Just watched the episode, and me and a good friend have spent the last half an hour sending each other lists with crazy numbers of Eadbuttin' 'Ats in and laughing maniacally. He's putting them on chariots, I'm stacking them on Night Goblin Warbosses on giant cave Squigs. This is why I play Warhammer. Loved this episode. 🤣
When I started playing TOW I found it similar to Blood Bowl. Where it is necessary to string together a series of improbably successes to win. Dragons while difficult to handle, take their strength in points value from somewhere else in the army. Maybe not by much it would seem :). The answer, for me, was multiple Ogre Hunters with harpoons, while I may not kill the dragon, it does hamper them somewhat. In the 5 games so far, they have done well enough to inspire another mate to take them. If you think goblins on wolves are nice, I tried 3 on chariots with GW. This also is works. Thanks for the episode folks. I'll catch you in Canberra for CanCon if it's on and etc.. etc
It has been the same for my games against dragons shawn, have won against them 3 times, but basically didn't attack them at all during those games and just went to the rest of the points. THe hunters are really interesting, I had a game last night with 3 gorgers and they were amazing as well at cleaning up soft points. Cheers! (Dave)
I've wanted to run a glade captain with bsb, stag, terror banner, and the negative leadership trait. I don't think he would do great, but it would make someone cry, especially with other leadership debuffs.
Warning : impact hits use the unmodified strength of the mount / chariot when on a split profile. Eadbuttin At stacking works very well on a wyvern (S6) or a chariot (S5, even with a wolf chariot), but on any boar it's only strength 3.
The WE stag lord is interesting, but the damage output is going to be very low. A similar build can be made with a doombull, slug skin, bedazzling helm and rune of true beast. 6s to be hit by monster lords (typically WS7) and troops that are WS5 or lower. Lower mobility and poorer save at just 3+ AS, but T5 and W5, and with better damage output at 5 S6 attacks with potential AP-2 from Foe Render and 2 more attacks from Blood Greed.
Hes a really scary build! I think they are kinda doing different things, different roles though. The main power of the wood elf lord isn't just that he's tough, its that he gets to make a turn 1 charge against most enemies within the vanguarding sisters of the thorn and then run ruin around the backlines of an enemy army (making them either try to turn around and deal with it, or walk forward while it charges their units from the rear). Becasue the rest of the wood elf army wants to surround and chip damage off with ranged effects the stag lord doesn't need to do a huge amount of damage. The doom bull is a big scary full brick wall, thing really wants to get into it (though he is quite vulnerable to stomps from the big beasts who don't need to roll to hit and dragons will end him in about two rounds if they survive) but he doesn't have great ways to force mobile enemies to go into him, struggles a bit catching things due to blood greed and can become hard to manage once he gets frenzy. But is pretty terrifying deterrent for most enemies. Has he been able to get into the combats he wants much in your games?
Ooh, and the same lore has Plague of Rust, right, which goes super well with Witch Elves and the -1 AP banner? There might be more to this Dark Elf thing than the internet gives them credit for!
@@chriscousens111 You gave me the idea of the Double Death Hag... Here's my 1250 pts list. Don't know how to scale for 1500 and 2000. Dark Elves - Test - [1249pts] # Main Force [1249pts] ## Characters [580pts] Death Hag [145pts]: Two Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Ogre Blade Death Hag [130pts]: Two Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Dragon Slaying Sword Supreme Sorceress [305pts]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 4, Elementalism, Dark Pegasus, Hand Weapon, 3x Focus Familiar, Lore Familiar, Talisman Of Protection ## Core [373pts] Dark Riders [85pts]: Shield • 5x Dark Rider [80pts]: Dark Steed, Hand Weapon, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Light Armour Witch Elves [288pts]: • 22x Witch Elf [11pts]: Additional Hand Weapon, Hand Weapon • 1x Hag [7pts] • 1x Standard Bearer [32pts]: Banner Of Har Ganeth • 1x Musician [7pts] ## Special [296pts] Cold One Knights [241pts]: • 5x Cold One Knight [35pts]: Cold One, Hand Weapon, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield, Full Plate Armour • 1x Dread Knight [12pts]: Charmed Shield • 1x Standard Bearer [47pts]: Standard Of Slaughter • 1x Musician [7pts] Harpies [55pts]: • 5x Harpy [11pts]: Hand Weapon
@@baronkarza8612 Looks good - I don't love Cold One Knights, but that WE bunker is terrifying at 1250! I think for bigger points, you could put the Sorceror on a Dragon, add a BSB (with Warbanner) to the Cold Ones, and Warlocks are a really good unit.
