Panel discussion at MCM Studios in Chelsea with Douglas Rushkoff, Guy McPherson, Vicki Robin, Nathan Dufour Oglesby, Doug Henwood, and Bob Eisenberg. Moderated by Daniel Pinchbeck.
This has to be really painful for Guy McPherson to listen to - he's a conservation biology professor yet everyone else is claiming they know what evolution is - meanwhile they are blatantly misrepresenting what evolution is. Daniel you are among the worst of this - not sure if you are just promoting the whole Jose Arguelles schtick theosophy thang on purpose? A third of my undergraduate degree was in biology. Conservation biology professor Michael Soule wrote that evolution ended for large mammals since the 1970s due to lack of habitat. By large mammals he included humans. When you say an estimated Two billion people are to move to Canada - that ignores the fact that there is a lack of agricultural soil for that many people in Canada. The farther north you go the worse the soil gets.
I think it’s something like 75-80% of ingredients for medicine are imported. Imagine when crop failures in a 2.5°C world occur. Countries will cease exports to us so as to horde what crops they were able to salvage for themselves . Just Imagine.
In 50 years time, if there are any people to look back at talks like this, it will be like us now looking back at hippies in the 60's, "wanking lyrical" in a fog of sanctimony about the "future"....nothing changes.
I commented earlier before watching the whole video. This is Eurocentric discussion. The very problem. That which created the problem. Guy kept low key, perhaps because he knows the truth because he speaks of white privilege and connects climate change to European colonialism.
If this topic interests you, read the book Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. It explains exactly how we got here and how civilization is not in accordance with life itself. We are all living a story that does not work and the entire basis is forcing everyone to live and think the same way. WAIT! you might say. We all think different and have different cultures. Read the book and then get back to me. I also have a question for Guy McPherson- Why didn't the aerosol masking effect take place in a major way during COVID?
Well I believe it's because they started to spray the skies on a much greater scale than before to compensate for the lack of industrial activity, at least that's what I've noticed.
Look at the acceleration in global warming since 2015, just under half a degree per decade now. A lot of that has to do with changes in global shipping fuel composition
I noticed something major happening above during that time period. I must pay attention to the way of my expression in order for my co..mme..nt to stay.
It did - Aerosol Masking Effect is regional. goto Googlescholar - there was studies on how Covid industrial shutdown also reduced the Aerosol Masking Effect and increased warming.
There were regional temperature increases when industrial shutdown happened during Covid - googlescholar has studies on that. James E. Hansen has emphasized the reduction of aerosol masking due to new shipping regulations as the biggest cause of global temperature increase currently. A 40% reduction of burning coal with sulfur pollution heats up Earth another 1 degree Celsius global average. This is based on Daniel Rosenfeld's research group on aerosol masking - when it was discovered to be twice as bad as previously thought.
That first hobo-looking guy was off his chops 😂 I can tell he is, or at least was, intelligent but it was a struggle to listen to him. I’m not a prude, don’t care about swearing whatsoever when effective, but the sweary guy was so annoying. He redeemed himself a bit on his talk although I’m not quite sure I followed what his propositions were, or agreed with his outlook on metaphysics. I agree with McPherson’s prediction of nobody making it past 2030 (besides some bunker dwellers, but they’ll only last as long as their supplies do). Dubious about there being more microplastics than sand on beaches though lol. I do like and respect him but he’s not the best of the climate scientists IMO. Vicky’s topic of overshoot is extremely interesting, I’d recommend everyone to delve into that (see William Rees). The rest of her talk was engaging and I agree for the main part although I have a much more sceptical outlook on each point she raised. When cities run out of food, they will spread to the farms, nobody and nowhere will be safe when the shelves are empty. It’s too late to become part of the ecology, we’ve decimated it. Steve raises a great point - no matter our understanding of any of the crises, we don’t seem to be able to change anything yet. I also agree, P2025 sounds terrifying. Too optimistic at the end, he doesn’t think we can both acknowledge the full extent of how doomed we are and still maintain a desire to create a better system for the end days. Douglas was brilliant; emotive, intelligent, effortlessly humorous and has an interesting take on how much we don’t yet know and much of the stuff we think we know could be wrong. Read his piece if you haven’t yet, it’s very good. All-in-all it was a good session. My criticism is there needed to be some more brutal realism on how savage a complete civilisational collapse is and the fact it’s inevitable. I stopped listening 90 mins in so my ‘review’ only goes up to then
Good assessment. I would just add that Guy isn't a climate scientist, he's just an ecologist who studied it extensively in for personal interest (like me 😊). On overshoot, you might also like Sid Smith, if you haven't heard him yet. You seem perfectly well informed. Cheers
@@MattAngiono Sid’s very good from the one video of his I’ve see . I didn’t think I knew of him when you suggested to look him up until I searched him and remembered seeing the video ‘HTETEOTW Chapter 5’. This is probably a better recommendation than Bill’s talks for someone new to all of this because it has explanatory visuals. Have you read Overshoot by William R. Catton Jr? I found it to be a great read. I’m going to read it again actually as it’s been years since.
