Speaking of God, We Don't Know Sh*t" (with ex-pastor D.B. Ramsey)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
- D.B. Ramsey was theologically trained and spent many years preaching Christianity. Today, he's an agnostic, directly challenging the faith he once held dear.
www.dbramsey.com
“The road to atheism is paved with well-read Bibles.”
Or with finally read bibles. Every pastor’s job is to glaze over the evil and double down on the recruitment and fundraising regardless of the consequences.
I agree. My desire to find the truth about God, led me to know he doesn't exist.
The road to Anti theism is paved in the blood and fence pails and fence sitting pascal`s atheist`s ( Patheist`s),
To me an atheist is a coward
@@ossiedunstan4419 to me a theist is an idiot. If you ever studied what you professed, you couldn't believe it .
@@ossiedunstan4419 funny, what is simpler, the extraordinarily complex and random process of natural selection or the infinitely evil and unpredictable nature of your god? Of course, I’m only talking about the big ‘g’ for the big 3.
I have not 'lost' the Christian faith. I grew up, stepped over it and put it behind me.
Exactly. You know where it is ....LoL
What a shame that for being honest with himself and being who he is, he lost his 30-year marriage. This is what religion does. She chose her imaginary god over the flesh and blood person who had dedicated his entire life to her. The father of her children. Think about that.
@@perryegolson833 Very sad indeed!
Yes! I like to say after decades of sitting on the fence, that I reasoned through it. It really chaps my ass when someone says I "Lost" my faith.
Same here.
I like George Carlin's comment - "I was a Catholic until I reached the age of reason."
I like Christ Jesus' words better; "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"
Unbelievers/Atheists only offer death, Jesus Christ/God offers life (eternal life - to know him).
@@paulgemme6056 And you have evidence of this of course? Not believing in a fairy tale story of magical eternal life (human arrogance), informs you that you should cherish and make the best of the one life you actually have on this earth. You need to make it count and not waste it acting as if it’s just some silly test of belief leading to another eternal life which is unproven and unverifiable, a claim made by billions over time, of which you disagree with most. Think about that.
Catholic is one thing, being a believer in the person of Jesus is another.
@@paulgemme6056, Some people walk away from Christianity due to ignorance and misunderstandings. A wrong understanding of Christianity can make someone reject christianity without really knowing that what they are rejecting is false doctrine or ideas because if they really understood christianity, they would never walk away from it.
@@fcastellanos57 Amen !! Peace be with you!! Jesus is the King of Glory!! We are going home soon.
There's no type of people I appreciate more than ex pastor atheists. They are a special kind of weapon in the collective atheist arsenal, so to speak. And we need them now more than ever before. Thank you, Seth, for introducing me to this guy. Cheers, everyone.
I agree with you 💯
I just love listening to them speak..we need them more than any other group of people👍
If JESUS WANTS NON-BELIEVERS TO BURN AN ETERNITY IN HELL, HOW CAN HE BE GOOD? He's NOT. he's imaginary and obnoxious and deserves hell if there was one. he liked slavery made no predictions that were true, and knew nothing of science. Nothing any smart man of the time didn't know. I have never seen a scientist lose a debate on god. You're messed up. You are lacking knowledge. Sorry to be rude, but then you think I am going to HELL> right?
Agreed! I will buy the book and read it, so that I can recommend it to others who are experiencing such doubts. It's important for those with doubt or non-belief to know that they are not alone and that there is a way out. It won't happen in my life time, but I envision a world someday, when every human being can live in reality and know how to evaluate truth.
"Atheism is a disease of the soul, before it becomes and error of understanding." Plato
"Atheism is a disease of the soul, before it becomes an error of understanding." Plato
DB Ramsey is an exceptional man. I admire his honesty and intellect.
I admire his fashion. That jacket is kicking
It gives me some hope for humanity that intelligent people like Seth and Dave exist and that they are able to have a voice.
@@TheTruthKiwi The truth sets us free. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life.
@@paulgemme6056 How do you know that any supernatural claims made in the bible are true?
Don't you think it is strange that pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins? It seems like it's human nature to make stuff up when we don't have all the facts. How do you know that christianity is any different?
@@paulgemme6056 you should really look into that
37:30 I say “…. when I shook off the shackles of my childhood indoctrination and opened my eyes to reality it was the most liberating experience of my entire life…” ❤️
Like a weight being lifted off my shoulders.
Wonderfully honest and insightful man. A joy to listen to.
There is only one who offers and can give life, eternal life (to know him). God/Jesus Christ. The Creator/Maker of heaven and earth.
@@paulgemme6056
Get lost, fan girl.
@@paulgemme6056
Everyone is born atheist.
Religion has to be taught.
Atheism doesn't have to be taught.
@@dianahill5116 Everyone is born an atheist is a correct statement because everyone is born a sinner. We don't have to teach our child how to sin (lie, cheat, steal. etc.). We have to teach them how not to sin (do wrong). We have to teach atheists the truth that we are all depraved of spiritual life. Jesus/God offers the gift of life (spiritual life). All one has to do is believe that they have this sinful condition (from birth) and ask God/Christ Jesus for the free gift of forgiveness/pardon. We are forgiven because of what Christ did for us on the cross. Atheists can only offer death. I'll take God's offer. Thank you, but no thanks.
@@paulgemme6056
Thankfully, it's not unconstitutional, unlawful, rude or unethical to not obey, enroll, teach, learn, participate, support, promote or fund a religion.
Regardless of the religion.
Dave B. Ramsey was a friend of mine. Tragically, he passed away a few weeks ago. All who knew him are saddened by the loss of this fine man.
Shit, I’m sorry to hear he’s gone. We lost a very insightful and well intentioned man. Thank you for letting us know.
I paused this video and looked Mr. Ramsey up only to discover, sadly, that he had passed. A remarkable human being, to have the bravery and intellectual integrity that is required to arrive at the conclusion he did and to embrace it openly after the life he led. RIP good sir.
It would be so easy, for a man in his position, to continue preaching, but to take tbe hard road and say no..... this guy had a big pair of bollocks!!! I wish I had known him too 👍🏻
WTF, rip
Huge loss for the rational world.
In my opinion, those of us that have left the faith of Christianity (or any religion for that matter) were;1. The most sincere, 2. Held on until we couldn't anymore, 3. Actually studied the bible, and 4. are the most intelligent critical thinker! Absolutely Amazing Video !!!!
