As a class 8 diesel tech, I have always wondered why Cummins uses a dedicated doser (injector) for the doc/dpf on their heavy duty engines and not the light duty ones. Just like you mentioned, it greatly reduces engine oil life by way of fuel dilution. We have had trucks in our medium duty shop that have injectors fail and due to the extra fuel during the regen cycle, the crankcase was over filled by up to 30% and took out the main bearings on the crank. So entire engines have been replaced because of the way they introduce fuel for regen on the small engines. Crazy! This was a good video man. 99% of the TH-cam vids on this topic are way off on their facts and-or terms.
+blake dymond Thanks man, I sincerely appreciate it. I apparently missed the mark on some things and am working on a pinned comment to correct those. Great info and thank you for sharing.
Erik B no idea how many miles were put on it. A tech in the medium duty shop was working on it and showed it to me. I work in the heavy line shop. I'm sure the driver put quite a few on it though. Most of them just drive company trucks until they stop running or derate and won't go but 5 or 15 mph. The guys that own their trucks are way more proactive. They come in as soon any light comes on, mpg drops, or they have to start adding fluids like they should. There's truck drivers and then there's seat warmers that can shift. Lol
you probably dont care but if you're stoned like me during the covid times you can stream all the latest series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my gf during the lockdown xD
A few comments Christian. Excellent video on the emissions system. While urea is a component of urine, DEF is NOT made from urine. The urea used in DEF is very carefully synthesized from natural gas. I believe you said DEF was 38% urea. It is actually 32.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water. It is very carefully made and very pure. I really liked your honesty about how well the complicated and expensive system works to keep our air clean. That is not said much in videos about diesel exhaust, efficiency, power, or longevity. Yours was a refreshing and important discussion. You pointed out the pluses and minuses very fairly. I have a 2017 Laramie crew short bed. I can honestly say that I have never experienced active regeneration in this truck min over 22000 miles. However, we put 99% of our miles on it towing either a gooseneck horse trailer at 10-12K pounds loaded, a flatbed hay hauler (usually with 5 tons on it), or our Outdoors Timber RIdge RV (shameless plug for an Oregon product) trailer which is about 7000+ pounds wet. I think our exhaust temps while towing make active regeneration unnecessary. I have driven this truck empty from Spokane to Fargo North Dakota (about 2400 miles RT) on less than 2.5 gallons of DEF when running empty and not pulling a trailer. When pulling the Outdoors RV TT it takes more than twice that amount. I was very surprised when I first discovered that DEF consumption rises dramatically when hauling heavy loads. DEF cost is still almost insignificant in the total cost of ownership. That said, this is the best truck I have ever owned bar none. It is my 5th Ram since my first in 1994. It is so comfortable and easy to drive even with a very heavy load. I cannot say enough good things about it. A truck just can't get much better. I just added Firestone air bags on the rear and Bilstein Shocks all around along with Bilstein dual steering stabilizers. I had Timbrens on the rear and was happy with them towing, but the ride empty was harsh. Not any more. Excellent upgrades to the ride and level towing ability for sure. Keep up the good videos. I stopped watching a while back and now I am catching up with the ones I missed. Good job on all of them. This was particularly good and necessary to balance some of the bad stuff out there.
This video has solidified my opinion to purchase the 5.9L Cummins 3rdGEN Dodge ram 2500 (05 to be exact I like that year of diesel rams) so that I don’t have to worry about deleting it as it comes stock that way and I don’t have to worry about all this DEF shih and the money that I saved on buying a luxurious truck like yours I can just spend a couple grand to redo the interior completely and make it an even more badass truck than what I could get off the lot.
Thank you for taking the time to put this together! It is certainly helping me as I move towards buying my first diesel truck. Debating between 2500 and 3500 dually.
+Alexios The Wretched Thanks man and glad to be of service. Dually is outstanding for towing heavy, heavy loads but they suck for everything else in my opinion. Just make sure you need it before you compromise
PNWreckage Thank you for the response! Certainly a lot to consider since I may not need it now, but hope I will need it in the (hopefully near) future. I intend to keep whatever truck I buy for a long time... anyways keep them videos coming! Appreciate the "tone" (sarcasm) and of course, your perspective/experience on the issues.
Hey man good vid. I’m one of those guys that ordered a brand new 2022 Cummins just because I wanted one. I have a 4700lbs boat I can tow around if I have to. The truck is going to be my daily driver I drive about 30km a day for work on the highway at 100km/h. Hope I didn’t make a 90k$ mistake
Fantastic info. Loved hearing both sides. I'm a female and have had my 2017 Ram 2500 since Dec. of 2016. I am fully committed to running it until it completely falls apart. I hope to have it at least another 20 years. Love my truck. I am a horse and agriculture gal too so I want to be good to the earth, but honestly I want to keep my truck running top notch even more. I'll offset my carbon footprint some other way. 😁 Also been having codes regarding the emissions system and after replacing the actuator, removing & cleaning the EGR valve and still getting new codes I am really considering deleting it. Next is to clean the turbo before making that decision. Since I only run my truck around town anymore for the last few years it makes sense that it is getting clogged up. At least now I understand why. 😊
We have a 2016 3500 with 22,000 miles now. I had the REGEN process happen once in the first 500 miles and it hasn't done it since. We tow a lot. I did have the service def system light come on once when we were driving through a national park all day at low speeds up and down hills with the exhaust break on. It turned off the next day so i didnt take it in. I go back and forth on whether to delete it or not as this will be my "forever" truck with ALOT of miles. NICE VIDEOS.
+Stephen Thank you for sharing this. If it's your forever truck (like this one is for me) then deleting is probably in your best interest. Not suggesting you do it tomorrow or anything but it's something I'm thinking about also. Thanks man
Nice video. I've had 2 Cummins trucks..a 1997 2500 and my current 2006 3500. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with emissions on,my truck, but im getting the fever for a new truck. I've gone so far as to test drive a couple. Man they are nice. Anyway nice video. Glad you aren't a total tree hugger and you like guns and diesels. Tennessee here. Take care
I have been looking at both gas and diesel new trucks. I believe that all of the emission controls on these diesels are an evolution in progress much like gasoline engines went through in the 80's and 90's. I have decided that currently there are too many over complicated "bandaids" on these new diesels. The odds of problems, cost of repair, and service of these diesel trucks is more than I want to risk at this time. I will probably buy a gasoline V8 for my next truck as it will meet my needs but it is not what I really want. The risk of problems, extra costs, time in the shop are too much of a gamble with my hard earned money.
Very good video. I did some of my own research before encouraging dad to replace the gasser F350 farm truck (which was a dog and which whenever I would tow with it, I had to have it screaming to make any hay) with a 2018 Ram 3500 chassis cab with Cummins engine, and I have become convinced that the modern diesel engines and the transmissions backing them are probably the most reliable of any era, and that the exhaust emissions would be the weak spot as far as reliability. However, we use this truck in a way that will generally minimize the amount of active regen that would be required. The truck has a 2,500 lb bale bed on it, with a 1,200 lb cube feeder on top of that, so when it is being driven, it is working. The truck will be driven slowly in the field, but there is a 45 mile highway trip from home to the field. So far, the only complaints that we have had is the DEF consumption, but I am pretty sure that the DEF tank was NOT full when we left the dealership, as we put some in during a trip last week. 1,500 miles on it so far, and so far, so good. I am like you... a bit of a tree-hugger, but I love diesel trucks and guns. IMO, the addition of all of this emission equipment should make people really consider whether they really need a diesel pickup whenever they are buying one, whether their normal usages of the truck is going to be something that will necessitate a diesel truck. If you just like the sound of a diesel truck, and you will not be doing much towing, but instead off-roading, you might be better off with a gasoline engine. If you are going to be towing in town with lots of stops, you are probably going to be better off with a gasoline engine. The gas engines in todays trucks are not bad engines in city driving, especially with the modern 6 speed transmissions and the low rear-end gear selections that are now available. My experience with pulling with a gasoline truck has been that take-offs have a surprising amount of alacrity in city environments, and it is only upon reaching highway speeds that it becomes significantly harder to keep speed than a diesel. If you are going to typically have a load on, traveling at highway speeds for a significant portion, you should probably have a diesel truck.
One BIG thing I didn’t hear you say everyone should try too do . When it is in Active or Passive Regen LET IT FINISH do not turn off the truck , you can tell it’s in one by the sound or if you have a monitor watching exhaust gases rise over 900deg . Turning it off causes issues
Good informative video. I drive a 2017 Ram 3500 with the 800 ft/lb version Cummins and 68RFE transmission. I recently got a Bluetooth code reader and OBDFusion iPhone app. This lets me monitor all 5 (yes 5!) EGT sensors. I just towed my 15,000 lb 5th wheel trailer to 10,500 ft in Colorado, as well as a lot of other serious climbing in the last week since I got the app. At 60 - 65 mph I am seeing temps of 750F to 850F on average, even when pulling serious hills. On very long hard 6 degree grades, I still never saw higher than 940F, and that was just for a moment or two. So in my experience, it is pretty hard to get up to passive regen temperatures of 950F, even while towing heavy in the mountains. These temps are from the first of the 5 EGT factory probes, and I don't know how close to the cylinder it is. The app also lets me see the EGT downstream at various points, so I can monitor it while it is in regen. I have only seen it in regen once since getting the app, and the temps at the DPF were around 1050F at the highest. And if the OBDFusion app had not told me it was in regen, I never would have known. It was imperceptible.
