@Anthony Timmers It's not intended to be a dog fighter, that's what the F-15's, F-16's and F-22 Raptors are for. It's more like a command and control platform for the other airborne weapons and a sneak attack fighter. But Yeah I pretty much agree in a straight up dog fight against a pilot with similar skills it will probably get the short end of the stick. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
As a former ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) Detection & Jamming Technician you have presented this information Very Well. In war or otherwise their are a few battlefields most people know about and a few they don't know about. They are the Air Battlefield & Ground Battlefield these are the ones most people know about and see on the news. The others are the Electronic Warfare Battlefield, the Cyber Battlefield and soon the Space Platforms Battlefield. Radars are in both the Air and the Electronic Battlefields and soon the Space Battlefield. The only short coming of these systems is that in a time of war, in order to get around them or deny their use we do one or more of the following things: 1. Jam them. Use the radars frequency at high power and feed it back into the system. They are some really cool electronics that do this and most nations have them. The process of how it's done by each nation is highly classified to prevent an enemy from finding a weakness to the electronic process. 2. Deceive them. Electronically manipulate them to make the screen move the actual target to another part of their radar screen. So if they shoot a missile it goes to where the tracking system says it is rather than where it really is. 3. False target them. Electronically manipulate them to flood the screen with hundreds if not thousands of targets to deny them effect use of it. They could shoot all their missiles and still not hit a thing. At that point they usually turn them off or they become a target themselves. Radar signals can be tracked both ways! 4. Destroy them. Prior to an operation we send out teams of either aircraft or personnel to detect and mark the location of them.Then we jam them and send in missiles to lock onto their location and track the source back to the antenna or command center and blow it up. This is done with stealth aircraft, for hard sites we use cruise missiles or Special Ops teams. Iraq's "Shock and Awe" was part of step 4's process. Part of the detection process is to fly into a restricted area forcing them to turn them on so we can find and destroy them. Most nations are familiar with the process so the best effective counter measure is to use mobile platforms and only turn the radars on when it's absolutely necessary for that particular area. If they turn them on before it's necessary we locate them and take them out. It's a cat and mouse game, like snipers hunting snipers in a jungle. That's why spy satellites are so important as they are used to track their location and possibly jam them as needed. Or even sneakier put or false reading to force them to turn on the radar making is location known. You should do another video on these subjects. Thanks for the nice video. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
@@vivekkaushik9508 Thank You Vivek. Electronic Warfare is one of the more interesting battle fields, especially when you deploy Stealth Aircraft in conjunction with non-stealth planes and both passive and active ECM. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
@John Smith That's assuming that the Chinese Government is telling the truth. There are a lot of experts out there questioning China's claim. The CCP is well known to exaggerate to buy time or "Save Face", in difficult situations and we all know the situation developing in the South China Seas and the Solomon Islands, and with factories closing and moving to other countries, and the Wuhan Virus and the trade war and Southern China Sea countries becoming more aggressive and at odds with China. Xi JinPing is in trouble politically at home, and this could be just one much needed ploy for the home team to support him, and give his foreign enemies pause. So Xi JinPing's home and foreign situation lends one to question if the Quantum Interference Radar really exist, and if it does how effective is it in reality. I don't take anything China says as full truth and neither should anyone else. The only way for the QIR to be believable is for it to be tested on non-Chinese Stealth Aircraft, and I don't see that being done anytime soon. As far as it being the all to be all radars, as some have said, I have yet to see a radar that the pulses can't be detected and fed back into it with the same pulses with special encoding to jam it or trick it, as I have stated in my original post. It seems about every few years some radar guys make the claim their radar can't be jammed. We then take up a ECM aircraft and jam it. They go home with their pride shattered and back to the drawing board. Remember what ever comes out MUST come back in to be detected and decoded. That is the weakness of every radar system out there, no matter how sophisticated it is. Pulses & frequencies, including light wavelength pulses, can be recorded and fed back into it with different perimeters to jam it, trick it or exploit it. Of course if it is a viable system you always have the old standard tactics, bait and switch. Basically cause a diversion somewhere and come at them from another direction. It will be interesting to see if it is real though. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
@John Smith I agree QIR is very possible, being impossible to jam yeah as a former ECM and Radio Technician who's familiar with detection and some of the systems I don't believe it. Anything that can be detected can be copied and re-transmitted after it's altered, including encoded signals. Now don't think the word jammed means straight not detectable, it includes tricking or manipulating the signals that alter the displayed information on the operators screen. Until QIR is actually demonstrated as effective it itself is a thesis. However the detection, manipulation and reseeding of RF and Light Emission Signals is not a thesis, it's reality and used on every battle field including ground troops. Here's a nice article on the concept of jamming Light emitted and light recievers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_countermeasure. This same concept can be applied to any encoded light emitting transmitter that expects to have a light source returned and detected. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Not many people realize this, but civilian air control radars with their long wavelength and massive dishes can effortlessly detect F-35/F-22/J-20/J-31. They just aren't precise enough to create a weapon lock. One way around this is combining long wavelength and tightly beamed short wavelength radars, the long wavelength radar would find the general location, while short wavelength beam zooms in on it for weapon lock. There's also another approach that's arguably more effective specifically against F-35: combining long wavelength radar with infrared. Long wavelength radar would find the general location and send the missile there, when within visual range, infrared sensor on the nose of the missile takes over and homes in. This approach works due to a design flaw in F-35 that's not present in F-22/J-20/J31: extremely hot engine exhaust. Rather than using 2 cooler running engines, Lockheed Martin pushed one engine way past reasonable threshold for its size in order to produce enough thrust for the overweight F-35. During normal cruise, F-35 leaves a hot tail that lights up like a beacon in the sky, comparable to typical fighters with afterburners on. It's not something that can be fixed without a complete redesign.
Civilian S band weather radar also theoretically has a chance to detect stealth aircraft although they would typically not be set up in a way to do so.
Stealth fighters have to wear radar reflectors in order to be tracked by ATC, are you sure about what you're saying? I could be wrong, but how hot an engine exhaust is also depends upon the thrust setting at the time. A F-35 running at full mil-power may look hotter than a comparable jet at mil-power, but anything less than that, and I don't see why the F-35 will be the ball of heat that everyone talks about. The large amount of thrust available to the engine isn't in use all the time. Counter-stealth solutions do exist, but they are not guaranteed to work. It's impossible to counter stealth aircraft with one or two gadgets alone. A comprehensive rebuild and restructuring of the air defense network is needed, one that costs the kind of money only oil-rich Muslim countries may be able to give. For example, your IR-SAM (not sure if such a thing even exists right now, think the US has a dual-seeker one, but can't remember its name) may be able to guide itself to a F-35, but the plane has powerful ECM/IRCM, towed decoys, sensors that will be picking up almost every radar's activity in the region (save for LPI ones maybe), and a MAWS that will warn the pilot very early. The inevitable result is uncertainty. Stealth is only a part of the 5th gen fighter philosophy.
Another case of a weapons systems that breaks the back of the dopes financing it which can be easily negated with a far cheaper countermeasure. The generals and politicians have long forgotten the KISS principle that has won all modern wars.
"Cheaper"? Have you asked the Russians how much their 2000 S-300 launchers have cost them? Or their 250+ S-400s (reportedly 50 million USD per launcher, according to a claim of 400m for 8 launchers, that's half a F-35 per launcher). Have you asked them how much a Nebo SVU and other early warning/search radars cost? How about their Su-35s, at 50 million per plane, again 1/2 of a F-35, with a radar that is largely useless against a F-35 because its emissions can be used to generate targeting data for AMRAAMs. Or maybe you should ask about the PAK-FA, though that's probably a sensitive matter since it's getting delayed again...and again...and again... I will stick to the KISS principle in order to tell you this: There is no KISS in warfare. Not any more. When your enemy goes one step further, even the simplest counter is expensive, and actually risks being insufficient. And when you deploy something like that, you need to deploy them in bigger numbers, which more than likely ends with you spending the same amount of money.
Various ECM and decoys are also present in 4th and 4.5th generation fighters. Not to mention it using many types of ECM actually reveals the stealth fighter's presence by emitting large amount of radiation. The point is, F-35's unusually hot exhaust can potentially compromise its stealth and render it no more effective than current 4th generation fighters. Speaking of which, F-35's flight characteristics and base performance is quite poor even by 4th generation jet standard. It cannot supercruise, its speed, maneuverability, climb rate, range, payload, and many other base specs are far below that of some earlier 4th generation jets, some of which it's supposed to replace. In fact, it's not considered by many experts to be true 5th generation fighter, but rather 4.5, thanks to it lacking some of the specifications crateria deemed necessary for 5th generation. As for KISS, yes, F-35 started off with the promise of simple, cheap, effective aircraft. But over the years, more and more equipment is piled onto it, overloading the engine, which had to be pushed harder and harder, producing the hot exhaust that compromised its own stealth. Even then, thrust to weight ratio is below many 4th generation fighters, resulting in lack of supercruise capability, limited range and poor performance. Early models of X-35 is actually more stealthy than current F-35. The plane's structure had to be redesigned to accommodate additional equipment, resulting in bumps and protrusions in the body that adds to RCS. In some ways, the Chinese J-31 is what F-35 should have been: light, simple, cheap, effective. Many Americans claim J-31 was built on stolen F-35 data. I don't think the irony dawned on them.
MyImList Multiple bombing runs on 3rd world countries, lol. Even if you take the aging F-16 it would still be invincible fighting against 3rd world countries. That just say a lot about the USA bullying other country with no significant power to submission. Fight against Russian/Chinese latest equipment and you'll see heavy losses of the F-35.
@@akid1263 the so called third world country's were using Russian made fighters including Mig 29 and Su 27's they are both newer then the F 16 AND f 15's the US was using, over 40 years the kill ratio for America made fighters over Russian made fighters is in favor of America made 156/0 , ,russian made did not win even ONE time lol , its not America fighting third world country's its America made killing russian made ever time lol nice try bitch hahaha with your russian junk lol
@@akid1263 you cant even beat the F 15 / F 16's hahaha russia and china make nothing but cheap JUNK ,you can never catch the USA not in this life time lol
There's a lot of speculation about what the hell happened with that shootdown. There have been all sorts of outrageous claims: Serbs having spies watching the F-117s taking off, IR/electro-optical mods being done to the SAMs/radar used, field mods to give the radar a greater wavelength, all sorts of stuff. The only thing known for sure, because Zelko said so, is that he saw the SAMs being launched, which means by the time they could get a firing solution on him, he was probably rather close. Of course, a SAM launch is probably visible from quite far away in nighttime, but then again it can only be so far.
Well, it's unlikely a SAM launch could be seen 122 miles away, even at night, and a SA-3 could not fly that far anyway. IIRC the guy in charge of the SAM site said detection happened at 50-60km, and the launch range I don't remember, but I think he gave one that was under 20km. Again, there are all sorts of various versions of the story, and they're all next to impossible to confirm.
Yes. That and the Serbs had broken into the NATO coms and knew where it would be and when. If you watch the interview of the officer who was in command there, he flat out said that they knew it was over them and he manually guided it to the plane and then when it got close enough it detected the plane and blew up.
A very simplistic overview of how radar is used. Yes, if you have a 1950s vintage radar looking head on at an F35 then it would not see it until it was 15 miles away. But when you have modern AESA radars, all data-linked and looking at the target from multiple angles then it is a completely different story. BTW, the quoted RCS of the F35 is only for front and is not the all-aspect RCS.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 Still, u also have to consider that even if a radar detects the plane in some way, still a big difference with having a lock on the plane and shooting it down. F35 might even have some security system against that too with it's advanced technology :)
@@Zim-ks6pb Lmao, u must be joking. The F35 has lowered a lot in price btw and is cheaper than a Rafale for example. Systems like S300 even fail to shoot down F16 in Syria, u think they would hit F35? And Turkey couldn't have S400 with F35 yes but that's just so russia couldn't spy with it and have an easier way to detect F35.
The problem is not necessarily detecting them. It's the battlefield management that it presents. 1) It can supposedly fire weapons remotely from other vehicles/aircraft inside the box. 2) It jams those bands and returns the signal with scrambled data which makes it off course. 3) ECS has advanced beyond S300 & S400 ranges
Any aircraft is detectable. The question is "At what range?". Just as Castle Defense was in a race with siege machines and tactics, so too will "stealth" be in a race with target acquisition technology. If all players have similar targeting prowess, those with the smaller RCS and thermal signature will rule the day. "First shot, first splash". No getting around it. All modern fighter aircraft are limited by the biological 9G limit. Even if that were not the case, no aircraft can endure the 20G turns of a AAM.
Also, when you are penetrating airspace that are covered by these radar sites, typically you will send in aircraft equipped with HARM's first. You can hit targets out to 150 km.
@@БојанПавловић-е3й Also, the only reason they had radar in those areas is because the ops coordinators kept the F117 on pretty much the same flight corridor for their missions, so they knew where to place the AA sites to intercept.
Russia has a pasiv location systems similary like Tamara and Vera-NG. They can locate all stealth plane if the plane use radio or SAT comunication or radar, radio altitudemeter. atc.
Just started watching your videos. Gota say... Very well done! Professional, Informational, Understandable, and Entertaining. You just earned yourself a new FAN!
Israel acknowledged that Syria detected and fired at F-35s with S-200, which is Soviet air-defense system roughly from 1970s. If that can detect them...
@@drpickles6066 probably fake just like everything sirya goberment says. You need a video to prove It and therese no one (that i know xd), f35 may be prepared to electronic warfare and thats probably the reason. Pf being stealth doesnt make you invissible
@MyImList what usa doing is fake the news , and give it a bigger shape so everyone should be afraid of it , but in reality you can shoot it down with your shoe
Or if you have S-300 and S-400 systems like Syria and Iran. Israel has already proven that the F-35 can fly anywhere in the Middle East unimpeded. I find it interesting that you think you could shoot one down, when the advanced air defense systems in Iran, Iraq, and Syria have not been able to. You're acting like the nations are not testing the F-35 in real combat, when everyone knows that they are being used. What is really going on and it is very obvious, is that you're jealous that whatever nation you come from cannot even build a WWI style airplane, let alone the most advanced aircraft in the world. Your jealousy leads you to hate anything produced by America and it leads you to produce bullshit excuses and lies. If the F-35 is so easy to shoot down, how is it that Israel, the best and most powerful democracy in the Middle East, can fly them straight into Iran without having a single one shot down? Why hasn't one been shot down, even though they are already seeing real combat? You see, with just one seconds worth of critical thinking and even you should be able to see how brain-dead you really are. Real life facts have proven that you're a moron before you even made this claim. You're literally stating lies about the F-35, when the F-35 is literally wiping out Iranian forces all through the Middle East. The F-35 looks to be the weapon that will destroy the Iranian military the Daniel 8 talks about in the Bible. Israel has already proven that they can do it with the F-35 when Israeli F-35s flew right into Iranian airspace. You must be totally under-educated and you seem like you must chew those leaves everyone chews over there because you're dumb as fuck.
