The Normative Way To Enter The Orthodox Church - Baptism
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.พ. 2025
- Fr. James Coles is the pastor of St. Ignatius of Antioch Orthodox Church located in Mesa, Arizona.
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Growing up protestant i never doubted that i loved the Lord but i never had any victory over the evil in my life. Since being baptized in the orthodox church, those chains are broken and i am now able to pursue life in Christ in a way i never could before. I had the same beginnings in both but one worked and the other gave me no hope.
@@admlbthe answer is no. The faithful throughout all ages and nations and people will receive salvation, those that believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and repent of their sins. Surely not everyone was part of the “Orthodox Church.”
@@SpiritDetective-jd7wxThe ones who are saved in the end who were not in the only Church of Christ never knew about the true Faith. They were faithful in the only way they knew how. If they had known of the true Faith, they would have become part of the Church. God is merciful. If they are saved in the end, then they are now part of the Church Triumphant.
It is not like now where people know of Holy Orthodoxy and shun it. Though they are still in ignorance like the others of the past, this time it is willful, not unwillful.
There is no spiritual or even physical unity in the sect of Protestantism (which includes all those individuals who claim to be "just believers with no denomination").
Were you baptized in water? I was told I couldn’t be baptized because I was baptized when I was eight years old in a Baptist church.
I'm Catholic and I am thinking about converting to Orthodox due to the Pope and his stance on blessing same sex civil unions, and was watching Orthodox baptism videos then this one comes out... I feel like God is guiding me to this route.
I'm Roman Catholic and the post Vatican II madness and especially pope Francis' utter insanity has led me to become an Orthodox catechumen, it is SO the right thing to do. (p.s. - if at first the Divine Liturgy seems 'alien' to you, that's natural, but stick with it).
@@ShawnComposer - Kyle is great BUT pope Francis' antics ARE a good reason for Roman Catholics like me to re-think things. Don't knock the 'Francis effect' - Kyle doesn't. I'm now an Orthodox catechumen.
@@adamlbrown orthodox is the one true church that has kept on the straight and narrow... kept the tradition.
We were RC and were baptized in the EOC. I'm grateful 🙏
There are other popes in the Orthodox Church.
"The best way to enter the Church is with humility"
Amen!
These priests are such beautiful and wonderful men. I'm so happy I'm in the church officially. I was just Chrismatied on December 17th. Glory to God.
The Lord saw fit to place me with a couple of Orthodox people who were rather offensive in the beginning of my 7 year journey into Holy Orthodoxy. I realized that particular parish was unhealthy… I was a bit taken back by their behavior - but I just wanted to melt. I was convinced in my heart the Orthodox Church was ‘home’… and I thank God that I chose to not let their actions bring me to a place of humility.
But the Lord did order my steps - and in obedience, I moved from the mid Atlantic to the Deep Southwest - and ultimately ended up in a loving and thriving parish. Although, I had been baptized in a Trinitarian Church - I explained to my priest the concerns I had… To me, I wondered ‘just how connected or disconnected was the pastor who baptized me to the Church - her teachings and traditions. I expressed to him how I would submit to his authority and decision, but explained how I desired the whole enchilada…
Folks snapped pictures of my baptism and all commented that I had the biggest smile on my face each time I came out of the water. The joy of the Lord was truly evident. ‘joy unspeakable and full of glory!’
I was ‘orthodox in my heart’ long before I entered the Church officially. I didn’t want to convert to just convert. I wanted to join a loving parish where I could lay down my life, love God and his people, and serve in a city to help others find their way into all fullness.
What is required of you? Act justly. Love Mercy. Walk humbly before the Lord.
I read somewhere, and I agree, “The Church has long regarded her baptismal pools as her womb”… Lovingly, Cuthbert!
I was just baptized today, Lazarus Saturday! I had been afraid that I *couldn't* be baptized in the Orthodox Church because I had had some water sprinkled on my head as a baby. The priest was on the fence about it but said yes. I don't understand people who say they didn't "have to" be baptized. I didn't "have to" be baptized, but I "got to" be baptized, and I'm so glad.
