How Much Protein You ACTUALLY Need to Build Muscle (less than you think)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- There's growing consensus that 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg) is more than what's necessary for optimal muscle protein synthesis. In this video, Dr. Luc van Loon, a renowned figure in the realm of protein metabolism, and Rhonda discuss:
• How much protein you actually need
• Why 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight (2.2 g/kg) isn't necessary for building muscle
• If there are benefits to consuming more than 1.2-1.6 g/kg of protein
• How much protein you should consume when dieting for weight loss
• Will you lose muscle mass if you lower your protein intake from 3 g/kg to 1/5 g/kg?
• Why anabolic resistance could be the result of reduced physical activity
• Protein requirements for overweight & obese individuals
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Summary: he is saying that you only need 1.6g/kg (0.73g/lbs) of protein per day for active people and more is not beneficial, but our bodies adapt to the protein it’s used to so if you eat more then try to reduce it, you lose muscle mass. He pointed out that 20g protein per meal give maximal stimulus to muscle protein synthesis, but as we age that stimulus gets reduced further from the max (anabolic resistance). However, exercise prior to protein intake will allow a more normal stimulus to protein synthesis.
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Great summary 🎉
@@JillCao thanks :)
Did he mention more about the adaption and how it adapts. Where does the protein go? If it's not wasted, then what is it used for? Is the word 'adaption' appropriate here? Is the word 'utilisation' better. The word adaptation neither implies wasting nor utilising. That's a bit weird considering his argument directly depends on this. edit: great summar btw. loved the "arguing".
@@ZeerakImran thanks! No unfortunately he didn’t share much more, it seemed more speculative and said he’d like to see studies showing someone eating 200g protein per day who reduces to 100g, but waits longer than a few days to week (where they do lose muscle mass) to see if it stabilizes.. didn’t seem overly convincing to me haha (granted, this is a clip of a larger conversation so there’s that to keep in mind, but still…)
> he is arguing that you only need 0.8g/kg if protein and more is not helpful
This is not correct, please read the information on-screen at 2:42 and listen to what he's saying just before that. He says that 1.2-1.6 g/kg is likely the optimal amount of intake for building and rebuilding muscle, but that 0.8 g/kg is adequate and hence is the recommended minimum. He does indicate that if you reduce your intake at any point, you can expect to lose some muscle mass, all other things being equal. They're exploring the evidence behind recent claims that 2.2 g/kg is too much and, if so, what the revised recommendations are and why.
Can we see Dr Rhonda sit down with Dr.Mike at RP Strength?
Would love to see that
agree. i'd like to see her talk with athlean-x too
can't wait for all the awkward sexual jokes.
@@jayzee316 you're right.
That would be amazing
5:00 Maintenance of normal protein intake
6:50 1.6-1.8g per kilo of body mass
9:40 Anabolic resistance
Thank you
Scientists have been telling us there is no benefit to higher protein intake my entire life, yet every competitive strength athlete I know says the opposite. In this case I'll take practice over theory.
Most pro athletes are taking juice. Studies are coming out that enhanced athletes need more protein than natural athletes. Stop being ignorant. High level, top of their sport athletes are hyper responders to training and they're taking PEDs. They can do mundane training and still perform at a higher level than you can ever dream of.
Fair
Very fair indeed! Adding higher quality protein should also be seeked upon! Ones that contain the full amino acid profiles seems more effective.
There is no theory here. And this guy was an athlete. He said around 2:45 if you want to be in competitive strength then you want to be on the high end of intake. Like, I assume you watched the video but you and 17 other people need to pay attention if you think he’s talking abstract theory here.
@@shiftyneems yeah, all true, all fact, I know 🙄
1.6 is a significant amount of protein. If you ever tracked you will know this isn’t trivial.
Thanks for adding the side notes so people can pause the video and read them
🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
00:43 *🏋️♂️ Resistance training increases protein synthesis after exercise, aiding muscle adaptation.*
02:35 *🍖 Consuming more than 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram body weight may enhance muscle mass and strength gains.*
03:26 *🍗 Sedentary individuals often consume 1 to 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram body weight naturally.*
05:02 *🏋️♀️ During energy restriction for body composition change, maintaining protein intake helps preserve muscle mass.*
06:39 *🥩 Exercise increases muscle protein synthesis; adding protein post-exercise further enhances adaptation.*
09:52 *🧓 Anabolic resistance in older adults can be overcome by higher protein intake and physical activity.*
13:18 *🏋️♂️ Adjust protein intake based on fat-free mass for accurate needs, especially for overweight individuals.*
Lovely! Gracias
I'm not "dieting". I'm undergoing "energy restriction to change body composition". I'm liking that!
