That YSi is a sweet unit and I would seriously not unload it if I were you! These centrifugal superchargers are quite efficient. 10 psi is completely streetable on pump gas especially in your climate! My project ‘91 is getting an S-trim with likely 12-14 psi in end and will run on 93 with possible meth injection. Done it before and it’s fine. Proper tune is a must of course and no high static compression either. This is best for a 9:1ish motor. My ‘93 Cobra has an Incon 800TT setup with the lay flat intercooler. It’s effective and packaged nicely but working on anything underneath and forward of engine is a pain. Air to water charge coolers are quite effective - the limiting factor is generally the effectiveness of the radiator that dumps the heat back out to ambient and the capacitance of the system - they get heat soaked because of these two factors. Higher IAT’s will equate to less power generally speaking via reduction in spark advance but if max power isn’t your issue and you’ve got a solid tune then leave well enough alone. Methanol is a nice easy addition for peace of mind. Full disclosure I develop this stuff for a living for an automaker we’re both familiar with. 😉
Hey @elementl1166, I totally agree that the YSI should stay where it is. I will likely mock up a model of an air to air, and as an alternative (just dreaming here), I would love to develop an air to water manifold, something like the Vortech Igloo, just a shorter version. From the China wall to the bottom of my hood, I have about 11-1/2 -12 inches of room (I also have an old hood I can experiment with putting a mild "bump" in the center as I don't want to run a cowl hood), so although it would be tight, there is room to work. A 12"L,10"W, 3" thick air to water core might work, and still have room for a passenger side fed intake lid (like the Vortech Igloo). I wish Holley would just make a "Low Ram" 351W intake lol, but that would be too easy... Thanks for your comments and suggestions!!! Greatly appreciated!!!
6 in one half dozen in the other. Problem with the question is that there a far too many variables to say one is better than the other. Material choice/thickness, fin density, core thickness, face area, tube or plate geometry, turbulated vs no turbulators, and so on. Bar plate are generally heavier and tougher relatively speaking. One can be made to perform better than the other for heat transfer and vice versa. Have to consider charge air pressure drop as well. Always ideal to compare data but aftermarket usually doesn’t provide data so it’s a bit of a gamble/cram the biggest core you can fit. All in all you’re going to likely see some benefit on the street just a matter of how much. I personally wouldn’t do it just because the effort isn’t worth the payoff when you’re already happy with the current power level. I do agree those old Vortech Mondo air water coolers look mean. If you could do something shorter it would be neat to see. I actually built and tested an integrated air water cooler into an upper intake manifold (cut flange off an old Performer RPM upper intake) and that sat on a porter lower RPM. It cleared a 4” cowl. Ran it with a T Trim on my old ‘91. It was part of a senior design project when I got my engineering degree nearly 25 years ago. If you have the old issue it’s featured in the August 2004 edition of 5.0 Mustangs and Fast Fords. Look for Murphy’s Law
Hello@@elementl1166 , Thanks for taking the time for your comment. I really am not worried about how much power I have a this point. However, I feel its just "a good idea" to cool down the intake charge no matter how fast or slow I drive it. I think for my current boost level, and even if it was bumped up to 10 psi, the style of intercooler would likely not be as crucial as if I was running 15+psi. Any sort of intercooling would be a win win. I'm going to try and design two systems. One that can be easily done (air to air), and in my spare time, I'll likely dabble with an air to water (even if it takes me a couple years in my spare time). And, I will most certainly pull out Aug 2004 of 5.0 Mustangs and Fast Fords. I hope I still have the issue...Cheers! Thanks again!
Hey Todd! Your 86 is awesome!! I was going to suggest Meth Injection, but sounds like you’ve already experienced that before!! Honestly Pro Charger May be the way to go! The Rustic Fox has a manual rack and it is a beast to turn at slow speeds! I am thinking on putting the power steering back in or running a drag setup with skinnies up front!
let me help yo out here boss. The goal is to maximize the amount of air you can fill in the cylinder. Your supercharger is helping out with that but your main problem now would be the lack of energy usable from the air supercharged into the combustion chamber. An intercooler will help gain more energy out of the same air you are pushing in already. It will make it more dense, making it more steady and tunable to a certain degree. Like you said any supercharger system and or turbo system needs a intercooler or else you may be admitting heated air which is no bueno for performance and tuned engines.
