YOU gave birth, YOU pay the bill?! 🙃 r/AITA
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
- this subreddit AITA fishing was wiiiillld, we talk giving birth and bills, dogs and babies on airplanes and step dads.
wanna be a member? grab a backstage pass! www.youtube.co...
HEY LET'S BE INTERNET FRIENDS:
Instagram @sherbetlemon007
Twitter @sherbetlemon007
TikTok @sherbetlemon007
Twitch @shaabaandjamie
Our site: shaabaandjamie . c o m
Jamie's channel: @jammidodger
Our gaming channel: @shaabaandjamie
Be kind and have a great day (:
the last OP when giving the details said “another 14 hours” meaning her full labor lasted THIRTY-EIGHT HOURS. If your wife has spent the last 38 hours in active labor in the hospital, i think you owe her pretty much anything she could possibly want, cuz holy shit
considering most labour doesn't last nearly as long the wife likely also had some pretty serious complications
I'm gonna give my partner whatever they want when they are pregnant, giving birth, and breastfeeding. I'm so glad i don't have to do these physically demanding things myself. I'll do whatever i can to make it easier on them. ❤
@@SartorialDragonyour partner will be very lucky!
My first labour was 54 hours! And ended in an emergency c-section.
My boyfriend was AMAZING and did everything he could to support me and our son during that hard time. ❤️
Insane to hear that that husband could watch his partner be in labor for 24 hours and then act like she’s weak for needing the hospital. Like??? Huh??? What?? What a cruel man. Even if he did pay half the bill, that mindset is extremely toxic and dangerous. Run!
Right?! I'm wondering if he's really been a bit cruel all along and she's going to starting connecting those dots now that she's finally aware of it. I can't imagine.
@@heather9130 yeah it does feel like this can't have come out of nowhere. If he feels like this about the hospital bill, I shudder to think how he might view his part in child raising. Also just think about if they have a daughter, if he treats childbirth so dismissively, just imagine all the stuff that can come up in a daughter's childhood.
@@willowarkan2263 , unfortunately, it is a well documented feature of many abusive people's behavior that the abusive and/or gaslighty behavior starts or significantly intensifies in connection with the partner's first pregnancy or childbirth.
Manipulating her to lose (all / much of) her savings is the most chilling part of this, as lacking funds will make it more difficult for her to leave. I hope she grabs her baby and runs!
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 That isn't an aspect I considered. Yeah forcing her to pay for the bill thereby depleting her savings would mean that at least for the short term she is dependant on him financially, since there's no guarantee that she even has an income while caring for her newborn. So she is extremely vulnerable now, even more so then what comes with being a first time mother.
@@ronjaj.addams-ramstedt1023 holy shit, i had not considered that. 😮😢
I literally just came out to my little brother, like four minutes ago. I’m shaking so much. He just hugged me, said “alright, BRO, I love you, you are perfect” he’s 12, knows very little about the queer community and he still reacted so awesome
This is the best thing I’ve read all day. So happy for you!
Congratulations! I hope his good reaction will help to calm down a bit and get to enjoy and be proud. It's scary coming out. We got you
Generally it's better coming out to younger people. They're a bit more accepting that older people who have had it drilled into their head that anything different is 'bad'.
So happy for you. When I cam out as a lesbian to my brother when he was 10, he literally didn’t understand why I was crying. He just looked at me and said “Hitler’s dead so what does it matter?” (Turns out I’m enby and not lesbian, but anyway...)
👍🏻👏🏻🎉💚 Great stuff 🙂 Young people tend to be way more accepting.
To #3: while your husband is away, collect as much evidence as you quickly can, grab your kid and RUN to a trusted friend/s who understands abusive relationships. Then, file for divorce and sole custody.
Reason: a husband/wife/partner, who suddenly starts showing behaviors like an almost different person, in connection with a partner's pregnancy or childbirth, is a _classic_ red flag of abusive tendencies.
"When someone shows you who they are, believe them _the first time_ " -- Maya Angelou
On the last one, when they asked 'if it was just the hormones', I always feel like hormones are just used as an excuse to invalidate people's genuine feelings about upsetting things
Yes. Especially women get invalidated.
When men are angry: oh, he probably has a good reason!
When women are angry: she's probably on her period! She's got hysterics!
It's disgusting.
true that
I bet you that is what the husband threw at her when they fought about the issue.
@@WelcomeApathy That's what I was thinking, too, but I was hesitant to say it because that's such an effed up way of gaslighting that I'm afraid to accuse someone of doing that.
This! ☝️ I was 19 when I had my baby and head midwife treated me as if I didn't know anything. When my daughter was about 6months old she was really poorly (flu-like, fever, conjunctivitis) and young male Dr told me it was just a cold and asked if I was feeling depressed... went to different Dr 2 days later, he immediately treated my baby and asked why I hadn't come sooner! (I told him and he dealt with the younger dr)
Jaw on the floor, flabbergasted, gobsmacked, absolutely zooted by that last story. I cannot even comprehend how a person could watch someone be in unmedicated labor for 24 hours and not be pulling their hair out demanding they get an epidural much less disrespecting them in such a way. Horrifying.
I doubt he watched. If he did, I’m sure he thought she was being a drama queen / princess.
If anything that husband should've paid for her in full, since he wasn't and isn't the one dealing with all of the physical and emotional trauma of pregnancy and birthing a child. WTF.
My spouse supported me through two unmedicated births. He and I both heard this one and yelled HEAD. FOR. THE. HILLS. This entire situation isn't a red flag, it is a tornado siren.
It said in the post he encouraged her to get it.
@@hopegold883yeah but after it was done he completely changed his opinion and decided she was being unreasonable
That last poor lady should invoice her husband for 9 months of pregnancy, including hazard pay because pregnancy is dangerous, and a flat fee of $20,000 for giving birth to his child. He’s already refusing to take responsibility for his own child, that’s not going to work long-term.
The childbirth one is outrageous. Personally I’d leave him AND sue him for half the cost. That’s the most insane thing I’ve ever heard.
sue for the cost AND emotional damages AND child support. have his ass legally required to go halfsies from here on
Get Judge Judy on this one. She'll absolutely crucify him
I'd sue him for ALL the cost, since her body is already messed up, and is going to be for at least a year.
@@nottheredelilah3757 exactly. Because he showed her crystal clear that, whether or not they stay together, he will refuse to pay his share of parental duties, financially or otherwise.
Domestic violence often increases during and after pregnancy. And this display of cruelty is making me nervous for OP.
THAT LAST ONE! She brought their child into the world and he couldn't AT LEAST split the cost??? The fact that he couldn't understand why those "add-ons" were completely necessary and not needing them wasn't a sure thing is some other level of ignorance.
I thought he didn't wanna pay the whole thing? That's how it was written with the "A princess expecting me to pay the bill", I mean hot take but if money is a problem, shouldn't it be spilt?
@@kiraphobia222 no she specified that she sucked it up and paid the whole thing, instead of continuing to insist that they split it like they normally did and she had to use all of her savings
@@kiraphobia222 The conversation was never about OP asking the husband to pay the entire bill. OP wanted to split it 50/50 as they seem to have handled all bills like that in the past.
It makes you wonder if they could find a pregnancy simulator somewhere??? It would be enjoyable to see how long he lasts even if I’d still divorce his ass afterwards!
@@kiraphobia222 considering the ass didn't have to actually go through the fucking labor himself, it wouldn't even be unreasonable for him to at least cover the cost. It seems his contribution so far was getting off to get her pregnant and he seems to feel that is where his "responsibility" for the situation ended.
Did the math on the relationship for the 3rd story, and a 14yr relationship would have had the husband be 21, and the wife be 18 when they first got together. So she's been with the same guy her entire adult life , which could really explain how she may have missed warning signs beforehand. I feel so sorry for her. Also keeping separate accounts isn't a red flag, it can be healthy for some couples, but the fact their shared account to pay for bills wasn't even considered for the use of a birth of their shared child is mindboggling.
I can't imagine how they didn't talk about this beforehand?!
He accused her of "not reading the books", but he clearly hasn't read any books on how expensive pregnancy, birth, and raising a child are.
This topic should have come up way earlier. You have almost 9 months (if you discover the pregnancy early on) to get all the info and have all the conversations.....!
Not using the shared account got me also. He’s a dick!
