As a newbie in biking, this is a pretty good explanation of the drawbacks tubes have against tubeless. Sadly, I'm one of those people who value cheapness and readyness over quality, tubeless-ready rims and sealant can get very expensive in my country, I'd rather patch up a tube a million times over having to buy sealant. Also, life hack: you can use old tubes as snake bite patches. Just cut wide hoops, clean the insides, and cut them open when necessary. A quarter of a tube can be cut into 10 to 15 hoops, and you can use one of those as a rubber band to tie them together.
Got my first MTB in 1987, never been tempted by tubeless, never been plagued by punctures. There’s no mess when I do have to change them and it’s a two minute job - with the right tyre. And on the subject of right tyres, a few of your anti- tube comments are, in fact, tyre problems, not tube problems.
Most of the tyre problems are actually tubeless rim problems. Non tubeless tyres on non-tubeless rims were a complete pleasure to fit compared to anything where the bead has to pop into place. Just put 15 ish psi in, manually adjust the tyre so it runs straight and pump to the pressure you need. Tubeless has forced people to pump to a much higher pressure than they need to get the bead to seat and then bleed out the extra air - fine at home with a compressor, but doing it on a wide tyre with a small pump trailside is a complete nuisance. The tyre seating process can be sped up by standing on the sidewall of the tyre and leaning the wheel away to pull the bead out in the spots where it hasn't seated, but being able to adjust it manually at very low pressure is so much quicker and easier.
I personally never had any issues with tubes, I run tubeless now, but to be honest I’ve never noticed any difference. Never had a pinch puncture when I used tubes.
Same here, but last summer I needed to change out the Stans so I just put tubes back in. IMO Tubes are fine if you don't ride in thorny areas or if you are not super aggressive on rocky terrain to the point you get pinch flats.
@@Rambleon444 completely agree. I ride in north louisiana south arkansas area and there’s not enough sharp rocks to give me pinch flats and thorns have never been a problem. Honestly I’ve had more flats riding around my campus than riding on the trail lol
Tubes are no hassle at all if you know what you're doing with them; use slime filled tubes and keep the pressures comfortably top side of 30psi. (Running them in the mid-20s is asking for snake-bites - as Doddy demonstrated.) Bit of background: I've been MTBing for over 30 years, lead rides for a living (sometimes) and I'm a trained bike mechanic. I tried tubeless for a few years, but for me... ...meh... ...it was OK... ...until you get a hole that won't seal itself, and ruins your jersey/baggies/sack by spraying latex all over it. OK, when we start talking marginal gains, maybe there's a benefit to going tubeless, and there's a definite advantage if you NEED to run low tyre pressures. But for me and the other 98% of the mere mortals who MTB, it's not really necessary. Not that that will stop people wanting to run tubeless because [insert name of favourite pro] does on their bike. But like most of the 'developments' in cycling, it's as often as not about convincing punters to part with their cash for things they don't really need.
I use inner tubes with the muc off tube sealant in Minion DHRs on my hardtail. Run 28psi on rear and have not had a puncture in about 18 months. Probably cursed my next ride now 😁
Quite possibly the most objective, open & impartial comparison I’ve seen ref: tubes vs tubeless. Thorns are an issue for me in the Wye Valley & FoD & going tubeless for me was a game changer… 2nd only to the dropper post. I carry a Tubolitos as a “get out of jail free card” because it fits beautifully in my Camelback hip bag, weighing nothing and taking up very little space…. that said, I’ve yet to use it. Last summer I pulled 15 thorns out of my front & rear on a single ride, I didn’t notice until I got home and they all sealed when I removed them. I’ll never go back to tubes, but I’m not against them either… they have their place
Same here in southern California. I went from constant slow leaks and swapping tubes about once a months after patching a half dozen holes until you eventually can't find all the leaks. I went tubeless a few years ago and have not had one leak since. Game changer and never going back
I too live and ride in the FOD & Wye valley been using Slime inner tubes for around a year with no problems what so ever. Covered over 1400 miles won’t go back to regular tubes now.
I tried tubeless on my new bike last season. They felt squirmy, and went flat slowly during rides because of all the little thorns. Tubeless doesnt seal instantly all the time. I switched to downhill tubes. I got a more supportive feel from the added material on the sidewall, and no leakage at all. Basically bomb proof. Now i can run my too light weight casing tires until they wear out. I don't mind the weight, as i am 110+kg myself, and got the legs to go with that. I can't tell if I lost traction at all. And most important, i can switch my tires back and forth without the mess. No need to stockpile sealant. No need to top up sealant. No need to worry about the sealant drying in the hot shed in the summer. And also no slushing of sealant when going super slow uphill. I swear this causes friction. Just spin your tire slowly und see how fast it stops. It spins forever with tubes.
I switched to tubeless a couple of years ago and have never found the same feeling as when using tubes, to the point that i think im going to swap back to tubes. Agree about the added support with a tube. Obviously the pressures run with tubes wont be the same as tubeless but even when playing around with the pressures i have never been able to get the same feel. Been contemplating something like a cushcore but in all honesty i cant be bothered with the faffing about when fitting them. Touch wood i have very rarely had punctures with a tube and im similarly 115kg in riding gear running 25 and 28psi front and rear. I always run downhill casing tyres anyway, partly due to my weight, and partly to avoid punctures. The only thing i worry about with tubes is thorns causing punctures, or, pinching the tube when fitting the tyre as my rim/tyre combo is a very tight fit. All in all though, i prefer the stiffer feel of tubes when you are on the side of the tyre, and find i can actually run lower pressures to get nice feel over roots etc without having a squirmy tyre.
I call bs on that. Either your sealant was really not good, your tubeless tape job was really bad or your tires were not tubeless compatible. Most of the times, you wont even notice that you had a puncture with the tubeless. If your tape and tire are fine, sometimes you can get away to run it without any sealant (For about a day, untill you puncture)
A tip when fitting an innertube is to slightly inflate it so when you use the tyre levers the chance of it being caught and pinched is highly reduced. The slime tubes are actually great, I have just replaced the tyres on my sons bike due to wear and as I was pulling the tubes out of the old tyres they seemed stuck and only then I realised the tyres were full of thorns and they were literally "nailed" down. I patched about 10 holes just to be on safe side and reused the innertubes still. Been going strong since 2016. I have had both tubes and tubeless wheel bikes and I prefer the stiffness/extra support of innertubes.
Yeah it really irritates me when I see litter on the trails I'm a keen believer in leaving everything better than you find it n quite often end up picking up other peoples litter
I use little cut sections of inner tubes as a parking brake for my bike, it's nice when your bike is on a frame mount on your car to keep the wheels from spinning while you're driving
Honestly, I've always felt the real difference is the specific tread you go for. Personally, I run tubes as im a little accident prone and I find it much easier to fix on the go (maybe I'm just a bit of a dummy). The real piece of golden advice I can give is that slime inner tubes exist. They're an inner tube with slime sealant in. Basically, I run these as they are a life saver in terms of thorns, I always get home and then normally realise the next day.
@Flippy Dip True in most cases. XC tyres are an exception though as they're designed to be as light and thin as possible so even with the best team issue and high tpi tyres you still get thorns. A slime inner tube is considerably less than the £50/$75 per tyre.
Love the message of this video! Though the dev of innertubes also goes on, the advantages of tubeless setups are hard to beat - I chose one of the lightest 2.4dissector/2.6dhf and threw cushcores in to stiffen the carcass for better cornering performance and overall controllability. Side effect is, that my tires seem to be bullet proof against snake bites now.
I'm using them for convenience. Here in Italy where i live we basically destroy rims without something like a cushcore, tannus armor or something like that. But those cost quite a bit of money. So innertube and 28 psi in the rear while 24 psi in the front. Only down side other than reduced grips it's the pinchflats you get sometimes
I went to tubeless because it was "all the rage". Honestly, don't like it. I used Stan's and what I found is when it's time to redo it is an absolute mess. I spent hours cleaning the rim getting the old dried up sealant off. My guess is I probably waited too long between applications. I'm going to try the lightweight tubes and see how that goes. Never had a pinch flat but then again I'm not an aggressive rider like Doddy.
@@explorenaked For me tubeless is great, I just didn't have much money to keep buying tubeless tires (for 26' wheels they cost like gold) and sealant, plus I didn't see any radical advantages in running tubeless here... It's just rocks... But now that I bought a DH for racing I guess I need to try it again and see how it goes
surprised you run only 28 psi with tubes, especially if you live in a rocky area, id be hitting my rim often with tubeless at 28 psi so can imagine a lot of pinch flats, do you run heavier casing tyres?
@@Ben-tg1sn yes i run heavy tires on all my bikes. DH minis on my commencal Frs and on my enduro (canyon strive 2014) I run magic mary front and back, I have a some videos that show the kind of terrain I ride. I prefer heavier tires with more grip than lighter ones with a cushcore. But as I said I'm on tubeless on my DH bike right now and loving it so far, 24 back and 22 front
You can also get inserts for use with inner tubes which help with pinch punctures and thorns. I use one on my rear wheel as the extra weight doesnt bother me. Tyre tech has come on so much too over the years.
