Wes, I work for a full time custom farmer. We run 2 MF 9870's and 3 JD W260's. Both have their pros and cons, but when it comes down to it, both machines get the job done. I personally operate a W260 and i will tell you that when we are cutting 12ft tall hay grazer the MF 9870 is faster and burns less fuel.. We average 13000 acres per machine per year. If the MF's were cheap or junk then we wouldn't use them. The best machines hands down when it comes to reliability. Although, I do agree the cab could be bigger..
The Massey will eat the Deere for lunch. We've ran them side by side and no comparison. Massey will use way less fuel too. Neighbors have a w235 and start fires couple times a year. Demo one Wes and you will see what I mean.
I'll go head to head any day any crop conditions. Only thing Deere makes worth a shit is round balers. Hay eating sobs. Not gonna get in a pissing match though. Everyone has their own opinions.
That’s a Fella disc mower !! It will cut circles around that John Deere !!! Unlike what this clueless dude says, that Fella mower is 100 times easier to work on than what that Deere is !!! Sunbelt Ag Expo in Moultrie, Georgia, we’re offsite prepping disc mowers for demonstrations the next day. The John Deere threw the entire cutter bar out from under the damn thing. John Deere hauls that piece of shit back up to an airplane hanger they use as a staging area for all of their equipment. They put it inside of the hanger and locked the doors to where nobody could see that piece of garbage. LOL!!! They never demoed or showed that damn thing for the entire show because of it falling all to pieces on them !! He claimed to know so much about all of it, yet he didn’t even know what half of the stuff he was talking about even was !!! Now as for as what I know about all it, well I’ll just say this much about it. Former Southeastern United States Service Manager for Vicon & PZ hay equipment lines. Former North American Service Manager for the Fella hay equipment line. Former Territory Sales Manager for Fella hay equipment in the states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma & Texas. Former Territory Sales Manager for Fella hay equipment in the states of North Carolina, South Carolina & North Georgia for a short time as well. Former Ford New Holland dealership Service Manager. Born & raised on a Dairy Farm in Southeastern Louisiana, alone with doing custom hay work for close to 30 years !!! So yes, I know my way around a piece of farm equipment, especially a piece of hay equipment !!!
I find this review interesting as he didn't actually use the MF in before reviewing it. Maybe he has since. I've had that same conditioning system in a MF 9635 swather since 2008. Haven't had a problem with the head at all. It's called a double conditioning system. It works fine. Does better on alfalfa then a single. They do offer a single conditioner also. That swather is a 9860. Which means it isn't all that powerful. Its the smaller one since it has the smaller head. The 9870 has a much larger engine and runs a 16 foot head. The tires are fine. Unless you are on hillsides I guess. So get different tires when buying. I can't knock the JD swather since I've never driven one. I'm sure they are fine. I wouldn't like the conditioner he has in the JD. I don't know the price of either, but as everyone knows Green paint usually means more money. But here they are very competitive on swather prices as MF has the market.
I’ve driven a Deere her in Idaho as a demo and i was disappointed. I could only cut at like 8 mph and the windrows were clumpy. We have 4 wr9980 swathers and they can cut up to 18 mph and the windrows are smooth. I wish he would have tried that Massey before being so negative about it
How can you review something without actually using it? Most of your review focuses on safety concerns rather than whether the machine is any good or not. I appreciate what you're saying, but really, has one of these ever gone up in flames?
Well, that fine video didn't sell me on the JD. You gave your opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. They way you gave it pretty much made this worthless as a review. Unless you have operated both machines without bias and then can show how one performed better than the other, can provide maintenance records for both machines, have at least looked at the manual to see how difficult the machine is to repair, this is just an opinion piece and personal preference. Again, there is nothing wrong with that, however please don't expect me to share your sentiments. I chose to watch the video and I wish that I had not. It wasted 19 minutes of my life for what I thought was a review all because you assume things about a machine that you have never even used. Incidentally, Heston was making mowers like that long before JD got in that business.
The twin max conditioner system, (the one with the 5 rollers), makes the most difference for us in alfalfa usually baling 3-4 days after cutting. We have run massey's/hesston's for roughly the last 15 years. The reliability of the bearings on the conditioner rolls much better than previous models. The tensioning system on the conditioner rolls is ran hydraulically. It's easy to change using the valve and rocker switch reading the pressure on the gauge. The MF 9860 is not the largest model in the lineup and they come with 16' headers as well. The fan is a reversing fan to blow off chaff that can accumulate on the rear of the machine. I have ran the W260 with 500R header as well as a 260 norower. For "our application" the Massey works best for us as our market is export alfalfa and timothy. Massey is coming out with a new machine next year which will be a larger scale tractor but probably the header won't change much as it works well. With the MF 9870 rated at 245 hp, I see them bumping that up to 260 ish to keep up with competition and unfortunately it takes power to turn the extra rolls.
We have the steel on steel rollers on our Massey's with the double conditioning system. Our operation, as far as hay goes, is usually 50/50 alfalfa and timothy for export. The steel on steel rollers can be too aggressive on the alfalfa if not set up properly. The tensioning system on the rollers is controlled hydraulically and is simple only taking seconds to adjust. You have more of and advantage, dry down wise, with this system more in alfalfa than grasses. the steel rollers compared to the rubber rollers is mostly user preference, but the steel rollers will last longer.