@@SartorialDragon she probably figured it would be the same as it had been previously (splitting the cost) so she didn't think they needed to talk about it. medical bills are still bills too! so the fact that he was saying she needed to pay for it is absolutely mind boggling. she really shouldn't have to pay for any of it financially considering she went through 38 hours of childbirth (based on her saying 24 w/o epidural plus 14 with). she needs to get away from him ASAP, seriously. I worry for her safety and security. making someone financially dependent on you is a classic control tactic for abusers, and to me it seems very likely that's part of (if not completely) his reason for wanting her to spend a significant amount of her PERSONAL SAVINGS on medical bills for their (shared) child's birth. I really really hope she's out of that relationship now because holy shit
yeah, i feel like if they'd talked before hand and he was like "i cant afford it i can pay for the basics but not if you need an epidural" then it may have been slightly different. but youd still pay for what you agreed to pay for. i think the real asshole is is the fact childbirth is so expensive and things like epidurals are seen as an add on and not included as a default. or even free like it is in every other first world nation. but these are really things you need to decide before even putting your dick in someone let alone a day after the child is born.
I feel so bad for the last OP, I remember reading it on the sub and totally jumped on the "you need to leave that horrible man" train, but I also think it must be devastating to see this new side of your partner after 14 years and having a child together, I hope she has lots of support from other family and friends.
I really hope he isn't the isolating type, because after 14 years he could have already done so much.
I feel like this aint new behavior from him considering he was 21 and she was 16 when they started dating
@@appleschloss ah, that's not ideal ages for a start of a relationship. That's an uncomfortable power dynamic to start on. For one I would be shocked if this wasn't her first long term relationship and she stayed with him for 14 years, like that's practically half her life.
@@appleschloss she would have been 18 and he 21. not a large gap at all, but depending on their life stages at that point, def could be a power dynamic issue.
@@Goldlucky13 didnt she say she was 30 and he 34?
That last one is so horrific. The gall to say that to your wife who just went through labor- no matter what interventions or medications she had to have is so disgusting. And I'm sure the husband likely would crumble with just the period pain simulators they have let alone LABOR for over 24 hours.
Wonder how much meds and sympathy he'd expect for passing a kidney stone?
And that “you could have waited it out” bs. Infuriating!
Not to mention the petty complaint about hospital food and not packing snacks, or a nursery for being sleep deprived. Like, what was your ass doing the whole time?? couldn't *you* have brought the snacks or held the baby all night after you wife was laboring for 38 hours??
@@silverghostcat1924 1. Passing a kidney stone is something both sexes can do 2. The pain of a kidney stone is NOT comparable to the pain of child birth.
@@jellybeans3994 I'm sure neither are pleasant with or without medical intervention.
Imagine having a partner who wants you to suffer rather than pay for a medical procedure.
I'm aromantic myself but surely nobody can think this is a loving relationship???
These are the moments i wish everyone was aro 😅 ... having friends is more valuable than what many relationships are 😢
The last one has me stunned, like mate you were involved in getting your wife pregnant but she carried the child for 40 weeks and laboured for over a day, the least you can do is kick in some money to pay the hospital bill
Wow I am dumbfounded by that a-hole husband. She needs to get her things and run. And she also needs to demand full custody. That's insane! What a horrible, horrible person.
Yeah absolutely on the full custody. If that man is heartless enough to not want to financially support his wife's medical care, then he could never be a good father. I hope that baby doesn't have to grow up in the care of such a completely heartless man.
She would be TA to herself if she stayed with that mosquito masquerading as a human
Last OP should turn it around and tell husband it's his fault for not learning how to help birth a child. They wouldn't have had to go to the hospital and rack up all those unnecessary costs if he'd put in just a little extra work and learned how to do it himself 😌
"Oh, so now a medical license is a luxury!? C'mon, Jim!"
That last one made my blood boil. It doesn't sound like he even likes his wife to be honest. He's trying to upset her and make her suffer more than she already has. Vile. She definitely should reconsider their marriage. Disgusting attitude towards the woman he's supposed to love and the mother of his child.
The last story blew my effing mind. She needs a divorce, as soon as she can. I don't care if he regrets his horrible behavior later and crawls back. A woman who just went through the birth of a child, plus all the physical and hormonal changes in the immediate aftermath are NOT the right time to deal with such a colossal a$$hole on top of all that. I'm disgusted.
The 3rd story really made me glad that I don't live in the US. The extra stress that medical expenses place on people is unreal. In a country with socialized medicine, this may not even have been an issue at all. That being said, I would have thought all the expenses relating to child birth of their mutual child should be paid for out of their joint account? Great video btw Shaaba!
It might not have been an issue for this particular bill but there is no way on heaven or earth that his cruelty and abuse are confined to this singular instance. It may be the silver lining of that shitty cloud that it allowed her to see him for what he is so entirely clearly in a way she hadn't done over their 14 year relationship.
I’m seething at the last one. You said it best: “the baby is not an investment”!! Either hardcore family therapy or divorce is necessary in this case
As a person who loves dogs more than people, I would ABSOLUTELY understand when people didn't want to be around my dog. She didn't even do the "annoying dog" things like jumping up or barking, and was quite gentle around children. But I still understood when someone would ask if I could put her in my room while they visited. Some people are just really stressed out by them.
Even if I was dead-set on bringing her to a vacation, I would be reasonable about it. The whole family's vacation wouldn't have to revolve around her, and there would be very clear boundaries with anyone who was uncomfortable. If it was a case of "my brother won't go if the dog goes" I would honestly just stay home with the dog and let him go. Or I would try to arrange other accommodations for myself and the dog if possible.
I feel like both parties in that story might be acting unreasonable, though of course we only heard the one side.
And yes. Babies and toddlers cause SO MUCH MORE disruption than a dog of equal training. Largely because you literally cannot leave them alone any time they are awake. At all.
I have a very different opinion on that. I don't like kids but I can't dictate whether your kid comes on vacation. I will be going on my vacation and I will be bringing my dog. If you don't want to pet my dog, fine. I don't want to hold your baby so please don't ask. If you don't want to talk to my dog, fine. I don't want to talk about your baby. I will not put my dog in another room unless my dog is behaving inappropriately. If your baby pinches, screams or throws things, I expect you to do the same.
But unless you're allergic, I'm bringing my dog.
@@jnewcomb What about if I'm terrifed of dogs? I've actually pulled out of vacations after trying tu suck it up a few times and having a miserable time because I ans so scared of dogs, I don't uderstand them so can't predict their actions, I've been bitten, They seem to always comme and sniff my private parts, espacially during a certain week of the month, and when on vacation with a dog I get constant nightmares and end up exhausted...
@Aquarysa That would be different though, wouldn't it? There's an actual physical response when anxiety comes into play. I would treat you as if you were "allergic" to my dog. But I will also say, I have a service dog. If I were the 'dog' brother and you were the 'baby' brother, who wins then? I need my dog. Would you avoid family forever because they are always accompanied by a fluff buddy?
We're making a potentially complicated situation seem simple when there are subtleties and complexities we probably weren't informed of. I'm not comfortable with speculation and "what if" scenarios that weren't presented. I have to base my response on what OP said, we don't know why 'dog' brother insists on bring the dog but OP just doesn't like dogs. Each can behave like adults and cope for a week if they're willing to put their dislikes aside. I think that's simple enough to do. OP is just being stubborn.
@@jnewcomb I would work on interacting with your dog little by little and would also trust a service dog more as well trained. For example I'm okay with my father in law's dog, don't love her but will give a scratch and take her on a walk as she's super well behaved. My mother in law's dog though was a big no... I this situation the best as they live in the same town would be to visit with baby and dog, and learn to "know" each other before being in a house together for a whole week (and see how the dog is trained where you only have to stay a few hours / how the kid reacts... my 14 m/o loves dogs, barks when he sees one and runs after them for example. Other kids are somtimes scared) It's a big trust issue, and dog type issue (small dogs bit me each time so I trust them less than sheperd dog types that can be better trained I feel...)
As a dog lover and mom to a human teenager, I agree
I suspect with the last OP that during the relationship she never got really sick or had to go to hospital, which is why she never saw this side of her SO. If I was her, I would now start worrying that if the child got a job while they were a teenager, the father would make the child pay for all their own costs including medical bills. This guy is a miser and while divorce might not be the first port to call at, DEFINITELY get some serious couples counselling.
Can you imagine if she got sick or disabled in some way? Guy would be terrible!
the last one is beyond reconciliation for me. how are you supposed to come back from something like that??
That last story made me sass at my phone screen. That poor woman does not deserve that. It’s heartbreaking that it took 14 years and a childbirth for him to show his true colors. I hope she leaves him.