Always interesting to hear Guy McPherson but more variety in cultural perspectives would have been better. The lack of cultural representation on the panel becomes a representation of why we are doomed.
Wrong age diversity also right? Maybe we are worrying about the wrong things in life. Maybe its the thinking that is the problem. We have so many so happy and JOYOUS people here in the US that we might have a minority WOMAN open up new drilling and serve the billionaires and lead us to doom. Of course it will be a better death if its not a white male leading us to doom. USA!
Only here for Douglas Rushkoff...he is the shit! Guy McPherson may be nice guy, but professionally is a failed cult leader who predicted the end of the world, repeatedly, a decade ago.
Doug "magic and mind-shift!" That's what I also subscribe to... We need to shift into the great possibilities, so one real way, now, is the adoption of a true #UBI ! We let billionaires try all sorts of things to get to Mars and create more more more, but we won't give citizens a real sustainable way to end poverty, hunger and suffering ! We continue to justify why not to implement a true UBI, and to justify poverty, and accept that 30 percent of the world still lives in the poorest conditions, we are doomed. The new evolution of humanity is stifled because we are not allowing everyone to realize their best complete potentials ! If we all have that realization and able to achieve our best goals, that win, will be felt collectively, to boost us into the next evolutionary phase of our human being existence ! Right ?!
Right on! The most creative people I know are barely surviving or end up depressed and stifled working at dumb jobs just to pay insane housing/living costs. 😢
I think we have to assume that if they do allow a UBI, it will be attached to blockchain and surveillance technology. You will only get your allowance if you behave (likely in ways you don't want to). I'm not happy to say this.... But I think it's the only way they would let such a thing happen. This system thrives off of poverty and depression. It doesn't really work when most people are well educated and free thinking
In the 2021 film "Finch," the world's protective ozone layer was destroyed by massive solar flares, not the meltdown of nuclear power plants, as is made clear in the actual film, and which has been discussed by the filmmakers in published interviews. I've made Dr. McPherson aware of this nearly a dozen times (since he's made the same erroneous claim again and again in numerous videos he's uploaded to his TH-cam channel for over a year).
Roger H., formerly of Extinction Rebellion laid out our somewhat depressing future some time ago. Nothing new here. According to him based on our inaction in certain respects things look pretty bleak.
Yeah, but his solutions are idiotic and even psychopathic. "Just stop oil?".... Seriously? Just how does that even work, and what's the effect? According to what Guy talks about here, that literally makes the situation worse. So he's essentially convincing people to get arrested for nothing
@@MattAngiono NEWS FLASH! Last time I checked oil was a nonrenewable limited resource anyway so it will eventually "just stop" one day regardless of Rogers "idiotic solutions". ( unless the CO2 emissions burn up the planet first that is 🔥🌏 ). What ur basically saying is that u have absolutely no problem being pro-war because surely u must realize that as long as there's a ounce of oil to be had in the ground, be it in Libya or Venezuela there will be a conflict over it. 🛢️
It doesn't give a good vibe that in one of the most multiracial places on earth like NY you guys came up with an all-white people panel. (how curious and unexpected hey)
World ending but not the right people telling us. And Trump Trump Trump. Maybe it's our THINKING and our THINKING about the wrong things that are leading us to doom. Vibes tho. VIBES
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
This has to be really painful for Guy McPherson to listen to - he's a conservation biology professor yet everyone else is claiming they know what evolution is - meanwhile they are blatantly misrepresenting what evolution is. Daniel you are among the worst of this - not sure if you are just promoting the whole Jose Arguelles schtick theosophy thang on purpose? A third of my undergraduate degree was in biology. Conservation biology professor Michael Soule wrote that evolution ended for large mammals since the 1970s due to lack of habitat. By large mammals he included humans. When you say an estimated Two billion people are to move to Canada - that ignores the fact that there is a lack of agricultural soil for that many people in Canada. The farther north you go the worse the soil gets.
Guy is right, in so far as human extinction is on the menu. 20$$ is up to nature
love this. appreciate the sense of humor and intellectual rigor!!