Would be far too aggressive for alfalfa, you'd want rubber rolls for that. I really don't know what you'd use the steel on steel for flails are typically good for hay.
I agree. Also the way that DEF tank is positioned looks like an afterthought. Although they do seem like quite different machines, with the heston being quite a bit smaller and having the conditioning rolls.
the DEF systems don't get nearly as hot as the exhaust filters do. i can still touch the can on my tractor after running it hard. its cooler than the exhaust pipes themselves. not much of a fire risk there.
*Yep this machine is like a poorly thought out up scaled Sears riding lawn tractor and you are so right about those diesel particulate systems. When it goes in to re-generation mode parts of the system can reach 900 degrees CENTIGRADE which as you pointed out is way to hot to be that close to plastic tanks of flammable fluids. I would really like to know how many of these machines have mysteriously caught fire while working out in the field.*
hmm still I don't see a good airflow in that tractor. Can't you add a Fan like below or on the side to suck out the air from under the hood? Or does it stay cool enough under the JD hood ? IS that DEF Exhaust injector area maybe glass packed? It looks way to big for me just to be a normal DEF injection system.
hey Wes I run a Hesston 8550 with a 15' disc header, yes the the windrower is 16 years old only has 23,500 acres on it, things break, I was considering getting into one of these newer units. I'm not a fan of the double rolls, that's silly, but they definitely could re-enginer where that emissions crap goes .
You make some valid points onelonelyfarmer but we run 3 Massey wind rowers and we would take them over a John Deere since they condition the Alfalfa and Timothy more. That Massey is different than ours our def tank isn't off the side like that one is. We also put ours through some pretty ruff terrain and they hold out great. Drive the price of equipment before you pick it apart we have demo New holland and John Deere and the Massey have always came on top of our list. But every brand has their downfall.
wes sprry bud id have to buy the massey over the deere just because massey is the better dealer. and we have 3 agco cutters and they work well and have been tough as hel[.
Do we know if the radiator cooling fan is a pusher rather than pulling air through the radiator, , or/also does it "reverse" rotation intermittently to "clean" the chaff off of the surfaces that it cools? if the fan is driven electrically or hydraulically, that would be relatively "simple" .. I have no dog in the discussion, just trying to understand the known unknowns : - )
first of all it is a small one, 9870 is the big one, it happens to be a twin max with extra rolls. that thing will out cut any John Deere. I had a John Deere, couldn't get rid if it fast enough. I like ya but you really don't know what your talking about. by the way, the fan is hydraulic and reverses on its own and blows out the radiator.
if ur doing alfalfa, you need good conditioning. out here in the west Massey's are very popular. can't go wrong with a Deere also. I don't think their as bad as you think tho, just have to get one out in a field
jeff overton My cousin has roughly 200 acres of alfalfa hay and his 1431 New holland double rolled conditioning system does just fine. I agree with Wes here. Way to much going on there.
@@sstroh08 for high quality alfalfa double roll crimpers beat flail conditioners, hesstons 4 crimpers beat both styles in alfalfa, i have new holland double roller would prefer hesston crimpers if i was still putting up a lot of alfalfa
Wes I think your 100 percent correct on this thing don't have might at equipment but you pointed out some very obvious errors on that Massey I have mostly case ih stuff here except a JD planter that I'd never trade for a red one
I learnt the lesson of chaff build up yesterday. the day after using a front mounted flail topper I was stirring slurry, stationary tractor, revs flat out. next thing I know smoke is pouring out from under the cab steps, right next to the DEF system
Very good points. When are the design guys going to get some farmer experience in the design room with them. I am fine with the head as that is an optional head but that engine and Hydralics compartment compared to Deere's is crazy.
Active regen's yield temps of around 1000 degrees. Passive regen's can get even hotter. Active is a stationary induced regen's. Passive is when your out moving. Idle time can load the DOC and DPF and it will regen's more often or face plug on you.
some great advice there Wes! Its goos to have someone with experience break shit down...who knows u might save a life by the video..who knows.maybe not...but the cons out weigh the pros in the particular instance...great video
My Dad ran Massey for years and we never had any issues. That being said, he would also say that Massey was built to do one job where John Deere was built to take on many different jobs. quite a bit of truth in that.
I agree with you about needless complexity. We live in a world where everyone seems to need their toaster to have WiFi. Having said that, I get the sense you'd already made up your mind to *not* like this machine before you ever looked at it.
those are some very valid points, and while to an extent you may be a bit biased with you not really needing the rolls that much for your uses, you have some great points, but I do place part of the blame on the EPA for regulating the shit out of all this stuff forcing them to add all these fire hazards to everything and as someone said, if this was early in their stages of trying to integrate that crap into their design.....
Alot of the problems you find are just differences in the spec of the machine, are they not? There is a 240hp model, 16ft head is available, tyres can be changed. it would be interesting to see the price comparison.