I was a radar specialist in the Army for my first mos. We used all types from sentinels to q36s, and i could pick up a damn seagal if i wanted to. Its about reducing the signature so you can fly around it.
if you have to actually fly over a country to get information you're doing it wrong. But if we did have to actually fly over a country the f22 would be a much better choice in every way. It's faster, 2 man crew, better stealth, better range and less technical issues with the aircraft itself.
gabrielhii1995 No! The Russians have most of there about 150 Battalions of S400 and S300 networked. They are also networked with all Civilian Radars and there big powerful Ground Radars. If not completed it is well under way. All late Aircraft are networked also. Odds on they will be able to track and target Stealth Aircraft. Multiple very powerful ground radars in a network. There secret exactly what the details are.
Also, keep in mind! Radar stations is a two-way street, that can detect you but you can detect them just as easily. We do have air to ground missiles that when fired home in on radar signals from 100+ miles out. The f-35 is a multi-role fighter it can carry these missiles on its wings, by the time the radar station gets a faint detection, it is already too late, the missile was on its way and radar is toasted. Once the radar stations are destroyed the F-35's job is over and the F-22 come roaring in behind them to mop up any and all enemy aircraft in the airspace for air superiority. F-35 can stick around assist ground operations if need be. Remember attack operations are not done and over with in one single blow when dealing with a well prepared enemy.
Lol, u forgot these radars are also able to detect missiles from long range & intercept them? A fairly modern sam system like russian s300 would easily do that, only if you send lots of missiles and use some extra tech like radar jamming or decoys perhaps but still the system will detect & neutralize some rockets.
according to an interview given by an f35 pilot the "stealth" function of the f35 is deferent from the b2 spirit or f22. even the general notion of the stealth capability is misunderstood,,, according to him, the idea is not to become invisible but to hard and impossible to keep track and fixed for anti air defenses. in other words, it's not about being seen, it's the difficulty to lock and shot down the f35. with a smaller signature, and intermittent appearance in the enenmy radar (including low frequency ones) the pilot can make use of maneuver, route changing to overcome very conplex defensive systems. up to today the f22 is still the most steaplh fighter her available, but it is way to expensive to maintain and fly.
SpydreX Official We have built only around 200 f22s and never exported them. We are definitely upgrading the computer systems on those beauties. Same thing we are doing with our A10s
Much much much thanks for the information. Stealth itself is not enough that proves it. My respect to you from India and I am a upsc faculty and this is extremely useful as I teach all this.
It was my understanding that the F-117 shoot down was aided by the fact that the Air Force used the same flight pattern 2 nights in a row which was key in getting the plane tracked. It doesn't take away from the accomplishment and doesnt change the fact that they can be shot down, but it sure helps if you're expecting them in a designated flight corridor.
With spys watching runways and reporting takeoffs. Also they threw up boat loads of missiles and one caught it while domb bay door was open. A known risk.
All aircraft are detectable. Complete stealth will probably never be achievable. The giant B2 Spirit has a RCS comparable to that of a large bird. A lot of the arguments against the F-35 can be disproved by pointing out the flaws ALL aircraft have. The F-35 does have some unique challenges itself. The F-35 isn't perfect, it has flaws. A lot of which either have been worked out, or are being worked out.
The idea that stealth is supposed to make aircraft invisible is funny because it's propaganda used on both sides. The US sometimes claim their aircraft are invisible, while the Russians and Chinese claim they've detected it, therefore it's not. In reality it's not invisible, but stealth is about detection and targeting ranges. Also, a perfect example of an aircraft doing worse is the F-16. Those things were falling out of the sky for many years yet people don't even argue that they are bad.
Hm I mostly agree about stealth. I think that there was not necessary American propaganda about these airmusters to begin with (because they were even for the longest time classified) - I think it was rather the press, which misinterpret the weapon system’s purpose. Stealth is just another group of systems, which incrementally improves the survivability and increases the effectivity of a war plane. Like other systems “the enemy” is developing counter-systems and it is a back and forth between technologies. However I actually believe (and this is just a educated wild ass guess), that stealth is one disrupting technology groups, which at this point cannot be neutralized or even lessened by a wide margin. About the F-16, I am not that sure. F-16 were intended to be a “throwaway airplane” - they are were rather cheap (not necessary anymore true with the latest upgrades) and agile - and let’s be honest, if you would like to have the “best” material with a similar mission, you would go for a F-15. Additionally F-16’s were used as Wild Weasels, which is a mission, which predictable has the biggest loss rates of all.
@ivanlagrossemoule You also have to take the "detecting" of stealths with a grain of salt. The Brits claimed they detected one of the German stealth subs in WWII and sunk it in the English Channel, after Germany confirmed it lost one. A dive on the discovered crash site decades later discovered that it was neither where the Brits claimed, nor hit by a torpedo, but an underwater mine. Everytime I hear someone claim to have detected a stealth, it reminds me of all the times our troops would claim to have "detected" our sniper positions. Meanwhile, they were staring at a rock on a hill, about 2 km away from the actual sniper position. Everyone has an eagle eye to spot these things....until they actually have to pinpoint it. Given that a seagull would show up on their radar the same as a B2 Spirit, I cannot help but wonder how many times a flock of birds were flying overhead and some champion at the helm of the radar made a breakthrough discovery of incoming stealths.
if it has weapons on the external hardpoints it's easy to detect,if it doesn't it's payload is reduced to 2 bombs and can only defend itself in the air with it's cannon
We no longer detecting reflected waves . Since 1990 we started using as we called now 3d radar system , this means multiple radars covering same area detecting ,,empty spaces" and reflections . I'm not Russian for the record...
The F-35 is the only plane in the world capable of linking to ships below it and planes beside it and firing/guiding missiles from them. So essentially, as long as other planes and ships are in the area, it can launch from them and use its targeting system. It can also track dozens of targets at once. In this way, yes, an F-35 could take out dozens of targets on its own in regards to tracking the targets and sending missiles from other planes/ships to them after it was out of its own missiles.
I recall back in 1992 GEC Marconi were testing their latest Radar and they phoned a US Airbase in the UK near Basildon to confirm some radar movements that occurred over the previous night. They were astonished that GEC Marconi queried the 2 aircraft arriving in the early hours of the morning. Apparently they asked how do you know of the movements that occurred at 2am? The engineer responded they were logged by our new radar system. That was a nail in the coffin of mythical stealth aircraft, the latest generation synthetic aperture radars (SAR) in the early 1990s were capable of detecting and tracking the F-117 Night Hawk. Like now, the latest generation of optical sensors now compliment Radar in the detection of threats
The F117 got shot down cause its bomb doors were open to drop. Australia can detect the distortion in the air, detecting is one thing, shooting is another.
It's not about being invisible under all circumstances, it's about being far more likely to see first and have options from there giving a huge advantage. Will they see f-35 far enough away is the question.
Shooting down of f117 bomber in Yugoslavia in 1999. is a case that shows how to do it. I didnt know that Serbs used low-frequency radar, but I heard the story of radar personal how they did it. They switched radar signal on and off to avoid being spotted. Radar was on in intervals not longer than 5 seconds. They waited for the plane to come closer and closer. When he came at 15 km distance, the missile was fired, and the plane was down.
Горан Нешић That was a plane that was always flying at the same place, same height and same time for a long time. The Serbs just waited for it to come so it isn't really comparable
Yes, maybe he made a mistake, like a thief moving into the house through the same window, but i think the main point is that the owner of the house waits for him in the dark (the owner of the house KNOWS that the thief is coming) and turns the light at the right moment and shoot immediatley. When the stealth plane comes over a hostile territory, he might come very close to air defense that turned its radar off waiting for him to come closer.
I think the most important part of it is that it was shot down at short range. The biggest issue when fighting stealth is that it highly reduces detection/targeting ranges, and it's pretty much impossible with our current technology to make up for most of that advantage. Even the S-400 or S-500 for that matter can't solve that issue.
Yes, it's difficult to deal with stealth . But since he is hiding, you have to play the hide-and-seek game too. It's difficult, but it is not impossible to get him.
It is most definitely a stealth aircraft, it sacrificed quite a bit of speed and maneuverability for it to be a multi-role stealth aircraft. It's not as good as the F-22 in stealth but it is most definitely a stealth plane nonetheless. It's just that stealth isn't the invincible technology that will make it the best plane ever as people like to claim it to be.
It is a stealth aircraft by any present definition of stealth. I would say an example of a non-stealth plane with stealth characteristics would be something like the Gripen-E or Su-35.
@@precisi0n86 nicely said m8 I'm sick of ppl talking shit not knowing what the fuck is going on. As my dad was in the military, he had lots of reading materials and military manuals explaining the complexity of every military asset they had in the base he was stationed at. I've read a lot of those and still I barely know the surface of how all that works. To all the shiteaters who are reading: BEFORE YOU COMMENT WITH A PILE OF SHIT TALKS DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH FIRST!!!
Stop crying dude, this guy provide us with fact, you only believe what US army say. Even pilots who fly with F35 says its bad in manuevering, climbing and it cant outrun. Even f16 won in dogfight..
@@fuzzX I know that so well bet still there's those bitch ass kiddos thinking the F-35 us the ultimate undetectable and untouchable jet. But Syria took down Izraeli F-35 with an old ass S-200. Before I decide to write shit I make sure I'm not talking bullshit
Miroslav Stefanov You are most definitely talking bullshit lmao. First of all there is no evidence of the F-35 from israel ever being shot down. Second of all the whole point if the aircraft is to strike before it’s detected, which so far in dog fight training, it has done just that. And nobody is saying the F-35 is undetectable. You’re an idiot
freedomfyter, lol, I call it ‘Googology’! It’s fun to come back and look how well some of the posts have aged. btw, China and Russia want to come to the table for arms caps now. You won’t read that here will you? 😅 -ret USAFJAG
Many years ago, an RAF Vulcan bomber called an American airbase for permission to land. It was on a joint training program, and informed the ground controller of this. If the airbase was in Europe, that would be one thing, but the airbase was in the middle of Texas and no one had seen it's arrival from the UK. The RAF have spent decades perfecting low flying, and it still seems to work. In WW2, a Lancaster bomber on a night raid, flying at 30 feet, had another Lancaster fly below him. lol
Reminded me of our own Pilots in the Israeli air force, Flying so low that in Operation Focus to catch the Egyptians by supraise one of the pilots hit an electricity stand (It was around 15 - 25 meters above ground), After the war some of the other pilots in the squadron became very religious, Especially the one who survived captivity and had his leg butchered.
@Somarik Green Yea lets cut the budget while ww3 is coming. Real smart. People like you shouldn't be making decisions. I mean i gotta ask are you a bleeding heart or is it lack of spine.
Is great info but lack one single statement.The F-117 was easy to track because super confident on the technology US sent F-117"s on the same freaking route so made the plane expected sooner or later on that airspace. One of the stealth rule is avoiding the same airspace use on many missions.
Also it was only seen at extremly close range and only when it opened its bombing bays. This was confirmed by Zoltan Dani, the commander responsible for the shoot down.
Great video as always! I don't know why people dislike your content. It's a unbiased analysis of the pros, cons, counters and counter-counters. This is the content we need more of in military channels! I always knew low frequency radars are able to detect but not as good at guiding missiles but I didn't know why when compared to high frequency ones. But your explanation made it very easy to understand. However you forgot to mention that an aircraft isn't universally low signature from all directions. The cited RCS is from the front which is what designers focus on but the side, top, bottom and rear is much higher. Against a integrated network, you may be hidden from one radar site, but another to your side may detect you. And when you turn away after engaging, you might be spotted since you are no longer facing the lowest RCS profile to the enemy radar.
People act like the F-35 can't engage with it's own weapons the whole time to counter a treat as well and has to sneak up and literally touch the target undetected. No body said the F-35 is invulnerable but, it's low observable characteristics do give it a clear advantage when employing it's own anti-air or anti radiation munitions.
The internet is always one extreme to another. It is better to have stealth than not. But stealth isn't the holy grail of aircraft technology. But US fanboys will say stealth rules while Russian/Chinese fanboys will say the plane is grounded 24/7 or some shit. Ignoring the characteristics of the F-35, stealth alone have a lot of drawbacks, and counters but just as much many pros and advantages. It all depends on how you deploy and fly the aircraft to maximize those advantages while minimizing the disadvantages.
Cancel F-35A and F-35C? Lockheed Martin will probably sell over 4000 of them. F-35A cost is now down to 80 million USD. Incredible price for the best all-around fighter on the planet.
Stealth is ineffective unless accompanied with smart jamming. The key issue is noise to signal ratio. The return energy of a radar return burst on a stealth aircraft is in the pico-joule range. However, jamming can send back to the source kilo-joules of energy in response. This noise to signal is in the range of TRILLIONS of times as much energy as the signal of the aircraft. It is nearly impossible to get decent tracking information with such a ratio. While the aircraft will be detected, it cannot be tracked under such circumstance, so it can carry out its mission unimpeded. At least, that is the idea.
Sure, there are radars that can detect the Lightning and the Raptor. But in order to do that they have to be focusing on the exact piece of sky that they're in. So if you're not looking exactly in the right place, pretty good chance you'll never see it till it's too late. I've heard lots of reports about F-35's at Red Flag. Just a hand full of them took out dozens of other planes before they even knew they were there. Ground stations may be a bit different because they can use larger antennas/lower frequencies. Airborne radars are mostly restricted to higher frequencies because of the size. Like he said, the lower freq, larger antenna arrays are easily detectable and can be jammed or avoided.
At Red Flag Swedish, French, German and Japanese aircraft have been able to detect the F-35 with little trouble. Pretty sure the Russians and Chinese can do it. At the recent Trident 21 exercise, the first of the Trident series held outside of the US without USAF & USN ROE restrictions, the Intruder Mk2 (the nickname USN pilots have been disciplined for calling the F-35) was basically defenseless against Italian and German Typhoons unless being escorted by French Rafale. In 2019 at Red Flag Gripens detected and destroyed 2 complete F-35 strike packages without being detected by the F-35s. In 2014 Red Flag French Rafale and Mirage 2000-mk5 used their more advanced data links to form a flying phased array radar with their old PESA systems and ate F-22s lunch. Its more about tactics & training than equipment.
Yes, with their "radar reflectors" on or in place. They run with them activated in peacetime exercizes so that the F-35s and the other A/C in the excercises have a chance to train together. In a war scenario the radar reflectors are off and they become much harder to detect and track.