By The Holy Rite of Chrismation, On Christmas Day, Monday, December 25th, 2023 @10 AM EST, Here In My Hometown of Anderson ( Anderson County), South Carolina, I Converted To Byzantine Rite Eastern Orthodoxy From Latin Rite Roman Catholicism And Became A Member of Good Standing In The Tier One and Only, Holy, Eastern Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic [ Antiochian] Orthodox Church ☦️ ⛪️ And That's Why I Believe That This Is True Ancient and Authentic Christianity. Thank God Almighty For His Acceptance Of Me Entering Into The Tier One and Only, Holy, Eastern Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic [ Antiochian] Orthodox Church ☦️ ⛪️ . Indeed, I'm 💯 % Orthodox And There's No Going Back To Rome. I'm Finally Home. AMEN 🙏 ‼️
26 years ago, when my wife and I joined the Orthodox Church, the decision was not to daptize us again. We were willing to do whatever the Bishop required of us, we wanted in.
When you get baptized in the Orthodox Church, it is never a rebaptism, because outside the Church you cannot really be baptized. But when you are baptized Orthodox, you receive the One Baptism.
@@mariorizkallah5383you are not a Bishop, nor above the Canons of the Ecumenical Councils (Canon 7 of the Second Ecumenical Council in 381, for example).
@@mariorizkallah5383 i believe in water of salvation.. i live in daily sorrow knowing that im not baptized as a daughter of Christ. ive turned to the Catholic Church recently and got the courage to speak with the Father. he sent me to their office where i was told any Church would baptize me, but i would need to wait until next year. i stumbled over my words in disbelief because i do not believe in just any baptism. i also do not believe holding the body of Christ when we receive Him. Because of this, my soul is crushed and i feel hopelessly defeated by the enemy. =*(
@@junglequeen7386Please come to the Orthodox Church. 🤗
@@LadyMaria im not very familiar how they baptize. although i find orthodox extremely beautiful. i wear a ring with your prayer, because it was Mother Natalia that helped open my eyes.
Can’t wait to see this content continue to grow. This channel has excellent quality of videos. Praying the fruits of this content will result in many Orthodox conversions. God bless!
I, too, snuck pictures of the iconography while visiting some monasteries in Meteora this summer. 😊 Now, I don’t feel so bad. Haha! If you haven’t been to Meteora - it is such an incredible place.
I was fully brought into the church this last weekend!!!!! It felt like a wedding
My priest has a plan for me when to make Confession and take Communion and I completely disagree with him but because it is his will I wish to prepare for it out of love, thinking this could possibly be The Lord's Will. It makes me happy knowing how opposite to my decision this is, it looks like its trying to push me to be better, faster. Priest said such? Perhaps it was The Lord who spoke! Glory to God, His Will over my own! Also big love for Father James Coles, such a softspoken and faithful. I love that through the screen I can sense that he is a geniune, loving and caring man! Thank God we have him!
Are you being Chrismated?
@@LadyMaria Nope, just Confession and Communion, I've been baptized when I was little from what I was told by my parents. My priest simply wants me to endure so I can take Communion relatively soon, due to me returning to the faith(cradle orthodox sorta).
@@borislavfilev5742 So you were baptized Orthodox? Okay. Should be Chrismated though, which is normally done when an Orthodox Christian returns to the Faith. But at any rate, welcome back home! 🤗 May God bless you. ☦
This series truly helps us all answer some questions we have, thank you.
Lovely. Our church has an icon of the Wise Thief on one of the deacon's doors in the iconostasis. And, yes, he is carrying his cross. I had not thought about it in the way you mentioned it until now..
Thank you.
We have that icon on a Deacon door too!
@@LadyMaria only in the last few months did i begin to realize that i could talk to him, if i wanted to, even as i stood near his icon for years, as i sang in the choir.
That this Wise Thief is a saint. Truly, a saint.
Not just saved into Paradise, as i of course knew that Jesus had promised him. I knew his name was Dismas.. Saint Dismas..💝
I thought of him as the example of the Wise Thief whom we sing about during on Thursday night in Holy Week, of course.
[ i would have thought of him as 'him', the Wise Thief, instead of 'you', the Wise Thief,]
I am not sure whom he would best be asked to pray for. I don't know what the Church (or tradition) teach about him in that regard . Maybe those we know are in their last moments..
As i type, i realize that one reason he is important, and why the story is included, perhaps, because it could have been left out, i suppose, is that it is a clear message from the Lord that it is never too late to repent while we still can.. even to the last hour.
Though this is clearly not the standard way to be received into the Church, as Father James said.