'I don't want to talk badly about it'....that's all you did. A few times it seemed like you were lookin' for things to dislike instead of just giving us a review of the machine, good or bad.
Keith Brettell when did he go looking for something bad? He's basing his opinion on the equipment he owns/owned, experience, and his field conditions. He liked the cutter head minus the conditioning rollers (he might change his mind if it was explained how they work and thought the suspension was a little weak but the design was interesting). All the other things are valid issues. When you are dealing with dry hay or fuel/hydraulics and it lands on that 1000 deg SCR its a big fire hazard. Also the alt and battery near that heat will significantly reduce their expected life. Cab was small and comfort /ergonomics are important when you spend 12-16 hrs in the machine a day. He also said that of you did alfalfa it will probably be a great machine.
Best thing about those Masseys is the vcool system on the back. Hydraulic drivin fan that reverses every 15 mins. No matter how bad the conditions it doesn’t overheat.
Like the flare conditioner, used a John Deere 7' 10" mover conditioner for years. It's a toy compared to what you use! Never had any problem with it. Know your busy, I'm looking at getting a 7210 or a 7410 which has gave you the best service.
you should look at the macdon bi directional sp go a good speed down the road and are easy to work on i worked at a dealer for them up here in canada and i liked working on the macdon products better then and this else
lol What's shocking about a JD guy hating on a Massey? That's pretty much how it's been as long as I can remember no? Honestly, your impressions of the machine seem fair to me, I really have no horse in the race, we would never be able to buy a SP Windrower of any brand anyway we don't farm the amount of ground required to ever justify it. There is a couple things I am curious about. 1, was this machine designed pre-emissions and then retrofitted with the emissions equipment later on as an afterthought? That would explain the foolish placement of the DPF or whatever it is. 2, What is the price of a machine like this in comparison to an equal sized JD/NH/Case etc. and is your JD even a fair comparison for a machine of this size? All in all, thanks for the quick review on it, I didn't really see or hear anything that was off base.
Most people look at the price tag and try to save money but really what if you had a fire on one,,, is 30k worth the trip to the burn center.... Thanks Wes for pointing out the small details that most overlook when it comes to safety..........
Wes just to let you know New Holland doesn't use a DPF filter which builds the most heat in the exhaust system, they only use a SCR (DEF) system for emissions. A DPF filter will get up to over 1200F because there is a carbon filter inside that slows the exhaust speed compressing the gasses and increases temperature also when it goes into regen mode it will get even hotter, the SCR system doesn't have that restrictive filter and will not get near as hot, plus as the DEF is injected it actually cools the exhaust slightly.
Hey im a round bale guy can you explain your reasons for using big sqare bales wats the benifit of then to round bales...can you just share your vieus on round bales plese?
No offense to OLF, but as a farmer I got nothing useful out of this review, only biased opinions and assumptions. Just like some 15 year old kid kicking the tires.
Dry hay is almost like gasoline. We lucked up back n the day when my baler caught fire from a bearing failure. The flames were contained in the chain area and we had a couple of gallons of drinking water on the truck. The water and pulling flames off with gloves saved the harvest and the baler. All of us worked together to contain the flames as we worked. I was pretty scared. LOL
We have 2 massey tractors on the farm . They do pretty well. Front end's on the things break like crazy and leak oil a lot. To each there own every brand has there problems and people like what they like.
Ah, ok. Honestly, not trying to be an armchair warrior or anything, but as I work in fire protection, it seems like good sense to spend $50 on an ABC can to potentially save a $50k - $150k piece of machinery. I'm actually kind of surprised some of the bigger pieces don't come from the factory with an automatic vehicle extinguishing system already on board.
WOW, that is very weird to me, I have a case international 8830 and the diesel is up by the cab to but how much older is that then this Heston, Deere is the way to go
Times have changed since logging many a hr in the NH1495. I thinks the Massey is a very specific use machine to create a very high end specialty hay...something Wes has no interest in doing. Wes needs capacity speed and yes very valid points on fire especially mowing dry hay or hay gone to seed...dirty dirty stuff. For Wes the Massey does not even come close to his needs but then again it is not designed for his needs ..end of story
As a trucker, I can tell you for a fact, that I have stopped to take a mandated break, and the truck was in the middle of a "Exhaust Filter Regen", that filter housing was starting to glow..., Anyone with any knowledge of metal working knows, that Steel begins to glow at 900 degrees fahrenheit.... That thing is trying to scorch your skin from like a foot away.... And a regen takes like half a hour when it's doing a routine one..., longer for the more intrusive parked regeneration.... So, Be concerned, be VERY concerned....
Wes that's call the TwinMax Advanced conditioner option. You can get standard two roller if wanted. Hesston has been making SP windrowers longer than anyone (I believe). I think if you operated one you'd be "shocked" at how well they preform. They all have there design flaws. Read up: www.masseyferguson.us/content/dam/Brands/Massey%20Ferguson/US/Literature/hesston-by-massey-ferguson-wr-series-windrowers-brochure-english.pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/original
Well I dont!! hate on Massy Ferguson no way no how! but you do point out some very good points in this vid Wes But I would still! Take a Case IH over green anny day!
