Great video Finn. Let me just say this - and we’re all older here and for the most part a mature music audience who follows Finn - so I know I can say this to the community here with confidence…. Only normal people - like regular fans or just listeners - are the ones who see all these categories and genres as separate or enemies. I happen to be very good friends with a member of one of the biggest boy bands in the world. He and my brother grew up in the same class as kids, and then they hooked up with Lou Pearlman, and the rest become blockbuster success and global fame history. That said - I can tell you first hand - this BoyBand hangs out with everyone! There is no “genre boundary” when you reach the pinnacle and you’re a super music star. This BoyBand is friends with literally Slipknot, matchbox 20, kid rock, Britney Spears, busta rhymes, Beyoncé etc. so again …it’s really just us “small people” for a lack of better word - that buckets the genres and almost pits them against each other. As a first hand witness, I can say that top notch elite level musicians all respect each other’s genre and hustle. For the most part - there is a shared admiration among them because so few people on this earth can ever relate to the lifestyle they live. Touring all over the world, hiding away in hotel rooms, surrounded by millions of fans, making millions of dollars…etc. When you get to the top - it’s just a common ground shared among these musicians and it’s not crazy for Luke Bryant to hang with Harry Styles and Lizzo and Usher and Wu Tang Clan…etc. you’d be very surprised who you’d see sitting together at dinner once that Hollywood curtain is actually peeled back…
So PUNK/Indie/alt/underground ARE the cool kids now!! LOL People of Pop music ALWAYS thought our music was TOO weird for them, but now.........................................
Great video man. It's good to see some more level headed people. I don't listen to pop music, not because of anything specific, it's just not my taste. But man do I have respect for the artists who sing it/make it. No need to hate it or trash on it, just move along.
Honestly for me Lyricism, sound & beat are different In my opinion Love Rock think they can sound the same Rap as well but Rap Is more diverse now than other generes In my Opinion now I'm okay with women just hate how they sound I like things Instrumental Classical & something Catchy without being Over Repetitive Evanscence, Flyleaf, Avril Lavigne, I think you can consider pop to a degree I love there music Ke$ha, Lady Gaga & Katy Perry I love as well but It's certain song's Vocals/Vocalist matter a lot to me
Britney’s music career was heading toward the dumps due to issues in her personal life & with her music basically becoming a meme. She had to do something ambitious to save her career and she absolutely nailed it with that record. I don’t have much nice to say about the rest of her catalogue but gotta give her props for that.
one point I disagree on your views displayed in this video is the notion that pop had dumb lyrics before but "this is not true anymore in the post-Lady Gaga scene", that Gaga "turned pop into art". pop ALWAYS had awesome lyrics about the most different topics, its just a matter of finding and listening to it. Ill even list here some examples of actually pretty famous pop songs that are quite old and had beautiful lyrics: Vanessa Carlton "A thousand miles", Natalie Imbruglia "torn", Sixpence None the Richer "kiss me", Lauryn Hill "Doo wop", Christina Aguilera "Beautiful", 10000 Maniacs "More than this" and the list can go on and on... so no, Lady Gaga didnt invent anything. Gaga is responsible for other things, but THIS credit given to her is an exaggeration imo.
That’s what I was thinking lol … there’s a multitude of pop songs that can be pulled from every year pre-Gaga that has just as much meaning conveyed behind the lyrics. Gaga gets the recognition for mixing art in with her imagery and being different, yes … but that’s not new. Madonna, anyone? “Like A Prayer” was controversial for a reason, and it had a bit of a more personal meaning behind it other than what the wild religious folks claimed it was about lol.
100% agreed. damn, just think of a small portion of MJJ lyrics (btw as well as the musical content itself - fair point to add for this example in particular), there isn’t much superficial artificial stuff throughout his whole discography. “who is it?”, “whatever happens”, “leave me alone”, “beat it”, etc, etc, etc. and all of the above are from the “pop charts” part of his output, i’m not even talking about what’s outside of this category. btw - Imbruglia’s “Torn” is fire 🔥 loool, was glad to see it among the others you’ve listed.
Savage Garden was the first thing to pop into my mind when he said that, specifically Crash and Burn & To the Moon and Back, and then Natalie Imbruglia, Meredith Brooks, and more. There was plenty of pop music with deeper lyrics before Gaga, and while I adore her, his statement just isn't accurate.
80-92 pop was multiple levels better then todays pop "music" hell even 60-70's. the fact videos have to be made to tell ppl to give modern pop a chance should tell you all you need to know about modern pop music.
I also used to be on the pop hate train throughout high school, it was very elitist and kind of dumb. Then I took the stick outta my ass and just found all kinds of songs I enjoy. Having a varied music playlist is so fun!
Say what you will, but videos like this are hard evidence that American society is in a much better place now than it was a few decades ago. Much respect to you for taking the time and care to make this.
@@untze0 Unemployment (in the U.S.) is relatively low, and we've had far worse inflation in the past. Our population has been divided by politics for a couple centuries now, so that's nothing new. On the plus side, child poverty is way down (again, talking U.S. here), violent crime is way down compared with past decades. A few marginalized groups actually have some basic rights now in many states, although there's a lot more work to be done in that area. Not perfect by any means, but we've made some amount of progress.
Fun fact: Before she rose to fame herself, Lady Gaga wrote some hit songs for Britney and Katy Perry, but wasn't seen as good enough of a performer herself because of her "looks". We gotta admit that by most people, great looks are seen as a necessity for being a great performer, especially in the pop industry... Great video, I feel almost sad for people missing out on so much great music just cause it's listed as pop. Think for yourself 💜
she's another clout chaser but more introverted and flashy; the madonna of the late 2000s (she's even italian-american too)... leagues hotter than those two cows though which is why she's also an actress and a model
I respect how Gaga can actually play an instrument and write music. She’s a real musician, but her music stil just sounds like…. Fast food basically. Like most pop music. Just overly processed without enough actual substance because it is created for the masses. Not just written by the artist who like the music they’re creating. It’s made to make record label cats get off your back. “We need a hit!” if it is that rare decently written song that makes it through the pop scene machine it is absolutely ruined by the production. They dumb down the song, simplify the lyrics, repeat the hook to DEATH. And then they give it that spirit shattering robotic uhh tiss uhn tiss
I think a lot of people forget that You can like multiple Genres. I'm glad you are back to talking about Pop Also because I feel a lot of Elitist rock fans forget that a lot music no matter from what genre borrows from each other.
I try not too but I feel like if someone who listens to metal but listens to pop as well as kind of a betrayal. Because of how a lot of pop fans perceive metal. I'm trying to kinda get out of that mindset.. but I think a lot of metal elitism comes from well pop fans unfairly criticising metal..
Im personally open to any genre as long as the melody gets to me. Yeah i admit it im more of a melody and rythm kind of girl than lyrics And i do love pop and Rock/pop. Love Bon Jovi, Queen and Aerosmith but also love Madonna, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Bruno Mars, lady Gaga and Ariana Grande. Now my rock bands i like get me confused if im really into rock or not Because so many rock purists call my favorite bands( Bon Jovi Aerosmith and Queen) rock for not true rock fans . Rock for pop fans lol 😂 Im open to any song but a small anecdote when i was finally started to call myself a rock chick started to find comments that the rock i like is not true rock
Simply stated…. just because it’s popular doesn’t mean it’s bad. You see it in the Rock/Metal/Punk scene often when a band makes it huge and achieves massive success all of a sudden people hate them simply because they got big.
You are missing the point Finn like Eddie Trunk are gate keepers in telling people they have to like what is popular. As for the bands that make it huge. They due it by changing there sound to the point that they don't play the song that got them fan in the first place.
I believe this arises when people derive value from scarcity alone. Like in "I liked it before it was cool". Making liking something rare or unknown to most part of your personality _will_ hurt you personally if that thing is no longer rare.
I'm a 64 year old drum teacher. I listen to many different genres of music. For the last few years my favorite artist has been a pop singer. That is Kelly Clarkson. She has really good originals. She has done 500 covers on her talk show and she can sing absolutely anything. For me, she is the best singer there is today.
Kelly is one of my favorites too. She's very talented! If you're not familiar with them already, I'll point you to Nightwish, a symphonic metal band from Finland who have had as their lead singers some of the best female vocalists around, who are capable of killing it in the mainstream pop world if they chose to do so.
Kelly Clarkson is so underrated. I said I thought Kelly Clarkson was a better vocalist than Beyoncé and I was looked at like I was crazy. Have they not heard Kelly’s voice?!
@@nameisamine There are two aspects to any musicians ability. That is technical skills and feeling. Voice teachers on TH-cam always say Kelly has superb technique, so she has to be as good or better than Beyonce at technical skills. What you feel when someone sings is a matter of personal taste. I think feeling is more important. For me, I feel it in my soul when Kelly sings and she is the best singer on the planet. But again, it all comes down to personal opinion and I agree with yours.
@@Jonathan-qu6lx I hope that was meant to be a joke. Drummers are the backbone of the band. All of the legendary bands have great drummers. You'll never find a great band with a mediocre drummer.
Tove Lo (also a Swede, part of Max Martin's team) is both a great songwriter, and also an awesome singer, with a great stage presence. She's the whole package.
I love that you brought up movies. Hundreds of people come together to make a 2 hour piece and everyone accepts that but a song is invalid if it wasn't written in a basement by 2 bums surrounded by pizza boxes(although many of the best songs are written this way)
Great video! You hit the nail on the head about anti-pop snobbishness being a symptom of cultural sexism. Even though performers sing about the exact same topics in other genres, they're overwhelmingly male so it's considered 'art'. Pop is the only genre with a majority of female stars. Modern pop becoming more respected is possibly down to the infusion of tropical/house/EDM (early-mid 10s), trap/R&B (mid-late 10s) and the current pop-punk revival/alt pop trend.
Negative. The majority of the reason I hate pop music is the fact that it’s just a buncha midi tracks samples or electronic drums. And because it’s manufactured. It’s fast food. You can like it. Me not liking it has nothing to do with sexism. Plenty of women who play instruments and write music are my heroes. Modern music is trash. Most rock and metal too. Especially pop. It’s made by businessmen for teenagers. How can you like it
@@derekgregg9009 There are definitely songs which do fit this formula. No one is denying that. But applying this trope to a whole genre of music is narrow minded. Just like when I would say all of metal is some hairy dudes shouting patent nonsense and brutalising electric guitars, or all of hip hop is talking over a rhythm.
