Hogaak vs Rakdos Scam | Quarterfinals 4 - Quest for the Best Modern Deck Ever
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- What was the best Modern deck ever? We made our community vote for one deck to represent each year since 2011, played four rounds of Swiss, and now we bring you each match of the Top 8. Jamin is playing Thoralf and either Hogaak or Grief could be knocked out of the tournament.
🧟🤬 Decklists: bit.ly/3LO5ufa
Find the breakdown of the Swiss matches here: bit.ly/46l6Kyc
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🧟🤬 Decklists: bit.ly/3LO5ufa
Find the breakdown of the Swiss matches here: bit.ly/46l6Kyc
Ah yes, Hogaak-less Hogaak vs Scam-less Scam, truly the matchup of the century.
I dunno, turn 2 blood moon can be considered kinda scammy.
If scam is so strong that it doesn't even need to get it's main win condition going to shut off the opponent's what can you do
@@iclimbeverything2990the scam isn't the win condition - It's just a brutally efficient midrange deck.
@@Ozuar It's a really strong midgame that every once in a while utterly screws an opponent turn 1. Really brutal deck to play against.
It's mostly scam having a ton of maindeck hate that lines up well@@iclimbeverything2990
I think that not going for thoughtseize T1 for jamin was really detrimental
Fr I feel like he would've turned the corner
That was a really weird choice against a deck that can Grief and resurrect it on turn one.
If he had only had a single land it might have made more sense if he was trying to hit 2nd land for wayfinder.
But yeah generally turn 1 thoughtseize is gonna be the strongest play, when on the play in most case particuarly against scam.
I was thinking that, but the 2nd VW was coming regardless. Maybe buys 1 turn, but it's likely not making a drastic difference. Scam just had the perfect anti-hogaak draws. Sometimes it happens
yeah both games I feel like looting on 1 was just the wrong line. but this is really just entertainment content and not actually showcasing decks at their best potential. maybe it's actually more reflective of the average game that most of us would witness in person considering the card market guys are considerably stronger players than the average FNM enjoyer.
I saw the video length and I thought “oh, that makes sense. Hogaak wins twice in 10 minutes.” Everyone who was playing during the Hogaak days remembers how insanely dominant that deck was in all its iterations. The way Scam just trumped it like it was nothing really shows how insane the power level of modern has become. Crazy stuff.
jamin played badly in the second game, he should have toughtseized first.
To be fair. Scam works hard to prevent graveyard decks from doing anything. Scam is a hard counter to hoogaaak
That Blood Moon was brutal, holy crap. What an insanely powerful deck, well piloted Thoralf!
A blind squirrel with his ears could have piloted that broken deck to win :D
@@jii-ro7083 agreed. I dont think scam is very difficult to pilot haha
@@jii-ro7083non basic land user eat your heart out
@@eavyeavy2864I mean you say that but even monored burn is disfavored in the matchup
@@eavyeavy2864 nobody is talking about the blood moon lul
This being 13 minutes just proves how strong one of these decks is. Can’t wait to see it!
Was it the deck you expected it to be
@@BoltTheEmolgayes. MH1 had some dumb cards, but MH2 supercharged the whole format
@@JonaxIIhogaak beat scam in Swiss, Jamin had really bad draws
@@JonaxIIThis is a case of better lucky then good. Scam saw both Moon and Voidwalker while Gaak just, wiffed.
Jamin just misplayed pretty hard, you can't let ragavan just attack, he needed to play feeder and then brutality on 2 modes turn 2 discarding faithless, this makes blood moon go away, he also needed to fetch for at least a basic swamp because he knows blood moon exists, you can't just not get basics, ignoring ragavan like it's some vanilla 2/1 snowballed quickly, game 2 as well faithless looting was just a mistake, thoughtsneeze makes the game completely different, it's just not correct to randomly fire looting when your hand has what you need anyway
Hey, gotta say, ya'll have the best editors in terms of keeping the game state clear and readable. Magic can get complicated, but I can always easily follow these games. Well done!
Might as well rename it Carlmarket at this point 😏
Thank you! This series is my baby so I put a particular extra effort into these :) I'm happy it pays off and that people like you enjoy it :D
Seconded. Love it. ESPN level
Game one against scam feels like a post board matchup.
