Also think about how much wasted area is the ocean floor, that's over 70% of the whole world. The solution? You guessed it, solar panels, all over the ocean floor!
Engineers: "Here's a high efficiency mono-crystalline solar panel to produce power from the sun. Although very stable and developed mounting systems have been developed, care must still be taken with them as they are fragile and sensitive to dust and shock." Politicians: "Let's pave the streets with them"
I JUST HAD THE MOST AMAZING IDEA EVER: We have so many square kilometers of rooftops in the world, so let's build roadways on top of buildings and houses!
The best thing is, although it looks like a roadway, we dont connect it to actual roads, So we dont have to put layers of grime and dirt on top to protect them from anything. It will be fabulous.
I'm sure that French politician has received many "gifts" that is installing it. Politicians don't push out projects if they aren't getting something out of it.
+Juggernautdemon Colas is the same company that own the biggest french television network and we have presidential election next year. What a lucky coincidence!
THANK YOU! I'm French and that's the first thing I thought when I read about it. And then I when on a lengthy rant on how we should leave the tech related decisions to tech savvy people, that no one read, and then I felt a little bit better. :D
And it's one freaking thousand kilometers no less. When you do something really stupid, you might as well go all the way, I guess. But it's OK, it's only tax payer's money.
+mrsabidji Then go to your local politician, show them the calculations, or possibly even Dave's videos, if they understand English, and try to convince them that they don't try to build this ludicrous project.
+Seegal Galguntijak the problem is that our politics don't care ( I'm also French ) colas is a huge company with gov contract, if they say it works, it's enough. Though, I just watched the colas vid and they seem to imply that the main idea is to mainly power public infrastructure such as lighting, hard to reach areas, and the like, so they might actually don't really care that much about efficiency.. Though if their goal is public lighting, that would mean storage systems on top of the wiring and conversion, and woul probably reduce efficiency by that much more.
+Seegal Galguntijak Yeah, that would probably work if it weren't for that big juicy contract with Colas. :) I get the feeling that my opinion (or facts, for that matter) is not going to have much of an impact there.
mrsabidji Then maybe you could raise some stink about in in social media, until it's grown big enough so that traditional media can't ignore it any more, and see that the public opinion shifts, because you told enough people who tell enough other people and so on.
My local power company is doing that. You get to have the power generated go against your bill for 3 years and then you get no benefit. And they own the panels.
+bdot02 Nvm it's $30/month for 20 years ($7200). And at the end of the 20 years they come and take it away for free. Seems like a decent deal but I don't know much about how much you can make off of solar.
A local company did that around our area, installed solar panels for free then linked them to the power grid so that whatever power you don't use is sent to the grid, thus recovering the installation costs. The panels have been up for around 5 years & I haven't seen anyone maintaining them. I live opposite a house with them so would notice anyone on the roof.
+Son of a Zombie So once we have melted all the snow and ice, powered all the cars (all electric by then) we would still have ~200 PWh of "stupid-energy" (stupid is source) left... What would we ever do with that? :p
+MrDoverfield I don't know if this is stupidity so much as "I have friends at [company] and can simultaneously funnel a ton of money from government to private industry and appear like I'm doing a great job!" I doubt anyone actually cares if it works or not. It's not stupid in a grand scheme sort of way, it's actually a really clever plot to make money, it's just shady as hell and bad for the rest of us.
When will they ever learn... I guess no one has thought of the energy cost and pollution caused by the gathreing of the materials and assembly of the panels. Early LED lamps that used existing LEDs of the time (many many through-hole 5mm LEDs) had the same problem: Assembly of the LEDs from metal, lots of resin, the LED die etc, manufacture of the PCB, getting wave-soldered with huge amounts of energy and tin wasted etc. etc.) and the result was low, crap light By the way, TH-cam is great isn't it? Ranting about something - just telling the truth, reaching a huge audience filling multiple giant stadiums and even getting paid for it.