Most modern tyres are actually quite hard to puncture with thorns as a result of better build quality, so thorns are nothing like the problem they once were. Almost every puncture I've had in the past 5 years was due to the tyre being sliced by glass or a sharp rock, and most of those were too big for tubeless sealant to have sealed them, or in the sidewall, where selaant is basically useless. Most tyre issues I have are due to sidewall failures rather than thorn/snakebite related issues, and I run nothing but tubes in my bikes. I went tubeless when the UST system first came out in the early 2000's and again a few years ago and found them to be a downgrade in terms of maintenance hours and time spent repairing punctures trailside when compared to tubes.
Never regretted going tubeless. Where i live i have the same problem as you Doddy THORNS , regular punctures whilst out riding even with tubes with sealant in. Grrrrrr Went tubeless and changed my tyres to Vittoria Barzo's and what a difference! No flats , get home notice thorns in tyres. not had a flat tyre in about 2 years now. Great stuff Doody and GMBNTech
Great video, well done. In conditions I ride in here in Utah I find tubeless is better because I can run lower psi and get more grip compared to tubes. Surprised you didn't do some quick comparisons on weight on the same tire with and without tubeless rating.
I have used inner tubes for years and will continue to do so the pros outweigh the cons i manly ride park on my dh and run thick maxxis tubes and haven’t lost any pressure or had any reason to change to tubeless But it was a interesting video it was awesome to hear the pros and cons on the subject
@@ideapap1 in fairness you can get away with higher pressures on dh bikes because of the extra travel giving you more grip which probably helps you with not getting flats. My bike is 140mm front and rear so tyre pressures have a bigger impact.
Absolutely loved this. So helpful, plus a cheeky vid showing how to change one. As a person fairly new to MTB and had 2 on my last 2 rides, I found this invaluable
quick tip when using inner tubes: use one that's 25% bigger than your tire width. It results in the tube being initially the same width, so it doesn't stretch thin as you fill it up.
I run with a tire and tube on the inside of my tubeless tire. I do this for two reasons. The first is it is much cheaper than running certain inserts. the inner tires are old and bald 700c so they didn't cost anything. The other reason for my setup is it makes it so much easier to get the tubeless tire to seat. The down side is I had to drill a new hole in my rim to take a tube valve as well as the tubeless one (It isn't difficult to set up a tubed valve as tubeless). I run the inner tire between 20-30 psi and I run the outer tire as low as 10 psi to give me a large footprint but still maintain the support given by the inner tire. I don`t have any worries with the weight as it is a ebike I use, the extra grip and comfort more than makes up for it.
You can cut an old tube into elastic strips. Also, you can add sealant to tubes with non-replacable valves with a syringe and a hose. Also (again) some manufactors of sealant says its just fine for tubes, so you dont always need special stuff.
Great vid again Doddy! The key takeaway here is you need to run tubeless if you need to run tubeless ;). Where I am it’s not thorns its cactus. I also run Nukeproof tire inserts. Zero flats (and rim dings) since switching over (3 years running) and I can run any pressure I want for better grip. Tire inserts and tubeless sealant are the single best low cost improvements you can make to your bike. Forget all the endless expensive upgrades that make virtually no difference. If you ride sharp rocky terrain with cactus or thorns you should make the switch. But you don't need it if you don’t need it ;).
Pro tip for repairing tubes, and tyres even. You can use an old tube as the patch and the vulcanising cement. That way you can fix a hole of any size, even in a tyre.
I've never used tubeless, but looking at the amount of tyre sealant required for each tyre, seems to me that it would weigh nearly as much as an inner tube?
@RollinRat I think its all about the terrain where you live. Out here it isnt rocky or extremely vegetated. My previous setup was tubeless, but often suffered from burping due to the low pressure. The grip was great though. On my new bike, the setup is still stock with tubes and honestly, i dont notice anything about it.
What? A basic 27.5 inner tube weights more than 200g, you add less than 100ml of sealant to a tubeless wheel, usually 70ml. If the sealant is twice as heavy as water (it’s not) you still at 160g max /wheel instead of 200+. It’s marginal but it’s there. And yeah, there are superlight tubes, which can be more expensieve than a tubeless conversion but can be overall lighter, and there are sealants for tubes which makes them extra heavy compared to tubeless.
I would fully recommend the bike hut sealant inner tubes for anyone thinking about it. Tried going tubeless but always found there was a slow puncture. So gave up with tubeless and got the sealant inner tubes. Been riding twice weekly for a year with them now and not one puncture!
I switched to tubeless a couple of years ago and have never found the same feeling as when using tubes, to the point that i think im going to swap back to tubes. I also feel there so so much more support in a tyre when running a tube. I hate the feeling of a tyre folding, but with tubes i dont tend to get this anywhere near as much as with tubeless. In terms of tyre pressures, Obviously the pressures run with tubes wont be the same as tubeless but even when playing around with the pressures i have never been able to get the same feel. The whole theory of "you can run lower pressures with tubeless" for me is counterintuitive because as soon as the pressure is reduced the tyre folds and squirms more, so then you have to add more pressure to stop this which then leads to the tyre feeling to hard. I find running a tube gives more stability even when running lower pressures so you get good compliance but none of that horrible collapsing feeling from the sidewall. I have been contemplating something like a cushcore to see if this gives that added feeling of support but in all honesty i cant be bothered with the faffing about when fitting them. Plus, if im putting a cushcore in then it defeats the weight-saving element of tubeless so i may as well just run a tube. Touch wood i have very rarely had punctures with a tube, and in the last 5 years i dont think i have had a single pinch puncture, and im a heavy guy at around 115kg in riding gear. With tubes i was running 25 and 28psi front and rear on a hard tail and had no issues. I always run downhill casing tyres anyway, partly due to my weight, and partly to avoid punctures, but as im not doing any cross country racing im not so fussed about rolling resistance. I would prefer a supportive, strong, grippy tyre for the downhills, and have to work a bit harder on the climbs rather than the reverse. I often ride with a friend who is 66kg, also rides a hardtail but runs either cross country or trail casing tyres and he is forever getting punctures (yes this isnt selling tubes, but the point is, a thick tyre and a tube is generally more reliable than a lightweight fast folling tyre) The only thing i worry about with tubes is thorns causing punctures, or, pinching the tube when fitting the tyre as my rim/tyre combo is a very tight fit. All in all though, i prefer the more supportive feel of tubes when you are on the side of the tyre, and find i can actually run lower pressures to get nice feel over roots etc without having a squirmy tyre.
@@ASAP2525 You're solving the wrong problem by adding inserts when using a tube gives the same support at a much lower weight. I also found when I ran tubeless that the sealant would dissolve while riding on really cold wet days, so any punctures that had sealed on warn dry spins were just being saved up for cold wet days rather than remaining fixed. Also with tubeless, pumping the tyres at least weekly was essential to keep the pressures right, while with tubes they get pumped every month or so, if even.
@@peglor Cush core XC weighs as much as tubes and use stans race sealant if you have any weird problems with sealing. Also yeah you have to pump up your tires up for every ride it is what A worthy sacrifice for bombproof reliability
@@ASAP2525 Depends what you consider reliability I suppose, since smashing rock gardens isn't my thing and I run enough pressure to stop the tyres folding under cornering, I don't have any of the issues tubeless is supposed to fix, but since I have several bikes, not having to deal with dried sealant in the tyres on the ones that don't get used regularly definitely means tubeless needs more labour time to maintain than tubes for about the same amount of trailside downtime.
@@peglor I go through tires every 6 months so I never have to deal with sealant drying up. So cal has lots of sharp rocks and thorns EVERYWHERE even when I did run tubes I had to run sealant in them to stop thorns and that was a messy hassle and just costed more money
I run tubeless … reluctantly. Tubeless has advantages but it still very primitive IMO. Biggest issue is seating of valve - at best it’s a hack. The wheel and valve guys need to get together and fix this. Name brand MTB sealant is ridiculously priced ( so I use automotive store Slime)..
We use old inner tubes as bungie cords to hold bikes onto a basic towbar bike rack (the 2 arm no clips style). They don't scratch, don't slip, and have a ton of force when pulled tight. They can also be used to make slingshots for the kids.
A very honest review on the use of tubes/tubelesss systems. I've been running tubeless for a few years now but recently swapped out my tires to put on some more aggressive treads for winter (Canada) riding. I decided to pop some tubes in since I'll be switching the tires back in a couple months. I have to say the simplicity of just popping in a couple tubes was really nice....and so simple. I'm a heavier rider and always run a couple extra pounds of pressure in my tires so pinch flats never were much of an issue for me anyway. I don't think I'm ready to abandon tubeless but I must say it sure was convenient and less of a mess putting tubes in.
I love riding tubeless, I preferred the weight reduction and supplenesss as well as the thorn protection. but I’ve not been able to ride my bike as much these days, I’d be changing my sealant for every 3 or 4 rides, so I’ve gone back to tubes and so far I’ve not punctured the tubes once, but I run pressures in the mid 30s so I’m less prone to pinch punctures.
Changing your sealant every 3 or 4 rides !? You are obviously doing something wrong. I've only added sealant 1 or twice in 6 months. I literally put on 2500 miles or more on Continental cross kings
Changing your sealant every 3 or 4 rides !? You are obviously doing something wrong. I've only added sealant 1 or twice in 6 months. I literally put on 2500 miles or more on Continental cross kings
I tried to reuse my old tubes as extra layer between tube and tyre for protection against glass / thorns on my commuter bike, didn't work so I shoved in old tyres (trimmed) and it's bulletproof, also heavier. Otherwise I run my MTB tubeless.
