TO CLARIFY! I'm not saying that you as a fan should not feel upset or disappointed that your favorite idol did something bad. Anyone is allowed to feel however they want, I just wanted to provide a different perspective to the discourse. I personally find it weird and insensitive when majority of the online posts about this situation are about our feelings as fans when we could be centering the victims and offering them support instead of making it about ourselves as fans or other idols/groups. I understand that having empathy for both is possible, but I barely see any support for the victims which is unfortunate, and I wanted to call attention to it.
I am not ashamed to say that I used to stan Taeil but what he did is beyond disgusting. I really really hope the victim is doing ok. And what really hurts the most is how less concern and support people are showing towards the victim rather they are busy fighting about weather their idols are good or not and how we don't know our idols. I'm shocked and disappointed towards these kpop stans. Really hope the victim gets the justice they deserve. I stand by the victim.
stans or not stans people making this situation about stanning, being a fan or who they are a fan of just want to feel better about themselves making this a superiority battle when it's literally only about being human, any person you know or don't know can do horrible things....
This is so real. I haven’t seen a single thing about the victim or any show of empathy but the amount of people saying things like “I’m in shock” and “I found out and started sobbing” (because she was a taeil stan) is crazy and an overpowering voice in the situation
if i was raped and then saw people on social media be like "boohoo now i have to remove paper from my wall" i'd be pissed. although i think feeling empathy for other nct members and sm employees is fair in the sense that they could've become victims too.
We should always lend all our support to the victim (s ?) of course, just as you said, THEY are the ones whose life will forever be affected by these events, I totally agree. And I also agree that we should definetly think before posting things in social media, you never know whos gonna watch the things you put up. However, I dont know if im just mistaken what you meant because of your wording, but I feel like its a little insensitive to act as if we can't express sadness over this situation? Not towards Taeil, he deserves no empathy, but a lot of fans really did find comfort in the person that was shown in the screen, they had trust in him, and I feel like we should be allowed to mourn the person we thought he was. And I dont mean no offense, once again I am simply trusting the things the company shows us, but NCT SEEM more than just coworkers, theyve been together for 8 years, they have gone through a lot and they too have been affected by his actions, I feel like we SHOULD feel bad for them, their groups image has been tainted most likely for the rest of their career, itll weigh down heavy on their shoulders for a while. Of course, none of this compares to what the victim has gone through, I sincerely hope they get their justice. And some people online are so insanely weird, I hope they know the majority of nctizens are on their side.
I partially agree and think it's fine to be disappointed and upset by what's happened, but I think it's odd that majority of the empathy is being offered to the NCT members and NCTzens while support for the victims is made an afterthought or flat out ignored when I think it should be the priority. Like the group will definitely be affected and might feel deceived by Taeil but they are still going to be rich and famous and won't have the trauma that a victim will for the rest of their life. I just personally think its weird and parasocial to 'mourn' a person you don't actually know just because you liked their persona/art when a victim is mourning their actual abuse🤷🏾♀. Parasocial relationships make us think that's normal behavior when its not. I also think that we as fans read into the members relationships (comes with forming parasocial relationships) and don't realize how much of their friendliness and affection is part of a performance and their image as a band. If they showed a more realistic coworker relationship, which I suspect most of them have off screen, fans would not be as invested.
@lanislens Thank you for answering ! You're honestly right, a lot of compassion is being shown for the fans and the members, when most of it should be directed towards the victim. It is being treated as an after thought in a lot of posts and tt videos who completely ignore the severity of the situation because they're more familiar with Taeil/NCT and the "drama/controversy" aspect of the news, hopefully you get what I mean because I'm not sure I can explain it well 😭. And although parasocial relationships can be and are extremely unhealthy, people liked and found comfort in Taeils persona, I don't mean that they should blast it all over social media for people to feel bad for them, while you may feel sadness and "mourn" the loss of your bias, that doesn't compare to the victims actual, very real abuse and what they may feel upon seeing such reactions, I meant that it's not wrong to feel that way, that you shouldn't feel guilty yknow. And I do agree about what you said about the members relationships, they probably aren't as close as they want us to think, thats the simple truth 🤷♀️. If they showed the behavior of simple coworkers then fans just simply wouldnt be as interested (since as you said, analyzing the groups bonds with each other comes with forming parasocial relationships which then means interest which then means more profit for the band/company) But I still think that even if what they show us on screen is most likely just a facade, they're probably still good friends behind the scenes, but that's just what I decide to believe, just my opinion. Once again thank you for answering, you're very well spoken :). Sorry for my rant and if it seems like I just repeated everything I said in my last comment 😭
Don't apologize! I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I think I'm an outlier when it comes to this topic so I don't expect everyone to agree but you were very respectful and willing to hear me out. Thanks for watching!
