That was a mind bender Ivan. The research sure aids in diagnostics but you have to know where to look. What I got from this video was some aids in where to find data. That was well worth the time spent here, thanks.
Amazing video I cannot wait for part two! I love these odd concerns that get you thinking outside the box because in the end when you fix it victory is even sweeter!
Yup I remember dealing with some of those Mitsu engine on the Chryslers back in the day. What surprised me is the evap monitor was run first whereas on the Fords it is the last monitor to run.
Dunno if anyone gives a shit but if you are stoned like me atm you can watch all of the new series on InstaFlixxer. Been watching with my girlfriend for the last weeks xD
Ivan, those early Chrysler's O2's heaters had direct battery current/voltage applied to them thru the auto shut down relay ( I believe ) controlled by the PCM. The amperage was controlled by a high resistance built into the heater's element. As the PCMs got more advanced which were constantly being upgraded, the ( same make and year ) could also have a O2 heater in which the O2's heater's amperage was controlled by the PCM with a PWM signal and the heater element had a much lower resistance. In most cases when a problem acted up after changing a O2 sensor, it was usually blamed on after market parts when in reality it was the wrong O2 that was installed for the application being used. It would be interesting to see the resistance readings between the two sensors heaters or better yet between the new and old sensors ?
Ivan, after thinking about it, I may have jumped the gun about saying this vehicle's O2s's heater's are powered up by the ASD relay, even though the wiring diagram I have shows this. The only real way to know if the wiring diagram is correct, ( short of the factory build/vin ) is to identify the PCM being used. This can be determined by looking at the amount of connectors and the amount of pins in the connectors on the PCM. Depending on which PCM you have will determine if the O2 heaters are PWM or not.
Hey Billy! Yeah on this one the heaters are powered from the ASD relay and have a constant ground. So that is a good point, there is no direct way for the PCM to check heater circuit integrity ;)
Merry Christmas Ivan. Thanks for the present of a video on Christmas day. Im going to throw out a guess and say aftermarket O2 sensors...looking forward to part two.
Pour some Seafoam down the brake booster hose, try the Scotty lacquer thinner trick, install rear O2 "cheater" extension, or replace Catalytic convertor.
Hey Ivan, I'm curious if you are using Mode 6. I have seen a few problem vehicles over the years that will not set a DTC but Mode 6 will show failures or near failures of a particular component. It is a very under utilized diagnostic aid.
I guess the guy doesn't know about the "guaranteed to pass" bottles they sell in the store... haha. can't wait for the next vid on this series. I agree that the cat doesn't look good at all, but you would have expected that to toss a MIL by now so you may be onto something with those o2 voltage readings. Merry Christmas, and thanks for giving us an upload! I'm out in the garage now.
I noticed you have used a lot of different scan tools, I'm trying to decide if i should update my snap on solus ultra, or invest that money towards a new one. Any recommendations? I do have a pico scope.
Snap On updates are generally a waste of money, unless you are running into really new cars and have no coverage. There are some cool scanners out there (Autel, Launch) that can be had for less than one Snap-On update!!
AM I looking at this wrong? But doesn't R stand for Rear O2 sensor and not right? A bad cat would explain the rear sensor following the front sensor then. Merry Christmas Ivan!
Staten Island=City driven car, weird O2 aside my first thought is that it hasn't been driven at highway speed long enough to complete- just a thought - good luck man
Recently read a very good article about O2 sensors, btw a direct result of watching this channel, Eric O's and Scanner Danners. One of the paragraphs read : Any O2 sensor that is defective obviously needs to be replaced. But there may also be benefits to replacing the O2 sensor periodically for preventive maintenance. Replacing an aging O2 sensor that has become sluggish can restore peak fuel efficiency, minimize exhaust emissions and prolong the life of the converter. I'm no expert, far from it, but sounds logical to me from what all I've learned here. I've seen this young man countless times make repairs that certainly appeared to save the customer money. I consider that admirable. I agree with his statement, and wouldn't hesitate to give him leeway on my vehicle. And I'm not trying to be argumentative as your question is reasonable. Just my two cents worth.
