Did The Traitor Primarchs Have a Point? | Warhammer 40k Lore
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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The Traitor Primarchs are given a lot of grief for betraying the Emperor, but did they have a point? Was their betrayal justified?
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False Gods (Novel)
A Thousand Sons (Novel)
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Regardless if his betrayal was goofy or not, we can all agree the Big Magical Giant looks awesome
Only about 50% stock remains, pick him and his honour guard up here : www.majorminis.com.au/products/big-magical-giant
Hello Majorkill,
Would you kindly make some lore videos on the Imperial Truth, the Imperial Creed, the Ecclesiarchy? Pretty please? Thank you.
Hey majorkill you should cover the Chad named Creed was the commander during cadia and is the leader of the guardsmen
Damn, that's a good looking mini
Majorkill! Why not a video of Horus, through a bullshit plot or not, managed to corrupt the loyalists instead of the traitors and how the traitors fair against them instead??? Brainstorm like say the trap for the angel worked and for fun!!😂😂😂
"This man right here, Inquisitor"
Where inquisitor?
( eagerly loads bolter )
@@lordInquisitoryou crazy?! It will brack your back. That is what flamers are for.
Hahaha! 😂
@@vladimirmihnev9702 they come in sizes for humans citizen
Emperor: "You have proven yourself trustworthy to Me in this Great Crusade! Therefore I trust you with the title of Warmaster! Entrusting you to finish conquering the galaxy in My place."
Horus: "Thank You, Father. I am honored of Your trust in me."
Emperor: "And now I shall leave and return to Terra."
Horus: "I see. You're going to help Uncle Malcador in stabilizing the Administratum and smooth things out?"
Emperor: "Ohohohoho! I have much bigger plans than that!"
Horus: "What are they?"
Emperor: "Sorry son. I can't tell you."
Horus: "But why?"
Emperor: "Because I don't trust you."
That last line reads like a bad soap opera, Riverdale-type melodrama if you will. Yet it lead to one of the most long lasting civil wars in galactic history, like some unintentional dumb comedy.
Lol, I hope that the mechanicus/custodes install some sort of text to verbalisation device into the golden throne to ask the Emperor to reflect on this particular exchange
The custodes could pay the mechanicus in like....fridges or something.
Might make a decent episode in a fanmade youtube series of sorts........😉😉
If I recall, didn't malcador and the emperor play their game and the Big E essentially said that who ever is the Warmaster would fall and turn traitor?
@@jkee9760 ye i remember that too, from one of the HH books/stories. They knew Chaos/the Old Four would mess with the warmaster. Big reason Sanguinius was not selected; his fall might have been even more devastating. From the same story; nobody knew what the Khan would do, not even Emps was sure. His comment: feature,not a bug
@@koolunit "who ever is going to be in this position will fall and become traitor" "...why did you put your favorite son in that position and not someone who sucks *cough* Lorgar *cough* ?" "....plot reasons"
Big E should have told the Primarchs that He is totally heading back to Terra so He can stabilize the Imperial government with His Best Buddy Malcador.
The Big E should've just acted like 10% more human instead of a unfeeling, all knowing, anti/ shining example of a God.
Even if he Big E told them the truth, they still would have complained.
The issue with that is then Guilliman would've wanted to tag along
@@robertnelson9599not that much, they probably thought that he would be researching their replacements, but if he would at least hinted his work, everything could go other way.
I would really like a video reimagining each of the loyalist legions as if they were traitors, and the traitors as if they were loyalists... feel like there is a lot of material there as we already talk about each of their virtues and flaws to figure out how it turned out the way it did.
The Emperor of Mankind did kinda screw up with the Council of Nikaea. He basically banned the niche that he designed an entire legion around- psykers.
All of that to satisfy the space furry.
Which is even dumber when you realize their fursona only actual good point was that they were more loyal than most
Mortarion would have hated either way and still went crazy
It really didn’t help that the Thousand Sons and Magnus took practically no caution when it came to the warp. The Emperor didn’t tell Magnus everything about chaos. But he gave him very clear warnings and advice. Especially when it came to just how dangerous the warp was.
Magnus, like always, was too arrogant. Thinking he didn’t have to worry about these dangers.
It's not that simple. At the very end of the Burning of Prospero, even the Thousand Sons realized that the Emperor was right. The Warp betrayed them and in the finale they decided to fight as Astartes, which turned out to be just as effective.