Inner tubes and inner tube sealant ✌️ costs €10 works flawlessly 27 psi on the rear 23 on the front on my hardtail never had a single problem! Instantly seals thorn punctures and obviously avoid hitting rocks head on.
@@YuhriZ Muc off has a special tyre sealant that goes inside the tubes, Doddy even mentioned it in the video. You simply remove the valve core, put sealant in, fill it up with air and you are good to go 👍
Hey Doddy. Been running tubes forever as my rims very entry level and can't set them up tubeless. I used to get punctures all the time so I changed to the specialized ground control with a trail casing and switched from a normal tube to one with sealant inside and haven't have a trailside puncture in almost 2 years, running 28 on the back and 25 in the front, - well there are not a lot of sharp rocks in the North of Portugal. Yeah torns are a pain got one the other day and had to change the tube before going on a ride. Thank you for this review and letting everyone know that tubes are not that bad. I am waiting on availability of new bikes and will definitely go tubeless.
@@peglor all I am saying is that I will be switching to running a tubeless setup when I get a new bike. for now it is working fantastic for me and won't be spending money on new wheels and sealant for now.
First thing I've done when bought my 2nd hand bike with tubeless setup, wacked tubes in. Running 18psi front, 25 rear, der Baron/Kaiser setup wery happy with it, no punctures in 3 months yet with 92kg weight. I was using specialized, schwalbe and conti tubes, first two are really crappy, had punctures often, with conti tubes all hell ended.
I really enjoyed this video. My 2 cents. I've been riding hardtail for a long time. I ride with tires up in the 30-32 psi range and love hoping everything in sight. I have not had a pinch flat/snake bite in forever. (note that I usually ride roads to get to the TH so higher pressure keeps me going). I've probably had the same tubes for 6 years or more with a couple of thorn patches on each. I'm considering a new bike and it will probably come set up tubeless. I'll see how it goes. I only rode tubeless once on a friends bike. I took it from has garage and it was flat. He filled it with goop and pumped it up. I rode and returned it and it was flat. Same thing next day. goop everywhere. Probably a bad setup but I will see what happens. I still swear by tubes. I guess I am in the 85%.
Most likely a bad setup. I am quite convinced by tubeless, judging by the people who come into our shop and ask for it: they did their research. Their bikes are banged up visually, but close to perfect when it comes to technical condition. Very well maintained. Meanwhile, as someone who just takes a little peak into mountainbiking, but someone who repairs bikes for a living: for the average Joe, tubes are where it's at. They're easy to fix and/or maintain, most entry bikes don't run folding tires, and in the worst case of an unfixable tube, that's about the easiest repair everyone can learn.
Oh, and just in case it comes down to "fixing is better than replacing" Very much so, in terms of environment, I Support that. Our customers don't. Replacing a tube is much, much cheaper than fixing a puncture, just because of the time we work on it. I'll happily fix a tube for a friend or so. But at work, I have to weigh time vs cost in order to give the customer a fair deal.
I had my girlfriend running tubes with slime tube sealant until very recently. It definitely worked. Two years ago we rode in Palm Springs with a lot of cactus on the trail. Her tubes had 2 inch long cactus thorns and about 10 small holes. Tubes never went flat. Great option for someone wanting to run tubes and having an extra piece of mind.
Damn, you don't leave your thrash inner tube(s) behind! Improper disposing of inner tubes is not a good mountainbiking etiquette. Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking
I've been tubeless for a couple of years now but I feel like trying the Tannus Armour inserts with tubes. Obviously there's a weight penalty but they seem a pretty good system.
Tubelss is overrated and messy :) If you need more grip, consider a diff tyre brand. Always found that if you half inflate the tube inside the tyre then bounce it, it helps to seat the tyre on the rim properly
It’s not about the grip it’s just about the reliability. And money running tubes is super expensive I get flats almost every ride it was just guaranteed to happen. And over the course of 6 months I would end up spending probably 80 bucks on tubes alone vs the 10 dollars of sealant
I’ve been running a smaller/lighter tube along with the Tannus insert for the past 6 months with zero punctures. I’ve been to several bike parks with this setup as well and I honestly don’t see a reason to go back to tubeless.
The tube is 140g and the Tannus insert is 300g. So the tubeless weight would depend on if you had an insert or not. The overall weight would also depend on the tire choice as well, you can get away with a lighter tire with the insert.
I like to repurpose tubes by making “dropper diapers”. I zip tie a cut tube to the seat rails (2x) and then around the seat post collar (1x). It keeps winter muck from going straight to the dropper. I also like this for manual seat posts!
I myself it just recently gotten used to the tubeless setup and it's something that I'll definitely find myself going back too far as tubes in my 29er but this video was really helpful in the sense of understanding how to really see the tube and recognizing when it isn't set correctly hence the wobble
Some of our trails (as in GMBN viewers) don't get rough enough to make tubeless almost a necessity anyway, though there are still other attractive benefits like lower tyre pressure and weight shaving
30.5 psi rear 29 psi front with tubes, no insterts, i have flats almost never does not matter if XC or trail bike, even on a bike park with the trail bike. If I do have a flat I can just swap the tube in 5 minutes, and I do not have to worry about valves, sealant, installation, losing pressure, if you damage your rim you can still use it with tubes, you can change tyres without problems not having to replace the liquid etc....you can use a tube for years even if the bike was not used...I think if you want a care free solution tubes are the way to go, if you ride your bike every day, then tubeless is probably better.
I use tubeless in the front & a really thick tube in the rear...&it works well. I only weigh 165lbs now & less in my summer riding weight so really no problems at all. Well maybe just as much if I had tubeless in the rear. I live in Central Oregon so I don't have problems with thorns in this area at all. This is a great video GMBN & awesome MTB topic 👏🏿 Oh I love going downhill really fast.
I discovered tyre slime when I ran tubes and never had any flats 20 odd years ago and used it upto when I went tubeless around 5 years ago. Funny how everyone has sealant in their tubeless nowadays!
I still run slime in tubes on my 2 boys bikes. I have Stan's in my front tyre and a tube with slime on the back. We have goats head jacks out here (New South Wales far west outback), which have 3 very hard thorns on each jack. Even road bikes need some form of sealant. I took a short cut through a dry drainage ditch last summer and had to get 35 jacks out of my rear tyre. Summer temperatures range upto 38-45 dergrees Centigrade during daytime.
Some motocross riders put silicone grease between the inner tube and the tire. Should prevent snake bites as the rubber surfaces can slide more easily. Haven't seen anyone talking or testing this in the biking side of things. I've tested it with silicone spray few times and I think it may have done something for the "plushiness" and traction, but too little experience to say much.
Love my tubes! Don't seem to have any more trouble than my tubeless riding buddies, as long as I make sure my pressures are on point. Great video with some great tips and pointers.
What pressures do you use? I'm new to mountain biking and riding (due to the time of year) in very muddy but also rocky conditions and I weigh about 14 stone
Tire tech improved so much over time it actually made using tubes more bearable. That being said, if the terrain is not aggressive enough, you won't have any kind of problems running tubes even today. I have an XC bike I ride it three times a week, and for pretty long hours (every Sunday I run 6 to 8 hours rides through natural trails) but the terrain is not aggressive enough, and even in this scenario I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of punctures I get through a whole year. I am currently saving to change my hubs and then I'll convert to tubeless just because I wanna see if rotational weight and the weight difference are noticeable for me (around 700g off the bike sound like it may be noticeable, specially where they are located) but I don't really have problems with tubes, and should the weight not be that noticeable, I'd probably run Tannus Armor + lightweight tube which solves most of the problems of running tubes: can be run with low pressure, virtually eliminates snake bites and thorn punctures, and adds support to the rim.
Not been tempted by tubeless so far and I’m fairly heavy and ride a LOT of rock garden trails when and if I blow a tyre It’s carry a tube and swop it out - same as I’d do for my road/fat/e etc. tubes are fine for me just now
I've never gone tubeless, was tempted once or twice but not now, with suspension, decent tyres and slime there ie no need for me to bother, I can run high presure and have good enough grip still and thorns arent a problem with slime in the tyre.
My experience on inner tubes. The tyre makes a difference to amount of flats. Bad rim tape causes many pinch type flats as well. Too low tyre pressure causes flats. Recently used bikes with wider rims. In fact the old days of 21mm rimes helped contribute to flats. Tried slime tubes some worked great some didn't. Ideally for my casual trail rides would prefer a good slime tube, but find them hard to cone by. Maybe have to DIY the tube plus slime
Yeah I'm a former Pro Dh Racer raced 96-2003 and from 98-03 On Maxxis Hi-Rollers and Maxxis tubes I can count on 1-hand how many Flats and I still Rip/With Tubes and yes I do have tricks up my sleeve and I also am a former Team Factory Wrench & Suspension Tech and will continue to run tubes......
When I got my levo 29 x 2.6, I was determined to run tubes. I put sealant in them as well. Was running about 35 lbs pressure, but pinched them continuously in the rocks! My friends who run tubeless were annoyed. Now on tubeless at 25 lbs, but with a tire insert on the back.
