boomerang.
@@richardjensen2769
TRUE!
Good job explaining how this accident happened.
I’m a private pilot and owner of a Cessna 172, I will not fly with other pilots with their airplane, it really seems like they panic and lose control but that’s easy to say when I’m sitting in my living room.
It’s a good idea to be careful about who you fly with. I am for sure. Some private pilots are not exactly ahead of the game, that’s not to say I won’t screw up, but I don’t want to be involved in a crash because of someone else’s dumb mistake.
Excellent review of this terrible accident involving a light twin Cessna. These airplanes can be incredibly unforgiving, especially when flown by marginally experienced pilots lacking recent flight time. In laying out this accident sequence step by step, there is little doubt you may have potentially saved the lives of more than a few ME pilots. Learning from the mistakes of others is the best teacher.
The first thing I thought was, “Why did he make right turns?” The second was the photo of the throttle quadrant. “No feathered prop?” He’s so lucky he made it as far as he did with a windmilling prop!
I know right!? I'm not even a pilot but learned enough about the difference between having the extra power and 1 good engine if 1 quits on a twin to really take the wind out of any sense of added safety and security when flying a twin!!
So many different factors come into play in the various videos I've seen made me realize that 1 more motor doesn't necessarily mean it's a walk in the park with the extra.
Sounds more like a struggle for survival flying on the razors edge of what's required to remain flying, and what the plane is actually capable of with little room for error!
As you watch the radar track, there is another plane taking off on 02L just prior to '297's takeoff roll. When 297 reaches the end of 02R, the two aircraft are pretty much alongside each other as 297 call the mayday. It's possible that, knowing he had traffic to his left, turning right was the only option he had.
@@chaspfrank except that the accident flight departed 20L
@@kenclark9888 Ya got your left and right mixed up there bud. Cleared for take off 20 Right, also shown on the map that way.
Looking at the video which is not quite synchronized to the audio, the first gentle turn to the right is almost certainly because the pilot did not maintain good directional control when the engine failed. He needed more left rudder and gentle left bank to go straight, and even more than that to turn left. Then, once the turn to the right had begun, right was the shorter direction to go and so he made a deliberate right turn to the downwind then more right turns trying to line up with final. The bottom line is that the first turn was not by conscious choice, then right became the path to a shorter flight back to the runway.
The antidote should have been to go straight ahead at first, get the airplane cleaned up (feathered prop, etc), then take some time to get back. Rushing the return was instinctive but bad.
This video is so much more than an accident recap. It’s a tremendous training aid for those seeking a Multi rating, as well as those who already have one and desire/need proficiency training. I’ll be passing it along to my students and recommending it to future ones. Great job!
Scott is the best! He not only talks about the problem, he identifies what needs to be done to prevent this from happening to you. It won’t happen to me because I’m never going to fly a twin, too much to do when something goes wrong with one engine. You are better off in a single engine aircraft and no engine then you are in a twin with one engine. The record shows You are more likely to survive in the single. Of course there are reasons to have twin engine airplane, I’m not wishing to ban them or anything like that.
Newer airplaines have auto feathering of the failed engine.
@@steveperreira5850 Any time a Aircraft goes faster it will hit harder. There is a lot more chance of surviving a piper Cub crash than
a jet.
@@kjelle5350 Interesting, that could be a life saver.
Fantastic video. I am a multi engine rated pilot but never flew ME after my ME checkride. I have always known that I needed updated training if I ever flew ME again. This is a reminder why I felt this way. Great work, Scott.
I am 77 years old, replaced my 14 year old lawn tractor, had to practice various different controls , functions and placement on new tractor. Simple but muscles need practice. Love you’re channel.
This was really good. I owned a 414 for about 10 years and was always anxious about this very thing happening. I understand that in the pilot's situation he probably became so focused on just landing the airplane, he forgot about or didn't think about anything else - I can see why that would happen. I've also been in situations - like you describe - where my leg was literally quivering out of stress in a challenging situation. Your video is an excellent teachable moment in articulating engine out scenarios -- I can imagine if you do nothing else in that situ, that you should feather the dead prop, but hey, been there done that, it's not very easy in the heat of the moment. Excellent video.
I've had the 'shakey leg', too.
The key to survival here seems to be the pilot turning into the dead engine and nor actually completing the "Engine Fail Checklist". My red light was the fact that the a/c flew 6.3 hours in 7 years. If the pilot was the one who flew that low amount of time, then that borders on minimum proficiency (no muscle memory) and with a passenger aboard, potential criminality. It certainly is worth looking at his Flight Reviews during that 6-year period. As Scott has pointed out in all of his videos, there is no substitute for training, especially in the C-310 with a non-standard fuel system. Great job Scott. Always a pleasure to watch and listen to your breakdown of a/c accidents. Please keep up your great work.