Hey @brianbravo923, Thanks so much for commenting, and for watching! I just have to decide air to air, or air to water, and make good use of my limited underhood space. Thanks again!👍👍
Vortech's AFTERCOOLER worked GREAT on my '93 Cobra. It fit well, and kept IAT's in check. Ran it with T-trim for 5 summers in Texas blasting the AC. The kit was pricey at the time, but cry once and enjoy long after.
Hello there! I do think the Aftercooler is a good idea, I just think for my displacement, it might be a bit small. It absolutely sits in a perfect place, and wish I had a bit more room. Your climate would definitely put it to the test! Thanks so much for your input. It always gives me things to think about! Greatly appreciated!!!
@@306foxbody1 should be a good talk with Vortech about the displacement. I had a 347 at the time and I ran a 70/30 water/anti-freeze mix. I'd like to use a Ysi someday. The old P600b had more of a "paddle wheel" compressor wheel. Much like the A-trim of the Vortechs. The F1 would be an awesome setup if you went back with Pro Charger. Maybe I could talk you out of the Ysi.....🤔😂
@@arturozarate1752 Yes, the P600B just had the straight cut impeller blades, and the YSI has more technology in it. An F1 would be sweet on this car, especially with the bigger displacement. I was just concerned that the Vortech Aftercooler might not have enough volume to feed a 427. At least I have all winter to decide lol! So far, I think I want to make the YSI work...but yes, and F1 would be great! LOL
I love that car Todd. Definitely leave the bumper cover alone. Anything to keep less piping. Very nice boost unit there! I hope to go that route in the future. I liked the info on the rear control arms. I’ve got my diff to do, it has horrible stock gears. I’ll need control arms at that point. Thanks! 👊😎✌️
Hey Rick...I definitely will never cut into the air dam or bumper cover...no matter what. I want to work around everything as much as possible. As far as gears, I really like 3.73s if you don't see much highway use, and 3.55, to me, is a nice all around gear. But everyone has their preference. Thanks for watching!!👍👍
Hi Donald, Looking back, if I could do it all over again, I would have built a 331 and kept my old P600B. My goal isn't really to make more power, just to make the car safer on pump gas, and good to go for the odd blast through the gears... Thanks for watching!!
Hey Todd, the 86 is still looking amazing, excited to see what you come up with for the charge cooling! I have those southside side machine (I think lakewood bought them) bars, and while I haven't been able to actually drive on them in decades I remember them being really helpful for track traction. Really looking forward to seeing what you do with the rear suspension as well. Thanks for sharing!
Would it be possible to rotate that Holley intake to face forward or to the drivers side? If it would it would sure help reduce the plumbing required. Here's my idea: run a tight 180 bend off the blower so the charge pipe can can run down the passenger side to the front mounted intercooler. The air flows through the FMIC to the drivers side then back up to the throttle body. Idea # 2: Methanol injection would be the simplest solution and you already have a bung in the perfect spot for the nozzle on the blower outlet.. It won't lower your charge temps while cruising but will certainly bring them down under boost and prevent detonation. Buy a quality kit with a controller and braided lines, run a 50/50 mix with water (pure methanol is harder on parts), rebuild the pump every 3 years and you should never have any issues.
Hey Bryce! I was looking at the car this morning, and that is definitely what I had in mind (In the video, when I was talking about running the pipe across the top of the engine in front of the elbow, I knew that would already be a hot mess lol!). I think if the intake elbow faces the drivers side, that would work just fine. I'll likely mock it up just to see how it looks, and go from there. The Meth kit is definitely also a great idea, especially as you know how wonderful our fuel is around here...lol Thanks for your input!!!
Chemical intercooling! Run a progressive methanal injection system. Start it off at 4psi. Run 50/50 water to meth ratio. Methyl hydrate from your local home centre does the trick! Edit*. Run the 50/50 with the small vortech air-to-water setup and you’ll be in good shape.
