I know that sick feeling you was describing it doesn’t matter how experienced you are you still get it when a mistake like that happens. Good luck with the repairs. On the plus side the machine and your boring bar are working well 👍👍👍👍
Ooohh Fuk , it's a feeling that comes with the territory . Not what you need on the lead up for Christmas but a good solid recovery solution . You certainly pushed that boring head past it's limits ! My best insert tool for metal removal also has the all important 15 deg lead also . Cheers 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
It was just before quitting time on a Friday, I had had a good day and my beer fridge was full and waiting for me at home. I thought I'd bore one hole out and start the weekend in a good mood. Talk about kicking the weekend in the nuts. That small boring head was bought about 25 years ago when my only milling machine was a 400lb. mill-drill. It could easily handle anything that could throw at it. The 20,000 lb boring mill proved too much. I really like the new "head" I made and adjusting to size is very easy with the dial indicator set up. As dumb as it sounds my favourite thing about it is the single Allen key adjustement. The 15 degree lead angle kicks ass. The cut you see it taking just after I showed the digital readout moving was .180" deep with a .010" per rev feed rate at 400 rpm. It handled that without any problems. Have a good Christmas Max. Ken
I would like to make a suggestion. I'm not an expert but you can just take it as an opinion and ignore it. Won't hurt my feelings. Mill out every hole to the smallest exact same size as possible (uniform). Then use some thick walled hollow stock (smaller hole than the desired finish) of the same metal grade as the plate and mill the OD to .002 or .003 crush bigger than the Jacking Station hole. Part them off at length. Heat the Jack to about 300 degrees and use liquid nitrogen on the 'sleeves', clamp in a backing plate on the inside of the 'Jacking Station' and dropped the sleeve in to the machined hole. If milled correctly, they would fit the width of the hole, no finish work needed and the crush would preclude the need for welding. So tight it would Never come out. Because the hole is now smaller, there is meat available. Then re-bore the holes to their location and milled to size and not violate the bolt holes. This would avoid over heating and potential warping of welding the holes with filler. The other option is same as above (if welding was needed) but put a heavy chamfer on the Jacking Station holes to welding below the surface where 3 welding passes would be enough. Heat and freeze as above, drop the Sleeve in. Weld in the sleeve. Then re-mill the plate fascia to make it flat, bore and mill the hole to spec. I wouldn't chamfer and weld the inside Jacking Station, the .002 crush would more than hold and only weld the outside. Never the less, you came up with a solution and it worked.
Problem Issues Solutions….repeat!!! PIS-repeat! Tks for sharing as a home hobbyist I am currently in the PIS mode on a build of one…wishing you best results on your MANY and hopefully I can solve my one😂😂 Merry Christmas
The horizontal borer hole height issue, that could be quite a search. Dialling up the square off the table only tells you the table top is square to the column at that location. The table could have a lean on it, either on the rotary, the cross or long slides, or a combination of all three in varying directions potentially. I would try dialling up the table top for each axis and see what you get. Depending on how the machine was setup also, it’s possible the column was tweaked to square off to the table surface, not the travel. Depends on what the intended purpose of the machine was if it was not perfect to start with. I ran a horizontal whereby the facing slide on the head was perpendicular to the Z-axis (table in/out), but out of square to the X-axis around .10mm in 200mm. Nearly all our work was facing pipes so being square to the X was not important. So if your Z axis is not perpendicular to the column Y axis then you may get this result. Also, if your face milling the spindle may not be square to the table or anything else, the same as the column is. It’s another axis that can wear, sag etc differently to the column Y axis. Head locks can also change the position of the spindle depending on machine condition, adjustment and spindle overhang,
I think what really happened was..... Your FIL welded them wrong, but rather than passing the blame to him.... You are to kind, and set about to find a way to recover.... and a fine job you did....!!
No, this one is on me. I set up the first one and he welded it and all the others exactly how I set up the first one. Unfortunately for me, I got the first one upside down. What was really frustrating about the whole thing was I knew it would be easy to get it wrong so I spent extra time on the set up and rechecked it several times and still got it wrong. Not a high point in my life by any means.
@ 33:30 Did you have those previous experiences with boring? Because if you think about it. A 45 degree angle will diffuse the force 50% sideways and 50% into the spindel. Creating more sideload. While at 15degree you only have about 25% of the force as sideload and 75% of it going straight into the spindle. Just a quick thought I had.