@@youtubesupportsfascism I don’t even have to respond to you, you make your own self look bad lol
For the first one, it very much sounds like an unhealthy relationship between the brother and the step-parent. Like, genuinely him moving away from them IS a good move. If the response was 'ground him' and only that for two years rather than try and figure out what could possibly make things easier... then it makes sense he's let that relationship impact his relationship with his step-siblings. Admittedly don't know everything, but IF and this is a BIG IF they want to work on that relationship, it'd likely take therapy(individual and family) because at that point there could easily be things going on with both the brother and step-father that either side needs to work through for the relationship to ever be healthy.
I was in a similar situation with to the brother. I did, and still do not get along with my mom's second husband. My mom insisted that I love him as much as she loved him and tried forcing it to happen. This husband meanwhile could be as horrible as he wanted towards me and I'd be in the wrong for getting upset. Not a pleasant way to spend adolescence.
@@saraquill under these circumstances, I can see how hard it would be to consider stepsisters your sisters.
Doesn’t seem like he hates them or blames them, he just can’t consider them part of his family.
And no one’s interested in exploring why, just in demanding he love them.
Definitely sounds like your situation …
I agree with what you're saying. Also, why did the stephdad had to do the parenting? Why couldn't the mother do that? Besides that, this boy is in the midst of puberty, he is having enough feelings to explore, without having to be forced to love someone.
@@saraquill does your name refer to what I think it does? 🙂💞
@@glitterspray It's a riff on my middle name
If your partner's first instinct after you gave birth to their child is to hand you the bill, RUN
My jaw is on the floor.
It's gonna take a minute to recover from that last one. And they have been an item for 14years?! And that is the level of non existent respect she gets from her husband? WTAF
And what else might this arsehole be doing to put her down and control her??
LOVED the idea of assessing AITA by putting the scenarios onto friends and loved ones to find out where your moral standing lies if it is too hard to see things clearly for yourself due to low self esteem and worth. So useful.
I've not been through labour but I've had kidney stones & that was excruciating. I was vomiting from pain. If someone said to me, even now years later let alone months after, that I was "a princess" for needing "luxuries" like pain meds... I honestly would be hard pressed not to deck them. That's without the financial side of the situation which is coming across as financial abuse - have her deplete all her savings so it's difficult for her to leave when he behaves terribly to her. Abusers often drop the mask when they feel they've tied you down & marriage/kids are frequently when they feel that way.
Completely flabbergasted at the last one even before she mentioned it was 14 MORE HOURS OF LABOR and he apparently expected her to do a bunch of extra work planning for unexpected fees WHILE SHE WAS CARRYING A CHILD AND THEN IN LABOR AND THEN GIVING BIRTH. DUDE, did you do anything to help her leading up to this? And now you won't even support half of the bill to bring YOUR CHILD into this world? WTF.
The only thing I can think of that even starts to explain his behavior is that he's panicking about having a new baby, and taking out his need for control on her in a weird way. And even that still makes him an asshole and someone you might want to reexamine your relationship with.
About the dog, I immediately thought what you said: it’s the exact same with people with kids. They bring them everywhere, everything needs to be kid-friendly, they are busy with the kid. And rightly so in most cases, but doing the same thing but with a dog instead of a kid is just as bloody valid.
I feel like the thing missing from the dog story is that it can be either very difficult to find someone to watch your dog or very expensive to put them in a kennel (not to mention the separation anxiety that dog would have). So OP is essentially telling their brother that he should go through all that just because OP doesn't like dogs. I lean more toward them being the a**hole, honestly. It would be one thing if they were allergic or the dog was mean/aggressive. It feels like they don't respect their brother.
7:26 a dynamic that I think was only very briefly touched on here but feels super important to the situation- if the brother was only 12 at the divorce, what did he know about the father’s behavior? Since OP was much older & female, it seems much more likely that she would not only be more aware of cheating, lying, etc, but also that she would be much more likely to have specific feelings about the dynamics of being cheated on. Since women are usually socialized to be more emotionally aware than 12-year-old boys (duh), her perspective of the things her father has done and the damage it inflicted both on their mother and the family as a whole is almost certainly closer to the truth. I do mean that he was likely being sheltered, but also in the sense that a younger boy is not going to have the emotional or social ability to grasp the deep affects of lying, cheating, manipulation, etc. His relationship with his father is better than OP’s, if for no other reason than that he wasn’t old enough to understand the situation. I’m sure there are tons and tons of other factors and such here, but it certainly seems likely that, if nothing else, the younger sibling is not going to see his father as so clearly being “the villain” when he literally either did not know or did not have the emotional capacity to understand the situation 🤷🏻♀️
Story 1: [taps the sign] Other people's relationships with other people have no bearing on the nature of your relationships. There are many valid reactions to becoming part of a blended family from "My newest family members are more my [sibling/mother/father/child] than my blood-related family," to "my mom's new husband's family are my roommates." And you know why that is? Family is NOT determined by blood. Family is NOT determined by legal status. Family is NOT determined by other people's expectations. Family is WHO YOU CHOOSE.
I think the conversation a lot of the time (because this is more common) is about how invalidating it is for people to act is if blended families have relationships that are inherently "less family," but I think the conversation about how invalidating it is that you *must* accept someone as your family just because someone else in your family decided that they were their family is also important.
I think it would be good for OP of story 1 to accept that her sisters are not her brother's sisters are that is okay. I think it would also be good for the brother to be more polite towards his step-father's daughters, but judging by the fact that he feels so rejected by his family to want to go to his estranged father tells me that there's more to this story from his perspective than OP is letting on.
Yeah, I agree. And also the fact that they were in different situations during the change of parents in their lives because of their age difference is something I find significant. To me it's the fact that the brother was just 13 at the start whereas the sister was 16 makes more of a difference than people seem to have given credit for- which we can see from the lack of autonomy that the brother has been experiencing by being grounded for the whole time he's been in the blended family. As a young teen being told -and possibly forced by grounding- how to feel about relationships with your family (which could have been the case, especially as OP didn't mention any of the family disagreeing with her assertion that her brother must accept his step siblings as family otherwise she won't come back) has a major effect on how you react to said family. It wouldn't be unreasonable to see the possibility of the brother pushing back against the force of his mum and Step Dad's expectations by claiming he'll "never love" his step siblings and generally saying harsh things of that nature. This is a young teen expressing his autonomy over his relationships with the people in his life during the tumultuous emotional time of experiencing a messy parental break up and a new, blended family. The difference in those three years is massive when it comes to autonomy and the ability to handle emotional experiences. We can see this from his ability to go and live with his bio Dad since he just turned 16- the age his sister was from the very start of their blended family.
Last story is so easy to answer, and I'm glad the OP seems to have realised it too: NTA
How on earth does he consider medical care a luxury???
I fully support her in leaving him and finding a safer place to live with her child.
Regarding the term "sperm donor", I personally use it all the time to refer to my father, along with my mom. I basically only use it in conversations with my mom though not with anyone else. It helps me disassociate from him which I have ben trying to do for years.
The last one makes me so mad! Not just at the husband, but also our Healthcare system that allowed this bill to be so outrageous. Yeah NTA, husband needs to go, absolutely a hill worth dying on.
So, first story I kind of relate to a little bit. My dad / sperm donor was incredibly abusive to me (I keep finding new disorders he gave me). My mom finally divorced him (AFTER I moved out of the house) and will probably fight for full custody. My brother (15) is kind of more on da's side purely because he didn't recieve the brunt of the abuse that me and my sister did, so I'm worried about how he will react when mom does fight for custody... that is to say, abuse isnt always equal, and a lot of times male children recieve less of it
Not that I disagree with your statement, but how you got there is kinda eh for me cause we don't know how hte treatment varied
Yeah, I agree that OP was TA, but saying that "you can't call your bio dad not your dad" and " your brother trusts him, ergo he's not a bad dad" are not words I expected from somebody like Shaaba
OMG that last story! The husband in the story is just . . . I can't think of strong enough words. As a father myself, I wanted to reach through the Internet and shake him. OP should get as far away as she can as fast as she can and never look back.
That last one, the guy should have paid the whole hospital bill because the woman was pregnant for nine months and was in labor for 38 hours, with out any pain killers for 24 hours while she was giving birth to their baby.
I almost divorced my ex right after the last birth. I gave birth at home and the baby came right before the older siblings came home from school. My ex had an open house so I had some strange kids in my bedroom right after giving birth. Of course the kids were curious when they got the news and some didn't know better and just walked right in. The siblings were 6, 9, 11 and 12 year old and we lived very close to their school so the news spread out very quickly. I got so angry that he didn't protect my privacy. It was not even the kids friends that came storming in the bedroom. But I didn't divorce him till 3 years later.