I was thinking the same, and Hogaak list didn't look like the Hogaak list that crushed in its time. A little bit anticlimatic, but, that's magic sometimes.
We even thought of reshooting, but that felt unfair. We player the list Jamin top 4'd a GP with, right before it was banned. This list crushed the Swiss, but it just got really unlucky this game 😐
@@CardmarketMagic Magic is like that sometimes, wouldn't have been fair to reshoot it, since lucky/unlucky draws always plays a factor.
@@CardmarketMagicgaak took the L here but I think it would be neat to see an exhibition match so we can see gaak do gaak things and scam do some scam things
@@CardmarketMagicI think you made the right choice, but I would love to see a rematch after the tournament
Man, that's incredible how one sided this was! I was not expecting Hogaak to fall that quick!
I thought the same thing, since it looked like hogaak just didn't get the right pieces. Turns out, Hogaak went 2-1 against rakdos scam in the Swiss rounds.
yeah guess that happens when one side draws the nuts and the other side draws nothing.
@@akorthouweri dont know, Hogaak had pretty decent hands, Scam just ruins good hands and maindeck Voidwalker Is a beating. It's probably a bad matchup in general, Bowmaster even makes Lootings hurt a lot and snipes almost every creature in the deck.
Spoilers!!!:😂
@@OsvaldoChannel1 what does a "pretty decent hand" for Hogaak look for you? because both of Jamin's hands were mulls to 6 that had no real action aside from hoping to rip something off the top with a looting, which failed to find anything interesting both games. I struggle to imagine worse Hogaak hands beyond obvious mana screw/flood.
A strong argument could be made that both hands were pretty obvious mulligans, though going to 5 is obviously dicey, and the lootings were pretty unlucky.
I gotta say, as someone who basicly didn't play during the Hogaak era, I was kinda looking forward to seeing the deck in action. Instead we got a showcase of the kind of scam non-games that I see every friday at FNM :-(
Obviously not your fault though! I think the series is still amazing and toffel vs jamin is always a good time. I'm just really hoping scam loses next match. Also, please do something with Hogaak for the channel at some point to show off the deck to scrubs like me 😅
There are loads of videos from the hogaak tournaments online, the deck consistently does way more than scam ever could. It just got punished really really hard here by prison cards (turn 2 blood moon on the play???) and this build was a really slow one.
They actually have covered Hogaak summer vs Eldrazi winter! th-cam.com/video/5PzhKpaxWQc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=tWs2lZW2YeCY5QzV
I like Thoralfs hat. And I like Jamins glasses. For the match...I was really worried about blood moon in this one. Sometimes magic players have to get reminded that blood moon exists :D
I think this brilliantly showed off how scammy scam can be even without pulling off the combo.
Shout out to Rhystic Study for irreversably making me assosciate Hogaak with Elton John's Bennie and the Jets.
I just love you guys and Carl, play good magic, always happy and feel good. We need more positive content around the world, and their are a lot of salty magic players, so seeing people playing magic for fun is awesome.
I'm happy you enjoy our videos :) we put a lot of love and effort into our content! Thank you for the kind comment
Very surprised to see hogaak not being the version running bridge or altar of dementia
No asassins trophy or fatal push too is very surprising, both Michael graham and Simon Nielsons gp winning decks ran at least 1 maindeck. I'm not a pro by any stretch of the imagination but is there a reason why the hokaak list in the video differs from the gp winning variations?
@@hernalius7630they might have used the hogaak deck they personally owned
Yeah, glowspore shaman just seems very underpowered by comparison
Bridge/altar was the combo version of the hogaak deck and despite being insanely powerful it was also inconsistent, the aggro version (post bridge ban) is considered by most to be the more powerful version of the deck for consistency reasons. I am surprised to not see assassin's trophy in the deck though.
@@Quiggles-bf2oh
Na man. Bridge Hogaak was consistent af. They only reason it felt less consistent was ppl playing 4 leylines in their main deck.
Wow this is insane! I didn't expect for hogaak to do nothing :o
:O
This felt like one of those "This is why the game is actually played" matches where gaak seemed way better on paper but Jamin got really unlucky/misequenced in his early turns. I think we are going to see Eldrazi and 12 Post in the finals though with Eldrazi probably winning the whole bracket at this stage
Eldrazi is literally a worse 12 post, it has no outs other than 'oops all mimics + smasher' hand which is very rare.