As I seem to recall Cessna 310/320/340 sires aircraft (including the 310R) was that the aux pumps are in the Main tip tanks so the aux tanks have no fuel boost, and are intended for level cruise only. As such, starting the engines with the fuel selectors set to 'Aux' would seem unlikely if not impossible as no fuel boost would be available for priming.
I can't recall ever trying to start or take off in a 310, 320 or 340 with fuel set to 'Aux' but I lost power on both engines turning base to final in a 320 with the fuel selectors set to 'Aux' and only about 5 gals in each tank and instantly realized what happened and was able to restore power in a few seconds.
I recall a fatal 310 accident at SLE where a pilot was on an ILS runway 31 and ran out of AUX fuel a bit above DH and crashed into a house. In the 310 you can run just about an hour on Aux tanks, or just long enough to forget about it and travel 200 to 300 miles and run out near the ground.
A high-time 310 driver recommended I switch to AUX tanks about 10 mins apart, but that complicated things. Once, I forgot to switch one tank back to 'Main' 10 mins after the first, and the right engine out of fuel on downwind.
Very nice video! C-310R: for take off and landings: fuel selectors both on mains, and auxiliary fuel pumps on low. Note: auxiliary pumps are located inside the main pumps and only feed from the respective main tank. The wing tanks (aux tanks) are gravity fed to the engine pump and not for take off and landing.
I can certainly relate to your saying how you understood that moment of fear that pilot felt. I had that moment whet I went from clear enough to full IMC as a non instrument rated pilot. I said my mantra - Fear is the Mind -Killer, and I focused on flying my plane. Later, when I was back on the ground, an hour and a half later, I dealt with the fear.
I fly a Mooney so maybe not completely relevant, but I have strict protocol when it comes to fuel. Always enough fuel in either tank to make it to cruising altitude, always on, either right or left tank, never select off. While maybe different than others might do it's important to have a regime you always follow and never deviate from to maximize safety. This video is a good reminder of that.
Thank you for sharing. The pilot's memory seemed to play a little bit of a trick on him when he thought he'd feathered the prop but later it was found nothing had been changed on the right engine from the take-off configuration. Understandable he might have been very flustered, but unfortunate result. Glad they survived. Gratitude and kudos to those who pulled them out.
Thanks for a great analysis! I had this happen in my Twin Comanche. Left engine failed due to a broken valve stem and subsequent loss of oil. I didn't even consider turning to the left and declined tower's clearance to enter left downwind. I told them 'unable' and that I was entering a wide, right downwind. I kept turns shallow. They cleared all runways for me. I held off on gear extension until final and didn't use flaps. Secured the left engine on final - no time before that and, frankly, I REALLY didn't want to feather the wrong prop! I was alone in the plane and felt extremely busy in the cockpit; I felt I had no time. It all went by in a flash. I can't imagine making turns into a dead engine at low altitude. I couldn't turn to the right (into the good engine) on taxi and had to make 270 degree turns to the left in order to move to the right while taxiing in after landing. I was very proficient in that plane and did a LOT of engine-out training. Proficiency is so critical in twins! As they say, the problem with flying a twin is that the good engine will just get you to the scene of the accident...
Great story. Thanks for sharing!
Great video! It's so easy to think that you've read and studied enough to know what to do in an emergency, but without that muscle memory, you may not actually do what you've studied when the shock of an emergency comes.
Great point!
That Pipipilot was not only panicking, he was 3 miles behind the airplane. Another lawyer crashing his airplane.
Awesome analysis. Very sobering to think of what training and practice is needed to keep proficiency up.
I just had my biannual and could see the deficiencies that have crept in, even though I’ve had regular training over the last two years.
I’m definitely gonna be taking up an instructor regularly. Even if I think I know it all, which I don’t, because I think we’re always learning.
18:40 - amazing commentary
" we just have a memory that we used to be good..." wow!
40 seconds of the most valuable and poignant commentary I've heard in a long time. This advice is applicable to life in general, but especially to anyone who engages in high risk/low frequency activities.
Thank you for your Insight!
Yes, exactly. If I haven't flown in 5 years, I could probably write down all the steps to take in the event of an engine failure on a piece of paper after thinking about it for a minute (long-term memory). But that's not the same as being able to do it immediately and completely in 5 seconds. In order to do it quickly and correctly, you need recent practice (muscle memory). It's also essential to do a pre-takeoff brief so that your emergency plan will be in short-term memory.