I keep forgetting that he’s talking about gram per kg and constantly am thinking damn, how am I supposed to down 300 grams of protein per day being 175lbs 😅
I think rates of muscle protein synthesis might be very dependent on an individual's genes. Personally, I only eat around 1g/kg bodyweight and have been on a steady lean bulk for the last few years (went from 114lbs to 145lbs in 3.5 years while maintaining visible abs). Granted, that's still not a lot of muscle for someone 5'8" tall, but the fact that I've been able to build muscle with such a low protein intake means that not everyone needs the "recommended" protein intake (if they don't mind not progressing as fast as if they did have a higher protein intake).
Older/elderly building and maintaining skeletal muscle need more.
"(2.2 g/kg) isn't necessary for building muscle" - I don't agree with this in my case. 1,5g/kg to 1,8g/kg was good for me, when I wanted to lose weight. Then I went from 1.8g/kg to 2.2g/kg. Now I have an increase in muscle mass with more intense training.
I’m on 1g per pound of lean weight. And I’m gaining muscle beautifully on Mike Metzner compound and 7 day rest periods.
I’m 210’lean.
So I take 220g to help build.
Occasionally I fast 22 hours to help clean up skin issues from the high protein.
This guy is probably in better shape than the people in these comments. Just saying.
You have to be joking.
you haven't seen me LOL
Including you?
You clearly need to be vaxed more 😂
Ehh, I think a better question would be how much protein would effectively maximize your gains.
Bc as someone who easily puts in muscle I notice the amount of protein significantly affects my weight every few days or so
If your weight is fluctuating that drastically, that'll have to do with carb intake, electrolyte intake, total caloric intake. Protein isn't going to make your weight fluctuate like that.
@@Jdm5299 I’ve already tracked that stuff and came to a conclusion based on what I’ve ate and not through out the week
Wow bad ass build. I don't look as good as you and you probably put muscle on faster than me, but I agree. Having lifted weights a few years ago for almost a decade. If I eat more protein and be a bit active that day with moving slightly heavier objects around, I wake up the next day blown away by how I look in the mirror. Most of it of course isn't muscle and will go away in a few days of me not eating much. So it is the carbs and other stuff. But there is a noticeable and kind of shocking amount of change overnight. It might be the mix of noobie gains and the fact that I already had the muscle before so it builds really quickly. Of course, it would slow down if i kept at it.
You have to ask just how much protein (in g) can be accrued as new muscle every day? Take the number of pounds of muscle you expect to build per month and multiply by 3.7 and that will give you about how much protein (in g) you can add every day.
@@ZeerakImran something I’ve also noticed and having been keeping track of recently is anytime I workout enough to stimulate muscle growth, I’m significantly hungrier the next day. I noticeably crave high protein foods.
Naturally I’m not a big eater at all and use weed to help enlarge my appetite, but like I said when I workout enough to stimulate muscles protein synthesis I won’t need the help of weed.
I usually tend to eat 70g of protein a meal (two meals a day, usually chicken)
About the anabolic resistance its also about not only the age but the Time the older person has not being active
Very good podcast. Regarding protein discussion I believe you should also do a podcast with Lyle McDonald as he has made a great investigation as far as protein.
We are victims of supplement companies...sadly many "evidence based" bodybuilders also want you to "just be sure" and ingest a "nice round number like 1lb/kg"...they are in on supplement sales. 1.6 g/kg for your hypothetical 10% body fat bodyweight is optimal, but 1.3 is still fine and almost the same rate of results. Plus it's all just a minor factor modulating your resistance training results. Tinker with your RT, not your protein.
I think this is the best advice here! People spend countless hours researching and optimizing their protein intake for increased gains, while the amount of protein is only a small factor in determining anabolic outcome, especially compared to the impact of the amount of training volume. Spend all that time and effort into a few extra sets! :)
if you are old and can't get your calories in, the protein supplements are good.
2 grams protein per pound and 1 grams
Of test.
Great one and thanks for the clarifying question related to grams of protein per kg of body mass (gram per lean body mass)
Almost the end conversion, I do not agree with is opinion for my case .
Activity did not work for my weight lose , it was insulin resistance on my body, I went to carnivore… still has belly fat .