@@lanislensI get your point but I think you don't understand fully how Kpop culture is. I am a fan of only 1 group (and I've continuously limited myself to 1) but it's insane how quickly you can get attached to these people even if you don't mean to. You find a group, you listen to 2/3 song from them that caught you ear and before you know it you've grown attached. Yes, you've never met them and yes you don't really know them and I totally get your argument (I used to think the same way before I got into kpop) but with how deep the attachment is for some people I think its valid to express sympathy for these people they know before a victim they dont. And honestly I wouldn't be to sure about the "rich part" with how bad contracts are and how notorious the industry is for exploiting idols I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't very rich.
I think you're kind of strengthening my point about the parasocialness of it all. No matter how much music/content you've consumed by a person through a screen, you don't really know them just like you don't know the victims. Also I've been a Kpop fan for almost a decade so I fully understand what it's like to be a fan of multiple groups and feel like I 'know' the members when I obviously don't. Other than initial shock and disappointment, I don't feel sad or bad for myself or other fans. I'm moreso worried about what the victims are going through but that's just me.
I completely agree with you! Thank you for putting out this video. It’s so upsetting seeing SO many comments/fans talking about how harmed they are?! Like girlie this ain’t about you. I feel terrible for the victim and hope they get justice.
So I'm a psychologist, and i completely understand what you're saying and agree that people who are victimized should be centered and considered most, however my profession has taught me that isn't something we as humans easily do, and here's why. I forgot to mention I specialize in criminal psychology and abnormal behavior, so hear me out. I've had serial killer documentaries and articles shoved down my throat for years and even in cases where these killers mutilate many people for years, when its all said and done nobody talks about the victims They are treated as side characters in a movie about their demise. And we do this because these are people we dont know, and its much more stimulating to the brain to hear about the vile ways in which someone was murdered than to worry about a person who is no longer here. And we feel as though we need to understand where the victims went wrong and how we can act differently so we dont get the same fate. The victims in this case cannot be mentioned because they are minors. They will remain nameless and faceless, and should be. But in regard to what you said about victims not wanting to see people mourn taeil. That actually often provides comfort for the victims as it is the only way they can feel like their predator is getting what they deserve. They understand their perpetrator has lost support and that they have been disregarded as a result of their actions against the victims. Contrary to what they would need for recovery is seeing people defend taeil and promise they will continue to support him even after knowing what he's done. Dont let the reactions you're seeing bother you too much. It's the only way most people know how to handle this.
Thanks for watching and sharing your perspective! I also used to watch a lot of true crime but the lack of regard for victims and their families is what made me stop because I could tell I was being desensitized to the fact that they are real people not just stories for entertainment. I understand why it might be easier for people to connect with idols they feel they know, while it's harder to connect with victims who are often faceless and nameless. It might feel 'natural,' but my point is that parasocial relationships create an illusion of closeness that isn't as natural as it seems. Just because something feels 'natural' doesn’t mean it’s healthy or constructive-many behaviors considered 'natural' can actually be harmful and need to be unlearned. Normalizing this kind of reaction seems dangerous to me, but I know majority of people don't mean any harm and are just reacting in the moment. As for your second point, I’m not sure I agree. I can’t imagine how seeing fans mourn Taeil and express sympathy for the group members, while ignoring the victims, would be comforting. I do think outright condemning Taeil while supporting the victim might be a better approach, but that’s just my perspective. I’d love to hear from people who were victims in similar situations, though I know that’s unlikely.
I personally didn't feel "sad" or "betrayed" when the news first broke out. I was in shock at first, but then I was pissed off and disgusted that a woman was assaulted and instead of showing empathy for her, the first thing people did was either spread misinformation abt the case, which I am ashamed to say I initially believed as well, which forced the victim and the police to reveal more information about what exactly happened, which I can't even begin to imagine how triggering that was for her because she obviously wanted to remain anonymous & for her situation to remain confidential, or use the case for fanwar material to hate on the remaining NCT members. Even now, K-netz and other fandoms are accusing the police and SM of "covering up" the case just because we haven't gotten anymore updates, but none of these people are taking into consideration that all cases take time and it's also none of our business what exactly happened. But anyway. I agree with and understanr what you're saying, but I also feel like it's possible for nctzens to feel empathy for both the remaining members of NCT AND the victim.
0:35 THIS! Because why are people more focused on burning photo cards and spreading rumors and crying “oh I guess you can’t trust anyone now” why did you trust them before? People are so selfish because they are focused on how much time and money they spent, and not the actual living, breathing woman who was affected. It’s just sick honestly.
Honestly, I'm not surprised by the overwhelming majority of fans showing empathy and pity for themselves and the NCT members. I believe it's far easier to do that than to center the victim for these people. Particularly, because of how the news was first broken to us. "We have recently confirmed that Taeil has been implicated in a criminal case related to sexual crimes. We have discussed this matter with Taeil and it has been decided he will be removed from the group." Then to add to this, a lot of the members unfollowed Taeil, nothing else (like mentioning the victim's existence). The SM statement fully centers TAEIL and what HE did, but merely IMPLIES that there is a victim, a person who was affected by HIS actions. And while yes, it is a given that most sex crimes are committed against another person, phrasing still matters. Simple word choices can have enormous effects on how one receives and interprets info. I'm pretty sure most kpop fans are young too, so they grew up in the digital age. An age where everything noteworthy or otherwise is sensationalized to grab our attention. It makes it easy to become numb to truly horrible things because they become mundane to us. It makes empathy difficult because we're more focused on the headline (which often involves the perpetrator) than anything else. It also doesn't help that the victim is faceless and nameless, making their inherent humanity (and existence) less apparent to the public. Nothing the police said afterwards, to provide context and give shape to this disembodied voice that cried out for help, could stop the boulder on its path downhill. None of this is an excuse btw. It's really just to show how this was inevitable. I hope the victim can find peace after this mess, and hopefully justice will actually be served cuz South Korea hasn't been on top of things for a while.