At 100,000 miles you should replace both front O2's as Preventative Maintenance. Eventually their going to set codes or fail in some way I have looked at failed sensors-- verse-- new & the only real difference, was slightly faster switching times & no MIL Lamp or Codes- which is what you want Like a failed Wheel Hub Brg or Ball Joint (You Do Both Sides) when one fails--Shops & Customers Don't--but I do--your there & the tools are out,so why go back again in a year so,or in the case of an ABS Sensor, if both sides are not the same brand, you may be in trouble with the data
This is classic Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge. They seem to do all they can to avoid setting codes, they fake oil pressure, etc. In this case it should have set an o2 and/or catalyst code rather than just mysteriously not completing the drive cycle. Chrysler products are the worst I've encountered for keeping you in the dark as to what's wrong.
That was a mind bender Ivan. The research sure aids in diagnostics but you have to know where to look. What I got from this video was some aids in where to find data. That was well worth the time spent here, thanks.
Looking forward to the fix. Nice to see Keith being a bit less camera shy. Thanks Ivan!
Amazing video I cannot wait for part two! I love these odd concerns that get you thinking outside the box because in the end when you fix it victory is even sweeter!
This one was a strange case study...one of the first OBDII systems, plus a mix of Chrysler and Mitsubishi hardware/software. Some research required!
Yup I remember dealing with some of those Mitsu engine on the Chryslers back in the day. What surprised me is the evap monitor was run first whereas on the Fords it is the last monitor to run.
Dunno if anyone gives a shit but if you are stoned like me atm you can watch all of the new series on InstaFlixxer. Been watching with my girlfriend for the last weeks xD
@Flynn Gatlin Yea, have been using InstaFlixxer for since december myself :D
Ivan, those early Chrysler's O2's heaters had direct battery current/voltage applied to them thru the auto shut down relay ( I believe ) controlled by the PCM. The amperage was controlled by a high resistance built into the heater's element. As the PCMs got more advanced which were constantly being upgraded, the ( same make and year ) could also have a O2 heater in which the O2's heater's amperage was controlled by the PCM with a PWM signal and the heater element had a much lower resistance. In most cases when a problem acted up after changing a O2 sensor, it was usually blamed on after market parts when in reality it was the wrong O2 that was installed for the application being used. It would be interesting to see the resistance readings between the two sensors heaters or better yet between the new and old sensors ?
Looked up the wiring diagram for this vehicle, the O2 heaters are powered up by the ASD relay ?
Ivan, after thinking about it, I may have jumped the gun about saying this vehicle's O2s's heater's are powered up by the ASD relay, even though the wiring diagram I have shows this. The only real way to know if the wiring diagram is correct, ( short of the factory build/vin ) is to identify the PCM being used. This can be determined by looking at the amount of connectors and the amount of pins in the connectors on the PCM. Depending on which PCM you have will determine if the O2 heaters are PWM or not.
Hey Billy! Yeah on this one the heaters are powered from the ASD relay and have a constant ground. So that is a good point, there is no direct way for the PCM to check heater circuit integrity ;)
Merry Christmas Ivan to you and yours.
Merry Christmas Ivan. Thanks for the present of a video on Christmas day. Im going to throw out a guess and say aftermarket O2 sensors...looking forward to part two.
Merry Christmas Ivan. Your case studies always make us think. Thanks for all the great videos this year.
Merry Christmas! I'm on the edge of my seat, with this one!! Everything looks good, except for those O2 sensor graphs!
Pour some Seafoam down the brake booster hose, try the Scotty lacquer thinner trick, install rear O2 "cheater" extension, or replace Catalytic convertor.
Merry Christmas, Ivan! This is definitely a strange case study; looking forward to seeing where it goes!
Nice case study & can't wait to see Part II! Merry Christmas Ivan!!
Iván, merry Christmas for you and your family 🎅☺
Interesting problem once again. I like the Eric O. style beard! Merry Christmas Ivan and Happy New Year!
The Disgruntled Mechanic
Where have you been? It's been a while that you put video up. I hope all is good.
I posted a new video Friday. Was side lined for a bit. Thanks for asking,
+AJ Osmani where are you from? Are you a mech?
Thats crazy I would think O2 would be first on the list to run. Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas Ivan and a prosperous New Year with some tricky videos
love your videos very informative , Merry Christmas to you and your family , keep up the good work .
That box you had attached to your Verus , I've seen them but not explained how to use them , interesting diognostic. Merry Christmas buddy.
I just plug that box in to see the pretty blinking Christmas lights...tis the season xD
motoYam82 HAHA ok lets see it in a vid, nobody has made a vid on the magic box. Does your channel take requests. LOL
***** Fantastic so I just have to get one for my Load Pro then. LOL
***** HAHAHA
If you get a NO COMM code when you press the MB then wiring is good haha
Looking forward to the fix on this one! I'd be yanking my hair out, lol.
Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and the family, Ivan!
Hey Ivan, I'm curious if you are using Mode 6. I have seen a few problem vehicles over the years that will not set a DTC but Mode 6 will show failures or near failures of a particular component. It is a very under utilized diagnostic aid.
Merry Christmas to you and your family ! 🎅🛵🚗🚜🚙😎
IVAN,thanks for the video MERRY CHRESTMAS.
merry Christmas to you and the family
I guess the guy doesn't know about the "guaranteed to pass" bottles they sell in the store... haha. can't wait for the next vid on this series. I agree that the cat doesn't look good at all, but you would have expected that to toss a MIL by now so you may be onto something with those o2 voltage readings. Merry Christmas, and thanks for giving us an upload! I'm out in the garage now.
Merry Christmas Ivan! this one looks like it has had the catalytic converter removed...
Beard's coming in pretty good, bro! :)
Merry X Mas to you & the fam. Have a happy 2017!!!Peace
Ivan merry Christmas those monitors can wait lol
Merry Xmas Ivan. 🎄🎄🎄
what a year Ivan
your one of my guys
can't wait to meet you
you Danner dr. o and me
jaja
I noticed you have used a lot of different scan tools, I'm trying to decide if i should update my snap on solus ultra, or invest that money towards a new one. Any recommendations? I do have a pico scope.
Snap On updates are generally a waste of money, unless you are running into really new cars and have no coverage. There are some cool scanners out there (Autel, Launch) that can be had for less than one Snap-On update!!
Merry Christmas
merry Christmas Ivan, watched a video on TST channel with Dr niall he said a jaggy o2 sensor can be caused by a leaky/faulty egr valve, cheers sandy
30 seconds in to this video the first thing that comes to mind is the KAM fuse.(Keep Alive Memory.) But I will watch both and see how you progress...
Wow those post cat 02's were hashed. Why did it not flash a P0420/0430.
I was wondering the same thing...
Merry Christmas to all. Ivan you're just decided to be Santa Claus. Dye your beard in white. :)
AM I looking at this wrong? But doesn't R stand for Rear O2 sensor and not right? A bad cat would explain the rear sensor following the front sensor then. Merry Christmas Ivan!
James Last no r and l are for right and left , upstream is before the cat and downstream is after the cat .
Staten Island=City driven car, weird O2 aside my first thought is that it hasn't been driven at highway speed long enough to complete- just a thought - good luck man
You can't use mode 6 data to see if a component is failing?
Beard looks good!
why put 2 front o2's in? when only one looked choppy? just wondering.
Just wanted a known-good baseline to start with.
why not just do the one? im not being a smart ass just wondering
Recently read a very good article about O2 sensors, btw a direct result of watching this channel, Eric O's and Scanner Danners. One of the paragraphs read :
Any O2 sensor that is defective obviously needs to be replaced. But there may also be benefits to replacing the O2 sensor periodically for preventive maintenance. Replacing an aging O2 sensor that has become sluggish can restore peak fuel efficiency, minimize exhaust emissions and prolong the life of the converter.
I'm no expert, far from it, but sounds logical to me from what all I've learned here.
I've seen this young man countless times make repairs that certainly appeared to save the customer money. I consider that admirable.
I agree with his statement, and wouldn't hesitate to give him leeway on my vehicle.
And I'm not trying to be argumentative as your question is reasonable.
Just my two cents worth.
phil holbrook
You will see in Part 2 :)
At 100,000 miles you should replace both front O2's as Preventative
Maintenance. Eventually their going to set codes or fail in some way
I have looked at failed sensors-- verse-- new & the only real difference,
was slightly faster switching times & no MIL Lamp or Codes- which is what you want
Like a failed Wheel Hub Brg or Ball Joint (You Do Both Sides) when one fails--Shops & Customers Don't--but I do--your there & the tools are out,so why go back again in a year so,or in the case of an ABS Sensor,
if both sides are not the same brand, you may be in trouble with the data
This is classic Chrysler/Jeep/Dodge. They seem to do all they can to avoid setting codes, they fake oil pressure, etc. In this case it should have set an o2 and/or catalyst code rather than just mysteriously not completing the drive cycle. Chrysler products are the worst I've encountered for keeping you in the dark as to what's wrong.
Yeah, if it doesn't like the O2 sensor, then why not set a freaking "slow response" code or something? Programming fail lol
Looks like that cat is toast. Was the cat hot at that point?