They both 'cheat' on mana in their own ways but one deck has the far better threats, you can play 12 post vs eldrazi 100 times and Eldrazi will take like 3, that's just how it goes when both decks do the same thing and one just does it better, sadly this version of 12 post isn't the one that runs 0/5 walls but it can chump sac with steve and it can gain unreal amounts of life with glimmerpost, it's not a fair fight.
However... and this is where it gets sketchy, 12 post may lose to scam, because scam shreds the hand and 12 post doesn't have the tools to recover from a shredded hand or from a blood moon early
it's sad but I think it's going to be Eldrazi vs scam and Eldrazi is much better equipped to handle hand disruption than 12 post is but it's not easy to predict it because it's not a bad matchup for scam since Eldrazi is about being explosive rather than being resilient, T1 greed and blink or turn 2 blood moon and this just goes Scam's way and Eldrazi (much like 12 post) can get chalice on 1 but the scamlementals aren't 1 drops so it's not as effective as vs death shadow for example
Welp. As one of the ppl that thought Gaak would win I was surprised. I also was thinking they would be running the list with Bridge From Below though 👀
The list with bridge is generally considered to be the worse version of the deck. This list is the one that lead Hogaak to being undefeated in the Swiss rounds for this, even beating scam. It just got unlucky here and thoralf drew perfectly
@@CardmarketMagic And even if he went thoughtseize t1 in game 2 (if grief discards looting you just flashback it) it wouldn't have mattered because the 2nd one was coming
Thoralf looks very dapper in his top hat! loving all the content guys, the quality of content is outstanding, keep up all the hard work.
Seeing hogaak crumble before scam made me physically recoil. Damn, we are reaching levels of power creep i never thought were possible.
To be fair, Thoralf had the absolute nuts draw in both games that completely shut out Hogaak while Jamin kept hands that were meh at best. He also had exactly zero outs to Blood Moon in Game 1, since Caterpillar requires Green to cast and activate, and he had no sources of Green outside of nonbasic lands.
Scam also saw both Moon and Voidwalker while Gaak saw nothing.
If Jamin asks me to comment, I guess I must. I've been watching this channel for a few months now and adore the content! I discovered this channel through a youtube short of Carl's "I'm a Spike" (masterful). You all are hilarious and great at making the game digestible for any level of player. Jamin is insightful and curious, Carl is creative and good at improvising, plus Thoralf never fails to make me smile and think more critically about my gameplay/deck construction.
If you guys collaborated with Tolarian Community College one day, that'd be even sicker than a 1/2 Flyer for [C][U] that pitches to Force!
What an absolutely kind comment :D Jamin asked you to comment, not bring a tear to our eyes :P I'm happy you enjoy our content, we put a lot of effort and love into it! We did almost collaborate with the Prof, but in the end, traveling so far to make content ended up being complicated. But it's hopefully still in the cards for the future :)
This has quickly become my favorite magic channel
I love these videos, y’all are absolutely my favorite MtG YTers by a mile! Shocked to see how hard Hogaak went down, but not *that* shocked. Scam is a terrifying deck!
I'm happy you enjoy our videos :) we put a lot of effort and love into them!
The last turn of second game Scam technically cheated, it doesn’t matter to the outcome, but they dashed Ragavan the turn before and didn’t return monkey to hand and swung with it the turn after dashing.
Another nitpick, why didn’t Hogaak ever flashback faithless looting game one? It was an option for three turns that could’ve drawn a basic or binned something silly
I think this match showcases just how much modern needs an update to its banlist 😂
I love this channel so much, you guys are doing amazing-I'm excited for the rest of the top 8 matches!
I'm happy you enjoy them :) this is my favourite series to make! I'm happy to have you watching it
YES! Rakdos scam is probably one of my all-time favorite decks so glad to see it moving on!
Was not expecting Hogaak to topple so quickly! Well done Toffel, bring on the semifinals!
This is my favorite series of yours please do more stuff like this - Love seeing older decks compete against the newer stuff. I thought for sure hogaak would put up more of a fight
THAT was so unexpected!! Amazing, soul crushing games.