Certainly not the most intelligent thinker.
True. I was with the exception of 4. Listed. Lol
@@jesussriqueunlike those who believe in invisible sky daddies who are obviously really smart.
@@jesussrique I absolutely disagree with you. The vast majority of religious adults were indoctrinated into religion beginning when they were very young children. It takes intelligent critical thinking to be able to put aside all of that indoctrination, and truly examine what you were taught, and determine if it actually makes sense. I'm in my 60s now. I was indoctrinated beginning when I was an infant. From the time I was born until I left home at 18, I never missed a single Sunday at church except when I was really ill. I was put into a Sunday school class as soon as I turned 3. I also went to a week of Vacation Bible school every summer, and performed in plays and have recitations every Christmas. I also had to attend many months of Confirmation classes, and was drafted to help teach Sunday school and Vacation Bible school. All of the other kids I went to church with, as well as all of the other kids in my family, just accepted all of the BS they kept shoveling our way. I was the only one who was a young person was asking the hard questions, reading the Bible on my own - not just memorizing the verses they assigned us to memorize, and analyzing the horrors in the Bible, and the evil of the so called perfect "God". By the time I was 14 or so, I'd figured out on my own that the Bible stories were crap, and the God of the Bible was a monster. Meanwhile, all around me, every other person in my family, my church, and my school (at least as fast as I knew) kept believing, without challenging a thing. One of the happiest days of my life was when I blew out of that one horse town with my National Merit scholarship in hand, and headed off to college. On the rate occasions I go back there, most of my classmates are still there, and most of them don't seem to have every seriously looked at their religious beliefs. They are still attending the same churches their parents attended.
@@greeneyedlady5580 Your disagreement with me is what makes you wrong. You see, the scientific critical thinking process has caused your brain to rewired, and that becomes your problem spiritually. And because of that, you're going to need an expert who can get you wired back again.
Former pastor here. No longer religious. Thanks for the great interview.
U r free. No more church judging. No more depression not measuring up. You can dress not to impress but to express for the first time free will by freeing your mind. Albert Einstein said God is nature.
You might say you are free but I know more about how you feel, think, and believe than you do and it’s a false feeling of peace you have. 😂🤣🤣
But you can’t say that about me because my truth and peace are real not fake. 🤣🤣
I think these stories are much more effective than debates.
Debates are important to better understand someone’s point of view.
@@2l84me8 Thats what they are supposed to do but I find many debates are not honest. While I love Hitchens, there are a number of times he doesnt answer the questions he is asked during a debate. It certainly can establish the points of view. I guess the hard was understanding that they are not really trying to change each others points of view, they are trying to get the audience to question theirs.
@17:00
_”If the New Testament were a term paper, it would earn a failing grade because it’s self-referential.”_
Excellent articulation, I’ll remember that one. Thanks for sharing.
I went from Southern to Cooperative Baptist to Atheist, seems like a natural progression, although that would be offensive to the cooperatives. Thankfully my wife was waiting for me to grow up and out of my faith but she had no idea what level of deconstruction I needed. She supported me every step of the way. Breaks my heart to know some marriages don't survive.
Excellent, excellent presentation.
Listening to y'all converse after hearing religious folks, is like walking out of a hot, day-old, filled up porta-potty and filling ones nostrils with fresh mountain air and feeling a cool breeze blowing away all the sh-t around oneself, living down here in the south.
Back to reality. :)
I also grew up in the Deep South and the people there will lie to you and alienate you if they think you are seeing the truth about christianity.
Earth is not the center of the universe and the world is much more older than 6,000 years. Bible is a mixture of Jesus's words, with many pagan myths and corrupted stories of the old testament. But there were thousands of earlier messages from God to earth and their is a final truthful book from God. So, if you happen to stumble upon a corrupted book (corrupted by the pagan/atheist Romans anyway), there is the uncorrupted final message.
@@mazen1010 If your omnipotent, omnipresent, all loving, all caring god actually exists then why the fuck are his ONLY messages to us on old corrupted, misinterpreted, mistranslated papyrus scribblings from tens of centuries ago?
Pretty much every isolated civilisation on earth has made up its own myths and legends regarding origins, it is human nature to make shit up when we don't have all the facts and christianity is no different.
Out of the nearly 8 billion people on this planet and the millions that have been before NOT ONE PERSON knows exactly what existed or occurred prior to the Big Bang or the Planck Epoch to be more specific. If anyone claims that they do know then they are deluded or are being dishonest, probably both.
In saying that, it is almost infinitely more LIKELY that the universe and life originated naturally and wasn't poofed into existence by some omnipotent entity from another dimension.
We know that humans are capable of making up stories and we know that other humans are capable of believing them. Natural origins are the most reasonable, rational and is the default position.
You are most likely to be deluded my friend. Nothing supernatural has ever been shown or proven to exist whatsoever and I'm sorry but we are most likely not immortal.
@@TheTruthKiwi My dear friend,
You have built your story based on a presumption that there is no designer, manufacturer and controller for everything starting from time, space, matter, energy, fields, waves, subatomic particles with all their assemblies and interactions, which makes us and our preprogramed brains.
However, if you started the story from the real beginning that is our brain and all the living cells that are made from dead and helpless atoms but are controlled to work like tiny atomic robots. Then you will see that we are all just puppets animated to tell stories. The matrix movies have pictured this in a nice way as our brains cannot tell what reality from the programmed simulation is. But they made machines as gods who have exchanged role with their original human programmers.
So, I can only tell you that God is the one who plotted all our stories (including this discussion between us) and he has made us to feel a simulated free choice. Part of our story is the messy self-destructing feature that God has built in humans that causes them to rebel against anything that bonds them let it be good or bad, right, or wrong. It is a tool that causes human history to go in circles with self-extermination episodes (e.g., monkeys of hell tribal wars).
It was wishful thinking to claim that people can constantly build up knowledge and learn from their past mistakes, but even our genetics go in circles and make every human clan go through cycles of boom and bust. Otherwise, we would have ultra-human breeds of imperial clans.
However, for this grand musical-chairs game to produce continuous batches of good and evil people throughout history and geography, the game must be reset to initial values after certain number of cycles. But unfortunately, some monkey brained people will resist this process of restoration and upgrades, as they made profitable networks and power structures out of the corrupted cycles. That is why God's prophets were killed, and many others were outcast to stop them from reforming.