To me, it's much more simple: I just don't like the "sound" of most pop songs. It's literally the tones and styles that just don't hit right with me. And also why I adore punk covers of those exact same songs. I don't know how to explain it better than that.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I do like a handful of pop songs as they are, but most of the they're it's just unappealing until someone does a rock/metal cover version. I often describe my taste in music as "I like rebellious guitar music" which does sound odd but it's the best way to describe it.
and thats ok. the problem is that pop is commonly seen as "inferior music" when its just not. there is nothing such as "inferior music" because music, just like any art, is subjective
That just sounds like a generational thing. There is a huge difference tonally and aesthetically from music even in the 2000s to 2010s music abd onwards. So your used to growing up with certain sounds so anything different is gonna sound alien to you
I’m a card carrying long haired, bearded tattooed rock dude and it’s been a massive part of my life and identity for over 30 years. Anyone who thinks performing or writing pop music takes no talent is just flat out ignorant. Listen to the bass parts on Duran Duran’s Rio. It’s damn near Geddy Lee tier. Listen to Miley Cyrus’ performance of Say Hello to Heaven at Chris Cornell’s tribute show. That performance brings a fucking tear to my eye. I would pay to see her perform an entire set of Soundgarden covers.
Thank you so much for this video. Listening to music is like eating food: you gotta love what you love and not let people influence whats good or bad. Life is short and there is SO much music we will never experience.
I think a lot of this boils down to the holier than thou attitude that many people who enjoy non-mainstream music like to adopt. Once you accept that you're not cool because of what you listen to, it's a lot easier to understand the value in other and some more mainstream genres. I truly believe that my getting into country music in college has made me a better metal listener because it forced me to shed an ego. At the end of the day, nothing is cool, nothing is better, nothing is more legitimate than the next thing. Just enjoy it for what it is and life is a lot smoother.
The new outlaw country/folk that I became aware of in the last 5 years or so has changed my mind completely - Tyler Childers, Colter Wall, Sturgill Simpson are fffantastic
Great video, I can listen to some Red Velvet or TWICE and enjoy myself, and then switch on some Krallice right after. I’m just grateful to live in a time like this where there aren’t any barriers
Their's all kinds of rock songs that are Pop that have been on mainstream radio. From Metallica's Enter Sandman, Motley Crue's girls girls girls, to Nickelback's Rockstar, or everything in between. Just depends what hot at the time.
People who give the argument pop is made by all the same people forget that John Feldmann helps produce half the punk/pop-punk albums that have come out in the past 20+ years
Thank you for distinguishing between technical playing and songwriting, non-musicians have NO IDEA how much easier it is to write a complex riff for the sake of being complex than it is to write a perfectly concise and catchy tune
Definitely agree with this. Why is it though that all the time on this channel bands like Breaking Benjamin, Shinedown, and Disturbed are getting made fun of when they're doing this exact thing that he praises in pop music?
@@whowastheoneguy4719 I could be wrong but I get the impression finn respects all those kinds of bands, sure he calls them buttrock but i feel like thats almost more of a genre label than a diss at this point haha. Im kinda the same way, ive been a fan of all those bands for years but still kindve refer to them in a similar way.
This is a bit of a non point though, because good complex music is not good because of the complexity, but because of what the complexity conveys. Complex music can express things in ways that simple music can't, and vice versa. So yeah, if you write something complex just for the sake of it, it's easier, but writing something simple just for the sake of being simple is even easier. I don't really believe most musicians are out there writing complexicity or simplicity just for the sake of it, there's usually something they are trying to achieve. So comparing purposeless complexity with purposeful simplicity is a bit unfair. And the purpose of music is not always to be catchy, I don't think noise musicians, avant garde composers or ambient artists are particularly worried about any of that. And what they do isn't any less valid.
Men especially hate music that appeal to teen girls, because teen girls are the ultimate in emasculation to insecure men. They have to over-compensate by going extra hard against it. Nothing is more punk than liking Justin Bieber because you like Justin Bieber and fuck what people think. I'm 44 years old....saw Soundgarden at Lollapalooza, saw too many legendary bands to even begin to list...and one of the last shows I went to was a Backstreet Boys concert and they were great! I had a blast!
I really liked your comment about how easy it is to play Taylor Swift songs. So easy. Not so easy to write. Another example is Tom Petty. His songs are so easy to play but it’s genius how he came up with such simple melodies. Same goes with The Cars. Simple songs to play but not easy to come up with. These artists are extremely creative to come up with such simple but catchy and memorable songs.
Talk to 99% of musicians in ANY genre and they'll say that they love pop music. The weird anti-pop shit is always coming from the fanbases, not musicians themselves
This video earned a sub from me. My exact line of thinking. I grew up listening to punk exclusively and refusing to listen to other music - only after realizing it's only "punk" to not care what other people think did I start listening to tons of pop music and really enjoying it. As far as the claim that you need to write your own music to be authentic... nobody ever gives Frank Sinatra shit for not writing his own tunes - why is that? People need to adjust their mindset and just enjoy what they enjoy.
I have nothing but respect for pop. Taylor Swift, lady gaga, Arianna grande Sheeran, Britney Spears, Bruno Mars , and yes Justin Bieber (among others) are some of my favorite popular musicians of the last 10 or so years. Olivia Rodrigo, Dua Lipa, kid laroi (etc) are some of my favorite up and coming artists right now. I love heavy metal and rock but pop is equally up there.
@@jenniferbond7073 I owe my entire musical "awakening" to NIN, expanding my exposure to industrial, goth and EBM. I love them like no other. But what sets them apart is Trent is classically trained, and knows very well how to craft a pop song using an industrial base. Pretty Hate Machine, in his own words, is essentially a synth pop album. That is the genius of NIN- it takes a very special talent to bring industrial music to the malls and suburbs, and we owe his pop sensibilities a great deal for opening up that music to people like me, who would otherwise have never been exposed to it.
@@jenniferbond7073 NIN has heavy tracks, just depends on Trent's mood, that's why he wrote Hurt, perfect drug, as for closer. I keep my distance (IT'S TOO DAMN GOOD!)
You say you want people to think but a lot of your arguments is just sophism. False equivalency. Blatantly comparing a band writing a song vs a hive of producers is the same? No, when a band guitarist writes a riff or chord progression or whatever and shares it to the band the drummer and the bassist will still add their own parts since technically the guitarist didnt write bass lines it still is THEIR contribution. Weak argument. You said "writing is harder than playing a technical song" well invalid argument since they don't write songs and those written songs lack creativity so writing is only as hard as the songs' creativity.. Your analogy about actor/director with pop artist/producers is a red herring of the criticsm because its not not the actual issue. You are basically acknowledging they are doing *less* than other musicians. Yes that doesn't make a song not music but its an objective observation that they are doing LESS. Just like how your fastfood fry cook isn't the same level as your gourmet chef. Fastfood is still food but that is a red herring argument. Also didn't address copy pasted beats and chord progression. That alone invalidates it. Unique vocal melodies are the only saving grace in pop. I also think those metal elitists who think fast notes that are hard to play but are just linear patterns is good are dumb and have the "man with the hammer problem" physically hard to play stuff isn't necessarily melodically complex or complex in thought.
The irony of people from a genre that hasn't evolved or changed in 40 years that has nothing but formulaic bullshit complaining about pop being formulaic is hilarious 😆
Hating on pop is kind of immature. I used to be like that as a teenager, now I appreciete just good music from all kind of genres. And who could dislike Michale Jacksons music, or Adele?
Pop music sounds like crap to me, I get that a lot goes into writing and performance and they're talented but I just don't enjoy it and therefore I don't care how intricate or talented it is
when you said "punk is about thinking for yourself" it spurred something in my soul. so true. and as a pop musician with a strong DIY ethic and tons of punk/metal influences, this video exploring the nuances of pop music (especially compared to rock) was very important in helping me to contextualize my music within a larger framework. thank you!
I think a lot of people hate pop music because it's everywhere. You can't escape it, and it sometimes seems as though it's being forced on you. Although, I feel the exact same way about trendy or over-hyped acts in rock, too.
Yes. When i had to listen to the radio at work I hated pop and the songs from those eras still annoy me. Now that I don't have to listen to pop i like it a lot more. I also find i tend to enjoy pop that doesn't become a hit, like non singles from my fave celebs.
As an admittedly all-around music snob I can say without a doubt that Kid Laroi’s “Stay” will probably be remembered as one of the best songs of the 2020s in general. If anything I’ve noticed pop songwriting is improving while the dirth of indie and other genres are either unchanging or have lost their way. Funny enough a lot of pop songwriters of today were either directly involved with more underground music of the 2000s or inspired by it. Now that these songwriters are at an age where their age and experience is taken more seriously, their influence shows in the wide array of better arranged pop music of today. I guarantee you someone like Billie Eilish would not have made it big in the 2000s and would have been relegated to that weird indie chick.
15:22 I agree. I still dislike most pop music, especially modern/current stuff, but not because it's popular. I just don't like how a lot of it sounds, often the vocals are annoying (especially guys who sing in high-pitched voices as if that's sexy) and the songs themselves often don't do it for me even if they are skillfully written on a technical level (which they often are not.) Beyoncé has All The Single Ladies which is admittedly well written but she also has Who Run The World? Girls! which is pretty much the same primitive bar on repeat for 4 minutes. A lot of these pop artists have good songs but few have consistently good songs. There are definitely pop songs/artists I like and alternative songs/artists I don't; the popularity or obscurity of a song or artist has no bearing on how much I like them and I think people for whom it does are weird whether they're trend-chasing or being contrarian. Like what you like and give no fucks.
I agree, another example is Rihanna, though in her case I think her earlier music is much better than the later stuff. Umbrella, Only Girl and Love the Way You Lie are pretty much bangers but Work and Wild Thoughts are absolutely awful and for the longest time I didn't even recognise they were by the same artist.
@@Lilium805 Umbrella is a great song, definitely, very good example of one of those few modern pop songs I like (if it counts as modern at like 13 years old.) I remember there were a few songs that sounded suspiciously like it coming from various artists for a couple years after it came out.
Instead of 'pop' I distinguish between commercial and music made for reasons other than simply money. Much of today's music is in the commercial category. But Billie Eilish isn't, not Adele. But as far as I can tell Katy Perry's is, covered over by some concept of expressing yourself. By this definition much 80s hair metal was totally commercial. Metallica in 80s definitely not. And later??? That's where things get tricky. Bruce Springsteen had one philosophy of his music prior to Born in the USA, another afterwards. Also commercial music tends to be the emotional equivalent of McDonald's. That is, it tastes good, but a diet of it won't give you the right kind of nutrition. In commercial music the emotions are a trope rather than a display of the difficult emotions that make up reality. Singing gender correct music with anger is just a meme at this point. It is the new commercial concept. So basically I hear the money, lots of it, more than genuineness. But I do feel we are leaving the pop demimonde. Billie Eilish is a sign of something new. I have an open mind and 13,000 LPs and CDs. I find much of the popular music of the last ten years or so to be emotionally weak, sad, manipulative. Not all. There is great music that falls through the cracks. And a few acts today do have some integrity. But essentially we are in a high tech version of the late 40s early 50s, without a Jazz or Rhythm and Blues or Honky Tonk underbelly. (Unless you can convince me I'm wrong.) Essentially you have given us your version of the popist theory, which says that music for girls and gays is looked down upon. I never found it convincing. Not that Rock music or Punk is free from a lot of problems. But then enemy is not a style, but an approaching that empties music of meaning to make money from emotional manipulation, which can infect any style.