Got a bad puncture mid trail a while back, put my inner tube in and pretty much forgot about it. Literally change it out just yesterday after picking up a new tire.
I actually went tubeless on my road bike before my mountain bikes, but wouldn’t go back. I’m amazed at what they cope with. That said I remember a time riding at Whinlatter where I slashed the rear tyre in two places and the tube was bulging out of both and it still stayed up, and I only realised when I got back to the car!! On a different note Doddy, I’m a tart for my colour coordination clothing to bike, but you’ve taken it to another level here! 🤣🤣
I love my tubes since I reuse them, I use them on my chainstay and seat post so I can use them to keep my chain from ruining my paint and to keep my lock from knocking against the seat post
I use tubes with Tannus Armour inserts. So far so good and they absorb some roughness too Used tubes with slime in before. Never again. Dont seal and make a mess everywhere. Always have a couple of spare tubes just in case
I used Slime tubes on my old bike before going fully tubeless and they were terrible at sealing after even minor punctures. On my current xc hardtail, I had Hutchinson Race Lab Kraken tyres running tubeless with Cafe Latex sealant, but had a pretty bad fail on my rear tyre on my way to work (thankfully, it blew going up hill, so I was going slow). After that, I changed to running tubes again with Tannus Tyre Armour inserts and a lighter set of tyres (Continental Race King and Cross King combo) and I've had no issues with punctures since, in spite of scummy people leaving broken beer bottles laying around. Another benefit is that unless I get a puncture through the inserts or decide to change the tyres, I don't have to do anything like replacing sealant every six months or so.
I run tubes because that's what my bike came with. Forking out for new rims tyres and all the other gubbins is very expensive, probably need £500, and getting rid of the existing ones not great for the environment. I've had the same set of tubes for 5 years plus now.
Have been running Slime in all tubes on all bikes for many years, bikes, barrows, sack trucks. . Great when You pull a dozen large thorns out the tyre and its a 'a bit soft' . just slowly rotate it a few times, bang some air in. and carry on :-) yeah its a bit more weight but worth it for the reliability and near instant sealing of small punctures. Still had to patch a few snakebites over the years but have not had to patch a tube after pulling out a thorn over 15+years on various bikes. (Slime is not the only one I have used, there are others that do the same job). back in the mists of time we used to pour liquid latex inside tubes.. before Slime was around.
I think it comes down to how much you're willing to do patch work on a tube, I personally carry two spare tubes and two patch kits for my tires in my backpack. I would rather repair the puncture(s) at the end of a run, or home whenever possible. At least if something goes awry I should be able to manage in the meantime
No, inner tubes aren't that bad. We've just had the cycle Industry tell us for the last 10 years about how we 'need' to run tubeless.... Bit like 29" wheels... 🙄
ive rode inner tubes with sealant injected into the inner tube and works a treat as you puncture small torn like punchers , do the same on road bike and works even better .
Rode with tubes for a good few year , constantly mending punctures , mainly thorns . Changed to tubeless ten years ago and other than sealing them on first inflation ive not been caught on trail with a flat yet.
I would be interested to see what the weight difference is between a cored tubless set up vs tube would actually be. I can't imagine it would be much different.
Ive done the opposite and fit a 24” tubes inside 26 27.5 and 29, i just stretch them a little beforehand and they just expand well enough to get me out of sticky situations!
Try using a Tannus armour tire insert. An insert made for use with innertubes and lower pressures. Maybe with a Tubolito tube. Light and made for running lower pressures. I just moved away from tubeless. I also went from a DD Maxxis Aggressor tyre to an EXO. Same width, almost tha same weight with Tubolitos.
I never found self sealing tubes work well, always fail and no seal at some point, and then the mess… Probably depends also on your use, I generally ride natural ish trails, and on the higher side as I don’t like the tire squirm so 30psi or so it’s very rare to puncture. The big draw is the simple tech can be fixed easily be that trail or at home. I’m lucky in that thorns are a big issue generally.
I used to use kenda tubes with sealant and when i had my first flat after getting them i thought they were junk but when i pulled the tube out it had actually sealed itself a couple times before it failed i just didnt realize at the time
Went tubeless over a decade ago (UST FTW!) and the only time I've gone back is when a new bike comes with tubes in and I've been too impatient to wait until I've gooped the wheels up before the maiden ride. My favourite thing that an inner tube has ever done is provide a comedy moment at Chatel. Me and a mate had just had lunch and were on the ski lift when we heard the tell-tale PFFFFFFTttttt.... halfway up, his rear tube had decided to call it a day after being pushed into the bike holder! I've never seen someone so angry at an inanimate piece of rubber in my life 🤣
Just recently got a thorn in the front tyre of my 10 year old bike. On swapping it out I realised it was the 10 year old OEM tube. Don't think I really need to go tubeless, not for the front anyway.
I like the added puncture protection, but i also ride heavy enduro tires for puncture protection because a flat tire is the worst. Swapping a new tire is a hassle, but i rather clean up the mess in my workplace then fix a flat tire in the rain and mud on the trail.
I use tannus tube inserts. It's easier than keeping up with tubeless sealant. Use the super light tubes and never really have pinch flats even with low pressure. I would like to see you review products like tannus armor
My dad has Schwalbe Aerothan tubes and Tubolito's on his bikes. He's out everyday riding and never punctured once, when normally his tubeless set up needs plugging 2-3 times a year. Modern tubes are much better than those old heavy butyl ones from the 90's, and less hassle and mess than tubeless, especially if you run muc-off tube sealant
Agreed 👍🏻 I have 2 Tubolitos as spares for my tubeless setup, and when the current tyres will wear out, I'ma put them Tubolitos in. No more messin' about.
You convinced me a year ago to go tubeless, so when I got my new wheels from Hope I bit the bullet and tried tubeless and never looked back, it feels different, cant put my finger on it. Been tubeless for 6 months and no puncher as of yet even at low pressures .
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
As a newbie in biking, this is a pretty good explanation of the drawbacks tubes have against tubeless. Sadly, I'm one of those people who value cheapness and readyness over quality, tubeless-ready rims and sealant can get very expensive in my country, I'd rather patch up a tube a million times over having to buy sealant.
Also, life hack: you can use old tubes as snake bite patches. Just cut wide hoops, clean the insides, and cut them open when necessary. A quarter of a tube can be cut into 10 to 15 hoops, and you can use one of those as a rubber band to tie them together.
Got my first MTB in 1987, never been tempted by tubeless, never been plagued by punctures. There’s no mess when I do have to change them and it’s a two minute job - with the right tyre. And on the subject of right tyres, a few of your anti- tube comments are, in fact, tyre problems, not tube problems.
Most of the tyre problems are actually tubeless rim problems. Non tubeless tyres on non-tubeless rims were a complete pleasure to fit compared to anything where the bead has to pop into place. Just put 15 ish psi in, manually adjust the tyre so it runs straight and pump to the pressure you need. Tubeless has forced people to pump to a much higher pressure than they need to get the bead to seat and then bleed out the extra air - fine at home with a compressor, but doing it on a wide tyre with a small pump trailside is a complete nuisance. The tyre seating process can be sped up by standing on the sidewall of the tyre and leaning the wheel away to pull the bead out in the spots where it hasn't seated, but being able to adjust it manually at very low pressure is so much quicker and easier.
Totally agree. Mountain bikes have got better but not by getting bigger and heavier and definitely not by putting foam into tyres 😂
I personally never had any issues with tubes, I run tubeless now, but to be honest I’ve never noticed any difference. Never had a pinch puncture when I used tubes.
Me 2. Mostly just because i ride expensive and strong tyres full of technology to prevent punctures
Same here, but last summer I needed to change out the Stans so I just put tubes back in. IMO Tubes are fine if you don't ride in thorny areas or if you are not super aggressive on rocky terrain to the point you get pinch flats.
@@Rambleon444 completely agree. I ride in north louisiana south arkansas area and there’s not enough sharp rocks to give me pinch flats and thorns have never been a problem. Honestly I’ve had more flats riding around my campus than riding on the trail lol
At many trails, there are tons of thrones that will cause puncture. At other places, there are sharp rocks that will destroy tires and tubes.
Do you run lower pressure tubeless?
Tubes are no hassle at all if you know what you're doing with them; use slime filled tubes and keep the pressures comfortably top side of 30psi. (Running them in the mid-20s is asking for snake-bites - as Doddy demonstrated.) Bit of background: I've been MTBing for over 30 years, lead rides for a living (sometimes) and I'm a trained bike mechanic. I tried tubeless for a few years, but for me... ...meh... ...it was OK... ...until you get a hole that won't seal itself, and ruins your jersey/baggies/sack by spraying latex all over it. OK, when we start talking marginal gains, maybe there's a benefit to going tubeless, and there's a definite advantage if you NEED to run low tyre pressures. But for me and the other 98% of the mere mortals who MTB, it's not really necessary. Not that that will stop people wanting to run tubeless because [insert name of favourite pro] does on their bike. But like most of the 'developments' in cycling, it's as often as not about convincing punters to part with their cash for things they don't really need.
I use inner tubes with the muc off tube sealant in Minion DHRs on my hardtail. Run 28psi on rear and have not had a puncture in about 18 months. Probably cursed my next ride now 😁
Update us when you get your next flat!
still okay until now?