Still, God wants the good people to try, show genuine mercy and care for everyone, so for their hard work will be greatly rewarded. God is infinite and he creates thing from nothing, for him, he can reward by giving full galaxies for one worthy person. For that, seeking the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth becomes half of the hard work, and practicing the truth in the face of self and external evils is the second half.
May peace be upon you
No hate like Christian love!!
True!
Agree! I have a family member who is a Fundamentalist Presbyterian and because other family members refused to join her church she has pretty much severed her relationship with us. She has gone so far as to scream at me that I am a drug addict and an alcoholic, neither of which is true. She really believes I'm evil. She's even threatened to call the police if I step on her property. There is no hate like Christian love!
Having experienced it I would agree.
What a lovely, worthwhile conversation. I don't have some pithy remark... I just want to point out how good and healthy this was. Thank you both. 🍻
Real damaging to lost soul. It will just lead the lost soul further down the road of deception. Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Jesus Christ is the truth and can never lie. God Jesus Christ offers life (eternal life - to know him). Atheists can only offer death. We choose (free will). Life or death.
@@paulgemme6056 If only the current leaders in the faith showed actual/real leadership by calling out the power grabs that are happening NOW. The most dangerous thing today - which are contributing to the LOST in the greatest degree possible are the leadership of today - this is where the real danger is - and where satan is most active and successful - today. Satans biggest weapon against real faith today is djt. THIS IS WHERE DEATH IS...
@@danherrick5785 Yes, the church, the bride of Christ, the body of Christ is hurting but all the gates of hell shall not prevail.
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
John 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
@@paulgemme6056 Amen.
@@paulgemme6056 Atheists offer nothing. It's you guys who have the expectations and are constantly disappointed. You won't have free will until you take the red pill.
This is fantastic! I grew up in the IFB religion. I was heavily involved in church work since I was 12. I have been deconstructing my faith for the past 10 yrs. It's a lonely road. I've had no one to turn to for support so I want to thank you for posting these types of discussions. They're encouraging.
Look for the recovering from religion group. They have lots of resources for people like you!
I understand what you are going through. I had to go through methodist and catholicism deconstruction.
Beckoning Cat atheism is a "non belief", leading to an extremely broad spectrum of individuals. Not everyone (e.g. me) is "active" or wants to "convert" religious folk, as these two do, and hats off to them.
Many atheists, me included, just don't care about religious beliefs, so long as it does not go to extemism. But that (extremism) applies to other spheres, e.g. politics, society, etc.
Atheists have not found anything. God is turning out their light. God disposes of people as he pleases, openly acknowledged unbelief is death. Same old story of formerly "devout" nothings.
@@timothykeith1367 shakes you a little, huh?
How inconvenient for you to use your mind.
My take on god is that toxic friend who does horrible things, blames you for it, and makes you feel guilty.
Not to mention taking credit for all the good accomplishments while gaslighting or deflecting for the bad.
And then punishing you for eternity because of it.
And then punishing you for eternity because of it.
He is that toxic friend who manipulates you and others to do things. Stands back and watches the manipulated get blamed and punished and then says only (he disguised as) his son can save you from the trouble
As a child preacher, back in the 1960's, in East Texas, through the angst of alternative or heathen "religions", to atheist now, thank You for this.
I'm also in east Texas.. Hard to explain to people how religious people are around here lol just the absolute bat shittery
You were never a true child, that's why you left (the childhood). 😉
Never had a childhood.
Sorry to hear it. Being a child preacher means you were even more psychologically abused than the average child brought up on religion. I hope you have found peace in your adulthood.
@@Dodgerzden I'm working on it. Becoming more atheistically militant, by the day. Both Mother and Father were abusive. I've been asked to record My story, and as soon as I get a studio set up, I will blog about the hellishness I survived.
Funny how everything makes sense when you live in reality…. Keep spreading the good word Seth
Our reality is their lies, twisted 45
Amen! 😆👍🏽
@Brandon Letzco It does a lot better than the story of Noah.
It also allows you to be honest and say "I don't know" when you don't know. Rather than needing to have an answer to every question pulled from an old book.
D.B. Ramsey nailed it: what stings the most after leaving faith behind is the accusation that you were never a "true Christian." I heard that from my own siblings when I left. I guess that old tribalism kicks in to protect themselves from asking any hard questions like, "why?"
All religions have built-in self-defense mechanisms to counter any kind of attack, even if it makes no sense. I imagine anyone who leaves Islam hears the same thing that they were never really Muslim. The ultimate religious counter to any criticism that works for the non-critical thinking mind is the famous, "God works in mysterious ways". That is a checkmate in their minds.
The Never a True Scotsman square on the religitard bingo card
I somewhat had an opposite thing
I'm German, never was a believer. My sister spent a few years in the US and when she came back a few years later she was a baptist.
Decades later she found out her baptist preacher in Germany was basically fleecing them.
And a few years ago she dropped the "Evolution is just a theory" on me. I looked at her and asked "What the fuck are you even talking about?" She had a similar education as me, but as I had to realize then, you can get indoctrinated as a grown up.
What helps me with that is the understanding this is primarily based in the fear that it could happen to them. Especially if you are still a 'good, upstanding person' in their eyes - it's frightening to them.
@@bladerunner3314 It always makes me think of Tim Minchin. “Maybe she’ll feel the same about gravity… and float the fuck away!”
The honesty and authenticity on display in this conversation was a refreshing change from the rotting tripe one often hears these days from the other quarters of evangelicals and Trumplicans…
Former Christians, or other religious people, who have made it through de-conversion are always the best at articulating the illogical aspects of faith. As Matt D says, "Faith is the excuse people give when they have no evidence for their belief". Seth and Dave are, obviously, highly intelligent people. They were 'victims' of indoctrination.
Nope,FAITH brings forth the evidence of their belief. Think on that for a while. I've seen it over and over again God confirming His Word as I and others put our trust and faith in HIM. There's a huge difference between man's dead religion and a living relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.
@@nicknchrist You have a living relationship with an invisible man? Does he come over and eat supper, play cards drink beer and use your bathroom?
@@nicknchrist if i hear "it's not a religion, it's a relationship with Christ" again i think i'm going to throw up. Do you worship a god? Are there certain doctrines that say what this god wants you to do and not do? Do you get your information about this god from a holy book? If the answer to any or all of these answers is yes, then i've got news for you, you have a religion. And before you say 'i don't worship a god, i worship God, first do a little background reading on the origins of yahweh and his worship by the hebrew people (yes, including jesus). This was a god invented by and for a specific people, not all people. And jesus supposedly came to be the messiah for those specific people, not all people.