I like some pop music. But generally, I like a lot of guitar in my music and heavier riffs and the emotion that pervades from it which is why I don't prefer pop normally.
Billie Eilish and her brother Finneas wrote the songs for the fictional pop boyband 4 Town in Disney’s turning red. That is pure talent right there. Love this video so much!
Great finish. Punk is going your own way. On my shelves there's CD:s with Britney, Black Flag, Pet Shop Boys, The Stooges, Deftones, Hank Williams, Depeche, Outkast, Erasure, Seasick Steve, Grimes, Robyn and TONS of jazz. There's nothing so metal as when Nick Cave sits alone by his piano singing Into My Arms.
@Madden 07 Soundtrack Fan Account [Kendrick AOTY] can’t argue… those are also great songs! Urge you to take a look at his catalog though there’s a lot of bangers you’re probably forgetting. Also check Rick Beatos Breakdown of into you from Ariana Grande 🤟
Disagree! Everything Max Martin touches turnes into gold. When Britney Spears realesed Femme Fatale album it had hit after hit. Then she decided to switch it up on next album and use "overrated" producer Will.I.am the album wasn't good and the sales were weak.. Almost every big hit single she had was produced by Max Martin. Same goes for Backstreet Boys etc.
What an incredible video! Thank you so much for sharing this. I've always tried to get this point across to people who want to seem "edgy" because they dislike pop music. I went to college for music and was always looked down upon because pop's my favorite genre, there are so many misconceptions people have and trying to make an artist's work "less" just because it doesn't fit your standard of how a song should be is such a sad way to look at art. Art is made from the heart and from emotions, if that translates into a 4 chord song, what's the issue? Making art just for the sake of it being complex doesn't really ring as authentic to me. IF the art is complex as a result of the creative process, that's great! but if it isn't it's just as valid. Also, i think the element of misogyny (as well as homophobia) you mentioned is often ignored; these people love to hate on female artists, female audiences and anything that is seen as "gay". Straight male artists just don't get half the amount of hate and criticism as female artists do. Music is subjective and it's perfectly fine to like and dislike certain genres! But trying to boost your ego by feeding yourself the narrative that certain genres are superior is just pretentious and annoying, let people enjoy the art they connect with! Not vibing with the top 40 doesn't make you special!
Heaven forbid someone does not like pop because it does nothing for them. Heaven for bid someone likes Jazz over country. Heaven forbid people have there own personal taste. Stop being a cry baby about what someone likes or does not like and move on.
@@evacody1249 it’s so silly to say pop does nothing for you. Like this video said “what is Pop?“ it’s literally impossible that you can’t find a pop song that ‘does something for you’ because potentially anything can be pop music or have pop appeal. Pop is a chameleon genre that is constantly shapeshifting. It’s for this reason why I find blanket criticisms of Pop truly myopic.
I know this is like the argument of arguments but a lot of stuff you mention I wouldn't call pop... To pick up on your example with movies, that works really well: You don't call The Matrix a Keanu Reeves movie, it's a movie starring Keanu. I think the Pop music scene sells you multiple layers of lies and that is the real issue IMO. The amazing musicians who perform and record for pop acts are, for the most part, completely unknown to the public, so are many songwriters and producers while calling "an amazing artist" to someone who's maybe just a good singer or maybe not even that since technical ability is, many times, also part of the lie. So, to me, the problem is not really pop music but pop industry where when you listen to "a Katty Perry song" you have no ideia how much of Katty is in there, did she write it? helped write? dis she play something in the recording? Can she even sing it or is it just editing? And yet you are pushed to believe that that work of art is "by Katty Perry" Now, I know a lot of what I said could apply to rock and metal bands, the difference is that in rock and metal this fraudulent attitude is frowned upon while in pop is the industry standard.
I mean that's what album credits are for. Performers not writing songs they release is something that goes back to the earliest years of popular music. Hell tons of jazz revolves around standards that were written and are interpreted by other artists. Ultimately the people who listen to Katy Perry listen to it because she's the one singing, and often times the songwriters behind a lot of pop songs don't really want the attention from people unless they actually care on a deeper level (i.e. they read the credits). Also the performer can be involved in other ways, from choosing the songs to dictating the artistic direction of an album. I think this is kind of a non issue because ultimately the music sounds how it sounds regardless of what's in the credits. I don't really care much if I listen to Beyonce album, if she wrote the songs or not, it's not going to sound better or worse. Also this attitude is most certainly not frowned upon in rock, it was once the standard. Eventually it stopped being so but even today if you look at album credits you will see songwriters that aren't in the band here and there. There's nothing fraudulent, no one is lying.
Mind-blowing but true. You don’t have to be a great writer to be a great singer or performer. One of the other undeserved reasons why people hate pop: “people don’t WRITE their own songs so therefore they can’t be GOOD”. Look at Elvis, he is one of the most iconic and important artists of all time and loved by pretty much everyone and wrote none of his own songs.
I love what I love and I dont care what anyone thinks about it lol I can listen to Britney spears, then the sex pistols, then lynyrd skynyrd, then 2pac. I am not ashamed to like whats good.
Awesome video, definitely agree. Also kinda wanna add something regarding songwriters as I'm pretty sure there might also be some people who just hate performing but love writing songs, or who want to see their song performed a certain way or by a certain artist. And yeah actually creating a good soundtrack with a music production software is way harder than a lot of people believe. Personally I just listen to what I like and what I'm feeling like and I couldn't care less about the genre. For example I'm excited for the new Slipknot album coming out September 30th but I currently mainly listen to hyperpop, german hip hop and pop punk with the occansional rock or metal song mixed in between. One great way to tear down genre restrictions (for a lack of a better word) would be the "Flow" function of deezer in my opinion.
I'm a young girl who always wanted to be a musician, so I started learning instruments since 11 years old. However, being a fan of metal, I've met the community, and its culture really did some damage to my perception of music and my craft. I've always been a composer, not much of a performer, even though I can be considered a virtuoso guitarist. This always led me to frustration trying to record or even play all the stuff needed for the songs I was creating at the time. At some point I decided to stop listening and just do my own thing. I discovered that pop music is goated and generally better, more well suited for me. Pop as a style, not as a genre. I feel more happy with what I'm composing nowadays and I am able of performing it, but I still need to meet musicians who are better than me, I suck. Either way, fuck the gatekeepers, be happy
@@fclefjefff4041 Everything is really compressed. Even other genres besides radio pop like rock and metal have a very specific kind of heavy compression that makes a lot of bands sound similar
@@christophermoore9436 I understand what you're saying, my issue (to which you seem oblivious) is your choice of the word "everything." There are people making recordings with literally no compression at all. I'm one of them.
I really love pop, along with rock and metal and many other genres. I think when you actively engage in things outside of your comfort zone, you get to experience the joy of music with a lot of different nuances and perspectives. It makes the entire listening experience that much more impactful. Not everyone consumes music actively, which is fine. But if you call yourself an audiophile or music junkie/lover, writing off a whole genre simply because you haven’t put the effort to understand or look deeper into it is pretty hypocritical. Also there are a ton of sub genres in pop that sound very different.
what I personally love about this video is your explanation about how it is related to the channel and being “punk”. that’s the point I respect a lot and actually what can be tracked down across all of your content on this channel. prejudice just doesn’t help humans, you gotta shake it off and think for yourself
Demi Lovato's new song Substance honestly fucking SLAYS. The chorus has an honest to god ubermetal embelishment to tie into the verses and it's fucking great. Nita Strauss plays with her now too. She has writing credits on it too, which for me is a nice bonus but in the end there are artists who pick songs they should've left to someone else, and other artists that can write good songs who can also pick songs they haven't written but are self aware enough to know they can do them justice. That's Demi Lovato.
I remember getting Katy Perry's teenage dream or whatever it's called album on a road trip for work and blasting it on repeat driving my co workers crazy. I truly love that album and for me it's nice to take a break from rock and metal where as a long time drummer and guitarist I sometimes over analyze what everyone's doing and playing, where as when I listen to pop my mind doesn't focus on every little detail as much and I can sing along like an idiot and just have fun. If it's good it's good, screw what people think or what genre it is. If you play music a lot can be learned about song writing if you really pay attention, even if you dislike or hate the music. Great video Finn!!!
I appreciate that when examples of bad pop music were cited, examples were given from both recent and older music. Helps avoid the boomer-energy "all music was better in my day" takes.
I'm just tired of those repetetive copy and paste pop songs. Literally all of them have the same beat in the chorus. In the first half it's just a kick with some very generic bass in between, the second part of the chorus just adds claps and repeats the same line. That's in every pop song chorus.
There's loads of psychology studies into music genre preferences. They're quite hard to read through so not gonna fetch a quote from anywhere, but the thing that stood out to me about Pop music, is that it's a genre appreciated by Uncreative people. There's a few other genres for uncreative people but Pop was very unspecific with other personality traits if I remember right. I think it's obvious why people who do like creative genres decide to shit on the most popular genre which happens to be an uncreative one right?
“Most” pop personality I hate tattoos Tattoos become popular I love tattoos now Tattoos become hated Wow, I hate tattoos 😂 Edit: this is why I am upset with BMTH, they left rock yet come back to it because it’s popular now. It’s selling out. Idk, but yes, they are admittedly good. I am just not about the money and sell out, do whatever is popular, I like real and raw and doing something because you love it. But yes, I love music and I can appreciate a lot of things within a song from different genres. Just, yeah. You’re right though, you can check out the Rock goes Pop songs that Our Last Night do
You can't forget Kanye West changed the sound of Pop and Rap music when he dropped my Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, but ynow people can't accept that Kanye is a great artist anymore.
Despite playing folk punk, covering Lady Gaga's "Poker Face" (badly) is a personal favorite. Plus, everyone knows the lyrics and sings along. Pop music is oddly cross-cultural.
Biggest reason I don't care for most "pop" music is the predictability of much of the song. I understand that the songs are written to the masses to garner success by being easily digested, but I know that I personally like the surprise that jazz, progressive, math or avant-garde music provide. Finn, I do think it's funny that you post ATDI to talk about the peeps who have disdain for pop music because Cedric and Omar are writing a lot of music in more of a pop format since the last Mars Volta album in 2012. They just came out from hiatus as TMV and put two singles so far that are very pop in structure. Check 'em out!
My discovery and love for metal and rap never stopped me from also loving some pop also. I like what I like. I don't like Country but I even like a handful of Country songs.