Wes love the videos but please do some research before making such a crappy review. Not a massey guy at all but dang do some research before throwing out such crap.
My mechanical design professor was big on he KISS idea. The first day in class, he preached keep it simple stupid! He may not have been the best teacher to learn book stuff from, but he was a practical man. He was an engineer for Ford in the 70s and 80s working in the pickup truck division. I keep that in mind every day at work. Keep it simple because my dumbass might (more likely will at some point) end up out on the floor to help get whatever machine going again.
Dave rowley a used machine I was looking at in UK was the same .many hours on engine not cutting .the hours working against acres cut was avarage 18.7hour we don't see windrowers in UK but how many acres an hour does Wes get from a machine like his v price paid for a big m. ps I don't think farmer all over the word are valued enough for the skills they have, the only thing we do is make food .sorry Wes for using your channel for questions watch every day!!! Dave
that massy you looked at is the vs basic one the double conditioner is a add on the one I ran was a 9870 mass with rear steer and air ride cab. I have a deer just like yours west and I think the headers aren't heavy duty vs the mass headers and that beer can only gets up to 180° we do 4000 acers a cutting and we 5 or 6 cutting
regen is not a part, its an operation, most likely it performs a passive regeneration without you knowing. I find it interesting the farm equipment is using after treatment. This after treatment in the trucking industry is a pain in the ass, I have more problems with nox sensors and the DEF SCR.
Yeah there is fancy computer controlled diff locks and auto engage front assist axles on newer tractors, But Belarus tractors had that years ago operated by mechanical type linkages and hydraulic valves. Everybody else just made the problems real expensive to fix and need a computer to find out why it didn't work one day. usually on the Belarus something fell off / went out of adjustment or the oil leaked out L.O.L.
super6954 Back when GM was bragging up their cylinder deactivation on the 5.3l in the Silverado/Sierra trucks, I kept chuckling about how IH had that idea in the 70s with the v8 diesel they used in the big trucks and the 1468/1568 tractors. They two systems don't work the same, but the general idea is.
super6954 Back when GM was bragging up their cylinder deactivation on the 5.3l in the Silverado/Sierra trucks, I kept chuckling about how IH had that idea in the 70s with the v8 diesel they used in the big trucks and the 1468/1568 tractors. They two systems don't work the same, but the general idea is.
Wes, I work for a full time custom farmer. We run 2 MF 9870's and 3 JD W260's. Both have their pros and cons, but when it comes down to it, both machines get the job done. I personally operate a W260 and i will tell you that when we are cutting 12ft tall hay grazer the MF 9870 is faster and burns less fuel.. We average 13000 acres per machine per year. If the MF's were cheap or junk then we wouldn't use them. The best machines hands down when it comes to reliability. Although, I do agree the cab could be bigger..
Joshua Chavez ss22szd$$*
The Massey will eat the Deere for lunch. We've ran them side by side and no comparison. Massey will use way less fuel too. Neighbors have a w235 and start fires couple times a year. Demo one Wes and you will see what I mean.
Nebraska Farmer I doubt that
I'll go head to head any day any crop conditions. Only thing Deere makes worth a shit is round balers. Hay eating sobs. Not gonna get in a pissing match though. Everyone has their own opinions.
That’s a Fella disc mower !!
It will cut circles around that John Deere !!!
Unlike what this clueless dude says, that Fella mower is 100 times easier to work on than what that Deere is !!!
Sunbelt Ag Expo in Moultrie, Georgia, we’re offsite prepping disc mowers for demonstrations the next day. The John Deere threw the entire cutter bar out from under the damn thing. John Deere hauls that piece of shit back up to an airplane hanger they use as a staging area for all of their equipment. They put it inside of the hanger and locked the doors to where nobody could see that piece of garbage. LOL!!! They never demoed or showed that damn thing for the entire show because of it falling all to pieces on them !!
He claimed to know so much about all of it, yet he didn’t even know what half of the stuff he was talking about even was !!!
Now as for as what I know about all it, well I’ll just say this much about it. Former Southeastern United States Service Manager for Vicon & PZ hay equipment lines. Former North American Service Manager for the Fella hay equipment line. Former Territory Sales Manager for Fella hay equipment in the states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma & Texas. Former Territory Sales Manager for Fella hay equipment in the states of North Carolina, South Carolina & North Georgia for a short time as well. Former Ford New Holland dealership Service Manager. Born & raised on a Dairy Farm in Southeastern Louisiana, alone with doing custom hay work for close to 30 years !!!
So yes, I know my way around a piece of farm equipment, especially a piece of hay equipment !!!
@@keithhylton4631 he is right. Our Massey wr9980 laps a Deere w260
I find this review interesting as he didn't actually use the MF in before reviewing it. Maybe he has since. I've had that same conditioning system in a MF 9635 swather since 2008. Haven't had a problem with the head at all. It's called a double conditioning system. It works fine. Does better on alfalfa then a single. They do offer a single conditioner also. That swather is a 9860. Which means it isn't all that powerful. Its the smaller one since it has the smaller head. The 9870 has a much larger engine and runs a 16 foot head. The tires are fine. Unless you are on hillsides I guess. So get different tires when buying. I can't knock the JD swather since I've never driven one. I'm sure they are fine. I wouldn't like the conditioner he has in the JD. I don't know the price of either, but as everyone knows Green paint usually means more money. But here they are very competitive on swather prices as MF has the market.