Can you imagine what it must have been like to hang there and see Jesus die, and to know that HE had told you that you would be with him in Paradise???
In those last minutes of his life, he must have been filled with unimaginable joy.. despite the pain. (I am thinking that at the moment, anyway.)
I have no idea what someone more knowledge in the Church would say here. I do invite their helping me here if necessary.
Well, that turned out to be a longer answer than i had anticipated. ☦📿💝📿☦
@@lindaphillips4646 Wow, what a wonderful reflection! That'll make me think! Yes, it does make sense to ask him to Intercede for those near to death! May God bless you. 🙏 ☦ 🌹
Thank you. I believe that you and i have 'talked' before. God, bless.
the love in your eyes and your whole face, it makes my day lol
25k subs! Incredible. I think we could see the channel getting 100k by the end of the year.
When I was received into the Church from a Protestant background I knew my parents would take huge offense if I was re-baptized (while they are Protestant, my family is full of pious Christians who take the Faith seriously). Seeing as my baptism was in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit my priest agreed that in order to preserve peace in my family (who were already hesitant about me becoming Orthodox) it would be best to be received through Chrismation only.
Were you triple immersed? If not, I'd think about corrective baptism. As baptism must be triple immersion.
@@LadyMariamy parish won’t baptize me because I was baptized at 8 at a Baptist church who bussed kids in from local neighborhoods 🙁
@@NicoleDionne That's so wrong. I'm sorry.
Thank you for this.
If you can bring Fr. John back for more content, do it
Wonderful video. Excellent points
My wife and i are catechumen and we both want baptism. For me, i was baptized protestant, so i honestly don't know if i was baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Protestants have a tendency to just say "in Jesus name" for everything. So i want a corrective baptism. My wife was raised roman catholic, so she was baptized as a baby but really wants to be baptized. I don't think our priest has a problem baptizing us both.
'Why would you not'
Some people are convinced, because it goes around that way, that rebaptizing a 'valid' batpism is heretical so it makes people nervous, sometimes very nervous
Acts 10:44-48 is pretty interesting to me in relation to this topic
It is special case due to Peter's resentment towards Gentiles and served as yet another sign (besides vision) from God for him to treat the Gentiles just the same as the Jews.
Thank you for this talk. I've been interested in Orthodoxy for the last few years and not long ago I started attending an antiochian church (in Brazil) with my family. I asked the priest if my sons could be baptized there and if they recognize our (adults) roman catholic baptism, if we can be baptized again, and also if we could get married there. I assumed it would be a long process and we would be instructed to learn more, read books and continue praying and speaking to the priest but he said our baptism will most likely be accepted and we can also be chrismated, married and our sons baptized. Doesn't that skip the whole catechumen phase or is this normal in some churches? It is a lovely and small church. Thanks!
It is dealt with on an individual case basis and priest you are dealing with will assess the situation that is unique for every case. Some people are required to attend classes others are not, it all depends on how funny ideas they have about the faith and some people are already close enough to the Orthodox faith thus no classes are needed. Welcome.!
@@johnnyd2383 Thank you!
The way it was explained to me was that since I was baptized in the roman catholic church, I would be chrismated but not baptized when I eventually convert since roman catholics are also baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and we also believe in one baptism.
You were told that only first Sacrament (dunking), out of several ones that are performed during the Baptism, would not be repeated again. All others would.
Wow
Hallelujah
His telegram page below and experiences the goodness of the lord on his teaching
🙏
@Rootsof_Orthodoxy
Hit him up babtizim is cool
Wow. If this is the real thing, I want it.
"One baptism for the forgiveness of sins."
I can't agree with you more. I'm catechumen and had a young protestant baptism but single immersion and I worry they're (antiochian) going to just want to Chrismate me. It doesn't bother me too much though as i know i am to be obedient to the bishop and it is ultimately on him and not me.
It can be on you too if you know better. I would personally seek a ROCOR Parish.
I too can not be baptized at my parish. I was baptized in a baptist church as a 8 year old kid who was bussed in from the neighborhoods 😢
I am a catechumen, can I call myself Christian before baptism?
амиь
Who said the man crucified with Jesus wasn't a Christian or was baptized at some point in his life.
Thief on the cross lived and died during OT times. Anything unclear.?