Scam has truly earned its name!! Love these series, would be really fun to see something similar with Legacy, albeit it is a bit of a different format compared to Modern and Type 2.
Haven't played magic in 20 years and I watch these videos because they are hilarious.
Shoutout to everyone in the community post that said Hogaak will take this one easy 🎉🎉
Game 1 at least would have looked much different if Jamin was on the play. While I'm not sure what the actual match-up% would be I am saying Toralf had exceptionally powerful draws against the match-up both games while Jamin had rather medium opening hands. But, that's just how it goes sometimes.
@@joeldykman7591yup. Also in the swiss Hogaak beat Scam 2-1 in r4
Maybe that's called mulligans into still bad hands for Hogaak, and the nuts draws for Rakdos the entire time. Matches like this make me feel like these should be best of 5.
@@d.barrett578 "Nuts" draw is a bit of a stretch. Never saw a single ele scam. Thoralf had sufficient main board hate and drew better. These two decks will swing wildly in either direction on the thinnest of advantages.
This feels pretty far from a representative showing by Gaak, but hey, any given Sunday right?
I really like Thoralf, everytime he's in a video I know I will have a good time!
Thanks for the video!
Although it was a terrible match, it accurately shows the format.
You have an amazing explosive deck, you mulligan, you keep a tolerable hand and get got
I always thought it was called Scam because not paying mana for your spells is cheating.
That's correct
This is normally a poor assumption when it comes to deck names (something logical) but in this case it is accurate.
I love this series. I don't follow competitive modern much but I know if the decks, so it's cool to see how they actually work.
1:22 Look at the bottom left cardmarket logo
Ahhh I seem to have accidentally copied some keyframes 😅
Sad to see Hogaak didn't really get a chance to do it's thing but Scam has such a good matchup against it, that blood moon hurt me
Everyone is going to get scammed in this matchup. No one wins here.
why wasn't the hogaak deck running altar or bridge?
When bridge got banned, people generally agreed that it allowed them to realize the optimal build of hogaak. The aggro build was a beast. It simply plowed through the Swiss rounds. It simply got unlucky here and thoralf drew perfectly
What version of gaak was this, no altar of dementia no bridge from below??? And those keeps were so wild, did the deck ever play glowspore shaman
After the bridge ban, it's generally considered that people found that it helped them find the optimal build of Hogaak. Don't forget that this exact list had the only perfect run in the Swiss. It just got unlucky here and thoralf drew perfectly
Man. When the games are that fast, you should do a gentleman's bonus game at the end, give poor Jamin a chance to play the card his deck is named for.
i saw this coming from a mile away. people were saying things like "a deck that makes you discard two cards vs a deck that wants cards in their graveyard is not a fair matchup".
I love watching the cards that priced me out of keeping my own cube current, win.
Unfortunatly I think Jamin was screwed this time. 13 minutes. Just brutal
we hate to see it
Here I am cheering for Hogaak of all decks
@@mememaster5748 same here, I though it was invincible tbh,
No bridge or altar so it wasn’t the most powerful version
@@DiscardatRandomthis is the strongest version. Everyone was making the joke after the banning that removing Bridge just made it better.
It was the hat! The hat that distracted Jamin😆
Seeing the length of the video already tickles me before even watching. ❤
Huh this is a very different hogaak list than i was expecting , trust you guys on the list more than my knowledge obviously
Most people agree that hogaak got better after the bridge from below ban. We are playing the list Jamin won a Grand Prix with, which left Hogaak undefeated in the Swiss. It just had a poor showing in this game :)
@@CardmarketMagic ☝️🤓 he didn't win, you said in the video he top 4'd
Wow I was expecting Hogaak to win but it got crushed! Truly shows the power of newer cards.
Can’t wait to see the next one!
Damn, there goes my prediction 😂
Really shows the power of scam. Hyper disruption gives you game against almost anything, and when it has it all it just has it all. Can't wait to see how the restb of the matches go!
I think it's fitting that the thoughtseize (sometimes two on t1!), blood moon, maindeck gy hate deck can be flexible and powerful into a field of people up to nonsense haha. That really showed this time.