"Diesel Exhaust Fluid Fluid" :P Really thorough explanation. You covered pretty much everything I think. Like you said the whole thing is a balancing act: Too hot and you get NOx (NO1 and NO2). Too cold and you get DPM (Soot). All of these systems do a great job of balancing that out to reduce both kinds of emissions, it's just a shame you have to strangle the engine, dirty-up the intake and oil, dump your unburned fuel, and repeatedly purchase cow pee to do that. Also the cost of replacing a faulty DPF is more than the cost of a full delete, which I think is I think a pretty common trigger for people to go down that road. If you are ever concerned about getting caught with a deleted truck on a trip somewhere, there are stealth kits available. It's basically a straight pipe but shaped like it still has the DOC/DPF/SCR intact. Some come with block-off plates for the EGR, but still have to leave that giant-ass cooler in your engine bay even though it can't be used. Some just rely on the tuner to keep the EGR valve closed, but then you take the risk of it getting knocked open somehow while the system isn't functioning. Either way, it'll pass a visual inspection if a cop decides to stop you and look under the truck. **Edit:** Apparently I've gone crazy. Doesn't look like there are stealth exhaust kits for sale - people either hollow out their own or get a spare exhaust from a junkyard and hollow that out instead.
Oxides. NEVER Dioxides! What bothers me the most is the fact that class 8 trucks are not as regulated as the personal diesel owner. It's the lobbyist group that get the pass, but not the citizens.Again, all politically driven rules.
+E. Simons NO2 is Nitrogen Dioxide and is part of the NOx family. Maybe you were agreeing with me and I missed it. The whole mess is more than annoying
Not bashing on your video or you, just correcting. Nitrogen oxides, more commonly known as NOX is, as you stated, a byproduct of heat during the combustion process. Egr, is the process of taking exhaust gas from the manifold, pre turbo, and routing it back into the inlet manifold. Exhaust gas is inert. That is why they use it. The inert exhaust gas is cooled via the egr cooler then introduced back into the combustion chamber to cool the combustion chamber. Which reduces NOX.
Good video and about as objective a one as you're going to get on this topic. I like how you point out the possible reliability issues with emissions intact but still acknowledge that they do greatly curb emissions relative to previous generations of diesel engines. The legality of deleting is pretty straight forward...it's not allowed by the EPA, but different states have different approaches when it comes to enforcing and supervising that. I don't like the complexity of modern diesels, but I also acknowledge that progress needs to be made on dealing with their emissions. Kind of like the EPA's regulations on gasoline engines and fuel quality back in the 70's and 80's, I imagine there will be growing pains with diesel emissions technologies. But I hope that over time they will become more reliable and less expensive to maintain or fix. Here in the US, diesel owners and enthusiasts cringe at the EPA's stance on diesel emissions, but go look overseas (e.g. Europe) where for the longest time they had few, if any, regulations on diesel emissions and the air quality in their cities has suffered horrendously (they also have a lot more diesel passenger cars than what we have here in the US). I'm torn on longterm ownership of a modern diesel. I'd like to minimize my environmental footprint, but I also don't want to have to pay for a new exhaust system (and potentially a major engine overhaul) 100k-150k miles into ownership. What I would really like to see from Cummins and other diesel owners is longterm feedback on how the emissions, and engine reliability, fares over the longterm (150k miles and beyond). It sounds like the newer diesel engines (2013+ for Cummins) are much better at managing the EGR and DPF active regen's and also get better mpg's than what the earlier versions were getting. All that said, the 2013+ Cummins are still young, relatively speaking, and I'd like to see how they're doing 5-6 years from now with several hundred miles on the odometer. BTW, PNWreckage this isn't all directed at you. Mostly this is just me airing out my thoughts on the topic. Though if you do end up keeping your Ram for the longterm, I hope you continue to make videos and keep us posted on its reliability.
+Kevin P Fantastic comment and it never came across as you yelling at me, lol. The plan is for this to be my forever truck and I will keep everyone updated as my ownership progresses.
There's a guy over on the Turbo Diesel Register forum who just turned over 600k miles on his 2012. Uses it for hauling cars. www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/259082-600k-miles-2012-Ram-3500-Laramie-longhorn
The point kinda is that he reports he is still on the original engine and turbo, and none of the stuff he's had to replace due to wearing out or failing have been emissions related. I should have been more clear on that.
Charles, that gives me additional confirmation that the newer emission systems are in fact more reliable and longer lasting. You hear about a lot of horror stories with the 2007.5-2010 Ram 6.7's, but a lot those issues had to do with heavy EGR and DPF regen tempo's. It seems that the newer emission systems have seen optimization in the ECU programming and the addition of the DEF (SCR catalyst) has relieved a lot of the previous issues. Also, driving habits seem to play a huge role. The guy you referred to with 600k hauling cars probably hasn't had any issues keeping the DPF functioning and healthy, whereas someone driving primarily in stop-and-go traffic might be more likely to have issues. A lot of owners have indicated that getting on the highway on a regular basis allows for more passive regen's (as opposed to active regen's requiring fuel injection) of the DPF. Honestly, it seems that unless you are using your 6.7 to navigate traffic-jammed city streets on a daily basis, an owner should have little to no issues with an emissions-intact diesel. Also, deleting an older 2007-2010 6.7L cummins seemed to improve mpg's (due to the previously mentioned EGR and DPF cycles); I'd be interested in seeing how much of an mpg improvement, if any, was realized by deleting a newer 2013+ 6.7L Cummins.
A new 6.7 power stroke has emissions equal to 24 2002 7.3 powerstroke. This was told to me by a ford tech at a dealership last spring while I was still driving Fords not Rams. Even if the guy was not completely accurate the bottom line is that the new trucks are very very clean. I thought the sane as you and this was the answer I got from a ford tech.
Taxes are collected by the gallon on diesel. Less efficiency and less mpg equals a truckload of additional taxes collected for big government. That's what they truly care about.
I know it's an old response, but the answer depends on the vehicle. On the 2013 and newer Cummins, there's hardly a fuel economy penalty with the emissions. There's a very very slight increase in CO2 production, but running without the emission equipment results in around a 100x increase in PM. The testing by CARB shows that the PM in the 2018 and newer Cummins is less than that of a Prius.
Hey PNWreckage, great videos man. Very informative. I am buying a 2018 in the coming months and will be using a lot of the pointers you have said. I have a question, you may have answered this in one of your previous vids but what do you do for work?
+Dustyn Journigan hey man congrats on your upcoming purchase. My employer prohibited me from mentioning what I do for a living on this channel, which is unfortunate. Sorry if that sounds evasive, definitely not my intention. I am curious what your guess would be though!
PNWreckage well there are thousands of guesses! Considering how much you say you drive on a daily basis I would guess that you either work in the city and commute to work or have a position that requires you to travel to multiple locations.
+My Fish Life that was a big part of it. I just didn't have the need for more payload at the expense of ride quality.. and options.. and more money lol
I’m not one who considers myself an environmentalist or one who believes in man made climate change. But I can definitely appreciate the benefits of emissions equipment. It’s really not a big deal when out in the country, as the exhaust disperses quickly and the crap will naturally settle out of the air and or break down. In large towns or cities, where you have a lot more vehicles crammed onto the road, you could easily choke people with all that crap in the air! I live in Denver, and just bought a 2013 Ram Cummins, I’m gonna leave the thing stock, and every time I refill the DEF tank remember I don’t have to wash soot off the side of my truck!
Glad I found this vid. I was planning on doing a delete on my ‘16 Cummins but I’m gonna hold off as I’m planning on getting a newer one. I hope I can find a sap to buy this def hog though.
Say you modified your exhaust to improve the efficiency, what do you do about the extra injection of diesel into the exhaust stream? You also mention software upgrades, are these automatic or are they done at the dealer?
PNWreckage what brand do you use for your DEF all the time? Been thinking about Mopar not sure what to do for brand. Don't want to give the dealer any excuse for warranty issues.
The EPA has accomplished nothing by forcing manufacturers to design and install these systems. If they really cared about the environment the first consideration should have been to reduce diesel consumption. The diesel engine (pre-DPF system bullshit) was already much more full efficient than the gasoline. If a truck uses much less fuel without these systems then it is a huge win for both the environment and the individual who owns the vehicle. The DPF system has added thousands to the cost of the vehicle, increased maintenance costs and increased potential catastrophic failures , decreased engine performance AND decreased fuel economy. One does not have to be a scientist or engineer to understand this. Do the simple math. Bottom line: the very high cost of these systems has completely destroyed any marginal reduction in greenhouse gases. The EPA wrecks everything it touches! I'm ripping my DPF system out as soon as the warranty is expired.
I live in a city environment, LA County, and I don't tow anything (yet). So I would accumulate all the soot very quickly? Also do I need to purchase the engine warmer or does it come with it?
+Shane Bartlett the block heater is an option but you probably wouldn't use it much in your area😉 Soot would depend on your drives and whether you run it long enough to achieve passive regens. What do your drives look like?
Thank you for the informative videos. We are shopping for 2500 and would love the Cummins however, in Suburban Chicago we have to pass emissions to get tags so I don't believe there would be any way around deleting. Unless you know otherwise?