Holy heck 😮
"Take the situation you are in and apply it to your friends/people important to you and see how you react/feel." This line right here....I really needed to hear this. No I wouldn't put up with this abuse if I saw my friend going through it. I wouldn't stand by and let them be abused and hurt. I shouldn't stand by and let myself be abused and hurt, manipulated and gaslit. I would not stand for that, so I will not.
I really really needed to hear that line. Thank you Shaaba, I needed that eye opener.
I'm loving these AITA vids, Shabba. That last story knocked the previous two right out of my head. That poor woman, finding out her husband is a monster this way. There is absolutely no excuse for his behaviour. The fact that she paid the bill tells me that he's already been manipulating her plenty, and she'd best make a speedy getaway to the nearest woman's shelter or safe place. My heart goes out to her!
Regarding ultimatums. Genuine question. Can anyone please explain to me where the line is between demanding something from a person and simply eplaining why you feel xyz way and are going/not going to do something? Like, you can say "if they're not your sisters, then neither am I" and that can mean 1: "you better change your ways or else" or it can mean 2: "I'm uncomfortable with how you treat them and wish to distance myself from you".
And from there, is option 1 really ALWAYS bad, if the "ways" you're demanding to be changed are harmful? Not applicable to that particular AITA situation, but in other ones, maybe? I mean, Shaaba says ultimatums are NEVER okay, but how would saying "stop literally hurting me or I'm leaving" not be okay? What's the better alternative? Let them continue? Disappear without a word?
Which leads me to option 2, wouldn't it be better to explain why you're doing/not doing something? Being autistic, my communication approach is to be as clear and easy to understand as possible, and i really don't understand how being deliberately less clear would be preferable. They may not change, but they will at least know what's up
I mentioned being autistic because this is a forever struggle between me and my NT mom. If I don't explain something, she misinterprets my intentions, but if I DO explain, she still misinterprets. She seems unable to comprehend, even after I've told her again and again, that there's no hidden meaning behind my words, ever. I just don't do that. So sometimes my simple-no-ulterior-motives explanations are taken as ultimatums/demands. Like, no, I'm just trying to get you to understand, what you do afterwards is entirely up to you!
Sorry for the long comment, it's just this "NO ULTIMATUMS EVER" talk really confuses me, since there's so much more to it
I hear you on this! I have trouble with absolute statements of this kind as well, since I'm always like "But what if...?"
Personally, I think where I fall on ultimatums is A) do you really mean it? and B) if you force an outcome that way, is it actually going to accomplish anything productive?
For example, I don't like "propose to me within 6 months or I'm out", because A) how much do you love this person if the lack of a ring makes you not want to be with them? and B) if that's what it takes to get them to propose, then how much do they actually want to be with YOU? Doesn't seem like a recipe for happiness. Also, what's stopping you from proposing to THEM?
Your example of "stop hurting me (presumably either physically or emotionally) or I'm leaving", on the other hand, is totally reasonable...to the point that I think a lot of people would not even think about it as an ultimatum. Although abusive people rarely change with that type of thing, so it might be better to just go: "I'm leaving BECAUSE you hurt me." If it's a situation where maybe they don't realize they're hurting you, then one can try to explain. But if they still keep doing it after multiple explanations...it's probably best to leave if you can!
In this case, the problem is that OP, by saying she's not coming home unless brother apologizes and says he loves his step-siblings, is dragging EVERYONE into this drama. Ideally, she could have a conversation with the brother about why he's feeling so hostile to the new family (and maybe a conversation with herself about whether she's being overly hostile to bio-dad, who brother seems close to) and what might improve the relationship.
But if that's not possible, then she could say to brother "the way you're treating step-sibs is really upsetting me and I don't want to talk to you right now" and to mom "I don't really feel like coming home for spring break and dealing with brother right now...but maybe the rest of us can meet up when he's off visiting bio-dad" or something like that.
@@emilymoran9152 What you described for OP's situation makes total sense, until I think about how even saying "the way you're treating step-sibs is really upsetting me and I don't want to talk to you right now" can be taken by some people as gross manipulation
Part of this is me just being plain dumb, but it's also this kinda-almost idealistic thinking of mine "if we all just tried a bit harder to understand each other, we could get along". But I guess some people just don't want to understand and get along
Ahh, people interactions.. fun stuff!
Thank you for replying!
I love your AITA videos! :)
On the first one: I absolutely agree ESH (not necessarily for the same reasoning), but I can't understand why so many people are taken aback by the use of 'sperm donor' for the biological father. By it's technical definition, sure. But the way it is used in general language when speaking of a father is used to imply an uninvolved or negative relationship with the children. One comment said that wasn't an accurate term, but the brother not using 'step siblings' is also similarly implies a lack of feeling or connection. While we are giving the brother the benefit of the doubt that his relationship with step-dad may be awful and warrant this sort of language, shouldn't we also give OP the same benefit of the doubt that her relationship with her biological dad may make her feel like 'sperm donor' is a better term to communicate her relationship/feelings most succulently?
It isn't polite on either side, but if one side is wrong, the other is too. I would say they are both justified if that's how they're feeling.
I think it's less OP's use of the term specifically, and more that she's calling her stepbrother an asshole and trying to give him an ultimatum for what he calls his step-family while (hypocritically) doing the same thing? And we don't really know what her brother's relationship with the bio dad is or even the full story behind "cheating slimeball." At least that's kinda my reaction?
Like, she can call her bio dad that if she wants, (and I can understand that, if there's a lot of pain there) but she also needs to let her brother define his own relationship with both his bio dad and step-family. She can't force that. 🤷♀️
@@agent57 Yeah, just seemed to be one of the sticking points for one of the commenters and I found it kind of weird that would be mentioned but not the other side of the coin too.
agreed i think ppl are assuming that 1. the stepdad is the one grounding him and 2. that the biodad only hurt their mom, not the kids.
i think those are two HUGE assumptions to make. it's just as likely that their MOM is grounding him bc he's deliberately flouting stepdad's requests or guidance, and that the stepdad like--maybe they wouldn't mesh personality-wise anyway, but it's entirely possible he's just actually trying his best and not being a dick. why is everyone assuming stepdad is grounding him and being cruel to him, but they're all brushing off the fact that op is angry enough at her biodad to call him a sperm donor and cheating slimeball?
that really frustrated me. i have a lot of compassion for everyone in that story, and i don't think anyone there was really an asshole. i think the situation fucking sucks and they're having a LOT of trouble figuring out how to navigate it bc of how intense their own feelings abt the situation are. but that being said, i agree that they're justified and allowed to feel however they want. it sounds like her frustration w the brother is that his apparently very vocal hatred for the stepfamily is hurting her--not bc she wants him to feel exactly as she does, but bc it feels invalidating to have someone you love and care abt and who went through this traumatizing event w you say so loudly that they hate these new people who are making you happy and comfortable.
and they're both just so young, i can't have anything but compassion for both of them. and there's so much missing information in the story that it feels ridiculous to make any sound judgment on it besides, "it sounds like you're not hearing your brother's pain and experience and where he's coming from, and he's not hearing yours. sitting down and trying to have a more productive conversation w someone like a counselor might really help."
+
@@randomripoff123 +
First story: I definitely started referring to my dad as sperm donor because he treated my brother's friend better than he treated me. He would ignore me whenever I tried to spend time with him. Several promises were broken. After 13 years of all of this, I just decided to give up on trying to have any sort of relationship with him and I no longer look at him as my father because since the divorce he hasn't really treated me like a daughter despite having a good relationship for the first 14 years of my life. So I understand where OP is coming from referring to her bio dad as sperm donor and while I don't have a step-father, I do have my uncle who is more of a father to me than my bio dad is. I also have a younger brother who loves my dad. I don't try to tell him not to because I don't like him and he doesn't tell me that I have to love him because he does. We both have different relationships with him. Forcing someone to have the same type of relationship with someone as you do is not going to work. Step-families are also really difficult to navigate. Just because OP loves her step-family as if they were her biological family, doesn't mean her brother feels the same way. Nobody's feelings are wrong. Both feelings are valid. OP needs to accept that her brother feels the way he does and he's not wrong for feeling that way toward the step-family and his bio dad just like she isn't wrong for feeling the way she does toward her bio dad and step-family.