If only Magnus had more wisdom, the Council of Nikaea might have ended in his favor. There was a moment at the Council when the Emperor realized that despite all his knowledge and intelligence, Magnus did not understand the dangers of the warp.
@@dumbidea1007 leman russ was right
@@ashotbombila4675Both sides of the Council were wrong, Russ moreso. Magnus wanted free use of the warp, which is insane, whilst Russ wanted it completely outlawed whilst hypocritically keeping the Rune Priests. The Emperor’s biggest mistake was siding with one of them. Completely outlawing the warp removes a great asset of an entire legion, whilst implementing no restrictions would lead to absolute anarchy. The Stormseers had it right, allow use of the Warp but heavily controlled and restrained.
You also gotta remember that 2 Primarchs were already wiped from history in the lore before the Heresy, so Perturabo probably feared that if he said no to the Emperors orders he would be next.
This also goes for a lot of the fuckery that the Primarchs did, for they feared they would be wiped out as well
That’s a good point, I forget that part potentially influencing their motives
Not only were the II and the XI wiped out along with their legions, but the Primarchs were tasked with doing it too
The fact that Horus hasn't received the same treatment means either the Emperor is the only one who can order that, or whateve 2 and 11 did was worse than what Horus did, and I'm not sure what's worse than kneecapping mankind and committing genocide and murder.
@@gamer47e17 The Primarchs have weird Warp affinity. Maybe the II and the XI were too "Warp-y" and corrupted right off the butt, but that's just my head canon.
@@iurk0_streaming I can think of maaaaybe 5 things.
1: They were corrupted by the warp, or maybe even the deep warp, becoming more demonic than any other primarch in their pursuit of chaos.
2: Sided with xenos against Big E, maybe the Eldar, maybe not, but were killed for standing up to the genocide and xenophobia. Sad, but a possibility.
3: They were both criminals. Murderers, rapists, thieves, pedos, they were scum, so evil that the filth their names carried was too abhorrent for their status as primarchs to clear.
4: They were pacifists, they refused to fight for Big E, and as a result, killed for their insubordination and 'weakness.'
5: Probably a bit too fanfic-y but they took someone, maybe each other, or just a regular mortal, or a xeno, as a lover, and Big E was so disgusted that they strayed from their roles, that they were killed for just having those feelings.
Damn if Emperor heard about Olympia he would most likely say such horrible things like "Good job Perty" or "Im proud you didn't hesitate to pecify your homeworld"
He'd probably open a cask to reveal a bottle of fine wine labeled 'Perturabo' and say he prepared this for the day his Perty became a man, and he now was with his first true violent suppression genocide on a planetary scale.
No, he would have issue.
Perty killed his sister- something Big E would take issue with and something he would not look past.
Perty would be stained forever pretty much.
Meanwhile Imperial Fists would have that wiped away in his perception because, yeah.
A victory gained for the imperial fists even one of warcrimes and dishonor is still treated with honor.
Meanwhile Perty does anything for results and he is judged for any crimes and his successes are mostly ‘yup, tally it up and get going’
@@silent_stalker3687 same emps that tolerated Angron and Konrad for years? Perty could have kicked 10 babies and a puppy and he would give no fuck because he punished treacherous world
Pft, and? The Emperor stole Angron away from all his blood brothers to let them all be killed because it was slightly quicker than dealing with the planet. You think he gives a shit about familial ties? He probably literally doesn't even understand the concept of a family.
@@silent_stalker3687 he tolerated Angron and Curze for decades because they got the job done and you think he would be mad at Perty for literally doing the one thing he created him for?
Yes, great logic for Morty: let's get Khan to back him up against chaos sorcerers, the same Khan who has dedicated, respected sorcerers in his legion
Except they are shamans invoking the storms of Chogoris a lot like the Wolf Priests of the Space Wolves.
@@MrFallenone so sorcerers with extra steps.
Morty is tough. Nobody ever said he was the smart one.
He didn't do it because of psykers or lack thereof, he did it because he thought that JK being an outsider might feel he was a kindred spirit.
@@MrFallenone which are psykers but more safe, which changes nothing considering Morty hated everything warp related. And Khan wouldn't let anyone shittalk his people
Glad to see Majorkill finally came full circle on Angron. From “should have been aborted” to “I totally back him.”
The lore has also changed that's why
Tbf, in current lore Big E failed Angron EVERY SINGLE TIME
@@LeonGabrielM other than Girlyman, the black giant , space furry and dorn the builder he failed everyone
To be fair you can say "Angron totally should have gone traitor after the way Big E treated him" but still also say "Big E should have just aborted Angron". They aren't completely incompatible points of view.