Sad that we don't get to see the Hogaak deck doing its thing! I've heard so much about this deck but never seen it in action
This is my favorite mtg channel on youtube
This series is the best mtg content on the internet 🙏 gotta hit every format with this beast of an idea
That was so satisfying to see after my prediction the other day lol. And Toffel, your hat is extremely classy; I love it! Keep it up guys. Can't wait to see the next round!
As Always a pleasure to watch, clear info in the overlay, great concept, and decks piloted by people both good at entertaining and at playing Magic. Even if i do not play as much now, it's always a pleasure to watch your videos 😊
I'm happy you enjoy them :) We put a lot of love and effort into them
The presence of Toffel's hat was really instrumental to my enjoyment of this video.
as an mtg boomer who doesnt really play anymore these reminiscent top 8's are just an absolute treat to watch
Really surprised and somewhat disappointed that the hogaak version here wasn't the bridge from below/ altar of dementia version.
That’s not the strongest version of the deck though.
The Altar version is generally considered to be the less reliable and powerful version of the deck. We went with what was widely considered to be the optimal build by Hogaak players at the time :)
The hat is cool. Called it scam just too good. Also nice blood moon play.
This was a very surprising outcome and exactly why this series is so interesting. I had no idea Hogaak used to be this slow 😱
I am kinda sad this isn't a best of five format though since it seems like variance fucked up the Hogaak deck here. There weren't any explosive Hogaak starts at all and the ragavan into blood moon game 1 is just a devastatingly good opening for Rakdos Scam.
That version of hogaak wasn't fast, because they took the post bridge from below ban version. It's not the strongest / fastest version of hogaak
I'm a little bit disappointed tbh.
@@malte54 Yeah, non-Bridge Hogaak is such a baffling choice.
@@Zakading
I mean, maybe they got 2 versions of hogaak and the faster one just didn't make it in the pre matches. That'd be okay then.
Hogaak wasn't slow, this build was just bad + he kept bad hands + he was against turn 2 blood moon going second.
@@malte54This is the strongest build of Gaak.
I seriously doubt anyone had this decklist in mind when they voted for Hogaak
Yeah no way
The deck seems much worse than the Hogaak decks from when Hogaak was around lol
I had the post-ban list in mind. Everyone considered that to be the better version of the deck anyway.
We picked the deck that was generally considered to be the strongest version of hogaak. The bridge list was inconsistent and not as explosive. Don't forget that this exact deck is the only one that went undefeated in the Swiss rounds for this :) it just got unlucky here
Neve been happier to vote for Scam before the video dropped
Great video, saw the length and knew one of the decks was about to work very well
Love the hat. Thoralf has to wear a matching tuxedo for the finals though!
Yeah, Scam really does take after it's father deck Machine head. Quick and brutal mid control / aggro. You either wipe the floor with them or run out of gas FAST. lol
Why is the hogaak list the “fair”one rather than the actual busted list, I feel that seems a little weird as hogaak relied on alter and bridge
Because the bridge version wasn’t the strongest take on Gaak.
Because the version developed after the bridge ban was generally considered to be the much stronger and consistent version. Don't forget that this is the only deck that went undefeated in the Swiss. It just had a bad showing here
Just discovered you guys and I gotta say, probably the best magic gameplay related content out there! Very nice
I'm happy you enjoy our content :) we put a lot of love and effort into it! Thank you for the comment
Can we get a rematch please with the proper Hogaak list containing Bridge and Altar? This was a game with one deck completely knee-capped
Why? This is the stronger build of Gaak. Banning Bridge just made Gaak an even stronger deck.
@@ZakanaHachihaCBC nah the bridge deck was a consistent T2/3 Gaak combo kill
@@thetoastygoat_ And yet collectively everyone agrees that post Bridge being banned was when Gaak was the strongest deck around.
After the bridge ban, it's generally considered that people found that it helped them find the optimal build of Hogaak. Don't forget that this exact list had the only perfect run in the Swiss. It just got unlucky here and thoralf drew perfectly
Thoralf is good at stopping Hogaak from winning tournaments 😄
Let's see if he can do it again
Scam vs Post is going to be interesting, the oldest deck on the list versus the youngest.