Hey there! Did you have a Procharger on your Vette? Or was it a Vortech with meth? I never really got to see that car up close...but I heard it was a beast!!! LOL
@@306foxbody1 it was a procharger f1a 94mm. The setup also ran the c5 procharger air to air intercooler plus a snow progressive meth kit where a 50/50 water to meth mix was ran. Car was tuned on 94 octane and was running just under 22psi on the 398cu Iron block ls
Hi, Water/meth is definitely an option. I wanted to have something a bit more permanent, different, and working all the time. We'll see where it ends up! Thanks for watching!!👍👍
That YSi is a sweet unit and I would seriously not unload it if I were you! These centrifugal superchargers are quite efficient. 10 psi is completely streetable on pump gas especially in your climate! My project ‘91 is getting an S-trim with likely 12-14 psi in end and will run on 93 with possible meth injection. Done it before and it’s fine. Proper tune is a must of course and no high static compression either. This is best for a 9:1ish motor. My ‘93 Cobra has an Incon 800TT setup with the lay flat intercooler. It’s effective and packaged nicely but working on anything underneath and forward of engine is a pain. Air to water charge coolers are quite effective - the limiting factor is generally the effectiveness of the radiator that dumps the heat back out to ambient and the capacitance of the system - they get heat soaked because of these two factors. Higher IAT’s will equate to less power generally speaking via reduction in spark advance but if max power isn’t your issue and you’ve got a solid tune then leave well enough alone. Methanol is a nice easy addition for peace of mind. Full disclosure I develop this stuff for a living for an automaker we’re both familiar with. 😉
Hey @elementl1166, I totally agree that the YSI should stay where it is. I will likely mock up a model of an air to air, and as an alternative (just dreaming here), I would love to develop an air to water manifold, something like the Vortech Igloo, just a shorter version. From the China wall to the bottom of my hood, I have about 11-1/2 -12 inches of room (I also have an old hood I can experiment with putting a mild "bump" in the center as I don't want to run a cowl hood), so although it would be tight, there is room to work. A 12"L,10"W, 3" thick air to water core might work, and still have room for a passenger side fed intake lid (like the Vortech Igloo). I wish Holley would just make a "Low Ram" 351W intake lol, but that would be too easy... Thanks for your comments and suggestions!!! Greatly appreciated!!!
What are your thoughts: Tube and fin, or bar and plate for air to air?
6 in one half dozen in the other. Problem with the question is that there a far too many variables to say one is better than the other. Material choice/thickness, fin density, core thickness, face area, tube or plate geometry, turbulated vs no turbulators, and so on. Bar plate are generally heavier and tougher relatively speaking. One can be made to perform better than the other for heat transfer and vice versa. Have to consider charge air pressure drop as well. Always ideal to compare data but aftermarket usually doesn’t provide data so it’s a bit of a gamble/cram the biggest core you can fit. All in all you’re going to likely see some benefit on the street just a matter of how much. I personally wouldn’t do it just because the effort isn’t worth the payoff when you’re already happy with the current power level. I do agree those old Vortech Mondo air water coolers look mean. If you could do something shorter it would be neat to see. I actually built and tested an integrated air water cooler into an upper intake manifold (cut flange off an old Performer RPM upper intake) and that sat on a porter lower RPM. It cleared a 4” cowl. Ran it with a T Trim on my old ‘91. It was part of a senior design project when I got my engineering degree nearly 25 years ago. If you have the old issue it’s featured in the August 2004 edition of 5.0 Mustangs and Fast Fords. Look for Murphy’s Law
Hello@@elementl1166 , Thanks for taking the time for your comment. I really am not worried about how much power I have a this point. However, I feel its just "a good idea" to cool down the intake charge no matter how fast or slow I drive it. I think for my current boost level, and even if it was bumped up to 10 psi, the style of intercooler would likely not be as crucial as if I was running 15+psi. Any sort of intercooling would be a win win. I'm going to try and design two systems. One that can be easily done (air to air), and in my spare time, I'll likely dabble with an air to water (even if it takes me a couple years in my spare time). And, I will most certainly pull out Aug 2004 of 5.0 Mustangs and Fast Fords. I hope I still have the issue...Cheers! Thanks again!
Hey Todd! Your 86 is awesome!! I was going to suggest Meth Injection, but sounds like you’ve already experienced that before!! Honestly Pro Charger May be the way to go!
The Rustic Fox has a manual rack and it is a beast to turn at slow speeds! I am thinking on putting the power steering back in or running a drag setup with skinnies up front!
let me help yo out here boss. The goal is to maximize the amount of air you can fill in the cylinder. Your supercharger is helping out with that but your main problem now would be the lack of energy usable from the air supercharged into the combustion chamber. An intercooler will help gain more energy out of the same air you are pushing in already. It will make it more dense, making it more steady and tunable to a certain degree. Like you said any supercharger system and or turbo system needs a intercooler or else you may be admitting heated air which is no bueno for performance and tuned engines.