I’ve driven a Deere her in Idaho as a demo and i was disappointed. I could only cut at like 8 mph and the windrows were clumpy. We have 4 wr9980 swathers and they can cut up to 18 mph and the windrows are smooth. I wish he would have tried that Massey before being so negative about it
How can you review something without actually using it? Most of your review focuses on safety concerns rather than whether the machine is any good or not. I appreciate what you're saying, but really, has one of these ever gone up in flames?
Well, that fine video didn't sell me on the JD. You gave your opinion and there is nothing wrong
with that. They way you gave it pretty much made this worthless as a review. Unless you have
operated both machines without bias and then can show how one performed better than the
other, can provide maintenance records for both machines, have at least looked at the manual
to see how difficult the machine is to repair, this is just an opinion piece and personal preference.
Again, there is nothing wrong with that, however please don't expect me to share your sentiments.
I chose to watch the video and I wish that I had not. It wasted 19 minutes of my life for what
I thought was a review all because you assume things about a machine that you have never even
used. Incidentally, Heston was making mowers like that long before JD got in that business.
How much do u spend on tires for your equipment Wes if u don't mind me asking and do u stock pile or just buy when u need them ?
The twin max conditioner system, (the one with the 5 rollers), makes the most difference for us in alfalfa usually baling 3-4 days after cutting. We have run massey's/hesston's for roughly the last 15 years. The reliability of the bearings on the conditioner rolls much better than previous models. The tensioning system on the conditioner rolls is ran hydraulically. It's easy to change using the valve and rocker switch reading the pressure on the gauge. The MF 9860 is not the largest model in the lineup and they come with 16' headers as well. The fan is a reversing fan to blow off chaff that can accumulate on the rear of the machine. I have ran the W260 with 500R header as well as a 260 norower. For "our application" the Massey works best for us as our market is export alfalfa and timothy. Massey is coming out with a new machine next year which will be a larger scale tractor but probably the header won't change much as it works well. With the MF 9870 rated at 245 hp, I see them bumping that up to 260 ish to keep up with competition and unfortunately it takes power to turn the extra rolls.
I'm curious if the steel on steel rollers are too aggressive in alfalfa? Rubber rolls seem to be the norm for that.
We have the steel on steel rollers on our Massey's with the double conditioning system. Our operation, as far as hay goes, is usually 50/50 alfalfa and timothy for export. The steel on steel rollers can be too aggressive on the alfalfa if not set up properly. The tensioning system on the rollers is controlled hydraulically and is simple only taking seconds to adjust. You have more of and advantage, dry down wise, with this system more in alfalfa than grasses. the steel rollers compared to the rubber rollers is mostly user preference, but the steel rollers will last longer.
Cool man, thanks for the reply.
complexity is the enemy of reliability .
very true
Steel on steel is pretty agressive... would probably dry alfalfa fast but yea that would be fun working on one of those if a roll broke.
Would be far too aggressive for alfalfa, you'd want rubber rolls for that. I really don't know what you'd use the steel on steel for flails are typically good for hay.
not for our alfalfa lol... most of it is to coarse anyway
I agree. Also the way that DEF tank is positioned looks like an afterthought. Although they do seem like quite different machines, with the heston being quite a bit smaller and having the conditioning rolls.
the DEF systems don't get nearly as hot as the exhaust filters do. i can still touch the can on my tractor after running it hard. its cooler than the exhaust pipes themselves. not much of a fire risk there.
*Yep this machine is like a poorly thought out up scaled Sears riding lawn tractor and you are so right about those diesel particulate systems. When it goes in to re-generation mode parts of the system can reach 900 degrees CENTIGRADE which as you pointed out is way to hot to be that close to plastic tanks of flammable fluids. I would really like to know how many of these machines have mysteriously caught fire while working out in the field.*
hmm still I don't see a good airflow in that tractor. Can't you add a Fan like below or on the side to suck out the air from under the hood? Or does it stay cool enough under the JD hood ? IS that DEF Exhaust injector area maybe glass packed? It looks way to big for me just to be a normal DEF injection system.
OLF you do realise the engine in that massey has ad blue in it and it isnt a DPF is shoots adblue in there not fuel so it doesnt get as hot
hey Wes I run a Hesston 8550 with a 15' disc header, yes the the windrower is 16 years old only has 23,500 acres on it, things break, I was considering getting into one of these newer units. I'm not a fan of the double rolls, that's silly, but they definitely could re-enginer where that emissions crap goes .
do you burn pine in your wood stove
You make some valid points onelonelyfarmer but we run 3 Massey wind rowers and we would take them over a John Deere since they condition the Alfalfa and Timothy more. That Massey is different than ours our def tank isn't off the side like that one is. We also put ours through some pretty ruff terrain and they hold out great. Drive the price of equipment before you pick it apart we have demo New holland and John Deere and the Massey have always came on top of our list. But every brand has their downfall.
wes sprry bud id have to buy the massey over the deere just because massey is the better dealer. and we have 3 agco cutters and they work well and have been tough as hel[.
just for future reference the massey ferguson windrower does not have a particulate filter but it does have scr.