@@nicknchrist Stop embarrassing yourself.
@@nicknchrist
It's not a religion, it's a long distance, one-way relationship. 😏
I didn’t lose my faith as a child, I simply never believed the tall tales I was hearing. I call it a ‘premature onset of critical thinking’.
Same here. I can honestly say that even as a child I never had religious beliefs. Life is so much greater and more fullfilling without religious dogma leading you away from evidence based reality.
Me too. I was a closet atheist at a very early age till I
Couldn’t take the lying to children any more.
I was raised in the Catholic school system. I asked my 7th grade teacher why we think we’re right? What about Hindus, Buddhists etc. She told me that I was too smart for my own good 👍🏽
@@nursekathy4480 : Yes, always question everything!
I was reading through the gospels after prayerfully making my way through the OT. I must have been 14/15 at the time. I was so happy for the red letter Bible because it let me focus on Jesus’ words. I wanted to internalize all the details of gods ministry and his crucifixion, but I just couldn’t make my way through all of 4 relatively short books because I kept running into new facts that contradicted prior facts I’d just internalized moments ago. John was my favorite book, but it seemed so “Alien” after reading Matthew, Mark, and Luke in sequence. I held on for a while longer because it was a really painful thing to digest and divest from. So yeah when people told me I was never a Christian, it did make me boiling hot with anger. It’s such a low blow. It took many years to overcome the loss and sadness.
Just brainstorming on alternatives to saying "I lost my faith".
"I outgrew my faith."
"I put aside my faith."
"I saw through my faith."
"I jettisoned the baggage that was my faith."
"Faith lost its meaning for me."
"I stopped basing my life on faith."
"I exchanged faith for reality."
Well, that's what's come to my mind right now!
That sounds like a logical progression of how people escape theism when you arrange them like that
@@vincemcmahonreadskoran3120 Oh, I see what you mean, even if I didn't mean it to come out like that!
"Faith never took hold".
I grew up.
The Center for Inquiry (CFI) uses the phrase, "left behind," a great twist and dig on the "Left Behind" series by Tim LaHaye. It's the title of ther book, The Faith I Left Behind.
Ex pastors, even they realize there had come a time when they could no longer stomach the BS they were spewing out to their congregation.
My experience is most are not spewing; they really believe it. While it becomes more and more likely both politicians and members of the clergy are dishonest as you go up the ranks, many locals are doing their best; they are just wrong, and to be pitied, not vilified like the liars.
Any man wearing his pinks sports jacket is a little confused I suggest you go back to Creation where there was a great designer and builder and along your journey you might want to find a new sports jacket
Ironically I saw an old Fransican priest at a funeral who taught me catechism and religious classes 45 years ago. He was one of those former hippe's who became a priest. I was always the kid who questioned what we were being taught and he alway unwired my questions. He said he knew I would leave the church and said "You probably live a more Chris- like life than most of the people I went to school with who stayed in the Faith. He was the one who answered my question "If you are a good person but not Catholic or an atheist would God let you into Heaven?" with "Yes. Being a good person matters to God.'
I wish D.B. Cooper, I mean D.B. Ramsey was my dad... This was a great learning experience and VERY ENLIGHTENING. Thank you!
That's so nice wishing he was yr dad
Whats wrong with your dad?
The fact that I went to a SBC church and I discovered the slavery connection to SBC then I see what became of my former minister named Mike Huckabee. Why wouldn't I become an athiest.
Wait what happened to him?
@@thedragonofechigo7878 I can't tell if you are being sarcastic.
@@BAYBAY_316 I'm not being sarcastic - and I would like to know - other than him making money on his new show - I assume it's a fox news show...
@@danherrick5785 was there a question in there?
@@BAYBAY_316 I guess not...
An ex-pastor is the best pastor.
My daughter's name is Aria! Love it! Also totally agree
@@seionne85 She has an awesome name 😊
Spot on Pal! U.K.Dave.
An ex- pastor who turns away from religion may now someday come to know the truth. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life. No religion needed. Just faith, faith plus nothing. Jesus Christ called the religious Pharisees in his day, hypocrites, snakes and whitewashed tombs because they were just religious (never had faith). they never truly believed that Jesus is/was the Messiah, Savior, Son of God. Jesus said they would die in their sins because of unbelief. Eternal suffering. Not because of sin, but because of unbelief.
i can see that murder and kidnapping are very bad things, but i have problems understanding why unbelief deserve punishment
"His holiness" hehe shucks
It's refreshing to watch and listen to ex-Pastors' 👍🏼💙
They're often a charismatic bunch😅
Yes the invisible sky wizard is a genocidal psychopath. Without a doubt the most unpleasant character in all the fiction.
He certainly hates women.
Indeed.
*This website is designed to spread the vicious truth about the Bible. For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called God of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.* I have included references to the Biblical passages, so grab your Bible and follow along.
*It always amazes me how many times this God orders the killing of innocent people even after the Ten Commandments said Thou shall not kill.* For example, God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).
God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3). He orders another attack and the killing of all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses (Joshua 6). In Judges 21 He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead, except for the virgin girls who were taken to be forcibly raped and married. When they wanted more virgins, God told them to hide alongside the road and when they saw a girl they liked, kidnap her and forcibly rape her and make her your wife!
*Just about every other page in the Old Testament has God killing somebody!* In 2 Kings 10:18-27, God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church! In total God kills 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered
The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 & Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9). ***This type of criminal behavior should shock any moral person.***
***Murder, rape, pillage, plunder, slavery, and child abuse can not be justified by saying that some god says it’s OK.*** If more people would actually sit down and read the Bible there would be a lot more atheists like myself. *Jesus also promoted the idea that all men should castrate themselves to go to heaven:* For there are eunuchs, that were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs, that were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs, that made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it (Matthew 19:12). *I don’t know why anyone would follow the teachings of someone who literally tells all men to cut off their privates.*
The God of the Bible also was a big fan of ritual human sacrifice and animal sacrifice.
*And just in case you are thinking that the evil and immoral laws of the Old Testament are no longer in effect, perhaps you should read where Jesus makes it perfectly clear:* It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid (Luke 16:17). There are many more quotes on this topic at my Do Not Ignore the Old Testament web page.