I'd definitely disagree with what you are saying about not using the facing head with a stub bar. Did you check tram to your ways? Face Mount a bar and sweep back to the the column ways. Your headstock is probably slightly tipped to produce an out of square like that I'd guess. The hole size wouldn't change, your centerline would change, if you are trying to check that you'd use a dial indicator from the surface plate to validate they are in line
Hello @procyonia3654, if you are talking about the built in or bolt on facing slides that come with the boring mills I would agree with you. They are massive enough that they can easily handle the large cutting forces. I was refering to the Wahlhaupter or Criterion style boring heads with 1" or 1.25" bars. They will never be as rigid as the 2" diameter bar set up I had in this video. The main reason is that the bar diameter is much smaller, but it's also because the slide/adjustment set-up is (relatively) flimsy compared to a solid bar. Regarding the out of square I was getting I realized after I recorded that part that my thinking about it was wrong. Column lean combined with boring by feeding using the table wouldn't cause my holes to be at different elevations from the table top, it would simply cause the holes to become slightly oval instead of round. The .0012" difference in hole elevation was likely caused by the table top not being parallel to the bed ways (I know that it is slightly out, I can't remember how much). I was going to remove it from the video but at the last minute decided to leave it in to see if anyone would catch my error in reasoning. When I first set this machine up about 6 months ago I did all the alignement tests after levelling and most of them were within new machine tolerance, including tramming back to the cloumn ways. However, the machine may have moved in that time and over Christmas I plan on checking and correcting the alignments again. Thanks for your input. HBM's are a new world to me and any help is appreciated. Ken
Yeh I was talking the facing head bolt on types. I'd agree with the other type being woefully inadequate. I take it you face mounted the bar you made because the whole was
Don't worry, I never took any of your comments to be negative. Unless someone is obviously clueless and trying to look smart or just being a prick I never take comments as negative but rather someone taking time to try to help me out. I built that bar because this boring mill never came with a facing head. Wotan had them for this machine but it either never had one or it was lost sometime in the past before I got it. Building a bar and bolting it directly to the milling spindle was the most rigid set up I could come up with. I have another job coming up in the early new year where I may have to bore out a hole about 34 inches in diameter. I can't swing the part on my large lathe so I am planning on mounting it on the boring mill (I have some 36" tall angle plates) and then building a half assed boring slide. It will be a piece of steel 6" wide by 36" long by 3" thick and will mount on the milling spindle. I plan on cutting two tee solts the full length and making a stub bar holding plate that can be clamped anywhere along the length of the slide using the tee slots. It won't be able to face but it will allow me to bore out large holes, or turn large outside diameters that aren't too long. Ken
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Well, s**t happens. Glad you were able to fix it.
I know that sick feeling you was describing it doesn’t matter how experienced you are you still get it when a mistake like that happens. Good luck with the repairs. On the plus side the machine and your boring bar are working well 👍👍👍👍
So many things going on sometimes so easy to miss something .Keep on Keeping on
Ooohh Fuk , it's a feeling that comes with the territory . Not what you need on the lead up for Christmas but a good solid recovery solution . You certainly pushed that boring head past it's limits ! My best insert tool for metal removal also has the all important 15 deg lead also . Cheers 🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
It was just before quitting time on a Friday, I had had a good day and my beer fridge was full and waiting for me at home. I thought I'd bore one hole out and start the weekend in a good mood. Talk about kicking the weekend in the nuts. That small boring head was bought about 25 years ago when my only milling machine was a 400lb. mill-drill. It could easily handle anything that could throw at it. The 20,000 lb boring mill proved too much. I really like the new "head" I made and adjusting to size is very easy with the dial indicator set up. As dumb as it sounds my favourite thing about it is the single Allen key adjustement. The 15 degree lead angle kicks ass. The cut you see it taking just after I showed the digital readout moving was .180" deep with a .010" per rev feed rate at 400 rpm. It handled that without any problems. Have a good Christmas Max. Ken
thanks for a great video.....cheers from Florida, Paul
Good save, interesting work. Thanks for sharing.
So much HBM information in your video. Thank you so much. ----Doozer
Sorry, What is HBM....?? Google was no help
@@TheTacktishion Ummm... horizontal boring mill -----D
@@kooldoozer🤷🏻♂️Thanks!
I would like to make a suggestion. I'm not an expert but you can just take it as an opinion and ignore it. Won't hurt my feelings. Mill out every hole to the smallest exact same size as possible (uniform). Then use some thick walled hollow stock (smaller hole than the desired finish) of the same metal grade as the plate and mill the OD to .002 or .003 crush bigger than the Jacking Station hole. Part them off at length. Heat the Jack to about 300 degrees and use liquid nitrogen on the 'sleeves', clamp in a backing plate on the inside of the 'Jacking Station' and dropped the sleeve in to the machined hole. If milled correctly, they would fit the width of the hole, no finish work needed and the crush would preclude the need for welding. So tight it would Never come out. Because the hole is now smaller, there is meat available. Then re-bore the holes to their location and milled to size and not violate the bolt holes. This would avoid over heating and potential warping of welding the holes with filler. The other option is same as above (if welding was needed) but put a heavy chamfer on the Jacking Station holes to welding below the surface where 3 welding passes would be enough. Heat and freeze as above, drop the Sleeve in. Weld in the sleeve. Then re-mill the plate fascia to make it flat, bore and mill the hole to spec. I wouldn't chamfer and weld the inside Jacking Station, the .002 crush would more than hold and only weld the outside. Never the less, you came up with a solution and it worked.
