Should We Become Eastern Orthodox? - Answering Trent Horn
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Excerpt from:
"On Ecclesiology: Vatican II and
Neo-Papalism in the Orthodox Church
" - With Fr. Peter Heers
Watch the full lecture here:
• On Ecclesiology: Vatic...
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Fr. Peter, THANK YOU for stating the truth in such clarity. When one of the apostles ask Jesus who they were to go to, he didn't say Peter, he said they should go to James the Just.
"Popes can make mistakes". There is huuuuuuggggeee leap from "mistake" to "heresy". Saying that the current pope makes mistakes is like saying that a con artist may have confused some people.
Fragmentation on steroids in Western “Christendom.” We feel your frustration Fr Peter! Their whole rationalistic, progressive mindset blinds them from being able to understand the unified Orthodox Ethos!
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Well said ☦️☦️☦️
I want to be an orthodox priest
Go ahead friend. If it's God's will it will happen. God bless ☦
I recommend to speak to your spiritual father about it first. So he can help you if you want to go that way.
Do you have a spiritual father?
Have you been to Mt. Athos? Or the monasteries in America?
Have you spent time with good, pious priests?
These are essential. Begin here.
20:41 Trent says not as a tyrant, and yet we have the history of the history of the schismatic Papacy. Literally declaring wars at times and making kingdoms subject to his power.
I would love to see a live discussion/debate between an Orthodox apologist and a Catholic one (eg, Jimmy Akin)
His bias is so clear when he interprets decentralization as "fragmentation".
On the inverse, if you accept the Pope, it doesn't matter how much of a heretic you are (Monophysite, Arian etc), you're considered part of the church.
Absolutely ridiculous.
Only Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever - not Peter.
I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school till high school. These arguments never made sense to me. Always rubbed me the wrong way. I thank God that He led me to Holy Orthodoxy. 🙏🏻☦️
Feelings do not determine truth.
@@gregorypizarro9403exactly, Orthodoxy is the Truth
Orthodoxy, definitely has most of fullness of the faith but lacks the Rock that Christ established and where he has built his church, the Catholic Church (western and eastern)
And those who built there house on the sand were not wise. The winds came, and the house came down with a mighty crash.
He did not mention feelings.
perfect spot for protestants and Christians that hate the pope.
A great video for Roman Catholics who are now discovering Eastern Orthodoxy.
I’m Eastern Catholic, and trust me this video severely misses the mark. There is no substance here.
@@gregorypizarro9403
You should read what the Saint in your PFP says about Rome
I love st. Nektarios, and he’s my patron saint. I have read what he has said and sadly he is wrong. Not everything that a saint says is correct.
@@gregorypizarro9403There's a massive difference between being wrong and heretical. Rome would consider him heretical. Former Melkite here turned Orthodox.
I’m Melkite. And as someone who was Catholic you should know that nektarios is a saint in the church.
Also you should have known that those who have wrong views and don’t understand the papacy or what the church teaches due to what they were raised with are not considered heretical. They are misinformed.
When I was Catholic, if I had to go to another parish for mass, I’d be anxious about what kind of mass I’d be attending. As a matter of fact, if I’d go to another mass in my own parish it could be so strikingly different from my usual one that I’d be pressed to believe that it was the same parish and the same priest, alas the same church. As an orthodox, I’ve been to liturgies in other parishes of other patriarchates in different countries and found the very same liturgy. So much for the central authority of Rome.
Could you please pray for me?? I’m greatly struggling with this as a former evangelical who’s been attending Mass for many months now. The stark contrast in Mass really bothers me and the recent statements of the Pope are very concerning
@@shieldoffaith8798 Praying for you… 🙏🏻
People who say the Orthodox Church is "split" or "fragmented" obviously are completely ignorant of the Orthodox life and community
Moscow and Constantinople excommunicated each other in 2017. Which is the true church, and which is tha false, excommunicated church? does ukraine deserve autocephaly? the orthos are the most divided community in the world.