Quite possibly the most objective, open & impartial comparison I’ve seen ref: tubes vs tubeless. Thorns are an issue for me in the Wye Valley & FoD & going tubeless for me was a game changer… 2nd only to the dropper post. I carry a Tubolitos as a “get out of jail free card” because it fits beautifully in my Camelback hip bag, weighing nothing and taking up very little space…. that said, I’ve yet to use it. Last summer I pulled 15 thorns out of my front & rear on a single ride, I didn’t notice until I got home and they all sealed when I removed them. I’ll never go back to tubes, but I’m not against them either… they have their place
Same here in southern California. I went from constant slow leaks and swapping tubes about once a months after patching a half dozen holes until you eventually can't find all the leaks. I went tubeless a few years ago and have not had one leak since. Game changer and never going back
He's completely biased against his what are you kidding me?
If thorns are a problem, you can always put sealant in inner tubes. It is the sealant that does the job anyway.
@@sepg5084 what's the benefit of adding back the tubes if the wheels work without them? I guess setup would be easier, anything else?
I too live and ride in the FOD & Wye valley been using Slime inner tubes for around a year with no problems what so ever. Covered over 1400 miles won’t go back to regular tubes now.
I tried tubeless on my new bike last season. They felt squirmy, and went flat slowly during rides because of all the little thorns. Tubeless doesnt seal instantly all the time. I switched to downhill tubes. I got a more supportive feel from the added material on the sidewall, and no leakage at all. Basically bomb proof. Now i can run my too light weight casing tires until they wear out. I don't mind the weight, as i am 110+kg myself, and got the legs to go with that. I can't tell if I lost traction at all. And most important, i can switch my tires back and forth without the mess. No need to stockpile sealant. No need to top up sealant. No need to worry about the sealant drying in the hot shed in the summer. And also no slushing of sealant when going super slow uphill. I swear this causes friction. Just spin your tire slowly und see how fast it stops. It spins forever with tubes.
100% agreed
I don't top up the sealant. But take a 50ml dose with me all the time + one lightweight spare tube 😁
I switched to tubeless a couple of years ago and have never found the same feeling as when using tubes, to the point that i think im going to swap back to tubes. Agree about the added support with a tube. Obviously the pressures run with tubes wont be the same as tubeless but even when playing around with the pressures i have never been able to get the same feel. Been contemplating something like a cushcore but in all honesty i cant be bothered with the faffing about when fitting them. Touch wood i have very rarely had punctures with a tube and im similarly 115kg in riding gear running 25 and 28psi front and rear. I always run downhill casing tyres anyway, partly due to my weight, and partly to avoid punctures. The only thing i worry about with tubes is thorns causing punctures, or, pinching the tube when fitting the tyre as my rim/tyre combo is a very tight fit.
All in all though, i prefer the stiffer feel of tubes when you are on the side of the tyre, and find i can actually run lower pressures to get nice feel over roots etc without having a squirmy tyre.
I call bs on that. Either your sealant was really not good, your tubeless tape job was really bad or your tires were not tubeless compatible.
Most of the times, you wont even notice that you had a puncture with the tubeless. If your tape and tire are fine, sometimes you can get away to run it without any sealant (For about a day, untill you puncture)
@@RealMTBAddict hardly a gimmick if almost every professional racer is riding tubeless.
Only Doddy can make 18 minutes of old-technology fun to learn about.
only someone who got a pinch flat and didn't pump his tyres up to a higher pressure to avoid another pinch flat, is a total dick!
I don't know how he struggles so much fitting tubes!
Obviously struggles getting his (flawed) point across too.
@@thebrowns5337 Damn! This a more divisive issue than 29 vs. 27.5!
😃 👍 😂
A tip when fitting an innertube is to slightly inflate it so when you use the tyre levers the chance of it being caught and pinched is highly reduced. The slime tubes are actually great, I have just replaced the tyres on my sons bike due to wear and as I was pulling the tubes out of the old tyres they seemed stuck and only then I realised the tyres were full of thorns and they were literally "nailed" down. I patched about 10 holes just to be on safe side and reused the innertubes still. Been going strong since 2016.
I have had both tubes and tubeless wheel bikes and I prefer the stiffness/extra support of innertubes.
Yeah it really irritates me when I see litter on the trails I'm a keen believer in leaving everything better than you find it n quite often end up picking up other peoples litter
I use little cut sections of inner tubes as a parking brake for my bike, it's nice when your bike is on a frame mount on your car to keep the wheels from spinning while you're driving
Honestly, I've always felt the real difference is the specific tread you go for. Personally, I run tubes as im a little accident prone and I find it much easier to fix on the go (maybe I'm just a bit of a dummy).
The real piece of golden advice I can give is that slime inner tubes exist. They're an inner tube with slime sealant in. Basically, I run these as they are a life saver in terms of thorns, I always get home and then normally realise the next day.
@Flippy Dip True in most cases. XC tyres are an exception though as they're designed to be as light and thin as possible so even with the best team issue and high tpi tyres you still get thorns. A slime inner tube is considerably less than the £50/$75 per tyre.
Sealant for innertubes also exist if you want those.
Not a tube comment, but your color coordination was absolutely on point this video Doddy!
Been running tubes since I started riding and don’t plan on switching. Has worked fine for me for 20 years.
bcoz American roads are butter
Use your old inertubs as a liner in your tire between tube and tire to help prevent more punctures.
Good vid keepemcoming
Yep, used to run that set-up too. Great trick!
@@RealMTBAddict yeah i use them (cevlar).
But bugget wise tubes will work in a pinch
Love the message of this video! Though the dev of innertubes also goes on, the advantages of tubeless setups are hard to beat - I chose one of the lightest 2.4dissector/2.6dhf and threw cushcores in to stiffen the carcass for better cornering performance and overall controllability. Side effect is, that my tires seem to be bullet proof against snake bites now.
People can just put sealant on their inner tubes and not spend the money on converting their rims and tires to tubeless.
@@sepg5084 setting up tubeless realy isnt expensive and if you dont flat tubes often you can probably get away with running verry little sealant.
I'm using them for convenience. Here in Italy where i live we basically destroy rims without something like a cushcore, tannus armor or something like that. But those cost quite a bit of money. So innertube and 28 psi in the rear while 24 psi in the front. Only down side other than reduced grips it's the pinchflats you get sometimes
I went to tubeless because it was "all the rage". Honestly, don't like it. I used Stan's and what I found is when it's time to redo it is an absolute mess. I spent hours cleaning the rim getting the old dried up sealant off. My guess is I probably waited too long between applications. I'm going to try the lightweight tubes and see how that goes. Never had a pinch flat but then again I'm not an aggressive rider like Doddy.
@@explorenaked For me tubeless is great, I just didn't have much money to keep buying tubeless tires (for 26' wheels they cost like gold) and sealant, plus I didn't see any radical advantages in running tubeless here... It's just rocks...
But now that I bought a DH for racing I guess I need to try it again and see how it goes
surprised you run only 28 psi with tubes, especially if you live in a rocky area, id be hitting my rim often with tubeless at 28 psi so can imagine a lot of pinch flats, do you run heavier casing tyres?
@@Ben-tg1sn yes i run heavy tires on all my bikes. DH minis on my commencal Frs and on my enduro (canyon strive 2014) I run magic mary front and back, I have a some videos that show the kind of terrain I ride.
I prefer heavier tires with more grip than lighter ones with a cushcore. But as I said I'm on tubeless on my DH bike right now and loving it so far, 24 back and 22 front
You can also get inserts for use with inner tubes which help with pinch punctures and thorns. I use one on my rear wheel as the extra weight doesnt bother me. Tyre tech has come on so much too over the years.
Most modern tyres are actually quite hard to puncture with thorns as a result of better build quality, so thorns are nothing like the problem they once were. Almost every puncture I've had in the past 5 years was due to the tyre being sliced by glass or a sharp rock, and most of those were too big for tubeless sealant to have sealed them, or in the sidewall, where selaant is basically useless. Most tyre issues I have are due to sidewall failures rather than thorn/snakebite related issues, and I run nothing but tubes in my bikes. I went tubeless when the UST system first came out in the early 2000's and again a few years ago and found them to be a downgrade in terms of maintenance hours and time spent repairing punctures trailside when compared to tubes.
Never regretted going tubeless.
Where i live i have the same problem as you Doddy THORNS , regular punctures whilst out riding even with tubes with sealant in. Grrrrrr
Went tubeless and changed my tyres to Vittoria Barzo's and what a difference!
No flats , get home notice thorns in tyres.
not had a flat tyre in about 2 years now.
Great stuff Doody and GMBNTech
snake bite= low pressure in tyre, just inflate to 2-2,5 bar and you avoid it permanently.
But how do you sell all this tubeless stuff and get commission out of it?
I always ride innertubes. 2 punctures in 2 years time. 🤙 Tubeless is overrated. I biked 6000km so far.
When i run tubes, i had a puncture each 2 rides... Now, with tubeless, i have 1 puncture each 2 years.
Great video, well done. In conditions I ride in here in Utah I find tubeless is better because I can run lower psi and get more grip compared to tubes. Surprised you didn't do some quick comparisons on weight on the same tire with and without tubeless rating.
I have used inner tubes for years and will continue to do so the pros outweigh the cons i manly ride park on my dh and run thick maxxis tubes and haven’t lost any pressure or had any reason to change to tubeless
But it was a interesting video it was awesome to hear the pros and cons on the subject
What pressures do you run?