I realize I'm responding after a year. Illinois doesn't have emissions testing for diesels, at least not yet. If you get a class d truck you'll need to get a safety inspections every six months.
I got a brand new 2020 dodge2500 sport 4x4 with the Cummings and on my way to a wedding a few weeks after getting it i had smoke coming thru the air vents and the smell of something burning, it hasn't done it since then but wondering if i should be worried?
PNWreckage umm I've never heard it called a tuner but let's say yes for understanding sake lol. It was actually pretty informal for as long as it is. Made me think about certain things so I know what to expect
+Shane Bartlett lol I think we're on the same page with tuners and chips, and yes those can make a HUGE difference! Like enough to grenade your transmission potentially with just a tuner. I was worried about the length but I'm not super formal as you have probably gathered haha. Hope it was helpful.
Good video and thanks for the info....I feel lucky as crap...my DEF consumption on my 2018 2500 is about 3 gallons every 7500 miles.... don't plan on doing any deletes for a while, my dealership offers a 20 year 200,000 mile warranty; so I will wait until I hit one of the marks then play
I had a Cummins and here is the deal: they don’t tell you that this engine will start clogging up the day you drive it with soot. After 15K miles my engine performance went way down sluggish and non responsive. My engine also got a lot louder on the top end valve train. So with the black smoke now going back into the crank case oil - when you do a oil change and after 100 miles that new oil is black like tar looks horrible. You have to use synthetic oil with new def changes so you will need to buy an oil change plan or pay $180 per change. Then you have fuel filters to change ever 15K miles. If your DEF emissions plugs up it may be covered under warranty but you truck will be shop for a while. Also don’t forget about the67,000 service that is $1500.. if you are out of warranty between your under the hood emissions and under the truck exhaust dpf regeneration you can easily pay 1000 of dollars on repairs and part. A turbo replacement is like $7000.00. Injectors replacement are $8000-$13000. I sold me Ram Diesel at 15K miles and went back to a 1500 and love it.
Great Video. I have a 2015 6.7 Cummins with 15,000 miles on it. So far I've had 2 active re gens during that time. I try to do as few short trips in my truck as possible. I absolute love my truck and for the money it beats (IMO) Ford and Chevy. After watching a few of these videos, I'm started to get concerned that maybe I should have brought one with a gasoline engine instead. My whole reasoning for buying a diesel was because they last a long time. I hope I didn't make a mistake. I plan on keeping this truck for 20 years.
I'm not too up to date on the whole deleting thing haha. I live in CA and I would not want a "comrade" from the air pollution board paying me a visit in the middle of the night ;-). I'll check out some of the deleting videos and see what that entails.
dont buy the hemi 6.4 - i just ordered a tradesman 2500 cummins. i get 10 mpg with the gasser. spending 320 month on gasoline stinks. have an old 5.9 cummins 2500 and drive that more than the 16 hemi. cheers.
You didn't make a mistake at all. Either put some cash aside for future repairs on the emissions system or delete it. Main thing is to try to be pro-active and keep up on cleaning the EGR valve often, keeping all filters replaced often, oil & fuel filters changed evry 10k miles and run your exhaust brake ALL the time. It keeps that emission system cleaned out.
Have you had any issues with the emissions system in your ownership? This is one of my main worries in purchasing a newer truck just like yours. Other than driving habits can a guy do anything to prevent issues
Liqui Moly makes a DPF cleaning gun and wand that can clean out your DPF pretty well. They have videos of cleaning car DPF's in Europe. Part #'s are 7945 & 7946. The cleaning fluid part #'s are 20110 & 20112. I think you can order them through AutoZone. They buy it from a vendor called IMC.
Hey PNC, I have commented a few times to your very informative and well presented videos. I now have 19K miles in 7 months on my 2017 RAM 3500 SRW Limited with Aisin. I have been adding a 2.5 gallon container of DEF about every 4K miles. I only got down to the warning light once. I drive with automatic exhaust brake all the time. I am in southern California so I drive 50/50 split highway and city. I cannot detect when a regen is happening? I had one less than favorable tank of fuel only yielding about 15mpg at around 15K on truck, so can I assume my truck went through an unnoticeable passive regen during that tank? I normally average 17-19mpg combined city and highway, and get as much as 22mpg highway while driving to Colorado and back to visit my daughter. I am a diesel newbie so I am not sure if these trucks require the regular California "smog" checks in order to get registration renewed. Does deleting the DEF system affect a smog check if so required? I can only assume it does. I look forward to your reply. Thanks!
Hi! Fellow Californian here. Yes, you will have to smog every other year due to CA's uptight emissions laws. It's illegal to delete your truck here. I have heard it also depends.on your county. Some do not have the same restrictions and you don't have to smog. Now, are cops going around looking for you if you delete your truck? No. But it being illegal is a factor to consider. If you do have to smog in your county then that is another consideration. Can the smog thing be gotten around? Well, I'm just going to say that I know a few people who have deleted their trucks and still pass smog so....??
I only live about 20 minutes from work. That being said, do you think I would be better off getting the 6.4 Hemi? I would eventually be doing some towing, but mostly daily driving.
+Holly Taylor my truck runs No.2 highway diesel perfectly, and it also runs B20 20% biodiesel perfectly. The power and mileage have always been great but I've heard of people being big fans of certain additives.
I have a 2015 Cummins and it is not using any DEF. Gauge remains in full after driving 1000 miles. I have never experienced a regen. Any suggests as to what could be cause?
Add a gallon of DEF. if it won’t all fit, you’re not using DEF……not normal. If it takes it, then your gauge is wrong. I use about 1 gallon of DEF per 300 miles. In my case, it should go 1800 miles from full to empty.
I just purchased a 2014 dodge ram 5500 hd *emissions deleted* my husband overlooked that before we purchased it! We are starting our hot shot business and we literally can't run the truck with out one! Needed too know how/or what she we do about replacing or adding one
i’ve seen in the 2019 ram 2500 diesel owners manual that a parked manual regen can be performed, if so short daily (city) driving shouldn’t be a problem, or would it?
I think only chassis cab models offers that option. I’m not sure why they don’t offer that for other models. It seems like it would be a great option. Really sucks that you can pay $50-$60,000 for a truck and still can’t drive it around town or take it for short drives without leading to engine trouble.
I find your videos interesting because I am trying to decide what truck to buy. I am thinking about a 1ton BigHorn DRW for hauling a 5000 lb camper. I will always have a camper on the truck. I have car for to day use. I am wondering about whether it is worth the hassle and cost of getting a diesel for only 5000lb vs a Hemi. I can't justify a diesel but gas 1tons are as rare as unicorns. I am across the river in Vancouver, WA. Gong to Costco today to see what their buying service can do.
i deleted my 2016 at 3k never looked back at 17k now running like a champ..... if and when i ever get another its going from the dealership to the shop to be deleted.....
I'm at 65k miles on my 16' Ram 3500. I send oil samples to the lab about every third oil change and have never had fuel show up on the report. Is this an exception to the rule or is the discussion of oil dilution from the emission system BS? Has anyone claiming oil dilution by the emission system offered data in the form of a lab report? I'm not arguing for or against any of the data discussed, I just like to see the numbers to back up points brought up in the discussion below.
My state requires inspections in order to register and renew license tags, so anyone who deletes their truck will be unable to renew their registration or sell their truck.
i want a 2019 ram 2500 6.7l cummins, i don’t know much about diesel, how would this truck do as a daily driver/short trip truck, 6 miles to work and 6 miles back home? long trip once a year no towing.
I would not go for the Cummins with what you've described. It literally would not warm up fully during your drive to/from work and most people who have similar commutes have expressed a higher incidence of problems with theirs. If I were in your shoes I would look long and hard at a Power Wagon for 2500 or the 1500 if that looks like overkill. Let me know if that doesn't make sense
Dumb Q?.. Why an auto rather than a manual? Both are 6-speed. Heard less problems w/manual vs auto trans (Granted. "old" body styles :94-02) I have an '01 1500, 5.2/318 gasser w/a manual,. and would KILL for a "newer" gasser w/ manual. Consistent 14-16 gpm on 60 mile day/6 day-week work run. Are the "new" autos that much improved from the older gens? PJ
+pjf1313 I was thisssss close to getting a manual. Reviews are a mixed bag when it comes to tuning and reliability. Some are bulletproof and others explode when you're goosing it out of a parking lot. We tow horses and the shifts are harder on them with a manual. I'm also a huge fan of the full length center console but that's low on the list. The warranty is a bit odd with the G56 also, from what I can remember. Not a dumb Q by any means!
Thanks for your input! I'm looking for a "newer" full-sized p-u with a manual, and Dodge is the only one that offers that. Been driving manuals since the mid '70's and don't want to stop now.. We don't tow live loads, but more "dead" weight - tractors, generators, construction supplies/equipment, so that jarring is not as much as a problem (a hunk of metal ain't gonna complain much;-) ). Thanks, P.J.