Do we know if the radiator cooling fan is a pusher rather than pulling air through the radiator, , or/also does it "reverse" rotation intermittently to "clean" the chaff off of the surfaces that it cools? if the fan is driven electrically or hydraulically, that would be relatively "simple" ..
I have no dog in the discussion, just trying to understand the known unknowns : - )
first of all it is a small one, 9870 is the big one, it happens to be a twin max with extra rolls. that thing will out cut any John Deere. I had a John Deere, couldn't get rid if it fast enough. I like ya but you really don't know what your talking about. by the way, the fan is hydraulic and reverses on its own and blows out the radiator.
if ur doing alfalfa, you need good conditioning. out here in the west Massey's are very popular. can't go wrong with a Deere also. I don't think their as bad as you think tho, just have to get one out in a field
jeff overton My cousin has roughly 200 acres of alfalfa hay and his 1431 New holland double rolled conditioning system does just fine. I agree with Wes here. Way to much going on there.
@@sstroh08 for high quality alfalfa double roll crimpers beat flail conditioners, hesstons 4 crimpers beat both styles in alfalfa, i have new holland double roller would prefer hesston crimpers if i was still putting up a lot of alfalfa
@@ccclc6159 Yeah the flails wreak the alfalfa I agree. I've never used a Hesston interesting.
I have a 4890 JD windrower. Came from a dairy farm in Arizona in 2005. It has several thousands of hours on it and still going strong!!
would you ever consider a krone big m
i like the gleaner combine right behind you at 16:22 looks like a s96 or 97
Wes I think your 100 percent correct on this thing don't have might at equipment but you pointed out some very obvious errors on that Massey I have mostly case ih stuff here except a JD planter that I'd never trade for a red one
How much newer is the jd compared to your case
I learnt the lesson of chaff build up yesterday. the day after using a front mounted flail topper I was stirring slurry, stationary tractor, revs flat out. next thing I know smoke is pouring out from under the cab steps, right next to the DEF system
Whe have the same massey ferguson and have never problems with that machine💪
Did you pick up the cutterbar for the Gehl?
Sjors Nijsen yup
good video again wes as always, is it me or do all the panels sound very cheap thin tin, perhaps there using bean cans
Very good points. When are the design guys going to get some farmer experience in the design room with them. I am fine with the head as that is an optional head but that engine and Hydralics compartment compared to Deere's is crazy.
Congrats on 80,000 Wes!
those conditioner rolls are great for heavy alfalfa with its thick stems. They like them here in Nevada. Look at a Macdon.
Active regen's yield temps of around 1000 degrees. Passive regen's can get even hotter. Active is a stationary induced regen's. Passive is when your out moving. Idle time can load the DOC and DPF and it will regen's more often or face plug on you.
some great advice there Wes! Its goos to have someone with experience break shit down...who knows u might save a life by the video..who knows.maybe not...but the cons out weigh the pros in the particular instance...great video
My Dad ran Massey for years and we never had any issues. That being said, he would also say that Massey was built to do one job where John Deere was built to take on many different jobs. quite a bit of truth in that.
I like your opinions about the beer can they should of thought about it more when they were building the engine compartment
I agree with you about needless complexity. We live in a world where everyone seems to need their toaster to have WiFi. Having said that, I get the sense you'd already made up your mind to *not* like this machine before you ever looked at it.
I think you should do a review on a Mac Don swather and see what you think, they are a pretty simple machine inside and out.
those are some very valid points, and while to an extent you may be a bit biased with you not really needing the rolls that much for your uses, you have some great points, but I do place part of the blame on the EPA for regulating the shit out of all this stuff forcing them to add all these fire hazards to everything and as someone said, if this was early in their stages of trying to integrate that crap into their design.....
Alot of the problems you find are just differences in the spec of the machine, are they not? There is a 240hp model, 16ft head is available, tyres can be changed. it would be interesting to see the price comparison.
'I don't want to talk badly about it'....that's all you did. A few times it seemed like you were lookin' for things to dislike instead of just giving us a review of the machine, good or bad.
Keith Brettell when did he go looking for something bad? He's basing his opinion on the equipment he owns/owned, experience, and his field conditions. He liked the cutter head minus the conditioning rollers (he might change his mind if it was explained how they work and thought the suspension was a little weak but the design was interesting). All the other things are valid issues. When you are dealing with dry hay or fuel/hydraulics and it lands on that 1000 deg SCR its a big fire hazard. Also the alt and battery near that heat will significantly reduce their expected life. Cab was small and comfort /ergonomics are important when you spend 12-16 hrs in the machine a day. He also said that of you did alfalfa it will probably be a great machine.
Good review Wes. Can't argue one bit.
Best thing about those Masseys is the vcool system on the back. Hydraulic drivin fan that reverses every 15 mins. No matter how bad the conditions it doesn’t overheat.