There’s a thing I can’t really get my head around. It’s 2022, right? Subcultures pretty much no longer exist. You don’t really have to prove your credentials to your metal crew or your hip hop crew or your techno crew or your whatever crew. Better still, music is much more widely accessible than it used to be back in the day. You’re no longer limited to these few albums you can save up to buy or these particular radio stations and/or TV channels that only play this and that genre. On the contrary, you’re just a couple of clicks/taps away from literally a n y music you wish to listen to at the moment. So, couldn’t we just, you know, officially consign genre tribalism to the past…? As for the “pop is easy!” nonsense, if you create any sort of art, be that music, prose, sculpture, visuals, whatever, you’ll surely know that the most challenging pieces are those which in their final form look simple. You think writing massive hits is bread and butter? Do it! Release a hit single. Then another one. And yet another one. Back them with a hit LP. Go on tour. Sell out huge arenas worldwide. Rub your shoulders with all them Lovatos, Grandes, Sheerans, Marses and so on. Appear in a few commercials. Endorse a couple of brands. When you’re already a zillionaire, which should take no more than two, maybe two and a half years, grab the cash, give everybody a finger, get back to your garage and play your experimental progressive brootal melo-technical deathcore till you die. And if you don’t want to taint your good honour with such discreditable acts, tell me how and I’ll do it. We’ll split the money 50/50. Or 45/45 and give the remaining ten per cent to Finn, so that he can pay off his mortgage and feel rewarded for the inspiration, uh? BTW, Finn, I remember you expressed a very similar view in one of your videos. So maybe you deserve more than ten per cent. Now let’s just patiently wait for our creative genius to come ;p
I'm gonna need some citations on the most challenging art being simple. Pretty sure the degree of complexity is irrelevant (and complexity is a vague concept to begin with). Also this argument about writing pop music being hard/easy is pointless in a vacuum. Like sure, writing a #1 hit might be hard, but do anyone actually care when 30 years from now no one knows that it existed? Of all the music that continues to be talked about years down the line, only a portion was actually at that level of commercial success. Same can be said about the hundreds of nobody bands making sterile math rock or whatever, as opposed to the few that make generally well received music that nonetheless isn't charting. Complexity is not better nor worse than simplicity.
I don't like pop because it's just not good music to me. If you like it, that's great for you. I just personally don't like it because it's kind of generic, imo.
Pop music is catchy & serves it’s purpose. I personally dont care what music sounds like, if my ears like it? I’m cool with it! Pop gives you moments e.g - At the end of every April we say “It’s gonna be MAY” and every summer you can play LFO (RIP Rich and Devin) “Summer Girls” and rap along to the catchy lyrics! But then you had a group like East 17 who’s songwriter Tony Mortimer used to write about planet/global issues sometimes - but he wrapped it up in a palatable way for the masses to consume. Pop is definitely not one dimensional 🤙🏾
Gotta give Madonna credit where credit is due. She went from Material Girl to essentially "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want and you can go ahead and try to classify it if you feel like it."
I agree with everything you say, but I'm just not a fan of those particular artists mentioned in this video (aside from Charli xcx). There's a lot of good indie pop or art pop -- Grimes, Kerli, Charli XCX, Benee, Pictureplane, purity ring, phem, kaiyko, fka twigs, Hana, Christine and the queens, yves tumor, jean Dawson, etc..
This is why I like this channel. No lies were told here. As a Metal Fan I always took issue with people’s unwillingness to be open about music. You don’t have to like it but to not like it based on arbitrary things or someone’s opinion is just dumb. You can like a little of everything
you know why i dont like pop? because its over played. Simple as that, when you hear the same 10 songs being played everyday for months to a year, it slowly makes you hate it.
Long time fan of punk and hardcore but pop music, especially bubblegum pop or synthpop, is right there with it among some of my favourite music. Lights, Taylor Swift, Carly Rae Jepsen, and Kesha all get regular spins.
I love this video, thanks. With respect to music genres, my motto is that there's only two kinds of music: good and bad. To be sure, I have my own tastes and some genres speak more directly to me than others or move me more than others, but there's no such thing as a genre or kind of music that's just categorically bad. That said, my reaction to those three samples you played (ca. 3:35) actually do all sound the same to me. Not exactly the same, of course, but they blend together to my ear. The timbre of the voices, for example (autotune, maybe)? And the beats? The samples are short so that might not hold true on a longer listen, and the shortness also makes it hard for me to identify why/in what particulars they sound the same to my ear, but they do. It's that "radio-friendly" vibe, maybe? The (limited) dynamics? Maybe it's just the recording techniques? Anyway, I"m just curious if anyone else hears those three as kind of homogeneous for some reason. P.S. I agree with pretty much all of your points, incidentally. Especially the point about the role sexism plays or might play in informing some people's aversion to pop.
I was silly when I was younger. I got into the whole, "I hate pop because it's not punk" phase, but ironically, I was into pop punk, which is POP MUSIC. It wasn't too long before I got over that, I guess I was just looking to have some kind of credibility as a teenager, haha.
I loved pop in the 80s. I hated pop in the 90s perhaps only because it was expected of a teenage alt kid. But today, I cant understand the vocal approach to pop music songwriting. I just cant hear the melody anymore which is what I thought pop music was supposed to be about. Like compare the Human League’s “Dont you want me?” to Justin Bieber’s “ Where are you now”. You can hum, whistle or play the former song’s vocal melody on an accordion and it will be instantly recognisable, you can’t do that with the Justin Bieber song. Its all about production
Solid arguments. I for one agree. As for the last, the opposite is true (in any field) i believe: Don't put something on a pedestal simply because someone told you it's great and everybody likes it. So there's no reason for you to not like it. And if you don't you don't belong with the team. Belonging is good. Staying true to your beliefs and developing your strength, thinking and character is so much better. And it's not easy. But that's how you make progress in life. Tough it out. Develop a critical ability. Come out the other end a new person. And as that nice saying goes: 'Be yourself. Everyone else is taken'.
Terrific video. As a young adult I didn’t give pop its due because I perceived it as music that was designed to appeal to literally everyone. So if your guidance counsellor and 13 year sister liked it, that was a red flag. I always felt that the visuals took priority over the music and the focus on being a star, and selling albums came off as borderline hedonistic to me. As I’ve mellowed out I see the deep flaws in this logic and total painting in broad strokes. I’m also a firm believer in music being a great healer in life. So if you’re inspired by Ariana Grande, or Morbid Angel, more power to you either way. Plus as you pointed out, so truly great art has been made in the pop genre.
Also punk in the US was getting back to single driven pop music. Just ask the Ramones. Also ABBA songs are pretty complex. The problem I have with the whole culture of pop music is the hyper capitalist commodification of human expression.
Prior to forming Right Said Fred, the Fairbrass brothers had been playing music since the mid-1970s: as part of a band called The Actors, the brothers had toured with Suicide and supported Joy Division at the Factory club in Manchester. - Wikipedia
Making a Pop song is easy. No doubt about it! Making a Successful Pop Song that sticks and can be seen as something worth listening to. It's hard that's the real challenge.
I fucking LOVE pop music. I also FUCKING. LOVE. Metal. The fans of each genre who don't listen to the other are missing out. Great pop music can be just exhilarating as great metal. Plus, why do metalheads not like to admit they like pop melodies in their music? Slipknot? Opeth? I could go on. Also, Dua Lipa and Tomb Mold belong together in a playlist. Metal/Pop playlists are the best playlists, ever. Also love the Bonnie McKee shoutout, she's a super talented pop writer!
Join the Discord! discord.gg/9GbTq4d8Pe
Great video Finn. Let me just say this - and we’re all older here and for the most part a mature music audience who follows Finn - so I know I can say this to the community here with confidence….
Only normal people - like regular fans or just listeners - are the ones who see all these categories and genres as separate or enemies. I happen to be very good friends with a member of one of the biggest boy bands in the world. He and my brother grew up in the same class as kids, and then they hooked up with Lou Pearlman, and the rest become blockbuster success and global fame history.
That said - I can tell you first hand - this BoyBand hangs out with everyone! There is no “genre boundary” when you reach the pinnacle and you’re a super music star. This BoyBand is friends with literally Slipknot, matchbox 20, kid rock, Britney Spears, busta rhymes, Beyoncé etc. so again …it’s really just us “small people” for a lack of better word - that buckets the genres and almost pits them against each other.
As a first hand witness, I can say that top notch elite level musicians all respect each other’s genre and hustle. For the most part - there is a shared admiration among them because so few people on this earth can ever relate to the lifestyle they live. Touring all over the world, hiding away in hotel rooms, surrounded by millions of fans, making millions of dollars…etc. When you get to the top - it’s just a common ground shared among these musicians and it’s not crazy for Luke Bryant to hang with Harry Styles and Lizzo and Usher and Wu Tang Clan…etc. you’d be very surprised who you’d see sitting together at dinner once that Hollywood curtain is actually peeled back…
So PUNK/Indie/alt/underground ARE the cool kids now!! LOL People of Pop music ALWAYS thought our music was TOO weird for them, but now.........................................
Great video man. It's good to see some more level headed people. I don't listen to pop music, not because of anything specific, it's just not my taste. But man do I have respect for the artists who sing it/make it. No need to hate it or trash on it, just move along.
Honestly for me Lyricism, sound & beat are different In my opinion Love Rock think they can sound the same Rap as well but Rap Is more diverse now than other generes In my Opinion now I'm okay with women just hate how they sound I like things Instrumental Classical & something Catchy without being Over Repetitive Evanscence, Flyleaf, Avril Lavigne, I think you can consider pop to a degree I love there music Ke$ha, Lady Gaga & Katy Perry I love as well but It's certain song's
Vocals/Vocalist matter a lot to me
How can you listen to toxic by Britney and not think it’s an absolute banger
Britney’s music career was heading toward the dumps due to issues in her personal life & with her music basically becoming a meme. She had to do something ambitious to save her career and she absolutely nailed it with that record. I don’t have much nice to say about the rest of her catalogue but gotta give her props for that.
The violin annoys me.
Tuunnneee 🔥🔥
I cannot physically listen to that song without singing it. That and Baby One More Time
Metal Versions of Pop Songs are always better than the Original
one point I disagree on your views displayed in this video is the notion that pop had dumb lyrics before but "this is not true anymore in the post-Lady Gaga scene", that Gaga "turned pop into art". pop ALWAYS had awesome lyrics about the most different topics, its just a matter of finding and listening to it. Ill even list here some examples of actually pretty famous pop songs that are quite old and had beautiful lyrics: Vanessa Carlton "A thousand miles", Natalie Imbruglia "torn", Sixpence None the Richer "kiss me", Lauryn Hill "Doo wop", Christina Aguilera "Beautiful", 10000 Maniacs "More than this" and the list can go on and on... so no, Lady Gaga didnt invent anything. Gaga is responsible for other things, but THIS credit given to her is an exaggeration imo.