Thank you for commenting on this issue, there's way too much content circulating currently on this topic that is flat out lies and misinformation. I'm not sure if I necessarily fully agree with your point on not feeling bad for the rest of nct or people who were fans of him. I think it is possible to simultaneously feel great empathy towards the victim who suffered the most and also take into account that the members and people who biased him are feeling emotionally distraught. It in no way compares to what the victim had to experience and I sincerely hope the victim finds justice and Taeil gets the punishment he deserves, and I also worry how the members and his biggest fans might feel now. With that, I completely understand why you said what you did, because a large majority of the fandom seems to jump towards the “omg poor members oh no” conclusion rather than thinking about the victim first. What bothers me personally the most right now is fans treating this very serious situation like it's some mindless tabloid drama. It's the people making countless memes and posting hit tweets, using this case to gain clout instead of acting like a decent human being. It's some girl group fans (I say as someone who is both a gg and bg fan before someone jumps me) saying “that's why ggs are better, that's why you shouldn't stan bgs” to boy group fans as if we are the ones responsible for his abhorrent actions. Making this into a fandom war or into a “gg vs bg” war is absurd. It sadly repeats like clockwork every time anything serious happens because kpop fans don't care about the victims, they just latch onto literally anything, no matter how small or big the problem is and find a way to twist it into fanwars or “gotcha” moments. I am honestly so tired of it.
I completely agree with your second point. And it's why I feel so strongly about voicing my concern for victims only when it comes to this situation because instead it so quickly turns into meaningless fandom wars instead of bringing awareness to issues like abuse of power and sex crimes in Korea. To clarify my point in the video, I'm not saying that fans shouldn't feel sad at all, but it becomes weird and insensitive when we center that but never the victims which is majority of what I've seen on social media. And anyone is allowed to feel however they want, I just wanted to provide a different perspective to the discourse.
At the end of the day, a person is a person, famous or not. We can all cause harm to others at any degree. We shouldn't put K-pop artists on pedestals. Putting them there can blind people from the truth. It's a very dangerous thing to do, which is hard not to since artists tend to be people we admire and look up to. They are people we do not know, and we can't keep excusing inhumane behavior just because we have a preference for them.
Personally, I think it's way too soon to be commenting on this situation until we know exactly what the investigation is about. Right now, this is an alleged crime and we have no details so far except that it isn't related to "any minors of the same sex". It is surprising to me how little patience people have regarding these issues and how quick they are to make assumptions.
I feel like people are allowed to be upset and feel hurt/betrayed by the situation because it's awful, and can and HAS been very triggering for alot of people who have experienced SA. let them have that. but at the end of the day, the victim's happiness and safety matters more than anything else and that should be the main priority. not turning this into some fanwar or whatever
When did I say that SA victims aren't allowed to identify with this situation? I didn't and would never. I also never said that fans aren't allowed to be upset... You can do whatever you want. I said that I (ME) don't feel 'betrayed' or hurt and that fans who are making this about themselves and the groups/idols they 'stan' are weird. That's it.
@@lanislens no I agree with that and was never saying you said this. I was just putting this out as an objective truth, not to come at you specifically
@@teshi1424 So you didn't watch the full video and get my explanation on why I think it's important to have empathy for victims and center our support for them? But instead left a short essay about what you think I said and concluded that I am being insensitive because you don't like it and don't agree? I didn't discuss the details of the case and was as respectful to the victims as possible while advocating for them. I didn't know that advocating for victims and not contributing to sensationalization was insensitive.
For me i want justice for the victim more than anything else, also i can't deny the fact that taeil damaged everything also the fans trusted him like he's know to be the quiet and innocent guy the green flag obviously they are hurt but in time it will be well and for the group the reputation like it's not the same anymore like the members they are also disappointed but hopefully everyone affected by this will heal.for the victim is really hard for her but hope she also heals and get justice
When I first heard the news about him I was shocked but at the same time it’s like when will fans realize that 1:he messed up 2:he was under investigation 3:parasocial fans need to go outside and touch some grass just because they think he’s innocent doesn’t mean every single idol we favor is innocent as well 4:it’s done he’s out of Nct the members unfollowed him it’s done and he’s done 5:let it go and move on 6:not everyone we Stan or listen to is innocent 6:it’s done already that’s all I got to say but fans need to get a big grip and move on because the members did so can the fans and whatever was in the dark it came to the light
I am an nctzen but what Taeil did is gross and illegal. I am sad about the effect this will have on NCT as a group but the priority should definitely be on the victim. The fact that SM has removed him so quickly does lend to the idea that the allegations are credible. Honestly, it is mind blowing that people are willing to ignore these allegations and support him.