For the first character you u can't use poisoned with magical weapons unfortunately. Really enjoy the alternative builds I think people have figured out the initial obvious good characters but there's plenty other options out there
Good catch on poison your absolutely right, too bad for the ghoul king. Keen to see what people come up with in the future really, there is still a lot of potential for fun builds to go.
As a bretonnian player I don't think I ever had problems with killing dragons. (Except the odd elf lord on Dragon) just super easy to kill them with either the dragon slaying sword or the virtue that gives my Bretonnian duke killing blow and monster slayer. Even as orcs I usually just magic missile them to death. I think people just have to learn to to kite dragons or just ignore them to kill the rest of the opponents army
Brets definitely have about as good a chance as any to do it. Most armies don't have as good a way to get a mobile enough character with Monster Slayer with enough attacks and enough WS to likely kill it. Orcs also have great tricks like you say (itchy nuisance goes an awful long way), but I think most armies are going to be kiting them and zoning them out. Haven't lost to them yet, but they are real bullies against opponents who don't know how to play into them, and I think a bit demoralising to some people who hate the idea that you have to accept you can't kill 1/3 of an opponent's army.
After listening to the podcast for the first time I was disappointed. So many different builds and all of them weak against the dragon meta. It's like you have answer to all the problems that we don't have and none to the one we do. After sleeping over it, I love all the ideas and I want to try some of them. Of course not in any competitive environment 🐉 Final conclusion is that I was just hoping for a savior against the dragon terror and the truth is that there is none. We must just learn to stop feeding the dragon.
Hey glad you had a listen, like we say, they aren't combat answers to the dragon (though a think a few of them are good against a dragon match by killing things other than the dragon, and being tricky for the dragon to catch). We did another episode on countering dragons specifically, although the answers there are not often to go fight the dragon, but ways to get the win without being able to touch the big beast (outside of a handful of things so far that can like the vampire scream list, fanatics with a plague of rust and itchy nuisance, a few rare characters with the monsters slayer sword). How much have the dragons been dominating the events your going to? I think locally they have been doing well, but not winning most events.
@@TheDwellersBelow Until now I have only played local hook up games almost every weekend and the dragons have been present and strong since we understood how strong they were. They are in every list for the armies that can take them. I will be playing end of june a two day - 5 game tournament on Dachau (Germany) at the end of june. lets see how it is there. I am located in switzerland and the community is rather small. I love the podcast by the way, always looking forward to the next episode.
@@gaztabollos Love to hear how you go, the dragons are really strong, to the extent that you largely can't kill them for most armies, but to use them well and get points they do take a lot of skill and some of the more competitive lists are very efficient and killing them (like vampires). They are a problem, and need a nerf for sure but may not be as oppressive in an event context when the dragons are having to fight other dragons a lot?
Yeah your headbutting harry orc interpretation is not how it actually plays. It's pretty clear as day and well written but how you read it is so far wrong it hurts. Yes, you can take as many hats as you want, but the "Eadbuttin 'At" does not give you 6 individual Impact Hits as you say, each hat gives you the rule as follows: "An Eadbuttin' 'At gives its wearer the Impact hits (1) special rule." So 1 hat gives you the Impact Hits (1) special rule. A second hat gives you the Impact Hits (1) special rule...but you already have that special rule so second and subsequent edbuttin at's are not giving you separate impact hits you are getting the same rule, not Impact Hits 1+1+1+1+1+1 as you seem to believe. The magic item does not give you all these extra impact hits. Each hat just gives you the same rule "Impact Hits (1)". I'm disappointed in this channel for not actually reading the rules for this and correcting the stupidity of incorrectrly reading the magic items' rule and embracing the old adage 'if wishes could be horses we'd all be eating steak.' Please, in the future, before you just do a cast, review all your stuff together before you start saying it and saying it like it is how stuff plays when reading the actual rules of items. Again saying that "This is how Gamesworkshop wants you to play it allowing you to wear more then one hat" does not change the fact the hat in question gives you a singular special rule and you assuming it stacks when it clearly is written as not, does not make it a true thing no matter how awesome you think it is.