Over 6 months I worked out over 400 classes: hilt hot yoga
Weight
Pilates
… it is hormone
Hello, you also might be iver doing it, recoveey is as crucial as training bcs it is refuelling too as for the next session or you will nit improve 🙏
He just confirmed that the protein itself is not the energy and for some extend should not be the part of energy balance, say, 1g per 1kg
the problem is protein is a word which describes many different things, all of which perform different functions in our bodies. Protein may not itself be broken down to release energy effectively, but it may take part in the process which allows for the breakdown of other food molecules. For example, all of the enzymes are made of protein. So are all of the cells. Everything is made of protein. Protein isn't one thing it's pretty much what makes up everything organic. Biology isn't my speciality so I maybe wrong here but I wanted to share this point. I find it weird that I have to and the experts don't. I didn't finish the entire video though so maybe they did. I didn't find it valuable unfortunately. Wish them the best though and I can't say that I know enough to discredit them. But personally, I'm not going to take their input too seriously.
Should the amount of protein be “bio available”? Or is the figure 1g/pound the amount that is listed on the packaging ? I ask because the amount of protein consumed that you s bioavailable is less than the amount listed on packaging. Thank you.
Grams on the packaging. It also assumes at least half your total protein comes from high quality sources like meat, eggs and dairy. Vegetarians probably need more
@@rockyevans1584 Thank you !
I figured this, because when I used to go 1g per 1lb, I would go to the Doctor's for quarterly panels, and I always had protein in my urine. And the Doctors always wanted further testing. The minute I went lower, it cleared up.
Funny 😂 no mention of using weights to failure 🤗 and hard core training…
I really struggle to get my 1 per £
I’m 200 pounds and struggle to get above 150g a day
Even on leg day (highest calorie day) 200gs a day is tough and I get digestive problems
I have to resort to adding a protein shake in to get there
Some people I know in real lifr actually consume too little protein like 30g a day, it is not as uncommon
I’ll just stay at a gram per pound. I eat moderate level of other macros so it keeps me satiated.
I’ve always said that it’s LESS than you think.
So I made it to become one of the world's strongest athletes when I was 17 years old. Naturally. With adequate protein but not excessive.
Im not fat, im big boned
I increased my daily eggs from 3 to 5 for breakfast.
1.6g per kg. That’s what all the studies say. For most of us, that’s not much higher than 150g a day, maximum. Now, get on with it
To be honest even 1gm/kg is challenging to meet every day. They talk as if its child’s play to get 1.2-1.3gm
4 meals with 35 grams of lean protein = 140 grams of protein, almost double the amount of protein for a man with a normal weight. Meal 1: 3 eggs and 100 grams of fish, meal 2: 150 gram of chicken breast, meal 3: a whey protein shake, meal 4: a small bowl with curd/quark. It isn't that challenging to get 1 grams of protein per kg of body weight. That is just 3 of the meals i described a day.
@@octaviano1296 Can’t have 4 meals a day. I do not have that much appetite. If I try to eat that much, I feel extremely bloated. Nor is there time to cook that much food. With work and all, I get to cook only once a day. I generally do 2 heavy meals and try to have 25-30+ grams of protein in each meal. That takes my tally to 50-70 grams of protein for a body weight of 72kg.
@@vibhavdeshpande8196 Can you add one - just one - whey protein shake a day?
@@vibhavdeshpande8196 if you’re Indian, you need to go a bit heavy on high quality milk (2 glasses a day) and optionally a scoop of whey as supplement if you’re also working out.
@@vibhavdeshpande8196try to aim for two meals at 40 grams protein per meal. Then throw in a 40gram protein shake sometime in the day. That will get you to 120 grams daily and should be plenty to achieve your goals
I’m sorry but I found this guy hard to follow
It had good informative content
“Lot of questions there.” =
This guy talks and looks at Rhonda like he’s not so used to talking with an intelligent woman.
Easily get 1.2 grams per lbs of bodyweight??? Nah, it isn't easy. Very difficult to eat that much.
kg, not pounds.
Our bodies turn over apx 300 grams of protein on a daily basis - so why not edge it slightly and not skimp on protein intake but that said - no need to go OTT on it either. I think each of us needs to eat as much as WE can tolerate along with our fiscal budget.
0.8 to 1 grams per lb of lean body weight sounds reasonable compromise - but in grams terms, the consensus I have come across is that females should be aiming for at least 100 grams of complete protein and males in the range of 120, maybe 130 grams, as a minimum daily intake.
There's no way your body is churning out 1200 calories worth of amino acids even if you were starving yourself, gluconeogenesis don't work like that. Especially if you were exercising.... unless your 700lbs of muscle 😮 and diabetic
yes that's what I eat, and I am dong a program 'based on science' and I feel great and look great. so yes, I'll stick to it.