The Cummins is derated if you get the MB G56 transmission to a maximum of 660 lb/ft of torque (theoretical rating of the manual transmission is thought to be around 700 lb/ft). If you are getting a 3500, you would be better off as far as towing capacity with an Aisen transmission and the high output Cummins engine. With the 4.10 gears, you get a max tow rating of 30,000 lbs with dual rear wheels, and even with the 3.42 gears, you will have a capacity of around 20,000 lbs. With the 3.73 gears, your manual transmission will only have a towing capacity of around 18k lbs. If max torque is not a make or break deal, and it is between the G56 manual and the 68RFE auto (non-high output), then the difference with the 3.73 gears is going to be negligible. If you are getting a 2500, the Aisen is not an option, the reduction in tow capacity with the manual transmission will be negligible. You are still going to be reduced to 660 lb/ft of torque. As an aside, the G56 transmission comes from Chrysler with automatic transmission fluid as its lubricant. Very odd considering that the same transmission from MB has a more traditional lubricant in Europe. Something to consider if getting a manual transmission. Many people have swapped fluids. The gear oil that is used in other parts of the world is going to have a harder shift than the ATF. Some people swear by the gear oil though.
+Shane Bartlett expect to get the dash message to drive at highway speeds for 20 minutes or so because your DPF is nearing capacity. Also expect way more active regens and a reduction in fuel economy.
Thank you for a very informative video. Got my questions answered about the regen procedure. Also- can't help but laugh as I see you wearing a 'Portland' shirt and saying "make us hate this place a lot more in 50 years". _ Didn't take that long, did it? 😀
man, I want to delete my 2017 on order but my 15 did fine not deleted. For me when I buy a new truck warranty is a huge thing and if I don't have that I would be back to buying. A old 5.9 and dumping money into that. anyways from Hillsboro,OR good to see some local video's.
"Oxides of Nitrogen" is the correct technical term term for what is produced in Diesel Exhaust, not Nitrous Oxide. Best not to keep calling it Nitrous Oxide, harder to keep the two separate when you keep calling it Nitrous Oxide. There is only one kind of Nitrous Oxide, and only one kind of Oxides of Nitrogen. Just wanted to clarify that for you since you seem quite knowledgeable on the DPF Regeneration subject as a whole.
I used to know of a system particular to your cummings application.For the life of me I can't recall it just now! Let me think about were I've seen this B4 and will get back to you.
This is why you buy a ‘17 and newer ford, they are the only manufacturer that offers a manual regeneration, it’s called OCR, operator command regen, for us city drivers! We can perform a manual regeneration in our driveway, suck it Ram and Chevy!
I didn't make this about my opinion or about political stances, which I said at least 4 times during the video. Did you watch it or just make assumptions?
1/ Cummins builds engines for work, not play. RAM needs to educate buyers better on how to operate. Short trips and idling are considered severe duty. imho, "lugging" should be added to this definition. The CTD needs to be run for long periods at 1800 rpm and above, as this ensures proper combustion and least particulates, thereby reducing regens to minimum, and thus preserving the engine oil. If this is not your driving habit, perhaps a gasser is a better option. 2/ Alternate technologies have been developed and proposed to eliminate particulates. I know, as I was a member of a team. But they are not as convenient for drivers as the DPF, so no market appeal to lazy people. Such tech does provide greater air flow, and thus greater power. 3/ Another factor is the quality of fuel, which is rather low in the USA. Instead of placing the onus on consumers, the EPA should be pressuring oil companies to produce a better, more refined fuel. The quality of fuel greatly determines the exhaust components.
PS. a better, 8-speed tranny would help greatly to ensure optimum rpm band when operating in highly variable conditions. proper gearing could enable a smaller engine, thus improving fuel economy and reducing emissions overall. power to the ground is what matters most. again, nobody wants to build a perfect truck, as this would kill their future sales, not to mention less profits for oil cartel.
I didn't even know about this like imagine being told you didn't drive your truck hard enough due to that your exhaust never was hot enough to do its job that'll be 3k-5k oof
Incorrect. At higher speeds and higher temps one’s engine is producing the least NOx. The greatest NOx emissions occur below 25 mph. That’s from Cummins own studies. At 25mph one can readily produce more than 5 times more NOx than cruising at hwy speeds. Cummins has white papers on the topic. My Cummins 6.7, as measuring NOx sensors 1 and 2 display about 100-350 ppm on the SCR input. My 2nd sensor at the SCR outlets typically reads ZERO! Yes, zero. It jumps to 1 or 2 ppm at moments when I lug down slow for turns in side streets.
My goodness, you are a font of knowledge. It seems to me that a truck buyer needs to ask Do I need a diesel engine? I mean I see you driving an empty truck ,nothing in tow . I see alot of guys just liking the "cool factor " of a diesel engine and not needing one at all . It's a free country drive what you want but make an informed decision.
So the states that test emissions do they simply inspect system or do they measure emissions. We just need the system to be working in Australia. Run an emulator to trick the computer to thinking everything working and remove exhaust drill out honey comb crap out, bang it on the ground put it all back in. Looks stock sounds stock but is hollow. I agree environmental impacts of mass production of these parts and premature failure and sale of your truck and re purchase of new truck balances out a deleted truck that you will own and go on for many many years to come.
You use so much more diesel by using a def system on your diesel (not to mention lost horse power and $1000s to keep it up and huge down times fixing it) that it is ridiculous to suggest that it is better for the environment.
As a class 8 diesel tech, I have always wondered why Cummins uses a dedicated doser (injector) for the doc/dpf on their heavy duty engines and not the light duty ones. Just like you mentioned, it greatly reduces engine oil life by way of fuel dilution. We have had trucks in our medium duty shop that have injectors fail and due to the extra fuel during the regen cycle, the crankcase was over filled by up to 30% and took out the main bearings on the crank. So entire engines have been replaced because of the way they introduce fuel for regen on the small engines. Crazy! This was a good video man. 99% of the TH-cam vids on this topic are way off on their facts and-or terms.
+blake dymond Thanks man, I sincerely appreciate it. I apparently missed the mark on some things and am working on a pinned comment to correct those. Great info and thank you for sharing.
blake dymond the late injection cycle diluted that bad into the oil system to smoke the mains? How many miles were on it? That's impressive.
Erik B no idea how many miles were put on it. A tech in the medium duty shop was working on it and showed it to me. I work in the heavy line shop. I'm sure the driver put quite a few on it though. Most of them just drive company trucks until they stop running or derate and won't go but 5 or 15 mph. The guys that own their trucks are way more proactive. They come in as soon any light comes on, mpg drops, or they have to start adding fluids like they should. There's truck drivers and then there's seat warmers that can shift. Lol
you probably dont care but if you're stoned like me during the covid times you can stream all the latest series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my gf during the lockdown xD
@Rex Juelz yup, I've been watching on InstaFlixxer for years myself :)
rewatched this and now I'm exhausted.
+Orren G lol no pun for the new video?
A few comments Christian. Excellent video on the emissions system. While urea is a component of urine, DEF is NOT made from urine. The urea used in DEF is very carefully synthesized from natural gas. I believe you said DEF was 38% urea. It is actually 32.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water. It is very carefully made and very pure. I really liked your honesty about how well the complicated and expensive system works to keep our air clean. That is not said much in videos about diesel exhaust, efficiency, power, or longevity. Yours was a refreshing and important discussion. You pointed out the pluses and minuses very fairly. I have a 2017 Laramie crew short bed. I can honestly say that I have never experienced active regeneration in this truck min over 22000 miles. However, we put 99% of our miles on it towing either a gooseneck horse trailer at 10-12K pounds loaded, a flatbed hay hauler (usually with 5 tons on it), or our Outdoors Timber RIdge RV (shameless plug for an Oregon product) trailer which is about 7000+ pounds wet. I think our exhaust temps while towing make active regeneration unnecessary. I have driven this truck empty from Spokane to Fargo North Dakota (about 2400 miles RT) on less than 2.5 gallons of DEF when running empty and not pulling a trailer. When pulling the Outdoors RV TT it takes more than twice that amount. I was very surprised when I first discovered that DEF consumption rises dramatically when hauling heavy loads. DEF cost is still almost insignificant in the total cost of ownership. That said, this is the best truck I have ever owned bar none. It is my 5th Ram since my first in 1994. It is so comfortable and easy to drive even with a very heavy load. I cannot say enough good things about it. A truck just can't get much better. I just added Firestone air bags on the rear and Bilstein Shocks all around along with Bilstein dual steering stabilizers. I had Timbrens on the rear and was happy with them towing, but the ride empty was harsh. Not any more. Excellent upgrades to the ride and level towing ability for sure. Keep up the good videos. I stopped watching a while back and now I am catching up with the ones I missed. Good job on all of them. This was particularly good and necessary to balance some of the bad stuff out there.
As a former diesel owner without DPF, this is a great explanation on regen. Thanks
+iFlipSites Thank you and glad to hear it!
This video has solidified my opinion to purchase the 5.9L Cummins 3rdGEN Dodge ram 2500 (05 to be exact I like that year of diesel rams) so that I don’t have to worry about deleting it as it comes stock that way and I don’t have to worry about all this DEF shih and the money that I saved on buying a luxurious truck like yours I can just spend a couple grand to redo the interior completely and make it an even more badass truck than what I could get off the lot.
Good luck man!
Thank you for taking the time to put this together! It is certainly helping me as I move towards buying my first diesel truck. Debating between 2500 and 3500 dually.