Engine failure during take-off worst case scenario because of shock effect and being time critical. Takes a moment to change thought processes, so really emphasises the need to have and practice these drills by rote; light twins like this make it even more critical to get it right. My experience of an engine failure in a C310R was far more leisurely when cruising at 9,000’ an oil filter mounting bolt washer failed and all the oil spurted out. I had the luxury of rehearsing shut down drill while watching until the oil pressure flickered whereupon I cut the engine and feathered it. Below MTOW but easily maintained height for another 45 minutes. Knowing the drills is vital.
Scott....I Pray You Know How Much We Admire You, Pay Attention To Your Experience And Wisdom ! Bless You and Thank You for Your Dedication to Our Safety !
I understand the controller's reflexive statement that the gear was up on the downwind, and applaud the pilot's statement that he wanted to wait before putting it down. Ultimately though, it's clear the pilot should have left the gear up until the very end or maybe even landed gear up, and controllers would do well to NOT advise pilots of light twins in these situations to put their gear down. Counterintuitive as it might seem to a controller, putting the gear down in this kind of situation can kill people, while landing gear up just makes some scraping noises.
That's true Dean, another for your training data.
I understand your comment, however we can't assume every controller to be aware of the correct procedure for every aircraft (not all controllers are pilots for that matter), that's the pilot's job (which he did correctly regarding the gear at this point). I'd also like to point out that the controller merely informed the pilot that "your gear appears to be up", the controller did not instruct him to lower the gear. Personally I think the most valuable lesson to be drawn from this interaction is that it's the pilot's responsibility to evaluate if a suggestion or instruction from ATC can be safely followed after taking into consideration all circumstances in the cockpit.
The controller did not advise the pilot to put his gear down. He reminded the pilot that his gear was up. Big difference.
Also, not every airplane is the same, some are ancient... might be a good idea for pilots to get a clear idea of how long it takes their airplane to deploy the landing gear. Ten seconds to touchdown is no good if it takes fifteen to deploy.
A couple of takeaways here Scott - Excellent work on the analysis. The 310R is my favorite but I am a bit biased. It is NOT an airplane for once or twice a year flyers. You really need to be proficient. 2 - having VG - (vortex generators) on a 310R should be a requirement for for this very reason. It reduces VMC from 80 down to 71 kts. Would it have made a difference here? Maybe who knows... And 3 - my mind isn't a checklist mind. I personally don't operate any other part of my life with lists... except when I fly. We have to use them even when we don't THINK we need to use them. See you around. Thanks!
Great analysis of the accident! I really liked how you hit on the mantra of the single engine drill. I try to repeat the mantra (with physically touching controls as I work through the drill) close to or just before take off so I am mentally prepared and have good muscle memory.
It is unfortunate that this pilot probably did not remember to repeat the mantra. However, we do know for a fact that he did the absolute minimum things correct which was to pitch the aircraft down, most likely roll into the good engine and not put the gear down when advised by ATC. Just doing the above, he prevented the roll over stall which is the most common type of a light twin crashes with engine out near the ground. Not identifying, verifying and feathering the dead engine is what eventually lead to the loss of speed and altitude. He might have even made it had he just remembered to raise the flaps which is also part of the mantra. I am glad they survived and kept the nose down somewhere near enough to VMC.
BTW, I have flown my 310N with simulated critical engine out (left engine to idle no prop feathering) and turned to the left. It can be done but just as you said it must be done with precision.
Every twin trainee in the U.S. has heard that turns must be into the operating engine. In this case, it sounded as though the pilot was in condition black, breakdown in metal and physical performance. His actions reinforce this presumption. It could be that he got stuck on the issue of which engine was out and therefore fell into a mental breakdown. It’s seems in this situation he would have been better off not committing to any turn before identifying the failed engine, something that is best done in straight ahead flight. It’s not hard to have compassion for the idea of getting back to the airport immediately, but too many people who jump right to that action, miss the steps required to simply stay aloft. Glad no one died.
He probably would not have been nearly as stressed-out, if he had been by himself. But, the fact that he had a passenger who's life literally depended on what he did/didn't do in that situation, probably exponentially raised his stress-level. I KNOW that would be the case, if I had been the pilot!
I'm a twin trainee in the US and I've never been told I can only turn into the operating engine. Even the the multiengine chapter in the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook says you do not have to turn into the operating engine. Of course, there are conditions, such as having enough airspeed and using a moderate bank angle.
I had my multi training in a 310F and learned, after missing a heartbeat, the 310 has major adverse yaw at slow speeds or approach (I was over the rocks and surf at Kalaupapa 50 years ago) and rudder authority is extremely important even with 2 engines running. Not feathering that engine was a major reason in this crash and should have been able to gain and maintain approach speed. The 310 can be a wicked beast if mishandled and a dream if prepared.
