Xbox 360 power supply - schematic, waveforms & treacherous probes
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ม.ค. 2022
- Further exploring the 175W Xbox 360 switching power supply from the previous episode. It's a frequency modulated LLC resonant power supply with a MOSFET half-bridge driven by IRS2153D chip. I explain the reverse engineered schematic, I show a lot of waveforms on my OWON SDS1102 oscilloscope and I have to face some problems with its probes.
The previous episode:
• What's inside Xbox 360...
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I can’t express how much I appreciate the enormous effort you take to reverse engineer these power supplies to show us the schematics.
Thank you very much! 🙏
This is really interesting and well explained. Hope you keep doing videos like this.
May every educator be able to explain things in this excellent way. Highest respect, huge thanks!
12:55 That's 💯% Danyk™
Now power factor correction and variable-frequency voltage regulation circuits make sense. Thanks for the excellent explanation!
IR2153! That's why I am a power electronics engineer today. Because of you and your resonant inverter for induction heating as my first hobby electronic project. Thanks Danyk!
Wonderful stuff! Hearing stuff like this adds an extra level of greatness to this channel!
Amazing :) I'm glad it helped you! ;)
I'm more impressed with the dot matrix printer paper
Nice new oscilloscope. Great video! Thank you! 🤗 13:03 I agree with you dear cat.😊
I came for the CAT but stayed for the education The realization of (2) !! defective ground clips is unbelievable and worth the price of admission right there.
“The oscillator of the chip is actually very similar to using a 555 oscillator like this”
Gives a new dimension to the noob quote from your website: _“i didnt have any ir2153s at home so i put a 555. they both have 8pin so no problem right? why doesnt work and chip smoking?”_ (cited loosely from the FAQ page)
Of course it will work, like adding salt to your tea, which looks the same as sugar, as they look the same !
@@teslakovalaborator I see you read the page as well :)
Bloody hellllllll! Keysight, get this man a proper scope.
That "floating" thing is typically called a bootstrap and is in fact not floating. It needs a little higher voltage than the supply voltage just to open that mosfet. This is obtained using that bootstrap capacitor. It is charged when output goes to lower side via the bootstrap diode and then, when the output goes to higher side, the bootstrap capacitor is rised by the output to get a little bit higher voltage than is on the higher side just to keep the higher side mosfet open in saturation. If this fails, the higher side mosfet is unable to fully open resulting in voltage drop, which implies power drop on that poor mosfet resulting in its death. So checking bootstrap capacitor and bootstrap diode is absolute must when replacing dead mosfets.
Be careful when using "mathematics" on a digital storage oscilloscope, it could be a little bit tricky, especially when it comes to subtraction. If you want to get a difference between two channel on an analogue scope, it's pretty normal to use sutraction, but when it comes to digital one, it's much better to use differential probe doing this operation analog way. The problem is quantization error. If you have some small differential signal on a high common signal, then the input range and quantization error is determined by the high common signal. Then, after a subtraction done computing way, it results in small differential signal with huge quantization error showing steps that in reality does not exist. On top of that all, they are typically smoothed by sinc(x) approximation. In fact, never trust a DSO when you see steps or something like sinc(x).
That probe failure was…well…astonishing. Never seen something like this before.
I do not agree with you. Here the high side drive is float on the source of upper MOSFET. Both the words "floating" and "bootstrap" can be used here.
@@daveamerion8177 "bootstrap" is heavily overloaded. Multiple usages within every niche area of power electronics. You can totally have a "bootstrapped charge pump with bootstrapped high-side fet driver and bootstrap capacitor powered by bootstrap circuit". I just avoid the term.
Being familiar with LLC topology, i see this is the LLC done in the easiest way, works well but doesn't truly exploit all the performance benefits of topology.
Can you please tell us what are those?
Also is the ripple is supposed to be that bad? I thought that LLC is inherently lower ripple due to soft switching.
@@isoslow its mostly related to the transient phases such as startup phase LLC during startup tends to go into hardswitching for few cycles. Then the deadtime control in this particular circuit sound a bit high. There is no doubt the converter would maintain ZVS for defined load range but the performance of power supply vs variations in line voltage would not be that great because of lond term operation above and below resonace frequency.
