I drove 2900 miles in a Battery Electric Double Decker | My Thoughts
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ส.ค. 2023
- I drove a Battery Electric Double Decker bus across the US! It was an amazing trip. In this video, Ill go over all the good's, bad's, and ugly about the bus, the route, and the charging stations.
I definitely underestimated the difficulties of a All Electric Vehicle.
Check out ABC Companies website to see the full specs of the Double Decker All electric Van Hool TDX 25E that I drove across the US
www.abc-companies.com/van-hoo...
Check out all the livestreams I did everyday while crossing the US
www.youtube.com/@MotorcoachWo...
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Just watched a video on PepsiCo’s Tesla Semis, and nothing but glowing things to say on routes up to 750 miles. Of course, they decided to build their own charging network, at 750kW. But the point is: a good charge network is key.
Very informative series. Thank you James, Dennis, Peoria Charter, families, ABC & VanHool as well as the support teams. Does highlight the enormous amount of work Commercial EV's are going to need to succeed. My guess is commercial EV in 2023 is equivalent to about 1905 in petroleum powered transport.
You should write acceptance speeches for the VMA’s.
But you’re right in your comparison to 1905 peto tech
We have a LONG WAY TO GO!!!
I really appreciate your honesty about all of the less-than-optimal situations and for not sugar coating the grittier and unpleasant experiences too. That was an excellent summary of the trip.
I believe what you folks demonstrated in this field test is proof in the pudding that there are so many considerations, challenges and hard line limitations to an electric vehicle and also reason why other propulsion options should not be eliminated at this point in time. Propulsion systems are like tools to me, you need to find the right one for the specific job at hand.
Also, thanks for the bus nut mention, btw.
Do bear in mind what this is all about. It's not about EV's vs ICE - it's about Unelected and Unregulated people hell bent on taking away the rightof everyday people to have access to mobility. It's a HUGE step towards 15 minute cities and - with CBDC'S - total control of your lives.
That pretty much sums everything up. Just one thing: Make sure Dennis gets much of the credit for driving too. Some new viewers may be led to believe that you drove the whole time. Looking forward to more of these.
Glad you all had a great and safe trip despite charging issues. I really think it was a great test for Van Hool and ABC to learn more about potential issues that could arise over time.
Doing this in the winter might prove devastating to the EV hopeful
Good video. Nice and unbiased review of your journey. I am a bit surprised about the trash at the charging stations as some of it at least was dumped there by EV owners. Also the unplugging and fighting. Not what I would consider very green behavior.
At least one of those looked like it was just trash blowing from across the rest of the lot and just getting stuck on the wall. But the EV crowd isn’t one really known for practicing what they preach. Just look at the wasteland of litter left at environmental rallies.
The fact that many people are inconsiderate pigs is unfortunate. It may be a small thing where someone or company is hired to clean up. But guess what? A lot of little things in life add up.
These people are not "green" they fly on airplanes and usually live in big homes!
@@stevepackard8542 Well see they know better than the rest of us. In all candor, these new generation Diesel engines are cleaner and quieter than ever. The other day a diesel power school bus went past the house. It was almost as quiet as a gasoline powered sedan.
A few days ago I discovered your two channels, and they are excellent. You have a new subscriber from Chile. Greetings.
Electric is probably not for long haul buses...yet. For city buses it works pretty good, here in Helsinki most buses are electric and they seem to work really well
I appreciate the star trek edits in the video, thanks for showing the capabilities of the Proterra Batteries
You can now mark that off your bucket list. Thanks for letting us tag along.
TFL TH-cam guys Rueben & Andre did a trip from Orange County California to Orange County Florida.
Sort of a Disneyland to Disney World trip.
With an Electric Ionic 5. Hyundai. They made the trip in 44 hours. (Just for comparison). They only stopped to charge the car.
Perhaps next time does something like this, they can have some sort of raffle or contest and let a few of us come along.
Hopefully EA or other companies will work to set up proper charging pull through infrastructure for bigger vehicles like this.
Hi 👋 James Thankyou for this video All of your Teem & Family..Did very well..We in the Transport business have a long way to go 😮💨 One step at a time 👣 Good on all of YOU ! A Warm Welcome to Winnipeg 🦬 Manitoba🌾Canada 🇨🇦 Lots of Bus History In Winnipeg..Go in God's Speed.. 🙏🇺🇦
Outstanding James ,, thanks for a great journey :-)
Great video, thanks for pioneering such an epic voyage!! And congrats on a successful trip. Sorry to hear of such struggles with EA chargers, although this is consistent with what I am hearing for passenger vehicles. Two minor corrections for you: the Proterra batteries weigh ~9,000 lbs (not 22,000 lbs). And batteries are not the limiting factor to charge rate of 150kW, rather, the vehicle charge port is. CCS1 limit is typically 200A (~150kW), although 350A (~250kW) may be possible with latest hardware (referring to air-cooled cable setups).