I feel like, I'll personally wait like a normal person until authorities said he did it to actually take action.otherwise I think we should all postpone activities praising him or letting him interact in group activities
I seriously cannot understand how people on the internet are SO devoid of nuance. Like... Why's it you should feel EITHER disappointed in Taeil OR feel empathy for the victims? You can feel all of these things AT THE SAME TIME. Why isn't this just standard procedure? Why are we acting like we aren't human beings able to feel a variety and mixtures of complex emotions? Is it just protagonist syndrome?
Who said it was either or and that you can't be disappointed? I sure didn't. In this video I advocated for the victims to be centered and prioritized because 95% of what I've seen online has been fans crying and taking down posters without any acknowledgement of victims. It's actually kind of funny that you are complaining about the lack of nuance and then condensing my 10 minute video into me saying you can't feel disappointed in Taeil and have empathy for victims.
@@lanislens literally not what I said? I what I said was not in any way criticising you or your video, in fact, I AGREE with you. I was criticising the people who actually spent all the time saying they were sad, disappointed or felt betrayed by Taeil specifically. Hence why I said "protagonist syndrome", people not giving the ACTUAL victims the needed attention, or plainly ignoring them just because they're stans. You can do both, just focus on what matters.
@@Luna-rl5wu Thanks for clarifying! Sorry I got defensive. I've just gotten a few comments where people were misconstruing my words and saying I was saying they can't feel bad about the situation.
@@lanislens don't worry! It's the internet in the 2020s, everyone's defensive. And everyone should feel bad, it's a horrible situation, why shouldn't we feel anything? Be it for the victims or as fans, things need to be taken rationally, but giving up on emotion completely isn't the answer. I loved the video, by the way!
I don’t think that you saying you don’t feel bad for anybody but the victim is a bit short sighted. I am an older KPop Fan. So I’ve lived a lot longer on the planet and have learned a lot of things you haven’t yet. I am an NCtizen. While Taeil wasn’t my bias, you know what that might not be completely true. I’ve never picked a bias because they are 50 eleven members. But I was a fan of Taeil. I thought he was immensely talented and he seemed to interact well with the other members. But this situation with him is making me feel some kinda way because SM KICKED HIM OUT!!! I’m not entirely sure I even want to know what he did that SM cut ties. While I absolutely understand your sentiment and you are 100% right and we should think about the victim, I ask which victim? There are a lot of victims of Taeil Moon right now. There are many victims out there right now. Just because there is a person out there he hurt worse, that doesn’t mean those people who he was their ult bias are violated by him as well. And showing kindness to people who are hurt isn’t a bad thing. We don’t know at this time what exactly his crime is. I have a feeling when what exactly happened comes out, they’re all going to be hurt again. This will affect them all. Some of them might not be able to trust people again. Or they’ll question what’s wrong with them that they were attracted to someone like him. Life is not black and white. While I can be sad for them, and NCT, I’ll be most sad to his victim/victims. Because whatever this is it’s gonna be really really bad.
asking ‘which victim’ and implying that fans are victims too when someone is actually the victim of a literal sex crime is so CRAZY. you might be disappointed but that doesn’t make you a VICTIM?!
@@lanislens oh I’m not a victim. If he committed a crime and he actually raped someone. Fuck him hit him with a car I give zero shits. But there are young female fans in all fandoms. Are you an American? Because here in America it’s innocent until proven guilty. So far the only thing we know is he was went in for questioning. And is fulling cooperative with a police. Me thinking it’s not okay to tell young girls they have no right to grieve who they thought was a good person and maybe their first crush ever. They are victims too. But I’m old enough to probably be your mom. I know you’re going to look back and regret being so callous.
Hey let me tell you something before you start spouting nonsense and accusing. TAEIL Drama first Taeil is innocent second I am with Taeil even if all the members gather people against him I am with Taeil do you understand Thirdly, Tail did nothing. The plan will work. People will really know about his innocence. Tail.
To be honest; we dont really have much information besides the fact that Taeil was booked for the investigation since June but SM didn't know about this until mid August and immediately removed him from the group; and that the victim is an adult female. Oh and also that the police have been investigating this case since June (and have found strong evidence which is why Taeil is being interrogated now). To claim that "Taeil did nothing wrong" isn't something you should confidently say; especially since all the facts of this case is still ongoing.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
TO CLARIFY! I'm not saying that you as a fan should not feel upset or disappointed that your favorite idol did something bad. Anyone is allowed to feel however they want, I just wanted to provide a different perspective to the discourse. I personally find it weird and insensitive when majority of the online posts about this situation are about our feelings as fans when we could be centering the victims and offering them support instead of making it about ourselves as fans or other idols/groups. I understand that having empathy for both is possible, but I barely see any support for the victims which is unfortunate, and I wanted to call attention to it.
u should pin this!