Second story: This is tough because I love dogs and I own a dog. Both dogs and babies require everyone to be flexible. Dogs can't do certain activities and babies need naps and changings. Difference is, the dog can be left at home while they go do certain things and a baby can't. Both can be loud. I think it's valid to be concerned that the dog's barking will wake the baby and it may take a while to get the baby back to sleep. It's also valid to be concerned about the dog jumping on the baby. But also expecting the brother to leave the dog behind simply because it will be an inconvenience to OP is not the way to go. I think OP's brother has the right to bring the dog and I think OP has the right to bail. I do think that the brother should listen to OP and OP needs to be honest about his concerns with the dog going and set boundaries to make this as smooth of a family trip as it can be.
Third story: This story just boils my blood more and more the longer it goes. This husband is a piece of work. Your wife is going through very intense pain to bring a child into this world. A child that it sounds like you both wanted. It wasn't an 'oops we weren't as careful and now we're having a baby'. It was a planned pregnancy. Actively trying to get pregnant. Yes we refer to babies as tiny humans, but it doesn't mean they are tiny. Babies are rather large when you consider where they are being birthed from. She couldn't hold out past the 24 hour mark? Yo, I know people who can't hold out past the 5 minute mark. You are literally pushing a human out of you. That is a very painful experience. The mere idea of going through that pain is why people have opted not to have kids at all or look into adoption or surrogacy. They don't want to go through that pain no matter how great the reward may be. Making your wife pay for her epidural because she "couldn't hold out any longer without it" is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Men seem to love comparing period pain and labour pain with getting kicked in the junk (it's actually way worse, but for humour sake let's roll with it). So yeah, hubby needs to imagine getting kicked in the junk with steel-toed boots (might as well make it as close to accurate as we can) for 24 hours straight and see how long he can hold out. There needs to be a labour and birthing simulator so this husband can get the full experience his wife did and when he's sobbing within the first 5 minutes (because you know he would be) that he needs it to stop, the wife needs to say "nah, there's still 24 hours to go" while holding their baby and smiling. Maybe then he wouldn't be bringing his wife the bill with her "unnecessary" extra add-ons demanding that she pay because she couldn't hold out longer than 24 hours. And don't even get me started on carrying that child for 9 months. This is definitely going to be an issue between them and I don't see it getting better any time soon and I do think she should leave him and sue for full custody of the kid too. After all, she carried the kid for 9 months, she went through 38 hours of labour, and now has paid $8,000 for the extra add-ons that husband thinks are ridiculous and unnecessary. It's basically only her kid anyway because what has he done other than get her pregnant 9 months ago? He's not even grateful that his wife went through all of this. If he's going to treat having this child as a transaction, he doesn't deserve to be a father to this child. But no matter whether she decides to stay with him or leave him, what I will shout from the rooftops is "do NOT have any more children with this guy!" There are plenty of husbands who despite not going through the pain themselves, understand that their wives have gone through an immense amount of pain to bring their child into this world and do anything to make things easier for them. Basically the exact opposite of what this guy has done. Until this husband can see that his wife pulled off an incredible feat by going 24 HOURS without an epidural rather than looking at it as "she should have gone longer", he does not deserve to be a father again (at least not with OP).
I think I have a jaw cramp from that last story, I can't close my mouth. 😅 LIKE. What. WHAT??? HUH? I can't. This is WILD. Especially out of the blue after 14 years? I wonder wether OP just ignored previous red flags. Ugh.
I don't think I've ever been as angry about an AITA post as I am at that last one. WOW. Absolutely 200% NOT. THE. ASSHOLE. And I'm not quick to say this but honestly I hope she leaves him. That would be far beyond the breaking point for me. If I'm looking at, for example, my parents (they're not in the same financial situation as this couple but just imagining they are), my dad would likely REFUSE to let her pay any part of that bill, no matter how expensive. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but just putting it out there that a man who loves his wife would NEVER say things like that. You just watched her go through a 24+ hour labour, which is already one of the most painful things a human can go through, most of it UNMEDICATED (I can't even imagine how painful that is), at that point honestly the LEAST you could do would be to pay half the bill. I can't even fathom watching a partner go through that and then dropping the bill on them. Like you just went through nine months of pregnancy and probably more pain in just 24 hours than I'll ever feel in my life, let me take care of the money. And don't even get me started on how he called pain meds a luxury and all that. I need painkillers on my period if I want to function like a human being (no extreme periods btw, I'm autistic and super sensitive to any discomfort in my body), they're a necessity for me. My body probably wouldn't physically hold out through labour pains without any pain meds, this woman is already so strong for making it 24 hours, he watched her go through that pain and then somehow decided that it was a luxury, a special request, an add-on, for her to get SOME pain relief??? DROP THIS MAN IMMEDIATELY!!! I know this is a bit of a rant but my kinda overly empathetic autistic brain just needed to get this out or else I'd be angry about it all day.
Couldn't agree more!!
Same. Absolutely reasonable rant.
Everyone who hasn't ever gone through a birth or even a period should just STFU. How dare they judge whether it was justified to get pain meds?!
paying $8k for child birth is ridiculous.,,,makes me thankful I live in NZ.....sure our health system is not perfect....but knowing we dont have to fork out thousands of dollars each year makes me very thankful
The sad thing, in addition to the A*hole partner that doesn't think he needs to pay his share of your child's birth, is that hospitals will send in every doctor/expert to your room to give their 2 cents for a few seconds so they can charge more before you have a chance to agree to what they are going to charge you.
😡🤬🤬 that husband at the end is awful. What a sorry excuse for a human being. She deserves better.
Definitely understand having a close relationship with step and half siblings. I have four, and the only reason I describe them with their technical titles is because it gets categorically confusing, not to mention the questions I get when I mention I’m 27 and my youngest brother is 9 lol. That being said, not everyone has the same relationship with their step siblings, and not everyone will have the same relationship with step parents. My full sister and I are in roughly the same boat on how we feel across the board, but that’s more so because our lived experiences were surprisingly similar with these different figures in our lives, even if our ways of navigating these relationships and the ways we got there are different. That isn’t particularly common, though, and I’d argue it isn’t worth it to sacrifice your relationship with someone based on their relationships with other people, short of a few extreme exceptions.
the husband in the last story seems like the kinda dude to insist that getting kicked in the balls hurts worse than childbirth
I think the wife should bill her husband for the equivalent of half a mortgage payment per month he used *her* body to grow and support *their* kid. Surely, if he wanted to save money, he would have figured out a way to do it himself! 😂
Omg, that last one, I wouldn't trust that man to be anything but a frickin deadbeat if he refuses to help cover the cost of bringing his child into the world in the first place. He doesn't deserve her or her kid. My only concern with her leaving him is would he even pay the child support?
Also, What was their plan for paying for the child and it’s needs? What if the child needs something “extra”? Who should pay for that?
The one with the dog. Look, family is gonna wanna bring friends, significant others, babies, dogs ETC and you're not always gonna like em. You don't get to control if they bring them or not.
"I am not a dog person"....there it is! 😀 you are quite intuitive!
One thing I have to say is I've seen that whole "brother of the family sides with cheating or a**hole dad" and having incredibly aggressive reactions to step and half siblings, and generally its because the dad treated that kid as if he was "the only person" in the family to treat with respect or the favorite etc. (so tbh ESH agreed) But! it seems like bro is probably happier with his bio dad and it likely would've happened eventually. (Families I've seen this happen with the bro has immediately left after turning 18 or became actively abusive to the women and "new man" of their family until they could leave, so him leaving now is probably better for all involved is all I'm saying)
AGREED. the same thing happened w my brother & my dad (though different circumstances). those kinds of men/dads will treat their sons as "confidantes" and feed them lies abt the situation to get them to side w them, often against the mom and any other family members or new families. my brother absolutely treated my mom like shit for a while, and it's unclear whether, 16 years later, he still believes the lies my dad told.
their relationship has changed, but whereas i haven't spoken to my dad in 10+ years, my brother is temporarily moving in w him to save money.
this is such a crucial piece, i think, in what could be missing from that first story. op's anger seems to suggest that their biodad was also shitty to her, and her brother's insistence on these perspectives definitely reeks of some kind of shitty influence from their biodad. it feels really unfair of everyone to suggest that her relationship w biodad is being exaggerated or she's being mean, but just immediately accept that the stepdad is being unfairly cruel to the brother. op never said WHO was grounding the brother--it could very easily be their mom who is also still reeling and traumatized and doesn't know how to handle her son's anger.
agreed that him leaving was basically inevitable w that influence, and this was just an excuse he found to do so. i don't think op actually singlehandedly convinced him to do this. i also hope that they get some family help bc that kind of shit turns and stays sour, long-term, and it really sucks.