Brilliant point- I never realized until now that the RCC is more like a business organization. I’ve been thinking for several years tho’ how enmeshed it is with the secular world.
For the first 1000 years we were the same church. Peter belongs to the Eastern Church just as much as Rome.
Moreso to the Eastern Church as 2 of the 3 Petrine Sees remain Orthodox.
Not true. The Oriental Orthodox broke off in 451.
@@johnsambo9379 - the Oriental Orthodox broke off from the Universal Church (including Rome).
@@johnsambo9379I think he is referring to the Pentarchy.
@@acekoala457 - exactly! Antioch is Petrine, Alexandria founded by St Mark the disciple of St Peter is Petrine, even Constantinople which was founded by St Andrew, the brother of St Peter is kinda Petrine!
Trent is a bright guy but VERY muddled on the subject of ecclesiology. The RCC has diluted the liturgy and teaching on faith and morals - the Orthodox Church HAS NOT. So what system actually works??
I was Roman Catholic now very happily Orthodox - thanks be to God!!
The orthodox allow divorce three times. Jesus allows it zero times. The orthos falsified the teaching on priestly ceibacy at Trullanum II (Quinisextum) when they referenced the African Canons, more precisely, they forged the African Canons to mean that they allow married priests.
So he Roman Catholic Church diluted faith and morals while the Orthodox Church did not? Pray, tell me what Jesus taught about divorce?
Ah yes the Russians killing their own Ukrainian brothers and sisters are so moral. Oh yes and the Serbiana who massacred the Albanians in Kosovo and carved Orthodox Crosses on their dead bodies, while being supported by the Orthodox bishops, are also very virtuous and moral Christ like men.
Very good broadcast. The Host of this broadcast did quite well, elucidate the Orthodox Christian Faith of the Councils. Δοξα το Θεο. I highly recommend this broadcast for anyone, Roman Catholics, Protestants, Baptists, Atheist, Diest, Pagan.
"Catholics are always looking for a pope." -- V. Rev. Fr. John Matusiak of blessed memory, who brought hundreds of Catholics into the Orthodox Church. His mother was the first.
Catholics gloss over the First Council in Jerusalem and the Canons of the 1st Millenium.
Not all Catholics, some are unaware of the history etc.
@@crowlikemadness That's glossing over.
..Trent amd others seem to have selective amnesia regarding church history that refutes their papal church
I've been attending an Orthodox church for over 2 years, and this video was so helpful for me as a former protestant. Thank you, Father, for this video.
Many Catholics after Vat II, have been subjected to watered down masses and poorly catechized. I had no clue personally about the RCC when I started on my journey , but once cracks started to appear and after 4 years of turmoil, I made my way into the Orthodox church. I think that the problem is, the Orthodox church is the best kept secret is why many wound up in the RCC.
Were you Catholic before?
Yeah, maybe you were also poorly catechized? Have you been to a Latin Mass? You are talking about yourself!
Could you please pray for me?? I’m greatly struggling with this question right now. I’ve been attending Mass for months now and am torn on what to do because the Filoque brings me confusion. I usually attend Novus Ordo and would not be able to attend the Latin Mass very often at all. I think the stark contrast in Mass greatly bothers me
@@shieldoffaith8798 Even the greeks and other orthodox AGREED to the Filioque in 1443. Most of the eastern fathers, including St Basil, St Maximus, the Cappadocians, taught the Filioque. only the present-day orthos make it out to be a big thing. in reality it is a non-issue.
Try to attend the Latin Mass as frequently as you can, and you will find solace. Attending novus ordo seems to be your main problem.
@@voxpopuli8132 hey thank you for your response. I hear you. While I love the LM, it’s not really an option for me. If the LM is not available to most, how can Catholics endure through some of these downright depressing Masses? I cried after attending our local parish because of how sad it made me. We had a girl with pink hair as an alter girl and the homily was pretty awful. My biggest struggle is how can Catholics have such varying degrees of experiences at Mass? I’m really confused over the fact that I’ve been to beautiful Mass and to a couple where people let their kids eat snacks, disrupt and talk loudly before and after and there’s a lack of holiness? I see half the people at the parish leave early from Mass and it’s hard to take it seriously but I know without a doubt that I believe in the Eucharist and can never return to Protestantism. The recent statements from the Pope greatly worry me and even though it’s not an ex-cathedra remark, it’s very damaging to the christian witness.