Assuming no obstacles, I might suggest flying straight ahead until the airplane is under control and essential items have been completed. This will also give you time to settle down and focus on a measured process to salvage the situation.
Very good advice!
Well, that is exactly what this pilot should have done. Straight ahead, airspeed and altitude. Zero need to turn when departing Rwy 20 @ SNA. Turn low and slow with an engine failure...you're dead.
Like getting all yer ducks in a row and restarting the engine! This pilot was a bit of a dunce.
@@frankhuber9912 Lawyers make bad pilots. I taught a few. uncoordinated cowards. Good for talking and words juggling, liar and exageration accusations, but cant ride a bike at all. Assheads..
@@CFITOMAHAWK bitter much?
Excellent! I was an Air Traffic Controller in the Marine Corps. I witnessed my share of Military and GA accidents during my tour of duty at MCAS Yuma, 1972 - 1975. I was also a passenger onboard the Base Gooney Bird DC3 when it declared a mayday and reentered the pattern to successfully land and discover that the oil cap on the right wing had either come loose or was never secured prior to flight…we took off again and made it to our destination of MCAS El Toro, Calif. a few days later, I caught the return flight. I remember it like it was yesterday…52 years ago…
I was in boot camp in early 75.
Great recap. This doesn't just apply to real life flying. It's also a great training tool for people that use flight simulators for fun.Thanks!
Another wonderful analysis, Scott: thanks very much for what you do!
The radar track indicates that the pilot tried to fly a full pattern, continuing on the downwind beyond abeam the numbers before turning base. If he had turned base well before the numbers, he probably could have made it back to the runway. Even if he had run out of runway upon landing and gone off the end, that likely would have had a more successful result than that which ultimately happened.
PS: haven't read all the comments, so apologies if I'm repeating what others have observed.
From a non pilot, found this video to be very educational and informative! Great job.
The Delta Captain that gave me my Multi check ride, said it's not a speed contest, it's an accuracy contest.
For jets that's certainly true.
#1 aviation channel. Thanks for all your work.
The Cessna 310 is a higher performance twin than the Piper Seminal or the Piper Comanche and I thank you Scott for sharing on what happens in a engine out in a multi engine airplane
Nice video Scott. Your attention to detail, clarity and your experiences really sets a bar to be achieved for aircraft accident videos.
What I didn’t like about the John Wayne noise abatement t/o procedure was not having visibility over the nose of the aircraft due to high AOA! There were always small aircraft flying low along the beach and once in awhile some that did not maintain correct altitude. Never an issue, but always heads up😎Otherwise, beautiful departure 👨✈️
My wife and I own and operate a C310R. Very early on in my training to fly the 310, it was stressed to me, and is also stated in the POH, that in the Pre Starting Engines check list that the fuel selectors be placed to select the Main (tip) tanks. In addition to moving the levers, which are on the aircraft centerline, on the floor, you have to feel for the selector to go into the Detente. The actual valves for the fuel flow are out in the wing, and are connected to the cabin selector switches by cables, hence the need to feel the detente. That might have contributed to the right engine quitting, as you stated. I really enjoy your videos, even if they are usually regarding single engine aircraft. Good learning material. Thanks!
Kick the ball - power up - gear up - flaps up - dead foot dead engine throttle check confirm - feather that engine - bank to working leg - close engine cowl and prioritise speed at all times (particularly when still on a longer than required runway)
Speed baby speed !.
Very close to home as a 310Q owner who’s flown into john Wayne a couple times.
Cheers
I am a cfi, ii, and mei and I've done an awful lot of multi engine training, and you are right on. I took my first ME training in an Aztec, and I've never worked so hard, and always came back with a sore leg. I did the ME training later, in a Baron. I have been very lucky to have had two ME instructors that were outstanding . I ended up later flying twins for several years, and followed the rules and practice. When I went to an Airline I had to work very hard, but I got through. So, I think that most people get their ME rating and never have another lesson. It takes practice on a regular basis. Also, going to a Sim School for a few days of more training can make a huge difference. That was a good ground school that you did was really excellent. It seems to me that the guy who crashed had no idea what he was doing all the way through the emergency. And, the dead engine acts like a great big plate pushing the dead engine creates drag, and lots of it. Good lesson, thanks.