All F-22 aircraft fly with radar reflectors on the aircraft so that civil air traffic controllers can see them at over 200 miles away. The only time they retract the reflectors and go into stealth mode is when they are flying in a war scenario over restricted areas in the United States, or in real combat.
"Detecting it" is one thing, knowing it's in the area means nothing if you don't know exactly where it is. Also, being able to fire a missile at it, let alone hit it or try to intercept it with another aircraft is another thing entirely.
Active radar missiles are fairly useful in such a scenario. A low freq radar guide it near the target. The missile then goes pitbull and uses a active radar for terminal. Since the missile at this point is much closer, the stealth is almost entirely negated. Just one method I think can help counter stealth. But of course, stealth is something 'better to have than not have it.' There being counters does not mean it should be ignored. There's also other methods of countering stealth such as multiple radar sites, which make it hard for a plane to face it's lowest RCS signature to all of the sites. Stealth and counter-stealth technology is a arms race of its own. I would argue stealth have a slight advantage because it is relatively new and not a lot of nations have a developed infrastructure to counter it. BUT the technology to counter it is there and it exists. It just needs to be applied.
Lmao I mean we used to get blackbirds over its edges every now and then and they couldn't catch or shoot it down. So don't be so me so cocky! I wouldn't be surprised if an f35 could embarrass the entire Russian air Force. If you can even call it a "force"... Like 4 operational new su 35s lmao
@@IldarIsm incorrect. You literally were unable to catch it, and it was never intercepted while on mission. And yes, while you have 100 su35s... Your best and brightest fighter... Maybe on par with an F-15C/D... Of which we have nearly a 400 in service. Complimented by 770 of the most experienced warbirds in the world, the f-16. And then there's the 220 f35s... The 180 f22s... The 700 f18s, the bleeding edge bombers and awacs aircraft that we have by the shitload- all of which are flown by the best pilots in the world- American pilots (more seat time and training= better pilots, and we have the absolute most seat time by FAR). What I'm getting at here is, look. Nobody wants war. But if the US wanted to fly over your airspace, decimate your airforcr and destroy all of your Sam sites, they could do so overnight and there would be NOTHING you could do to stop them.
no, that isnt right If the radar wave emmited is larger than the aircraft, the rcs will be higher, but it would still be much smaller due to RAM coating the plane but this radar is also much less accurate, and bounces of everything, from chaff to clouds
+Concerned Voter It was noted be spotted, yes, but not tracked as there was very little data to give to the missile's or other armament's targeting systems.
Nathan Peterson... The brits spotted the plane as they spot any other plane it was only later that they noticed that no plane was registered on this course & speed that they contacted the Americans to ask why they were not registering flight paths. Once they informed the Americans all hell broke loose. How could we have spent so much money on a white elephant etc etc etc. When you spend 25 years building & paying to produce a plane which is not able to be spotted, it can be a tad embarrassing that it was spotted on its first military outing. It was also rumored that the Chinese spotted it, but they refused to comment & continue to refuse to comment
+Concerned Voter > *_"The brits spotted the plane as they spot any other plane it was only later that they noticed that no plane was registered on this course & speed that they contacted the Americans to ask why they were not registering flight paths."_* According to whom exactly? I've not even seen media claim this. > *_"How could we have spent so much money on a white elephant etc etc etc."_* The F-117A was a 25+ year old aircraft at the time, and the first combat-aircraft to incorporate stealth as its main focus. It was comparitively slow to other fighters, unstable, unmaneuverable, and had no defensive countermeaures. Technology is developing at a quicker rate, and more consideration is needed per aircraft to integrate, implement, and/or exploit those technologies. Hence you see longer development times in modern aircraft like the F-35 J.S.F. and the Su-35 and Su-57. > *_"When you spend 25 years building & paying to produce a plane which is not able to be spotted, it can be a tad embarrassing that it was spotted on its first military outing."_* No one, aside from mainstream media outlets, is claiming that stealth equates to "invisibility from all R.A.D.A.R.'s regardless of frequencies". It's a silly hyperbolic notion that has no relevance on the aircraft's capabilities.
Now it's one thing to fly in stealth mode if you turn stealth mode on . If a jet is going in enemies tarattories stealth is on if not they have to turn stealth off so that other radars can track them and guide them
There is a simple math.. back then 1999 yugoslavia, that f117 was shot down by a sam system years and years old from that plane. even 1960s or 70s sam technology is capable to do that, you can guess how s-300s and s-400s, buks, vityaz and others effective can be against f-35 kinda aircraft.. btw i should remind that, f-35 was officially active in 2017, s-400 was officially active in 2007.. russian s-400s ten years older from that aircaft, and other sam sytems even older but even today you can see how gringos scared that missile systems.. isnt it interesting ?
? The F-117 was shot down because it flew back over the same route every time. They knew where to look and when. Additionally, its bomb door was jammed open increasing its Radar cross section substantially. Finally, the F-117 cannot maneuver and has no ECM capability. SO the Serb's lobbed a bunch of missiles up in the air and one locked and hit. So yeah, you can detect an F-35/F-22if you know exactly WHERE to look WHEN with your low frequency ginormous radar. Problem is, that low frequency radar cannot be used to track an aircraft or guide a missile. You need smaller wavelength radars for that...to which the f-35 and f-22 are VERY difficult to detect. The Serb SAM locked only because of a sufficient radar return due to the door being open. ALL of the occasions F-117s were used over hostile skies and only 1 was ever touched. Hardly evidence that modern SAMs have the edge. but if it helps you sleep at night....
@@mikeck9946 "hardly evidence.." like i said, if that sam radars are so weak against that stealth aircraft, then why US is anxious so much about that ?? about f117, why did they stopped the flights of that aircraft after "just one" loss ? why the us air force didnt continue to use f117, why they ended it ?
lol. Well first, your premise is incorrect. the F-117 WAS used after that Serbian shoot down. It was used multiple times over Baghdad in 2003. But it is not used where it isn't needed and once the air defense has been degraded, I don't need it.Second, the US is NOT anxious about it. That's why the US has spent trillions on the F-22 and F-35...b/c it believes that low observability works. The US doesn't give a crap about large wavelength radars since they are generally immobile, they know where they are and they can be taken out by conventional means (or stealth ) like a Tomahawk. This is because they CANT TARGET ANYTHING. They CANNOT guide a missile. SO you have to know where an aircraft will be, when it will be there and Bam! you can say "I see it!". But the radar does not have a high enough resolution to tell where the aircraft is precisely. Meaning a missile cant "ride the beam: to the aircraft.If Russia and China were so sure it is easy to see and kill stealth, ten why spend billions of their own money developing their own stealth aircraft? The F-22 has a radar cross section the size of a bumble bee. time and time again it has intercepted enemy aircraft without them even knowing it was there. it has operated over Syrian airspace on patrol without any ECM package. Stealth works inasmuch as it lets me get within MY weapons range before you can see me. Doesn't matter then.you can believe whatever propaganda makes you feel better but the U.S. has been in the war business the last 30 years more than anyone else. Do you think the most technologically advanced and most powerful military would spend 40 years and 10's of trillions of dollars developing stealth technology if it "didn't work" and it can be easily detected and downed.in the end, my aircraft only needs to defeat the "kill chain". Your radar must detect me, track me, lock me and a missile must get close enough to lock and kill me. If I can defeat any one of those, I win. So I don't care if you can see me if you cant track or target me. I don't care if you could target me but you cant find me. AND I don't care that any radar will pick me up if im close...because I don't need to get close....just close enough to hit you first.
Looks like my reply was deleted.anyway, the F-117 was NOT stopped after "just one loss". The US DID continue to use it over Iraq in 2003. During the initial stages. They don't anymore because the US has not needed to operate over any IADS that tomahawk missiles couldn't slip through. Second, the US is not "anxious" about large wavelength radars. Just because an "RT" video says they are doesn't mean they are. Those types of radars can only find an aircraft if they know where to look. Once found, those radars do not have the resolution to track and guide in a missile for a kill. The radars that CAN cannot detect the F-22/f-35 until they are well within THEIR weapons range. I don't care if you can see me if I get close. All I need to do is get close ENOUGH to use my weapons. So celebrating the detection of an aircraft on large wavelength or the detection of an F-22 at 10 miles with a Mig 31 is meaningless. One cant kill it and the other is dead long before.
So theoretically a plane could fly at 80,000ft which would be 15 miles above the surface. Which would allow the plane to be unseen as long as the frequency that is being used in the radar isn’t long waves. That’s pretty interesting. Kinda explains how the SR-71 was so stealthy, flying above 80,000ft at over 2,000 mph.
They do this all the time. And the Russians fly near us. We even have treaties outright allowing it a few times a year. The real world isn't as interested in going to war as people on TH-cam are. Even in these debates, you'll find most people are really just jet enthusiasts. Most of the folks arguing with each other from across the globe would probably be good friends if they met at a bar in Vegas after watching Red Flag in Nevada and seeing cool planes flying by all day long.
@@weiyang5959 funny thing is China cant fight a war outside of their borders. America can go anywhere in the world and bring the pain to you. You have no chance. Even if you got your communist buddies, Russia, NK, ect. If all of you invaded our East coast, you couldn't get past the mississippi river. Almost every American owns a gun. Good Luck kung foo master
The F35 had a 20:1 kill ratio at red flag went 8-0 in dogfights against the F15 and can engage multiple targets using multiple assets other than it's self. This plane is simply an assassin in the sky. The stealth works for what it's designed to do. If it didn't, Russia , China , India ect would not be pursuing stealth programs of their own. Side note: as of writing this the SU57 program has been cancelled.
The Serbians were able to shoot down F-117 was largely due to human elements than technical feasibility. The flight schedules were so predictable cuz mission planners never bothered to change the routes for every mission. The SAM battalion was so well trained. So they basically focus fire their tracking radar at the same patch of sky every night until one day they were able to gain a strong enough return to launch the missiles. Long story short. It is absolutely possible to detect a stealth plane, but guiding a weapon to shoot it down is extremely difficult. Besides by the time you have strong enough signals, an enemy weapon is most likely on its way to destroy you.
F-35 already flew dozen PLUS times as Israel used F-35 to bombed in Damascus, so Russians applied their SAMs, S-300, S-400, but did not shoot down, plus almost all the time, F-35 never entered Syria, except those F-16s did, but shoot missiles, air 2 ground, from Lebanon sky, but Russians knew F-35 was in Lebanon sky.
The f22 has a radar cross section the size of a marble or smaller, and has the best radar in the world on board. So it can track mobile radar sites, and get with in a few miles of the radar with out detection and deploy an anti radar missile to destroy the radar site.
If stealth didn't work or wasn't worth investing in.... China, Russia, the Eu, Israel, Iran, Brazil, Canada, South America, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, and every other industrialized nation wouldn't be trying to either develop or acquire stealth craft for themselves.
Stealth's effectiveness depends on what performance is forgone. In the case of the F-35, it's a lot. Payload is strongly limited by its overall size and requirement to fly "clean", while its sustained turn rate, climb and acceleration is badly affected by greater drag from deflective angles, less lift from smaller lifting surfaces and greater weight from stealth materials. It's not supposed to dogfight, therefore. But that only makes the first problem - payload - worse. Its systems must reliably find, identify and engage bogeys long-range. But long-range missiles are larger and heavier because they must carry large fuel loads, which further limits their numbers. The F-35 can carry up to four, but only if it carries nothing else. If it is carrying any other weapon, only two. Worse, A2A missiles (AIM-120's) beyond visual range have a kill ratio of about 35%, which means that pilots will have to use two for a better than even chance. There goes the mission, right there. It's doubtful that engagement of targets of opportunity beyond visual range will be allowed by any rules of engagement short of WW3, anyway. No battlefield is that static. A visual ID will be required - and that's even more necessary because the F-35's systems, fantastically complex as they are, are simply not reliable enough. There's still problems with ghosts, double images and false positives and negatives, and nobody knows how good they'll be at sorting decoys and dummies from the real thing. Don't get me wrong, stealth has its place. For intrusion missions against static targets, it's a very good thing indeed. But there's no doubt that the Russians at least have mobile radars with long wave lengths, and although the resolution might not be good enough to vector a SAM, they can resolve an air space good enough to send interceptors. Once the F-35 is in the same sky as a dedicated interceptor, all bets are off. It's nothing more than a slower and less well-armed F-16. Which is a truly LOUSY return for what it's cost and how long it's taken.
no it's not. russia already has solution to drop stealth aircraft. by using UHF-VHF radars to detect stealth aircraft. then using the engagement radar of s-400 just to guide the AA missile toward the stealth aircraft. then the onboard radar of the missile will be able to detect and lock on stealth aircraft by itself. both china and Russia already have conducted test on this mater. go read www.ausairpower.net/
@Blob B that's why S-400 has bunch of patnsiers and other Close air defense systems by it's side. all of those missile will be shut down before they reach the s-400. and you are forgetting about the electric warfare. Russia has such powerful systems to jam GPS and other tracking systems that those +100 mile ranges won't be accomplish-able.
Kasra Eskandari A close air Defense system and an S-400 literally have nothing to do with GPS jamming systems. Not only do glide bombs not use GPS systems but they use a datalink to a plane. And since you want to mix in other competitors making it a 2 on one against the F-35 I will do the same. Do you think the B-2/ B-21 won’t be used as a missile truck to overwhelm these systems? But enough of that an F-35 is able to be seen at 40Km back by an S-400. What’s stopping it from just dropping it’s missile there and hiding that missile off radar masking it with the F-35’s stealth? The F-35 wasn’t just meant to plow in and brush by the S-400/500 like it’s nothing. That’s what the F-22 is for which is one of the many reasons we sell the F-35 (with no luck at all 😂)
Kasra Eskandari I am actually not to sure about this but there was Ana trickle of an F-35 flying in Turkey (military occupied area as well) Armed with S-400’s and it was said to have flew right over with no,problems. Now I’m not just gonna go “AHA! I WAS RIGHT!” Because there’s many factors into play here. The radar could be off or inactive but we give that the benefit of the doubt.
THAT'S WHY 2 IRANIANS PLANE GOT SURPRISED WHEN 2 F-22 RAPTORS APPEARED BESIDE AND TOLD THEM TO GET OUT OF THE AIR SPACE. I THINK THEY SAW THEM COMING, HAHAHAHA.
@@Johnny-xi4ti The F-35 is not nearly as stealthy as the F-22. And the drones that were intercepted were not are most advanced muppet. They were the same STOCK drones that bitch slapped Soleimani... Speak the truth 👏 and you will learn more.