This is MH2 vs MH1
It's night and day. Everything that got banned prior to the 2020's should probably be strongly reevaluated, maybe even mass unbanned because that's basically what we need to maybe get one viable new deck into the meta.
I think we need more hats in these videos! (Love the content as always
I think this match shows an interesting detail of what kind of metas these deck lists were going into. Hogaak was dominant during a bit of a combo-y nightmare in modern, and it's low amount of counterplay towards the scam strategy seems to prove that it was more dominant in a less interactive meta
Not the outcome I was expecting! In hindsight, though, it makes a lot of sense. Modern is a brave new world, for better or for worse.
Personally, I miss the day then I learned that Counterspell was being added to Modern. I rejoiced, dreaming of a mono-Blue control deck.
Literally stunned into silence with that one!
Great video, unreal content but holy moly!
The whole thing I don't get about the tournament system you chose is why the best decks from swiss rounds are matched against each other round one of the tournament bracket. Shouldn't it be best vs worst, second best vs. second worst etc.? Otherwise again a great series, keep going with the cool content. :)
We all picked decks we were most comfortable piloting, and then the matchups wetr simply due to logistics. We only had Andrea over for one weekend and Jamin & Thoralf were not available on one of those days. So we had them play their semis the day before Andrea arrived. Then Andrea and I played all our games once he arrived :)
@@CardmarketMagic Ah that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification. :D
Thoralf does have a very nice hat in this video! I like it!
Just when I thought I couldn't hate Scam anymore, it goes and crushes the deck that I think most would consider the most degenerate in the format's history. What a killer.
ALWAYS love the silly outfits and accompanying jokes. Brings me so much joy
Yeah that’s about the length of a video of Scam against the ‘Gaak.
Scam is gonna take this. Just a Ragavan into early Blood Moon completely destroys the other decks which all relies on fancy lands.
i like Thoralf's hat and also Jamin's not so existing hat :D
Well... That's pretty funny that I've guessed wrong at every one of these. 😂
WOW, what a massacre. Good thing I didn’t look at the time beforehand, oh my god 😂
Ya'll forgot the Ragavan dash eot trigger. Also, the proper T1 play for Hogaak game 2 was Thoughtseize. The best play is almost always the one that reduces the opponent's options, *before* maximizing one's own options (which is why T2 Moon in game 1 is better than T2 Fable, for example).
I didn't know Jamin had major competitive success, that's awesome.
The Modern Horizons duel! We’ll have to pit these against next year’s MH3 deck
Yeah, objectively knowing the amount of grave hate and disruption scam has, Jamin really should have TS’ed turn 1. Ripping the Dauthi would have allowed him to do something before that second one came down.
I like when Jamin doesn't wear hats. That's definitely my favorite part.
I love these type of videos. They are a lot of fun and that guy with the hat has such a contagious smile ^_^
Wow, another underdog victory that I called on the voting. Just like with 12 post
Dash ragavan has to go back to hand. Doesn’t matter in this case, but still. It might be relevant to remember that in future videos !
This round needs to be redone with the "real", combo version of the Hogaak deck, with Bridges/Atlars/Etc.
Scam has plenty of tools like Blood Moon and Dauthi that will still pose a problem and Hogaak could definitely still lose.
But this list has zero explosivity to it and is in no way representative of why Hogaak was a problem.
Pitting a full-power Scam deck against a mid-tier fair deck that just happens to have Hogaak in it isn't really the matchup advertised.
exactly
This was actually what is widely considered to he the optimal version of hogaak. It was often said that banning bridge taught players to make a better hogaak deck, and that is just made the deck stronger. Don't forget that this exact build is the only deck that went undefeated in the Swiss rounds for this. Even beating scam. Thoralf simply drew the nuts this game ;)
Haven't watched the video, haven't read the comments but seeing the title "Scam vs Hogaak" and the video being only 13 minutes long makes a lot of sense.
Knew it was gonna be scam. Hogak is a dredge deck at its heart, it’s never been as powerful as The Gaak makes it seem.
It’s matchups like this that always made me like sports. When it comes to tournament play. Matchups is more important then overall strength.
Next big tournament I'll wear a hat as the one Toralf is wearing, it's too cool.
We need a round two of this series with Nadu
The best accidental counter of all time that no one saw coming!