How is it not donatism, if you baptize eg lutherans
“We have learned from the ancient institution of the Fathers that all who are baptized in heresy in the name of the Trinity, when they return to the Mother of the Church, should invoke into her bosom either through the anointing with chrism , or through the laying on of hands, or only through the confession of faith." -St. Gregory the Great
Fr. James' words are beautiful regarding the priority of humility as the ideal for those seeking to enter the Orthodox Church. But trusting in the love and efficacy of God's grace through baptism "in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" is also beautiful, and important. To distrust the efficacy of God's working where he has promised to work is a *lack of faith,* not a mark of Orthodoxy. The prudent practice of *conditional* baptism where there is doubt of a former Trinitarian baptism is itself a proof of humility, given our human limitations. Baptism is, of course, the normative way of entering the Church; but *re-baptism* is not. For those who have been baptized with a Trinitarian formula in some tradition outside the Orthodox Church, *Chrismation* becomes the normative way of entering the Orthodox Church. The only reason that *seems* normative here in America/the West is because we have a massive population of people who have received a Trinitarian baptism from a non-Orthodox tradition. Context is crucial, as Fr. James made clear with his example of the penitent thief on the cross.
arche-athanatos.com/2021/11/22/sacramental-rigourism-tradition-or-modern-phenomenon/
Heterodox generally do not thrice immerse, that's where the problem comes. They must be baptized who were not baptized, three immersions being baptism. St. Gregory would have been referring to thrice immersion.
Im looking for a knowledgeable Orthodox clergy or theologian to come on my podcast.
Even though it was mentioned to simply obey your bishop, given the dividing tensions that exist on this topic right now, I don't think this is a helpful video, especially when there are canons from an ecumenical council that talk about receiving converts by heretical sects via chrismation only (that's an important point in this discussion, and it was completely ignored). Parishes are being divided over this topic for no good reason, so there needs to be the utmost of sensitivity when discussing the topic.
It was heterodox immersed thrice, not just any so called baptism.
As much as I believe the Orthodox church is the most true Christian denomination, it makes absolutely no sense to me why the Orthodox church says baptism and communion is necessary for salvation while also withholding it and gating it away from people.
That is not true. Noone stops you from getting Baptized after proper Catechism and approaching the Communion after proper preparation.
I am seeing almost entire parishes full of chrismated-only converts.
Reception by chrismation is becoming the normative method of reception in many parts of the west and it’s a little bit concerning.
What about the single immersion innovations by eunomius that were condemned?
Isn’t reception by chrismation only supposed to be in extreme cases only?
Now, priests are hand waving thousands of people through no matter the format of “baptism” someone had in the past as long as a single utterance of “father/son/holy spirit” was made and some water was involved in some way.
I do not regret insisting to my priest that my Protestant single-immersion “baptism” in a backyard pool not be recognized.
And I had to really push for it too. That didn’t sit well with me. My bishop agreed ultimately, which brought me peace.
As the father in the vid said it in no way makes those parishioners less Orthodox.
This man is right in the sense of Chrismation has become the norm when it should be eikonomia. Everyone should be received with baptism and chrismation should be only for some very rare cases - like apostates who are coming back. But I guess most opt for the lazy and easy way…
Thank God our Parish baptizes everyone!
There were times that saints received those baptized in one immersion through economia in the history of the Church, yet there’s no case I can find of them receiving Eunomians this way. The issue with the single immersion of the Eunomians that made them uniquely unable to be received through even economia was that they did not baptize in the name of the Trinity, but baptized with the formula “in the death of Christ.” Not saying it’s ideal, but it is distinctly different. Since the formula was manipulated to explicitly deny the Trinity in their use of one immersion and a varied formula, the Eunomians couldn’t be received by anything other than baptism.
@@retro-orthodox When did a Saint receive anyone without triple immersion?
If I went through RCIA and was confirmed Catholic but left the Catholic church and went back to the Protestant church I started out from if I become Orthodox do I become baptized like a Protestant or a Catholic ?
Priest you eventually get assigned to will be resolving that question for you.
If the priest is doing things correctly, you'll be baptized.
If baptism is so important why do the orthodox deny and withhold people from getting baptized?
That is not true. Noone stops you from getting Baptized after proper Catechism.
@ your wrong. I went to catechism for over 9 months never got baptized. It was totally arbitrary who the priest picked to let into the church. Really just seemed like who he liked or not and what is “proper catechism” my priest at the parish I attended openly admitted he never read the church fathers. He wasnt educated on christology either. He couldn’t articulate miaphysitism vs dyophysitism. What is the “proper catechism”? I’d love for you to actually define that without being arbitrary.