+nrdesign1991 Usual case of fuckin'idiots in charge who have NO clue, making stupid decisions because they've listened to some smarmy suit and tied marketing exec, and his dishonest bullshit story. Drives me bleedin' nuts. Tools. All that work effort and CASH wasted. And then they'll turn round and say there's no money, for some decent sensible scheme.
+flahr1 Ive got a new patent. Solar caves. Think off all the surface area inside a cave, not only do you have the floor, but you have the ceiling TOO. Thats twice as many solar panels, twice the output per meter!
+ElGatoLoco698 Exactly. Rooftop and large-scale ground installations take 5~10+ years to pay back the investment, and they enjoy very low maintenance costs. Factor in the 6~10x WattWays installation expenses and you're looking at 30++ years to generate payback electricity. How likely is it that these things will last 3 years (Feh! 3 months sounds more likely!), much less 30++ YEARS without requiring significant maintenance? (As in "complete replacement.") It's clearly impossible. No road surface lasts 30 years, much less a freaking solar road surface. No bank on Earth will finance this, but unfortunately a few governments might. :(
+ElGatoLoco698 Sure they'll get a return on investment. It's the government that's paying for it. Everyone involved will make a profit except the taxpayer. And the best is that when the panels get dirty (i.e. 30 seconds after they're installed), the government will spend another billion to hire people to scrub them up, and then the unemployment crisis will be averted. Keynes would be so proud.
If the existing roads get torn up by traffic with heavy breaking and acceleration and turning producing a sideways pull on the surface (especially with multi axle trucks where some wheels don't turn when the trucks turn they just slide)on a regular basis. then these delicate solar panels will be so much mush in no time. This has to be another case of political corruption using their position to make a name for themselves and get a nice little back hander to boot, although I probably shouldn't print the name I would have for them. The only way to finish this to actually have someone lay this stuff and give it the real test. Only then will people wake up and smell the coffee.
+Michael Hawthorne It will never be completed, they are just using it to get votes. They will make a start but as soon as they get to where they want to be it will be shelved.
+Michael Hawthorne Would be interesting to see the numbers for the energy saved in fuel cost by refurbishing the worn down road network.. Since they could probably fix 10 to a 1000 times the road, that would be "upgraded" by making it a solar road.
+EEVblog thanks for covering the argument, I was one of those who posted this on your Facebook page and I'm pleased to see that you listen to your community, well done!
Here's the biggest issue with solar roadways: why do they have to be roadways? Why can't we just have them near the roads? Why can't we have them *over* bike trails? Why can't we have them *above* parking lots?
+TheTundraTerror Agreed. Given the efficiency and cost issues with turning the road itself into solar panels, I think it makes much more sense to place higher efficiency panels in the median or sides of the roads. I think another possibly good idea would be to place them alongside rail-road tracks and under HV lines where they have already clear-cut the path anyway... plus with putting them under the HV lines there is the added benefit of immediate access to the grid.
+jix177 Yea, a little too much, it gets kinda tiresome after awhile. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what he's saying, and I'm a fan of his channel, but his obnoxiousness is grating. Could you imagine working with this man, day after day, my head hurts just thinking about it.
Thought about it even more. The following costs are bundled into the SOLAR ROAD figures: 1. Building and maintaining cell phone towers 2. Building and maintaining power lines 3. Building and maintaining Urban WiFi nodes 4. Building and maintaining Fire/police trunked radio dispatching networks 5. Building and maintaining Roads themselves 6. Building and maintaining Residential waste elimination system (sewers) All of these accounting expenses would rolled into one financial expense for a city, country, or global infrastructure. The problem comes when you have to dig up the existing infrastructure and rebuild. ULTIMATELY, your point about "driving on a solar panel" trumps all defense of this initiative. It probably will not work as you say.
+navyman4 sewage: how do solar panels on the surface help mitigate or improve sewage? Electrical distribution: you still need HV cables overhead or that will be too expensive so power lines, you'd still need em Cell tower / Urban WiFi / Emergency dispatching networks: you need networking infrastructure to back that up, and that would only compound the cost, basically, there are better ways to do all these things, so why have 1 thing that tries to do all of them and fall short.