I run 22.5 psi rear and 19.5 front and when I run anywhere near this with tubes I'd just get flats.
@@nebnollock5198
I run about 25 sometimes 30 in the front and rear
And on my dj I run 80
@@ideapap1 in fairness you can get away with higher pressures on dh bikes because of the extra travel giving you more grip which probably helps you with not getting flats.
My bike is 140mm front and rear so tyre pressures have a bigger impact.
@@nebnollock5198
I guess it would also do with riding style to
How do you ride
@@ideapap1 tbf I ride my trail bike down rough and rocky enduro trails and uplift bike parks so it takes quite a beating
Absolutely loved this. So helpful, plus a cheeky vid showing how to change one. As a person fairly new to MTB and had 2 on my last 2 rides, I found this invaluable
quick tip when using inner tubes: use one that's 25% bigger than your tire width. It results in the tube being initially the same width, so it doesn't stretch thin as you fill it up.
I like that you talk about conservation of resources and sustainability. Thank you.
I got a Muc Off tubless kit for Christmas, I would’ve already had 3 flat tires by now, sealant is so great
That's great that you've gone tubeless, Jonah! The Muc-Off tubeless range is super reliable. 👍
I run with a tire and tube on the inside of my tubeless tire. I do this for two reasons. The first is it is much cheaper than running certain inserts. the inner tires are old and bald 700c so they didn't cost anything. The other reason for my setup is it makes it so much easier to get the tubeless tire to seat.
The down side is I had to drill a new hole in my rim to take a tube valve as well as the tubeless one (It isn't difficult to set up a tubed valve as tubeless). I run the inner tire between 20-30 psi and I run the outer tire as low as 10 psi to give me a large footprint but still maintain the support given by the inner tire.
I don`t have any worries with the weight as it is a ebike I use, the extra grip and comfort more than makes up for it.
You can cut an old tube into elastic strips.
Also, you can add sealant to tubes with non-replacable valves with a syringe and a hose.
Also (again) some manufactors of sealant says its just fine for tubes, so you dont always need special stuff.
Great vid again Doddy! The key takeaway here is you need to run tubeless if you need to run tubeless ;). Where I am it’s not thorns its cactus. I also run Nukeproof tire inserts. Zero flats (and rim dings) since switching over (3 years running) and I can run any pressure I want for better grip. Tire inserts and tubeless sealant are the single best low cost improvements you can make to your bike. Forget all the endless expensive upgrades that make virtually no difference. If you ride sharp rocky terrain with cactus or thorns you should make the switch. But you don't need it if you don’t need it ;).
Same here in Arizona desert
Pro tip for repairing tubes, and tyres even. You can use an old tube as the patch and the vulcanising cement. That way you can fix a hole of any size, even in a tyre.
This is an interesting tip, thanks
I've never used tubeless, but looking at the amount of tyre sealant required for each tyre, seems to me that it would weigh nearly as much as an inner tube?
You’re right, those who say tubeless is lighter are missing the point. The gains are the lower pressure and self-sealing properties
Tubeless is heavier indeed
@RollinRat I think its all about the terrain where you live. Out here it isnt rocky or extremely vegetated. My previous setup was tubeless, but often suffered from burping due to the low pressure. The grip was great though. On my new bike, the setup is still stock with tubes and honestly, i dont notice anything about it.
What?
A basic 27.5 inner tube weights more than 200g, you add less than 100ml of sealant to a tubeless wheel, usually 70ml. If the sealant is twice as heavy as water (it’s not) you still at 160g max /wheel instead of 200+.
It’s marginal but it’s there.
And yeah, there are superlight tubes, which can be more expensieve than a tubeless conversion but can be overall lighter, and there are sealants for tubes which makes them extra heavy compared to tubeless.
Oh I forgott the valve for tubeless, for normal sizes it’s usually less than 10g / piece. Still less than a tube.
I would fully recommend the bike hut sealant inner tubes for anyone thinking about it. Tried going tubeless but always found there was a slow puncture. So gave up with tubeless and got the sealant inner tubes. Been riding twice weekly for a year with them now and not one puncture!
I switched to tubeless a couple of years ago and have never found the same feeling as when using tubes, to the point that i think im going to swap back to tubes.
I also feel there so so much more support in a tyre when running a tube. I hate the feeling of a tyre folding, but with tubes i dont tend to get this anywhere near as much as with tubeless.
In terms of tyre pressures, Obviously the pressures run with tubes wont be the same as tubeless but even when playing around with the pressures i have never been able to get the same feel. The whole theory of "you can run lower pressures with tubeless" for me is counterintuitive because as soon as the pressure is reduced the tyre folds and squirms more, so then you have to add more pressure to stop this which then leads to the tyre feeling to hard. I find running a tube gives more stability even when running lower pressures so you get good compliance but none of that horrible collapsing feeling from the sidewall. I have been contemplating something like a cushcore to see if this gives that added feeling of support but in all honesty i cant be bothered with the faffing about when fitting them. Plus, if im putting a cushcore in then it defeats the weight-saving element of tubeless so i may as well just run a tube.
Touch wood i have very rarely had punctures with a tube, and in the last 5 years i dont think i have had a single pinch puncture, and im a heavy guy at around 115kg in riding gear. With tubes i was running 25 and 28psi front and rear on a hard tail and had no issues. I always run downhill casing tyres anyway, partly due to my weight, and partly to avoid punctures, but as im not doing any cross country racing im not so fussed about rolling resistance. I would prefer a supportive, strong, grippy tyre for the downhills, and have to work a bit harder on the climbs rather than the reverse. I often ride with a friend who is 66kg, also rides a hardtail but runs either cross country or trail casing tyres and he is forever getting punctures (yes this isnt selling tubes, but the point is, a thick tyre and a tube is generally more reliable than a lightweight fast folling tyre)
The only thing i worry about with tubes is thorns causing punctures, or, pinching the tube when fitting the tyre as my rim/tyre combo is a very tight fit.
All in all though, i prefer the more supportive feel of tubes when you are on the side of the tyre, and find i can actually run lower pressures to get nice feel over roots etc without having a squirmy tyre.
Just get a insert like cushcore it gives you insane amounts of sidewall support
@@ASAP2525 You're solving the wrong problem by adding inserts when using a tube gives the same support at a much lower weight. I also found when I ran tubeless that the sealant would dissolve while riding on really cold wet days, so any punctures that had sealed on warn dry spins were just being saved up for cold wet days rather than remaining fixed. Also with tubeless, pumping the tyres at least weekly was essential to keep the pressures right, while with tubes they get pumped every month or so, if even.
@@peglor Cush core XC weighs as much as tubes and use stans race sealant if you have any weird problems with sealing. Also yeah you have to pump up your tires up for every ride it is what A worthy sacrifice for bombproof reliability
@@ASAP2525 Depends what you consider reliability I suppose, since smashing rock gardens isn't my thing and I run enough pressure to stop the tyres folding under cornering, I don't have any of the issues tubeless is supposed to fix, but since I have several bikes, not having to deal with dried sealant in the tyres on the ones that don't get used regularly definitely means tubeless needs more labour time to maintain than tubes for about the same amount of trailside downtime.
@@peglor I go through tires every 6 months so I never have to deal with sealant drying up. So cal has lots of sharp rocks and thorns EVERYWHERE even when I did run tubes I had to run sealant in them to stop thorns and that was a messy hassle and just costed more money
I run tubeless … reluctantly. Tubeless has advantages but it still very primitive IMO. Biggest issue is seating of valve - at best it’s a hack. The wheel and valve guys need to get together and fix this. Name brand MTB sealant is ridiculously priced ( so I use automotive store Slime)..
We use old inner tubes as bungie cords to hold bikes onto a basic towbar bike rack (the 2 arm no clips style). They don't scratch, don't slip, and have a ton of force when pulled tight. They can also be used to make slingshots for the kids.
A very honest review on the use of tubes/tubelesss systems. I've been running tubeless for a few years now but recently swapped out my tires to put on some more aggressive treads for winter (Canada) riding. I decided to pop some tubes in since I'll be switching the tires back in a couple months. I have to say the simplicity of just popping in a couple tubes was really nice....and so simple. I'm a heavier rider and always run a couple extra pounds of pressure in my tires so pinch flats never were much of an issue for me anyway. I don't think I'm ready to abandon tubeless but I must say it sure was convenient and less of a mess putting tubes in.
I am also in canada and running tubes in the winter is a must. The only problems i have ever had with tubeless was in the winter colder than -20
I love riding tubeless, I preferred the weight reduction and supplenesss as well as the thorn protection.
but I’ve not been able to ride my bike as much these days, I’d be changing my sealant for every 3 or 4 rides, so I’ve gone back to tubes and so far I’ve not punctured the tubes once, but I run pressures in the mid 30s so I’m less prone to pinch punctures.
Changing your sealant every 3 or 4 rides !? You are obviously doing something wrong. I've only added sealant 1 or twice in 6 months. I literally put on 2500 miles or more on Continental cross kings
Changing your sealant every 3 or 4 rides !? You are obviously doing something wrong. I've only added sealant 1 or twice in 6 months. I literally put on 2500 miles or more on Continental cross kings
I tried to reuse my old tubes as extra layer between tube and tyre for protection against glass / thorns on my commuter bike, didn't work so I shoved in old tyres (trimmed) and it's bulletproof, also heavier. Otherwise I run my MTB tubeless.