Like the flare conditioner, used a John Deere 7' 10" mover conditioner for years. It's a toy compared to what you use! Never had any problem with it. Know your busy, I'm looking at getting a 7210 or a 7410 which has gave you the best service.
you should look at the macdon bi directional sp go a good speed down the road and are easy to work on i worked at a dealer for them up here in canada and i liked working on the macdon products better then and this else
lol What's shocking about a JD guy hating on a Massey? That's pretty much how it's been as long as I can remember no? Honestly, your impressions of the machine seem fair to me, I really have no horse in the race, we would never be able to buy a SP Windrower of any brand anyway we don't farm the amount of ground required to ever justify it. There is a couple things I am curious about. 1, was this machine designed pre-emissions and then retrofitted with the emissions equipment later on as an afterthought? That would explain the foolish placement of the DPF or whatever it is. 2, What is the price of a machine like this in comparison to an equal sized JD/NH/Case etc. and is your JD even a fair comparison for a machine of this size? All in all, thanks for the quick review on it, I didn't really see or hear anything that was off base.
Mac102004 Farms he's not hating massy just giving his opinion
keith hylton cool
Mac102004 Farms they are all about the same amount I personally prefer Deere because we have had 0 problems with it
Couple years late. The reason that the "dpf" is where it's at is that it's not a dpf. It's a scr system, they don't use a heat cycle.
@@mrsmith2876 yeah I remember someone commenting that when the video was a bit more “fresh” I guess lol. Makes perfect sense to me. 👍
Most people look at the price tag and try to save money but really what if you had a fire on one,,, is 30k worth the trip to the burn center.... Thanks Wes for pointing out the small details that most overlook when it comes to safety..........
I'm a Mack and Volvo dealer tech and when we do force regens on trucks it's around 900 degrees inside dpf
I'm surprised you didn't buy one of those kroan? Cutters, it's 13 meters wide when it's field ready and folds up to 3 meters wide for highway use
Have you looked at a mac don speed rower
Wes just to let you know New Holland doesn't use a DPF filter which builds the most heat in the exhaust system, they only use a SCR (DEF) system for emissions. A DPF filter will get up to over 1200F because there is a carbon filter inside that slows the exhaust speed compressing the gasses and increases temperature also when it goes into regen mode it will get even hotter, the SCR system doesn't have that restrictive filter and will not get near as hot, plus as the DEF is injected it actually cools the exhaust slightly.
Hey im a round bale guy can you explain your reasons for using big sqare bales wats the benifit of then to round bales...can you just share your vieus on round bales plese?
Jan Petrevčič higher density, non stop baling (although non stop round balers are now about), more efficient stacking and transporting.
No offense to OLF, but as a farmer I got nothing useful out of this review, only biased opinions and assumptions. Just like some 15 year old kid kicking the tires.
I wonder if you have ever run any of this equipment?
Dry hay is almost like gasoline. We lucked up back n the day when my baler caught fire from a bearing failure. The flames were contained in the chain area and we had a couple of gallons of drinking water on the truck. The water and pulling flames off with gloves saved the harvest and the baler. All of us worked together to contain the flames as we worked. I was pretty scared. LOL
It's a good thing your opinion don't mean shit.
Waiting for the BigM test drive!
Kinda of hard to do a review without actually using the product. However, your preview is pretty spot on. Would be interesting to see it in action.
We have 2 massey tractors on the farm . They do pretty well. Front end's on the things break like crazy and leak oil a lot. To each there own every brand has there problems and people like what they like.
"I'm into simplicity" as he drives a complicated POS ford
lol how are fords complicated
Ever consider mounting fire extinguishers on your machines? Or do you already?
Marc Moseley Krone baler has a large fire extinguisher mounted on the left front of the frame near the flywheel and air cleaner.
Ah, ok. Honestly, not trying to be an armchair warrior or anything, but as I work in fire protection, it seems like good sense to spend $50 on an ABC can to potentially save a $50k - $150k piece of machinery. I'm actually kind of surprised some of the bigger pieces don't come from the factory with an automatic vehicle extinguishing system already on board.
That conditioning setup would work great for sudangrass though.
WOW, that is very weird to me, I have a case international 8830 and the diesel is up by the cab to but how much older is that then this Heston, Deere is the way to go
Times have changed since logging many a hr in the NH1495. I thinks the Massey is a very specific use machine to create a very high end specialty hay...something Wes has no interest in doing. Wes needs capacity speed and yes very valid points on fire especially mowing dry hay or hay gone to seed...dirty dirty stuff.