Problem Issues Solutions….repeat!!! PIS-repeat! Tks for sharing as a home hobbyist I am currently in the PIS mode on a build of one…wishing you best results on your MANY and hopefully I can solve my one😂😂 Merry Christmas
Ah man. Good save on the parts. Have a Merry Christmas Ken.
Nice solution, like the boring head you made. Charles
The horizontal borer hole height issue, that could be quite a search. Dialling up the square off the table only tells you the table top is square to the column at that location. The table could have a lean on it, either on the rotary, the cross or long slides, or a combination of all three in varying directions potentially. I would try dialling up the table top for each axis and see what you get. Depending on how the machine was setup also, it’s possible the column was tweaked to square off to the table surface, not the travel. Depends on what the intended purpose of the machine was if it was not perfect to start with. I ran a horizontal whereby the facing slide on the head was perpendicular to the Z-axis (table in/out), but out of square to the X-axis around .10mm in 200mm. Nearly all our work was facing pipes so being square to the X was not important. So if your Z axis is not perpendicular to the column Y axis then you may get this result. Also, if your face milling the spindle may not be square to the table or anything else, the same as the column is. It’s another axis that can wear, sag etc differently to the column Y axis. Head locks can also change the position of the spindle depending on machine condition, adjustment and spindle overhang,
I think we all know that feeling from time to time, the important thing is to get it right in the end.
I think what really happened was..... Your FIL welded them wrong, but rather than passing the blame to him.... You are to kind, and set about to find a way to recover.... and a fine job you did....!!
No, this one is on me. I set up the first one and he welded it and all the others exactly how I set up the first one. Unfortunately for me, I got the first one upside down. What was really frustrating about the whole thing was I knew it would be easy to get it wrong so I spent extra time on the set up and rechecked it several times and still got it wrong. Not a high point in my life by any means.
The recovery was a testament to your creativity. We are all humans, it happens to the best of us.
@ 33:30 Did you have those previous experiences with boring? Because if you think about it. A 45 degree angle will diffuse the force 50% sideways and 50% into the spindel. Creating more sideload. While at 15degree you only have about 25% of the force as sideload and 75% of it going straight into the spindle. Just a quick thought I had.
Could you not have used a line boring setup to reduce the size of the hole, then bore the hole in the correct position?
I'd definitely disagree with what you are saying about not using the facing head with a stub bar.
Did you check tram to your ways? Face Mount a bar and sweep back to the the column ways. Your headstock is probably slightly tipped to produce an out of square like that I'd guess.
The hole size wouldn't change, your centerline would change, if you are trying to check that you'd use a dial indicator from the surface plate to validate they are in line
Hello @procyonia3654, if you are talking about the built in or bolt on facing slides that come with the boring mills I would agree with you. They are massive enough that they can easily handle the large cutting forces. I was refering to the Wahlhaupter or Criterion style boring heads with 1" or 1.25" bars. They will never be as rigid as the 2" diameter bar set up I had in this video. The main reason is that the bar diameter is much smaller, but it's also because the slide/adjustment set-up is (relatively) flimsy compared to a solid bar. Regarding the out of square I was getting I realized after I recorded that part that my thinking about it was wrong. Column lean combined with boring by feeding using the table wouldn't cause my holes to be at different elevations from the table top, it would simply cause the holes to become slightly oval instead of round. The .0012" difference in hole elevation was likely caused by the table top not being parallel to the bed ways (I know that it is slightly out, I can't remember how much). I was going to remove it from the video but at the last minute decided to leave it in to see if anyone would catch my error in reasoning. When I first set this machine up about 6 months ago I did all the alignement tests after levelling and most of them were within new machine tolerance, including tramming back to the cloumn ways. However, the machine may have moved in that time and over Christmas I plan on checking and correcting the alignments again. Thanks for your input. HBM's are a new world to me and any help is appreciated. Ken
Yeh I was talking the facing head bolt on types. I'd agree with the other type being woefully inadequate. I take it you face mounted the bar you made because the whole was
Don't worry, I never took any of your comments to be negative. Unless someone is obviously clueless and trying to look smart or just being a prick I never take comments as negative but rather someone taking time to try to help me out. I built that bar because this boring mill never came with a facing head. Wotan had them for this machine but it either never had one or it was lost sometime in the past before I got it. Building a bar and bolting it directly to the milling spindle was the most rigid set up I could come up with. I have another job coming up in the early new year where I may have to bore out a hole about 34 inches in diameter. I can't swing the part on my large lathe so I am planning on mounting it on the boring mill (I have some 36" tall angle plates) and then building a half assed boring slide. It will be a piece of steel 6" wide by 36" long by 3" thick and will mount on the milling spindle. I plan on cutting two tee solts the full length and making a stub bar holding plate that can be clamped anywhere along the length of the slide using the tee slots. It won't be able to face but it will allow me to bore out large holes, or turn large outside diameters that aren't too long. Ken
I think you're spending to much time in the jacking station.lol
If it was easy everyone would do it.