@@craigo1981 the second statement is why horus became traitor. Especially after the dissapearnce of every evidence of existence of the two primarchs that got disposed. I am pro traitor as long as emperor still exists. I support the imperium nonetheless
Damn man you've changed, not shitting on angron at every chance and instead backing the Angy boy
He did do a video a while back admitting that, while Angron is probably the worst of them, a lot lit of that is from circumstances beyond his control.
Guess he actually read his Lore by now.
The butcher’s nails basically lobotomized Angron due to being incompatible with his Primarch brain, it’s hard to hate a lobotomy victim. Apparently the nails were constantly shredding Angron’s brain while his brain constantly regenerated which led to the butcher’s nails becoming part of his brain making them impossible to remove.
A video on if magnus took the emperors replacement legion would be dope, so i will continue asking. (Would also be good since a magnus model was just released)
Aren't they basically the Grey Knights?
Yes
@@TheWarmachine375 yeah Magnus was offered the Grey Knights to replace the K-Sons who the Emperor believed could not be saved
@@thecommentguy9380 It's even led by Janus, the noble shard of Magnus given a body of his own.
For a video I guess but lore wise it would just be a total victory
Honestly I still like Mortarion and his fall. His resentment of the emperor does have nuance, he's just not mature enough to rise above it. His style of war is something not suited to the imperium and he knows is as seen on Galaspar. There are some lines in dark imperium that I think genuinely capture mortarions guilt and feelings on the matter, guilt that he let the empower take him from barbarus, guilt that he had become what he hated. "I was once a champion of common people, I abandoned it for a galactic despot" he never should have joined the crusade, just like angron and kurze. Even now he hates himself almost as much as he hates the imperium and his brothers. He is an unwilling servant and that's what makes him great, seeing him lie to himself is a compelling and almost pitiable action, and it makes me love his debate with Guilliman even more. He wanted a father that wasn't a tyrant, he didn't get it, he wanted to win or lose on his own merits, he didn't get it. And he was forced to become something horrible that he hates, and can do nothing to change it, so he lies to say he isn't the foul monster he is. I would love to hear the timeline when he didn't fall, he was such a bastion of strength and resilience, and would have been a strong ally for the loyalists at the siege. I still love him as a character. And hey, he's less of a hypocrite to psykers than Russ *ahem* "wolf priests"
THANK SOMEONE ELSE UNDERSTANDS!!!
absolutely based and true, kudos mate
I also feel like he hated the emperor as he has just freed himself from the first tyrant, only to be captured by another. In his book he makes it clear he hates tyrants (which is why he is so poetic and ironic) and big E being a psyker, the second bigest thing he hated didn't help. And it is clear that morty is not all bad. The reason why he submitted was because his legion (and himself) would be tortured forever. Morty was free from tyrants, but to save his legion from eternal suffring he decided to become a slave once again.
While all that is true, he's still a butthurt child throwing a 10,000 year tantrum because daddy had to step in and make an adult call over him dying to the final tyrant.
All of this.
Additionally, Mortarion's fall came in stages, which we get to see play out. He respected Horus and when given a chance, the ONLY chance, to overthrow the Emperor (tyrant and wytch in his eyes), Mortarion took it.
Partly out of desperation, for when and by who else could the now dominant Imperium and Emperor be challenged?
Partly out of bitterness, because the Pale King believe the Emperor robbed him of his vengeance.
Party out of hope of all things. Because he wanted to save the common people from a tyrant and the predation of warpcraft.
Then Horus' cause turned beyond rotten. Mortarion was up to his eyes in it and didn't even see the rot in his own Legion. Granted, this is due to being handed the plot mandated idiot ball. The only reason Typhus wasnt gutted 20 times over is the same reason Erebus and Kor Phareon aren't smears on the ground. Plot.
Regardless, Motarion is surrounded by the warp. So, he tries to master it. Recoils, swearing he will never use it again.
But he does. Bit by bit.
Then at the final hour, he turns to save his Legion from unending pain.
Yes, much of his action was motivated by petty, spiteful, bitterness, but it isn't the idiocy of the Angron or Curze. It's a step by step walk into damnation for, however twisted by mental and physical scars, for a noble goal.
I love how everyone goes "Yeah, Angron was justified", Big E really fucked up the most with him
I think an overlooked part of Horus's fall is that he was in the Warp for thousands of years, from his perspective. Loyalist Horus and Traitor Horus were literally thousands of years removed from each other.