+Alexios The Wretched Thanks man and glad to be of service. Dually is outstanding for towing heavy, heavy loads but they suck for everything else in my opinion. Just make sure you need it before you compromise
PNWreckage Thank you for the response! Certainly a lot to consider since I may not need it now, but hope I will need it in the (hopefully near) future. I intend to keep whatever truck I buy for a long time... anyways keep them videos coming! Appreciate the "tone" (sarcasm) and of course, your perspective/experience on the issues.
+Alexios The Wretched I will keep at it
Did you get one?...it's been a year.
Hey man good vid. I’m one of those guys that ordered a brand new 2022 Cummins just because I wanted one. I have a 4700lbs boat I can tow around if I have to. The truck is going to be my daily driver I drive about 30km a day for work on the highway at 100km/h. Hope I didn’t make a 90k$ mistake
Just a question, do you not have a DEF gauge? I always add one jug of DEF when it hits 1/2 on the gauge
Fantastic info. Loved hearing both sides. I'm a female and have had my 2017 Ram 2500 since Dec. of 2016. I am fully committed to running it until it completely falls apart. I hope to have it at least another 20 years. Love my truck. I am a horse and agriculture gal too so I want to be good to the earth, but honestly I want to keep my truck running top notch even more. I'll offset my carbon footprint some other way. 😁
Also been having codes regarding the emissions system and after replacing the actuator, removing & cleaning the EGR valve and still getting new codes I am really considering deleting it. Next is to clean the turbo before making that decision. Since I only run my truck around town anymore for the last few years it makes sense that it is getting clogged up. At least now I understand why. 😊
Great video! Thanks!
I missed where the velcroed hooks came from?
We have a 2016 3500 with 22,000 miles now. I had the REGEN process happen once in the first 500 miles and it hasn't done it since. We tow a lot. I did have the service def system light come on once when we were driving through a national park all day at low speeds up and down hills with the exhaust break on. It turned off the next day so i didnt take it in. I go back and forth on whether to delete it or not as this will be my "forever" truck with ALOT of miles. NICE VIDEOS.
+Stephen Thank you for sharing this. If it's your forever truck (like this one is for me) then deleting is probably in your best interest. Not suggesting you do it tomorrow or anything but it's something I'm thinking about also. Thanks man
Great Job explaining this system. 👍🏼
Nice video. I've had 2 Cummins trucks..a 1997 2500 and my current 2006 3500. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with emissions on,my truck, but im getting the fever for a new truck. I've gone so far as to test drive a couple. Man they are nice. Anyway nice video. Glad you aren't a total tree hugger and you like guns and diesels. Tennessee here. Take care
I have been looking at both gas and diesel new trucks. I believe that all of the emission controls on these diesels are an evolution in progress much like gasoline engines went through in the 80's and 90's. I have decided that currently there are too many over complicated "bandaids" on these new diesels. The odds of problems, cost of repair, and service of these diesel trucks is more than I want to risk at this time. I will probably buy a gasoline V8 for my next truck as it will meet my needs but it is not what I really want. The risk of problems, extra costs, time in the shop are too much of a gamble with my hard earned money.
LOL! "I'm a tree huger, but I like guns and diesel trucks" haha made my day!
+Aaron.M Jackson lmao
Great explanation. I have trouble explaining this stuff when my buddies ask. I will now direct them to this video haha
+Curtis Chastain haha thanks man!
Great video, thanks for the tutorial on the emissions stuff!
+Charles Riley happy to help!
Very good video. I did some of my own research before encouraging dad to replace the gasser F350 farm truck (which was a dog and which whenever I would tow with it, I had to have it screaming to make any hay) with a 2018 Ram 3500 chassis cab with Cummins engine, and I have become convinced that the modern diesel engines and the transmissions backing them are probably the most reliable of any era, and that the exhaust emissions would be the weak spot as far as reliability. However, we use this truck in a way that will generally minimize the amount of active regen that would be required. The truck has a 2,500 lb bale bed on it, with a 1,200 lb cube feeder on top of that, so when it is being driven, it is working. The truck will be driven slowly in the field, but there is a 45 mile highway trip from home to the field. So far, the only complaints that we have had is the DEF consumption, but I am pretty sure that the DEF tank was NOT full when we left the dealership, as we put some in during a trip last week. 1,500 miles on it so far, and so far, so good. I am like you... a bit of a tree-hugger, but I love diesel trucks and guns.
IMO, the addition of all of this emission equipment should make people really consider whether they really need a diesel pickup whenever they are buying one, whether their normal usages of the truck is going to be something that will necessitate a diesel truck. If you just like the sound of a diesel truck, and you will not be doing much towing, but instead off-roading, you might be better off with a gasoline engine. If you are going to be towing in town with lots of stops, you are probably going to be better off with a gasoline engine. The gas engines in todays trucks are not bad engines in city driving, especially with the modern 6 speed transmissions and the low rear-end gear selections that are now available. My experience with pulling with a gasoline truck has been that take-offs have a surprising amount of alacrity in city environments, and it is only upon reaching highway speeds that it becomes significantly harder to keep speed than a diesel. If you are going to typically have a load on, traveling at highway speeds for a significant portion, you should probably have a diesel truck.
Outstanding comment.
One BIG thing I didn’t hear you say everyone should try too do . When it is in Active or Passive Regen LET IT FINISH do not turn off the truck , you can tell it’s in one by the sound or if you have a monitor watching exhaust gases rise over 900deg . Turning it off causes issues
Good informative video.
I drive a 2017 Ram 3500 with the 800 ft/lb version Cummins and 68RFE transmission. I recently got a Bluetooth code reader and OBDFusion iPhone app. This lets me monitor all 5 (yes 5!) EGT sensors. I just towed my 15,000 lb 5th wheel trailer to 10,500 ft in Colorado, as well as a lot of other serious climbing in the last week since I got the app. At 60 - 65 mph I am seeing temps of 750F to 850F on average, even when pulling serious hills. On very long hard 6 degree grades, I still never saw higher than 940F, and that was just for a moment or two. So in my experience, it is pretty hard to get up to passive regen temperatures of 950F, even while towing heavy in the mountains. These temps are from the first of the 5 EGT factory probes, and I don't know how close to the cylinder it is.
The app also lets me see the EGT downstream at various points, so I can monitor it while it is in regen. I have only seen it in regen once since getting the app, and the temps at the DPF were around 1050F at the highest. And if the OBDFusion app had not told me it was in regen, I never would have known. It was imperceptible.
"Diesel Exhaust Fluid Fluid" :P
Really thorough explanation. You covered pretty much everything I think. Like you said the whole thing is a balancing act: Too hot and you get NOx (NO1 and NO2). Too cold and you get DPM (Soot). All of these systems do a great job of balancing that out to reduce both kinds of emissions, it's just a shame you have to strangle the engine, dirty-up the intake and oil, dump your unburned fuel, and repeatedly purchase cow pee to do that.
Also the cost of replacing a faulty DPF is more than the cost of a full delete, which I think is I think a pretty common trigger for people to go down that road.
If you are ever concerned about getting caught with a deleted truck on a trip somewhere, there are stealth kits available. It's basically a straight pipe but shaped like it still has the DOC/DPF/SCR intact. Some come with block-off plates for the EGR, but still have to leave that giant-ass cooler in your engine bay even though it can't be used. Some just rely on the tuner to keep the EGR valve closed, but then you take the risk of it getting knocked open somehow while the system isn't functioning. Either way, it'll pass a visual inspection if a cop decides to stop you and look under the truck.
**Edit:** Apparently I've gone crazy. Doesn't look like there are stealth exhaust kits for sale - people either hollow out their own or get a spare exhaust from a junkyard and hollow that out instead.
+vsTerminus oh crap did I say fluid twice??
+vsTerminus pinning this comment because it is outstanding
vsTerminus where might one get ahold of a stealth pipe and egr block off plate?
+Aaron Walczak also curious
+PNWreckage At 00:11 "D-E-F Fluid" ;)
That was the only time though lol
Thank you for this video. Much appreciated it
+Coffin Nails my pleasure, thanks for watching
Oxides. NEVER Dioxides! What bothers me the most is the fact that class 8 trucks are not as regulated as the personal diesel owner. It's the lobbyist group that get the pass, but not the citizens.Again, all politically driven rules.
+E. Simons NO2 is Nitrogen Dioxide and is part of the NOx family. Maybe you were agreeing with me and I missed it. The whole mess is more than annoying
Nice work I drove tractor trailer for 10 years
I think you did a great job on this video!
+TacticalSBR Thank you!
Not bashing on your video or you, just correcting. Nitrogen oxides, more commonly known as NOX is, as you stated, a byproduct of heat during the combustion process. Egr, is the process of taking exhaust gas from the manifold, pre turbo, and routing it back into the inlet manifold. Exhaust gas is inert. That is why they use it. The inert exhaust gas is cooled via the egr cooler then introduced back into the combustion chamber to cool the combustion chamber. Which reduces NOX.
+blake dymond well said and pardon my error in saying post turbo
Good video and about as objective a one as you're going to get on this topic. I like how you point out the possible reliability issues with emissions intact but still acknowledge that they do greatly curb emissions relative to previous generations of diesel engines.