The shoot down of the F-117 was NOT because of the long wave radar, it was because the F-117 was IMPROPERLY deployed. Also, your data on RAM is incorrect. RAM CAN absorb energy from radar with a wavelength longer than the coating is thick. OTHERWISE, you couldn't heat up a one inch cube of water in a microwave. DERP!
Funny, and sad. Sad because it shows that the level of physical science taught to 7th graders when I went to school has been wiped from ALL levels unless one goes to college to be an engineer or science major. The USA is truly f@cked.
@Patrick EH Oh you and your science. ;) lol Gotta love when people cannot even comprehend basic logic hey? I bet they also think you need a foot thick wall of lead to stop microwave radiation....hence that massive microwave door. People's comprehension about lightwaves aren't very high.
Microwave ovens operate at the resonant frequency of the water molecule. Doesn't matter how thick the water is. it absorbs the energy and gets hot. Agree with you that RAM coating does not need to be as thick as the wavelength. Harmonics is the answer. Whatever is doing the energy absorbing is way more efficient at some repeating math unit of the energy wavelength. 1/4 wave antennas are very common. Tune the coating or the molecular bond length to a repeating multiple of the wavelength and it is effective.
Excellent! You might want to do a follow-up on the effectiveness of radars looking up at that flat F-35 belly and ground-to-air missile that are very fast. Use a distant VHF search radar to pinpoint when the F-35 is directly overhead, active the look-up radar, fire those fast missiles, and then bring down the radar. In a few seconds, that F-35 is toast.
you do realise that you need a radar to guide those missiles towards the target? they have their own radar, but that is only for terminal guidance if you turn of your radar, the missiles will miss
Comparing equipment and debating its capabilities in an important life-and-death scenario isn't a meaningless debate. The premise of "invading" a country with one single plane, however, is meaningless.
yeah, at visual range you can see it. at slightly further range you can see it on IR, at somewhat longer range you can see it on longwave radar, and sometimes longer range than that it can be seen at certain angles. stealth just effectively shrinks detection range, tracking ability, and weapons lock ability, making air defense very difficult, and countermeasures more effective.
I do believe that IRST systems are actually better at detecting an F-35 though, they can detect that some kind of aircraft is 50-70km away, and only if they have their engines turned towards the seeker
@@jurajsintaj6644 Ya, IRST is a huge player. It's weather dependent though, and doesn't have near the range of radar. F-35 has pretty good IR characteristics, and a great 360 deggree IRST system of it's own. So it has an edge. Stealth in general is "somewhat" eroded though by IRST. Fortunately, the F-35's best features aren't really it's stealth.
Even this changes allot on short time, today some radars can see these stealth planes from longer distances. And it is several other countries who can see the stealth fighters on both ground radar combined with the plane's itself it's radar. And there is one country who have had long range stealth radars who also has been upgraded since it was finish developed and in service in 2009. Ps, that FA-117 was shoot down on 40km range in the 90's, so that 15km range is BS. Also stealth drones who is claimed to be stealth, how could Iran see and than use electronic warfare to hack the RQ-170? They couldn't just guess that there was a trone there!? And the same happened under a year later with a Scan Eagle drone, saw it on radar, than hack it. And they still hack US drones, and surly also Israeli, but doesn't tell about it. Iran has the world's largest collection of downed stealth drones in 2019, also a lot of non stealth drones. So just try, all the F-35'. F22's and also the B-2 bomber will be shoot down as soon it enter Iranian airspace. And most drones will do suicide as soon they also enter Iranian airspace!
Of course, you do realize that you are contradicting the smartest man in the known universe, Donald Trump. He says the F-35 is invisible. So you must be wrong.
Stealth is not intended to prevent the aircraft invisible, rather when it can be seen. If you can detect an aircraft hundreds of miles out, you can fire on them before they can attack. If you can only see them after they are within their circle of being able to attack, they can shoot and scoot, you will be attacked but it is too late to take them out.
I do not know what exactly was used for first detect of F-117 over Serbia but it was shot down by S-125 Neva system so that mean that system need to see him also (those missiles are semi active)And it was not only few miles from the radar. First contact was about 60km maybe even 70km from the sam. F-117 was on returning route from bombing run.
I don’t get into the quality and expected performance etc. of the J-20. I think, it is great to see, that China has the guts and the will to develop their very own designs. However there are still a lot of limitations - avionics are known to be not as superior than Russian avionics and by far not as advanced as Western. The issue is, that there is no rationale behind your statement. First of all - what does it even mean: “beat the J20”? Shooting down? Well, the F-35 might be as fast (or might even be faster) than the J-20 (drag is for sure much smaller, the J-20 has old Mig-29 engines)... Do you mean, that the J-20 “beats” the F-35 in weapons load? That make sense - but this detail is meaning less. I seen an analysis which shows, that the J-20 probably should be an interceptor - and that would make sense. It is far more interesting to see, what the Chinese developing after the J-20. If they come up with improved designs (and further completely new aircrafts) - and if they will learn out of their previous mistakes. And if they will be able to produce their own engines?
China patented 800,000 inventions last year, while the US only patented 200,000. They graduate 50 times the engineers as the US does per year and 23% of the engineers the US does graduate are Chinese who have more opportunities returning home. The Chinese own materials research, supercomputing and robotics.Why are you so ignorant to assume that other countries are so backward. Much of China is much more modern than the US which has not invested in infrastructure for 40 years, has no high-speed rail(China is #1 of course and even Africa has more high-speed rail than all of North America), it has a larger middle class, far more outgoing tourism etc. Heck, China has more English speakers than the US, your ignorant racism is showing. Get used to being a second-class country with a dying middle class and impoverished working class. 100 countries now have a higher qualit of life than the US for the average person.
The other important part to the stealth fighter lost to the Serbs is that it flew the same path every night. They knew where to look for it and were able to find it.
The best reason, is Turkey feels its biggest threat is from the air. And the best way to protect your airspace is with an air defense system. It's not the f35's design to be an interceptor.
Well its cheaper and stealthy wont work against Israel since they already have f35 im sure they also figured out how to counter its stealth capabilities..
I read last year in Science magazine, that the Chinese also have come up with a jamming technology that once the stealth plane has been detected, it can scramble it's signal, and would not be able to be controlled by the pilot or autopilot and would then be able to be shot down.
Accept with a full combat load it can super cruise at mach 1.5 while most other gen 4 although faster, cant super cruise with a full combat load at higher than mach 1.3
you dont know what you are talking about, you know nothing about the F35 capabilities, your chinese and russian fighter jets are junk, and that is not even taking into account the F22 Raptor, you will not even know what hit you, only hope to be incinerated quickly
@@Tux0xFF 😅F35 is🐖💩only Mark 1.1 slow short 1100 miles is junk and price 😂 joke F16 faster and longer miles F35 🐖🐖🐷💩👎🤮😝 Russia bomber tu160 mark 2 and 10000 miles F35 is joke 🤣 😅 😅 😅 😅
Even though stealth technology doesn't propose total invisibility, it makes detecting of the plane quiet pointless, because when the radar localize the plane they run out of time for preventing attack
Years ago, the US flew the U2 over Russia and Russia finally managed to shoot one of them down. Remember Gary Powers? At first my lying government denied they had a U2 plane and of course that was just for their own citizens consumption. But lo and behold, the damn pilot was still alive! So they changed their story! Then they made a stealth plane called the SR71 and constantly flew that over Russia until Russia made missiles and radar that could destroy it. Then they started using satellites. Now my government has made many other stealth planes, B1, f117, f22 and f35 and etc. Russia does not have any stealth planes. My government has destroyed many many many countries by both bribing and by bombs. My government has many bases in other countries, maybe as many as 400. My government fully supports both Israel and Saudi Arabia, the two worst countries on the planet. My government is the only country to needlessly use an atomic bomb and was the first country to make such a thing. My government killed almost 3 million people in another country, Vietnam, that had never harmed them and I saw that massacre up close and personal. We even took babies into a ditch and shot them in the head and what our brave soldiers did to their mothers is the stuff of nightmares! (Calley and his bunch) But there was a constant Mai Lai. Thank you America! You gonna save the planet! Yessiree! I wish I could pay for my medicine. Oh well, I am just a 72 year old! What do I know.
Israel is one of the two worst countries on earth? Not those shit bag countries all around it, but the one tolerant, democratic, multi cultural one? Hmmmmm. I don't think so. I don't remember Israel throwing homosexuals off of roof tops, I don't remember Israel stoning women or refusing to allow them to drive or basic rights. Doesn't Israels political system have Muslims in power? Show me the Muslim nation with any Jew in political power. Oh and Ron, if it wasn't pointed out to you before, you can travel freely in America, feel free to leave.
Yes, tell the Russians "why yes good sir I was sending spy planes into your territory breaking international agreements, do you have any issues good sir?" And yes tell the Japanese "Why yes good sir I would end the war here and now with some quick bombings to scare your pants off but no, I'm going to conduct a brutal land invasion from the South and our pals the soviets from the north sound good sounds good. Oh prepare your asses too, the soviets are known for raping who they invade. Don't worry, the millions of avoidable deaths are worth it because we didn't use a big scary nuke."
The 500mph seagull, must be an F-35.
Vengeful Avenger americunts? That’s a bit rude
Seagull? The radar cross section of an F-35 is less than a sparrow.
Or a wingull using quick attack
A seagull with one golden tooth.
@@michaelrunnels7660 tell that to the S-400
Stealth isn’t about not being seen. It’s about seeing the enemy before they see you.
Do you think they can make Trump Stealthy?
Peter Wilson sure, I mean he already matches the sunset 🌅
@@peterwilson5528 lol
shht
@Anthony Timmers It's not intended to be a dog fighter, that's what the F-15's, F-16's and F-22 Raptors are for. It's more like a command and control platform for the other airborne weapons and a sneak attack fighter. But Yeah I pretty much agree in a straight up dog fight against a pilot with similar skills it will probably get the short end of the stick. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
As a former ECM (Electronic Counter Measures) Detection & Jamming Technician you have presented this information Very Well. In war or otherwise their are a few battlefields most people know about and a few they don't know about. They are the Air Battlefield & Ground Battlefield these are the ones most people know about and see on the news. The others are the Electronic Warfare Battlefield, the Cyber Battlefield and soon the Space Platforms Battlefield. Radars are in both the Air and the Electronic Battlefields and soon the Space Battlefield. The only short coming of these systems is that in a time of war, in order to get around them or deny their use we do one or more of the following things:
1. Jam them. Use the radars frequency at high power and feed it back into the system. They are some really cool electronics that do this and most nations have them. The process of how it's done by each nation is highly classified to prevent an enemy from finding a weakness to the electronic process.
2. Deceive them. Electronically manipulate them to make the screen move the actual target to another part of their radar screen. So if they shoot a missile it goes to where the tracking system says it is rather than where it really is.
3. False target them. Electronically manipulate them to flood the screen with hundreds if not thousands of targets to deny them effect use of it. They could shoot all their missiles and still not hit a thing. At that point they usually turn them off or they become a target themselves. Radar signals can be tracked both ways!
4. Destroy them. Prior to an operation we send out teams of either aircraft or personnel to detect and mark the location of them.Then we jam them and send in missiles to lock onto their location and track the source back to the antenna or command center and blow it up. This is done with stealth aircraft, for hard sites we use cruise missiles or Special Ops teams. Iraq's "Shock and Awe" was part of step 4's process.
Part of the detection process is to fly into a restricted area forcing them to turn them on so we can find and destroy them.
Most nations are familiar with the process so the best effective counter measure is to use mobile platforms and only turn the radars on when it's absolutely necessary for that particular area. If they turn them on before it's necessary we locate them and take them out. It's a cat and mouse game, like snipers hunting snipers in a jungle. That's why spy satellites are so important as they are used to track their location and possibly jam them as needed. Or even sneakier put or false reading to force them to turn on the radar making is location known. You should do another video on these subjects. Thanks for the nice video. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
Well it good to swipe down comment section sometimes it can provide gold
Well this is the most helpful comment in this section.
@@vivekkaushik9508 Thank You Vivek. Electronic Warfare is one of the more interesting battle fields, especially when you deploy Stealth Aircraft in conjunction with non-stealth planes and both passive and active ECM. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
@John Smith That's assuming that the Chinese Government is telling the truth. There are a lot of experts out there questioning China's claim. The CCP is well known to exaggerate to buy time or "Save Face", in difficult situations and we all know the situation developing in the South China Seas and the Solomon Islands, and with factories closing and moving to other countries, and the Wuhan Virus and the trade war and Southern China Sea countries becoming more aggressive and at odds with China. Xi JinPing is in trouble politically at home, and this could be just one much needed ploy for the home team to support him, and give his foreign enemies pause.
So Xi JinPing's home and foreign situation lends one to question if the Quantum Interference Radar really exist, and if it does how effective is it in reality. I don't take anything China says as full truth and neither should anyone else. The only way for the QIR to be believable is for it to be tested on non-Chinese Stealth Aircraft, and I don't see that being done anytime soon.
As far as it being the all to be all radars, as some have said, I have yet to see a radar that the pulses can't be detected and fed back into it with the same pulses with special encoding to jam it or trick it, as I have stated in my original post. It seems about every few years some radar guys make the claim their radar can't be jammed. We then take up a ECM aircraft and jam it. They go home with their pride shattered and back to the drawing board. Remember what ever comes out MUST come back in to be detected and decoded. That is the weakness of every radar system out there, no matter how sophisticated it is. Pulses & frequencies, including light wavelength pulses, can be recorded and fed back into it with different perimeters to jam it, trick it or exploit it. Of course if it is a viable system you always have the old standard tactics, bait and switch. Basically cause a diversion somewhere and come at them from another direction. It will be interesting to see if it is real though. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
@John Smith I agree QIR is very possible, being impossible to jam yeah as a former ECM and Radio Technician who's familiar with detection and some of the systems I don't believe it. Anything that can be detected can be copied and re-transmitted after it's altered, including encoded signals. Now don't think the word jammed means straight not detectable, it includes tricking or manipulating the signals that alter the displayed information on the operators screen. Until QIR is actually demonstrated as effective it itself is a thesis. However the detection, manipulation and reseeding of RF and Light Emission Signals is not a thesis, it's reality and used on every battle field including ground troops. Here's a nice article on the concept of jamming Light emitted and light recievers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_countermeasure. This same concept can be applied to any encoded light emitting transmitter that expects to have a light source returned and detected. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya
"sorry we didn't know it was invisible" The Enemy
invisible and stealthy are two quite different concept.
A10: if you hear the brrrt, you're not the target.
F35: If you see it in radar, you're not the target.
Well 10 and 30 are AFR.
RT....