That’s what I was thinking lol … there’s a multitude of pop songs that can be pulled from every year pre-Gaga that has just as much meaning conveyed behind the lyrics. Gaga gets the recognition for mixing art in with her imagery and being different, yes … but that’s not new. Madonna, anyone?
“Like A Prayer” was controversial for a reason, and it had a bit of a more personal meaning behind it other than what the wild religious folks claimed it was about lol.
100% agreed.
damn, just think of a small portion of MJJ lyrics (btw as well as the musical content itself - fair point to add for this example in particular), there isn’t much superficial artificial stuff throughout his whole discography. “who is it?”, “whatever happens”, “leave me alone”, “beat it”, etc, etc, etc. and all of the above are from the “pop charts” part of his output, i’m not even talking about what’s outside of this category.
btw - Imbruglia’s “Torn” is fire 🔥 loool, was glad to see it among the others you’ve listed.
Savage Garden was the first thing to pop into my mind when he said that, specifically Crash and Burn & To the Moon and Back, and then Natalie Imbruglia, Meredith Brooks, and more. There was plenty of pop music with deeper lyrics before Gaga, and while I adore her, his statement just isn't accurate.
80-92 pop was multiple levels better then todays pop "music" hell even 60-70's.
the fact videos have to be made to tell ppl to give modern pop a chance should tell you all you need to know about modern pop music.
I cant stand Lady GAGA, Just had to say that. :P
Metal fans don't want to acknowledge that their favorite band brings a bunch of riffs to the studio and the producer turns them into songs for them
any examples?
@@SpiralDreamLike A LOT of producers was in heavy mental band before they became a producer. Like Max Martin.
I also used to be on the pop hate train throughout high school, it was very elitist and kind of dumb. Then I took the stick outta my ass and just found all kinds of songs I enjoy. Having a varied music playlist is so fun!
great you like really bad "music" congratulations
Pop isnt a genre. its literally a playlist dubbed as a genre. Pop is meant for popular...
@@dvvaughn564 Great you are now loving yourself for being edgelord, congratulations
You shouldn’t just hate pop cause your friends do. You should hate pop cause you have ears and integrity
@@derekgregg9009 I guarantee that all of your favorite bands have pop songs they enjoy. Listening to one type of music is so boring.
Say what you will, but videos like this are hard evidence that American society is in a much better place now than it was a few decades ago. Much respect to you for taking the time and care to make this.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@@untze0 Unemployment (in the U.S.) is relatively low, and we've had far worse inflation in the past. Our population has been divided by politics for a couple centuries now, so that's nothing new. On the plus side, child poverty is way down (again, talking U.S. here), violent crime is way down compared with past decades. A few marginalized groups actually have some basic rights now in many states, although there's a lot more work to be done in that area. Not perfect by any means, but we've made some amount of progress.
@@tommylakindasorta3068 you should stop it with the quaaludes
Fun fact: Before she rose to fame herself, Lady Gaga wrote some hit songs for Britney and Katy Perry, but wasn't seen as good enough of a performer herself because of her "looks". We gotta admit that by most people, great looks are seen as a necessity for being a great performer, especially in the pop industry...
Great video, I feel almost sad for people missing out on so much great music just cause it's listed as pop.
Think for yourself 💜
she's another clout chaser but more introverted and flashy; the madonna of the late 2000s (she's even italian-american too)... leagues hotter than those two cows though which is why she's also an actress and a model
I respect how Gaga can actually play an instrument and write music. She’s a real musician, but her music stil just sounds like…. Fast food basically. Like most pop music. Just overly processed without enough actual substance because it is created for the masses. Not just written by the artist who like the music they’re creating. It’s made to make record label cats get off your back. “We need a hit!”
if it is that rare decently written song that makes it through the pop scene machine it is absolutely ruined by the production. They dumb down the song, simplify the lyrics, repeat the hook to DEATH. And then they give it that spirit shattering robotic uhh tiss uhn tiss
@@derekgregg9009 Please watch the video first before making statements which this video utterly annihilates
I think a lot of people forget that You can like multiple Genres. I'm glad you are back to talking about Pop Also because I feel a lot of Elitist rock fans forget that a lot music no matter from what genre borrows from each other.
I try not too but I feel like if someone who listens to metal but listens to pop as well as kind of a betrayal. Because of how a lot of pop fans perceive metal. I'm trying to kinda get out of that mindset.. but I think a lot of metal elitism comes from well pop fans unfairly criticising metal..
Im personally open to any genre as long as the melody gets to me.
Yeah i admit it im more of a melody and rythm kind of girl than lyrics
And i do love pop and Rock/pop.
Love Bon Jovi, Queen and Aerosmith but also love Madonna, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Bruno Mars, lady Gaga and Ariana Grande.
Now my rock bands i like get me confused if im really into rock or not
Because so many rock purists call my favorite bands( Bon Jovi Aerosmith and Queen) rock for not true rock fans . Rock for pop fans lol 😂
Im open to any song but a small anecdote when i was finally started to call myself a rock chick started to find comments that the rock i like is not true rock
Simply stated…. just because it’s popular doesn’t mean it’s bad. You see it in the Rock/Metal/Punk scene often when a band makes it huge and achieves massive success all of a sudden people hate them simply because they got big.
You are missing the point Finn like Eddie Trunk are gate keepers in telling people they have to like what is popular. As for the bands that make it huge. They due it by changing there sound to the point that they don't play the song that got them fan in the first place.
I believe this arises when people derive value from scarcity alone. Like in "I liked it before it was cool". Making liking something rare or unknown to most part of your personality _will_ hurt you personally if that thing is no longer rare.
I'm a 64 year old drum teacher. I listen to many different genres of music. For the last few years my favorite artist has been a pop singer. That is Kelly Clarkson. She has really good originals. She has done 500 covers on her talk show and she can sing absolutely anything. For me, she is the best singer there is today.
Kelly is one of my favorites too. She's very talented!
If you're not familiar with them already, I'll point you to Nightwish, a symphonic metal band from Finland who have had as their lead singers some of the best female vocalists around, who are capable of killing it in the mainstream pop world if they chose to do so.
Kelly Clarkson is so underrated. I said I thought Kelly Clarkson was a better vocalist than Beyoncé and I was looked at like I was crazy. Have they not heard Kelly’s voice?!
@@nameisamine There are two aspects to any musicians ability. That is technical skills and feeling. Voice teachers on TH-cam always say Kelly has superb technique, so she has to be as good or better than Beyonce at technical skills. What you feel when someone sings is a matter of personal taste. I think feeling is more important. For me, I feel it in my soul when Kelly sings and she is the best singer on the planet. But again, it all comes down to personal opinion and I agree with yours.
Nobody cares about drums . Guitar is where it’s at .
@@Jonathan-qu6lx I hope that was meant to be a joke. Drummers are the backbone of the band. All of the legendary bands have great drummers. You'll never find a great band with a mediocre drummer.
Tove Lo (also a Swede, part of Max Martin's team) is both a great songwriter, and also an awesome singer, with a great stage presence. She's the whole package.
PREACH IT!!! Not everyone is Stevie Wonder or Prince...Think for ourselves!!!!
It's interesting how you mentioned (arguably) the two most "outside of the box" thinkers in the history of R&B.
I love that you brought up movies. Hundreds of people come together to make a 2 hour piece and everyone accepts that but a song is invalid if it wasn't written in a basement by 2 bums surrounded by pizza boxes(although many of the best songs are written this way)
Great video! You hit the nail on the head about anti-pop snobbishness being a symptom of cultural sexism. Even though performers sing about the exact same topics in other genres, they're overwhelmingly male so it's considered 'art'. Pop is the only genre with a majority of female stars. Modern pop becoming more respected is possibly down to the infusion of tropical/house/EDM (early-mid 10s), trap/R&B (mid-late 10s) and the current pop-punk revival/alt pop trend.
Negative. The majority of the reason I hate pop music is the fact that it’s just a buncha midi tracks samples or electronic drums. And because it’s manufactured. It’s fast food. You can like it. Me not liking it has nothing to do with sexism. Plenty of women who play instruments and write music are my heroes. Modern music is trash. Most rock and metal too. Especially pop. It’s made by businessmen for teenagers. How can you like it
@@derekgregg9009 There are definitely songs which do fit this formula. No one is denying that. But applying this trope to a whole genre of music is narrow minded. Just like when I would say all of metal is some hairy dudes shouting patent nonsense and brutalising electric guitars, or all of hip hop is talking over a rhythm.
To me, it's much more simple: I just don't like the "sound" of most pop songs. It's literally the tones and styles that just don't hit right with me. And also why I adore punk covers of those exact same songs. I don't know how to explain it better than that.
Same.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I do like a handful of pop songs as they are, but most of the they're it's just unappealing until someone does a rock/metal cover version. I often describe my taste in music as "I like rebellious guitar music" which does sound odd but it's the best way to describe it.
and thats ok. the problem is that pop is commonly seen as "inferior music" when its just not. there is nothing such as "inferior music" because music, just like any art, is subjective
bad romance is práctically a hard industrial track lol
That just sounds like a generational thing. There is a huge difference tonally and aesthetically from music even in the 2000s to 2010s music abd onwards. So your used to growing up with certain sounds so anything different is gonna sound alien to you
I’m a card carrying long haired, bearded tattooed rock dude and it’s been a massive part of my life and identity for over 30 years. Anyone who thinks performing or writing pop music takes no talent is just flat out ignorant. Listen to the bass parts on Duran Duran’s Rio. It’s damn near Geddy Lee tier. Listen to Miley Cyrus’ performance of Say Hello to Heaven at Chris Cornell’s tribute show. That performance brings a fucking tear to my eye. I would pay to see her perform an entire set of Soundgarden covers.
"I’m a card carrying long haired, bearded tattooed rock dude"
sure you are.
and for the record sound garden always sucked.
and i am a card carrying rock music lover grunge was just bad.
@@dvvaughn564 people can’t have opinions no more? 😂
Hit me baby one more time is one of the best songs ever written imo. It's iconic.
Thank you so much for this video. Listening to music is like eating food: you gotta love what you love and not let people influence whats good or bad. Life is short and there is SO much music we will never experience.
I think a lot of this boils down to the holier than thou attitude that many people who enjoy non-mainstream music like to adopt. Once you accept that you're not cool because of what you listen to, it's a lot easier to understand the value in other and some more mainstream genres. I truly believe that my getting into country music in college has made me a better metal listener because it forced me to shed an ego. At the end of the day, nothing is cool, nothing is better, nothing is more legitimate than the next thing. Just enjoy it for what it is and life is a lot smoother.