CCS 1 is not a limiting factor on the vehicles charge speed at all. The CCS 1 connector can deliver 500 amps on a 1000v circuit so there is no limit by the connector on charging speed at all. Also, all signet 350kw electrify America stations are 500A, but the EA ABB chargers have been load restricted to 350A since 2022.
Great video. Learned a lot from your trip.
how did watch it all in 4 minutes ago uploaded it?
Thank you for sharing your journey with us and answering our questions, even from the pool! 🌟
Important trip, well documented. As a commenter on one of the earlier videos indicated, hope some of the folks in Washington spend some time watching this video series.
I love the idea of electric... But battery tech just isn't where it needs to be yet imo. Electric motors are definitely where they need to be though. I really think the correct short to medium term answer is hybrid technology. Pure electric just isn't ready yet, not just in battery tech, but also just in the charging infrastructure (and frankly, competition in that space to propel quality services foreward.) Just my $0.02. It was fun to watch your trip and the issues you experienced were enlightening. Glad you all had fun and made it safely!
The battery tech is much closer to 'ready' than the charging infrastructure, it would seem.
@@raygunsforronnie847 Very true, but until we can find a way to massively increase power storage density without having to make use of large amounts of rare earth minerals... Battery tech will continue to be outpaced and lag behind. What happens when we run out of known minable Lithium deposits? Nothing lasts foreverr, mines eventualy dry up and then prices skyrocket to unobtainable heights.
Charging of the batteries is also dependent on internal temperature of the cells. During hot internal or external temps the batteries won;t charge at a high rate.
Ditto cold temperatures
thank you for doing this. I thought I had to plan carefully with my pick-up and travel trailer when it came to where I can easily get fuel. An electric vehicle is a big no for me at this ttime. Love your stuff.
You and billions of others outside of urban areas.. the problems are going to grow as more ppl need to use the existing chargers... No matter how many leads - there's still going to be a restriction in total amps available.
Since you got back, how many times have you gone down to the yard and fired up your CAT or Detroit and just closed your eyes and listened? 😄 Enjoyed keeping up with your journey!
Lol how'd you know??
Haha! Because we’re coach operators and that’s what I’d do!
Bottom line, getting juice sucks! When every truck stop is FINALLY equipped to charge large vehicles, we will have arrived.
We're still far behind when it comes to OTR coach EVs. Ive followed this saga in bits n pieces
And all the chargers are still designed for four wheelers.
Oh yeah and monopolies suck
And, 62k# weight eh... that doesnt give much weight when it comes to passengers and luggage. As/is thats like 3/4 of the legal limit
And too think that current ev sales are at around 5%, charging infrastructure needs an overhaul if the government hopes to meet 2040 or earlier zero emission vehicle sales requirements.
they need to make a diesel electric bus, best of both , you can go longer distances
One of your Loyal Subscribers, I really enjoy watching your Videos. I Drove for Greyhound 🇨🇦, for 18 years.
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I couldn't always be there for the live video so I loved the summary video. Also, I love how you always mention the people behind the scenes. As you said, they make the wheels turn! :)
So glad I got to meet you and the family out in Buckeye, James. I wish I would have joined you for dinner that night as we didn't get to talk a whole lot due the charging pitfalls you were dealing with.
Absolutely. And thanks for helping us out. Glad you were there. Thanks again.
Great potential but we’re just not there yet for long-distance touring and I think this trip proves it.
From what I've heard from another TH-camr the chargers of Electrify America are actually not that good. I'm curious what the result would be of doing a similar trip using a different network or over here in Europe.
@@treinenliefde oh man that would be fun. I would love to track across Europe
@@treinenliefdeits more about the range 250 miles is nowhere near good enough for long distance especially in America
@@DC3Refom I don't fully agree with that statement. If you drive during the day stopping about every three hours isn't too big of a problem. It might take longer but it's also more relaxing and comfortable. Having been on the occasional bus drive through the Netherlands or also into Germany and the UK as a passenger it isn't nice to be inside one for a long time. Although having more range is of course more practical.
Yes, and I'm still surprised that some folks think an entire charging industry can pop up like mushrooms after rain. The large electric vehicle market has existed for about 5 years. Perhaps we should all get in the Wayback Machine and see what it would have been like to drive an ICE powered truck across the country in 1912 (5 years after the Model T came to market). Back then, Big Oil existed mostly for the kerosene to supply light and heat; vehicle fuels were a new thing.