Another great video that hopefully will be viewed by all light twin pilots, especially those with low yearly hours. You mentioned DC-3s. I was a mechanic of D-18's and 3s (47s) back in the mid 70's at Willow Run Ypsilanti, Mi. I would always volunteer to go with the pilots on any test runs after any repairs or alterations we did on the planes. One time we put a zero time refurbed 1830 starboard side and some other stuff and I was the ck ride mechanic for a DC-3 for the first time. There were 3 pilots that went for some unknown reason and one was the chief pilot who sat behind the pilot's seat. I sat behind the co-pilot at the observation window so I could watch the starboard engine. I didn't have any headset and all I could barely hear was the loud speaker to hear the radio conversation. When they were doing the run up and preflight, they were taking about golf. Same thing during roll out and rotation whenever they could get a few words in. Then at 500 feet, they started talking about the oil temp on the starboard engine and a few seconds later the pilot said to shut it down and feather the prop. So I watched that going on. I didn't notice anything much out of the normal. We keep climbing to about 1500 agl and they never stopped talking about golf as they turned slightly into the DEAD engine. The tower kept asking them what they needed and from what I could hear, they said nothing. The tower wanted to foam the runway and the pilot said no. So we came around in right traffic and everything seemed normal to me. Keep in mind the plane had full full except had no cargo. I felt very laid back about the whole thing but was disappointed I was not going to have a nice long flight. Pilot did a perfect landing and during the entire event, even after we got picked up by a ground crew, these guys were still talking about golf.
So from that time on up until now, watching your video, I always thought pilots turned into the dead engine. I did however think that could be tricky, but only being a single engine pilot, it didn't concern me much.
Thank you, Scott..
Only mantra I add is nose to horizon. protect whatever airspeed I have to use the smack to my advantage, however minimal, it may give me a few seconds to regain energy to at least stay airborne. Thanks for the refresher Scott. I have a twin so it is great to get some knowledge transfer from an airline pilot.Hit me up if you want some Aztec time. Great channel my friend.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Seeing the fireball, it's amazing anyone got out! Much respect to the people who ran toward that inferno.
It seems like having an extra engine is an obvious choice, but it appears to need a host of extra skills, study and practice to go from a single to a twin.
A huge, short lived, fireball like that could be a good thing in that it burns off all the fuel at once.
Used to love that braked, rocking power-up at SNA in a 757 from seat 1A. Followed by a seeming rocket launch. Followed by the sudden silent weightlessness gliding quietly over Newport Bleach lol. (another terrific video btw!)
Thanks, I did that trip a few times in the 75... that was a great airplane!
not even 7h on the engines in more than 7 years...... You are asking for engine troubles regardless of your proficiency - and then taking a PAX? Thanks for a great video. I am glad everybody survived and lived to tell
I always learn something watching your videos. Thanks.
watching Stevo videos it always awes me the amount of information that is exchanged just to get to the runway. granted, i do not want anyone flying overhead that is not topnotch, yet there seems to be many opportunities for distraction. i am not a pilot, thank you for your videos.
TH-cam presented this channel to me just now, watched this vid, and subbed. Great stuff! I'm a big proponent of home computer sims, with the right kind of software and accessory setup, for certain proficiency tasks. The key to performing in those situations is to drill that stuff until you've had enough, and drill some more, and a home sim can provide the visuals and much of the physical actions to fully internalize procedures with far more repetition than you could ever achieve with real aircraft, or real simulators for that matter. I had a job where I was seconded as an FO to a flight ops department that operated CRJs, got type rated, and would fly in support part time. So it was only flying a few legs once a month or so. To stay sharp, I got a CRJ200 sim for FSX for my computer and it had enough features in its virtual cockpit, with decent visuals, to be able to do V1 cuts and approaches etc. I could go into recurrent having done, really, hundreds of V1 cuts on my computer at home over the previous months, so when the instructor executed one in the sim, the actions just flowed effortlessly and my mind was free to fly the plane and think ahead. I would've really struggled in recurrent without it.
Excellent story and a perfect example of what a sim can do for you. Thanks for watching and sharing!
I love these videos Scott. The insight they provide and the frank nature of your explanations make it quite clear what the underlying causes are and where the first hole in the cheese was.
Much appreciated
Drill it into me Captain... train to fly & fly as you train. Love the channel. I just found it & will keep watching for training purposes. I am a previous vehicle collision reconstructionist & I love your completeness for critical details, your brevity, and your overall analysis. Great Job.
Glad you enjoy it!
Scott this video was very impressive and a comprehensive review of the accident!!!
Thank God they survived!!! You addressed any conflicts between the Pilots memory of what he did to complete the checklist, and what the evidence shows the pilot actually did do. All your information is very helpful, not only for licensed pilots but for people like myself who's been an aviation geek all my 60 plus years but haven't got a license yet.