Permaculture and connecting with others within your local community ain’t gonna save anyone in a 4°C. world.
Those in bunkers will die in bunkers.
ya, we're fucked.
Homo Colossus has truly earned the consequences of our collective hubris & this panel is a perfect diorama for documenting that.
I enjoyed this so much :-) Looking forward to more
What in the world is this? F this F that.. that guy in the beginning is terrible. Guy must be embarrassed to be on this panel.
I think it’s something like 75-80% of ingredients for medicine are imported.
Imagine when crop failures in a 2.5°C world occur. Countries will cease exports to us so as to horde what crops they were able to salvage for themselves . Just Imagine.
❤
Debt was an important part of the economy of Sumer (early Mesopotamian civilization), as well as that of the Roman Republic.
In 50 years time, if there are any people to look back at talks like this, it will be like us now looking back at hippies in the 60's, "wanking lyrical" in a fog of sanctimony about the "future"....nothing changes.
I commented earlier before watching the whole video. This is Eurocentric discussion. The very problem. That which created the problem. Guy kept low key, perhaps because he knows the truth because he speaks of white privilege and connects climate change to European colonialism.
Judging people by skin color or cultural heritage doesn't make sense to me. Truth isn't color coded.
Yeah yeah and its all bs terms like 'cis' white men...its this type of far left crap that has wrecked solidarity and empathy.
Daniel - I used to post on "Breaking Open the Head" - back when I was doing data entry for Tim Walz first Get Out the Vote data base in 2006. hahaha.
Just 2 minutes in... I just imagine the sound guy pulling out his hair...
If this topic interests you, read the book Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. It explains exactly how we got here and how civilization is not in accordance with life itself. We are all living a story that does not work and the entire basis is forcing everyone to live and think the same way. WAIT! you might say. We all think different and have different cultures. Read the book and then get back to me.
I also have a question for Guy McPherson- Why didn't the aerosol masking effect take place in a major way during COVID?
Well I believe it's because they started to spray the skies on a much greater scale than before to compensate for the lack of industrial activity, at least that's what I've noticed.
Look at the acceleration in global warming since 2015, just under half a degree per decade now. A lot of that has to do with changes in global shipping fuel composition
I noticed something major happening above during that time period. I must pay attention to the way of my expression in order for my co..mme..nt to stay.
It did - Aerosol Masking Effect is regional. goto Googlescholar - there was studies on how Covid industrial shutdown also reduced the Aerosol Masking Effect and increased warming.
There were regional temperature increases when industrial shutdown happened during Covid - googlescholar has studies on that. James E. Hansen has emphasized the reduction of aerosol masking due to new shipping regulations as the biggest cause of global temperature increase currently. A 40% reduction of burning coal with sulfur pollution heats up Earth another 1 degree Celsius global average. This is based on Daniel Rosenfeld's research group on aerosol masking - when it was discovered to be twice as bad as previously thought.
That first hobo-looking guy was off his chops 😂 I can tell he is, or at least was, intelligent but it was a struggle to listen to him.
I’m not a prude, don’t care about swearing whatsoever when effective, but the sweary guy was so annoying. He redeemed himself a bit on his talk although I’m not quite sure I followed what his propositions were, or agreed with his outlook on metaphysics.
I agree with McPherson’s prediction of nobody making it past 2030 (besides some bunker dwellers, but they’ll only last as long as their supplies do). Dubious about there being more microplastics than sand on beaches though lol. I do like and respect him but he’s not the best of the climate scientists IMO.
Vicky’s topic of overshoot is extremely interesting, I’d recommend everyone to delve into that (see William Rees). The rest of her talk was engaging and I agree for the main part although I have a much more sceptical outlook on each point she raised. When cities run out of food, they will spread to the farms, nobody and nowhere will be safe when the shelves are empty. It’s too late to become part of the ecology, we’ve decimated it.
Steve raises a great point - no matter our understanding of any of the crises, we don’t seem to be able to change anything yet. I also agree, P2025 sounds terrifying. Too optimistic at the end, he doesn’t think we can both acknowledge the full extent of how doomed we are and still maintain a desire to create a better system for the end days.
Douglas was brilliant; emotive, intelligent, effortlessly humorous and has an interesting take on how much we don’t yet know and much of the stuff we think we know could be wrong. Read his piece if you haven’t yet, it’s very good.
All-in-all it was a good session. My criticism is there needed to be some more brutal realism on how savage a complete civilisational collapse is and the fact it’s inevitable. I stopped listening 90 mins in so my ‘review’ only goes up to then
Good assessment.