R 92 is also beast
Nope
*sees F-35 in radar as enemy* right back at ya.
Well I can see it with my naked eyes, who needs radar
At night, at a distance of 50 kilometers?
Shabdik Acharyya if you can see it with your naked eyes then it’s already completed it’s mission
15 miles away? ps can you say "oh shit" before the missile hits you?
@mandellorian
Thanks for the update.
Because by the time your able to see it with your naked eye,,,,Your already dead. It killed you way before you saw it.
Not many people realize this, but civilian air control radars with their long wavelength and massive dishes can effortlessly detect F-35/F-22/J-20/J-31. They just aren't precise enough to create a weapon lock.
One way around this is combining long wavelength and tightly beamed short wavelength radars, the long wavelength radar would find the general location, while short wavelength beam zooms in on it for weapon lock.
There's also another approach that's arguably more effective specifically against F-35: combining long wavelength radar with infrared. Long wavelength radar would find the general location and send the missile there, when within visual range, infrared sensor on the nose of the missile takes over and homes in. This approach works due to a design flaw in F-35 that's not present in F-22/J-20/J31: extremely hot engine exhaust. Rather than using 2 cooler running engines, Lockheed Martin pushed one engine way past reasonable threshold for its size in order to produce enough thrust for the overweight F-35. During normal cruise, F-35 leaves a hot tail that lights up like a beacon in the sky, comparable to typical fighters with afterburners on. It's not something that can be fixed without a complete redesign.
Civilian S band weather radar also theoretically has a chance to detect stealth aircraft although they would typically not be set up in a way to do so.
Stealth fighters have to wear radar reflectors in order to be tracked by ATC, are you sure about what you're saying?
I could be wrong, but how hot an engine exhaust is also depends upon the thrust setting at the time. A F-35 running at full mil-power may look hotter than a comparable jet at mil-power, but anything less than that, and I don't see why the F-35 will be the ball of heat that everyone talks about. The large amount of thrust available to the engine isn't in use all the time.
Counter-stealth solutions do exist, but they are not guaranteed to work. It's impossible to counter stealth aircraft with one or two gadgets alone. A comprehensive rebuild and restructuring of the air defense network is needed, one that costs the kind of money only oil-rich Muslim countries may be able to give. For example, your IR-SAM (not sure if such a thing even exists right now, think the US has a dual-seeker one, but can't remember its name) may be able to guide itself to a F-35, but the plane has powerful ECM/IRCM, towed decoys, sensors that will be picking up almost every radar's activity in the region (save for LPI ones maybe), and a MAWS that will warn the pilot very early. The inevitable result is uncertainty. Stealth is only a part of the 5th gen fighter philosophy.
Another case of a weapons systems that breaks the back of the dopes financing it which can be easily negated with a far cheaper countermeasure.
The generals and politicians have long forgotten the KISS principle that has won all modern wars.
"Cheaper"? Have you asked the Russians how much their 2000 S-300 launchers have cost them? Or their 250+ S-400s (reportedly 50 million USD per launcher, according to a claim of 400m for 8 launchers, that's half a F-35 per launcher). Have you asked them how much a Nebo SVU and other early warning/search radars cost? How about their Su-35s, at 50 million per plane, again 1/2 of a F-35, with a radar that is largely useless against a F-35 because its emissions can be used to generate targeting data for AMRAAMs. Or maybe you should ask about the PAK-FA, though that's probably a sensitive matter since it's getting delayed again...and again...and again...
I will stick to the KISS principle in order to tell you this: There is no KISS in warfare. Not any more. When your enemy goes one step further, even the simplest counter is expensive, and actually risks being insufficient. And when you deploy something like that, you need to deploy them in bigger numbers, which more than likely ends with you spending the same amount of money.
Various ECM and decoys are also present in 4th and 4.5th generation fighters. Not to mention it using many types of ECM actually reveals the stealth fighter's presence by emitting large amount of radiation. The point is, F-35's unusually hot exhaust can potentially compromise its stealth and render it no more effective than current 4th generation fighters. Speaking of which, F-35's flight characteristics and base performance is quite poor even by 4th generation jet standard. It cannot supercruise, its speed, maneuverability, climb rate, range, payload, and many other base specs are far below that of some earlier 4th generation jets, some of which it's supposed to replace. In fact, it's not considered by many experts to be true 5th generation fighter, but rather 4.5, thanks to it lacking some of the specifications crateria deemed necessary for 5th generation.
As for KISS, yes, F-35 started off with the promise of simple, cheap, effective aircraft. But over the years, more and more equipment is piled onto it, overloading the engine, which had to be pushed harder and harder, producing the hot exhaust that compromised its own stealth. Even then, thrust to weight ratio is below many 4th generation fighters, resulting in lack of supercruise capability, limited range and poor performance. Early models of X-35 is actually more stealthy than current F-35. The plane's structure had to be redesigned to accommodate additional equipment, resulting in bumps and protrusions in the body that adds to RCS.
In some ways, the Chinese J-31 is what F-35 should have been: light, simple, cheap, effective. Many Americans claim J-31 was built on stolen F-35 data. I don't think the irony dawned on them.
Short answer: yes
Long answer: To an extent... any country could potentially detect it
but it would be too late for all of them
@@justafloridamanfromthe75thRR why
@@justafloridamanfromthe75thRR late?lol it was late for the f35 when 4 su35 intercepted them
@@Johnny-xi4ti when did that happen?
@@justafloridamanfromthe75thRR i dont know exactly i think it was a year or maybe more
I want my enemies to severely underestimate my assets.
Correct, but it's more dangerous to overestimate own asserts, as US speciality.
lol, you cannot even type your own language. it is *main. Stupid troll
MyImList Multiple bombing runs on 3rd world countries, lol. Even if you take the aging F-16 it would still be invincible fighting against 3rd world countries. That just say a lot about the USA bullying other country with no significant power to submission. Fight against Russian/Chinese latest equipment and you'll see heavy losses of the F-35.
@@akid1263 the so called third world country's were using Russian made fighters including Mig 29 and Su 27's they are both newer then the F 16 AND f 15's the US was using, over 40 years the kill ratio for America made fighters over Russian made fighters is in favor of America made 156/0 , ,russian made did not win even ONE time lol , its not America fighting third world country's its America made killing russian made ever time lol nice try bitch hahaha with your russian junk lol
@@akid1263 you cant even beat the F 15 / F 16's hahaha russia and china make nothing but cheap JUNK ,you can never catch the USA not in this life time lol
I thought that the Serbs who shot down the F117 also knew from previous flights from Italy when and where the 117 was going to arrive.
There's a lot of speculation about what the hell happened with that shootdown. There have been all sorts of outrageous claims: Serbs having spies watching the F-117s taking off, IR/electro-optical mods being done to the SAMs/radar used, field mods to give the radar a greater wavelength, all sorts of stuff. The only thing known for sure, because Zelko said so, is that he saw the SAMs being launched, which means by the time they could get a firing solution on him, he was probably rather close. Of course, a SAM launch is probably visible from quite far away in nighttime, but then again it can only be so far.
Well, it's unlikely a SAM launch could be seen 122 miles away, even at night, and a SA-3 could not fly that far anyway. IIRC the guy in charge of the SAM site said detection happened at 50-60km, and the launch range I don't remember, but I think he gave one that was under 20km. Again, there are all sorts of various versions of the story, and they're all next to impossible to confirm.
I imagine most fatal SAM launches are going to be within visual range if the pilot's looking. Pretty obvious smoke column.
Yes. That and the Serbs had broken into the NATO coms and knew where it would be and when. If you watch the interview of the officer who was in command there, he flat out said that they knew it was over them and he manually guided it to the plane and then when it got close enough it detected the plane and blew up.
it was shot down because it took the same flight path it wasn't supposed to take and was detected by radar when the doors of bomb bay opened up
A very simplistic overview of how radar is used. Yes, if you have a 1950s vintage radar looking head on at an F35 then it would not see it until it was 15 miles away. But when you have modern AESA radars, all data-linked and looking at the target from multiple angles then it is a completely different story.
BTW, the quoted RCS of the F35 is only for front and is not the all-aspect RCS.
Yea, he didn't mention the 360 degrees aspect of the radar signature. Though he did show the RCS of other directions in the image.
@@neurofiedyamato8763 Still, u also have to consider that even if a radar detects the plane in some way, still a big difference with having a lock on the plane and shooting it down. F35 might even have some security system against that too with it's advanced technology :)
@@Zim-ks6pb Lmao, u must be joking. The F35 has lowered a lot in price btw and is cheaper than a Rafale for example. Systems like S300 even fail to shoot down F16 in Syria, u think they would hit F35? And Turkey couldn't have S400 with F35 yes but that's just so russia couldn't spy with it and have an easier way to detect F35.
The problem is not necessarily detecting them. It's the battlefield management that it presents. 1) It can supposedly fire weapons remotely from other vehicles/aircraft inside the box. 2) It jams those bands and returns the signal with scrambled data which makes it off course. 3) ECS has advanced beyond S300 & S400 ranges
Any aircraft is detectable. The question is "At what range?".
Just as Castle Defense was in a race with siege machines and tactics, so too will "stealth" be in a race with target acquisition technology. If all players have similar targeting prowess, those with the smaller RCS and thermal signature will rule the day. "First shot, first splash". No getting around it.
All modern fighter aircraft are limited by the biological 9G limit. Even if that were not the case, no aircraft can endure the 20G turns of a AAM.
Also, when you are penetrating airspace that are covered by these radar sites, typically you will send in aircraft equipped with HARM's first. You can hit targets out to 150 km.
@@БојанПавловић-е3й Also, the only reason they had radar in those areas is because the ops coordinators kept the F117 on pretty much the same flight corridor for their missions, so they knew where to place the AA sites to intercept.
Russia has a pasiv location systems similary like Tamara and Vera-NG. They can locate all stealth plane if the plane use radio or SAT comunication or radar, radio altitudemeter. atc.
Not the plane has to use it, the radio signal just has to be there... a single Walky Talky signal from a Child playing is enough
Just started watching your videos. Gota say... Very well done! Professional, Informational, Understandable, and Entertaining. You just earned yourself a new FAN!
Israel acknowledged that Syria detected and fired at F-35s with S-200, which is Soviet air-defense system roughly from 1970s.
If that can detect them...
Israel has F-35s already ?
@@ERJLifer They also got Bradleys before the US army did, back in the day
*F-16
@@drpickles6066 probably fake just like everything sirya goberment says. You need a video to prove It and therese no one (that i know xd), f35 may be prepared to electronic warfare and thats probably the reason. Pf being stealth doesnt make you invissible
@@jaime7295 Israel tell f35 being damage, but because of bird.
Basically F35 is stealth , if you have no radar
@MyImList what usa doing is fake the news , and give it a bigger shape so everyone should be afraid of it , but in reality you can shoot it down with your shoe
Or if you have S-300 and S-400 systems like Syria and Iran. Israel has already proven that the F-35 can fly anywhere in the Middle East unimpeded. I find it interesting that you think you could shoot one down, when the advanced air defense systems in Iran, Iraq, and Syria have not been able to. You're acting like the nations are not testing the F-35 in real combat, when everyone knows that they are being used. What is really going on and it is very obvious, is that you're jealous that whatever nation you come from cannot even build a WWI style airplane, let alone the most advanced aircraft in the world. Your jealousy leads you to hate anything produced by America and it leads you to produce bullshit excuses and lies. If the F-35 is so easy to shoot down, how is it that Israel, the best and most powerful democracy in the Middle East, can fly them straight into Iran without having a single one shot down? Why hasn't one been shot down, even though they are already seeing real combat? You see, with just one seconds worth of critical thinking and even you should be able to see how brain-dead you really are. Real life facts have proven that you're a moron before you even made this claim. You're literally stating lies about the F-35, when the F-35 is literally wiping out Iranian forces all through the Middle East. The F-35 looks to be the weapon that will destroy the Iranian military the Daniel 8 talks about in the Bible. Israel has already proven that they can do it with the F-35 when Israeli F-35s flew right into Iranian airspace. You must be totally under-educated and you seem like you must chew those leaves everyone chews over there because you're dumb as fuck.
Do you even speak English? That’s not what the video says.
and at night, jajajaja.
@@bogdanivchenko3723 what?
I was a radar specialist in the Army for my first mos. We used all types from sentinels to q36s, and i could pick up a damn seagal if i wanted to. Its about reducing the signature so you can fly around it.
How powerful or complete does a "signature" have to be actually to have a lock on an aircraft?
The question should be, does F35 dare to fly over Russia / China?
Pompaeo and Bolton are working on it....
if you have to actually fly over a country to get information you're doing it wrong. But if we did have to actually fly over a country the f22 would be a much better choice in every way. It's faster, 2 man crew, better stealth, better range and less technical issues with the aircraft itself.
gabrielhii1995 No! The Russians have most of there about 150 Battalions of S400 and S300 networked. They are also networked with all Civilian Radars and there big powerful Ground Radars. If not completed it is well under way.
All late Aircraft are networked also.
Odds on they will be able to track and target Stealth Aircraft. Multiple very powerful ground radars in a network. There secret exactly what the details are.
@@LouSaydus how you want to flight over china or russia with limited fuel ....
New question, how long will China last i this tariff-trade war?
There’s nothing that cannot be detected. Especially as big as a jet.
everything can be detected but that doesnt mean you can do anything about it
Also, keep in mind! Radar stations is a two-way street, that can detect you but you can detect them just as easily. We do have air to ground missiles that when fired home in on radar signals from 100+ miles out. The f-35 is a multi-role fighter it can carry these missiles on its wings, by the time the radar station gets a faint detection, it is already too late, the missile was on its way and radar is toasted. Once the radar stations are destroyed the F-35's job is over and the F-22 come roaring in behind them to mop up any and all enemy aircraft in the airspace for air superiority. F-35 can stick around assist ground operations if need be. Remember attack operations are not done and over with in one single blow when dealing with a well prepared enemy.
Lol, u forgot these radars are also able to detect missiles from long range & intercept them? A fairly modern sam system like russian s300 would easily do that, only if you send lots of missiles and use some extra tech like radar jamming or decoys perhaps but still the system will detect & neutralize some rockets.
according to an interview given by an f35 pilot the "stealth" function of the f35 is deferent from the b2 spirit or f22. even the general notion of the stealth capability is misunderstood,,, according to him, the idea is not to become invisible but to hard and impossible to keep track and fixed for anti air defenses. in other words, it's not about being seen, it's the difficulty to lock and shot down the f35. with a smaller signature, and intermittent appearance in the enenmy radar (including low frequency ones) the pilot can make use of maneuver, route changing to overcome very conplex defensive systems. up to today the f22 is still the most steaplh fighter her available, but it is way to expensive to maintain and fly.