Hey @brianbravo923, Thanks so much for commenting, and for watching! I just have to decide air to air, or air to water, and make good use of my limited underhood space. Thanks again!👍👍
Vortech's AFTERCOOLER worked GREAT on my '93 Cobra. It fit well, and kept IAT's in check. Ran it with T-trim for 5 summers in Texas blasting the AC. The kit was pricey at the time, but cry once and enjoy long after.
Hello there! I do think the Aftercooler is a good idea, I just think for my displacement, it might be a bit small. It absolutely sits in a perfect place, and wish I had a bit more room. Your climate would definitely put it to the test! Thanks so much for your input. It always gives me things to think about! Greatly appreciated!!!
@@306foxbody1 should be a good talk with Vortech about the displacement. I had a 347 at the time and I ran a 70/30 water/anti-freeze mix. I'd like to use a Ysi someday.
The old P600b had more of a "paddle wheel" compressor wheel. Much like the A-trim of the Vortechs. The F1 would be an awesome setup if you went back with Pro Charger. Maybe I could talk you out of the Ysi.....🤔😂
@@arturozarate1752 Yes, the P600B just had the straight cut impeller blades, and the YSI has more technology in it. An F1 would be sweet on this car, especially with the bigger displacement. I was just concerned that the Vortech Aftercooler might not have enough volume to feed a 427. At least I have all winter to decide lol! So far, I think I want to make the YSI work...but yes, and F1 would be great! LOL
I love that car Todd. Definitely leave the bumper cover alone. Anything to keep less piping. Very nice boost unit there! I hope to go that route in the future.
I liked the info on the rear control arms. I’ve got my diff to do, it has horrible stock gears. I’ll need control arms at that point. Thanks!
👊😎✌️
Hey Rick...I definitely will never cut into the air dam or bumper cover...no matter what. I want to work around everything as much as possible. As far as gears, I really like 3.73s if you don't see much highway use, and 3.55, to me, is a nice all around gear. But everyone has their preference. Thanks for watching!!👍👍
put the a/c back on and enjoy it Todd i didn't lnow you had a YSI on there, that is awesome!
Hi Donald, Looking back, if I could do it all over again, I would have built a 331 and kept my old P600B. My goal isn't really to make more power, just to make the car safer on pump gas, and good to go for the odd blast through the gears... Thanks for watching!!
Hey Todd, the 86 is still looking amazing, excited to see what you come up with for the charge cooling! I have those southside side machine (I think lakewood bought them) bars, and while I haven't been able to actually drive on them in decades I remember them being really helpful for track traction. Really looking forward to seeing what you do with the rear suspension as well. Thanks for sharing!
Would it be possible to rotate that Holley intake to face forward or to the drivers side? If it would it would sure help reduce the plumbing required. Here's my idea: run a tight 180 bend off the blower so the charge pipe can can run down the passenger side to the front mounted intercooler. The air flows through the FMIC to the drivers side then back up to the throttle body. Idea # 2: Methanol injection would be the simplest solution and you already have a bung in the perfect spot for the nozzle on the blower outlet.. It won't lower your charge temps while cruising but will certainly bring them down under boost and prevent detonation. Buy a quality kit with a controller and braided lines, run a 50/50 mix with water (pure methanol is harder on parts), rebuild the pump every 3 years and you should never have any issues.
Hey Bryce! I was looking at the car this morning, and that is definitely what I had in mind (In the video, when I was talking about running the pipe across the top of the engine in front of the elbow, I knew that would already be a hot mess lol!). I think if the intake elbow faces the drivers side, that would work just fine. I'll likely mock it up just to see how it looks, and go from there. The Meth kit is definitely also a great idea, especially as you know how wonderful our fuel is around here...lol Thanks for your input!!!
Chemical intercooling! Run a progressive methanal injection system. Start it off at 4psi. Run 50/50 water to meth ratio. Methyl hydrate from your local home centre does the trick!
Edit*. Run the 50/50 with the small vortech air-to-water setup and you’ll be in good shape.
Hey there! Did you have a Procharger on your Vette? Or was it a Vortech with meth? I never really got to see that car up close...but I heard it was a beast!!! LOL
@@306foxbody1 it was a procharger f1a 94mm. The setup also ran the c5 procharger air to air intercooler plus a snow progressive meth kit where a 50/50 water to meth mix was ran. Car was tuned on 94 octane and was running just under 22psi on the 398cu Iron block ls
Just add water injection.
Hi, Water/meth is definitely an option. I wanted to have something a bit more permanent, different, and working all the time. We'll see where it ends up! Thanks for watching!!👍👍