@@RealMTBAddict I know, it's DIY butchery satisfaction 😅
Inner tubes and inner tube sealant ✌️ costs €10 works flawlessly 27 psi on the rear 23 on the front on my hardtail never had a single problem! Instantly seals thorn punctures and obviously avoid hitting rocks head on.
could you give example of taht ? i think about trezado/stans to inner tube, like african bike travelers
@@YuhriZ Muc off has a special tyre sealant that goes inside the tubes, Doddy even mentioned it in the video. You simply remove the valve core, put sealant in, fill it up with air and you are good to go 👍
Hey Doddy. Been running tubes forever as my rims very entry level and can't set them up tubeless. I used to get punctures all the time so I changed to the specialized ground control with a trail casing and switched from a normal tube to one with sealant inside and haven't have a trailside puncture in almost 2 years, running 28 on the back and 25 in the front, - well there are not a lot of sharp rocks in the North of Portugal. Yeah torns are a pain got one the other day and had to change the tube before going on a ride. Thank you for this review and letting everyone know that tubes are not that bad. I am waiting on availability of new bikes and will definitely go tubeless.
When tubes are working perfectly well for you by your own admission, why on earth are you so anxious to go tubeless?
@@peglor all I am saying is that I will be switching to running a tubeless setup when I get a new bike. for now it is working fantastic for me and won't be spending money on new wheels and sealant for now.
Something I found that you can use for thorns is a Kevlar tire liner that fits between the tire the tube, it adds weight but adds some peace of mind.
First thing I've done when bought my 2nd hand bike with tubeless setup, wacked tubes in. Running 18psi front, 25 rear, der Baron/Kaiser setup wery happy with it, no punctures in 3 months yet with 92kg weight. I was using specialized, schwalbe and conti tubes, first two are really crappy, had punctures often, with conti tubes all hell ended.
I really enjoyed this video. My 2 cents. I've been riding hardtail for a long time. I ride with tires up in the 30-32 psi range and love hoping everything in sight. I have not had a pinch flat/snake bite in forever. (note that I usually ride roads to get to the TH so higher pressure keeps me going). I've probably had the same tubes for 6 years or more with a couple of thorn patches on each. I'm considering a new bike and it will probably come set up tubeless. I'll see how it goes. I only rode tubeless once on a friends bike. I took it from has garage and it was flat. He filled it with goop and pumped it up. I rode and returned it and it was flat. Same thing next day. goop everywhere. Probably a bad setup but I will see what happens. I still swear by tubes. I guess I am in the 85%.
Most likely a bad setup. I am quite convinced by tubeless, judging by the people who come into our shop and ask for it: they did their research. Their bikes are banged up visually, but close to perfect when it comes to technical condition. Very well maintained.
Meanwhile, as someone who just takes a little peak into mountainbiking, but someone who repairs bikes for a living: for the average Joe, tubes are where it's at. They're easy to fix and/or maintain, most entry bikes don't run folding tires, and in the worst case of an unfixable tube, that's about the easiest repair everyone can learn.
Oh, and just in case it comes down to "fixing is better than replacing"
Very much so, in terms of environment, I Support that. Our customers don't. Replacing a tube is much, much cheaper than fixing a puncture, just because of the time we work on it. I'll happily fix a tube for a friend or so. But at work, I have to weigh time vs cost in order to give the customer a fair deal.
I had my girlfriend running tubes with slime tube sealant until very recently. It definitely worked. Two years ago we rode in Palm Springs with a lot of cactus on the trail. Her tubes had 2 inch long cactus thorns and about 10 small holes. Tubes never went flat. Great option for someone wanting to run tubes and having an extra piece of mind.
I do this on my roadie commuter. Works a treat!
@@mattdowney6540Awesome! Tubeless is great, but the mess and when you do get a puncture it's all over the bike.
Damn, you don't leave your thrash inner tube(s) behind! Improper disposing of inner tubes is not a good mountainbiking etiquette.
Lots'a love, cheers, & Mabuhay, from tropical Philippines! #KeepBiking
I've been tubeless for a couple of years now but I feel like trying the Tannus Armour inserts with tubes. Obviously there's a weight penalty but they seem a pretty good system.
I went from tubeless back to tubes with tannus armour and its much better. You can even ride on a flat, not that I've had one yet!
@@MR....T that sounds great. Once my current batch of sealant runs out I think I'll do the same. Or at the very least run tannus on my rear tyre.
that with those super light tires that are supposedly lighter than tubeless would be fun I guess, someone should try it!
I've been on tannus with tubes for nearly 2 years after having no luck with tubeless and the tannus has worked faultlessly.
@@MR....T tannus has airless tyres have you tried them
Tubelss is overrated and messy :) If you need more grip, consider a diff tyre brand. Always found that if you half inflate the tube inside the tyre then bounce it, it helps to seat the tyre on the rim properly
tubes are for peasants
@@LCNismo If I am a peasant, you Sir are a Cox-Comb :P
I'd love to try it but ride an old 2005 Scott with rubbish 26"
It’s not about the grip it’s just about the reliability. And money running tubes is super expensive I get flats almost every ride it was just guaranteed to happen. And over the course of 6 months I would end up spending probably 80 bucks on tubes alone vs the 10 dollars of sealant
My no1 reason for using tubes (which I don't anymore) would be that it's so easy, quick and not messy to change between different tires back and forth
I’ve been running a smaller/lighter tube along with the Tannus insert for the past 6 months with zero punctures. I’ve been to several bike parks with this setup as well and I honestly don’t see a reason to go back to tubeless.
What is the weight like compared to tubeless?
@@JonnyNorthmore Should be no weight difference at all. There was a video on this, search Tannas vs tubeless.
The tube is 140g and the Tannus insert is 300g. So the tubeless weight would depend on if you had an insert or not. The overall weight would also depend on the tire choice as well, you can get away with a lighter tire with the insert.
Sounds like you live in a thornless heaven
Used this set up too but I do sometimes still get pinch punctures.
Think I try running the pressure too low.
Love to see GMBN review the Tannus Armour Tire Inserts
I like to repurpose tubes by making “dropper diapers”. I zip tie a cut tube to the seat rails (2x) and then around the seat post collar (1x). It keeps winter muck from going straight to the dropper. I also like this for manual seat posts!
I myself it just recently gotten used to the tubeless setup and it's something that I'll definitely find myself going back too far as tubes in my 29er but this video was really helpful in the sense of understanding how to really see the tube and recognizing when it isn't set correctly hence the wobble
Some of our trails (as in GMBN viewers) don't get rough enough to make tubeless almost a necessity anyway, though there are still other attractive benefits like lower tyre pressure and weight shaving
30.5 psi rear 29 psi front with tubes, no insterts, i have flats almost never does not matter if XC or trail bike, even on a bike park with the trail bike. If I do have a flat I can just swap the tube in 5 minutes, and I do not have to worry about valves, sealant, installation, losing pressure, if you damage your rim you can still use it with tubes, you can change tyres without problems not having to replace the liquid etc....you can use a tube for years even if the bike was not used...I think if you want a care free solution tubes are the way to go, if you ride your bike every day, then tubeless is probably better.
good one. i`ve used the schwalbe tpu tubes for gravel road riding over the last few years, no problems
I use tubeless in the front & a really thick tube in the rear...&it works well. I only weigh 165lbs now & less in my summer riding weight so really no problems at all. Well maybe just as much if I had tubeless in the rear. I live in Central Oregon so I don't have problems with thorns in this area at all. This is a great video GMBN & awesome MTB topic 👏🏿
Oh I love going downhill really fast.
Still using them even after I upgraded my bike from an old beater to an entry level XC bike.
I'm a weekend trail rider so it's enough for my usage.
Are we gonna talk about the purple everything? :D
Tubeless only on my primary bike. It eliminated my frequent goat head leaks when tubed.
I discovered tyre slime when I ran tubes and never had any flats 20 odd years ago and used it upto when I went tubeless around 5 years ago. Funny how everyone has sealant in their tubeless nowadays!
I still run slime in tubes on my 2 boys bikes. I have Stan's in my front tyre and a tube with slime on the back. We have goats head jacks out here (New South Wales far west outback), which have 3 very hard thorns on each jack. Even road bikes need some form of sealant. I took a short cut through a dry drainage ditch last summer and had to get 35 jacks out of my rear tyre. Summer temperatures range upto 38-45 dergrees Centigrade during daytime.
Some motocross riders put silicone grease between the inner tube and the tire. Should prevent snake bites as the rubber surfaces can slide more easily. Haven't seen anyone talking or testing this in the biking side of things. I've tested it with silicone spray few times and I think it may have done something for the "plushiness" and traction, but too little experience to say much.
Love my tubes! Don't seem to have any more trouble than my tubeless riding buddies, as long as I make sure my pressures are on point. Great video with some great tips and pointers.
What pressures do you use? I'm new to mountain biking and riding (due to the time of year) in very muddy but also rocky conditions and I weigh about 14 stone
Tire tech improved so much over time it actually made using tubes more bearable. That being said, if the terrain is not aggressive enough, you won't have any kind of problems running tubes even today. I have an XC bike I ride it three times a week, and for pretty long hours (every Sunday I run 6 to 8 hours rides through natural trails) but the terrain is not aggressive enough, and even in this scenario I can count with the fingers of one hand the amount of punctures I get through a whole year.