Honestly I feel bad for both the victim and NCT members, I show empathy for both.
exactly it doesnt have to be either or
I am not ashamed to say that I used to stan Taeil but what he did is beyond disgusting. I really really hope the victim is doing ok. And what really hurts the most is how less concern and support people are showing towards the victim rather they are busy fighting about weather their idols are good or not and how we don't know our idols. I'm shocked and disappointed towards these kpop stans. Really hope the victim gets the justice they deserve. I stand by the victim.
stans or not stans people making this situation about stanning, being a fan or who they are a fan of just want to feel better about themselves making this a superiority battle when it's literally only about being human, any person you know or don't know can do horrible things....
@@phosphenevision I 100% agree with you
This is so real. I haven’t seen a single thing about the victim or any show of empathy but the amount of people saying things like “I’m in shock” and “I found out and started sobbing” (because she was a taeil stan) is crazy and an overpowering voice in the situation
right! it's so weird to me and i can't believe its being normalized.
if i was raped and then saw people on social media be like "boohoo now i have to remove paper from my wall" i'd be pissed. although i think feeling empathy for other nct members and sm employees is fair in the sense that they could've become victims too.
Girl I step away from k-pop & some bs comes out. I hope the victim(s) get justice. I’m glad the sm took action and kicked him out.
We should always lend all our support to the victim (s ?) of course, just as you said, THEY are the ones whose life will forever be affected by these events, I totally agree. And I also agree that we should definetly think before posting things in social media, you never know whos gonna watch the things you put up. However, I dont know if im just mistaken what you meant because of your wording, but I feel like its a little insensitive to act as if we can't express sadness over this situation? Not towards Taeil, he deserves no empathy, but a lot of fans really did find comfort in the person that was shown in the screen, they had trust in him, and I feel like we should be allowed to mourn the person we thought he was. And I dont mean no offense, once again I am simply trusting the things the company shows us, but NCT SEEM more than just coworkers, theyve been together for 8 years, they have gone through a lot and they too have been affected by his actions, I feel like we SHOULD feel bad for them, their groups image has been tainted most likely for the rest of their career, itll weigh down heavy on their shoulders for a while. Of course, none of this compares to what the victim has gone through, I sincerely hope they get their justice. And some people online are so insanely weird, I hope they know the majority of nctizens are on their side.
I partially agree and think it's fine to be disappointed and upset by what's happened, but I think it's odd that majority of the empathy is being offered to the NCT members and NCTzens while support for the victims is made an afterthought or flat out ignored when I think it should be the priority. Like the group will definitely be affected and might feel deceived by Taeil but they are still going to be rich and famous and won't have the trauma that a victim will for the rest of their life. I just personally think its weird and parasocial to 'mourn' a person you don't actually know just because you liked their persona/art when a victim is mourning their actual abuse🤷🏾♀. Parasocial relationships make us think that's normal behavior when its not.
I also think that we as fans read into the members relationships (comes with forming parasocial relationships) and don't realize how much of their friendliness and affection is part of a performance and their image as a band. If they showed a more realistic coworker relationship, which I suspect most of them have off screen, fans would not be as invested.
@lanislens Thank you for answering ! You're honestly right, a lot of compassion is being shown for the fans and the members, when most of it should be directed towards the victim. It is being treated as an after thought in a lot of posts and tt videos who completely ignore the severity of the situation because they're more familiar with Taeil/NCT and the "drama/controversy" aspect of the news, hopefully you get what I mean because I'm not sure I can explain it well 😭. And although parasocial relationships can be and are extremely unhealthy, people liked and found comfort in Taeils persona, I don't mean that they should blast it all over social media for people to feel bad for them, while you may feel sadness and "mourn" the loss of your bias, that doesn't compare to the victims actual, very real abuse and what they may feel upon seeing such reactions, I meant that it's not wrong to feel that way, that you shouldn't feel guilty yknow.
And I do agree about what you said about the members relationships, they probably aren't as close as they want us to think, thats the simple truth 🤷♀️. If they showed the behavior of simple coworkers then fans just simply wouldnt be as interested (since as you said, analyzing the groups bonds with each other comes with forming parasocial relationships which then means interest which then means more profit for the band/company) But I still think that even if what they show us on screen is most likely just a facade, they're probably still good friends behind the scenes, but that's just what I decide to believe, just my opinion. Once again thank you for answering, you're very well spoken :). Sorry for my rant and if it seems like I just repeated everything I said in my last comment 😭
Don't apologize! I really appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I think I'm an outlier when it comes to this topic so I don't expect everyone to agree but you were very respectful and willing to hear me out. Thanks for watching!