To give one man power is asking for that power to be corrupted. The English St Bede (died AD 735) wrote "although it may seem that this power of loosing and binding was given by The Lord to Peter, we know without any doubt that it was also given to the other apostles as Christ himself testifies when after the triumph and passion of his resurrection, He appeared to them and breathed upon them and said to them "all, receive ye the Holy Spirit, if ye forgive the sins of any they are forgiven to them. If ye retain the sins of any, they are retained". Therefore all the apostles and their successors are equal, working together in a conciliar fashion - or should have remained so if Rome had not got ahead of itself and seized supreme power. I do hope Trent Horn watches this video of yours Father. He is one of the most moderate and intelligent Catholic apologists and I was surprised at his reaction here.
@gregorypizarro9403 ^^
THANK YOU!
You don't even need to compare Catholicism to Orthodoxy. Just compare Catholicism to itself. Catholicism is self contradicting, constantly evolving and chaotic.
How was Peter infallible? Paul himself called Peter out.
Peter is the leader of the apostles, Paul himself in his wording says "EVEN Peter".
I thought the Pope has spoken infallibly like twice.
Exactly. The two dogmas about Holy Mary @@jmanuel722
Peter estabishes the church of Antioch then goes to Rome
Rome kills Peter
"We own Christianity now"
"We got Peter's keys,"🤦♂️
Right? It's almost like St. Peter in his martyrdom dropped a physical set of keys and the See of Rome grabbed it to become "Peter".
@@donhaddix3770 LOL prove what? My comment was in jest, a joke.
I have heard so many unjust slanders against Fr. Peter; both against his views and praxis. Yet I, and many others, have been blessed for the Orthodox Ethos’ edifying material and content. Orthodoxy as a whole is very small on the internet, and it can be difficult to find insight into very important matters, but Fr Peter’s work has helped me, and many others, tremendously.
~
O Lord Jesus Christ, enkindle the hearts of all Thy priests with the fire of zealous love for Thee, that they may ever seek Thy glory; Give them strength that they may labor unceasingly in Thine earthly vineyard for the salvation of our souls and the glory of Thine All-Honorable and Majestic Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages. Amen.
If the gospel was "the kingdom of heaven is at hand" and christ is the king, doesnt that make the church the kingdom of heaven, and christ the one annoited to be king? I mean his title means anoited one. Anoited for what?
Christ is the head of the church, making the modern papacy a userpation of Christs place.
Christ is the head of the Christian Congregations.
@@donnajones3152 The Orthodox Church, yes.
Who is the shepherd of the Church? Christ. He is the head. All the bishops, priests, and deacons are his servants. Again and again, they repeat that the pope somehow unites the church, but in actual practice the Roman Papist church is completely fragmented and it is their popes that have largely caused this disunity.
I like how you pointed out fr peter that that he was trying to equate honor with infallibility somehow as if the leap from one to the other somehow
should be obvious to all
I was Catholic. I’m going to become a catechumen in the Eastern Orthodox Church tomorrow. Looking forward to this new chapter in my walk with Christ.
What are you going to join? Russian or Constantinople/Greek?
@@33legion There is only 1 Eastern Orthodox Church with separate dioceses and patriarchates. Even the Catholic Church has patriarchates and dioceses for certain ethnicities, example being the Italo-Albanian Byzantine Catholic Church in Italy, for the Albanians there.
@@oogaleeboogalee6522 Yes, but as of 2018, there is a schism between Moscow and Constantinople.