I'm sure a lot of people watching this have considered using this PSU as a general purpose bench 12v power supply. I had a look at the 203 watt version which monitors voltage drop across the output cable to regulate the voltage reaching the Xbox. To a small degree this can be used to lift the output volts slightly - this is covered elsewhere on the internet.
Today, I tried to modify the 203 watts version to something between 13 and 14 volts for my radios, but it did not work. Whatever I do, I keep getting only 12.2 Volts. Could you push me to the right direction please?
Scope probes with (especially intermittent) problems can really ruin your day. And that is a PPFC. Poor Power Factor Correction 😅 Nice video! Never saw the frequency being modified this way in a smps before..
Enjoyed this scope work on this video. SMPS were fricken magic to me 20 years ago and I just could not grasp how they worked. Love your detailed discussion of these. Nice donation too.
Incredible! Two consecutive videos showing things that I have. First the XBox PSU and now those 2.1 speakers! 🙂 Looking forward for the next video.
As always great video and explanations! We can always learn from your videos! Thanks a lot!
It's been a while since I saw a power supply expert knows something about aliasing.
man, i learnt so much from this video, i have to play it over a few times
a great examination and explanation of a well built psu, thank you! really looking forward to the logitech z333 speakers shown at the end. those are imo some of the best sounding pc speakers but the flimsy speakers cables are easily damaged and the volume potentiometer tends to get noisy after a year or two of use. owned 3 of them and they all had one or both of these problems.
This is such a great video. As an engineer it is so great to have someone who clearly knows more than me explaining something.
thanks for sharing knowledge Daniel
Very nicely done! I would still recommend using the dedicated ground clip on the probe, other wise it will look good on the screen but when you're not using the actual ground clip you are bypassing the lower inductance path which can cause issues when using the probe.
Great video as always.
Definitely leaning from you. Many Thanks
It seems that the linear mode of the feedback opto helps in varying the effective resistance of the RC timing for a wider switching frequency range which otherwise would have not been possible by simply switching a resistor in parallel with main R of the timer.
10:54 it's actually sensing the current, I've already seen it in some other LLC control chips and it's a bit dodgy because the capacitor impedence changes with the frequency and so the voltage across it... By now I don't remember the name of a chip which uses the same technique but as soon as I get it I'll post it there
L6599 also uses the same technique. You can check in the datasheet figure 31
@@AlexAlex-sc7pzAnother example is the UCC25600
Yes, you're probably right. It senses the current. The 100pF capacitor and the 100ohm resistor make a derivation cicruit. It measures the rate of voltage rise/fall on the resonant capacitor, which is proportional to the current. (It can also be explained as two parallel capacitors that share the current, and one has a current sensing resistor in series).
@@DiodeGoneWild yesss!
Very useful video.
I just rewatched this. Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh yes. I can't wait to see the speaker video. 😁😁
22:07 never heard anyone thank the aliasing before :D
13:06 look at the paper beneath those foods.
It turns out that mr Diode so good at drawing.
I didn't draw that ;)
Nice video thanks lithium packs are also equivalent for such in project but for charging Good 👍
There's nothing wrong with those ground wires. They show that insulation actually works. 😃
xD this transformer killed me :D
I had to laugh so much 😂
ein wertvolles video...herzlischen Dank.
Excellent
Good work
Another great video. Reverse engineering schematics is really a pain.......
There is some possibility to build a current sensing by using the resonance capacitor. The passive PCF is only possible because of the small input voltage range. For wide range input active PFC is recommended because LLC have mostly poor regulation range.
Very good project
First you think, a Playstation powersupply? Didn't i once repair such a thing? Whats still interesting about that? But you have to watch because it's the wild diodes channel and you don't want to miss a chance to learn something. And then it begins. First it's not a normal powersupply but a frequency regulated one, wich you only know while read about it. And then, Indeed after thirdteen minutes learning takes really on and you learn more practical usefull things you wish you had knewn that time you tried your best to reapair such things! (btw for designing circuits and much theoritical knowledge i learn from sambenyaakovs channel but for understanding also to reapair difficult existing circuits i cannot afford missing any wilddiode!)
Thank you boss
class video.
I haven't watched yet, but thumbs up clicked :-)
I bought a pack of alligator clip test leads recently, half the leads were open circuit just like the ones on your oscilliscope, crimped on their insulator.