@ you didn’t answer my question. And can you tell me how you calculate humility? What is the device you use to measure these levels of humility? My first question was to define “proper catechism” you chose not to answer. I would like you to address it and not run away
Maybe ya got a mid priest man, could be lots of things I guess idk. all I know is I'm still a catechumen cuz Im lazy and don't go to all the classes hehe.
I would like to convert to Orthodox coming from Protestanism. Do I have to be re-baptized to fully join the Orthodox Church?
As far as I know, you should be baptized, not re-baptized. Since we do not recognize the sacraments outside of the Orthodox Church, which would mean there was no baptism in the name of the Holy Trinity as confessed in the Orthodox Church to begin with. But, it’s up to your priest and bishop. I know what my priest and spiritual father would do, which is, baptize everyone not baptized with an Orthodox baptism. 🤷🏻♀️
I was Evangelical Protestant and I was baptized when I was 14. I joined the Orthodox Church last year at the age of 21 and was baptized and Chrismated. I’ve been fortunate not to struggle with this dilemma like others do
I was previously thrice immersed by a Southern Baptist chaplain in a military chapel but was baptized in the Orthodox Church much later. My thrice immersion could have been given economia as it was as the Orthodox baptize but the Church can decide not to grant economia and baptize. It was not baptism before, only the Orthodox baptism is such.
Some Orthodox churches say 'yes' you must be Baptised but some do it by Chrismation.
@@marcokite The canonical way is baptism unless one was thrice immersed previously then economia can be used (but even then the Church can decide to baptize). One should always seek baptism.
I wonder if there is any way to be baptized in orthodoxy without having a church around me? I am living in Turkey and there are no orthodox churches nearby. I am at a loss and don't know what to do. I go to a little church (seed church). All kinds of Christians come to this little church. And they baptize, but I'm not sure what kind of baptism it is, I asked, I haven't gotten a response. I'm taking a baptism course. I don't want to do the wrong thing. I want to be baptized but I want to be baptized but correctly. Is there a wrong way? I'm so confused. I'm gonna watch this again. If anyone answers my questions, thank you, in advance! God bless you!
Orthodox Church Baptism is what counts. Wait for the opportunity and pray to the Lord for His help in resolving that problem of yours.
@@johnnyd2383 any orthodox church?
@@AshOzerLemon Any of Eastern Orthodox Churches. There are those Orientals who like to call themselves "orthodox" but those are FAKES just like so called Greek Catholics are...
Does Orthodoxy require a direct orthodox baptism? Or does one accept another apostolic church like Roman Catholics or Ethiopian ?
According to you? @@innerpull
Not according to our Saints and Canons, no.
However, economia can rightly be used if one was previously thrice immersed. Coming into the Church via Chrismation would make that baptism. Anything else is an abuse of economia.
@@colbypyles3831Chrismation is only Orthodox. If your local church is not at least Chrismating then the people are not Orthodox. There is no economia for Chrismation. The priest should be reported to his Bishop.
My apologies, I meant ONLY baptism, and I still don't know exactly for sure. I will remove my comment. Thank you, sister.@@LadyMaria
@@colbypyles3831 Scared me for a sec. Haha. Phew.
I still have Adams original sin along with an extensive list of other sins and heresies I have committed by Orthodox standards. I feel disgusting.
Orthodox don't believe in original sin so I hope that helps a little at least
Thief on the cross died chronologically PRIOR to the commandment to go and Baptize... as written in Matthew 28, 19. In other words... thief died at the time that was still under the OT when Baptism was NOT mandatory for salvation.
@@SpiritDetective-jd7wx That is outright heresy. So many examples in the Bible where ppl got dunked including our Lord.
There are examples of people who didn’t as well. Roman’s 6 is not talking about being “dunked” in water.
@@SpiritDetective-jd7wx Yes, we have many examples of Christian martyrs from first centuries who were Baptized in their own blood being tortured for the sake of our Lord and Christianity. Romans 6 is general story about the Baptism and it does not deal with the technicalities. I would suggest to you Acts 8 and Acts 10. Especially later chapter where we have example of people already received Holy Spirit (v. 44) BUT were dunked anyway (v. 47,48).