@@randomripoff123 Don't forget she refuses to even see her father as a human. It is incredibly disrespectful to call her own father "sperm donor", reeks of the same energy some men use when calling women females.
Plus even if it's the mother grounding her son for two years it's still abusive, and the step dad letting it happen doesn't paint him in good light either.
The parents could have given him a bare minimum and left it at that. I mean be polite and these are the basic house rules would have sufficed.
@@availanila kindly take a closer and more thoughtful look at the comments you're replying to and consider if this was the best response.
i will respond genuinely to what you say, though:
it's not dehumanizing to call their biodad (using her language, since she doesn't seem him as her father or dad anymore bc of his intense betrayal of trust) a sperm donor--it removes the significance of their *relationship*, not his personhood. those are completely different things.
the language "sperm donor" hasn't been used to strip people of their human rights. though the history of reproductive rights across genders, sexes, and race/ethnicity is complicated in the US and likely the UK, that is not equivalent to the kind of language used for others in efforts to systemically control and remove reproductive rights.
also let's not forget that interpersonal respect can be lost and earned--and i think it's incredibly disrespectful to cheat on your wife, especially when you have two children with her.
i also never said that it makes anyone here a saint or completely absolved of any responsibility--i said it's a very difficult and traumatizing situation for them all. i have compassion for everyone involved bc of it, bc i've been there and i know how messy it can be. again, see my comment that you're replying to.
i also meant to say that everyone is making a lot of assumptions in their responses to paint the sister/op and the stepdad in the worst possible light without considering that their biodad could be exactly as awful as op says, and that their mom also has involvement and agency here. it is unbalanced and unfair to assume that, just bc op is an angry young woman, that she is overly exaggerating or being unfair, but her brother--who has said exactly as awful things abt the family they live with--is completely justified. it's a double standard in everyone's response to this story.
also suggesting that if their mom was responsible for the grounding, the stepdad should've stepped in and stopped it is an idea/response that doesn't engage w their situation as is: the brother doesn't want to listen to him, anyway. if he stepped in he would probably resent that, as well. he very well may have tried that and ended up none the better off for it.
and suggesting that the stepdad "allows" the mom to do something is frustrating--the brother isn't his kid by blood, and if this IS their situation (the mom disciplining/grounding him), given the brother's anger, the stepdad probably feels really strange abt stepping in or getting involved.
it's an incredibly tricky and nuanced situation, and i think painting *any* of them as outright assholes or villains erases the nuance and complicated feelings and history going on. and let's not forget she is *19 years old* and still trying to learn to live with what her biodad did to them. i'm not surprised she handled things poorly given all the context.
and to be clear in no way am i saying the brother should be grounded or disciplined (mostly bc i disagree w this as parenting methods)--i think *everyone* is miscommunicating. the sister/op isn't mad that her brother won't see the stepfamily as family, she's mad bc her brother who she loves is shitting on something that she feels is positive & helping her through her complicated feelings.
the brother likely isn't actually hateful towards stepdad and the stepsisters. he's traumatized and struggling to communicate his feelings bc he's young, and so he lashes out.
and the mom likewise is likely still reeling from the betrayal of their biodad and struggling to regain footing in a new family situation and relationship, and her children's behavior is something that she's having trouble knowing what to do with because it's incredibly stressful and she likely feels responsible in some way.
which is to say nothing of the possible (very likely) negative influence of the biodad, manipulating the brother into lashing out and being even more emotionally conflicted. which was the focus of the comments here in this thread to begin with.
@@randomripoff123 I wasn't really disagreeing with you.
But I am now, she has no reason to call her father sperm donor. But it might make sense if she is her mom's confidant through it all just like the original comment said happens with fathers and sons.
Also, her brother really does have a different experience from her. And is clearly happy with his father.
And this codependent relationship with her mother might explain why she felt she had the authority to control his relationships; and her mom calling her to cry when the son left and wouldn't come back.
The mother, after grounding him for most of two years makes me think not only does she not see her mistake but thinks the cheating is so severe that all mistakes after either don't count or can be excused by trauma.
“She has no reason to call her father sperm donor”? How do you know that? I think that’s the point of the original comment. There are a lot of complexities on all sides and we don’t know the full story. And we can just as easily assume one side is in the right versus the other. Personally, all sides seem to have a lot of deep seeded issues to work through on their own and hopefully at least some of the relationships can be salvaged.
If the bio father in the first one sucks that much, I'm gonna have to defend the use of sperm donor. You have to actually make a solid effort to earn the title of dad in my eyes. Beyond that, I won't defend op on that one.
I don't know... I mean the worst we know of him was meted out on their mom. And it wasn't abuse but rather infidelity. And for her brother to be willing to go back to him and happy there means that's likely it.
It's absolutely valid that OP calls him sperm donor, and absolutely valid that the brother calls him Dad. It's shitty of OP to invalidate her brother's relationship with his dad just because she's upset. She's rightfully upset at her sperm donor for sure, but she doesn't get to poop on HIS experiences with his dad.
Both are valid experiences and ways to cope with it (except him being shitty to the step siblings if they aren't being assholes themselves).
People look at the world and expect to see mirrors, and get angry when they find windows instead. It's true that there are some things that can't be tolerated (racism et al), but we need to appreciate the windows around us and enjoy seeing how other people see the world differently
That's a nice saying :)
I know you said ultimatums are never good but I recently had to give one to my mother. She moved to Spain in 2020 with her husband, my stepdad and since then her relationship with me and my brother has become very strained. She has become a lot more self centred and egotistical in recent times and it started to feel like she stopped caring about me and my brother. I will preface this by saying my brother is 30 and I am soon to be 25. Before living in Spain she was living in a semi rural part of Cheshire on the borders of middle class society. A far cry from her working class roots living in a tiny council flat being raised by her widowed former coal miner father in a more industrial city. It felt like she was erasing her working class roots. She has also become a lot more Tory in her political leanings in recent times which caused further strain between me and her because I am a lot more liberal in my political leanings. It got to a point where it felt like my mother didn't really know or understand who me and my brother are as people now as adults. And she doesn't want to know or make the effort to ask about our lives. She doesn't ask about our friends or my brothers job or my return to the education system. She stopped being a mother in pretty much every way you can think of. Every conversation with her ended up revolving around her life, her husband, her dog, her house and her books that she is writing. It got to a point over the weekend where my mother called me selfish because I didn't send her a card for mothers day. I then kind of snapped and expressed all my feelings and how the way she has been acting sucks and me and my brother don't want or need that energy in our lives because we are in good places in our lives and I did give her an ultimatum. I told her to make active changes and prove to me and my brother that you do care and and want to make the effort or we are both done with you. She then went off messenger and blocked us. She made her choice. She has essentially chosen not to repair things with her own children and chose her life in Spain instead. Sometimes ultimatums expose hard truths. It may make things ugly but it leaves everything out on the table.
Ouch. It seems like you mom felt she could just wipe the slate clean and start a new life once she “finished” being a mom. At least she stuck around till you were legal adults. That’s gotta gotta sting though. I’m really sorry.
Maybe one day you’ll be able to rebuild a different kind of relationship, if not I hope you (and her, I guess) have happy fulfilling lives separate from one another. I also hope you’re chosen family is of a highly quality than the one chance dealt you.
@@mikaylaeager7942 thanks for your kind words and I do have good people around me who I can turn to. I have a good relationship with my dad and step mum.
The last post, I'm so enraged, I wish I could strangle that husband. Omg literally EVERYthing she had "extra" was something she ABSOLUTELY NEEDED. I bet he wouldn't have even lasted 2 hours with that kind of pain without begging for the medication!
I can't even fathom that last husband. I find it really difficult to believe that this is the first time he would have been an aashole about finances, but maybe I am biased. Seven years into marriage and he's being so petty about hospital bills for HIS BABY 😵💫😵💫😵💫😵💫
I think people go to the divorce option to quickly sometimes but in that last case it is so warranted. She needs to, if this is his reaction to the necessary health care of his wife and child I can only imagine more horrible reactions from him in the future.
Also, that last story: I'd probably leave someone for less.
I want to know what insurance the last couple had! Only $4,000 after all that?! That's just the cost of an ambulance ride in my area!