@@33legion So you admit your comment is pointless? The schism means only, and _only_ Russian Orthodox parishioners may not commune _only_ with Constantinopolitan parishioners. The excommunication was not returned on Constantinople's part either, so Russian Orthodox may commune at Constantinopolitan parishes. You very evidently don't know what you're talking about and are using the disproven "which orthodox church?" Argument which is a strawman. There have been schisms between canonical autocephalous Churches throughout Church history, such as the Meletian schism. Communion with 1 man does not and has never determined canonicity.
@@oogaleeboogalee6522 No. My comment is not pointless. I'd like you to cite your sources. From what I understand, the Russian Church has said that it's parishioners cannot recieve sacraments from those aligned with Constantinople. If I'm wrong on this, that's good, as more unity in the Church is better. But this looks likes schism to me.
"Communion with 1 man..." I assume you're referring to the pope, and yes, if you haven't guessed yet, I am Catholic. I get that the Catholic Church hasn't been safe from schism, what with the Reformation, but I don't like when Eastern orthodox use that as an argument against our Church. You guys are separating over politial divides. Look at the recent news with Ukraine and orthodox offiliated with Russia. I know this argument doesn't dissprove orthodoxy, but then I would say Protestantism doesn't disprove Catholicism.
Human organizations have existed in a multitude of power structures from Judges, Monarchy, Oligarchy, Democracy etc. Fallacy in the very beginning from Trent.
Executive, Legislative, Judicial
Should we be come orthodox...yes definitely..I'm in the process of converting, and recommending to my family, I lived a secular life,an was baptized as RC as a baby but it never spoke to my heart like orthodoxy 🙏☦️
Be received as the Holy Fathers' teach: by baptism, chrismation and Holy Communion (not Chrismation - often WITHOUT the exorcisms.._)
@@OrthodoxEthos
I have seen people receiving Chrismation get Exorcised but only once did I see the renunciation of errors
If we had a council, the Pop would not be allowed to attend.
_Orthodox hierarchs to the Pope:_ *"You are Peter's successor? Good, then repent like he did"*
@@panokostouros7609 Yes!
Trent Horn is full of wickedness
@@visancristian8450No I think he’s just defending what he believes is true. We shouldn’t call ignorance wickedness.
It wouldn't be a council then unless the Pope wants to tell you guys it's legitimate or not lol. You guys need the Pope to validate your sacraments to
He does not even know how to say "πρώτος" and he is trying to extrapolate and read things into the Scriptures. By the way we have always called Peter the most high among the Apostles or in Greek "κορυφαίος" .
I would love to convert but where I am, the EOC has no meaningful presence at all. So, effectively, I'm no longer aligned with any church. Formally Catholic, but realistically, given recent events, no more.
Reach out to a Orthodox priest or church in your region. Even if it is far away and you can still make arrangements to be catechized and brought into the church and pray the services at home
@@didymus2721 Agreed. Depending on how far away it is, perhaps @jceezee could arrange to travel to the nearest Orthodox parish on a Saturday, attend great vespers and then stay overnight, in order to attend liturgy on Sunday?
Receiving the medicine of immortality even once a month is infinitely better than apostasy.
Where are you?
Surely, there is something for you nearby?
Gay Catholic babylon
Huh! Very good points, father! +
I hit the “like” on this and received a notification that “that action is disabled”. Is this an algorithm thing? Won’t hitting “like” bring more OE content to my channel? 🤔
I was able to hit the "like" button
It may be a back end server thing.
If you comment it'll push it to your algo too.
It happens. Just wait a moment and try again.
did it work?
@@OrthodoxEthos Glory to God it did.
I’m a former Protestant who has come to the realization the Orthodox Church is the true Church. With that being said, it was not easy and those without the time and intellect to absorb the information will have a difficult time deciding between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism as there are several Catholic apologists who make much better arguments than Trent. My heart tells me God is not going to require a theological test to determine we were in the correct Apostolic Church when we come before him. But the more we know, the more accountable we may be held. I may be wrong….
Γειά σου Πάτερ Πέτρε είσαι παλληκάρι, ευλόγησον....God bless you. ΆΞΙΟΣ!!!!!!!