Super video Scott!!!
And it was done very constructively and with all due respect to the survivors.
Having that 2nd engine really does not equate to having double the capabilities of having a single and that was a huge eye opener for me!
It really took the wind out of my mental security blanket or sails learning if I'm a passenger on a twin engine plane I have double the safety margin and double the capabilities of a single! Real eye opener!!!
I guess that's why I will stick with my LSA with a chute. 310 these days is above my pay grade. Hey if you want to see a graveyard full of DC3's including the World's oldest come down here to Shell Creek in Punta Gorda just outside the Class D at KPGD. It's like Dallas Moffet
He was freaked out in his first mayday call. And let the situation take over, instead of the pilot taking charge. Less than one hour a year, it may have really been no hours. He is lucky to be alive and should not have even owned the plane if all he did was get it annual inspected which could have accounted for almost all the engine hours. 6-7 annual inspections sure could account for the entire amount.
Scott: I’m an SNA based pilot, CFI, CFII, MEI, recent owner of a T310R at SNA and know the accident airplane and one of its owners well. Something that appears inaccurate in the findings is your note regarding the engine time of 6 hours in a 7 year period. This airplane was owned in a partnership of 3 individuals and was flown far more regularly than that. This does not give any indication as to the recency of experience or currency of the accident pilot as I do not know him or his flying habits. I do know however that one of the partners flew the airplane very regularly. As a T310R owner I can say this pilot was very lucky to be flying light and to have VG’s on that airplane. I believe if he had handled this same situation with any additional weight or without vortex generators he would have VMC rolled much earlier in the accident sequence. The condition of the right fuel selector really has me scratching my head as to whether he switched the right selector following the engine failure, or commenced takeoff in that mix matched condition.
I got the numbers from the logbooks that were included in the Docket. I thought that was unusual, but if the airplane had flown more, the logs were fudged. You make the call.
It said he used 15 flap for T/O . Is that in the POH ? If so --why ? No short/soft field or obstacles , and we aren’t told he raised them --just the gear .
If he flew the pattern that way the extra drag sure didn’t help , and could have made the difference for that last turn and landing .
His panicked voice on the initial radio call indicates to me he was totally unprepared for the situation or totally out of practice.
My advice when doing pre takeoff checks is to say out loud to yourself the drill or procedure you are going to carry out in the event of an engine failure.
In the gliding world, talk through is common practice in the event of a Winch or tow plane failure low down.
Basic stuff but it works
Excellent observation!
Very good vid and points. Yes, we should practice scenarios
I agree, 6hrs in 10 years = No proficiency at all. JG
I discovered your channel just yesterday. This is the third report I've watched and find it absolutely fascinating getting the insight of an experienced pilot. Have subscribed and rang the bell 👍
Welcome aboard!
Fight, flight, or freeze, the struggle is real without constant training. Nice debrief.
Thanks for the excellent content Scott 🎉🇺🇸✨
A lot of light twin accidents occur because the pilot lifts off well below the minimum engine out control speed (v2 usually). VMC air
Chair Flying is a great way to prepare your mind for actual flight.
Great video Mr. Purdue!!
Mr. Perdue,, You had a single engine go around on a DC3? Worst time ever. High drag, low speed. An ignorant FAA inspector on my multi checkout in Miami cut the right engine on me as i was raising the flaps and gear after a single engine approach. He called for a go around. I put power on both engines, At about 50 agl he cut the right engine again and said, no, on single engine now.. Piper Apache 150 hp high time engines. No climb with engine outs even with half tanks.
I went down to ground effect while flaps and gear went up and telling the dummy "Sir, this airplane cannot climb on one with gear down or at hot temperature. He said, "Yes it should. I hold it on ground effect for a few thousand feet telling him, no sir, it wont, While he insisted" it should climb now" keep it like that". I was keeping it over the centerline with the 5 degrees to the good engine at full power, but.. it didnt climb.
Almost at end of runway, he finally saw it and put power again, on the right. Too low at end. My friend in hangar came to see and though i really lost the right for real. FAA inspector apologized. He thought this was a PA23 Aztec. Didnt know much about the many PA23's. Almost killed us. A Burrocrat pretending they know all they need to know. I passed the CPL multi that way. By almost crashing at end of runway.
I can FEEL you there. I would have pulled the left and landed on the remaining runway. There are no single engine go arounds. It would be helpful if you named the inspector. I had a friend who was failed on a check ride due to a controller error, with an FAA guy on board. (protecting a fellow burrocrat) She said, "I want a copy of the tape", and the guy begged her to just let it go, come back tomorrow for your ticket.
Great video
It's a miracle that he didn't kill anybody on the freeway.