@@SpiritDetective-jd7wxExceptions don't disprove the normative. Water baptism in the Church is both physical and spiritual. Let us not be gnostics, that everything physical is bad.
@@LadyMaria I’m not gnostic. Gnostics believe all material matter is evil and is created by a false-god demiurge. I’m simply stating the fact as you should know that not every thing written in the scriptures is to be interpreted in a literal physical carnal sense; some things can be perceived as literal, some spiritual, some can be BOTH. Many of the Lords parables are not to be taken with a literal sense. There is without a doubt a spiritual baptism that is absolutely essential that the “sons of god” receive. A Christian needs BOTH water and spirit baptism.
I also agree with what you lot have taught me about water baptism as well.
Is it just me, or is orthodoxys' understanding of baptism can be summed up by Roman's 6:3-9.
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Yes. St. Paul does a good job of summarizing baptism here, which the Orthodox church has maintained consistent faith in,
i know alot of orthodox who have never been baptized
Then they are not Orthodox. To become Orthodox one must be baptized and Chrismated (or, sadly, Chrismated).
I believe the Catholic Church accepts all Trinitarian baptisms.
Hi my father is a breeder and a few days ago when my grandfather died we go to the burial on an orthodox church and my father gave 100 euros to the priest and the priest took it quickly and he put it in his pocket and he didn't say anything
I don’t understand why it is called “baptism “ since you’re not joining the baptist church ! Shouldn’t it be called “ christening “?.😅 just saying
No, we've been calling it baptizo (Greek) for 2,000 years. The Baptists came very late to the party in the 16th century. Christening is a Roman Catholic term.
Physical water baptism is not required. The true baptism is spiritual, Which is through faith and receiving the grace of the Lord.
True baptism is water baptism, and it is necessary (though there have been exceptions to be merciful, namely with St. Dismas though he was under the Old Covenant still, but that doesn't negate the normative way that God gave us).
Water baptism in the way the Church has done it for 2,000 years **is** being born of water and the Spirit. It is both/and, physical and spiritual. This is how Christians have believed since the beginning. In this one baptism (there is only one) in the Church (Ekklesia; the right-believing "orthos doxa" faithful People of God), we are infused with the uncreated grace of God.
Symbolism in Greek is not just a physical action or thing that represents something but has a spiritual reality too. That's why, for example, we don't believe that communion is merely the Western idea of symbolic (no spiritual reality).
The Gnostic heretics were big on teaching that things that were physical were wrong, sinful, with no spirituality. They believed spirituality had no physical component to it. That we are bodies with souls inside instead of bodies and souls together. They shunned the physical, yet Christ took on the physical with His Godliness and perfected it. This Gnosticism crept into Protestantism. It denies the physical which is a huge error, as these physical things are perfected by the spiritual, just as the same body we have now will be perfected in glory in the Resurrection, if we are judged in the final judgment to be with God for eternity.
And you're an authority on this because of your own personal, private interpretations of the Scriptures which are in stark contradiction to 2000 years of Christianity?
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5)
Despite all examples in the Bible including Lord's own water Baptism.? Oh, Lord.!
@@LadyMaria you are using Gnosticism as a “red herring” to redirect away from the FACT that there is without a doubt a spiritual baptism. I can accept and agree with what y’all taught me about water baptism, but there is also a spiritual baptism as well, which is why in John 3 it says born of water and spirit. A true Christian will have BOTH not one or the other.
Thanks for correcting me about water baptism.
My original post is incorrect. I have learned that water baptism AND spiritual baptism are both necessary for a Christian in the Lord Jesus Christ.
Do you really believe the thief on the cross looked at Jesus and saw Him as God? No, he didn't, bc that's not how Jewish people at that time viewed the Messiah. Come on Father, get real. There were no huge theological insights for the people of that day. That all came much later.
Those who came to believe in Him, believed He is God.
If you read his words, there is no doubt he recognized Him as God... otherwise he wouldn't be saying ".. into your Kingdom"
So ... All Orthodox baptized people are going to Heaven.
It depends on God's judgment. Baptism is precursor that is required as stated in Mark 14, 14.
@@johnnyd2383 "Say to the owner of the house he enters, ‘The Teacher asks: Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’" What are you talking about
@@perochialjoe That Baptism is prerequisite but not a guarantee of salvation. Anything unclear.?