Great points, all very true. Stated respectfully too.
Like with atheists, until they can accept a single idea, everything said is pearls before swine. Atheists must first come to accept the possibility of a god to convert, papists must first come to the understanding of the hierarchy of jurisdictions to understand the position and proper place of the pope.
Better if not Orthodox then better Catholic if not Catholic then better protestant but never atheist not better. Id rather someone become protestant than atheist. We know atheism is poison to the human soul life. But Protestantism we know to also be devoid if true spiritually and sainthood and holiness, full truth of faith fullness.
Matt from pints and Trent are both eastern Catholics. So it’s kinda bit different with them.
O Lord, save Thy people,
and bless Thine inheritance! ☦️
🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼
🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼❤️🙏🏼
Grant thou victory to orthodox christians over enemies, and by the power of thy cross, do thou preserve thy commonwealth
I was baptized Orthodox 2 years ago. All my life previously I just dismiss all Catholicism as necessarily false because of the demonic Pope. I didn't know about orthodoxy and I didn't know about history
The lack of humility in the RC, which is the essence of Christian teaching, is astounding
It is weird! I feel like I’ve waited all my life to hear you defend Holy Orthodoxy like this! Finally!!!
No legalism. Only guidance by the Holy Spirit and cleaving to the faithful Saints throughout history…
Having lived prior to and after Vatican Council II I'm always a bit amused (and saddened) by references to "the Catholic Church." Which one? Compare what Vatican II's Nostrae Aetate teaches about Jews and Muslims to what Cantate Domino (pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence -- using "infallible" language) teaches. Completely opposite! Anyone knowing logic can easily see that if one is true the other has to be false, yet both continue to be official teachings on the Vatican website. Compare Vatican II's teachings on Religious Liberty or Ecumenism to previous popes and councils. Blatant contradictions! One can be called the Roman Catholic religion and the other the Novus Ordo religion. So when someone refers to the Catholic Church, which one are they referring to?
As a Protestant I realize Orthodox will disagree with me on much (but I really appreciate the strong responses against the papacy which is something we Protestants and Orthodox agree about).
Fr. Peter Heers must have supernatural patience ---- to be able to listen to this Trent Horn guy!
14:15 Yes. Let's have a debate about who is to be called first in the Kingdom. That hasn't been settled before
An argument from silence is a logical fallacy!
“Notice what Jesus doesn’t say…He doesn’t say there isn’t anyone that is greater than the others…”
Father, will you have an actual discussion with Trent Horn? Or any Catholic?
I may be mistaken, but I've never seen you talk WITH a Catholic. Just about Catholics. Correct me if I am mistaken. God bless you.
Fr. Peter has written many times that he is open to an exchange.
God is 3 in 1 - WHO IS JUST ONE ............... WHO DEMENDS TO BE THE GENERAL AT THE TOP ?
The guy disproves his own point - God in action
The devil 😈 has caused so much division. I pray for union ❤☦️
1854 Marian doctrine, yet we are still awaiting the 5th and final? 1870 pope infallibility becomes dogma - see Acts ch15 and the Council at Jerusalem AD49 a touch prior to 1870. Christ is the one who provides salvation not a pope or a church/religion but Christ. Peters authority - petra? is the word used in Greek which points to a rock formation - Jesus used his (Peter) statement of Jesus being the Son of God being the ROCK, not the dude he calls satan in the next verses.
15:00 Who could claim Judas was an unimportant disciple? He is a major plot point. Maybe "least honored"
Trent At about 19 minutes he does a a slight of hand spin in which he says Paul rebuking Peter was to show that Paul is willing to rebuke the pope i.e the one with most authority 😆
Trent is very smart but this is a bad approach.
I am Protestant but if i had to choose between Catholicism and Orthdodox i would definitely choose Orthodox.
Wouldn't Jesus Christ be the head of the church? Only a fully divine man could do the job. No regular person could fulfill that role. Head bishops get together to make decisions and pray the holy Spirit is leading, right?