It happens in Vengeful Spirit by Graham McNeill. It's one way to make Horus irredeemable, but it comes off a little handwavy and it mostly happens off screen. It's like Goku coming out of the Hyperbaric Time Chamber with a power up, but we don't see the training sequence.
"Over there Inquisitor..."
Great to see you again Majorkill! Plenty of food for thought. The fall of Magnus is definitely the saddest of the bunch…and you’re not wrong, Angron was destined to revolt
SO MUCH T-SONS STUFF SO FAST! Now we know what Majorkills second or third army is haha
Eldar, Custodes and Dark Angels. Maybe he's going to make a Chaos army, and if he does, we all know it's going to be...
@@Bruce-ez6zd true! I forgot about his dark angels
I don’t think there was ever a chance of a post Great Crusade life for Angron and Curze. I think the only real “good” option was sending them away from the Imperium to the edges of the galaxy to fight and die, like the ghost stars for example. Otherwise they most likely would have gotten the Thunder Warrior treatment since they wouldn’t fit in the Imperium way of life
Ghoul stars
I think no one is coming to the defense of the Night Lords, but the World Eaters had social ties to the other Legions, this would upset some of the Primarchs.
I can feel the warp overtaking me
It is a good pain.
Do you hear the voices too?!?!
Sanity is for the weak
CHAAAAAAAAARRRGGGGEE!
I can feel the warp coming inside me
Good ol' Trazyn pulling time travel fuckery. Steals emperors children gene seed and just happens to get a perfect clone of fulgrim later. Tricky tricky.
Hippity hoppity this is my property
It's because he woke up earlier than most other Necron Lords or Dynasties, pretty sure he later traded the gene seed to Fabius Bile in exchange for Clonegrim
@@azurehorizon6097 i'm sure he traded all of it, too
@@BanderX319 He most likely did as well, Fabius Bile could actually put that pristine and uncorrupted Emperor's Children Gene Seed to use, it's just a shame that Trazyn is just a way for GW to end a story they don't intend on continuing
@@azurehorizon6097 more than likely, but one can hope
Perty said he was unable to forgive himself for Olympia even if others did in Angel Exterminatus. He had a complex about breaking oaths, so once he failed the Emperor, he couldn't accept it. Even if the Emperor forgave him, he couldn't forgive himself.
Lorgar:
When god gives you lemons, you FIND A NEW GOD!
Majorkills largest character arc: going from saying Angron is the worst Primarch for going traitor to actually backing him because his reason is the only justifiable one.
Attempt number 74: what if the Primarchs were found in order of their creation.
JOIN ME MY BROTHERS!!
The mere fact that the emperor had already purged a previous incarnation of the space marine experiment would be good cause to worry about their future.
Soldiers are very often mistreated after war.
I like how now days you are pretty chill towards non-deamon Angron. When way back when you shat in him a fair bit. Just nice to see, but yeah only the angriest boy had a legitimate reason.
Konrad has his reasons, he didn’t follow the weak minded Horus he just wanted to say F You DAD.
Absolute Fulgrim slander. The Laerblade had a greater demon of Slaanesh in it. None of the primarchs at this point (aside from Lorgar maybe?) knew about chaos or its corrupting power. Only the Lion, Guilliman, Dorn, and maybe Sanguinius would've successfully resisted. Any other primarch would've fallen to the Laerblade. The things anti-Fulgrim bias does to a mf
Don't rule out Corvus. He had an innate ability to sense things and see them for what they really are.
Nah. I'd win against a greater demon. I'm just built like that
Russ too, being by the emperor's own words incorruptible. And Perturabo, with his skepticism for the warp.
@themather1 1. Anything the emperor says should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm not sure the context of this statement. However, if he's saying it out loud, then it may very well be a lie, and even if it's the emperor's own internal monologue, he's not as infallible as he believes himself to be (for example, Angron, Curze, Lorgar, Horus, Mortarion, Fulgrim, Perturabo, and Magnus all betray the imperium whether directly or indirectly because of the emperor). As well as Russ being one of the most emotional, and one of the most gullible primarchs, a keeper of secrets (that he didn't know existed) would've had no problem manipulating him.