I eat .80 grams per pound of bodyweight as a minimum every day
The amount of information is overwhelming from different ppl across the world. It seems to all be noise. Everyone is different. Thus, diet and workouts are different. You have to find out what works for you. Next week, you'll hear someone contradict this guy, and so on and so on
So right. I sometimes have a break from YT because it gets so ridiculous with constantly changing stuff, I think the problem is academics have to keep churning out stuff for their careers and so we get a ton of conflicting stuff. the longevity science is annoying, we are not worms or rats.
If 20 g of protein per meal yields max protein synthesis, how can someone eat 1 meal per day containing 1 g protein/lb of bodyweight and gain or maintain muscle. It seems they would lose a bunch of muscle by only getting 20 grams worth of synthesis activity in response to that meal. The truth is the more you eat, the longer it takes to digest as a result of things like cck production, so protein synthesis can be spread out over longer periods of time using larger amounts of protein. Meal frequency and size must play into this story. Also, when figuring out protein needs, we need to also take into account the other things amino acids do: support neurotransmitter production, immune system function/status, nitrogen balance and all of its relevant factors, support bone mass, etc, and also micronutrients that along with the protein like B vitamins, zinc, heme iron etc. We wonder why all these weird debilitating conditions are becoming more prevalent and happen at younger and younger ages.
lol someone eating once a day wouldn't only eat 20g of protein. when people say 20g per meal they're on about several meals throughout the day
someone did not watch the whole podcast
I have a question. Say you are 275 lbs or 125 kgs and you are 30% body fat which gives and a lean body mass of 170 lbs. So protein in take is based on total weight or lean body mass? And what if you wanted to be 250lbs. Should you then calculate the lean body mass for that weight, and use that for the protein calculation? So is the 1 grm/pound of body weight gross weight or lbm and is it based on your weight now or the weight you want to be?
Base your protein intake on the weight you want to be. 250grams if your goal is 250 pounds.
ideal body weight.
lean body mass until you're under 20%, then do whole body.
@@dorzhowe1305 250g is ludicrous
He doesn’t know @8:40
Guys! Keep it simple!! Weigh and measure yourself.. start on a lower level of protein then train for a month... weigh and measure again...if you are not making progress....just add another bag of chicken each week....repeat until you're making small progress monthly, no science needed or books for $50.
You don't need to add protein. Protein can basically always remain stable, it's only if you're cutting down and are already under 20%m/30%f that you might want to raise it to a g per lb. Yes, weigh yourself. If you aren't growing around 0.5% bw every week or two, add 200 to 300 calories daily and try to hit that rate of weight gain.
No read books good. Read books bad. Me cave man 👹
Hoe much protyein i need to l;ook like ronny colermanm?
He ate like 300g-500g a day.
He is fed up with the nonsense 😂
Get more vaxed. I think 5x more would help you. Obey 🤓
I don't necessarily agree with this gentleman. It sounds like he has an extremely conservative view. The topic. I am sure if he did research into new studies. His view would be a little more educated and modern
This guy is so wrong. The average diet, American, Mediterranean, Asian, middle-eastern, Indian, etc doesn’t come close to his sedentary target of 1.3g / kg
he is wrong. I struggle to get 100g of protein daily even when trying. regarding the "you're getting enough protein if you're in an energy balance", I don't get that argument. Protein is the building block for your body. You can be at an energy balance at a low calorie intake and a high calorie intake. So yes, your body does adapt to it. It adapts to it by using those additional resources for the things it needs and sacrificing those things when it doesn't have very much of that resource. The body prioritises protein synthesis for your body over building neurotransmitters for your brain for example. Because being depressed, anxious, manic, stupid, incapable... are all preferred to not having the enzymes required to digest foods. You'll still be alive, even if you wish you were dead. The point is, yes, if you give me more money, I'll spend more. But that's not a bad thing. Being impoverished and malnourished isn't the goal. Your body will do a fantastic job of keeping you alive with regards to caloric intake and energy balance (since the next step is death). You're not exactly in an ideal situation by setting up your home there. The average (median) US male (in his 30s) is 5ft9 and 200lbs (90.72kg). I live in the UK and I know the US loves to eat, but I don't see the median average man getting 117g of protein daily in the US. The average for the uk is 5ft9 190lb (86.18Kg). We don't eat as much fast food here so that protein number is going to be way lower. I have found survey data which suggests 70-90g of protein