Hello, brother! Could you recommend to me a digital encyclopedia to study the Chruch Fathers?
Fr. Peter doesn't understand the basic point, nor answer directly the fundamental issues raised by Mr. Horn. The "Orthodox" has become subjectivist like protestants, not understanding the absolute importance of an objective basis for man to come know and receive divine revelation, which is the teaching authority of the magisterium of the Church, which the Pope exercises either along with the other bishops in the ordinary fashion , in a council or alone ( extraordinary fashion). The fathers of the church are not the final teaching authority in the church ( which the "orthodox have made them. They disaggreed on many points)
They are witnesses of the only apostolic tradition only when they all agree. Hence another authority must guide the Christian people when they disagree, hence the living magisterium of the church. But that doesn't mean the bishops or even the Pope has arbitrary powers to change the doctrine, why ? Because the magisterium MUST be guided by the sources of divine revelation, the Holy Scriptures and Tradition of the church. Even the Vatican 1 document "Pastor Aeternus" which Fr. Peter mentions says the same.
Therefore the just rejection of Vatican II novelties the modernists has imposed on the church by faithful Catholics.
He
Hey I have a question, is the things that Orthoprax christianity is teaching abt orthodoxy true?
Do Catholics believe that Matthew 16:13-20 confirms Peter as the Rock of the Church? I understand Matthew was written in Hebrew, but I have understood the English translation confirms Christ, Son of the Living God is the Rock of the Church. Am I incorrect? What is the Orthodox and correct teaching?
The confession of St. Peter that Christ is the Son of God is the Rock, yes.
Matthew isn’t written in Hebrew, we do not have a single evidence for this, much of Protestant thinking have been influenced by modern day Judaizers. Matthew is originally in Greek!
I'm a Protestant, not much of a dog in this race, but Trent Horn just got destroyed here
7:06 THIS is the reason to become Orthodox: nothing changes. I am in my current doubt of Protestantism because it keeps changing and evolving and "progressing". I need stasis.
I’d love to see a conversation between you and Trent Horn on this subject.
Yes, come home to Orthodoxy ☦️
But i became Catholic after finding that orthodox is not catholic (universal) in nature.
Too universal. As Vatican 2 states, you worship the same god as the Muslims. Here, as outlined by Lumen Gentium, a principle document of the Second Vatican Council.
(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things
Katholikos (wholeness in Greek) is about the Faith.
Orthodoxy is "Whole" when it comes to the Faith.
Rome is "Whole" when it comes to accepting every false doctrine.
This is great to see you so publicly addressing RC polemics against orthodoxy. This is a powerful video.
God bless.
The fragmentation is the purpose of the pope.
Yes, yes you should.
AMEN❤
From the vision of Saint Niphon: "Then came in the large crowd of the people that did not know Jesus Christ, but they kept His law anyway, listening to the Holy Spirit and their good conscience. Many of them were shining as bright as the sun in their innocence and purity, and The Lord gave them Paradise and beautiful bright crowns with roses and lilies. But these people were all blind because they haven’t been holied in the holy Baptism. Because in spirit the Baptism is light and the sight of the soul. They could not see at all the Greatness of God. This is why whoever is not baptized, even if they make it to heavens, they cannot see a thing."
Pray.
@@OrthodoxEthos From the vision of Saint Niphon: "Then came in the large crowd of the people that did not know Jesus Christ, but they kept His law anyway, listening to the Holy Spirit and their good conscience. Many of them were shining as bright as the sun in their innocence and purity, and The Lord gave them Paradise and beautiful bright crowns with roses and lilies. But these people were all blind because they haven’t been holied in the holy Baptism. Because in spirit the Baptism is light and the sight of the soul. They could not see at all the Greatness of God. This is why whoever is not baptized, even if they make it to heavens, they cannot see a thing."
I'm just a protestant listening in. But comes to mind, as Trent is clinging to Peter. If Peter was supremo over all, why did Paul boldly rebuke him. Infallible, mmmok 😮
Well, Trent is right that there is one Man that’s the head of the Church… He’s just wrong about who He is!