OMG, that last one!! I hate to see what it would have been like if they had a situation like mine. Week long hospital stay before giving birth due to health issues, emergency c-section, and then Little remained in the hospital for 3 months. He is half the reason they have a baby! Of course, he contributes!! That's what you do in a partnership like that. I hope she left him.
#2 NTA Nobody is the TA for not wanting to spend very limited vacation time with people, babies, or pets they don't want to. Add in the expense of paying for flights AND being stuck in the same house, if you aren't feeling it you don't owe it to anyone to go.
#1 My half-siblings (5 & 8 years older) were envoys of me, growing up. I got to live with our mom & grandma, with them visiting every other weekend for most of my life. When my sister turned 14 she was able to successfully emancipate herself from her father's new family (2 half-brothers & a step-brother), and come to live with us. But she & I still didn't get along.
It wasn't until I was in my early 20s that we talked it out and really learned to accept each other. Years later, and we are the best of friends.
As for my brother, he tried to be the "man-of-the-house" during the weekend, along with tormenting me when I wasn't manly enough for him (I'm a trans-woman, btw). And that rift has never fully healed. We tolerate each other. There's familial-love... but not acceptance.
As for the "sperm donor" comment about the bio-dad... That sounds like it comes from a place of anger, that may be rightfully given (imo). She did say bio-dad cheated on her mom. We don't know the full context, but I do know how I feel toward my bio-dad. For years it was a venomous hatred that ate away at my soul. Getting only my mom & grandma's side of things, he treated her less than dirt.
But now, I kinda want to find him. At the very least, I'd like to meet my half-siblings from his side of the family.
It sounds to me like both the brother & sister need to grow up. I believe there is still a chance for their family to heal. The children, all of them, just need some space & time to mature. Of course, they also have to want it.
with that last guy id like to see HIM go through 38 hours of pain with one of those pain simulation machines, if he thinks you could have lasted another 14. insane of him, throw the whole man out.
Also, at the time she had no way of knowing whether it would be 30 more minutes or 14 hours or 20 hours.
First story 2 cents: My vote is ESH. Yes she's wrong for trying to force him to feel a different way by giving him an ultimatum. BUT her parents are also bad. If he has that much animosity toward the new family members two years in, and their parents only response is "You're grounded" they mega suck too. And the brother also sucks. Just because he's having a hard time emotionally or situation wise with the divorce; does not excuse him being a jerk or hurtful to other people. Immaturity does not equal innocent. Actions still have consequences despite maturity level. And she has every right to distance herself from him if he makes her upset or uncomfortable. Everybody Sucks Here.
The relationship between the first OP's brother and the stepfather seems strained, which likely bled over onto his relationship with the stepsisters. If he had a better relationship with the step-father he might have been able to develop a bond with the stepsisters (though not guaranteed) but if he feels targetted by the stepfather that would be impossible.
FINALLY SOMEONE TALKING ABT THE STEPFATHER. It is not OPs fault that she and he feels this way, the parents need to be more understanding. No wonder OP and her brother are unhappy
On the first story, I think ESH is right, mostly because the brother sounds like he's being pretty cruel to the younger step siblings.
For the first one, as an older sibling who had a very difficult relationship with younger sibling growing up, it was giving I'm better than you because I do accept step family vibes and from my experience that's the OPPOSITE of productive. OP probably needs a few years to realize that, I know I did, but giving her brother space and coming at it from an equals perspective when he's a bit older too is probably the best way to go
That likely wouldn't go through OP's head, when the brother is older, so will she, OP will likely keep trying to bully him into her way of thinking until he cuts her out of his life.
A good point. I remember my brother and I talking about our parents divorce (as adults) and me being surprised he didn't have similar views to mine. He just shook his head and said, "You weren't there. You don't really know what was going on with everyone." I was away at college and I heard a lot things then and subsequently, but it's true that his lived experience was different and had a different view. I think I thought I knew more/better because I was older and further away from it. I was mistaken. The difference being, I was able to process it differently. My dad remarried a woman with a much younger child (there's a 19 year gap between us), and I have no real relationship with her, while my brother lived with her and treats her much more like a sibling. It's fine! I cannot imagine how I'd feel as an adult if he flung these sorts of accusations at me about how I should feel about our stepsister, let alone as a teenager whose lived experience is extremely different.
They shouldn't "split" the hospital bill. It should be coming out of their joint account. How do you decide to bring a baby into the world and not even discuss how you're going to afford it? What else have they not discussed?
I kinda wonder if maybe he doesn't *have* the money because he wasn't expecting it to cost as much as it did, and now he's feeling ashamed or emasculated or some such. Even then, his reaction is completely inappropriate. This is not the kind of person you want raising a child.
I'm glad you convinced me on the first one. I almost became a hypocrite because my relatives constantly pressured me to "act like a family" with them, but I don't love them and see them as family.
the wife from the last story should get the husband to use one of those birth pain simulators for as long as she was in labor before the epidural, see if he wants her to pay in full then.
The sister in the first story annoyed me. Her brother isn't even the asshole for saying he won't love or invite his stepsisters to his occasions. He isn't obliged to have a relationship with them. The OP was absolutely unreasonable for expecting her brother to approach their father, stepfather, stepsisters the same as her. He's allowed his own feelings and judgement. Even if their father was a cheating asshole, he's perfectly valid for forgiving his father and maintaining a relationship. A sister has no right to tell her brother to cut off their father because she did so? And if cheating was the bad thing their father did and was otherwise a good father, her brother is even more justified.
Yayyyy I've been waiting for this all week! Love you Shaaba, you always brighten up my day and your videos are really calming ❤❤❤❤
+
Oof I gotta say, that first story hit very close to home. My mom remarried shortly after my dad died when I was 18, and it took me a looong time to be even vaguely okay with her new husband, and his sons, who are all lovely people, but I def had a lot of baggage to unpack there and still dont refer to them as family 10 years later. My older sister howeverly openly embraces them and calls them her "brothers" and always gives me shit for not doing the same. Ended up blowing up at her one christmas when she got upset at me for not wanting to buy them gifts and shouted at her that they werent my family, and it turned into quite the shouting match. Somewhat validating to see that someone else has such similar issues. What is it about older sisters being so jazzed to get new siblings lol
For the first story I don't think people are giving OP the same benefit of the doubt that they're giving the brother. I feel like they're being held to different standards. OP has fully accepted these people as family and to have their sibling, assuming that hes her only sibling with a direct connection to their father, reject her family probably feels like a betrayal. It probably feels like, "hey I know our mothers happier and more well off now that they're in a relationship after being cheated on and I know you've built a connection with these people and consider them family but I'm going to reject that because I can't handle my emotions." Even if thats not the case, it's probably how it feels, its a slap in the face. The brothers actions are 100% hurtful and from what I can gather OP has tried giving him time to adjust and he hasn't, which isn't his fault it probably hurts a lot.
We can't forget that this is OPs brother and shes not just cutting him off on a whim, obviously they care about family if they're this loyal to their step family. As for the grounding, that is out of OPs control, that shows me that the issues may be caused more by the parents than anything. OP is also a confused kid. how does OP being obviously hurt make them the asshole? They've said the exact same thing their brother has said. Why is it ok for the brother to act out because hes hurt but not OP? Because of age? Age doesn't dictate how hurt you're allowed to be.
I'd just like to extend the same benefit of the doubt to them as the brother seems to be getting.
Lol, we call my older siblings dad a sperm donor all the time if and when he’s ever brought up. He’s thee worst piece of work and I’m so glad they all see that and consider my bio dad their dad :3 I’m blessed with such awesome brothers and sister. I miss them more and more every day and wish we weren’t all in different parts of America 😭😭😭 I feel so lost trying to be the older sibling to our little brother. My whole life I’ve been the youngest and all of a sudden the older 3 left and it’s just become us 2 with my parents. I can’t help but feel like I’m just the most disappointing, lamest older sibling. But I’m trying to be the best I can be, given my circumstances 😭😭😭
As a step parent to three teenagers I don’t like when other people don’t include step family as equal. That said I developed relations with mine based on mutual comfort levels. And verrry yes often divorce effects different siblings especially different sex siblings differently
I think treating them equally is different to recognizing that there are complex feelings involved that shape how relationships grow and adapt. I'd be furious if a visiting grandparent took bio-kids out for a treat and left step-kid behind alone, for instance - that's not equal treatment. But I would understand if step-kid didn't want to call visiting step-grandparent Grammy right away - that's developing relationship. It's all something that should default to equally inclusive behavior while recognizing that equal participation may require time to navigate.