2. Perturabo feels that way about the warp and chaos primarily due to all the traitor primarchs around him going insane and losing themselves. Fulgrim's fatal flaw was his insecurity. Even then, he was one of the most loyal primarchs before his fall. Take all of Fulgrim's insecurity with none of his loyalty to the emperor, and you have Perturabo. It would've been child's play for a keeper of secrets (who he didn't know existed) to manipulate him.
So from what I'm understanding
Fulgrim: Self doubt got the better of him, then got corrupted by the sword
Perturabo: Was desperate for affection and acknowledgment
Conrad Kurze: Driven insane by his visions and nihilism
Angron: His rage from the Nails, as well as being dehumanized and used
Mortarion: Overwhelmed with bitterness, and was unable to admit to his mistakes
Magnus: Got dicked over by Big E, thenw asn't put back together fully (as I understand it)
Horus: Massive ego, and was tricked and manipulated with his pride and insecurity
Lorgar: Had a crisis of faith, and couldn't accept nonbelief
Alpharius: Was shown a maybe true vision that basically showed humanity and Chaos mutually destroyed, and assumed the Emp wanted Chaos dead at any cost, even humanity's
Imo Horus’s fall was because of insecurity about never equaling the emperor (because he was the only person he compared himself to) also he thought he was saving the imperium because he he saw what the future held. He didn’t immediately fall to chaos he just turned traitor in the beginning. The trick chaos played on Horus was showing him the actual future (40k), but not telling him who caused that future!
thank you for reminding me of the verbal annihalation Jaghatai delivered to Mortarion on Prospero
I’m glad you’re partnering with 3D art guy. He’s one of the best warhammer designers. Everything always looks *chef’s kiss*
I actually really like how the final moment, Horus making his decision, is shrouded in internal mystery. Did he, at the end of his nobility, truly believe he was doing the right thing, or did he lie to himself in pursuit of ambition, just like his father?
Hmmmm.... that Big Magical Giant could probably use some MAGNETS to hold it together...
Day 87 of asking for a dedicated series of videos detailing in depth the Lion El'Heresy
Chaos wins
Unlike sentimental Horus the Lion had no one
Teatd 3 ends differently
Maybe you should take that as a hint?
A video of the top ten community made wholesome moments would be great
Love your channel brother keep it up
Can I just say that I really like all the not!40k names you come up with for your minis?
Horus's fall was incremental IMHO. And it was all down to the treatment of him and his 2 fallen brothers memory by Malcador. He had there names and deeds erased and the total disregard for the surviving statue of one of them with a flippant remark about it was going to make great flooring when destroyed. Plus the creation of the council of Terra was seen by him as a betrayal to him because these base humans had not suffered and forged the Imperium in blood like him, his sons and brothers had. And these base humans tried to order him and the Legions around. His betrayal was to ensure that deeds done by him, his sons and his brothers would never be erased by someone like Malcador.
Not incremental - it was "nothing" 0, "nothing much" -1, "annoyed" -2, "annoyed and loud" -4, (stabbed by Magic Chaos Blade, Dies, Gets Manipulated by Erebus But Decides To Go Along With It All Anyway, Reborn as "Chosen One"), "Traitor" -100. Horus just lept off a cliff after taking two steps down. There was no attempt to mediate, to find other ways, to try to fix the problems. Just notice, then complain, then turned to Chaos and burning down the galaxy.
Not incremental.
Perty is always a sad case, literally all he needed was a hug.
The emperor could’ve literally sidestepped Angrons’ betrayal so easily. The excuse of having already made a treaty with the planet makes no sense to me. He brought many other warlords and planets under his heel. He could’ve earned his respect so easily. One of the worst pieces of 40k history to this day.
Yes Inquisitor, this man right here.
Majorkill still not understanding the Alpha Legion, classic
I just had an idea. The Chaos Gods could've used the Dark King plot point, aka Big E. becoming another Chaos God and dooming humanity to convince him to rebel. After all, Horus kept yapping he wanted to save humanity from his father.
But then again, the idea probably wasn't on the menu yet.
Angron has grown on me over the years as my favorite demon primarch, actually tragic
Make a male version of the calendar now!!!!!!!
Give us the himbo hentai.
No.
Bro just wants to see majorkill 😭
11:35 when you try to play 4D chess on a checkers board.
In short:
Angron: All reasons to hate the Emperor
Lorgar: Trauma induced by the Emperor made him vurnerable to chaos, but I belive his reasons were also understable
Mortarion: The biggest hipocryte within 40k, even bigger than his father
Alpharius: The biggest moron amongst Primarchs
Perturabo: a focking man-child which would have been forgiven or even appreciated ifbhe for once speak his mind out loud
Horus: Mixed, at one hand he saw future of 40k, on the other his own ambition got better of him which Chaos used to its advantage.