@@lanislensI get your point but I think you don't understand fully how Kpop culture is. I am a fan of only 1 group (and I've continuously limited myself to 1) but it's insane how quickly you can get attached to these people even if you don't mean to. You find a group, you listen to 2/3 song from them that caught you ear and before you know it you've grown attached. Yes, you've never met them and yes you don't really know them and I totally get your argument (I used to think the same way before I got into kpop) but with how deep the attachment is for some people I think its valid to express sympathy for these people they know before a victim they dont. And honestly I wouldn't be to sure about the "rich part" with how bad contracts are and how notorious the industry is for exploiting idols I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't very rich.
I think you're kind of strengthening my point about the parasocialness of it all. No matter how much music/content you've consumed by a person through a screen, you don't really know them just like you don't know the victims.
Also I've been a Kpop fan for almost a decade so I fully understand what it's like to be a fan of multiple groups and feel like I 'know' the members when I obviously don't. Other than initial shock and disappointment, I don't feel sad or bad for myself or other fans. I'm moreso worried about what the victims are going through but that's just me.
I completely agree with you! Thank you for putting out this video. It’s so upsetting seeing SO many comments/fans talking about how harmed they are?! Like girlie this ain’t about you. I feel terrible for the victim and hope they get justice.
So I'm a psychologist, and i completely understand what you're saying and agree that people who are victimized should be centered and considered most, however my profession has taught me that isn't something we as humans easily do, and here's why. I forgot to mention I specialize in criminal psychology and abnormal behavior, so hear me out. I've had serial killer documentaries and articles shoved down my throat for years and even in cases where these killers mutilate many people for years, when its all said and done nobody talks about the victims They are treated as side characters in a movie about their demise. And we do this because these are people we dont know, and its much more stimulating to the brain to hear about the vile ways in which someone was murdered than to worry about a person who is no longer here. And we feel as though we need to understand where the victims went wrong and how we can act differently so we dont get the same fate. The victims in this case cannot be mentioned because they are minors. They will remain nameless and faceless, and should be. But in regard to what you said about victims not wanting to see people mourn taeil. That actually often provides comfort for the victims as it is the only way they can feel like their predator is getting what they deserve. They understand their perpetrator has lost support and that they have been disregarded as a result of their actions against the victims. Contrary to what they would need for recovery is seeing people defend taeil and promise they will continue to support him even after knowing what he's done. Dont let the reactions you're seeing bother you too much. It's the only way most people know how to handle this.
Thanks for watching and sharing your perspective! I also used to watch a lot of true crime but the lack of regard for victims and their families is what made me stop because I could tell I was being desensitized to the fact that they are real people not just stories for entertainment. I understand why it might be easier for people to connect with idols they feel they know, while it's harder to connect with victims who are often faceless and nameless. It might feel 'natural,' but my point is that parasocial relationships create an illusion of closeness that isn't as natural as it seems. Just because something feels 'natural' doesn’t mean it’s healthy or constructive-many behaviors considered 'natural' can actually be harmful and need to be unlearned. Normalizing this kind of reaction seems dangerous to me, but I know majority of people don't mean any harm and are just reacting in the moment.
As for your second point, I’m not sure I agree. I can’t imagine how seeing fans mourn Taeil and express sympathy for the group members, while ignoring the victims, would be comforting. I do think outright condemning Taeil while supporting the victim might be a better approach, but that’s just my perspective. I’d love to hear from people who were victims in similar situations, though I know that’s unlikely.
I personally didn't feel "sad" or "betrayed" when the news first broke out. I was in shock at first, but then I was pissed off and disgusted that a woman was assaulted and instead of showing empathy for her, the first thing people did was either spread misinformation abt the case, which I am ashamed to say I initially believed as well, which forced the victim and the police to reveal more information about what exactly happened, which I can't even begin to imagine how triggering that was for her because she obviously wanted to remain anonymous & for her situation to remain confidential, or use the case for fanwar material to hate on the remaining NCT members. Even now, K-netz and other fandoms are accusing the police and SM of "covering up" the case just because we haven't gotten anymore updates, but none of these people are taking into consideration that all cases take time and it's also none of our business what exactly happened. But anyway. I agree with and understanr what you're saying, but I also feel like it's possible for nctzens to feel empathy for both the remaining members of NCT AND the victim.
0:35 THIS! Because why are people more focused on burning photo cards and spreading rumors and crying “oh I guess you can’t trust anyone now” why did you trust them before? People are so selfish because they are focused on how much time and money they spent, and not the actual living, breathing woman who was affected. It’s just sick honestly.
Honestly, I'm not surprised by the overwhelming majority of fans showing empathy and pity for themselves and the NCT members. I believe it's far easier to do that than to center the victim for these people. Particularly, because of how the news was first broken to us. "We have recently confirmed that Taeil has been implicated in a criminal case related to sexual crimes. We have discussed this matter with Taeil and it has been decided he will be removed from the group." Then to add to this, a lot of the members unfollowed Taeil, nothing else (like mentioning the victim's existence). The SM statement fully centers TAEIL and what HE did, but merely IMPLIES that there is a victim, a person who was affected by HIS actions. And while yes, it is a given that most sex crimes are committed against another person, phrasing still matters. Simple word choices can have enormous effects on how one receives and interprets info. I'm pretty sure most kpop fans are young too, so they grew up in the digital age. An age where everything noteworthy or otherwise is sensationalized to grab our attention. It makes it easy to become numb to truly horrible things because they become mundane to us. It makes empathy difficult because we're more focused on the headline (which often involves the perpetrator) than anything else. It also doesn't help that the victim is faceless and nameless, making their inherent humanity (and existence) less apparent to the public. Nothing the police said afterwards, to provide context and give shape to this disembodied voice that cried out for help, could stop the boulder on its path downhill. None of this is an excuse btw. It's really just to show how this was inevitable. I hope the victim can find peace after this mess, and hopefully justice will actually be served cuz South Korea hasn't been on top of things for a while.