10:00 yeah, people get to make their own choices. Some have babies, some have dogs, some have both, some have neither. But: they (the babies and the dogs) are family members. You don't need to love them or take responsibilty for them (if they aren't yours) but you need to accept that someone else does. A parent to a dog OR human child can't just leave them at home, they are responsible. And they shouldn't have to. If you all go: it's his responsibility that the dog doesn't slobber your face (or that of your toddler), and it's your responsibility that the toddler doesn't pull the dog's tail.
If you don't want that, stay at home. Your brother has a right to share his life with a dog.
Without add ons, the mother could have died??? WTH
Yes, people have gone into shock, comas, or even died just from the pain alone of giving birth, if you need drugs and time to rest after pushing another human being out of your body, take it. Wil say though, I think the american health system is also the asshole in this situation because having to pay to give birth makes absolutely no sense to me.
Oof...as someone who's given birth twice, I can imagine how slapped in the face I would feel in her position. I don't care what kind of birth, what you felt you needed in that moment (because if you felt you needed it, then you damn well needed it), etc. It's his baby too and he shouldn't be treating her like this after all that she went through for not only giving birth, but spending almost 10 months feeling all of the things your body does when it's making a baby. It's a lot to go through.
I really liked that one comment...if my child was treated that way, I'd be livid. But, I could see myself putting up with it (which thankfully is so far from how my partners treated me after I gave birth)...something to think about.
The last one is just disgusting. Sadly I’ve seen other women talk about being made to shoulder the cost of childcare and other kid-related expenses by abusive partners and I just don’t get it. That child is 50% here because of you. This woman would not be giving birth if it weren’t for your contribution. You should be falling over yourself to contribute seeing as she’s so far taken the lion’s share of physical and emotional labour in carrying and birthing your child. I wouldn’t be surprised if he keeps up this kind of behaviour as the kid grows up and I don’t know if OP will be able to get over the lack of support and detachment he’s showing 🙁 it was interesting actually to hear Hannah Witton’s thoughts about this lately. She’s had to pay for some post partum medical care, clothing, tools etc and asked to split the cost with her husband. I think I’d have automatically assumed the mother would pay for that until I heard her explanation on how it’s to benefit the whole family, not just her
😵💫😤🤬. Aaaaaaaa that last one had me all out screaming at my phone! 😂
That last story just... imagine being kicked full force in the nuts every five ish minutes for an entire day and it's your partner's fault! I'm sure this man would expect compensation, honestly screw that dude, she should leave him reguardless of whether or not he ends up paying half, he sounds like a piece of actual garbage.
A summary of #2
Wife's body: Functions
Husband: Wft is wrong with you?
Omg the birth one. Take his name off the birth certificate since he didnt pay for the child.
‘My body already paid the price babe’
*throws the hospital bill at husband*
3:42 op also doesn't have to spend time with someone who's mean to their family - even if it's another family member. i think she would've been fine with her brother not calling his stepdad dad, but she's not ok with him excluding his siblings from his life
8:39 or the guy is just concerned for his kid's safety bc the dog is an animal, and animals can be unpredictable
9:35 sure. but those people can just not go on that trip, just like op's planning on doing
10:46 the partner most definitely won't bite their child or endanger them in any other way, yk
That's not the same as literally bullying people in liking your family, maybe the step-sisters and brother have a bad relationship or something.
Second story: YTA
If OP doesn't want to be around the dog, that's his choice to make.
But it seems like he tries to make his brother the villain of the story, summing up reasons that would make more people want to stay away from OP's child instead.
A dog on a plane is generally kept with the cargo, meaning OP wouldn't even be able to see the dog for the duration of the flight.
Meanwhile, OP's brother will be subjected to the child's crying.
As a commenter said: the dog can be left at the house while they go out to a restaurant, but the child will have to come along for everything they do.
And let's not act like an 18 month old is a newborn baby.
It's past the baby phase at that point, and old enough to learn how to read and handle dogs, so they won't end up being as scared as OP, who apparently thinks a well behaved dog being in the child's presence is a terrifying thought.
This isn't just "not being a dog person"
There's more going on that OP needs to work on, because this is directly affecting his child.
My kids met dogs shortly after being born, to teach the dogs about babies, and to allow the children to grow up knowing the dos and don'ts of handling them.
Never alone, and always keeping a close eye on the reactions of both the child and the dog.
This way, neither of them grew scared, but they'd be cautious where necessary.
I do agree with the middle one about the family vacation - OP is not the asshole for not wanting to go. They're allowed to not like dogs and not want to go. But... I also can completely understand the "YTA" badges, too, and not just because of the baby vs dog situation. For one thing, if this family vacation is a bit of a tradition and an opportunity to see loved ones that you don't live near, and that's something that's important to OP/the family, then it becomes a case of "which is more important, the dog or the family dynamic?" So OP can choose not to go on the vacation but needs to understand that there will likely be hurt feelings and consequences thereof, of other people feeling like OP is being selfish and putting "the dog issue" as more important than the family. It'd be a different story if the dog posed some kind of danger or threat - a major allergy, a history of bad behavior or biting, something like that. But just "I don't like the dog" doesn't seem like a strong enough reason to override that family obligation bond, especially if it's been several years between visits. Determining whether that makes you an asshole or not though depends entirely on the family - if they're all pretty chill about it then no assholes here, but it doesn't sound like they will be, otherwise OP wouldn't have been prompted to ask this question on a public internet forum.
Another thing to consider in the asshole equation is that blink-and-you-miss-it line of "If I don't go, the trip might fall apart." If the family booked a VRBO (Vacation Rental By Owner, btw), that's often a larger property and might have involved a deposit and/or may be too expensive to afford without OP and whatever their contribution to the trip would have been. We don't know if there are other details like reservations for activities that won't work without a critical mass of participation or non-refundable deposits on other things, etc. So backing out of the trip might be causing not just hurt feelings but actual financial loss for others, in which case OP might be a bit of an asshole unless they offer to make such losses whole.
He should have fulfilled her's every wish after holding out this incredible pain for 24 HOURS. She is a fighter. This man truly does not have one ounce of empathy in his body. Definitly also thinks periods are gross and that people who have them make way to much of a fuss about the pain and side effects (not mention the monthly costs). I mean If he even thinks child birth is a piece of cake I wouldn't expect getting support or comfort from him every cycle. HUGE RED FLAG!
Usually, when dogs are too affectionate, there's a lack of training.
with the last story, what happens when the kid breaks their arm? or has to go to the dentist? will it be her responsibility because she gave birth? the husband's logic of it being her birthing therefore she has to pay the money is so messed up and it will set a precedent for the rest of their child's life. the mom needs to file for a divorce and get him to pay chid support
Yeah exactly. Is it only going to be HIS child sunday afternoons when there's no work to do around the kid?!
My father was nothing more than a sperm donor. He never wanted children and I was a compromise he wasn't ok with. I was treated horridly, he is abusive in almost every way and was even angry that I was taken to restaurants despite me being dragged to them. He held me once as a baby because my mother made him. My parents finally divorced when I was 15 and I was thrilled. I eventually confronted him and he said the 15yrs of abuse didn't happen. Sometimes sperm donor fits, I just refer to him by his first name if I have to speak of him. He's also a pedophile (not of me). Now tell me just how mean that term is to the poor poor men who treat their children this way..
I'm sorry that happened to you. That's awful. ❤
The one with the dog- I don't think OP is TAH for not wanting to go. Dog+baby=stressful, not a relaxing vacation. I also don't think that dogs are the same as babies. Depends on the dog obviously, but not all are harmless- dogs can be dangerous if they're not well trained and lots of people are allergic to them. Not the case in this situation, but I have personal experience of family trying to bring dogs to events- meaning that other family members won't be able to come because of allergies.
Sperm donor is very much an internet thing, people nowdays call bad fathers
Shaaba, I don't think you're being too kind, it's just that AITA is aggressively biased toward pets. I 100% understand the concern about the dog around the baby, and if I were OP I would have already discussed ground rules with the brother to that end. But there's also a difference between feeling indifferent to dogs and actively disliking them. If the dog's presence would ruin the trip for OP, it makes sense for them to back out. As an autistic person, the mere existence of someone else in my space can be too much for me. So when I move the moment other people show up, it's not personal, I just want to get away from the discomfort. So while I love dogs, I totally understand OP not wanting to have to deal with a dog they can't stand for a week. And even if the rest of the trip falls apart, that wouldn't be their fault - it's not their job to endure the situation just so everyone else can have fun.