Fulgrim: most belivable fall to chaos due to slow snd insidious corruption
Magnus: I understand why he turned in the end, but I also call it a little Malcador fault, for denying him a chance to fuse with his noble part
Konrad: A second most stupid Primarch of the Heresy. He could stop EVERYTHING buuuuut noooo, I coudn't become an edge lord othewise(but suprisigly, his legion had more understable reasons to join Horus)
My opinion: An entire thing could have been prevented, if few(theoretically) most inteligent beings humans history came to conclusion, that honest, open converastion about dangers they were about to face and what really was at stake. I mean, if Mortarion new the end goal, he would propably stayed loyal, Alpharius too in not idiotic way. Maybe Fulgrim would came to conclusion that his sword is possesed, if he knew such thing is even possible?
Mortarion's a hypocrite ~🤡
Konrads was believable when you realise how is childhood shaped him, his nihilist attitude and lack of fucks for the crusade plus all in the insanity. He didn't care about his own legion let alone the emperor or the crusade. He's pretty much the joker in space that was let loose.
@@alfieingrouille1528I mean, he is to a degree. He saw the people he side with become the things he hated, but still fought with them against the person who outlawed an entire legion’s strength just to appease him.
I'd say yes to all this except Lorgar. He was already on his way well before the Emperor gave him a spanking. Let's not forget the Emperor gave them a clear set of orders (conquer worlds and bring them into the fold) And previously called him out for being slow about it. Lorgar kept it up and finally mad dad mad.
Alpharius was loyal to the Emperor. He didnt betray him, he betrayed Humanity.
Seriously, how fckn dumb can he be. Listening to some Xenos to destroy his OWN Race.
A video on the imperial palace would be neat, shed load to talk about!
Magical man looks absolutely sick, but I'm sure as hell still saving up for a 1/12 scale Angron proxy. I NEED PLZ
Oh is it Heresy Monday already? Where are the inquisitors when you need them?
If my dad yanked me out of a glorious battle alongside my gladiator brethren and made me go boss around some people I dont know nor care about I would jump at the chance to rebel (Angron of the World Eaters)
I cant remember where i saw it, or if its even real or not, but I once read someone say that Horus winning was the nearest to a happy ending humanity could have got.
Horus wins and within 2 or 3 generations hes wracked with guilt over what hes wrought, but that splintering would have brought about a massive rupturing within chaos as well as humanity that both are wiped out.
E "wins" and we get 10-20 thousand years of stagnation and corruption and chaos eventually consumes all humanity anyway.
Heresy.
Fulgrim is such a good character. A noble dude with flaws that makes you think "what could have been" like Angron
3:53. Guilliman kicks in door...
"Majorkill! A word, if you would"
Angron was the only one who was justified imo. The emperor used him like a tool from the beginning. And yeah I know, "he couldn't remove the butcher's nails." But you're telling me with all his scientific knowledge he couldn't have found a remedy of some kind, to either negate or mitigate the effects? Or when he developed his own variant, he chose to make them almost identical to the original version instead of making some kind of advance, less dangerous version that could've given them power without sacrificing their sanity? Reverse engineering alone should have allowed him to do that, plus all his access to warp sorcery. But no, he wanted a legion of rabid dogs, led by a mad man he could dispose of at any time. And Angron knew it.
Majorkill going from "Angron is the poster child for why abortion should be legal everywhere" to "I empathize with Angron and understand his betrayal of the Emperor" is peak character development.
To call it a betrayal would imply that Angron was ever loyal to the Emperor to begin with
I always hated Alpharius's fall the most. Dude was shown a mysterious vision from a group of mysterious xenos, and just instantly believed it and started destroying a loyalist fleet within like seconds of the vision ending.
Military forces of the Mechanicum/Mechanicus/Dark Mechanicum would be quite cool
Majorkill- "I'm not your dad."
That's not what my mom said poppa! 😭
Those golden models made me pause in admiration. They look amazing!!!