The new outlaw country/folk that I became aware of in the last 5 years or so has changed my mind completely - Tyler Childers, Colter Wall, Sturgill Simpson are fffantastic
Great video, I can listen to some Red Velvet or TWICE and enjoy myself, and then switch on some Krallice right after. I’m just grateful to live in a time like this where there aren’t any barriers
Their's all kinds of rock songs that are Pop that have been on mainstream radio. From Metallica's Enter Sandman, Motley Crue's girls girls girls, to Nickelback's Rockstar, or everything in between. Just depends what hot at the time.
He specifically said that this definition was ignored for the purpose of this video so your comment is pointless.
@@shortwinger3 aaand how many fucks do I give? Oh yeah, zero fucks
@@269KZoo4life yeah, go ahead and tell yourself that to keep from admitting that your point is null and void.
@@shortwinger3 bro, what the fuck is your problem?
People who give the argument pop is made by all the same people forget that John Feldmann helps produce half the punk/pop-punk albums that have come out in the past 20+ years
Those suck too
And they are also just wrong
We’ll that’s just like, your opinion, man.
Thank you for distinguishing between technical playing and songwriting, non-musicians have NO IDEA how much easier it is to write a complex riff for the sake of being complex than it is to write a perfectly concise and catchy tune
Definitely agree with this. Why is it though that all the time on this channel bands like Breaking Benjamin, Shinedown, and Disturbed are getting made fun of when they're doing this exact thing that he praises in pop music?
@@whowastheoneguy4719 I could be wrong but I get the impression finn respects all those kinds of bands, sure he calls them buttrock but i feel like thats almost more of a genre label than a diss at this point haha. Im kinda the same way, ive been a fan of all those bands for years but still kindve refer to them in a similar way.
I have a whole video praising those bands
This is a bit of a non point though, because good complex music is not good because of the complexity, but because of what the complexity conveys. Complex music can express things in ways that simple music can't, and vice versa. So yeah, if you write something complex just for the sake of it, it's easier, but writing something simple just for the sake of being simple is even easier. I don't really believe most musicians are out there writing complexicity or simplicity just for the sake of it, there's usually something they are trying to achieve. So comparing purposeless complexity with purposeful simplicity is a bit unfair.
And the purpose of music is not always to be catchy, I don't think noise musicians, avant garde composers or ambient artists are particularly worried about any of that. And what they do isn't any less valid.
Men especially hate music that appeal to teen girls, because teen girls are the ultimate in emasculation to insecure men. They have to over-compensate by going extra hard against it. Nothing is more punk than liking Justin Bieber because you like Justin Bieber and fuck what people think. I'm 44 years old....saw Soundgarden at Lollapalooza, saw too many legendary bands to even begin to list...and one of the last shows I went to was a Backstreet Boys concert and they were great! I had a blast!
I really liked your comment about how easy it is to play Taylor Swift songs. So easy. Not so easy to write. Another example is Tom Petty. His songs are so easy to play but it’s genius how he came up with such simple melodies. Same goes with The Cars. Simple songs to play but not easy to come up with. These artists are extremely creative to come up with such simple but catchy and memorable songs.
Talk to 99% of musicians in ANY genre and they'll say that they love pop music. The weird anti-pop shit is always coming from the fanbases, not musicians themselves
this comment tho
Honestly pop is just a genre. It has greats, it has trash, it is most involving when you're really into it. It is just as respectable as all the rest
99-04 Kylie Minogue is god tier music!
This video earned a sub from me. My exact line of thinking. I grew up listening to punk exclusively and refusing to listen to other music - only after realizing it's only "punk" to not care what other people think did I start listening to tons of pop music and really enjoying it.
As far as the claim that you need to write your own music to be authentic... nobody ever gives Frank Sinatra shit for not writing his own tunes - why is that? People need to adjust their mindset and just enjoy what they enjoy.
I have nothing but respect for pop. Taylor Swift, lady gaga, Arianna grande Sheeran, Britney Spears, Bruno Mars , and yes Justin Bieber (among others) are some of my favorite popular musicians of the last 10 or so years. Olivia Rodrigo, Dua Lipa, kid laroi (etc) are some of my favorite up and coming artists right now. I love heavy metal and rock but pop is equally up there.
"Closer" by nine inch nails is the greatest pop song ever written. Fight me.
It's actually Billie Jean
That’s pop? Nine is not pop, no way. Maybe not as hard of industrial as skinny puppy but still industrial. I love me some NIN!
@@jenniferbond7073 I owe my entire musical "awakening" to NIN, expanding my exposure to industrial, goth and EBM. I love them like no other. But what sets them apart is Trent is classically trained, and knows very well how to craft a pop song using an industrial base. Pretty Hate Machine, in his own words, is essentially a synth pop album. That is the genius of NIN- it takes a very special talent to bring industrial music to the malls and suburbs, and we owe his pop sensibilities a great deal for opening up that music to people like me, who would otherwise have never been exposed to it.
@@jenniferbond7073 NIN has heavy tracks, just depends on Trent's mood, that's why he wrote Hurt, perfect drug, as for closer. I keep my distance (IT'S TOO DAMN GOOD!)
Agreed.
And I get the joke unlike everyone else here.
Fight me
You say you want people to think but
a lot of your arguments is just sophism.
False equivalency.
Blatantly comparing a band writing a song vs a hive of producers is the same? No, when a band guitarist writes a riff or chord progression or whatever and shares it to the band the drummer and the bassist will still add their own parts since technically the guitarist didnt write bass lines it still is THEIR contribution.
Weak argument.
You said "writing is harder than playing a technical song" well invalid argument since they don't write songs and those written songs lack creativity so writing is only as hard as the songs' creativity..
Your analogy about actor/director with pop artist/producers is a red herring of the criticsm because its not not the actual issue.
You are basically acknowledging they are doing *less* than other musicians.
Yes that doesn't make a song not music but its an objective observation that they are doing LESS.
Just like how your fastfood fry cook isn't the same level as your gourmet chef. Fastfood is still food but that is a red herring argument.
Also didn't address copy pasted beats and chord progression. That alone invalidates it. Unique vocal melodies are the only saving grace in pop.
I also think those metal elitists who think fast notes that are hard to play but are just linear patterns is good are dumb and have the "man with the hammer problem" physically hard to play stuff isn't necessarily melodically complex or complex in thought.
Young women btw set all the trends and that threatens some
The irony of people from a genre that hasn't evolved or changed in 40 years that has nothing but formulaic bullshit complaining about pop being formulaic is hilarious 😆
Generalizing a music genre as a whole is a flawed decision in itself
Hating on pop is kind of immature. I used to be like that as a teenager, now I appreciete just good music from all kind of genres. And who could dislike Michale Jacksons music, or Adele?
I always hate it when someone trashes all pop music, then says that some gibberish fast guitar tapping is "real" music
Pop music sounds like crap to me, I get that a lot goes into writing and performance and they're talented but I just don't enjoy it and therefore I don't care how intricate or talented it is
when you said "punk is about thinking for yourself" it spurred something in my soul. so true. and as a pop musician with a strong DIY ethic and tons of punk/metal influences, this video exploring the nuances of pop music (especially compared to rock) was very important in helping me to contextualize my music within a larger framework. thank you!
I think a lot of people hate pop music because it's everywhere. You can't escape it, and it sometimes seems as though it's being forced on you.
Although, I feel the exact same way about trendy or over-hyped acts in rock, too.
Yes. When i had to listen to the radio at work I hated pop and the songs from those eras still annoy me. Now that I don't have to listen to pop i like it a lot more. I also find i tend to enjoy pop that doesn't become a hit, like non singles from my fave celebs.
A good song is a good song. I don’t care if it’s pop, punk, pop punk, heavy-metal. Ska ,rap or Country
Perfectly said!
yees!
As an admittedly all-around music snob I can say without a doubt that Kid Laroi’s “Stay” will probably be remembered as one of the best songs of the 2020s in general. If anything I’ve noticed pop songwriting is improving while the dirth of indie and other genres are either unchanging or have lost their way. Funny enough a lot of pop songwriters of today were either directly involved with more underground music of the 2000s or inspired by it. Now that these songwriters are at an age where their age and experience is taken more seriously, their influence shows in the wide array of better arranged pop music of today. I guarantee you someone like Billie Eilish would not have made it big in the 2000s and would have been relegated to that weird indie chick.
15:22 I agree. I still dislike most pop music, especially modern/current stuff, but not because it's popular. I just don't like how a lot of it sounds, often the vocals are annoying (especially guys who sing in high-pitched voices as if that's sexy) and the songs themselves often don't do it for me even if they are skillfully written on a technical level (which they often are not.)
Beyoncé has All The Single Ladies which is admittedly well written but she also has Who Run The World? Girls! which is pretty much the same primitive bar on repeat for 4 minutes. A lot of these pop artists have good songs but few have consistently good songs.
There are definitely pop songs/artists I like and alternative songs/artists I don't; the popularity or obscurity of a song or artist has no bearing on how much I like them and I think people for whom it does are weird whether they're trend-chasing or being contrarian. Like what you like and give no fucks.
I agree, another example is Rihanna, though in her case I think her earlier music is much better than the later stuff. Umbrella, Only Girl and Love the Way You Lie are pretty much bangers but Work and Wild Thoughts are absolutely awful and for the longest time I didn't even recognise they were by the same artist.
@@Lilium805 Umbrella is a great song, definitely, very good example of one of those few modern pop songs I like (if it counts as modern at like 13 years old.)
I remember there were a few songs that sounded suspiciously like it coming from various artists for a couple years after it came out.
Instead of 'pop' I distinguish between commercial and music made for reasons other than simply money. Much of today's music is in the commercial category. But Billie Eilish isn't, not Adele. But as far as I can tell Katy Perry's is, covered over by some concept of expressing yourself. By this definition much 80s hair metal was totally commercial. Metallica in 80s definitely not. And later??? That's where things get tricky. Bruce Springsteen had one philosophy of his music prior to Born in the USA, another afterwards.
Also commercial music tends to be the emotional equivalent of McDonald's. That is, it tastes good, but a diet of it won't give you the right kind of nutrition. In commercial music the emotions are a trope rather than a display of the difficult emotions that make up reality. Singing gender correct music with anger is just a meme at this point. It is the new commercial concept. So basically I hear the money, lots of it, more than genuineness. But I do feel we are leaving the pop demimonde. Billie Eilish is a sign of something new.
I have an open mind and 13,000 LPs and CDs. I find much of the popular music of the last ten years or so to be emotionally weak, sad, manipulative. Not all. There is great music that falls through the cracks. And a few acts today do have some integrity. But essentially we are in a high tech version of the late 40s early 50s, without a Jazz or Rhythm and Blues or Honky Tonk underbelly. (Unless you can convince me I'm wrong.)