Not only that but the F-22s Avionics are dinosaurs from 90s, it needs a tech upgrade like the F-35 has.
Well said and right on the money.
rightly said,it's funny some people misunderstood stealth for invisivility...
SpydreX Official We have built only around 200 f22s and never exported them. We are definitely upgrading the computer systems on those beauties. Same thing we are doing with our A10s
Yeah. The people in the comments remind me of current Russia, which still thinks that a stronger nuke will make them any stronger
All planes can be detected (except MH370) it's a question of who can detect who first...big advantage
Ah, genus, to achieve radar invisibility, hide underwater, nothing can see you.
@@peiranzhang4283 sonar tho 🤔
@@RCsFinest in order to beat sonar, just take to the skies. Simple really.
or just fly really low, like an ekranoplan. That way neither radar or sonar will find you!
Yes. I think America should learn from Malaysia on how they created stealthy commercial airplane
Much much much thanks for the information. Stealth itself is not enough that proves it. My respect to you from India and I am a upsc faculty and this is extremely useful as I teach all this.
It was my understanding that the F-117 shoot down was aided by the fact that the Air Force used the same flight pattern 2 nights in a row which was key in getting the plane tracked.
It doesn't take away from the accomplishment and doesnt change the fact that they can be shot down, but it sure helps if you're expecting them in a designated flight corridor.
Yup they had info about the flight patterns and just winged it
With spys watching runways and reporting takeoffs.
Also they threw up boat loads of missiles and one caught it while domb bay door was open. A known risk.
All aircraft are detectable. Complete stealth will probably never be achievable. The giant B2 Spirit has a RCS comparable to that of a large bird. A lot of the arguments against the F-35 can be disproved by pointing out the flaws ALL aircraft have. The F-35 does have some unique challenges itself. The F-35 isn't perfect, it has flaws. A lot of which either have been worked out, or are being worked out.
The idea that stealth is supposed to make aircraft invisible is funny because it's propaganda used on both sides. The US sometimes claim their aircraft are invisible, while the Russians and Chinese claim they've detected it, therefore it's not. In reality it's not invisible, but stealth is about detection and targeting ranges.
Also, a perfect example of an aircraft doing worse is the F-16. Those things were falling out of the sky for many years yet people don't even argue that they are bad.
Hm I mostly agree about stealth. I think that there was not necessary American propaganda about these airmusters to begin with (because they were even for the longest time classified) - I think it was rather the press, which misinterpret the weapon system’s purpose.
Stealth is just another group of systems, which incrementally improves the survivability and increases the effectivity of a war plane. Like other systems “the enemy” is developing counter-systems and it is a back and forth between technologies. However I actually believe (and this is just a educated wild ass guess), that stealth is one disrupting technology groups, which at this point cannot be neutralized or even lessened by a wide margin.
About the F-16, I am not that sure. F-16 were intended to be a “throwaway airplane” - they are were rather cheap (not necessary anymore true with the latest upgrades) and agile - and let’s be honest, if you would like to have the “best” material with a similar mission, you would go for a F-15. Additionally F-16’s were used as Wild Weasels, which is a mission, which predictable has the biggest loss rates of all.
@ivanlagrossemoule
You also have to take the "detecting" of stealths with a grain of salt. The Brits claimed they detected one of the German stealth subs in WWII and sunk it in the English Channel, after Germany confirmed it lost one. A dive on the discovered crash site decades later discovered that it was neither where the Brits claimed, nor hit by a torpedo, but an underwater mine.
Everytime I hear someone claim to have detected a stealth, it reminds me of all the times our troops would claim to have "detected" our sniper positions. Meanwhile, they were staring at a rock on a hill, about 2 km away from the actual sniper position.
Everyone has an eagle eye to spot these things....until they actually have to pinpoint it. Given that a seagull would show up on their radar the same as a B2 Spirit, I cannot help but wonder how many times a flock of birds were flying overhead and some champion at the helm of the radar made a breakthrough discovery of incoming stealths.
Whynot f35 fly over russian airspace so true will come out
@@ivanlagrossemoule They did and they argued the f 15 was shitty and overpriced too. Just look up some the newspapers back in the 70's and 80's.
if it has weapons on the external hardpoints it's easy to detect,if it doesn't it's payload is reduced to 2 bombs and can only defend itself in the air with it's cannon
Yes they can
And 1 trillion dollar goes into corporates pocket.
We no longer detecting reflected waves . Since 1990 we started using as we called now 3d radar system , this means multiple radars covering same area detecting ,,empty spaces" and reflections . I'm not Russian for the record...
Кирил Кирилов But you are Russian off the record 😉
The F-35 is the only plane in the world capable of linking to ships below it and planes beside it and firing/guiding missiles from them. So essentially, as long as other planes and ships are in the area, it can launch from them and use its targeting system. It can also track dozens of targets at once. In this way, yes, an F-35 could take out dozens of targets on its own in regards to tracking the targets and sending missiles from other planes/ships to them after it was out of its own missiles.
S 125 Neva vs F- 117 Yugoslavia 1999 😏
that was an exception, will never happen again.
@@justafloridamanfromthe75thRR don't fool yourself. iran used a vostok radar to capture Rq-180 a few years back.
@Blob B that was enough to ground all F-117 through out the rest of the war and even Destroy USA Reputation.
@Blob B by chance hahahahaha
@Blob B How many nighthawk just flew over in an entire war?
I want to calculate percentage
America has spent far too much money on its new stealth aircraft for something that Russia could easily shoot down
I recall back in 1992 GEC Marconi were testing their latest Radar and they phoned a US Airbase in the UK near Basildon to confirm some radar movements that occurred over the previous night. They were astonished that GEC Marconi queried the 2 aircraft arriving in the early hours of the morning. Apparently they asked how do you know of the movements that occurred at 2am? The engineer responded they were logged by our new radar system. That was a nail in the coffin of mythical stealth aircraft, the latest generation synthetic aperture radars (SAR) in the early 1990s were capable of detecting and tracking the F-117 Night Hawk. Like now, the latest generation of optical sensors now compliment Radar in the detection of threats
Well i dont know for russia and china
But serbia certenly can
Then why'd they allow the F-117 to bomb them into submission? Were they intentionally losing the war?
@@ivanlagrossemoule yes they did,so they have some to destroy later XD
@MyImList and it only took 10000 missiles to get one tank
Moze srbija ka sta je mogla 91 hahhahahaha
@@ivanlagrossemoule ofc bro
The F117 got shot down cause its bomb doors were open to drop. Australia can detect the distortion in the air, detecting is one thing, shooting is another.
It's not about being invisible under all circumstances, it's about being far more likely to see first and have options from there giving a huge advantage. Will they see f-35 far enough away is the question.
Shooting down of f117 bomber in Yugoslavia in 1999. is a case that shows how to do it. I didnt know that Serbs used low-frequency radar, but I heard the story of radar personal how they did it. They switched radar signal on and off to avoid being spotted. Radar was on in intervals not longer than 5 seconds. They waited for the plane to come closer and closer. When he came at 15 km distance, the missile was fired, and the plane was down.
Горан Нешић That was a plane that was always flying at the same place, same height and same time for a long time. The Serbs just waited for it to come so it isn't really comparable
Yes, maybe he made a mistake, like a thief moving into the house through the same window, but i think the main point is that the owner of the house waits for him in the dark (the owner of the house KNOWS that the thief is coming) and turns the light at the right moment and shoot immediatley. When the stealth plane comes over a hostile territory, he might come very close to air defense that turned its radar off waiting for him to come closer.
Горан Нешић hhhhhhhhhhhh. true.
I think the most important part of it is that it was shot down at short range. The biggest issue when fighting stealth is that it highly reduces detection/targeting ranges, and it's pretty much impossible with our current technology to make up for most of that advantage. Even the S-400 or S-500 for that matter can't solve that issue.
Yes, it's difficult to deal with stealth . But since he is hiding, you have to play the hide-and-seek game too. It's difficult, but it is not impossible to get him.
I have not heard anything about the new Russian photonic radar. There is no STELS technology for this radar.
@Tommy Shelby naukatehnika.com/fotonnye-radary-fotonika-stels-texnologii.html
The F35 is only in stealth mode when it's head on. So if you see a bird flying over 100 mph, it's NOT a bird.
correct, but you will detect that bird from 30, not 300km away
Guys the F35 is NOT a stealth aircraft, it just has some stealth characteristics.
It is most definitely a stealth aircraft, it sacrificed quite a bit of speed and maneuverability for it to be a multi-role stealth aircraft. It's not as good as the F-22 in stealth but it is most definitely a stealth plane nonetheless. It's just that stealth isn't the invincible technology that will make it the best plane ever as people like to claim it to be.
HOW DARE YOU...
It is a stealth aircraft by any present definition of stealth. I would say an example of a non-stealth plane with stealth characteristics would be something like the Gripen-E or Su-35.
Nooo, really?
@@neurofiedyamato8763 I have not heard anything about the new Russian photonic radar. There is no STELS technology for this radar.
Here come the YT experts who have a degree from “know it all” University.
@@precisi0n86 nicely said m8 I'm sick of ppl talking shit not knowing what the fuck is going on. As my dad was in the military, he had lots of reading materials and military manuals explaining the complexity of every military asset they had in the base he was stationed at. I've read a lot of those and still I barely know the surface of how all that works.
To all the shiteaters who are reading: BEFORE YOU COMMENT WITH A PILE OF SHIT TALKS DO SOME FUCKING RESEARCH FIRST!!!
Stop crying dude, this guy provide us with fact, you only believe what US army say. Even pilots who fly with F35 says its bad in manuevering, climbing and it cant outrun. Even f16 won in dogfight..
@@fuzzX I know that so well bet still there's those bitch ass kiddos thinking the F-35 us the ultimate undetectable and untouchable jet. But Syria took down Izraeli F-35 with an old ass S-200.
Before I decide to write shit I make sure I'm not talking bullshit
Miroslav Stefanov You are most definitely talking bullshit lmao. First of all there is no evidence of the F-35 from israel ever being shot down. Second of all the whole point if the aircraft is to strike before it’s detected, which so far in dog fight training, it has done just that. And nobody is saying the F-35 is undetectable. You’re an idiot
freedomfyter, lol, I call it ‘Googology’! It’s fun to come back and look how well some of the posts have aged. btw, China and Russia want to come to the table for arms caps now. You won’t read that here will you? 😅 -ret USAFJAG
Many years ago, an RAF Vulcan bomber called an American airbase for permission to land. It was on a joint training program, and informed the ground controller of this. If the airbase was in Europe, that would be one thing, but the airbase was in the middle of Texas and no one had seen it's arrival from the UK. The RAF have spent decades perfecting low flying, and it still seems to work. In WW2, a Lancaster bomber on a night raid, flying at 30 feet, had another Lancaster fly below him. lol
Reminded me of our own Pilots in the Israeli air force, Flying so low that in Operation Focus to catch the Egyptians by supraise one of the pilots hit an electricity stand (It was around 15 - 25 meters above ground), After the war some of the other pilots in the squadron became very religious, Especially the one who survived captivity and had his leg butchered.
For the amount of money spent on f35 america could have probably given free healthcare and college tuition for everyone
You need to do some math guy both of what you bring up cost multipule trillions each. Hell medicare for all would cost 31 trillion dollars.
@Somarik Green Yea lets cut the budget while ww3 is coming. Real smart. People like you shouldn't be making decisions. I mean i gotta ask are you a bleeding heart or is it lack of spine.
Is great info but lack one single statement.The F-117 was easy to track because super confident on the technology US sent F-117"s on the same freaking route so made the plane expected sooner or later on that airspace. One of the stealth rule is avoiding the same airspace use on many missions.
Also it was only seen at extremly close range and only when it opened its bombing bays. This was confirmed by Zoltan Dani, the commander responsible for the shoot down.
Stealth rule? Official direct source to this supposed set of rules you speak of? Sounds made up.
Great video as always! I don't know why people dislike your content. It's a unbiased analysis of the pros, cons, counters and counter-counters. This is the content we need more of in military channels! I always knew low frequency radars are able to detect but not as good at guiding missiles but I didn't know why when compared to high frequency ones. But your explanation made it very easy to understand.
However you forgot to mention that an aircraft isn't universally low signature from all directions. The cited RCS is from the front which is what designers focus on but the side, top, bottom and rear is much higher. Against a integrated network, you may be hidden from one radar site, but another to your side may detect you. And when you turn away after engaging, you might be spotted since you are no longer facing the lowest RCS profile to the enemy radar.
People act like the F-35 can't engage with it's own weapons the whole time to counter a treat as well and has to sneak up and literally touch the target undetected. No body said the F-35 is invulnerable but, it's low observable characteristics do give it a clear advantage when employing it's own anti-air or anti radiation munitions.
The internet is always one extreme to another. It is better to have stealth than not. But stealth isn't the holy grail of aircraft technology. But US fanboys will say stealth rules while Russian/Chinese fanboys will say the plane is grounded 24/7 or some shit.
Ignoring the characteristics of the F-35, stealth alone have a lot of drawbacks, and counters but just as much many pros and advantages. It all depends on how you deploy and fly the aircraft to maximize those advantages while minimizing the disadvantages.
I'd say cancel the F35-A and C, but keep the B. At the very least, it's a supersonic jump jet for our gator fleet, radar visible or not.
?
Cancel F-35A and F-35C? Lockheed Martin will probably sell over 4000 of them. F-35A cost is now down to 80 million USD. Incredible price for the best all-around fighter on the planet.
Cal Crappie is the best all around fighter on the planet is the typhoon...
Stealth is ineffective unless accompanied with smart jamming. The key issue is noise to signal ratio. The return energy of a radar return burst on a stealth aircraft is in the pico-joule range. However, jamming can send back to the source kilo-joules of energy in response. This noise to signal is in the range of TRILLIONS of times as much energy as the signal of the aircraft. It is nearly impossible to get decent tracking information with such a ratio. While the aircraft will be detected, it cannot be tracked under such circumstance, so it can carry out its mission unimpeded. At least, that is the idea.
s400: f35 is obsolete😍😍😍
im sure a Russian with 20/20 vision can detect it,
might be a little harder for the Chinese... lol
Lol
Sure, there are radars that can detect the Lightning and the Raptor. But in order to do that they have to be focusing on the exact piece of sky that they're in. So if you're not looking exactly in the right place, pretty good chance you'll never see it till it's too late. I've heard lots of reports about F-35's at Red Flag. Just a hand full of them took out dozens of other planes before they even knew they were there. Ground stations may be a bit different because they can use larger antennas/lower frequencies. Airborne radars are mostly restricted to higher frequencies because of the size. Like he said, the lower freq, larger antenna arrays are easily detectable and can be jammed or avoided.