Thanks man
I ordered a Rigol 1000Z oscilloscope a couple years ago and ended up with 8 replacement probes since all of the original ones had flaky 1/10X switches, most of the first replacement batch were flaky as well and one probe had the tip come off when removing the grabber attachment. Didn't take long for all of the new probes to become flaky either, so I gave up and only use them in 10X mode.
Thanks
I liked it
I could see a little solder on the tip of one of the strands of the second clip. Seems like it was just extremely poor QC from the factory.
I wonder if the "soldered" looking ground clip lead wire is actually melted from arcing due to the donor misusing it on mains...
At 18:00, is the yellow trace the output of the half bridge or the transistor drain-source? Thanks.
I bet the person that gave you the oscilloscope is pissed that it was just shitty made probes lol.
QUESTION: Would it be OK to add an inline fuse to the output leads on a Power Supply such as a Riden or any Lab type Power supply ?
How can I make this Xbox 360 power supply go up to 14 volts? I need a 14vdc, power supply. May be moding the 2 100pf capacitors and -or the 100 ohms resitor to change the resonating frequency? Thanks in advance.
Why is diode between the pin 1 and 8, this chip have a internal synchronyous rectifier?
this psu powers my brother's bathroom lights.. the psu he bought for it was not able to deliver few amps and we found the xbox one in his electric junk.. its like two years now..
Does anyone know WHY the newer XBox 360 power supplies stopped using a grounded power cord and there is no more grounding on the power supply? I am so confused. The older first edition power supplies have a grounded circuit board and grounded 3 pin power cord, but the newer revised models have no ground. I've been using a non-grounded 175W supply for 10 years, and it works fine, and I'm trying to understand why they made two different ones. Isn't it better to have a grounded supply? Does the grounded supply have less noise? I'm only using these power supplies for a lab "bench supply."
people let's goWILD and reach it to 500k subs ; let's go wohooooo
I wonder how to modify power supplu like this one to get 13,8V to 14,4 volts on the output?
Question - Why can't we just isolate the ossiloscope using isolation transformer. That way we will need less VA rating isolation transformer
No One Does it Like Diodegonewild..
21:10 shoudnt the zcs happen at full load? weirdly enought its happening at no load at 21:20 !
Hello Can you supply the IC for your inductor tester please?
I laughed so hard when the probes earthing little cables failure was discovered. What a super-bad craftsmanship. Bloody Hell !
Don't buy Owon. I have an SDS 7102, and it is bad also. The front panel has contact issues, the software sometimes glitching. Maybe fine for indicating, but not worth the price. An used Tek is way better than a new this.
Where is the second L in the parallel RLC resonant network?
please inverter transformer circuit diagram
*Amazing oscilloscope probs clips 👏🏼👏🏼😀😀😀😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂*
That's how we learn something new..
Hi, have you tried to modify the 12v output to 14v to make a 12v battery charger?
Ya le pregunte hace un año lo mismo y nadie respondió. Saludos Jose.
Thanks to IR2153. There is no GDT transformer.
I have a question...
Whenever there is no electricity, we use inverter for house power backup. And its not pure sinewave inverter, as all ceiling fans start humming when running on inverter.
But whenever I plug my laptop charger in, the ceiling fan hum decreases drastically. Why is that so? Does it mean the laptop charger has APFC? or passive one?
My guess is the class X interference suppression capacitors in your laptop adapter are damping the transients from your inverter.
I don’t think there’s any PFC :)
Where is the TL431 with the 2 resistances to create the 12V ?
I have a project to make a power suply xbox360 ajustable voltage with a potentiometer of 20K, can you help me ?
I have an X360 power brick (dumpster find along a RROD failed console), but I recall it was rated at over 200 W. Can somebody more experienced with Xboxes confirm?
DiodeGoneWild cute content
last famous words : bloody hell 😁👍
Can you please explain the part with optocouler & bridge rectifier+R feedback, how does it DECREASE frequency instead of increasing it? Also doesn't diode voltage drops bodge that circuit operation? Really interesting feedback solution.
The _optocoupler_ increases the frequency. Like a standard PSU the opto's LED is brighter the lower the load is.