It's tough when you're flying 100 hours a year to stay proficient. NOT JUDGING!!! This guy/owner flew 7 hours in 7 years if I heard correctly. As they say anyone can fly (and look good) a multi until something goes wrong. It might makes sense to not fly twins in this situation unless you're prepared for the 50% increased probability of a problem and train incredibly well for it to turn out right. Great report!
I flew a 310 RT for 16 years after my airline rated 30k+ hot dad made it look easy since bought new in 1977 and gave it to me with zero times props and engines. I was always amazed at the problems that I experienced were due to my 100hr per year non-proficiency that were otherwise avoidable. Bad fuel in Mexico, headwinds leading to low fuel in Mexico, unexplained auto pilot-radio-lights failure and of course the inevitable cylinder or case problem leading to low power. I was lucky.
I've always wondered if aTBM series would have been a better choice.
We know the mishap pilot didn't fly this plane very much. We don't know if he was flying other aircraft over that time period...single or twins.
Great lesson for all pilots, thanks Scot.
Good video Scott. I am definitely going to keep in mind that I could remember how good I used to be when my proficiency is degraded. I fly light sport in Ireland which means you won't get to fly for many months over winter. Greetings from the west of Ireland.
I agree with your analysis 100%, but there is one point I don’t recall hearing you mention. This pilot was calling mayday way too early. He should not have worried about communicating until he had the airplane configured for sustained flight. The panic in his voice was clear. This was a pilot that lacked proficiency and possibly skill and did almost everything wrong. He communicated before he aviated and he aviated extremely poorly. The only thing this pilot had going for him was luck and brave people on the ground to get him out of the airplane.
You are exactly right... the first thing he did was declare a Mayday.
What he should’ve done is go STRAIGHT AHEAD instead of turning. Maintain directional control, clean up, accelerate, climb, then level off before attempting any turns.
Being out over water with all that room and climbing slowly is better than drag inducing turns while hanging a few knots above Vmc.
However, since he panicked and rushed it, he literally flew the airplane out of control.
Scott, I see why he may have turned right. There was a A plane squawking VFR taking off from the left runway. When he called Mayday, the other aircraft was close to his left. The traffic pattern for the right runway was a right pattern. Had he turned left without climbing much, what were the chances of a midair? I have had a right engine failure on takeoff but it wasn’t at an airport with parallel runways. The day before flying a twin, I would sit in the cockpit and manually practice the engine out procedures every time. I would read through the POH and emergency checklist. I would do takeoff performance calculations on both the departure airport and the departure from the airport I was flying to. I didn’t get to fly twins much so my prep time was usually three times my flight time or more.
The Traffic pattern is indeed a right one for 20R... doesn't mean that is the best choice. He was an emergency, therefore everyone else needs to get out his way.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I know. That is what should happen. Just from the illustration in the video it looked like he had traffic off his left wing at the time he called mayday. I would have a hard time turning into another airplane hoping the other guy got out of my way. If you were the plane taking off on the right runway and you heard mayday on the radio, what would you do to give him room? First, you wouldn’t know who called the mayday, then you might not know the twin might need to turn towards you. I have called Mayday twice in my career. One was high and 18 miles out. The other was the engine out on takeoff. In both instances the tower had time to stop other people from entering the runway environment.
Excellent video, Scott. Wise words indeed...
These posts are excellent, thank you Scott. A real reminder that keeping on top of your game is life saving. I find if I dont fly in a week there is a downgrading of my skills (not saying that level is high!).
Simply brilliant Scott! Peerless debrief intertwined with must-know procedures. I'm going for my Multi currently and I honestly got more out this than I can articulate. Thank you so much!
Scott....Great review. Thanks for taking my suggestion to cover this accident. Also, I hope you are enjoying INDEFENSIBLE. God bless you ....Tom Banks
Thanks Thomas, I appreciate your suggestion. It is a good topic!
Really good report, Scott!
Great Analyses,,, Dan,,, Good Job,,, Great Video,,,
Thanks. Dan?
Great explanation. Very professional pilot. It shows
Excellent review and analysis Sir.Thank you. Indeed proficiency AND recency are both saviours in piloting airplanes.These two factors have never been as relevant as during these covid restrictive times.