Great video. You look a lot less stressed than you did in a few of those on the road vids during those 2900+ miles. Enjoyed following you and your family on the journey. Thanks!
I would suggest they put charging ports on each corner of the bus to help with the funky charging spots.
I think a long extension cord where you don't have to park in the spot is the number one option I would want.
I'd suggest a diesel generator
Thank you for the informative content you create. I have learned a lot from your experience of this trip and realise that it is still very early in the EV-era. It will probably take a decade or two before the infrastructure and other issues have been addressed so you can have a hassle free experience while making such a trip. Cheers from Sweden!
I'm really sorry to inform you, but after extensive research I honestly don't think that day will ever arrive. Don't waste your time looking for information on YT. Dig deep into what the motor industry CEO's are saying. BTW. Whatever you do, don't use Google or Wiki for researching.... Never ever. 🙏
THank for you taking this journey!
Hey James, I'm driving a VanHool double-decker today for work. The diesel version is quite an experience.
Really great to see this epic journey summarised in a big video. I was following along Facebook and the live streams and saw the challenges as well as the triumphs. Well done!
Very interesting video. Great job!
Great series I enjoyed watching your travels. Thanks for sharing.
We eat at Shaggy's every time we go down to Gulfport. Last time we ate under the random wooden beam and green umbrella. Thats crazy! Being from the Chicagoland area, man its nice down there after a long winter. Glad to hear yall had fun :)
*Next time your down there check out the Pass Christian Books just west of Shaggys. Good books and great coffee.
Small world. That's awesome
Awesome 👏🏾 summary. Congratulations 🍾🎉🎊!
I followed your trip from start to finish through all of the charging frustrations. My opinion is the U.S.A. is 20 years away from over the roxde vehicles being electric, that being motor coaces and semis. Your experience would make an excellent presentation at the UMA and your videos should be sent to the D.O.T. and Congress so they can see how electric vehicles do not have the infrastructure to support them. You have made a ground trip and further investigstion into electric vechicles and their viability in cross country needs to be continued. Great video and great topic.
I wonder if a CCS extension cord would allow easier parking, but it would have to be big, heavy, and expensive to handle the energy flow.
Also i really hope public charging infrastructure improves
given they usually derate from heat because they're actively cooled and the cooling system failed, a big extension cord (with higher resistances so higher draw for the same amount of power at the busses plug) ... yeahno.
Enjoyed following your adventure across America! Almost met you in Hammond Louisiana but you had abandoned that useless charging post and moved on. Even got my wife, brother and SIL interested in y'alls adventure! The biggest lesson I learned from you is I will not buy an electric vehicle! PLUS they do and always will depend on fossil fuels to exist! See you on the next video James!
Thanks for sharing! For me at least, who is on a timeline, that looked absolutely miserable.
James thank you for taking us along on your journey across America. I have travelled that exact route in my bus/coach but without the frustration that you encountered. I followed live when ever possible but think I watched each episode. Again, thanks for a job well done!!!
awesome coach ... very nice video...such a very exciting ride...
Glad your home, safe after the flight home…. Better planning next time you do this… the charging system in place for non-fuel travels seems sketchy at best…. I’ll stick to fuel vehicles only… you looked frustrating while smiling… glad your home guys
Hi James wonerful channel just noticed that at the 17:50 mark there is Storer motorcoach in the background a fellow youtuber by the name of Captain John work for them and posts some of his trips like you do
Thanks for the entertaining video
I liked this video very much as it was very well prepared and presented. Your experiment was terrific as a "checkup" for commercial EV use as well as you pointed out for any articulated vehicle over about 14 feet.
All in all, I think the real problem is Van Hool Engineering who just does not see the real world as being worth dealing with at this time. Some smart OEM is going to jump in with their cup holders and appropriate charging flexibility and take out the market just as Japanese cars did with cup holders in the 70s...
Fascinating video !
Awesome report!!! Thank you!! It's disappointing that it's more costly to operate. What sorts of issues came up that required ABC tech support?
Exellent video, James.
5:04 minor terminology correction: energy flow os measured in kilowatts, not kilowatts per hour
A kilowatt-hour is an amount of energy used for battery capacity, that is equal to how many kilowatts that the battery cpuld supply for an hour before being depleted
Nice review
How was it to drive an EU style windshield?
In EU this type of double decker is usually used for long tripes, or long distance travel.
I loved it.. sometimes it felt like the cockpit of a truck.