daily to be consumed by the average male in his 30s in the uk. This would make his US protein claim valid. But, that's a survey. Which is a big no no specially when it comes to a topic like protein. The fact that they had their sample of people note the foods and beverages that they consumed for 3-4 days pretty much invalidates the data. From personal experience, people who say that they eat a lot, don't eat all that much. They think they do because they did that one time 3 weeks ago and that other time 2 months ago. But every other day, they've been drinking coffee and living off of one and a half meals a day. In this case, the sample of people are conscious about their food for that duration. Anyone who has lifted weights or tried to get bigger knows how hard it is to hit 100g+ of protein consistently daily. That's why whey protein is so popular. It sure tastes like crap and we force it down and feel bloated if we didn't pay for the super expensive hydrolysed version. If there was an alternative, we would do it. 100g of protein doesn't seem much on paper but it's the fact that you have to average that daily that's the issue. Finally, let's say that everything that has been claimed is true. Fair enough. But, there are a lot of people like me who don't enjoy eating and definitely don't get the daily amount of protein in unless they are conscious about it and force themselves to have it with protein shakes. The delivery of this message doesn't take into consideration the existence of people like us. Luckily, i still force myself to eat. When I'm abroad or on holiday, i eat a lot. I love to eat. The food tastes amazing. But working everyday, you have no energy left here in the UK to come home and cook food. If you do that and shower, you'll be at your workplace before you can say hi to yourself. Also, the price of eating out in the Uk is really high for the majority of people. Moving countries changes my food intake and protein amount too.
@@ZeerakImran
i struggled so hard to get in my protein, simply because i didnt have enough energy to care.
I solved that issue by making over night oats that contain enough protein, so i just have to take it out of the fridge in the morning and eat. Takes a lot less willpower too.
For lunch i precooked beef patties, chicken breasts, and schnitzel and froze them. So if i eat a big salad for lunch i just have to throw one of my precooked meats in the microwave and done.
For dinner i eat protein bread, and just normal stuff on top, so easy to do.
In the afternoon i have a protein shake, but i first eat an apple or similar fruit and have no problems with bloating/protein farts. Ever.
Works really great so far.
Oh and i split my creatine up into 2x 3.5g because i would have gotten stomach issues if i took 7g at once (going by 1g/10kg of fat free bodyweight).
other supplements i take are d3/k2 and omega3, but i dont think they make a difference for protein synthesis or stomach problems.
Agree. I suspect he's used to thinking of very meat-heavy diets as normal. Most of the world doesn't eat meat with every meal, or even every day.
@@ZeerakImranThe average 5’9 man should not weight more than 165-170lb unless he has a lot of muscle. 200lb is absurd in terms of what should be “normal.” Especially when we’re talking about “lean body mass.” You’d have to be 6’2 or taller before you get to the 200lb range
@@jaimemetcher388Well meat _should_ be a heavy part of your diet. The fabled “blue zones” have high protein diets.
He doesn’t know…no one does. We know the basics…it’s obvious we need protein to build muscle but how much is optimal…does it really matter? We aren’t talking about 300lb people in this case…f it and just train if u are fit and eat.
And yet another subjective video where who the hell knows who’s right or wrong…….
says a guy who is not even In shape
His physical condition has nothing to do with it. He's here as an expert on the demonstrable *science*, not in his personal practice of physical fitness.
Lol what a stupid stupid comment. Do you have to go to jail to know you broken a law? Fool
@@strategicsage7694 whatever. if you can't apply your own "knowledge" to yourself, then why would people listen? go write in a. journal and don't get a on visual podcast
@@devangpatel5227 because that has nothing to do with whether the information is true or not. If somebody knows something useful that can help, it doesn't matter if they personally are at their ideal weight or they are 500 lbs. Good info is good info.
@@strategicsage7694 i only listen to experts who are jacked like Joe Rogan and the Liver King.
Here is the bottom line everyone: Eat .926548 of protein per lb of body weight. You eat more you gain nothing additional you eat any less you lose .0526523 lb a day of muscle. This is 100% accurate
My ideal weight is about.160...just being active, not specifically "training"...and i find that i need to average abour 120 grams to.maintain....obciously some days aee 100 ans some are 150...but...average 120 grams of protejn seems to be a minimum
In Peter Attia and Luc Van Loon podcast, Both of them agreed that the RDA of 1.8g/kg/day is sub-optimal, u need 2-2.2g/kg/day for optimal muscle gain in exercise
why's he contradicting here?