Thank you for commenting on this issue, there's way too much content circulating currently on this topic that is flat out lies and misinformation. I'm not sure if I necessarily fully agree with your point on not feeling bad for the rest of nct or people who were fans of him. I think it is possible to simultaneously feel great empathy towards the victim who suffered the most and also take into account that the members and people who biased him are feeling emotionally distraught. It in no way compares to what the victim had to experience and I sincerely hope the victim finds justice and Taeil gets the punishment he deserves, and I also worry how the members and his biggest fans might feel now. With that, I completely understand why you said what you did, because a large majority of the fandom seems to jump towards the “omg poor members oh no” conclusion rather than thinking about the victim first.
What bothers me personally the most right now is fans treating this very serious situation like it's some mindless tabloid drama. It's the people making countless memes and posting hit tweets, using this case to gain clout instead of acting like a decent human being. It's some girl group fans (I say as someone who is both a gg and bg fan before someone jumps me) saying “that's why ggs are better, that's why you shouldn't stan bgs” to boy group fans as if we are the ones responsible for his abhorrent actions. Making this into a fandom war or into a “gg vs bg” war is absurd. It sadly repeats like clockwork every time anything serious happens because kpop fans don't care about the victims, they just latch onto literally anything, no matter how small or big the problem is and find a way to twist it into fanwars or “gotcha” moments. I am honestly so tired of it.
I completely agree with your second point. And it's why I feel so strongly about voicing my concern for victims only when it comes to this situation because instead it so quickly turns into meaningless fandom wars instead of bringing awareness to issues like abuse of power and sex crimes in Korea.
To clarify my point in the video, I'm not saying that fans shouldn't feel sad at all, but it becomes weird and insensitive when we center that but never the victims which is majority of what I've seen on social media. And anyone is allowed to feel however they want, I just wanted to provide a different perspective to the discourse.
At the end of the day, a person is a person, famous or not. We can all cause harm to others at any degree. We shouldn't put K-pop artists on pedestals. Putting them there can blind people from the truth. It's a very dangerous thing to do, which is hard not to since artists tend to be people we admire and look up to. They are people we do not know, and we can't keep excusing inhumane behavior just because we have a preference for them.
Personally, I think it's way too soon to be commenting on this situation until we know exactly what the investigation is about. Right now, this is an alleged crime and we have no details so far except that it isn't related to "any minors of the same sex". It is surprising to me how little patience people have regarding these issues and how quick they are to make assumptions.
I feel like people are allowed to be upset and feel hurt/betrayed by the situation because it's awful, and can and HAS been very triggering for alot of people who have experienced SA. let them have that. but at the end of the day, the victim's happiness and safety matters more than anything else and that should be the main priority. not turning this into some fanwar or whatever
When did I say that SA victims aren't allowed to identify with this situation? I didn't and would never. I also never said that fans aren't allowed to be upset... You can do whatever you want. I said that I (ME) don't feel 'betrayed' or hurt and that fans who are making this about themselves and the groups/idols they 'stan' are weird. That's it.
@@lanislens no I agree with that and was never saying you said this. I was just putting this out as an objective truth, not to come at you specifically
@@teshi1424 So you didn't watch the full video and get my explanation on why I think it's important to have empathy for victims and center our support for them? But instead left a short essay about what you think I said and concluded that I am being insensitive because you don't like it and don't agree? I didn't discuss the details of the case and was as respectful to the victims as possible while advocating for them. I didn't know that advocating for victims and not contributing to sensationalization was insensitive.
For me i want justice for the victim more than anything else, also i can't deny the fact that taeil damaged everything also the fans trusted him like he's know to be the quiet and innocent guy the green flag obviously they are hurt but in time it will be well and for the group the reputation like it's not the same anymore like the members they are also disappointed but hopefully everyone affected by this will heal.for the victim is really hard for her but hope she also heals and get justice
When I first heard the news about him I was shocked but at the same time it’s like when will fans realize that 1:he messed up 2:he was under investigation 3:parasocial fans need to go outside and touch some grass just because they think he’s innocent doesn’t mean every single idol we favor is innocent as well 4:it’s done he’s out of Nct the members unfollowed him it’s done and he’s done 5:let it go and move on 6:not everyone we Stan or listen to is innocent 6:it’s done already that’s all I got to say but fans need to get a big grip and move on because the members did so can the fans and whatever was in the dark it came to the light
I am an nctzen but what Taeil did is gross and illegal. I am sad about the effect this will have on NCT as a group but the priority should definitely be on the victim. The fact that SM has removed him so quickly does lend to the idea that the allegations are credible. Honestly, it is mind blowing that people are willing to ignore these allegations and support him.