Where I live they still sell gas from glass Coke bottles by the side of the road, but it is less common these days. It took many years to develop the gas station infrastructure and the equivalent for electric vehicles will take time and these are still the Coke bottle days.
Hey thanks for taking the time to write. Wow that is very interesting to read. May I ask what country you live in? I've heard of this before in countries I'm Africa and south America.
@@MotorcoachWorld I live in Cambodia.
Hopefully with the adoption of the North American Charging Standard EV charging will improve and there will actually be competition in the EV charging market as presently the two big names in charging (Tesla and Electrify America) don't have to compete with each other. Good point that while EV busses may be rare for charging networks to deal with, EV trucks with campers are a likely heavy user that will likely need the space as I don't see truck users wanting to unhook their camper every time they need to charge. It looks like it may have also been helpful if Vanhool had located charge ports at the 4 corners of the bus to allow more flexibility in pulling up to a charger accounting for suboptimal charger/charge point location relationship.
I will be interested to see what Tesla does with new super charging stations as the cyber truck becomes more prevalent. The size of it alone pushes the width of the current supercharger spots and I can imagine a whole lot of trailers on those that are incompatible with every supercharger I’ve ever been to.
Great job
Very interesting
😊
thanks James.
Great stuff!
Thanks Mike!
I was looking forward to this video. Congrats on your trip. I can't believe someone couldn't rig up an extension cord for charging.
not gonna lie when the chapter title 'my thoughts' came up i was expecting your first thought to be 'i'm never doing this again' ;)
Lol
Well done James and team. You trail blazed the way but I honestly don't see an EV coach/bus becoming viable in the next 10yrs
The way you worded that, I must disagree. Many cities have successfully integrated electric buses into their systems. Utah alone has two systems that now use electric buses.
@@utahrailfan1946 Some but not all. I live in Milwaukee. MCTS has 15 NOVA electric buses for use on mostly one special route. Recently, they have had to park them and run diesel buses on this route. Seems the builder is concerned about these buses. No word on when they’ll be rolling again. I had a feeling there would be problems with these things.
2 take aways, cost per mile and time!
These are huge issues for any tour operator.
I can see real problems for a company trying to take trips into any national park which is common for most companies!
Wow!
awesome vid a wild one indeed
I'm curious to know what the range would have been with a full passenger and luggage load.
The charging network needs a lot of work if EVs (including trucks & buses) are going to be mainstream.
CCS network stink bigly. tesla network makes it easier than gas when it comes to filling up.
love the star trek clips
When calculating price per mile for charging, did you factor in the free charging sessions and other discounts you received from electrify America…because normally you wouldn’t have received these discounts
Good question. Yes I did.
Great experiment, thank you and others for this. So with the proper and well maintained charging infrastructure it can work.
Also, what is behind the battery charging profile ? With this size, charging could be 30-40% faster without the overheating that some cars suffer from.
I just read an article about Ford's CEO taking a F-150 all electric pick up truck cross country. Spoiler Alert- He had the same result's as you! Now he's re-thinking the whole EV thing!
A great video as always. Also very eye-opening to all the flaws in the charging networks that do exist in a rather rudimentary form... Only Tesla seems to be on its game at least here in Western Canada where you can comfortably cover almost all of Alberta (the settled part of it anyway), BC, Saskatchewan and Manitoba now with super-fast chargers. The rest you are lucky to scout out a crap level 2 charger attached to a Town Hall but that's about it. It's a real shame the federal government didn't partner with Petro-Canada directly to install its charger network beyond the single system that connects Vancouver to Toronto to install them everywhere since the formerly government owned oil company is still in almost every town and city nation wide...
Economic viability. That's why
Sales rep- “Good afternoon Acme Electrical Supply, how can I help you?”
James- “Yes, good morning it’s James from motor coach world, I’m looking for a CCS male/female extension cord”
Sales rep- “No problem James, how long of an extension cord do you need?”
James-“2900 miles”
Lol 😅
its too bad VanHool stopped making the TX buses and only do the low quality CX buses for North America. the CX is NOT a touring bus. It looks great and awesome but very uncomfortable for long trips. At least this TDX bus was a touring bus and had some comfort to it. My boss said hes not ordering anymore CX buses, hes going for MCI
Loved the honesty, your points in this video confirms everything I fear about having a electric car, people pulling out the wire, faulty chargers and distance between charges due to all the above. Was interesting when you said about the fuel/charge costs though, another reason not to go electric, Now saying that, would a hybrid be a better solution, use electric in say cities and the diseil for the highways?