*If you follow the links on this site you will learn about all the nasty things in the Bible that are usually not talked about by priests and preachers.*
www.evilbible.com/
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In addition, look up the below articles.
*"10 Biblical Atrocities That Go Overlooked (Part 1) - Real Bible Stories"*
(Written by a former minister)
*"10 Biblical Atrocities That Go Overlooked (Part Two) - Real Bible Stories"*
(Written by a former minister)
*"The Will of God - The Christian Delusion"*
*"The 10 Worst Old Testament Verses by Dan Barker - Freedom From Religion Foundation"*
(Written by a former preacher)
*"Top 20 Evil Bible Stories - Religion - Nigeria"*
*"God is the Source of Morality. (Not.) | atheologica"*
*"Is God Necessary for Morality? | atheologica"*
*"What Would Jesus Do? - Evil Bible .com"*
*"Why Jesus? Nontract (August 1999) - Freedom From Religion Foundation"*
You have definitely not heard about Dolores Umbridge
Wizards are usually found in witchcraft not in the bible. In the bible GOD warns us against wizardry. I know you're purposely mocking and condescending towards GOD and those who believe in Him but trying to associate that with God is irrational.
@@nicknchrist Not really irrational if the goal is to trigger a reaction. Also, the Bible is full of random magical occurrences, the only difference is that it claims the cause is divine
This is so good, thank you Seth for posting this!
I was told by a Christian that I had no "right or authority" to interpret the Bible unless I was an "insider". Only those who have Christ in them can interpret the Bible...WTH??
How then could anyone come to know Christ through the word lol not jobs and only want their own interpretation
What authority verifies that you have Christ inside yourself? It's just a self-proclamation. It's a huge scam. You don't have to work towards that or earn it or even prove it. You just have to declare it.
ok, tell them to shut up when they say something about science - as a believer they're outsiders
@@bladerunner3314 Touche'
Which is something that shouldn't be applied to anything else. It's literally saying: "You have to believe first without proof so you can then see the proof"
Leaving ministry was easy for me since I still had a full time job. And I left before I was so tied up with it that it would be hard to leave. But it was still hard. I can’t imagine leaving when that’s all you know and you have to support your family.
@messenger ministries 😆😆😆
Thanks Seth Another great video. I was a worship leader for just under 40 years ( a couple of years off and on) and then decided to find out for myself why no one is ever healed after the hundreds of prayer sessions I was exposed to. That investigation that took 2 years and resulted in me deconverting . What a wonderful experience it has been. Thanks for all your input.
My teacher when I was a teen was W.A. Criswell in Dallas...he also baptized me. He was a very early mixer of religion and politics, and I'm still waiting for the Vatican to relocate to Washington.
The US Supreme Court is basically the Vatican now.
Same here Seth!!! Listening to former pastors is a favorite. Dan Barker was my foot in the door and I love them all!
That video of Dan Barker where he destroys that young guy in a debate is so good.
You can literally see the guy crumbling, I actually felt a bit sorry for him.
D.B. (Dave) Ramsey really knows his stuff and this will make him hard to debate. His knowledge of the Bible is excellent and his dedication to telling the truth is exemplary. I need to tell folks here that the first and foremost thing we need to do is to learn where religions came from, and I mean all religions, came from so we can understand why humans are so easily taken in by any religion, and a good place to start is the book (Ancient Gods, Modern Sects) 2020 by Alexander Campbell Ingersoll Jr. excellent references!
Thank you both for this very interesting and helpful dialog.
I'm so glad I never grew within the ranks of my family's religious organization. When I left, I felt safer and not too much involved. I can't begin to understand how it feels for people who are in a position of enticing others to come in and stay. Great interview.
I'm glad you got out and you probably are safer.
"God always has a plan."
"Yes, I know, but why does everybody assume it's a good one?" - Lucifer
"Loosing faith" AKA: Regaining sanity.
Dan Barker who started the freedom from religion foundation helps guys like this gentleman. He was a minister for over 20 years. And wrote a book as well
I love Dan Barker. Also read his book. He has a nice CD out, called Friendly Neighborhood Atheist. Great piano music and songs.
@@doneestoner9945 that's cool! Dan's a great guy! I love these clergy guys turned Atheist. They know the Bible better than most other people. They have some great counters to all the bullshit because they know all the verses by heart
All pastors are false when they are in the church. True ones are anointed by God himself.
@@theartzscientist8012 so God comes down and anoints them Ok
@@kennethjenkins1094 God didn’t come from heaven. Jesus isn’t God. Jesus has a God. Jesus didn’t speak of himself. John 17:3
I just wanted to thank you and your guest for your stories. I did not grow in a Baptist milieu. I went to Catholic schools, like most French Quebeckers around my age. However my home was not religious. By the time my twin and I were born, my mother had left the Church. My father took us to church on Sundays till I was twelve or so. By then it was apparent that none of my siblings or I wanted to go and my father wasn't that invested in it either. Years later, my alcoholism and drug dependency led me to a Twelve Step Program. Though I was quite agnostic in the beginning, I wound up believing in some Higher Power. I wound up becoming a Quaker as this faith spoke to me in a way that no traditional Church could. Certainly not the Roman Catholic Church. I didn't really consider myself to be Christian. And reading the Bible, especially the Gospel of John, convinced me that I couldn't be a Christian. When I was a child I was told only Catholics would go to Heaven. That never made sense to me. Why would a loving God put all these different people on this Earth only to deny the majority an eternity in Heaven. And of course, later on, the concept of eternal punishment in Hell made no sense to me either. So when I read in the Gospel attributed to John that Jesus said that only through Him could one reach the Father, this seemed more something a man would say, not the Son of an all loving deity.
Anyway, during my thirty plus years of going to recovery meetings, and staying sober, I kept hearing things that made less and less sense to me. Things like: "God never gives you more than you handle." Well, in 2004, a tsunami proved to too much for a quarter million people to handle (they died). "Everything happens for a reason." Well yes, things are usually caused by one or many reasons. But usually this statement is implying that either some lesson needs to be learned or that it's all part of God's master plan. The trouble was that this seemed to be saying that God caused all the suffering in the world. That a child dying of cancer was the work of a supposedly loving God. I couldn't reconcile that in my head. And I was reading the Bible. And Matt Dillahunty has said, that has led more people away from belief than any so-called deceits of Satan.