I feel like, I'll personally wait like a normal person until authorities said he did it to actually take action.otherwise I think we should all postpone activities praising him or letting him interact in group activities
I seriously cannot understand how people on the internet are SO devoid of nuance. Like... Why's it you should feel EITHER disappointed in Taeil OR feel empathy for the victims? You can feel all of these things AT THE SAME TIME. Why isn't this just standard procedure? Why are we acting like we aren't human beings able to feel a variety and mixtures of complex emotions? Is it just protagonist syndrome?
Who said it was either or and that you can't be disappointed? I sure didn't. In this video I advocated for the victims to be centered and prioritized because 95% of what I've seen online has been fans crying and taking down posters without any acknowledgement of victims. It's actually kind of funny that you are complaining about the lack of nuance and then condensing my 10 minute video into me saying you can't feel disappointed in Taeil and have empathy for victims.
@@lanislens literally not what I said? I what I said was not in any way criticising you or your video, in fact, I AGREE with you. I was criticising the people who actually spent all the time saying they were sad, disappointed or felt betrayed by Taeil specifically. Hence why I said "protagonist syndrome", people not giving the ACTUAL victims the needed attention, or plainly ignoring them just because they're stans. You can do both, just focus on what matters.
@@Luna-rl5wu Thanks for clarifying! Sorry I got defensive. I've just gotten a few comments where people were misconstruing my words and saying I was saying they can't feel bad about the situation.
@@lanislens don't worry! It's the internet in the 2020s, everyone's defensive. And everyone should feel bad, it's a horrible situation, why shouldn't we feel anything? Be it for the victims or as fans, things need to be taken rationally, but giving up on emotion completely isn't the answer. I loved the video, by the way!
@Luna-rl5wu tysm!
I don’t think that you saying you don’t feel bad for anybody but the victim is a bit short sighted. I am an older KPop Fan. So I’ve lived a lot longer on the planet and have learned a lot of things you haven’t yet. I am an NCtizen. While Taeil wasn’t my bias, you know what that might not be completely true. I’ve never picked a bias because they are 50 eleven members. But I was a fan of Taeil. I thought he was immensely talented and he seemed to interact well with the other members. But this situation with him is making me feel some kinda way because SM KICKED HIM OUT!!! I’m not entirely sure I even want to know what he did that SM cut ties. While I absolutely understand your sentiment and you are 100% right and we should think about the victim, I ask which victim? There are a lot of victims of Taeil Moon right now. There are many victims out there right now. Just because there is a person out there he hurt worse, that doesn’t mean those people who he was their ult bias are violated by him as well. And showing kindness to people who are hurt isn’t a bad thing. We don’t know at this time what exactly his crime is. I have a feeling when what exactly happened comes out, they’re all going to be hurt again. This will affect them all. Some of them might not be able to trust people again. Or they’ll question what’s wrong with them that they were attracted to someone like him. Life is not black and white. While I can be sad for them, and NCT, I’ll be most sad to his victim/victims. Because whatever this is it’s gonna be really really bad.
asking ‘which victim’ and implying that fans are victims too when someone is actually the victim of a literal sex crime is so CRAZY. you might be disappointed but that doesn’t make you a VICTIM?!
@@lanislens oh I’m not a victim. If he committed a crime and he actually raped someone. Fuck him hit him with a car I give zero shits. But there are young female fans in all fandoms. Are you an American? Because here in America it’s innocent until proven guilty. So far the only thing we know is he was went in for questioning. And is fulling cooperative with a police. Me thinking it’s not okay to tell young girls they have no right to grieve who they thought was a good person and maybe their first crush ever. They are victims too. But I’m old enough to probably be your mom. I know you’re going to look back and regret being so callous.
#TAEIL Innocent
jaeil can go to hell 🥰
lmao sm wouldn't straight up kick him out and terminate his contract if the victim(s) didn't have solid enough proof, shut the fuck up
Hey let me tell you something before you start spouting nonsense and accusing. TAEIL Drama first Taeil is innocent second I am with Taeil even if all the members gather people against him I am with Taeil do you understand Thirdly, Tail did nothing. The plan will work. People will really know about his innocence. Tail.
Please take your medication
To be honest; we dont really have much information besides the fact that Taeil was booked for the investigation since June but SM didn't know about this until mid August and immediately removed him from the group; and that the victim is an adult female. Oh and also that the police have been investigating this case since June (and have found strong evidence which is why Taeil is being interrogated now). To claim that "Taeil did nothing wrong" isn't something you should confidently say; especially since all the facts of this case is still ongoing.
Keep your nonsense to yourself I say #TEAIL Innocent
Mind your shit
#TAEIL INNOCENT