I am currently saving to change my hubs and then I'll convert to tubeless just because I wanna see if rotational weight and the weight difference are noticeable for me (around 700g off the bike sound like it may be noticeable, specially where they are located) but I don't really have problems with tubes, and should the weight not be that noticeable, I'd probably run Tannus Armor + lightweight tube which solves most of the problems of running tubes: can be run with low pressure, virtually eliminates snake bites and thorn punctures, and adds support to the rim.
Not been tempted by tubeless so far and I’m fairly heavy and ride a LOT of rock garden trails when and if I blow a tyre It’s carry a tube and swop it out - same as I’d do for my road/fat/e etc. tubes are fine for me just now
I've never gone tubeless, was tempted once or twice but not now, with suspension, decent tyres and slime there ie no need for me to bother,
I can run high presure and have good enough grip still and thorns arent a problem with slime in the tyre.
My experience on inner tubes. The tyre makes a difference to amount of flats. Bad rim tape causes many pinch type flats as well. Too low tyre pressure causes flats.
Recently used bikes with wider rims. In fact the old days of 21mm rimes helped contribute to flats.
Tried slime tubes some worked great some didn't.
Ideally for my casual trail rides would prefer a good slime tube, but find them hard to cone by. Maybe have to DIY the tube plus slime
Yeah I'm a former Pro Dh Racer raced 96-2003 and from 98-03 On Maxxis Hi-Rollers and Maxxis tubes I can count on 1-hand how many Flats and I still Rip/With Tubes and yes I do have tricks up my sleeve and I also am a former Team Factory Wrench & Suspension Tech and will continue to run tubes......
When I got my levo 29 x 2.6, I was determined to run tubes. I put sealant in them as well. Was running about 35 lbs pressure, but pinched them continuously in the rocks! My friends who run tubeless were annoyed. Now on tubeless at 25 lbs, but with a tire insert on the back.
Got a bad puncture mid trail a while back, put my inner tube in and pretty much forgot about it. Literally change it out just yesterday after picking up a new tire.
Inner tube material makes great first handlebar wrap if double wrapping bars, road bike or Jones type alt bars for bikepacking.
Tannus armour on the rear with a tube. Not fatted in a couple of years now. Good ride feel, and really low pressures
Can we just have a moment of appreciation for Doddy's thumbnail efforts? 😀
It's a great pose! 😅
I actually went tubeless on my road bike before my mountain bikes, but wouldn’t go back. I’m amazed at what they cope with. That said I remember a time riding at Whinlatter where I slashed the rear tyre in two places and the tube was bulging out of both and it still stayed up, and I only realised when I got back to the car!!
On a different note Doddy, I’m a tart for my colour coordination clothing to bike, but you’ve taken it to another level here! 🤣🤣
I still run inner tubes. I’m in TN, thorn city in the summer. With a puncture guard between the tire and tube I have absolutely no issues!
Put sealant in the tubes and problems solved. I use green slime. Green slime even makes tubes with the sealant in them already.
I love my tubes since I reuse them, I use them on my chainstay and seat post so I can use them to keep my chain from ruining my paint and to keep my lock from knocking against the seat post
I use tubes with Tannus Armour inserts. So far so good and they absorb some roughness too
Used tubes with slime in before. Never again. Dont seal and make a mess everywhere. Always have a couple of spare tubes just in case
We have a ton of thorns in our area. My spare tubes come with sealant in them. It's not optional. But I do run tubeless.
I used Slime tubes on my old bike before going fully tubeless and they were terrible at sealing after even minor punctures.
On my current xc hardtail, I had Hutchinson Race Lab Kraken tyres running tubeless with Cafe Latex sealant, but had a pretty bad fail on my rear tyre on my way to work (thankfully, it blew going up hill, so I was going slow).
After that, I changed to running tubes again with Tannus Tyre Armour inserts and a lighter set of tyres (Continental Race King and Cross King combo) and I've had no issues with punctures since, in spite of scummy people leaving broken beer bottles laying around.
Another benefit is that unless I get a puncture through the inserts or decide to change the tyres, I don't have to do anything like replacing sealant every six months or so.
I run tubes because that's what my bike came with. Forking out for new rims tyres and all the other gubbins is very expensive, probably need £500, and getting rid of the existing ones not great for the environment. I've had the same set of tubes for 5 years plus now.
Get slime inner tubes, work great at lower psi, and with old tubes, cut down to cover your dropper post and stem bearings, chain stays and down tubes.
Have been running Slime in all tubes on all bikes for many years, bikes, barrows, sack trucks. . Great when You pull a dozen large thorns out the tyre and its a 'a bit soft' . just slowly rotate it a few times, bang some air in. and carry on :-) yeah its a bit more weight but worth it for the reliability and near instant sealing of small punctures. Still had to patch a few snakebites over the years but have not had to patch a tube after pulling out a thorn over 15+years on various bikes. (Slime is not the only one I have used, there are others that do the same job). back in the mists of time we used to pour liquid latex inside tubes.. before Slime was around.
I think it comes down to how much you're willing to do patch work on a tube, I personally carry two spare tubes and two patch kits for my tires in my backpack. I would rather repair the puncture(s) at the end of a run, or home whenever possible. At least if something goes awry I should be able to manage in the meantime
No, inner tubes aren't that bad. We've just had the cycle Industry tell us for the last 10 years about how we 'need' to run tubeless.... Bit like 29" wheels... 🙄
ive rode inner tubes with sealant injected into the inner tube and works a treat as you puncture small torn like punchers , do the same on road bike and works even better .
Rode with tubes for a good few year , constantly mending punctures , mainly thorns . Changed to tubeless ten years ago and other than sealing them on first inflation ive not been caught on trail with a flat yet.
You can repurpose inner tubes to fix leaks in your plumbing. They make great rubber bands also.
I would be interested to see what the weight difference is between a cored tubless set up vs tube would actually be. I can't imagine it would be much different.
yeah it really isnt much difference especially once you throw tire inserts in the mix. tires and rims are the weight that really matters
Ive done the opposite and fit a 24” tubes inside 26 27.5 and 29, i just stretch them a little beforehand and they just expand well enough to get me out of sticky situations!
Try using a Tannus armour tire insert. An insert made for use with innertubes and lower pressures. Maybe with a Tubolito tube. Light and made for running lower pressures. I just moved away from tubeless. I also went from a DD Maxxis Aggressor tyre to an EXO. Same width, almost tha same weight with Tubolitos.
I never found self sealing tubes work well, always fail and no seal at some point, and then the mess…
Probably depends also on your use, I generally ride natural ish trails, and on the higher side as I don’t like the tire squirm so 30psi or so it’s very rare to puncture. The big draw is the simple tech can be fixed easily be that trail or at home. I’m lucky in that thorns are a big issue generally.
I used to use kenda tubes with sealant and when i had my first flat after getting them i thought they were junk but when i pulled the tube out it had actually sealed itself a couple times before it failed i just didnt realize at the time
Went tubeless over a decade ago (UST FTW!) and the only time I've gone back is when a new bike comes with tubes in and I've been too impatient to wait until I've gooped the wheels up before the maiden ride.
My favourite thing that an inner tube has ever done is provide a comedy moment at Chatel. Me and a mate had just had lunch and were on the ski lift when we heard the tell-tale PFFFFFFTttttt.... halfway up, his rear tube had decided to call it a day after being pushed into the bike holder! I've never seen someone so angry at an inanimate piece of rubber in my life 🤣
Just recently got a thorn in the front tyre of my 10 year old bike. On swapping it out I realised it was the 10 year old OEM tube. Don't think I really need to go tubeless, not for the front anyway.
I like the added puncture protection, but i also ride heavy enduro tires for puncture protection because a flat tire is the worst. Swapping a new tire is a hassle, but i rather clean up the mess in my workplace then fix a flat tire in the rain and mud on the trail.
I run tubeless, I have the same problem as you Doddy, Thorns! Mine are from blackberry bushes. I do keep a tube on my bike for bad splits and holes.
A small bit of sealant in tubes are the way to go. Best of both worlds!
I use tannus tube inserts. It's easier than keeping up with tubeless sealant. Use the super light tubes and never really have pinch flats even with low pressure. I would like to see you review products like tannus armor
A segment of inner tube is a good replacement for rubber shims in QR seat clamps.
My dad has Schwalbe Aerothan tubes and Tubolito's on his bikes. He's out everyday riding and never punctured once, when normally his tubeless set up needs plugging 2-3 times a year. Modern tubes are much better than those old heavy butyl ones from the 90's, and less hassle and mess than tubeless, especially if you run muc-off tube sealant
Agreed 👍🏻 I have 2 Tubolitos as spares for my tubeless setup, and when the current tyres will wear out, I'ma put them Tubolitos in. No more messin' about.
Tubeless and a cushcore is my favorite set up.☺️
You convinced me a year ago to go tubeless, so when I got my new wheels from Hope I bit the bullet and tried tubeless and never looked back, it feels different, cant put my finger on it. Been tubeless for 6 months and no puncher as of yet even at low pressures .