@@eDoc2020 however it reallity here it is decreased as measurements show!
@@papanyanz Look again, the waveform is slower when the light bulbs are added.
@@eDoc2020 yes slower means decreased frequency, however if you are familiar how these kind of chips operate and also how author states it's connected that should work exactly opposite way... unless theres something interesting on the transformers secondary side circuitry.
@@papanyanz If load is added the output voltage drops slightly, so the LED turns off, removing the extra resistor, slowing the oscillator. I don't see how this is opposite. You need to remember the optocoupler's LED changes the _opposite_ direction of the amount of load.
Hi, ist es möglich eine Spannungsanhebung vorzunehmen?
Ich hätte gerne am Ausgang 13.8V
😂😊
Knowing the number of these psu units made and keeping in mind it's Microsoft, I do believe they were petty sure what they are doing. Still, surprisingly complicated device.
The PCB says _HIPRO,_ which is an OEM company providing power supplies, at least I saw an HP PDA charger made by them. Seems like they are experts in the field. Or at least were in the 2000s.
This is not a Microsoft design
If Microsoft would make PSUs like they make Windows... Then it would be better to throw it away and NEVER EVER plug it into outlet :D
@@vaclavtrpisovsky HIPRO make Laptop-chargers for Acer Aspire models (and maybe other brands). That are very solid PSUs. Never had a problem with they.
@@gumpi5 The idea of a Microsoft PSU... :) The power supply would say a welcome message when you plug it in, and keep asking if you need help every few minutes. After a few days, it would demand that you log into your Microsoft account and register it to keep using the filtering capacitors. In a few months, it would offer a free upgrade to a model that has a fancier case but lower current rating and a missing -12V line. Eventually, you click a random link and you and your PC get electrocuted by mains.
I had very similar problem with my oscilloscope. I connected the probe to the primary side instead of secondary side by mistake. I realized it after like 5 seconds. Oscilloscope worked fine after that. But later on the oscilloscope behaved strangely. I figured out that ground lead on the probe is broken. I cannot fix it because it is a solid piece of rubber, i have Rigol oscilloscope. So I ordered 5pcs of some noname replacement ground leads on aliexpress. Is this a common problem when ground lead is connected to high voltage? I expected that it will damage oscilloscope channel itself, not just ground lead of the probe. I don't complain :) I'm just curious.
The weakest link will die, the ground probe is fairly thin, then goes into a thick shielded wire, then into the thick metal case of the oscilloscope, which is well connected back to mains earth.
Hey, something is changed in youtube, its not showing your videos in my feed.
I still like the russian scope!!!
Do you want to build your own switch mode power supply?
He has already made some :P danyk.cz/index_en.html
Mám takové podezření že ty osciloskopické sondy jsou trochu odfláknuté výrobcem.
Cat gone missing or it was exchanged for the scope? No video is complete without cat's comments.
the cat is at 13:02 ;)
And ONE YEAR LATER.... No response to the question "How can I make this Xbox 360 power supply go up to 14 volts? " This power supp. its not typical switching, is frequency regulated, so changing the capacitance instead of resistance ??!!!
*went check my probes
Lol I had those speakers you got donated... they suck. Please do a high voltage test with them.
Polish transformer 😁
Well done (as always). There are many of that early Xbox 360 PSU among people. What about to repurpose this PSU to variable CC/CV bench power supply? 16 A is a good start as well as independent power supply for switching chip and secondary symmetrical winding.
where are keysight for the love of god 😂 can we tag them somehow ?
13:43 uhm... Those probes needs some calibration, man..
I think that your old oscilooscopes are better
yeah ANALOG has its uses at times
Soviet analog one in some ways yes, but not that horrible handheld trash. So you are wrong.
@@igrewold Not the analog one, he had a Tek digital scope that was quite good. Better than this Owon IMO.
@@isoslow
th-cam.com/video/JXXHqM6RzZQ/w-d-xo.html
iLikeALitleAdvancedStuff.
You need to PROBE a bit deeper into this.
i want to buy your cat...
I saw exactly the same probe issue in another video on I think Rigol probes the other day. Check your probes !
make a plasma lighter from trash
Wow, I have plan to buy and searching for xbox360 on market place and suddenly your video tells about its psu. Do you spy on me? 😅