So after thirty years of living with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which robbed me of what could have been the most productive years in my life seeing as I was sober and my lifelong battle with depression was being well managed with medication and treatment; losing both my parents in the last three years; and suffering a minor heart attack, I now find myself an atheist. I simply am not convinced the supernatural is real. I still attend 12 Step meetings, though I find it difficult at times to listen to people talking about why they believe in their God. Every time I hear someone say "I know there is a God, because I should be dead," I can't help but think about the alcoholics who did die. Was their God not there for them?
I haven't gone to a Quaker meeting in some time. I just didn't feel right when I have gone. I have had to let go of a part of my identity, that of being a Quaker. It has been difficult these last few years. So, like your guest mentioned, it is nice to know that I am not alone in this kind of experience. Thank you for what you do.
Jake, trust me … you are not alone …. Actually you sound like a smart strong individual who has reasoned through your thoughts and have faced your own problems head on …. If you are a good person that is all that counts …. And is something to be proud of …. Stay strong and remember you are not alone …. Take care …
What an exceptional, entertaining and enlightening conversation. Thank you both.
Atheist forever, but so enjoy
your videos, Seth. Best wishes.
Long live atheists!!
be free from bs brother .
Growing up I thought about God, gods, and religions. But I can't recall ever believing in a god. Or ever feeling like needed a god.
I'm actually really enjoying this conversation oh and Carl Sagan was my hero in my teens
I was never really a believer even though I was raised Catholic. I only went through Confirmation because it was expected of me, but by that point I was fully checked out of religion. One thing that always struck me with the story of the crucifixion was when Jesus said, "God, why have you forsaken me?" Which I always read as Jesus saying, "Damn. This is NOT happening the way my Father told me. Holy shit. I'm actually going to die!" I know apologists will come out with their arsenal trying to explain that exclamation away. I don't really buy them though. That's not something someone would say unless they convinced themselves prior that God would swoop down and save them from the pain, agony, and death. I don't mind people having faith, ultimately I really don't care, but don't try to force the dogma of your faith onto me or anyone else, ESPECIALLY not through government policy. The Christian Nationalists trying to hijack the government of the United States scare me. They're already working on dismantling our secular, pluralistic society; I fear what will happen when they think their work is largely done...
Yeah I read that flipping thru the Bible too and I was like why is he talking too himself ?Made no sense same as now you can't keep contradictory points how am I supposed too believe when it's just have a feeling like no I can't do that I don't worship it goes against my nature if God is male it's homophobic and if it's a woman well that would make sense again no @ no just stop 🛑.
and if i knew that i am god as the second person of the trinity and would ressurect again after three days...
where is the sacrifice!?
Everything happens for a reason. It was meant to be. YOU are exactly where youre meant to be. Makes me wanna scream. Try being housebound 80 % of your time in pain for rest of your life
Great discussion guys! Two educated men proving their competency of life and reality in such a reverent way. Thx
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You don’t loose faith, you gain freedom. It’s the emancipation of intellectual, rational and psychological subjugation.
🙇🏾♂️
You from Antigua?
I left the church & am now thinking more logically about things. I enjoyed this conversation.
“There can be no progress without head-on confrontation.”
― Christopher Hitchens, Love, Poverty, and War: Journeys and Essays
14:15 - Many of these pastors will argue that we "just know" that some things are objectively right and wrong. This causes major problems when they go on to say that drowning children isn't wrong, even though we "just know" that it's wrong.
"When I learned that Faith is NOT a virtue..."
That's how I phrase it. That was the death blow. Faith is a *bad* way to discover and evaluate Truth. The strength of my faith was a *detriment*, not a gift. I could fall for anything that way. But I had to put serious effort into letting go of that base concept.
Seth and Dave! Great conversation. Ticks me off, Seth you get better looking as you age. I sure don't, lol. Just what I needed! Two good looking men talking with logic. Love it! Love the book, too. 👍🌊💙💙💙🌊🥰✌
Great conversation. My favorite part from Mr. Ramsey was: "If you answer the question of "Who taught you that, you will go back, invariably, to a time where that person, who taught that person, knew less about the world than my daughters when they were 12 years old.""
This is one of the best video's I have watched about de-converting. I did so a couple of years ago and experienced first hand many of the things they are discussing. Thank you Seth for sharing this with us. And thank you Mr. Ramsey for sharing your incredible story.
I feel fed and nourished by this interview. Thanks for some great points that have clarified some issues I've been pondering.
I enjoyed the conversation. Thanks Seth and David. 🤟
I really enjoyed this podcast. At the beginning of my education after high school back in 1982 I had worked on becoming a pastor. I completed it through your program, and I am so glad I did that because when I got done, I had made a decision not to be a pastor. I hated it I hated it. There’s only one thing I liked about it, and that was to go visit the old people that was it. I saw so much bickering and anger towards members of the church specially when I had to go to those meetings, I just thought it was its second me. And then when I had to tell my mother that I was not gonna be a preacher. Oh my God, fuck everything with the hell because she had just got off the phone with friends of ours that that we had known since I was five years old and her son was going to be a pastor and they were both bragging about you know my phones gonna get this church my sons gonna get the shirts by blah blah blah that blah blah blah bullshit and when I had to tell her man I was shaking I was so nervous, but I couldn’t go through with it. I couldn’t go any further than what I did. And I’m so grateful I did that and now I’m a social worker/mental health professional.
Great to hear stories like this. It shows, we can all grow, learn and evolve.
The best response to "I'll pray for you."
-
"Oh bless your heart. You do that."
What a refreshing video, full of TRUTH and REALITY.
This guy is different. A lot of ex-Christians are angry ragers, but this guy is calm and collected. Love it. Wish more of us ex-Christians were like him
Those are the religious abuse PTSD symptoms. They should subside, eventually.
Maybe he was and moved past that
I’ve been so chill since I quit a 25-year Baptist ministry
@@hjeffwallace That’s amazing. Mad props. Wish there was a ministry for ex-Christians lol
Happy to meet another not-raging former believer! We’re out here, a little sore but anything but hateful or confrontational (we’ll, maybe a little confrontational with certain types of believers).
Yep. It's interesting to hear someone who was on the inside articulate the true motives of Evangelicalism in the USA. It's exactly what I thought. Btw, great interview.
Splitters. We need more like DB.Ramsey.