I would just add that Guy isn't a climate scientist, he's just an ecologist who studied it extensively in for personal interest (like me 😊).
On overshoot, you might also like Sid Smith, if you haven't heard him yet.
You seem perfectly well informed. Cheers
@@MattAngiono Sid’s very good from the one video of his I’ve see . I didn’t think I knew of him when you suggested to look him up until I searched him and remembered seeing the video ‘HTETEOTW Chapter 5’. This is probably a better recommendation than Bill’s talks for someone new to all of this because it has explanatory visuals.
Have you read Overshoot by William R. Catton Jr? I found it to be a great read. I’m going to read it again actually as it’s been years since.
Mao was right.
Always interesting to hear Guy McPherson but more variety in cultural perspectives would have been better. The lack of cultural representation on the panel becomes a representation of why we are doomed.
Wrong age diversity also right? Maybe we are worrying about the wrong things in life. Maybe its the thinking that is the problem. We have so many so happy and JOYOUS people here in the US that we might have a minority WOMAN open up new drilling and serve the billionaires and lead us to doom. Of course it will be a better death if its not a white male leading us to doom. USA!
The goofy wokeness of your comment is a far better "representation of why we are doomed".
Only here for Douglas Rushkoff...he is the shit!
Guy McPherson may be nice guy, but professionally is a failed cult leader who predicted the end of the world, repeatedly, a decade ago.
Doug "magic and mind-shift!" That's what I also subscribe to...
We need to shift into the great possibilities, so one real way, now, is the adoption of a true #UBI ! We let billionaires try all sorts of things to get to Mars and create more more more, but we won't give citizens a real sustainable way to end poverty, hunger and suffering !
We continue to justify why not to implement a true UBI, and to justify poverty, and accept that 30 percent of the world still lives in the poorest conditions, we are doomed. The new evolution of humanity is stifled because we are not allowing everyone to realize their best complete potentials ! If we all have that realization and able to achieve our best goals, that win, will be felt collectively, to boost us into the next evolutionary phase of our human being existence ! Right ?!
Right on! The most creative people I know are barely surviving or end up depressed and stifled working at dumb jobs just to pay insane housing/living costs. 😢
I think we have to assume that if they do allow a UBI, it will be attached to blockchain and surveillance technology.
You will only get your allowance if you behave (likely in ways you don't want to).
I'm not happy to say this....
But I think it's the only way they would let such a thing happen.
This system thrives off of poverty and depression. It doesn't really work when most people are well educated and free thinking
In the 2021 film "Finch," the world's protective ozone layer was destroyed by massive solar flares, not the meltdown of nuclear power plants, as is made clear in the actual film, and which has been discussed by the filmmakers in published interviews. I've made Dr. McPherson aware of this nearly a dozen times (since he's made the same erroneous claim again and again in numerous videos he's uploaded to his TH-cam channel for over a year).
Vicki Robin speaks truth
WE PREY YELLOW STONE ERUPTS
Do you mean Pray? Are you uneducated or what
It was a eurucentric discussion
the scientist I listen to say we're at 1.5 degrees and we hit 2 degrees for a short period but we're not there at an average
Is this SCTV?
I still maintain its not wise to put a date on the end times. Its always wrong and it makes you look very uncredible.
Roger H., formerly of Extinction Rebellion laid out our somewhat depressing future some time ago. Nothing new here. According to him based on our inaction in certain respects things look pretty bleak.
Yeah, but his solutions are idiotic and even psychopathic.
"Just stop oil?"....
Seriously?
Just how does that even work, and what's the effect?
According to what Guy talks about here, that literally makes the situation worse.
So he's essentially convincing people to get arrested for nothing
@@MattAngiono NEWS FLASH! Last time I checked oil was a nonrenewable limited resource anyway so it will eventually "just stop" one day regardless of Rogers "idiotic solutions". ( unless the CO2 emissions burn up the planet first that is 🔥🌏 ). What ur basically saying is that u have absolutely no problem being pro-war because surely u must realize that as long as there's a ounce of oil to be had in the ground, be it in Libya or Venezuela there will be a conflict over it. 🛢️
@@MattAngionoExactly right!
It doesn't give a good vibe that in one of the most multiracial places on earth like NY you guys came up with an all-white people panel. (how curious and unexpected hey)
World ending but not the right people telling us. And Trump Trump Trump. Maybe it's our THINKING and our THINKING about the wrong things that are leading us to doom. Vibes tho. VIBES
I'm sure obsessing about the color of people's skin is the most important thing we can focus on right now......
Yeah right, because this crowd is OH SO bigoted.
Doomed to be dumb?