"Unless noted otherwise, if the effect of a special rule in some way alters a characteristic, the result of a dice roll, or any other value (such as a model’s armour value), that effect is cumulative. This means that the effects of duplicate versions of the same rule combine together, increasing its effect. For example, if a model is under the effects of a spell that grants it Armour Bane (2) and carries a weapon that has Armour Bane (1), the model would be considered to have Armour Bane (3)" p.165 Old World Rulebook
Sorry to hear your not enjoying the focus of it, most of us are tournament players and enjoy that side of things. There will be things in the future with a different focus, but we do enjoy playing within the ruleset to see what is possible.
I would refuse to play someone taking more than two hats on a character 🤦🏻♂️ as thats just some OTT gamey shit! and playing that person is just not going to be fun! also if they have more than one hat .. i want to see it on the miniature so it at least feels a bit less gamey
Just watched the episode, and me and a good friend have spent the last half an hour sending each other lists with crazy numbers of Eadbuttin' 'Ats in and laughing maniacally. He's putting them on chariots, I'm stacking them on Night Goblin Warbosses on giant cave Squigs.
This is why I play Warhammer. Loved this episode. 🤣
Bring on the new headbutthat meta! Cant wait to see a horde of bare bones goblin heroes running head first into the enemy.
When I started playing TOW I found it similar to Blood Bowl. Where it is necessary to string together a series of improbably successes to win. Dragons while difficult to handle, take their strength in points value from somewhere else in the army. Maybe not by much it would seem :). The answer, for me, was multiple Ogre Hunters with harpoons, while I may not kill the dragon, it does hamper them somewhat. In the 5 games so far, they have done well enough to inspire another mate to take them. If you think goblins on wolves are nice, I tried 3 on chariots with GW. This also is works. Thanks for the episode folks. I'll catch you in Canberra for CanCon if it's on and etc.. etc
It has been the same for my games against dragons shawn, have won against them 3 times, but basically didn't attack them at all during those games and just went to the rest of the points. THe hunters are really interesting, I had a game last night with 3 gorgers and they were amazing as well at cleaning up soft points. Cheers! (Dave)
I've wanted to run a glade captain with bsb, stag, terror banner, and the negative leadership trait. I don't think he would do great, but it would make someone cry, especially with other leadership debuffs.
Been interested to see this run, It feels like a quite hard work to pull off, but would be brutal if you could.
Warning : impact hits use the unmodified strength of the mount / chariot when on a split profile. Eadbuttin At stacking works very well on a wyvern (S6) or a chariot (S5, even with a wolf chariot), but on any boar it's only strength 3.
Ah, I was thinking it was the model wearing the hat. Makes the boar option worse but the Wyvern option even better!
The WE stag lord is interesting, but the damage output is going to be very low. A similar build can be made with a doombull, slug skin, bedazzling helm and rune of true beast. 6s to be hit by monster lords (typically WS7) and troops that are WS5 or lower. Lower mobility and poorer save at just 3+ AS, but T5 and W5, and with better damage output at 5 S6 attacks with potential AP-2 from Foe Render and 2 more attacks from Blood Greed.