(I know he would grant this point, but it still stands.)
I love everyone. I pray for unity
Good.
unity in truth.
Thank you for taking your time to share your knowledge on these videos as they are so important for men in your historical position/knowledge to break it down for us to know the whole picture❤️
100%
catholics seek the pope not God.
What a dumb comment. One vould just as easily say that orthodox seek councils, not God.
I like that you mentioned that the pope should come back to the faith. It really would just take the one man to bring the whole faith together 😂😭
You deserve more likes on this video than pints with aquinas got on their video you reviewed.
He really slipped in the word “special” there at 20:34 without proving it in any way 😭
I SO appreciate the gift of discernment and explaining it that Fr. Peter Heers has!
Taking pride in an ignorant “stasis” is delusional to the fact the church is living and growing. You’re as good as Protestant without Peter’s authority, except other than scripture, you also have some councils. While Christs church continues to grow and fight back against the devil, yours will simply do its best to endure.
Let me know if you’d like me to elaborate
Muh AuThOrItY!
That’s all you Papists know about, always hungry for worldly power and authority, the real St. Peter was an example of humbleness and repentance, to which your Popes are lacking.
Thank you for this!
22:00 this is like six flags.
Fr. Petros, I think you are WRONG, ALL The Ecumenical Councils "WERE" call by The Emperors, what does The Monks at St. Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastary/Athos have to day about that, your statement that "The Emperors" don't have to call The Council are your own personal opinion NOT Traditional, again what does The Monks from Athos AND St. Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastary have to say about that🤔🤔🤔
The title or term Oecumenical WAS attached and attributed to the decisions which pertained and were mandated for the entire ECUMENE / ROMAN EMPIRE.
The essence of what an Oecumenical Council means FOR THE CHURCH and in practice what it means and how it is viewed is not dependent on the Church being in the Empire, of course.
The same stance of acceptance and embrace is held by the Church for those councils which were accepted and ratified by the Emperor and Empire (the ECUMENE then, entitled THUS as OECUMENICAL) AND for those councils *after the fall of the empire,* which have been embraced by the entire Church, such as that of 1484. IN PRACTICE we treat them the same and their authority IN PRACTICE is the same.
You can argue over the term and reason for it use during the Roman Empire if you like. I am interested in the pastoral and spiritual reality for the Church and Her life.
The CHURCH is not limited by or bound by the existence of an Empire -- neither before Constantine or after. Of course.
How much more, of course, is this true with regard to the Pope of Rome -- who lost all authority when he lost faithfulness to the Truth.
P.S. There will be an Oecumenical Council soon, according to some Saints of our day... and it will have universal authority. The age of Oecumenical Councils is not yet over.
@@OrthodoxEthos
(I'm not trying to contradict you or fight with you,, just what I YES learned,)
Yes it will be after World War-3 when The Sleeping King comes back to Life and WILL call that Council according to The Monks at St. ANTHONY'S GREEK ORTHODOX MONASTARY, THE KING'S NAME IS SAINT IYOANNIS "DUKAS" VATAZES, he is The White Horseman from The Apocalypse, Elder Ephraim of Arizona talks about Him SPECIFICALLY on Uncreated Light Press Video. ☦ 😊
@@OrthodoxEthos
Yes, The Monks of St. Anthony's Greek Orthodox Monastary told me The Emperor (Saint) "Iyoannis Dukas Vatazes" is The Marble King who will rule The New Roman Empire after World War-3 and they said he IS The White Horseman from The Book of The Apocalypse, other have said he who will call The REAL 8th Ecumenical Council.