I have in the past flown almost all the C320 series from B-R variants.I currently (but vbarely recently) fly private jets and we fly sparingly and plane is stored inappropriately and so every flight we do seems like a Russian roulette and the owner of the plane is against conservative measures like doing thorough checks and engine tests on the ground. Even if jets are simpler to fly then props they are still aircraft and exposed to the same risks which must be mitigated. Great lesson about what you think you did versus what you actually did due to startle effect and being out of practice with muscle memory repetitions. A plane you have flown for years after a long absence will feel uncomfortably unfamiliar and intimidating, not to mention the ATC and Airport environment especially if a complex busy airport with a fast paced dynamics of communication and swift clearances. When feeling any level of discomfort and if you can not slow down, better turn those magnetos off and open that escape hatch and go save yourself man!
Words to live and die by...not just flying but in today's unstable world: 'Develope a set of proficiency exercises that you can practice when you 'fly' to stay current'...
It's easy to become complecent from bad habits. Sadly I have to say; in many situations like that, some pilots don't bring with them inside the cabin, a safety mindset, which is literally translated in a very friendly book called check list, check list, check list. It's there for a reason. Flight safe folks!
Great video. Thanks
The boost pumps on a C310 are in the tip tanks and push fuel to the engines. The aux tanks do not have any boost pump capability. Fuel from the aux tanks gets sucked from them by the mechanical engine driven pump when selected. There are 2 switch positions for each (L & R) boot pump, low for take off and landing and high for priming and for in-flight failure of the mechanical pump. Not sure where you got the impression that low boost is exclusively for switching tanks, but that is not true. There may be some benefit to low boost when switching from aux back to main, but little value the other way around.
I own, fly, and maintain C310s so I am familiar with their fuel systems. If this pilot took off with the right engine on aux and there was even a small air leak in the plumping that engine could have been sucking air. Likewise, if the fuel level was low the acceleration or lack of coordinated flight when airborne could have unported the aux tank fuel inlet. Mere speculation on my part as I do not know the details beyond what you've said.
Thanks Gary, My source was the POH. I don't have first hand experience with the C-310. But the investigators noted the Fuel Selector for the Right engine on Aux. The Boost pump switch was on low. You're saying the boost pump on low would not have affected the fuel flow from that tank at all... right?
@@FlyWirescottperdue The POH for my C310F says to use high boost for take-off and landing. This was because Cessna equipped the plane with a pressure switch under the cowl which actually ran the pump on low boost unless a loss of sufficient pressure was detected from the mechanical pump. Then this switch would run the boost pump in high mode. Cessna later found out this was a bad idea because if the pressure switch failed the pilot would not have access to high boost if needed in an emergency. They issued service bulletin MEB88-3 (January 1991) to address this. The pressure switch was eliminated thru a wiring change so that high was high unconditionally and low remained unchanged. A placard was then placed in view of the pilot which says the following "AUX PUMP LOW FOR TAKEOFF, LANDING AND VAPOR CLEARING. AUX PUMP HIGH FOR ENGINE DRIVEN FUEL PUMP FAILURE (VERY LOW OR NO FUEL PRESSURE)." There was also an AFM supplement along with this modification, but who knows if the POH you had access to contained this verbiage.
One needs to,know if the fuel boost pump service bulletin was done on that 310. My understanding is that it was never done from the factory. The boost pump is used to clear vapor from the tip tanks. The POH does say to place the boost pump in the low position when going to the aux tanks. That is to ensure the lines has fresh fuel and one can go back to the tip tanks without issue. The boost pump switch with the SB installed is actually 3 position. Center is off, up is high down is low. Low for take off and landing and aux tank use. Off for cruise (except when running on aux tanks). High for engine failure only.
@@garyplewa9277 excellent information. Since this was not an AD it is quite possible there are a number of aircraft out there without this mod, or the critical info it provides.
From the FAA transition to multi engine chapter (applies to twins with less than 6000 lbs gross weight: ... (On approach) "The airspeed
should be no slower than VYSE. The direction of the traffic
pattern, and therefore the turns, is of no consequence as far as
airplane controllability and performance are concerned. It is
perfectly acceptable to make turns toward the failed engine."
First memory item:
the “dead foot” is on the same side as the “dead engine.”
The second memory aid has to do with climb performance.
The phrase “raise the dead” is a reminder that the best climb
performance is obtained with a very shallow bank, about 2°
toward the operating engine. Therefore, the inoperative, or
“dead” engine should be “raised” with a very slight bank.
I'm happy they survived 👍
Thank you for the clear explanations and excellent recommendations for developing the muscle memory for those fast breaking crises.
Muscle memory is Great!
Superb video!
I own and fly a 310. I have never in eight years of flying 310s ever taken off with flaps 15. I can’t imagine why he had his flaps set for takeoff on a runway that long.
I think that happened from the impact, getting out they touched it. Flaps 15 for a rusty pilot makes take off more demanding and dangerous if eng fails too. that
Agree, flaps 15 takeoff does not make sense.