Essentially you have given us your version of the popist theory, which says that music for girls and gays is looked down upon. I never found it convincing. Not that Rock music or Punk is free from a lot of problems. But then enemy is not a style, but an approaching that empties music of meaning to make money from emotional manipulation, which can infect any style.
I guess P!nk was before Gaga - and she's having lot o dark lyrics.
I like some pop music. But generally, I like a lot of guitar in my music and heavier riffs and the emotion that pervades from it which is why I don't prefer pop normally.
I definitely like '90s pop and stuff that I listen to as a little kid but ultimately I just don't like the sound of new pop music
Add on early ‘10s pop music, as well, and it speaks for me.
Ok boomer
Billie Eilish and her brother Finneas wrote the songs for the fictional pop boyband 4 Town in Disney’s turning red. That is pure talent right there.
Love this video so much!
Great finish. Punk is going your own way. On my shelves there's CD:s with Britney, Black Flag, Pet Shop Boys, The Stooges, Deftones, Hank Williams, Depeche, Outkast, Erasure, Seasick Steve, Grimes, Robyn and TONS of jazz.
There's nothing so metal as when Nick Cave sits alone by his piano singing Into My Arms.
2nd this. This is as punk as it gets
Max Martin is a damn legend. Listen to those 90’s era Productions, songs may be soft asf but god damn they’re so groovy and sound so good.
@Madden 07 Soundtrack Fan Account [Kendrick AOTY] can’t argue… those are also great songs! Urge you to take a look at his catalog though there’s a lot of bangers you’re probably forgetting. Also check Rick Beatos Breakdown of into you from Ariana Grande 🤟
Disagree! Everything Max Martin touches turnes into gold. When Britney Spears realesed Femme Fatale album it had hit after hit. Then she decided to switch it up on next album and use "overrated" producer Will.I.am the album wasn't good and the sales were weak.. Almost every big hit single she had was produced by Max Martin. Same goes for Backstreet Boys etc.
What an incredible video! Thank you so much for sharing this. I've always tried to get this point across to people who want to seem "edgy" because they dislike pop music. I went to college for music and was always looked down upon because pop's my favorite genre, there are so many misconceptions people have and trying to make an artist's work "less" just because it doesn't fit your standard of how a song should be is such a sad way to look at art. Art is made from the heart and from emotions, if that translates into a 4 chord song, what's the issue? Making art just for the sake of it being complex doesn't really ring as authentic to me. IF the art is complex as a result of the creative process, that's great! but if it isn't it's just as valid. Also, i think the element of misogyny (as well as homophobia) you mentioned is often ignored; these people love to hate on female artists, female audiences and anything that is seen as "gay". Straight male artists just don't get half the amount of hate and criticism as female artists do. Music is subjective and it's perfectly fine to like and dislike certain genres! But trying to boost your ego by feeding yourself the narrative that certain genres are superior is just pretentious and annoying, let people enjoy the art they connect with! Not vibing with the top 40 doesn't make you special!
🙄
Heaven forbid someone does not like pop because it does nothing for them. Heaven for bid someone likes Jazz over country. Heaven forbid people have there own personal taste. Stop being a cry baby about what someone likes or does not like and move on.
@@evacody1249 it’s so silly to say pop does nothing for you. Like this video said “what is Pop?“ it’s literally impossible that you can’t find a pop song that ‘does something for you’ because potentially anything can be pop music or have pop appeal. Pop is a chameleon genre that is constantly shapeshifting. It’s for this reason why I find blanket criticisms of Pop truly myopic.
@@evacody1249 did you not read the fact that people try to force the fact that they dont like pop and just straight up hate on others for liking pop
learn how to read sir
I know this is like the argument of arguments but a lot of stuff you mention I wouldn't call pop...
To pick up on your example with movies, that works really well: You don't call The Matrix a Keanu Reeves movie, it's a movie starring Keanu. I think the Pop music scene sells you multiple layers of lies and that is the real issue IMO. The amazing musicians who perform and record for pop acts are, for the most part, completely unknown to the public, so are many songwriters and producers while calling "an amazing artist" to someone who's maybe just a good singer or maybe not even that since technical ability is, many times, also part of the lie.
So, to me, the problem is not really pop music but pop industry where when you listen to "a Katty Perry song" you have no ideia how much of Katty is in there, did she write it? helped write? dis she play something in the recording? Can she even sing it or is it just editing? And yet you are pushed to believe that that work of art is "by Katty Perry"
Now, I know a lot of what I said could apply to rock and metal bands, the difference is that in rock and metal this fraudulent attitude is frowned upon while in pop is the industry standard.
very well said
I mean that's what album credits are for. Performers not writing songs they release is something that goes back to the earliest years of popular music. Hell tons of jazz revolves around standards that were written and are interpreted by other artists.
Ultimately the people who listen to Katy Perry listen to it because she's the one singing, and often times the songwriters behind a lot of pop songs don't really want the attention from people unless they actually care on a deeper level (i.e. they read the credits). Also the performer can be involved in other ways, from choosing the songs to dictating the artistic direction of an album.
I think this is kind of a non issue because ultimately the music sounds how it sounds regardless of what's in the credits. I don't really care much if I listen to Beyonce album, if she wrote the songs or not, it's not going to sound better or worse.
Also this attitude is most certainly not frowned upon in rock, it was once the standard. Eventually it stopped being so but even today if you look at album credits you will see songwriters that aren't in the band here and there. There's nothing fraudulent, no one is lying.
Here’s a fun fact: Elvis Presley, one of the GOATs of all time, performed over 500 songs but wrote 0 of them.
Mind-blowing but true. You don’t have to be a great writer to be a great singer or performer. One of the other undeserved reasons why people hate pop: “people don’t WRITE their own songs so therefore they can’t be GOOD”. Look at Elvis, he is one of the most iconic and important artists of all time and loved by pretty much everyone and wrote none of his own songs.
I love what I love and I dont care what anyone thinks about it lol I can listen to Britney spears, then the sex pistols, then lynyrd skynyrd, then 2pac. I am not ashamed to like whats good.
Thank you for this video! I’ve always been a punk, pop punk, and rock fan but I absolutely adore pop music.
Awesome video, definitely agree. Also kinda wanna add something regarding songwriters as I'm pretty sure there might also be some people who just hate performing but love writing songs, or who want to see their song performed a certain way or by a certain artist. And yeah actually creating a good soundtrack with a music production software is way harder than a lot of people believe. Personally I just listen to what I like and what I'm feeling like and I couldn't care less about the genre. For example I'm excited for the new Slipknot album coming out September 30th but I currently mainly listen to hyperpop, german hip hop and pop punk with the occansional rock or metal song mixed in between. One great way to tear down genre restrictions (for a lack of a better word) would be the "Flow" function of deezer in my opinion.
I'm a young girl who always wanted to be a musician, so I started learning instruments since 11 years old. However, being a fan of metal, I've met the community, and its culture really did some damage to my perception of music and my craft.
I've always been a composer, not much of a performer, even though I can be considered a virtuoso guitarist. This always led me to frustration trying to record or even play all the stuff needed for the songs I was creating at the time. At some point I decided to stop listening and just do my own thing. I discovered that pop music is goated and generally better, more well suited for me. Pop as a style, not as a genre. I feel more happy with what I'm composing nowadays and I am able of performing it, but I still need to meet musicians who are better than me, I suck.
Either way, fuck the gatekeepers, be happy
I was raised on herbie Hancock, newcleus , run dmc. Huge punk metal. Good music is anything that moves you .
Herbie Hancock? You mean John Hancock?
Music production style was better between 2008-2014. Everything now is so compressed with very limited dynamics
Stop lumping "everything now" together if you expect to be taken seriously
@@fclefjefff4041 ok then don’t take me seriously then. Everyone else knows exactly what I’m talking about
@@christophermoore9436 I know what you're talking about. Saying "everything" so compressed is clueless boomer energy
@@fclefjefff4041 Everything is really compressed. Even other genres besides radio pop like rock and metal have a very specific kind of heavy compression that makes a lot of bands sound similar
@@christophermoore9436 I understand what you're saying, my issue (to which you seem oblivious) is your choice of the word "everything." There are people making recordings with literally no compression at all. I'm one of them.
I really love pop, along with rock and metal and many other genres. I think when you actively engage in things outside of your comfort zone, you get to experience the joy of music with a lot of different nuances and perspectives. It makes the entire listening experience that much more impactful. Not everyone consumes music actively, which is fine. But if you call yourself an audiophile or music junkie/lover, writing off a whole genre simply because you haven’t put the effort to understand or look deeper into it is pretty hypocritical. Also there are a ton of sub genres in pop that sound very different.
@Metal Head 🗣️ and that’s fine! If it’s not for you, then it’s not for you. It’s generally impossible to like everything.
what I personally love about this video is your explanation about how it is related to the channel and being “punk”. that’s the point I respect a lot and actually what can be tracked down across all of your content on this channel. prejudice just doesn’t help humans, you gotta shake it off and think for yourself
Demi Lovato's new song Substance honestly fucking SLAYS. The chorus has an honest to god ubermetal embelishment to tie into the verses and it's fucking great. Nita Strauss plays with her now too.
She has writing credits on it too, which for me is a nice bonus but in the end there are artists who pick songs they should've left to someone else, and other artists that can write good songs who can also pick songs they haven't written but are self aware enough to know they can do them justice. That's Demi Lovato.
I remember getting Katy Perry's teenage dream or whatever it's called album on a road trip for work and blasting it on repeat driving my co workers crazy. I truly love that album and for me it's nice to take a break from rock and metal where as a long time drummer and guitarist I sometimes over analyze what everyone's doing and playing, where as when I listen to pop my mind doesn't focus on every little detail as much and I can sing along like an idiot and just have fun. If it's good it's good, screw what people think or what genre it is. If you play music a lot can be learned about song writing if you really pay attention, even if you dislike or hate the music. Great video Finn!!!
I appreciate that when examples of bad pop music were cited, examples were given from both recent and older music. Helps avoid the boomer-energy "all music was better in my day" takes.
I'm just tired of those repetetive copy and paste pop songs. Literally all of them have the same beat in the chorus. In the first half it's just a kick with some very generic bass in between, the second part of the chorus just adds claps and repeats the same line. That's in every pop song chorus.
There's loads of psychology studies into music genre preferences. They're quite hard to read through so not gonna fetch a quote from anywhere, but the thing that stood out to me about Pop music, is that it's a genre appreciated by Uncreative people. There's a few other genres for uncreative people but Pop was very unspecific with other personality traits if I remember right. I think it's obvious why people who do like creative genres decide to shit on the most popular genre which happens to be an uncreative one right?
Interesting that supposedly creative people would be so narrow minded and ignorant!