Elder Ephraim in Uncreated Light Press talks Specifically about him. ☦ 😊
☦️ “GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST” ! THIS IS WHY AN TRUE EXORCISM CAN ONLY BE DONE BY AN ORTHODOX PRIEST OR BISHOP, A TRUE EXORCISM CAN NEVER BE DONE BY ANYONE OUTSIDE THE ORTHODOX CHURCH BECAUSE “SATAN CANNOT CAST OUT SATAN” !!!!!!!! AMEN. ☦️🫵
Didn’t seventh ecumenical council teach filioque and pope supremacy
No, the 7th Ecumenical Council was against Iconoclasm. The 8th Ecumenical Council (AD 879) anathematized the Filioque and Papal Supremacy.
No , filioque was first imposed in 809 AD at Aachen Germany by Charlemagne , trying to change the Creed for political reasons .:
*The Eighth Ecumenical Synod*
With the Frankfurt Synod in 794 AD. but even with the coronation of Charlemagne as Emperor of the Romans, there will be an upheaval in the Orthodox Church, but also in the entire Eastern Roman Empire.
Charlemagne's divisive visions between East and West had not stopped.
The year 809 AD Charles convened another Synod in Aachen, Germany, where he presided. In this Synod it *was decided to add the Filioque* , i.e. the teaching that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, they considered it necessary for the salvation of people and thus added it to the Creed.
Photius the Great, Patriarch of Constantinople,
seeing this religious destruction of Western Christianity, convened in the year 879-880 AD. the Eighth Ecumenical Council in Constantinople.
*Present were the representatives of the Pope of Rome, John VIII, but also of the other embattled Patriarchates.*
This Synod is very important because it is the last Synod between the Orthodox Eastern Church and the Orthodox Western Church,
because after it the Western Christians moved away from the Orthodox Church.
...
@@LadyMaria where in the council?
Sure bro. It teaches everything the papists need it to teach to suit their current agenda.
@@VirginMaryprayforme The entire EC of AD 879 (or, Pan-Orthodox Council of AD 879) was about the restoration of St. Photios, and condemning any who altered the Creed.
Uncut Mountain Press has books on this stuff. The are videos on this channel too.
TH-cam doesn't allow links.
orthodoxy: 12 apostles without Peter. Incomplete.
Roman “Catholicism”’s flawed relation to ecclesial authority is the direct reason Protestantism exists. Unsound doctrines have tremendous consequences
Antioch and Alexandria are Petrine too.
@mumak333 what unsound doctrines? Heresies happen all the time, including pre 'Roman Catholicism'. First few centuries were ripe with heresies. Islam was born out of the heretical movements. Oriental Orthodox churches spun off as well. They also think that Orthodox are not really Orthodox. Roman branch is one of the many churches within the Catholic church.
@@acekoala457Yes, but it's understood that Rome is the primary Holy See of Peter (and Paul).
The problem that the Orthodox have to solve is what is an ecumenical council? What determines an ecumenical?
I’m sorry but this material that you are giving is very very weak.
It amazes me how Orthodox don’t have good apologetics when it comes to many issues. Not all orthodox, but if this is fr. Peters response, it is not pretty good.
That is no problem at all. The problem is for the papists who have councils at which neither pope nor legates were present and others at which popes were dismissed or charged with heresy.
Rather, the opposite it true: without a basis in the spiritual life and spiritual understanding of the Church and episcopacy, but only a legalistic and worldly outlook, the papal apologists miss the point again and again.
Fr Peter mentioned we had the 8th and 9th EC, plus they continue to have synods and meetings.
Whats interesting though is that if Rome was supreme, why wasn't any of the first 7 ECs held in Rome? Why weren't any bishops of rome at the 7 ECs? Why didn't Peter preside at the Council of Jerusalem? The simple answer is because it was never believed Peter had supremacy
They cannot because they have a false ecclesiology.
No sincere person can remain or become latin protestant or luther line protestant. It's a matter of wickedness of the heart
Of passions, perhaps, more generally. Yes. These are the main obstacles:
Ignorance
Pride
Envy
etc.
Short answer: no.
Right. No, your defense of papal protestantism, Trent, missed the mark in a major way.
@@OrthodoxEthosYou keep using "papal" in a condescending way (at least that what it seems to me).
Orthodox have popes, too.