I think I was always pretty much an "agnostic atheist", even if I did not really think about it, but I think my entry into the "atheist community" was mostly spurred by politicians using religion to drive/excuse behavior that seemed immoral. So I would like you to know that there is at least one member of your audience who is perfectly happy for you to delve into the intersection of politics with religion, humanism, and/or skepticism.
I agree. I think Christian nationalists are the biggest block vote to overcome in the next election.
Someone asked me how I lost my faith. I replied that it wasn’t lost; I know exactly where I left it.
He said the quiet part out loud, love it
WHERE???❤❤
CAN U DO A TINESTAMP PLEASE?❤
TIMESTAMP❤
When I lost my faith, I found myself.
“When I came to my senses and regained possession of my rational mind…”
“My sermons became almost exclusively existential. My prayers were vain and vapid.” He described me during my last year of preaching! It’s like your conscience cannot allow you to go any further with the bs and instead you transform sermons into a type of motivational coaching session and prayers become a very light version of dialectical behavioral therapy😂😂😂😂
when all you know is religion and don't actually KNOW the Living GOD personally yes that's usually what happens. I'm curious as I've asked this many times to those that claim to be ex christians. While you were a believer did you ever have a real biblical encounter with the living GOD where you knew that you knew in that moment you heard Him or felt his actual presence where even at that time you beleived that you were actually in touch with GOD Spirit to spirit. Not talking about just a normal emotion we feel when someone or something touches your heart but an actual supernatural encounter where at that time you KNEW that you KNEW you had been touched by GOD or filled with His Holy Spirit?
@@nicknchrist God of the jewish christian Bible is obviously not very interested in communication with human beings though "he" exclude most of us, then revealing "himself" only to persons mistaking what goes on inside our minds with an external intervention of an celestial entity. Yet are the vast majority of people not experiencing God in the described way as an direct encounter, ever in their lives, expected to believe the message from the minority of persons claiming they have met God! And spirit to spirit? In the Bibel God actually speaks with people, mostly men in an earthly language.
@@nicknchrist hate to break it to you but bronze age myths are not relevant
@@lorihenderson673 totally agree, glad you can distinguish between the evidence that shows Jesus really existed and myths!
@@nicknchrist I've had spiritual experiences
Ex pastors of any religion know how bad the poison of it really is and the real intentions of the religious right which is insidious and evil.
Giving up on religion was the best thing I've ever done for myself..the freedom to think, to live is worth it.
16:36 - I think the simplest reason to say there was a man Jesus is because apocalyptic preachers like him were not uncommon in that time and place, and Christianity makes sense as a cover-up for a failed apocalypse prediction: God's kingdom is actually "spiritual" not physical, and the end of the Earth is actually going to happen *later*, etc. Sounds to me like someone failed to predict the Jewish apocalypse, and then his believers cooked up the most common excuses for failed end-times prophecies.
It's the same reasoning we use to conclude that a porch pirate stole your package: there may be no independent corroboration of his existence, but we know that this kind of person exists, so we say that one such person probably stole your package.
There's also the fact that the authors said Jesus was from Nazareth when the Messiah was supposed to be from Bethlehem, which required Matthew and Luke to write stories to reconcile this problem. Makes sense if you're running interference for a real man from the wrong town, but not if you're inventing a purpose-made man whole-cloth.
The available evidence pertaining to such a narrow issue of ancient history is bound to be equivocal. Weakened by the myriad problems with the textual sources, including the fact that they all passed through the hands of Christian copyists who could have sanitized them with ecumenical interpolations and redactions. We can't even be sure the story we have isn't completely from the original. It's plausible with what little we have that Christians could've started as sect worshiping a cat named Bob a guy named Jesus owned. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------To be sure, the puzzle may be intriguing, but we both know doesn't matter. What matters is moving people toward proper skepticism and critical thinking. Far away from these supernatural beliefs that leave so many incapable and unwilling to come to terms with any of our key social problems. The increasing control over public education by religious fanatics that's entrenching ignorance and intellectual laziness in future generations. Reversing everything their movement have accomplishes in recent years to empower and normalize a dangerous set of antisocial, anti-human, retrograde and anti-democratic values and beliefs.
Losing faith is not a loss, it is seeing the light, the glorious clear light of day.
I continue to be shocked by the doublethink
of theists, esp. Christians, that reconciles all the
vicious, jealous, bloodthirsty actions of their god
- 'cause, heck, he's god and can do anything he likes
- but is still claimed as a foundation and example for
"objective" morality. Strikes me as: God's Alive
So Anything Is Permissible.
Beyond that divine justice: another fine, solid show.
Thank you, gentlemen.
I am so happy to come across this video. Great job. Big fan
Excited to watch this!! Love the enticing title haha ❤️
Hey, Seth, I'm glad you're giving this guy a bit of a platform. Though I respect Matt Dillahunty, I think Ramsay had a bit of a rough go on his show.
As always (and I do mean always), great interview, Seth. All the best.
I just had a thought while listening to this video. They were talking about how Yahweh was a monster in the OT. It was mentioned that it's so incredible what inerrantist will do and say to justify their god's actions and character.
It occurred to me that it's really not so amazing how SOME deeply religious and pious Christians can take their justifications for what they believe to an extreme and be willing to apply that allegiance to human monsters. I think this may be part of why we see people that claim to follow the Jesus of the Bible and what he preached do a 180° on that ideology and viciously attack thoses who they believe don't agree with them. We have white s*premists and neo-n**es who claim to be given there righteous mission from on high, when objectively, they are doing incredibly monstrous things. They follow a god who is a horror and say how he is the Master. It's really no wonder that they don't see how horrendous their behavior is.
Well said.
If God decided to save you - you will believe , and have no say in it. It will be irresistible and effectual.
@@jakesarms8996 Who is God saving me from? Himself? That's the point.
If a human threatened pain or death to another human that was less powerful than them, for no other reason than not agreeing with them, we would consider that abusive. If a parent said to a child, "You can either clean your room or be beaten to with an inch of your life", that would be child abuse. Regardless of the transgression, beating a child is monstrous. Regardless of the transgression, God's threat of hell is monstrous. Especially if it is because I don't believe something exists that there is no evidence for but the assurances of another human who has no more reason to believe than I do.
God does not exist (if you ask me to prove it, I say you prove me wrong. You have no more proof than I do). If God did exist, whether or not he decided to "save" me wouldn't matter. Making the threat in the first place is horrendously abusive. It's not like he's working through some system where he had no control. He set up this system. He could change it if he wanted to. According to believers, he doesn't want to.