"the big magical giant"
"Egyptian super soldier mech-suit body guard"
I love this so much:))))))
About Angron. In the Realms of Chaos books, Angron saw the Heresy as the only wat to save humanity. I’ve heard another source stating how he wanted to die free and not live enslaved to the Emperor. Just saying, the lore and the novels would likely be better if they focused on this. It would give more dimension to Angron than just “look I’m a berserker and only live to kill*
They HAD a way to make it believable, to make them have a point. But they didn't - they probably didn't think they would have to. How much of the lore is something like "This monument is dedicated to the 1000 worlds destroyed by Xenos and the 3 entire Chapters who fell to defeat them." and you're looking at that going "WHAT? Where? Who? When? WHAT?" as it is? The first three Horus Heresy Books are basically that in Novel format. They COULD have had Horus being given a "Co-Warmaster" of sorts, some weaselly little Political Hack from Terra who the Emperor needed to keep happy for (reasons), so he assigned this Hack to the Crusade to deal with the "Non-War" aspects. And then somehow this weasel gets to decide what is, and what isn't, "War Aspects".
They touched upon the Remebrancers, and could have widened that - planets start to revolt against the Astartes entirely due to irresponsible Remembrancers telling lurid half-truths about the Astartes (Imagine the Remembrancers seeing an Astartes eat the brain of a fallen foe, and suddenly the Astartes are Cannibals out of ancient terrors). They could have had an entire Legion left with nothing to do because they were so efficient at their Compliances that... there was no where for them to go. Nothing for them to do. And suddenly they feel existential dread because they have nothing else they can do - and they're functionally immortal. Is this what they have to look forward to for... the rest of time? Hell, have the World Eaters be stuck out in a populated sector with no compliance actions to take, and they have to sit on their ships, with the Butchers Nails eating into their brains, with nothing to do except beat on one another because they're waiting for orders from Horus, who is waiting for the Co-Warmaster to finish something? Etc.
But they did nothing of the sort. And outside of Angron, the reasons for Rebelling are just lame. Even if they weren't Demi-Gods, the reasonings would be lame.
Video idea: who is the strongest mortal psyker in the galaxy in 40k
Video ideas: Schola Progenium explained and more videos on the Sisters of silence
A video on ork vehicles would be pretty cool.
Since you have a semblance of backing Angron, here’s a theory video idea: The Butchers Nails wasn’t killing Angron, but gave him the Hulk treatment. Half the time he’s the empathetic Paladin he was meant to be, the other half he’s the raging berserker we see. Would he still be this overly resentful person we see in canon, or would E actually give a damn about him?
That totally not Magnus model is so so cool. Way better than anything Nottingham mafia have ever released.
I'd put it like this:
Makes sense-
Magnus
Konrad
Angron
Perturabo
Lorgar
Doesn't make sense
Alpharius/Omegon
...Eh.
Horus
Fulgrim
Mortarian
I put Horus in "Eh" since I fall in with those who think what happened to the missing primarchs and the threat of the same happening to him and his legion where motivating factors. A creepy weirdo that you know is generally untrustworthy appearing in your dreams and showing you a future of your father and some of your brothers being worshipped while you and some others are missing seems pretty week...unless you have in the back of your mind an incident where two of your brothers where unpersoned and you were punished for making a scene when it happened. In that case, a lot of it starts to make more sense in terms of paranoia winning out, motivating him even for the time he was free of Chaos' influence for a bit.
The title is dangerously close to heresy
Perto was paranoid from being addicted to Mechamphetamine...👁👁
Perturabo and Magnus are among my favorite primarchs. Cause they're not fully evil. Perturabo during his Olympia pogrom actually questioned one of his commanders," Did any of my sons refuse the eradication order?" And when he was informed yes, Perto said "Good....Good..." And this is coming from one of the primarchs you didn't wanna say no to besides Angron or Russ.
Magnus is all over the place but he had his heart in the right place. Only thing that makes me annoyed about his lore is how he went about trying to warn the Imperium of the oncoming Heresy. He went full... not Magnus and that's how we ended up with shattered demon Magnus. Almost like Tzeentch casted confusion on him or something during the most important part of his play.
A video about, what if there were no loyalist elements in the traitor legions ,this would also count for omegon and magnus. So there would be no need for the culling at isthvaan and weakening of the traitor forces.. this would be very intresting to see what all the effects would be on the succes of the heresy.
Lets just say 3 whole legions would be destroyed (because Iron Hands, Salamanders and Raven Guard were also present on Istvaan), Horus would have more time for his element of surprise, Dorn would have less if not no time at all to fortify the Imperial Palace. Essentially allowing total victory for Horus
And yes, Imperium Secundus will be formed and become the last bastion for mankind, at least until Horus turns his gaze on it. Though its defense would be more effective with the 3 strongest legions defending it, but the Dark Angels would contribute most as the other 2 were kneecapped and they have dark age weapons
Really great analysis in my humble opinion. Only thing I would say is Alpharius might be one of the absolute dumbest choices. Guy really thought he was the smartest man in existence, so deluded that he believed "I do good by ensuring my species extinction" durr durr.