Long answer: No, because they aren't even in service yet. *sigh*
When China has more than one aircraft carrier give us a call
Typical American. Thinks that the USA is invincible....Mmm I wonder why...USA isn't the superpower it once was the soon u work that out the better
@toklaut and another Supersonic anti-ship missiles? You mean like China has finally reached technology from the 60s?
At Red Flag Swedish, French, German and Japanese aircraft have been able to detect the F-35 with little trouble. Pretty sure the Russians and Chinese can do it.
At the recent Trident 21 exercise, the first of the Trident series held outside of the US without USAF & USN ROE restrictions, the Intruder Mk2 (the nickname USN pilots have been disciplined for calling the F-35) was basically defenseless against Italian and German Typhoons unless being escorted by French Rafale. In 2019 at Red Flag Gripens detected and destroyed 2 complete F-35 strike packages without being detected by the F-35s. In 2014 Red Flag French Rafale and Mirage 2000-mk5 used their more advanced data links to form a flying phased array radar with their old PESA systems and ate F-22s lunch.
Its more about tactics & training than equipment.
Yes, with their "radar reflectors" on or in place. They run with them activated in peacetime exercizes so that the F-35s and the other A/C in the excercises have a chance to train together. In a war scenario the radar reflectors are off and they become much harder to detect and track.
What Yemen needs to do is ask for donations so that It can
buy a Russian S-400 anti-aircraft system. Lets get started.
Let them fly over Russian the answer will be clear
russia is one giant slob im suprised they didnt blow themselfs up in the coldwar. oh wait chernobyl did that 🤣
Death Locker yeah like, when they double dare US in Syria and Venezuela😂
@@homgrownbud Chernobyl isn't Russia!
why would they fly to bumfuck village?
The U.S military doesnt incinerate mutants
All F-22 aircraft fly with radar reflectors on the aircraft so that civil air traffic controllers can see them at over 200 miles away. The only time they retract the reflectors and go into stealth mode is when they are flying in a war scenario over restricted areas in the United States, or in real combat.
"Detecting it" is one thing, knowing it's in the area means nothing if you don't know exactly where it is. Also, being able to fire a missile at it, let alone hit it or try to intercept it with another aircraft is another thing entirely.
Active radar missiles are fairly useful in such a scenario. A low freq radar guide it near the target. The missile then goes pitbull and uses a active radar for terminal. Since the missile at this point is much closer, the stealth is almost entirely negated.
Just one method I think can help counter stealth. But of course, stealth is something 'better to have than not have it.' There being counters does not mean it should be ignored.
There's also other methods of countering stealth such as multiple radar sites, which make it hard for a plane to face it's lowest RCS signature to all of the sites.
Stealth and counter-stealth technology is a arms race of its own. I would argue stealth have a slight advantage because it is relatively new and not a lot of nations have a developed infrastructure to counter it. BUT the technology to counter it is there and it exists. It just needs to be applied.
Let them fly deep above Russian airspace, then we will be sure how effective the F-22 and F-35 are
On the other hand .... are easily chopped off into pieces like Khasoggi's body. remember ?
They did, undetected.
Lmao I mean we used to get blackbirds over its edges every now and then and they couldn't catch or shoot it down. So don't be so me so cocky! I wouldn't be surprised if an f35 could embarrass the entire Russian air Force. If you can even call it a "force"... Like 4 operational new su 35s lmao
@@TheNondiscriminatory Sr-71 never penetrate USSR border, every time it came it was intercepted. Russia has over hundred su35.
@@IldarIsm incorrect. You literally were unable to catch it, and it was never intercepted while on mission.
And yes, while you have 100 su35s... Your best and brightest fighter... Maybe on par with an F-15C/D... Of which we have nearly a 400 in service. Complimented by 770 of the most experienced warbirds in the world, the f-16. And then there's the 220 f35s... The 180 f22s... The 700 f18s, the bleeding edge bombers and awacs aircraft that we have by the shitload- all of which are flown by the best pilots in the world- American pilots (more seat time and training= better pilots, and we have the absolute most seat time by FAR). What I'm getting at here is, look. Nobody wants war. But if the US wanted to fly over your airspace, decimate your airforcr and destroy all of your Sam sites, they could do so overnight and there would be NOTHING you could do to stop them.
You can only "tune" an airframe to be "stealthily" at a particular wavelength, so a frequency agile radar would do the trick.
no, that isnt right
If the radar wave emmited is larger than the aircraft, the rcs will be higher, but it would still be much smaller due to RAM coating the plane
but this radar is also much less accurate, and bounces of everything, from chaff to clouds
The 1st stealth bomber used in Iraq war was spotted by the brits constantly.
+Concerned Voter
It was noted be spotted, yes, but not tracked as there was very little data to give to the missile's or other armament's targeting systems.
Nathan Peterson... The brits spotted the plane as they spot any other plane it was only later that they noticed that no plane was registered on this course & speed that they contacted the Americans to ask why they were not registering flight paths. Once they informed the Americans all hell broke loose. How could we have spent so much money on a white elephant etc etc etc. When you spend 25 years building & paying to produce a plane which is not able to be spotted, it can be a tad embarrassing that it was spotted on its first military outing. It was also rumored that the Chinese spotted it, but they refused to comment & continue to refuse to comment
+Concerned Voter
> *_"The brits spotted the plane as they spot any other plane it was only later that they noticed that no plane was registered on this course & speed that they contacted the Americans to ask why they were not registering flight paths."_*
According to whom exactly? I've not even seen media claim this.
> *_"How could we have spent so much money on a white elephant etc etc etc."_*
The F-117A was a 25+ year old aircraft at the time, and the first combat-aircraft to incorporate stealth as its main focus. It was comparitively slow to other fighters, unstable, unmaneuverable, and had no defensive countermeaures. Technology is developing at a quicker rate, and more consideration is needed per aircraft to integrate, implement, and/or exploit those technologies. Hence you see longer development times in modern aircraft like the F-35 J.S.F. and the Su-35 and Su-57.
> *_"When you spend 25 years building & paying to produce a plane which is not able to be spotted, it can be a tad embarrassing that it was spotted on its first military outing."_*
No one, aside from mainstream media outlets, is claiming that stealth equates to "invisibility from all R.A.D.A.R.'s regardless of frequencies". It's a silly hyperbolic notion that has no relevance on the aircraft's capabilities.
Yes,they just found pieces of F35 in the waters of the Pacific!🥊
Lol they did. I feel sorry for the pilot. But I couldn't help but laugh when I heard that one mighty f35 went for a swim in the Pacific.
Now it's one thing to fly in stealth mode if you turn stealth mode on . If a jet is going in enemies tarattories stealth is on if not they have to turn stealth off so that other radars can track them and guide them
My junk have a radar cross section of about one meter. But I'm fine with that.
There is a simple math.. back then 1999 yugoslavia, that f117 was shot down by a sam system years and years old from that plane. even 1960s or 70s sam technology is capable to do that, you can guess how s-300s and s-400s, buks, vityaz and others effective can be against f-35 kinda aircraft.. btw i should remind that, f-35 was officially active in 2017, s-400 was officially active in 2007.. russian s-400s ten years older from that aircaft, and other sam sytems even older but even today you can see how gringos scared that missile systems.. isnt it interesting ?
? The F-117 was shot down because it flew back over the same route every time. They knew where to look and when. Additionally, its bomb door was jammed open increasing its Radar cross section substantially. Finally, the F-117 cannot maneuver and has no ECM capability. SO the Serb's lobbed a bunch of missiles up in the air and one locked and hit. So yeah, you can detect an F-35/F-22if you know exactly WHERE to look WHEN with your low frequency ginormous radar. Problem is, that low frequency radar cannot be used to track an aircraft or guide a missile. You need smaller wavelength radars for that...to which the f-35 and f-22 are VERY difficult to detect. The Serb SAM locked only because of a sufficient radar return due to the door being open. ALL of the occasions F-117s were used over hostile skies and only 1 was ever touched. Hardly evidence that modern SAMs have the edge. but if it helps you sleep at night....
@@mikeck9946 "hardly evidence.." like i said, if that sam radars are so weak against that stealth aircraft, then why US is anxious so much about that ??
about f117, why did they stopped the flights of that aircraft after "just one" loss ? why the us air force didnt continue to use f117, why they ended it ?
lol. Well first, your premise is incorrect. the F-117 WAS used after that Serbian shoot down. It was used multiple times over Baghdad in 2003. But it is not used where it isn't needed and once the air defense has been degraded, I don't need it.Second, the US is NOT anxious about it. That's why the US has spent trillions on the F-22 and F-35...b/c it believes that low observability works. The US doesn't give a crap about large wavelength radars since they are generally immobile, they know where they are and they can be taken out by conventional means (or stealth ) like a Tomahawk. This is because they CANT TARGET ANYTHING. They CANNOT guide a missile. SO you have to know where an aircraft will be, when it will be there and Bam! you can say "I see it!". But the radar does not have a high enough resolution to tell where the aircraft is precisely. Meaning a missile cant "ride the beam: to the aircraft.If Russia and China were so sure it is easy to see and kill stealth, ten why spend billions of their own money developing their own stealth aircraft? The F-22 has a radar cross section the size of a bumble bee. time and time again it has intercepted enemy aircraft without them even knowing it was there. it has operated over Syrian airspace on patrol without any ECM package. Stealth works inasmuch as it lets me get within MY weapons range before you can see me. Doesn't matter then.you can believe whatever propaganda makes you feel better but the U.S. has been in the war business the last 30 years more than anyone else. Do you think the most technologically advanced and most powerful military would spend 40 years and 10's of trillions of dollars developing stealth technology if it "didn't work" and it can be easily detected and downed.in the end, my aircraft only needs to defeat the "kill chain". Your radar must detect me, track me, lock me and a missile must get close enough to lock and kill me. If I can defeat any one of those, I win. So I don't care if you can see me if you cant track or target me. I don't care if you could target me but you cant find me. AND I don't care that any radar will pick me up if im close...because I don't need to get close....just close enough to hit you first.
Looks like my reply was deleted.anyway, the F-117 was NOT stopped after "just one loss". The US DID continue to use it over Iraq in 2003. During the initial stages. They don't anymore because the US has not needed to operate over any IADS that tomahawk missiles couldn't slip through. Second, the US is not "anxious" about large wavelength radars. Just because an "RT" video says they are doesn't mean they are. Those types of radars can only find an aircraft if they know where to look. Once found, those radars do not have the resolution to track and guide in a missile for a kill. The radars that CAN cannot detect the F-22/f-35 until they are well within THEIR weapons range. I don't care if you can see me if I get close. All I need to do is get close ENOUGH to use my weapons. So celebrating the detection of an aircraft on large wavelength or the detection of an F-22 at 10 miles with a Mig 31 is meaningless. One cant kill it and the other is dead long before.
@@mikeck9946 depends on the technology of that counter radar. which they can upgrade for stealth aircraft.
So theoretically a plane could fly at 80,000ft which would be 15 miles above the surface. Which would allow the plane to be unseen as long as the frequency that is being used in the radar isn’t long waves. That’s pretty interesting. Kinda explains how the SR-71 was so stealthy, flying above 80,000ft at over 2,000 mph.
USA should fly near Russia and China to find out!!!!!!
LOL China freaks out whenever US Navy sails between China and Taiwan
They do this all the time. And the Russians fly near us. We even have treaties outright allowing it a few times a year. The real world isn't as interested in going to war as people on TH-cam are. Even in these debates, you'll find most people are really just jet enthusiasts. Most of the folks arguing with each other from across the globe would probably be good friends if they met at a bar in Vegas after watching Red Flag in Nevada and seeing cool planes flying by all day long.
@@weiyang5959 funny thing is China cant fight a war outside of their borders. America can go anywhere in the world and bring the pain to you. You have no chance. Even if you got your communist buddies, Russia, NK, ect. If all of you invaded our East coast, you couldn't get past the mississippi river. Almost every American owns a gun. Good Luck kung foo master
@@danielnee4886 what is near us? Can you tell me location of that near us.
The F35 had a 20:1 kill ratio at red flag went 8-0 in dogfights against the F15 and can engage multiple targets using multiple assets other than it's self. This plane is simply an assassin in the sky. The stealth works for what it's designed to do. If it didn't, Russia , China , India ect would not be pursuing stealth programs of their own. Side note: as of writing this the SU57 program has been cancelled.
Wrong, final testing is conducted as we comment, 10 planes ordered, 2 arriving in 2019. Just check the wikipedia.
The Serbians were able to shoot down F-117 was largely due to human elements than technical feasibility. The flight schedules were so predictable cuz mission planners never bothered to change the routes for every mission. The SAM battalion was so well trained. So they basically focus fire their tracking radar at the same patch of sky every night until one day they were able to gain a strong enough return to launch the missiles. Long story short. It is absolutely possible to detect a stealth plane, but guiding a weapon to shoot it down is extremely difficult. Besides by the time you have strong enough signals, an enemy weapon is most likely on its way to destroy you.
Russia and China couldn’t even detect Robocop walking through their metal detectors
F-35 already flew dozen PLUS times as Israel used F-35 to bombed in Damascus, so Russians applied their SAMs, S-300, S-400, but did not shoot down, plus almost all the time, F-35 never entered Syria, except those F-16s did, but shoot missiles, air 2 ground, from Lebanon sky, but Russians knew F-35 was in Lebanon sky.
The f22 has a radar cross section the size of a marble or smaller, and has the best radar in the world on board. So it can track mobile radar sites, and get with in a few miles of the radar with out detection and deploy an anti radar missile to destroy the radar site.
If stealth didn't work or wasn't worth investing in.... China, Russia, the Eu, Israel, Iran, Brazil, Canada, South America, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Taiwan, Australia, and every other industrialized nation wouldn't be trying to either develop or acquire stealth craft for themselves.
Stealth's effectiveness depends on what performance is forgone. In the case of the F-35, it's a lot. Payload is strongly limited by its overall size and requirement to fly "clean", while its sustained turn rate, climb and acceleration is badly affected by greater drag from deflective angles, less lift from smaller lifting surfaces and greater weight from stealth materials. It's not supposed to dogfight, therefore. But that only makes the first problem - payload - worse. Its systems must reliably find, identify and engage bogeys long-range. But long-range missiles are larger and heavier because they must carry large fuel loads, which further limits their numbers. The F-35 can carry up to four, but only if it carries nothing else. If it is carrying any other weapon, only two. Worse, A2A missiles (AIM-120's) beyond visual range have a kill ratio of about 35%, which means that pilots will have to use two for a better than even chance. There goes the mission, right there.