Hes a really scary build! I think they are kinda doing different things, different roles though. The main power of the wood elf lord isn't just that he's tough, its that he gets to make a turn 1 charge against most enemies within the vanguarding sisters of the thorn and then run ruin around the backlines of an enemy army (making them either try to turn around and deal with it, or walk forward while it charges their units from the rear). Becasue the rest of the wood elf army wants to surround and chip damage off with ranged effects the stag lord doesn't need to do a huge amount of damage. The doom bull is a big scary full brick wall, thing really wants to get into it (though he is quite vulnerable to stomps from the big beasts who don't need to roll to hit and dragons will end him in about two rounds if they survive) but he doesn't have great ways to force mobile enemies to go into him, struggles a bit catching things due to blood greed and can become hard to manage once he gets frenzy. But is pretty terrifying deterrent for most enemies. Has he been able to get into the combats he wants much in your games?
Big fan of the Death Hag with Ogre Blade in a Witch Elves unit. Don't forget to cast Earthen Ramparts on them. The anvil you don't expect ; )
Ooh, and the same lore has Plague of Rust, right, which goes super well with Witch Elves and the -1 AP banner? There might be more to this Dark Elf thing than the internet gives them credit for!
@@chriscousens111
You gave me the idea of the Double Death Hag... Here's my 1250 pts list. Don't know how to scale for 1500 and 2000.
Dark Elves - Test - [1249pts]
# Main Force [1249pts]
## Characters [580pts]
Death Hag [145pts]: Two Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Ogre Blade
Death Hag [130pts]: Two Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Dragon Slaying Sword
Supreme Sorceress [305pts]: Hand Weapon, General, Wizard Level 4, Elementalism, Dark Pegasus, Hand Weapon, 3x Focus Familiar, Lore Familiar, Talisman Of Protection
## Core [373pts]
Dark Riders [85pts]: Shield
• 5x Dark Rider [80pts]: Dark Steed, Hand Weapon, Cavalry Spear, Hand Weapon, Light Armour
Witch Elves [288pts]:
• 22x Witch Elf [11pts]: Additional Hand Weapon, Hand Weapon
• 1x Hag [7pts]
• 1x Standard Bearer [32pts]: Banner Of Har Ganeth
• 1x Musician [7pts]
## Special [296pts]
Cold One Knights [241pts]:
• 5x Cold One Knight [35pts]: Cold One, Hand Weapon, Hand Weapon, Lance, Shield, Full Plate Armour
• 1x Dread Knight [12pts]: Charmed Shield
• 1x Standard Bearer [47pts]: Standard Of Slaughter
• 1x Musician [7pts]
Harpies [55pts]:
• 5x Harpy [11pts]: Hand Weapon
@@baronkarza8612 Looks good - I don't love Cold One Knights, but that WE bunker is terrifying at 1250! I think for bigger points, you could put the Sorceror on a Dragon, add a BSB (with Warbanner) to the Cold Ones, and Warlocks are a really good unit.
For the first character you u can't use poisoned with magical weapons unfortunately.
Really enjoy the alternative builds I think people have figured out the initial obvious good characters but there's plenty other options out there
Good catch on poison your absolutely right, too bad for the ghoul king. Keen to see what people come up with in the future really, there is still a lot of potential for fun builds to go.
As a bretonnian player I don't think I ever had problems with killing dragons. (Except the odd elf lord on Dragon) just super easy to kill them with either the dragon slaying sword or the virtue that gives my Bretonnian duke killing blow and monster slayer. Even as orcs I usually just magic missile them to death. I think people just have to learn to to kite dragons or just ignore them to kill the rest of the opponents army
Brets definitely have about as good a chance as any to do it. Most armies don't have as good a way to get a mobile enough character with Monster Slayer with enough attacks and enough WS to likely kill it. Orcs also have great tricks like you say (itchy nuisance goes an awful long way), but I think most armies are going to be kiting them and zoning them out. Haven't lost to them yet, but they are real bullies against opponents who don't know how to play into them, and I think a bit demoralising to some people who hate the idea that you have to accept you can't kill 1/3 of an opponent's army.
Have yall heard of the dark elf master with Wizarding had on a cold one? Two stupidities don't stack :P
Stupid + stupid = profit
After listening to the podcast for the first time I was disappointed. So many different builds and all of them weak against the dragon meta. It's like you have answer to all the problems that we don't have and none to the one we do.