@@jakesarms8996 Also, don't continue to preach to me. If I'm right it's pointless and annoying. If you're right, I refuse to condone the worship of such a being. I have yet to hear any reason I should, and I've heard all the arguments.
You haven't got anything I haven't heard before. Leave me alone. If you continue to preach, I'll just block you.
@@Irisarc1 as a believer in Jesus I'm not here trying to preach to you. I respect the decisions you yourself have made. The vast majority of those who claim to be religious can't seem to get it in their heads that Jesus only wants us to preach to those who wanna hear. To push his agendas on any who resist is against God's will. That was the purpose of free will. Unfortunately to many who identify as Christians let their pride and egos get the best of them. Have a great day my friend
Just realized perpetual brainwashing in my senior life has been the most freedom I have known. Then to go learn science and exploration of our universal awesomeness is my blessing. Thank you for being real!
“You were never a Christian” is straight up cognitive dissonance. They have to believe that in order to process the fact that someone who once believed what they currently believe has stopped believing it. People stake their whole lives on their beliefs. They can’t or won’t fathom the idea that maybe all that they have invested their lives into may be wrong so the only “logical” solution is that person who did believe and has now walked away from their faith was never really a Christian in the first place. Then they can rest easy with their own decision. Because let’s face it, Christianity requires a lot of self denial and if you’re heavily invested in it you’re gonna want that eternal reward at the end for all you gave up in this life.
I like this guy!! The moment he said that on Easter he was going to show them the holes about the empty tomb I was all ears to this interview.
For me academics mattered, I studied my way out of Christianity and it helped me so much. After attending Moody Bible Institute and Liberty University online, I had so many questions.
Reading that Bible and peaking behind the curtain of how the religion/text came to be was enough for me.
A clear discussion, certainly a desire for power seems part of this problem that religion is causing. It would be interesting to see a cult deprogrammer as a guest on your channel, maybe they'd have some ideas about what helps people come back out of harmful idea states.
That was really really great, good to have an ex pastors perspective on things, thank you for this
*The worst thing ever;* (the unforgivable sin)
How can simply _"not being convinced"_ of an ancient story (Jesus resurrection) be the worst thing a person could ever do?
And that _"not being convinced"_ is deserving of annihilation at best, or worse, eternal hellfire.
(bizarre & immoral)
Personal overcoming-religion stories are always inspiring to me. Thank you.
I did experience that feeling of loss bc of the way I was raised... it was more of a 'God will make things better; God has a plan', that sort of thing.
Well, plenty of shyt happened, I had questions, and after a while, the disappointment that these wonderful Hallmark moments were just not happening, but plenty of negative was, was just too much. I did feel like a curtain I wasn't even aware of lifted and although I had to admit there was no fairy godfather to take care of me, a lot more things started to make sense.
I grew up United Methodist, converted to southern baptist, went to homeschool with IBLP, went to Oral Roberts University (Charismatic) and Oklahoma Christian University (Church of Christ) and I'm actively deconstructing and currently agnostic trending athiest. I really appreciate Dave's viewpoint as I work through all my damage from Christian fundamentalism and purity culture as I'm now in my 40s.
Great discussion. Cool book title. Gotta get it
Totally reminds me of what in a very private way between him and me, my grandpa, who was, and even when he admitted to me he didn't feel like G really exists, after his own experience as a Minister with US Army during WW2, Dachau and all. However just to be helpful to others he kept being a Minister with a Lutheran Church. I was already by that time an Atheist but didn't tell everyone with family as of yet. Only my mother who also became as well basically at the same time as me knew and brother as well. When he did die he had a video made to be shown at the funeral, where he finally told that he was more agnostic/atheist, especially after his experience of WW2. He vacillated between the 2.
All you have to do is read the Bible to say “this can’t possibly true”. Adam living until 936 being the first sinner who screwed everything up. Men living in fish, 500 year old men building boats, god talking to people and killing people, failed prophecy, animals and humans being formed from the dust, contradictions galore, absurd mythologies galore, you name it. To top it all off you gotta live being guilty just for being human. It’s bullshit. I wish I never would’ve read the Bible to protect my sanity because I was once a Christian but couldn’t do it anymore. Gospels not being eye witness. Looking at Christians and not seeing a Holy Spirit etc. The God of the Bible is extremely insecure for allowing Adam and Eve to be tempted and sending most of his creation to hellfire and brimstone. God creates evil which he’s Holy do how could that happen? Says it in the Old Testament. And, he sends evil spirits into people in the Old Testament. Religion is abuse flat out.
I do not see faith as a linear passage from birth or rebirth to a life of faith. I see it closer to a sine wave that moves up and down. There are times in our lives when the wave is moving up, and we feel we are moving closer to God. Inversely, there will be times in our faith when we think we are moving away from God. These waves can be monumental. In my own life, I was a nominal Christian in my school years, going to church with my Christian Mom. As I reached my late teens and into my twenties, I abandoned all pretence of being a Christian. In my early thirties, I refound my faith in God and pursued that life full throttle up a massive sine wave. I then had a crisis that started as a mess with the Christian organization I was a pastor in and progressed very rapidly into becoming an agnostic, which is where I happily reside today. I continue to have a healthy marriage. I don't go to church with my wife very often, and she doesn't usually watch edgy shows with me on the television. We have reached an equilibrium, and my sine wave is relatively flat these days.
I use a line that I used when pushing the poison...but when I witnessed my dog giving birth and screaming in pain...isn't that God's curse on women for eve leading adam to sin, but yet animals are sinless...the bonds of oppression (religion) was lifted off me and I was free!
I did quite a lot of preaching in the cult I was involved with for nearly a decade. Looking back it is hard to believe I thought and taught the things I did.
Really great interview Seth! Thank you to D.B. as well.
Here is the thing to think about the "Devil". If your God is all powerful creator of the Universe, who knows all, sees all, and can wipe out a galaxy with a snap of his fingers. Why would he allow a being like the devil to arise, and challenge is power?
Yes, and how could an all knowing God not have known that Adam and Eve were going to go against his wishes? Then when they do, he punishes all of mankind for eternity. Then there's the Jesus nonsense where he basically sends himself down to earth to sacrifice himself to himself, and only those who believe in the nonsense story of Jesus dying for our made-up sins get to go to heaven. How on earth does any sane person believe in all that crap? I just don't get it.