It's doubtful that engagement of targets of opportunity beyond visual range will be allowed by any rules of engagement short of WW3, anyway. No battlefield is that static. A visual ID will be required - and that's even more necessary because the F-35's systems, fantastically complex as they are, are simply not reliable enough. There's still problems with ghosts, double images and false positives and negatives, and nobody knows how good they'll be at sorting decoys and dummies from the real thing.
Don't get me wrong, stealth has its place. For intrusion missions against static targets, it's a very good thing indeed. But there's no doubt that the Russians at least have mobile radars with long wave lengths, and although the resolution might not be good enough to vector a SAM, they can resolve an air space good enough to send interceptors. Once the F-35 is in the same sky as a dedicated interceptor, all bets are off. It's nothing more than a slower and less well-armed F-16. Which is a truly LOUSY return for what it's cost and how long it's taken.
Canada and turkey have puller over from the JSF F35 and arent a part of the F35 program.
Detect, is far different then track, track is far different then target.
no it's not. russia already has solution to drop stealth aircraft.
by using UHF-VHF radars to detect stealth aircraft.
then using the engagement radar of s-400 just to guide the AA missile toward the stealth aircraft.
then the onboard radar of the missile will be able to detect and lock on stealth aircraft by itself.
both china and Russia already have conducted test on this mater.
go read www.ausairpower.net/
@Blob B that's why S-400 has bunch of patnsiers and other Close air defense systems by it's side. all of those missile will be shut down before they reach the s-400.
and you are forgetting about the electric warfare. Russia has such powerful systems to jam GPS and other tracking systems that those +100 mile ranges won't be accomplish-able.
eddie money aeigis missile dumbfuck en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Ballistic_Missile_Defense_System
Kasra Eskandari A close air Defense system and an S-400 literally have nothing to do with GPS jamming systems. Not only do glide bombs not use GPS systems but they use a datalink to a plane. And since you want to mix in other competitors making it a 2 on one against the F-35 I will do the same. Do you think the B-2/ B-21 won’t be used as a missile truck to overwhelm these systems? But enough of that an F-35 is able to be seen at 40Km back by an S-400. What’s stopping it from just dropping it’s missile there and hiding that missile off radar masking it with the F-35’s stealth? The F-35 wasn’t just meant to plow in and brush by the S-400/500 like it’s nothing. That’s what the F-22 is for which is one of the many reasons we sell the F-35 (with no luck at all 😂)
Kasra Eskandari I am actually not to sure about this but there was Ana trickle of an F-35 flying in Turkey (military occupied area as well)
Armed with S-400’s and it was said to have flew right over with no,problems. Now I’m not just gonna go “AHA! I WAS RIGHT!” Because there’s many factors into play here. The radar could be off or inactive but we give that the benefit of the doubt.
this video is a clear cut above the rest in dealing with F-35 versus S-400 capabilities
Even the Iranian can detect and track them, since around 2010
THAT'S WHY 2 IRANIANS PLANE GOT SURPRISED WHEN 2 F-22 RAPTORS APPEARED BESIDE AND TOLD THEM TO GET OUT OF THE AIR SPACE. I THINK THEY SAW THEM COMING, HAHAHAHA.
@@vanessavillalobos2497 we are talking bout ur shitty f35 dude.
Iran is lucky they can field a biplane with their antiquated junk and their big mouths.
@@chrisdean6700 yeah that is why they landed couple of ur most advanced spy drones
@@Johnny-xi4ti The F-35 is not nearly as stealthy as the F-22. And the drones that were intercepted were not are most advanced muppet. They were the same STOCK drones that bitch slapped Soleimani... Speak the truth 👏 and you will learn more.
The shoot down of the F-117 was NOT because of the long wave radar, it was because the F-117 was IMPROPERLY deployed. Also, your data on RAM is incorrect. RAM CAN absorb energy from radar with a wavelength longer than the coating is thick. OTHERWISE, you couldn't heat up a one inch cube of water in a microwave. DERP!
Funny, and sad. Sad because it shows that the level of physical science taught to 7th graders when I went to school has been wiped from ALL levels unless one goes to college to be an engineer or science major.
The USA is truly f@cked.
@Patrick EH
Oh you and your science. ;) lol
Gotta love when people cannot even comprehend basic logic hey? I bet they also think you need a foot thick wall of lead to stop microwave radiation....hence that massive microwave door. People's comprehension about lightwaves aren't very high.
Nonsense. The F117 was tracked and shot down.
@Pacus123 and how was it tracked down?
Microwave ovens operate at the resonant frequency of the water molecule. Doesn't matter how thick the water is. it absorbs the energy and gets hot. Agree with you that RAM coating does not need to be as thick as the wavelength. Harmonics is the answer. Whatever is doing the energy absorbing is way more efficient at some repeating math unit of the energy wavelength. 1/4 wave antennas are very common. Tune the coating or the molecular bond length to a repeating multiple of the wavelength and it is effective.
Excellent! You might want to do a follow-up on the effectiveness of radars looking up at that flat F-35 belly and ground-to-air missile that are very fast. Use a distant VHF search radar to pinpoint when the F-35 is directly overhead, active the look-up radar, fire those fast missiles, and then bring down the radar. In a few seconds, that F-35 is toast.
you do realise that you need a radar to guide those missiles towards the target? they have their own radar, but that is only for terminal guidance
if you turn of your radar, the missiles will miss
Send one F-35 to fly over Russia and one way or another, this meaningless debate will end
Comparing equipment and debating its capabilities in an important life-and-death scenario isn't a meaningless debate. The premise of "invading" a country with one single plane, however, is meaningless.
The Russian is very interested to shoot down one the f35
ANY ONE CAN DETECT ANYTHING
yeah, at visual range you can see it. at slightly further range you can see it on IR, at somewhat longer range you can see it on longwave radar, and sometimes longer range than that it can be seen at certain angles.
stealth just effectively shrinks detection range, tracking ability, and weapons lock ability, making air defense very difficult, and countermeasures more effective.
I do believe that IRST systems are actually better at detecting an F-35
though, they can detect that some kind of aircraft is 50-70km away, and only if they have their engines turned towards the seeker
@@jurajsintaj6644 Ya, IRST is a huge player. It's weather dependent though, and doesn't have near the range of radar. F-35 has pretty good IR characteristics, and a great 360 deggree IRST system of it's own. So it has an edge. Stealth in general is "somewhat" eroded though by IRST.
Fortunately, the F-35's best features aren't really it's stealth.
F 35: I'm very stealthy
Malaysian Airlines 370: Hold my flight plan
Even this changes allot on short time, today some radars can see these stealth planes from longer distances. And it is several other countries who can see the stealth fighters on both ground radar combined with the plane's itself it's radar. And there is one country who have had long range stealth radars who also has been upgraded since it was finish developed and in service in 2009. Ps, that FA-117 was shoot down on 40km range in the 90's, so that 15km range is BS. Also stealth drones who is claimed to be stealth, how could Iran see and than use electronic warfare to hack the RQ-170? They couldn't just guess that there was a trone there!? And the same happened under a year later with a Scan Eagle drone, saw it on radar, than hack it. And they still hack US drones, and surly also Israeli, but doesn't tell about it. Iran has the world's largest collection of downed stealth drones in 2019, also a lot of non stealth drones. So just try, all the F-35'. F22's and also the B-2 bomber will be shoot down as soon it enter Iranian airspace. And most drones will do suicide as soon they also enter Iranian airspace!
@MyImList Yeah, though apparently it's the CIA that's flying some secret drones over Iran, so it's really hard to know what's going on.
You malasian puppet of china shut up ,you don't know what you are talking about
With measuring the air turbulence you can even detect a pigeon from 100km distance. Radar is not the only way to detect and track aircrafts.
Of course, you do realize that you are contradicting the smartest man in the known universe, Donald Trump. He says the F-35 is invisible.
So you must be wrong.
Mary lockheed told him lies
@Greatmcwhite na by the time its visible it gets shot down.
Well can the USA just fly one F-22 or F-35 over Russia and let’s see the reality of S-400 ?
S400 is more russian junk.
@@JeffSpehar-ov1cn You probably wanted to say "Patriot"
Stealth is not intended to prevent the aircraft invisible, rather when it can be seen. If you can detect an aircraft hundreds of miles out, you can fire on them before they can attack. If you can only see them after they are within their circle of being able to attack, they can shoot and scoot, you will be attacked but it is too late to take them out.
Of course they can detect an F35. The only question, is how far away can they detect it.
Why don't you ask China and Russia for sure? There will be no answer from TH-camrs.
I do not know what exactly was used for first detect of F-117 over Serbia but it was shot down by S-125 Neva system so that mean that system need to see him also (those missiles are semi active)And it was not only few miles from the radar. First contact was about 60km maybe even 70km from the sam. F-117 was on returning route from bombing run.
f35 is midsize attack j20 is heavy fighter if beat the j20 u need f22
I don’t get into the quality and expected performance etc. of the J-20. I think, it is great to see, that China has the guts and the will to develop their very own designs. However there are still a lot of limitations - avionics are known to be not as superior than Russian avionics and by far not as advanced as Western. The issue is, that there is no rationale behind your statement. First of all - what does it even mean: “beat the J20”? Shooting down? Well, the F-35 might be as fast (or might even be faster) than the J-20 (drag is for sure much smaller, the J-20 has old Mig-29 engines)... Do you mean, that the J-20 “beats” the F-35 in weapons load? That make sense - but this detail is meaning less.
I seen an analysis which shows, that the J-20 probably should be an interceptor - and that would make sense. It is far more interesting to see, what the Chinese developing after the J-20. If they come up with improved designs (and further completely new aircrafts) - and if they will learn out of their previous mistakes. And if they will be able to produce their own engines?
Lone Wolf Aniket f18？ j15b is enough🤣
安倍晉三 J10C enough
China patented 800,000 inventions last year, while the US only patented 200,000. They graduate 50 times the engineers as the US does per year and 23% of the engineers the US does graduate are Chinese who have more opportunities returning home. The Chinese own materials research, supercomputing and robotics.Why are you so ignorant to assume that other countries are so backward. Much of China is much more modern than the US which has not invested in infrastructure for 40 years, has no high-speed rail(China is #1 of course and even Africa has more high-speed rail than all of North America), it has a larger middle class, far more outgoing tourism etc. Heck, China has more English speakers than the US, your ignorant racism is showing. Get used to being a second-class country with a dying middle class and impoverished working class. 100 countries now have a higher qualit of life than the US for the average person.
S400 vs F35 , Let them fly close to Russian borders and we will a n answer.
dont need to us well send f117 in and target bomb pin point radar locations then send in the heavys 😉
maybe you should read up on plasma stealth. cmon now russia aint got shit on north america
Who says they haven't?
The other important part to the stealth fighter lost to the Serbs is that it flew the same path every night. They knew where to look for it and were able to find it.
i think s-500 can detect it,i sure to god,american weapon is sooo expensive,thats all.
Obvious answer yes, why else would turkey choose the S400 over the F-35...lol
To buddy up to Putin because the USA would NOT kiss his ass for him.
The best reason, is Turkey feels its biggest threat is from the air. And the best way to protect your airspace is with an air defense system.
It's not the f35's design to be an interceptor.
Well its cheaper and stealthy wont work against Israel since they already have f35 im sure they also figured out how to counter its stealth capabilities..
I read last year in Science magazine, that the Chinese also have come up with a jamming technology that once the stealth plane has been detected, it can scramble it's signal, and would not be able to be controlled by the pilot or autopilot and would then be able to be shot down.
About China don't know bcz they are made in China 😂..
But for Russia 200% YES...
F35 biggest joke jet and price 😂 😂 😂 🐷 🐷and slow and shot flying 😂😂🐷
Accept with a full combat load it can super cruise at mach 1.5 while most other gen 4 although faster, cant super cruise with a full combat load at higher than mach 1.3
@@jakemuro3732 😂not true only 1.1 👎😅🐖
you dont know what you are talking about, you know nothing about the F35 capabilities, your chinese and russian fighter jets are junk, and that is not even taking into account the F22 Raptor, you will not even know what hit you, only hope to be incinerated quickly
@@Tux0xFF 😅F35 is🐖💩only Mark 1.1 slow short 1100 miles is junk and price 😂 joke F16 faster and longer miles F35 🐖🐖🐷💩👎🤮😝 Russia bomber tu160 mark 2 and 10000 miles F35 is joke 🤣 😅 😅 😅 😅
Says the real piggy who will never even see one.
Even though stealth technology doesn't propose total invisibility, it makes detecting of the plane quiet pointless, because when the radar localize the plane they run out of time for preventing attack
Years ago, the US flew the U2 over Russia and Russia finally managed to shoot one of them down. Remember Gary Powers? At first my lying government denied they had a U2 plane and of course that was just for their own citizens consumption. But lo and behold, the damn pilot was still alive! So they changed their story! Then they made a stealth plane called the SR71 and constantly flew that over Russia until Russia made missiles and radar that could destroy it. Then they started using satellites. Now my government has made many other stealth planes, B1, f117, f22 and f35 and etc. Russia does not have any stealth planes. My government has destroyed many many many countries by both bribing and by bombs. My government has many bases in other countries, maybe as many as 400. My government fully supports both Israel and Saudi Arabia, the two worst countries on the planet. My government is the only country to needlessly use an atomic bomb and was the first country to make such a thing. My government killed almost 3 million people in another country, Vietnam, that had never harmed them and I saw that massacre up close and personal. We even took babies into a ditch and shot them in the head and what our brave soldiers did to their mothers is the stuff of nightmares! (Calley and his bunch) But there was a constant Mai Lai. Thank you America! You gonna save the planet! Yessiree! I wish I could pay for my medicine. Oh well, I am just a 72 year old! What do I know.
Israel is one of the two worst countries on earth? Not those shit bag countries all around it, but the one tolerant, democratic, multi cultural one? Hmmmmm. I don't think so. I don't remember Israel throwing homosexuals off of roof tops, I don't remember Israel stoning women or refusing to allow them to drive or basic rights. Doesn't Israels political system have Muslims in power? Show me the Muslim nation with any Jew in political power.
Oh and Ron, if it wasn't pointed out to you before, you can travel freely in America, feel free to leave.
Yes, tell the Russians "why yes good sir I was sending spy planes into your territory breaking international agreements, do you have any issues good sir?" And yes tell the Japanese "Why yes good sir I would end the war here and now with some quick bombings to scare your pants off but no, I'm going to conduct a brutal land invasion from the South and our pals the soviets from the north sound good sounds good. Oh prepare your asses too, the soviets are known for raping who they invade. Don't worry, the millions of avoidable deaths are worth it because we didn't use a big scary nuke."