For Wes the Massey does not even come close to his needs but then again it is not designed for his needs ..end of story
I recommend a wide angle lens
I got that same model of swather all they like to do is throw codes. And the damn gps never wants to work
As a trucker, I can tell you for a fact, that I have stopped to take a mandated break, and the truck was in the middle of a "Exhaust Filter Regen", that filter housing was starting to glow..., Anyone with any knowledge of metal working knows, that Steel begins to glow at 900 degrees fahrenheit.... That thing is trying to scorch your skin from like a foot away.... And a regen takes like half a hour when it's doing a routine one..., longer for the more intrusive parked regeneration.... So, Be concerned, be VERY concerned....
the previous john deere choppers had their diesel tanks up top i don't know about the new 8000 serie
Wes that's call the TwinMax Advanced conditioner option. You can get standard two roller if wanted. Hesston has been making SP windrowers longer than anyone (I believe). I think if you operated one you'd be "shocked" at how well they preform. They all have there design flaws. Read up: www.masseyferguson.us/content/dam/Brands/Massey%20Ferguson/US/Literature/hesston-by-massey-ferguson-wr-series-windrowers-brochure-english.pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/original
Well I dont!! hate on Massy Ferguson no way no how! but you do point out some very good points in this vid Wes But I would still! Take a Case IH over green anny day!
hmmm,. wonder what B&H thinks of a guy video taping on their property and their equipment
Wes love the videos but please do some research before making such a crappy review. Not a massey guy at all but dang do some research before throwing out such crap.
My mechanical design professor was big on he KISS idea. The first day in class, he preached keep it simple stupid! He may not have been the best teacher to learn book stuff from, but he was a practical man. He was an engineer for Ford in the 70s and 80s working in the pickup truck division. I keep that in mind every day at work. Keep it simple because my dumbass might (more likely will at some point) end up out on the floor to help get whatever machine going again.
What do you do Wes if you get sold machines that are dangerous? I would love to see you do a video on that subject?
Price difference???? Not everyone can afford a Cadillac!!!!
yeah but I rather spend more money on a john deer than have to buy a new massy every year cus they burn up after each year.
tom holmes would you rather buy something that lasts or something that you are working on and buying parts for all the time. just asking!
Then buy a used cadillac!, this thing is like the poulan version of windrowers
If I were Wes mowing the amount of hay he does I'd rather buy a John Deere with money, not a Massey Ferguson with your life.
Exactly. Id rather get a used JD than one of these brand new masseys
Why don't you have a 10ft trail disc mower for the tractor.
Dave rowley a used machine I was looking at in UK was the same .many hours on engine not cutting .the hours working against acres cut was avarage 18.7hour we don't see windrowers in UK but how many acres an hour does Wes get from a machine like his v price paid for a big m. ps I don't think farmer all over the word are valued enough for the skills they have, the only thing we do is make food .sorry Wes for using your channel for questions watch every day!!! Dave
Thanks for a great video :-)
that massy you looked at is the vs basic one the double conditioner is a add on the one I ran was a 9870 mass with rear steer and air ride cab. I have a deer just like yours west and I think the headers aren't heavy duty vs the mass headers and that beer can only gets up to 180° we do 4000 acers a cutting and we 5 or 6 cutting
I often wonder why big farm equipment doesn't have ansul fire suppression systems.
this machine looks very small like it could blow over with heavy wind thanks for showing wes
MF designed to produce a finer end product, hence more moving parts.
regen is not a part, its an operation, most likely it performs a passive regeneration without you knowing. I find it interesting the farm equipment is using after treatment. This after treatment in the trucking industry is a pain in the ass, I have more problems with nox sensors and the DEF SCR.
Interesting review West, I should keep the JD
The suspension on the John Deere was an Allis Chalmers patent 50 years ago
RJ 1999 funny how that happens. It's across the board though. Even the stuff that crosses into the automotive world humors me some days.
Yeah there is fancy computer controlled diff locks and auto engage front assist axles on newer tractors, But Belarus tractors had that years ago operated by mechanical type linkages and hydraulic valves. Everybody else just made the problems real expensive to fix and need a computer to find out why it didn't work one day. usually on the Belarus something fell off / went out of adjustment or the oil leaked out L.O.L.
super6954 Back when GM was bragging up their cylinder deactivation on the 5.3l in the Silverado/Sierra trucks, I kept chuckling about how IH had that idea in the 70s with the v8 diesel they used in the big trucks and the 1468/1568 tractors. They two systems don't work the same, but the general idea is.
super6954 Back when GM was bragging up their cylinder deactivation on the 5.3l in the Silverado/Sierra trucks, I kept chuckling about how IH had that idea in the 70s with the v8 diesel they used in the big trucks and the 1468/1568 tractors. They two systems don't work the same, but the general idea is.
I know this is old, but back in the 70's GM introduced a Cadillac motor that would disable up to 4 of 8 cylinders while cruising.
That Regeneration runs about 700° F to 1200°F Good by wires.
Have you looked at a macdon before?
I think they need a couple more crusher rolls..
LOL
Wes are you still looking at the Krone mower or is the John Deere just better
He said recently that it would not be economical for him to get the krone unless he picked up significantly more ground.
the jd does look like a better design, does deere allow you to do any of your own maintenance?
I feel like you'd go through batteries a lot with that
Damn! You sure keep that engine clean.
fair thing on the heat but do the MF engine get so hot ad JD
have you looked at a challenger
Can someone put a payable hay load on a rig..@ 2.38...th-cam.com/video/y7n013_tTXQ/w-d-xo.html
I remember that video when it went up
Can you DEF delete it???
That roller conditioner system looks like one liter knot going through it would wipe it out.
Imagine what massive damage can cause a very hard rock or a piece of steel going through that Hesston's conditioning system.
I am shocked you didn't get the autogreaser on your John Deere