After sleeping over it, I love all the ideas and I want to try some of them. Of course not in any competitive environment 🐉
Final conclusion is that I was just hoping for a savior against the dragon terror and the truth is that there is none. We must just learn to stop feeding the dragon.
Hey glad you had a listen, like we say, they aren't combat answers to the dragon (though a think a few of them are good against a dragon match by killing things other than the dragon, and being tricky for the dragon to catch). We did another episode on countering dragons specifically, although the answers there are not often to go fight the dragon, but ways to get the win without being able to touch the big beast (outside of a handful of things so far that can like the vampire scream list, fanatics with a plague of rust and itchy nuisance, a few rare characters with the monsters slayer sword).
How much have the dragons been dominating the events your going to? I think locally they have been doing well, but not winning most events.
@@TheDwellersBelow Until now I have only played local hook up games almost every weekend and the dragons have been present and strong since we understood how strong they were. They are in every list for the armies that can take them. I will be playing end of june a two day - 5 game tournament on Dachau (Germany) at the end of june. lets see how it is there. I am located in switzerland and the community is rather small. I love the podcast by the way, always looking forward to the next episode.
@@gaztabollos Love to hear how you go, the dragons are really strong, to the extent that you largely can't kill them for most armies, but to use them well and get points they do take a lot of skill and some of the more competitive lists are very efficient and killing them (like vampires). They are a problem, and need a nerf for sure but may not be as oppressive in an event context when the dragons are having to fight other dragons a lot?
Yeah your headbutting harry orc interpretation is not how it actually plays. It's pretty clear as day and well written but how you read it is so far wrong it hurts.
Yes, you can take as many hats as you want, but the "Eadbuttin 'At" does not give you 6 individual Impact Hits as you say, each hat gives you the rule as follows:
"An Eadbuttin' 'At gives its wearer the Impact hits (1) special rule."
So 1 hat gives you the Impact Hits (1) special rule.
A second hat gives you the Impact Hits (1) special rule...but you already have that special rule so second and subsequent edbuttin at's are not giving you separate impact hits you are getting the same rule, not Impact Hits 1+1+1+1+1+1 as you seem to believe. The magic item does not give you all these extra impact hits. Each hat just gives you the same rule "Impact Hits (1)".
I'm disappointed in this channel for not actually reading the rules for this and correcting the stupidity of incorrectrly reading the magic items' rule and embracing the old adage 'if wishes could be horses we'd all be eating steak.'
Please, in the future, before you just do a cast, review all your stuff together before you start saying it and saying it like it is how stuff plays when reading the actual rules of items.
Again saying that "This is how Gamesworkshop wants you to play it allowing you to wear more then one hat" does not change the fact the hat in question gives you a singular special rule and you assuming it stacks when it clearly is written as not, does not make it a true thing no matter how awesome you think it is.
"Unless noted otherwise, if the effect of a special rule in some way alters a characteristic, the result of a dice roll, or any other value (such as a model’s armour value), that effect is cumulative. This means that the effects of duplicate versions of the same rule combine together, increasing its effect.
For example, if a model is under the effects of a spell that grants it Armour Bane (2) and carries a weapon that has Armour Bane (1), the model would be considered to have Armour Bane (3)" p.165 Old World Rulebook
I've been disappointed to see the focus this channel has on broken lists/builds/etc.
Sorry to hear your not enjoying the focus of it, most of us are tournament players and enjoy that side of things. There will be things in the future with a different focus, but we do enjoy playing within the ruleset to see what is possible.
I would refuse to play someone taking more than two hats on a character 🤦🏻♂️ as thats just some OTT gamey shit! and playing that person is just not going to be fun!
also if they have more than one hat .. i want to see it on the miniature so it at least feels a bit less gamey
Hats off to full magic item what you see is what you can get modeling every time.
Well, the FAQ does say that multiple hats is absolutely allowed... as long as they're modelled on!