The legality of deleting is pretty straight forward...it's not allowed by the EPA, but different states have different approaches when it comes to enforcing and supervising that. I don't like the complexity of modern diesels, but I also acknowledge that progress needs to be made on dealing with their emissions. Kind of like the EPA's regulations on gasoline engines and fuel quality back in the 70's and 80's, I imagine there will be growing pains with diesel emissions technologies. But I hope that over time they will become more reliable and less expensive to maintain or fix. Here in the US, diesel owners and enthusiasts cringe at the EPA's stance on diesel emissions, but go look overseas (e.g. Europe) where for the longest time they had few, if any, regulations on diesel emissions and the air quality in their cities has suffered horrendously (they also have a lot more diesel passenger cars than what we have here in the US).
I'm torn on longterm ownership of a modern diesel. I'd like to minimize my environmental footprint, but I also don't want to have to pay for a new exhaust system (and potentially a major engine overhaul) 100k-150k miles into ownership. What I would really like to see from Cummins and other diesel owners is longterm feedback on how the emissions, and engine reliability, fares over the longterm (150k miles and beyond). It sounds like the newer diesel engines (2013+ for Cummins) are much better at managing the EGR and DPF active regen's and also get better mpg's than what the earlier versions were getting. All that said, the 2013+ Cummins are still young, relatively speaking, and I'd like to see how they're doing 5-6 years from now with several hundred miles on the odometer.
BTW, PNWreckage this isn't all directed at you. Mostly this is just me airing out my thoughts on the topic. Though if you do end up keeping your Ram for the longterm, I hope you continue to make videos and keep us posted on its reliability.
+Kevin P Fantastic comment and it never came across as you yelling at me, lol. The plan is for this to be my forever truck and I will keep everyone updated as my ownership progresses.
There's a guy over on the Turbo Diesel Register forum who just turned over 600k miles on his 2012. Uses it for hauling cars.
www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/259082-600k-miles-2012-Ram-3500-Laramie-longhorn
+Charles Riley I feel way better about my 15k now! Thanks for sharing.
The point kinda is that he reports he is still on the original engine and turbo, and none of the stuff he's had to replace due to wearing out or failing have been emissions related. I should have been more clear on that.
Charles, that gives me additional confirmation that the newer emission systems are in fact more reliable and longer lasting. You hear about a lot of horror stories with the 2007.5-2010 Ram 6.7's, but a lot those issues had to do with heavy EGR and DPF regen tempo's. It seems that the newer emission systems have seen optimization in the ECU programming and the addition of the DEF (SCR catalyst) has relieved a lot of the previous issues. Also, driving habits seem to play a huge role. The guy you referred to with 600k hauling cars probably hasn't had any issues keeping the DPF functioning and healthy, whereas someone driving primarily in stop-and-go traffic might be more likely to have issues. A lot of owners have indicated that getting on the highway on a regular basis allows for more passive regen's (as opposed to active regen's requiring fuel injection) of the DPF. Honestly, it seems that unless you are using your 6.7 to navigate traffic-jammed city streets on a daily basis, an owner should have little to no issues with an emissions-intact diesel. Also, deleting an older 2007-2010 6.7L cummins seemed to improve mpg's (due to the previously mentioned EGR and DPF cycles); I'd be interested in seeing how much of an mpg improvement, if any, was realized by deleting a newer 2013+ 6.7L Cummins.
This video makes me wonder what is more efficient, burning more fuel with all the emissions equipment, or burning less fuel without it? 🤔
+Kody Kalma Boom you nailed it and I am also curious
A new 6.7 power stroke has emissions equal to 24 2002 7.3 powerstroke. This was told to me by a ford tech at a dealership last spring while I was still driving Fords not Rams. Even if the guy was not completely accurate the bottom line is that the new trucks are very very clean. I thought the sane as you and this was the answer I got from a ford tech.
Taxes are collected by the gallon on diesel. Less efficiency and less mpg equals a truckload of additional taxes collected for big government. That's what they truly care about.
I know it's an old response, but the answer depends on the vehicle. On the 2013 and newer Cummins, there's hardly a fuel economy penalty with the emissions. There's a very very slight increase in CO2 production, but running without the emission equipment results in around a 100x increase in PM. The testing by CARB shows that the PM in the 2018 and newer Cummins is less than that of a Prius.
Very informative! Thank you for the vid!
Hey PNWreckage, great videos man. Very informative. I am buying a 2018 in the coming months and will be using a lot of the pointers you have said. I have a question, you may have answered this in one of your previous vids but what do you do for work?
+Dustyn Journigan hey man congrats on your upcoming purchase. My employer prohibited me from mentioning what I do for a living on this channel, which is unfortunate. Sorry if that sounds evasive, definitely not my intention. I am curious what your guess would be though!
PNWreckage well there are thousands of guesses! Considering how much you say you drive on a daily basis I would guess that you either work in the city and commute to work or have a position that requires you to travel to multiple locations.
@@PNWreckageinteresting that they won't let you say what line of work you're in??!! So maybe you're a secret agent? 😂😂😂
Great video and info. Would like to hear your opinion of the tunes available for the 6. 7 with the emissions left in place. Thanks
+mike brandon thanks man. I will look into that topic because I am also curious.
PNWreckage thanks
Ez link, you can tune and leave everything in. After your warranty you have the option to fully delete.
+Derek Bonogofsky great info
Great video! Off topic, why did you buy the 2500 over the 3500. Just the suspension or?
+My Fish Life that was a big part of it. I just didn't have the need for more payload at the expense of ride quality.. and options.. and more money lol
PNWreckage awesome! Thank you.
+My Fish Life np!
I’m not one who considers myself an environmentalist or one who believes in man made climate change. But I can definitely appreciate the benefits of emissions equipment. It’s really not a big deal when out in the country, as the exhaust disperses quickly and the crap will naturally settle out of the air and or break down. In large towns or cities, where you have a lot more vehicles crammed onto the road, you could easily choke people with all that crap in the air! I live in Denver, and just bought a 2013 Ram Cummins, I’m gonna leave the thing stock, and every time I refill the DEF tank remember I don’t have to wash soot off the side of my truck!
Jus wait till it starts fucking up
Glad I found this vid. I was planning on doing a delete on my ‘16 Cummins but I’m gonna hold off as I’m planning on getting a newer one. I hope I can find a sap to buy this def hog though.
Say you modified your exhaust to improve the efficiency, what do you do about the extra injection of diesel into the exhaust stream?
You also mention software upgrades, are these automatic or are they done at the dealer?
PNWreckage what brand do you use for your DEF all the time? Been thinking about Mopar not sure what to do for brand. Don't want to give the dealer any excuse for warranty issues.
I use the generic brand unless the fancy one is on sale. Literally no difference from what I can tell but I get where you're coming from.
I fill mine up at truck stops, so much cheaper and easier to fill.
Can't wait until that's more common in my area. Believe it or not there aren't many
The EPA has accomplished nothing by forcing manufacturers to design and install these systems. If they really cared about the environment the first consideration should have been to reduce diesel consumption. The diesel engine (pre-DPF system bullshit) was already much more full efficient than the gasoline. If a truck uses much less fuel without these systems then it is a huge win for both the environment and the individual who owns the vehicle. The DPF system has added thousands to the cost of the vehicle, increased maintenance costs and increased potential catastrophic failures , decreased engine performance AND decreased fuel economy. One does not have to be a scientist or engineer to understand this. Do the simple math. Bottom line: the very high cost of these systems has completely destroyed any marginal reduction in greenhouse gases. The EPA wrecks everything it touches! I'm ripping my DPF system out as soon as the warranty is expired.
GREAT VIDEO and Presentation ..I suscribed👍👍👍👍
I live in a city environment, LA County, and I don't tow anything (yet). So I would accumulate all the soot very quickly? Also do I need to purchase the engine warmer or does it come with it?
+Shane Bartlett the block heater is an option but you probably wouldn't use it much in your area😉 Soot would depend on your drives and whether you run it long enough to achieve passive regens. What do your drives look like?
PNWreckage I drive up to a hundred miles a day JUST within my city (Santa Clarita)
+Shane Bartlett stop and go or are you cruising? Forgive my ignorance I'm not familiar with Santa Clarita
Thank you for the informative videos. We are shopping for 2500 and would love the Cummins however, in Suburban Chicago we have to pass emissions to get tags so I don't believe there would be any way around deleting. Unless you know otherwise?
I realize I'm responding after a year. Illinois doesn't have emissions testing for diesels, at least not yet. If you get a class d truck you'll need to get a safety inspections every six months.
I got a brand new 2020 dodge2500 sport 4x4 with the Cummings and on my way to a wedding a few weeks after getting it i had smoke coming thru the air vents and the smell of something burning, it hasn't done it since then but wondering if i should be worried?
YES!! Next is HID light😁
Now I've heard "chipping" it can unlock a lot more of its potential. What are your thoughts on that?
+Shane Bartlett like using a tuner? Lol nice work watching this video to the end!
PNWreckage umm I've never heard it called a tuner but let's say yes for understanding sake lol. It was actually pretty informal for as long as it is. Made me think about certain things so I know what to expect
+Shane Bartlett lol I think we're on the same page with tuners and chips, and yes those can make a HUGE difference! Like enough to grenade your transmission potentially with just a tuner. I was worried about the length but I'm not super formal as you have probably gathered haha. Hope it was helpful.
Way better Intro. short and to the point! I wasn't a fan of the old one.