@@ThePunkRockMBA why is it narrow minded? the studies are about favourite music genres, it's just a correlation
I love punk hardcore death metal all that shit.
And I fucking LOVE MELANIE MARTINEZ. Very dark and interesting music.
I’m a swifty and also listen to korn. Sometimes in the same workout session ☮️
“Most” pop personality
I hate tattoos
Tattoos become popular
I love tattoos now
Tattoos become hated
Wow, I hate tattoos 😂
Edit: this is why I am upset with BMTH, they left rock yet come back to it because it’s popular now. It’s selling out. Idk, but yes, they are admittedly good. I am just not about the money and sell out, do whatever is popular, I like real and raw and doing something because you love it.
But yes, I love music and I can appreciate a lot of things within a song from different genres. Just, yeah. You’re right though, you can check out the Rock goes Pop songs that Our Last Night do
I've grown to enjoy and respect pop alot over time. Except the chainsmokers, that level of lyrical pandering is just unforgivable.
You can't forget Kanye West changed the sound of Pop and Rap music when he dropped my Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, but ynow people can't accept that Kanye is a great artist anymore.
Despite playing folk punk, covering Lady Gaga's "Poker Face" (badly) is a personal favorite. Plus, everyone knows the lyrics and sings along. Pop music is oddly cross-cultural.
Biggest reason I don't care for most "pop" music is the predictability of much of the song. I understand that the songs are written to the masses to garner success by being easily digested, but I know that I personally like the surprise that jazz, progressive, math or avant-garde music provide.
Finn, I do think it's funny that you post ATDI to talk about the peeps who have disdain for pop music because Cedric and Omar are writing a lot of music in more of a pop format since the last Mars Volta album in 2012. They just came out from hiatus as TMV and put two singles so far that are very pop in structure. Check 'em out!
My discovery and love for metal and rap never stopped me from also loving some pop also. I like what I like. I don't like Country but I even like a handful of Country songs.
There’s a thing I can’t really get my head around. It’s 2022, right? Subcultures pretty much no longer exist. You don’t really have to prove your credentials to your metal crew or your hip hop crew or your techno crew or your whatever crew. Better still, music is much more widely accessible than it used to be back in the day. You’re no longer limited to these few albums you can save up to buy or these particular radio stations and/or TV channels that only play this and that genre. On the contrary, you’re just a couple of clicks/taps away from literally a n y music you wish to listen to at the moment. So, couldn’t we just, you know, officially consign genre tribalism to the past…?
As for the “pop is easy!” nonsense, if you create any sort of art, be that music, prose, sculpture, visuals, whatever, you’ll surely know that the most challenging pieces are those which in their final form look simple. You think writing massive hits is bread and butter? Do it! Release a hit single. Then another one. And yet another one. Back them with a hit LP. Go on tour. Sell out huge arenas worldwide. Rub your shoulders with all them Lovatos, Grandes, Sheerans, Marses and so on. Appear in a few commercials. Endorse a couple of brands. When you’re already a zillionaire, which should take no more than two, maybe two and a half years, grab the cash, give everybody a finger, get back to your garage and play your experimental progressive brootal melo-technical deathcore till you die. And if you don’t want to taint your good honour with such discreditable acts, tell me how and I’ll do it. We’ll split the money 50/50. Or 45/45 and give the remaining ten per cent to Finn, so that he can pay off his mortgage and feel rewarded for the inspiration, uh? BTW, Finn, I remember you expressed a very similar view in one of your videos. So maybe you deserve more than ten per cent. Now let’s just patiently wait for our creative genius to come ;p
so well put 👌
I'm gonna need some citations on the most challenging art being simple. Pretty sure the degree of complexity is irrelevant (and complexity is a vague concept to begin with).
Also this argument about writing pop music being hard/easy is pointless in a vacuum. Like sure, writing a #1 hit might be hard, but do anyone actually care when 30 years from now no one knows that it existed? Of all the music that continues to be talked about years down the line, only a portion was actually at that level of commercial success. Same can be said about the hundreds of nobody bands making sterile math rock or whatever, as opposed to the few that make generally well received music that nonetheless isn't charting. Complexity is not better nor worse than simplicity.
Punk rock MBA is literally the dude who says
"I like all music"
And actually likes all music lol
Exactly
His name is Finn lol
i do too, my playlists will prove that ;)
Finn:I like all music.
Also Finn: Melodic Death Metal sucks! Ska sucks! Indie sucks!
Lady Gaga is the Rockstar of Pop music!!
There is nothing less punk / metal than not listening to a music artist or group because you're afraid of what others might think.
I don't like pop because it's just not good music to me. If you like it, that's great for you. I just personally don't like it because it's kind of generic, imo.
Pop music is catchy & serves it’s purpose. I personally dont care what music sounds like, if my ears like it? I’m cool with it!
Pop gives you moments e.g - At the end of every April we say “It’s gonna be MAY” and every summer you can play LFO (RIP Rich and Devin) “Summer Girls” and rap along to the catchy lyrics!
But then you had a group like East 17 who’s songwriter Tony Mortimer used to write about planet/global issues sometimes - but he wrapped it up in a palatable way for the masses to consume.
Pop is definitely not one dimensional 🤙🏾
Right said Fred...actually they have an interesting background!
Gotta give Madonna credit where credit is due. She went from Material Girl to essentially "I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want and you can go ahead and try to classify it if you feel like it."
Then straight to occultism and talking about blowing up the capitol.
@@DaveS71 thats pretty metal though
I agree with everything you say, but I'm just not a fan of those particular artists mentioned in this video (aside from Charli xcx). There's a lot of good indie pop or art pop -- Grimes, Kerli, Charli XCX, Benee, Pictureplane, purity ring, phem, kaiyko, fka twigs, Hana, Christine and the queens, yves tumor, jean Dawson, etc..
What I find funny as a metal and hardcore fan, I can see the excuses to hate on pop music as fairly accurate for metal and hardcore too
Absolutely, a lot of the same criticisms apply to metal and hardcore but the gatekeepers aren't ready to talk about that
Party Rock Anthem and Sexy And I Know It by LMFAO are REALLY GOOD!!!! WHY DID YOU SAY THAT!!!??? THEY'RE A PART OF THE 2010'S POP CULTURE!!!!
This is why I like this channel. No lies were told here. As a Metal Fan I always took issue with people’s unwillingness to be open about music. You don’t have to like it but to not like it based on arbitrary things or someone’s opinion is just dumb. You can like a little of everything
you know why i dont like pop? because its over played. Simple as that, when you hear the same 10 songs being played everyday for months to a year, it slowly makes you hate it.
Long time fan of punk and hardcore but pop music, especially bubblegum pop or synthpop, is right there with it among some of my favourite music.
Lights, Taylor Swift, Carly Rae Jepsen, and Kesha all get regular spins.
When I first heard Carly Rae Jepsens album Emotion that shit was on repeat for weeks!
@@altipathy Kiss, Emotion, and Dedicated all have bangers on them. She definitely deserves more credit as a pop artist.
I love this video, thanks. With respect to music genres, my motto is that there's only two kinds of music: good and bad.
To be sure, I have my own tastes and some genres speak more directly to me than others or move me more than others, but there's no such thing as a genre or kind of music that's just categorically bad.
That said, my reaction to those three samples you played (ca. 3:35) actually do all sound the same to me. Not exactly the same, of course, but they blend together to my ear. The timbre of the voices, for example (autotune, maybe)? And the beats? The samples are short so that might not hold true on a longer listen, and the shortness also makes it hard for me to identify why/in what particulars they sound the same to my ear, but they do. It's that "radio-friendly" vibe, maybe? The (limited) dynamics? Maybe it's just the recording techniques?
Anyway, I"m just curious if anyone else hears those three as kind of homogeneous for some reason.
P.S. I agree with pretty much all of your points, incidentally. Especially the point about the role sexism plays or might play in informing some people's aversion to pop.
I was silly when I was younger. I got into the whole, "I hate pop because it's not punk" phase, but ironically, I was into pop punk, which is POP MUSIC. It wasn't too long before I got over that, I guess I was just looking to have some kind of credibility as a teenager, haha.
Pop gave us Prince. Nuff said.
Gotta disagree with this one
I loved pop in the 80s. I hated pop in the 90s perhaps only because it was expected of a teenage alt kid. But today, I cant understand the vocal approach to pop music songwriting. I just cant hear the melody anymore which is what I thought pop music was supposed to be about. Like compare the Human League’s “Dont you want me?” to Justin Bieber’s “ Where are you now”. You can hum, whistle or play the former song’s vocal melody on an accordion and it will be instantly recognisable, you can’t do that with the Justin Bieber song. Its all about production
Some pop music is alright and I like and appreciate pop influence in metal but modern pop is so shit it's unreal
Solid arguments. I for one agree. As for the last, the opposite is true (in any field) i believe: Don't put something on a pedestal simply because someone told you it's great and everybody likes it. So there's no reason for you to not like it. And if you don't you don't belong with the team. Belonging is good. Staying true to your beliefs and developing your strength, thinking and character is so much better. And it's not easy. But that's how you make progress in life. Tough it out. Develop a critical ability. Come out the other end a new person. And as that nice saying goes: 'Be yourself. Everyone else is taken'.
Terrific video. As a young adult I didn’t give pop its due because I perceived it as music that was designed to appeal to literally everyone. So if your guidance counsellor and 13 year sister liked it, that was a red flag. I always felt that the visuals took priority over the music and the focus on being a star, and selling albums came off as borderline hedonistic to me. As I’ve mellowed out I see the deep flaws in this logic and total painting in broad strokes. I’m also a firm believer in music being a great healer in life. So if you’re inspired by Ariana Grande, or Morbid Angel, more power to you either way. Plus as you pointed out, so truly great art has been made in the pop genre.
Also punk in the US was getting back to single driven pop music. Just ask the Ramones. Also ABBA songs are pretty complex. The problem I have with the whole culture of pop music is the hyper capitalist commodification of human expression.
Prior to forming Right Said Fred, the Fairbrass brothers had been playing music since the mid-1970s: as part of a band called The Actors, the brothers had toured with Suicide and supported Joy Division at the Factory club in Manchester. - Wikipedia
Making a Pop song is easy. No doubt about it! Making a Successful Pop Song that sticks and can be seen as something worth listening to. It's hard that's the real challenge.
New pop music is about Tik Tok so you only need 10 seconds of a song to be good.
I fucking LOVE pop music. I also FUCKING. LOVE. Metal. The fans of each genre who don't listen to the other are missing out. Great pop music can be just exhilarating as great metal. Plus, why do metalheads not like to admit they like pop melodies in their music? Slipknot? Opeth? I could go on.
Also, Dua Lipa and Tomb Mold belong together in a playlist. Metal/Pop playlists are the best playlists, ever.
Also love the Bonnie McKee shoutout, she's a super talented pop writer!