Cars are easy because they don't have the weight and wind resistance of a bus. The car can tell you where the next chargers are and some (Tesla) can tell you if there are chargers out of service. Unless you are making a long distance trip, most car charging can be done at slower rates while at home overnight or at work. The public high speed chargers don't enter into that picture. For distance travel the public network will be necessary. If the vast majority of ones driving is 200 miles or less, it would make sense to own an EV and rent a gas/diesel car for distance driving if charging is a concern.
I'll stick with MCI, Thank you.
MCI has electric buses too though. 😊
Sounds like a huge exercise in frustration. With the current charging infrastructure I don't think I would even attempt such a trip without my own onboard generator.
Electrify America strikes again :( will be awesome to see this again in the future when either dedicated truck stops come online or if the manufacturers join up with Tesla on the heavy side like they did with cars. (Yes, there are currently only four permanent Tesla Semi Chargers and only two companies with the trucks but looking at where we are today vs when they started in 2012 and how they're currently opening two US sites a day adding truck stops won't be hard for that team)
Charging will be better with forthcoming MCS Megawatt Charging Standard for buses, trucks - and at proper charging islands. Sorry to hear about Proterra bankruptcy. Wondering if charger companies adopting NACS connector understand they're competing with best-of-class Supercharger net
Van Hool and partners need to do a deal with Tesla on charging - use megacharger
Seems it would of been better to keep a generator with a plug and just charge it that way. And/or have a full roof solar panel to help in charging.
Motorcoach World you very much for your videos I like coaches how much does a new coach cost like the neoplan skyliner or the van hool astromega
Can you get a 40 foot extension cord? That can seriously help with getting a parking spot and squeezing in a spot, and not pussing off other people.
Two things: why aren't all charging cables wrapped in white or silver (lite colour's) for reflecting extra heat...?
2nd: a simple Bluetooth to a phone setup to inform if the power stopped or was interrupted...very simple fixes/ mods...
Great Video... 😊
I believe Proterra is bankrupt, so hopefully this doesn't lead to future issues lol
Thanks for another awesome video, James. I dont think electric buses are quite ready for long distance travel as a commercial service.
And never will be. The cost of operation (cents per miles) plus who the heck is going to wait seven hours while the bus charges? But the point is, 7 hours with the vehicle empty. Put 48 passengers in there and you need to run the Aircon permanently to cool those bodies so 7 hours becomes 8 hours. No one, absolutely no one in their right minds will use these buses.
what was starlink like?
It was good to have it. It didn't handle some of my live streams but I think there because we were on the move. Otherwise it's just like any other WiFi hotspot
I would love to see you collaborate with yotuber Kyle Conners of Out of Spec motors. He would eat this up!
22 thousand pounds of batteries 😳that would be about the equivalent of 3140 gallons of diesel on board which would take a bus 3/4 of the way around the planet 🌏
It turns out that the battery pack weighs 9,000lbs, according to a post by a Proterra employee.
I would think, with all that tech the bus would be able to tell you if the charge has issues. As for the sabotage, there are locks you can get to prevent that. It like any lock, it only keeps an honest person out.
So how did the electric A/C work in the heat?
It worked great when it was working. But as we crossed the Arizona desert the AC stopped working. But it wasn't because the bus was all electric. The cause was a tripped breaker which could happen on any diesel bus as well
@@MotorcoachWorldand then you'd have to figure out why the breaker trip
@@adventureoflinkmk2 the breaker needed to be replaced which we got replaced in Casa Mesa at a ABC facility.
@@MotorcoachWorld good deal, glad to hear it was something minor
Like I said I kept up with this trip in bits n pieces so if you did mention it in a live stream or on your fb.. I blame my own incompetence and the algorithms
Outstanding recap! Thank you James for the hours upon hours you spend making these vlogs!
Does anyone find it a coincidence that Ford announced they would switch to the Tesla Charger standard while this trip took place? Musk was smart to control Tesla charging stations as it's obvious 3rd party charging stations are a disaster.
Do you also have a full vlog of the trip or is this the general overview?
Yes there will be a vlog on my other channel in a few weeks
I would rip out everything put in a diesel motor and call it a day lol
I seriously if years from now there will be some operators who grow to hate these and do just that. I would guess that the platform was designed to accept both versions anyway.
we really need governements thinking to add wireless charging lane to roads when they are due for maintenance.
Great review! where do you get your star trek snippets?
Thanks..I just cut them out of TH-cam clips
How often does Peoria Charter gets brand new buses?
VanHool should use Cummins-Accelera batteries
You forgot to mention Alabama while traveling I-10.