+Casey B Glad you like the new one better
Nitrous Oxide is N2O that is not produced in the exhaust. The NOX sensor measures the level of Nitrogen Oxide NOx
Good video and thanks for the info....I feel lucky as crap...my DEF consumption on my 2018 2500 is about 3 gallons every 7500 miles.... don't plan on doing any deletes for a while, my dealership offers a 20 year 200,000 mile warranty; so I will wait until I hit one of the marks then play
scackley wow....what did that warranty cost? I would never delete if I had that.
Great info, thanks for the details
I had a Cummins and here is the deal: they don’t tell you that this engine will start clogging up the day you drive it with soot. After 15K miles my engine performance went way down sluggish and non responsive. My engine also got a lot louder on the top end valve train. So with the black smoke now going back into the crank case oil - when you do a oil change and after 100 miles that new oil is black like tar looks horrible. You have to use synthetic oil with new def changes so you will need to buy an oil change plan or pay $180 per change. Then you have fuel filters to change ever 15K miles. If your DEF emissions plugs up it may be covered under warranty but you truck will be shop for a while. Also don’t forget about the67,000 service that is $1500.. if you are out of warranty between your under the hood emissions and under the truck exhaust dpf regeneration you can easily pay 1000 of dollars on repairs and part. A turbo replacement is like $7000.00. Injectors replacement are $8000-$13000. I sold me Ram Diesel at 15K miles and went back to a 1500 and love it.
Great Video. I have a 2015 6.7 Cummins with 15,000 miles on it. So far I've had 2 active re gens during that time. I try to do as few short trips in my truck as possible. I absolute love my truck and for the money it beats (IMO) Ford and Chevy. After watching a few of these videos, I'm started to get concerned that maybe I should have brought one with a gasoline engine instead. My whole reasoning for buying a diesel was because they last a long time. I hope I didn't make a mistake. I plan on keeping this truck for 20 years.
+Andrew Usmani I don't think you made a mistake and support your short trip philosophy. Think you'll delete?
I'm not too up to date on the whole deleting thing haha. I live in CA and I would not want a "comrade" from the air pollution board paying me a visit in the middle of the night ;-). I'll check out some of the deleting videos and see what that entails.
dont buy the hemi 6.4 - i just ordered a tradesman 2500 cummins. i get 10 mpg with the gasser. spending 320 month on gasoline stinks. have an old 5.9 cummins 2500 and drive that more than the 16 hemi. cheers.
You didn't make a mistake at all. Either put some cash aside for future repairs on the emissions system or delete it. Main thing is to try to be pro-active and keep up on cleaning the EGR valve often, keeping all filters replaced often, oil & fuel filters changed evry 10k miles and run your exhaust brake ALL the time. It keeps that emission system cleaned out.
Have you had any issues with the emissions system in your ownership? This is one of my main worries in purchasing a newer truck just like yours. Other than driving habits can a guy do anything to prevent issues
None. I will delete it at some point but honestly, none. I think a lot of it is luck of the draw as long as you're not just doing short trips
Liqui Moly makes a DPF cleaning gun and wand that can clean out your DPF pretty well. They have videos of cleaning car DPF's in Europe. Part #'s are 7945 & 7946. The cleaning fluid part #'s are 20110 & 20112. I think you can order them through AutoZone. They buy it from a vendor called IMC.
Hey PNC, I have commented a few times to your very informative and well presented videos. I now have 19K miles in 7 months on my 2017 RAM 3500 SRW Limited with Aisin. I have been adding a 2.5 gallon container of DEF about every 4K miles. I only got down to the warning light once. I drive with automatic exhaust brake all the time. I am in southern California so I drive 50/50 split highway and city. I cannot detect when a regen is happening? I had one less than favorable tank of fuel only yielding about 15mpg at around 15K on truck, so can I assume my truck went through an unnoticeable passive regen during that tank? I normally average 17-19mpg combined city and highway, and get as much as 22mpg highway while driving to Colorado and back to visit my daughter. I am a diesel newbie so I am not sure if these trucks require the regular California "smog" checks in order to get registration renewed. Does deleting the DEF system affect a smog check if so required? I can only assume it does. I look forward to your reply. Thanks!
Hi! Fellow Californian here. Yes, you will have to smog every other year due to CA's uptight emissions laws. It's illegal to delete your truck here. I have heard it also depends.on your county. Some do not have the same restrictions and you don't have to smog. Now, are cops going around looking for you if you delete your truck? No. But it being illegal is a factor to consider. If you do have to smog in your county then that is another consideration. Can the smog thing be gotten around? Well, I'm just going to say that I know a few people who have deleted their trucks and still pass smog so....??
I only live about 20 minutes from work. That being said, do you think I would be better off getting the 6.4 Hemi? I would eventually be doing some towing, but mostly daily driving.
Im doing the same thing you are in my cummins, so far so good 👍
Are you going to delete? I plan on doing it once my extended warranty runs out.
+trenttyre yes sir, sounds like we have the same plan to wait until out of warranty.
I have 2018 2500 and as soon as my extended warranty runs out. Delete, Delete,
What diesel fuel additive(s) do you recommend?
+Holly Taylor I don't recommend any. Not saying I don't recommend specific brands, just not something I have ever found the use for.
PNWreckage So you can run Diesel without additives?
+Holly Taylor my truck runs No.2 highway diesel perfectly, and it also runs B20 20% biodiesel perfectly. The power and mileage have always been great but I've heard of people being big fans of certain additives.
PNWreckage Hmmm. I learned something new to me.
+Holly Taylor yeah?
I just bought a 2016 Cummins, from trading in my 2011 deleted Duramax. These are easier to delete and something I'll definitely do
+Keven Gil How are you adjusting to the new rig?
ehh. it's alright. skipped out of finding a truck with a higher trim, ended a tradesman with all the options you can get. decent little truck.
+Keven Gil nice work
I have a 2015 Cummins and it is not using any DEF. Gauge remains in full after driving 1000 miles. I have never experienced a regen.
Any suggests as to what could be cause?
Add a gallon of DEF. if it won’t all fit, you’re not using DEF……not normal. If it takes it, then your gauge is wrong. I use about 1 gallon of DEF per 300 miles. In my case, it should go 1800 miles from full to empty.
I just purchased a 2014 dodge ram 5500 hd *emissions deleted* my husband overlooked that before we purchased it! We are starting our hot shot business and we literally can't run the truck with out one! Needed too know how/or what she we do about replacing or adding one
I think u answered it own question
Thanks this helped a lot
+Outdoor Madness Glad to hear it
The DPF is used to remove particulates down to 2.5 microns. A micron is a very small particle.
+Ron Wertz very small
Which is why I will be deleting it on my 1500 Eco Diesel as soon as the warranty runs out!
+Ron Wertz agreed!
i’ve seen in the 2019 ram 2500 diesel owners manual that a parked manual regen can be performed, if so short daily (city) driving shouldn’t be a problem, or would it?
I think only chassis cab models offers that option. I’m not sure why they don’t offer that for other models. It seems like it would be a great option. Really sucks that you can pay $50-$60,000 for a truck and still can’t drive it around town or take it for short drives without leading to engine trouble.
I find your videos interesting because I am trying to decide what truck to buy. I am thinking about a 1ton BigHorn DRW for hauling a 5000 lb camper. I will always have a camper on the truck. I have car for to day use. I am wondering about whether it is worth the hassle and cost of getting a diesel for only 5000lb vs a Hemi.
I can't justify a diesel but gas 1tons are as rare as unicorns.
I am across the river in Vancouver, WA.
Gong to Costco today to see what their buying service can do.
i deleted my 2016 at 3k never looked back at 17k now running like a champ..... if and when i ever get another its going from the dealership to the shop to be deleted.....
I'm at 65k miles on my 16' Ram 3500. I send oil samples to the lab about every third oil change and have never had fuel show up on the report. Is this an exception to the rule or is the discussion of oil dilution from the emission system BS? Has anyone claiming oil dilution by the emission system offered data in the form of a lab report? I'm not arguing for or against any of the data discussed, I just like to see the numbers to back up points brought up in the discussion below.
dpf hates stop and go, start and restart for short period of time. they said diesel now is clean but im not buying it specially doing the regen
My state requires inspections in order to register and renew license tags, so anyone who deletes their truck will be unable to renew their registration or sell their truck.
Same here. I am thinking we are forced to either keep all emission equipment or just go with Hemi...
Which state?
i want a 2019 ram 2500 6.7l cummins, i don’t know much about diesel, how would this truck do as a daily driver/short trip truck, 6 miles to work and 6 miles back home? long trip once a year no towing.
I would not go for the Cummins with what you've described. It literally would not warm up fully during your drive to/from work and most people who have similar commutes have expressed a higher incidence of problems with theirs. If I were in your shoes I would look long and hard at a Power Wagon for 2500 or the 1500 if that looks like overkill. Let me know if that doesn't make sense
if i get it out for 30 to 40 miles on the highway on the weekends would that be ok?
"the giant crap shoot that is the emissions system is"...lol...that is the best summation I've heard yet
+rustyretina lol I couldn't figure out a more accurate explanation
I'd love to get a 2500 with the cummins but living here in Cali it's illegal doing the delete which sucks ass.
delete for the win! =)
+CLBFTruckGuy very envious lol
PNWreckage I'm same as you man I'm not deleted yet. want to. I have a 2017 RAM 3500 Limited SRW equipped with the Aisin transmission
and love it :)
+CLBFTruckGuy your truck will be a monster if you tune it lol. We'll get there man!