Last time i was this early i was born
I think the Emporer knew half of his sons would fall to chaos but he didnt know who would fall (could jave been part of the deal he made with chaos when he stole warp essence to infuse into the primarchs).
So he picked the strongest/most stable and emotionally invested in them and the broken ones at most risk of he let fall to the wayside.
I think the decisions were never the primarchs own choices they were the avenues left to them after the Emporer has engeneered their fates to tip the Heresy in his favour.
Maybe that's why there are two lost legions. .... Maybe one pimarch died/excacuted and because the numbers were not balanced the Emporer needed to kill a second primarch to ensure the heresy would be balanced (or at least in the emporers favour).
uperb video as always @majorkill.
Could you make a video dedicated to the Navigators, the major houses, their politics, relation to the overall Imperium and factions
I think it was Baldemort who argued that Fulgrim could have been the greatest Primarch, and his fall was the worst loss, and that the 'unnecessary' wars he engaged in were anything but, he took theatres no one else could, and turned his legion into a machine of conquest, able to change it's entire doctrine as circumstances demand, Sons of Horus style Spearhead operations, Imperial Fist style siege, World Eaters shock assault? They could do it almost as well as the original legion, and they could do it all.
New model is dope and can’t wait to see people’s work but I’m not ready for all that if and when the emperor model comes back I’m buying that one so I don’t miss it and painting it when I’m ready
Video idea what if the emperor of mankind wanted to be worshipped as a God and had created the esslarcy the imperial cult in order to defeat the chaos gods
I had thought of something like that though I believe he would more likely not have himself be a God but instead create a being in the Warp to empower.
A collab video with operations room that's about the Seige of terra would be soo cool
His greatest mistake is the Golden Toilet Bowl
HERESY!
That model looks SICK
No. None of them had a point. They were all flawed individuals and played by chaos by appealing to their base human urges. They were prideful, greedy, arrogant, vain and had ambitions beyond their standing. The emperors weakness was in treating his sons as tools, and not people, and also keeping much of his grand ambitions from them. This was never an excuse for heresy though.
I think the most pathetic thing about fall of Mortarion is what he did to Typhus. Nothing. Imagine any other primarch being made to fall by one of their own son. That son would be so dead. But Morty might as well shake his fist to him for all the good that it does, and that is pathetic.
Doubt Nurgle would let him kill Typhus.
Nurgle litterally refused to allow typhus to die
Cough cough Lorgar cough cough Erebus.
Day 41: What if Omegon returned to the setting. What would happen?, how would Guilliman and The Lion react?. Would be a pretty cool video idea.
Damn! Hell yea!!!!! Sick model!
Hope the emperor will come back eventually on a less grand scale!
I was thinking what about a video of what did chaos do or try to do to each primach
Longtime supporter of 3dartguy. Love him and his sculpts!
Please make a video about Tau Navy and their battles. The Exodite show got me interested in them.
The emperor was definitely going to kill the primarchs. The Horys herasy proves they were to dangerous and a threat to him.
Answering in a summarized way:
Lorgar and Angron: yes
Horus, Magnus and Kurze: a little
Mortarion, Perturabo, Fulgrim and Alpharius: no
Praised was because he banished all the Remembrancers the people who would create the art, songs, etc to celebrate the Legion then when one defied him and painted a masterwork to celebrate the Iron Warriors Victory. Perty straight up burned the painting right in front of him.
Perty not being Praised as much as Dorn was entirely his fault. Sorce - Angel Exterminatus.
I think the main fault lies in biggie making redundant copies of his primarchs, and having one be a nobelbright mega-super-ultra cool guy, and the other be the shittiest of assholes. Its like he couldnt decide to do a good or evil run of stellaris so he just did both at once.
Horus's betrayal was entirely justified. His last name was Heresy, after all.
Bring Back Timmy. Video 94
The Horus heresy would be 100% better if “chaos” wasn’t actually a thing and just Terran propaganda. You could have developed complex characters with actual reasons to rebel, and work off of that, rather than “I’m the god of blood, now you’re evil because I’m evil”
I wish Horus was more disenfranchised before he got cut by the governor