PNWreckage cool man, it will. thank you
CLBFTruckGuy you have the limited too?? Omg I wanna see it lol
Great job!!!
I plan on weekend highways drives just to be certain I’m getting passive regen. time.
Dumb Q?.. Why an auto rather than a manual?
Both are 6-speed. Heard less problems w/manual vs auto trans (Granted. "old" body styles :94-02)
I have an '01 1500, 5.2/318 gasser w/a manual,. and would KILL for a "newer" gasser w/ manual. Consistent 14-16 gpm on 60 mile day/6 day-week work run.
Are the "new" autos that much improved from the older gens?
PJ
+pjf1313 I was thisssss close to getting a manual. Reviews are a mixed bag when it comes to tuning and reliability. Some are bulletproof and others explode when you're goosing it out of a parking lot. We tow horses and the shifts are harder on them with a manual. I'm also a huge fan of the full length center console but that's low on the list. The warranty is a bit odd with the G56 also, from what I can remember. Not a dumb Q by any means!
Thanks for your input!
I'm looking for a "newer" full-sized p-u with a manual, and Dodge is the only one that offers that. Been driving manuals since the mid '70's and don't want to stop now..
We don't tow live loads, but more "dead" weight - tractors, generators, construction supplies/equipment, so that jarring is not as much as a problem (a hunk of metal ain't gonna complain much;-) ).
Thanks, P.J.
+pjf1313 I think you'll love your future truck from the sound of it. Nothing like rowing your own gears
The Cummins is derated if you get the MB G56 transmission to a maximum of 660 lb/ft of torque (theoretical rating of the manual transmission is thought to be around 700 lb/ft). If you are getting a 3500, you would be better off as far as towing capacity with an Aisen transmission and the high output Cummins engine. With the 4.10 gears, you get a max tow rating of 30,000 lbs with dual rear wheels, and even with the 3.42 gears, you will have a capacity of around 20,000 lbs. With the 3.73 gears, your manual transmission will only have a towing capacity of around 18k lbs. If max torque is not a make or break deal, and it is between the G56 manual and the 68RFE auto (non-high output), then the difference with the 3.73 gears is going to be negligible.
If you are getting a 2500, the Aisen is not an option, the reduction in tow capacity with the manual transmission will be negligible. You are still going to be reduced to 660 lb/ft of torque.
As an aside, the G56 transmission comes from Chrysler with automatic transmission fluid as its lubricant. Very odd considering that the same transmission from MB has a more traditional lubricant in Europe. Something to consider if getting a manual transmission. Many people have swapped fluids. The gear oil that is used in other parts of the world is going to have a harder shift than the ATF. Some people swear by the gear oil though.
Pretty much, what should I expect being in a city environment?😰
+Shane Bartlett expect to get the dash message to drive at highway speeds for 20 minutes or so because your DPF is nearing capacity. Also expect way more active regens and a reduction in fuel economy.
PNWreckage yeah I'm not telling the wife that lmao!
She won't want it anymore😂
+Shane Bartlett lol smart man
+Shane Bartlett protect her hahaha
how does it have less of an impact if you end up junking junking your engine 100,000 of miles earlier then back in the day?
+Brian Jensen that's a great question. I bet people want deleted engines more
Thank you for a very informative video. Got my questions answered about the regen procedure. Also- can't help but laugh as I see you wearing a 'Portland' shirt and saying "make us hate this place a lot more in 50 years". _ Didn't take that long, did it?
😀
man, I want to delete my 2017 on order but my 15 did fine not deleted. For me when I buy a new truck warranty is a huge thing and if I don't have that I would be back to buying. A old 5.9 and dumping money into that. anyways from Hillsboro,OR good to see some local video's.
+Chris Madden nice to hear from another Oregonian and I hear you about the old 12v
+mac cheese My pleasure! That video took HOURS to edit lol, I need to get faster
+mac cheese thinking about deleting at some point?
+mac cheese you like to live on the wild side
+mac cheese awesome!! What stage is it in?
I thought that late injection thing was a Powerstroke thing, I know the 6.4L would do that, and it cooked the turbos...
"Oxides of Nitrogen" is the correct technical term term for what is produced in Diesel Exhaust, not Nitrous Oxide. Best not to keep calling it Nitrous Oxide, harder to keep the two separate when you keep calling it Nitrous Oxide. There is only one kind of Nitrous Oxide, and only one kind of Oxides of Nitrogen. Just wanted to clarify that for you since you seem quite knowledgeable on the DPF Regeneration subject as a whole.
Again..A quality fuel/oil separator filter can/does remove this "dirty"oil that has the diesel fuel particulates of your filtering systems!
+E. Simons Do you have a link to a plug and play setup?
I used to know of a system particular to your cummings application.For the life of me I can't recall it just now! Let me think about were I've seen this B4 and will get back to you.
+E. Simons sounds good man
good shit
+m w thanks man
Thanks
This is why you buy a ‘17 and newer ford, they are the only manufacturer that offers a manual regeneration, it’s called OCR, operator command regen, for us city drivers! We can perform a manual regeneration in our driveway, suck it Ram and Chevy!
DEF filled 2 times? wow. I've used 12 gallons in 9000 miles. 4500 were pulling 6000LBS. Seems like 2 gallons will go about 700 miles towing.
+C S definitely not towing every day but I am anticipating an increase as the season is near
To many testing to prove you wrong do you live in California
I didn't make this about my opinion or about political stances, which I said at least 4 times during the video. Did you watch it or just make assumptions?
1/ Cummins builds engines for work, not play. RAM needs to educate buyers better on how to operate. Short trips and idling are considered severe duty. imho, "lugging" should be added to this definition. The CTD needs to be run for long periods at 1800 rpm and above, as this ensures proper combustion and least particulates, thereby reducing regens to minimum, and thus preserving the engine oil. If this is not your driving habit, perhaps a gasser is a better option.
2/ Alternate technologies have been developed and proposed to eliminate particulates. I know, as I was a member of a team. But they are not as convenient for drivers as the DPF, so no market appeal to lazy people. Such tech does provide greater air flow, and thus greater power.
3/ Another factor is the quality of fuel, which is rather low in the USA. Instead of placing the onus on consumers, the EPA should be pressuring oil companies to produce a better, more refined fuel. The quality of fuel greatly determines the exhaust components.
+Rob Grune well said and agreed
PS. a better, 8-speed tranny would help greatly to ensure optimum rpm band when operating in highly variable conditions. proper gearing could enable a smaller engine, thus improving fuel economy and reducing emissions overall. power to the ground is what matters most. again, nobody wants to build a perfect truck, as this would kill their future sales, not to mention less profits for oil cartel.
+Rob Grune lol I don't disagree
Rob Grune I
HAHA... Thanks for that @5:17 good chuckle
I didn't even know about this like imagine being told you didn't drive your truck hard enough due to that your exhaust never was hot enough to do its job that'll be 3k-5k oof
Incorrect. At higher speeds and higher temps one’s engine is producing the least NOx. The greatest NOx emissions occur below 25 mph. That’s from Cummins own studies. At 25mph one can readily produce more than 5 times more NOx than cruising at hwy speeds. Cummins has white papers on the topic. My Cummins 6.7, as measuring NOx sensors 1 and 2 display about 100-350 ppm on the SCR input. My 2nd sensor at the SCR outlets typically reads ZERO! Yes, zero. It jumps to 1 or 2 ppm at moments when I lug down slow for turns in side streets.
Just sent a e-mail for your specific application.
It’s tampons clogging pipes for the qweef
Bovine urea and water sounds like Bud Light to me
My goodness, you are a font of knowledge. It seems to me that a truck buyer needs to ask Do I need a diesel engine? I mean I see you driving an empty truck ,nothing in tow . I see alot of guys just liking the "cool factor " of a diesel engine and not needing one at all . It's a free country drive what you want but make an informed decision.
So the states that test emissions do they simply inspect system or do they measure emissions.
We just need the system to be working in Australia.
Run an emulator to trick the computer to thinking everything working and remove exhaust drill out honey comb crap out, bang it on the ground put it all back in.
Looks stock sounds stock but is hollow.
I agree environmental impacts of mass production of these parts and premature failure and sale of your truck and re purchase of new truck balances out a deleted truck that you will own and go on for many many years to come.
You use so much more diesel by using a def system on your diesel (not to mention lost horse power and $1000s to keep it up and huge down times fixing it) that it is ridiculous to suggest that it is better for the environment.
What are diesel emissions.
www.dieselnet.com/tech/emi_intro.php
It all works against the longevity of a normal engine.
In short buy a 12' pre Def BS...then delete EGR
If you use Amsoil products in your truck you will save a lot of money and it won’t run a regen as often...
Saving the environment one plastic bottle at a time. 😂
lol you mean uses exhaust components
+Brian Jensen oh no what did I say?
PNWreckage hahaha whoops. Meant to say "lol you mean useless exhaust components"
+Brian Jensen lol lol
Something you said at 14:30 of this video. I guess I was trying to be a funny smart ass
+Brian Jensen lmao it was funny