SpeedrunnerG55 That side tunnel...yeah...they are thinking of expanding it. Much of the TELECOM backbone is underground already. Cell towers wouldn't be needed. Every 50ft there could be transmitter/receivers that do the work of cell towers. Of course a TH-cam comment isn't sufficient to explain the enormous engineering effort; however, those general points should answer your question as best as allowed in short space.
SpeedrunnerG55 Also, I'm confused about your HV comment. I was in the Navy for 8yrs. Why would you need it overhead? We had it running through the ship just fine. Maybe I'm uneducated on this. Please explain.
when i said HV i dont mean residential power that is typically 240V i meant the cables above that that are several KV (110KV) its possible but very expensive to insulate.
SpeedrunnerG55 Oh I see. Well, seems like you are more educated on Extremely HV so yeah. This is likely impractical as he says. The kicker though is the very concept of building solar panels that are blocked by traffic itself. Inherently bad concept!
One of my facebook friends posted that Solar Freakin' Roadways promotional video one day. I linked to your vid that explained the problems with them and he defriended me. Thank you Dave, for helping to remove so much negativity from my life. :)
What happens when the panels stop working? A team of engineers comes out and blocks traffic while they dig these things up and replace them. So now you have something that no longer functions as a solar panel or a road. We should be simplifying things, not adding unnecessary complexity. Murphy will get ya every time
+Martin T it is designed to work a very long time. it s not normal solar panels but special for road , it resists to trucks ! It is glued. Made with composite materials very resistant. A city hall can make a lot of money with solar road .
stephen10 Roads are designed to work a long time too, yet they fail. Ever driven over a pot hole? Normal roads are also made from composite materials, yet they fail under repeated, heavy loads. Adding this on top won't make the road any better. It's another thing to fail, and it will fail. Then the road is blocked off so traffic jams occur. What's wrong with putting the panels on rooftops?
+stephen10 "This company Colas take a risk" No. Their only risk is that they will not milk some cash from government cow if they fail. The only efford they make is putting some shitty animations and paying people "in charge" to get this project running.
I have always imagined that solar roadways would be a thing some day. But, that would be when they became more cost-effective than asphalt or concrete. We need multiple breakthroughs before we are at that point.
+Haas You mean like hydro-electric? Where the effect of gravity waves on water causes it to move in the direction of the wave generator... and where we place turbines in the way to convert that linear movement into rotational force?
+JimmyDB - No, I want the real deal. A generator powered by Gravity waves. ;) Don't ask why, caus it will be awesome! @david be a champ and do the calculations :) The plan is to use a piezoelectric material that stretches and generates electrons. We should make it as strong as possible because it will deform no matter how strong it is.
+Superterabyt e You don't even have to be an 'expert.' Anyone with a lick of common sense and a few years of science-focused edufication should be able to critique this nonsense.
+Superterabyt e He'd go dumb. Politics is meant for retards. Only retards with no school end up at the top. Have you seen the plagiarism scandals in Europe?
Why on roads thought? Is it the sci-fi aspect that's so appealing? I think adding panels to every roof in the area would be better than streets. Has nobody mentioned the fact that cars will be also blocking light as well? Solar Roads are a terrible idea. It's a sci-fi pipe dream.
yes you're right, if They just install the same number of panel on roof top it wil greatly increase the efficiency. i know the shading effects on solar panel and how slowly mppt of the micro inverter decrease the efficiency when even a small car or bike will make it worse in energy output .
What is this new fascination of putting solar panels UNDERNEATH stuff? Sure it's different, but do they understand why putting them ON TOP of things has been the norm for so long?
Would it be possible to harness energy created by cars travelling on roadways much like the Mall of America harnesses the energy of people to heat itself? If so, I'd love to see a video on guesstimations of what kind of energy that could produce, some of the difficulties in implementation, etc. Great video!
What about solar road shades? Solar panel corridors over the roadway, which do essentially the same thing, require less maintenance, and could possibly increase safety by cutting down on glare, and decrease pollution because shaded cars don't need to run an AC as heavily during the summer? Anyone? Anyone? We can start a Kickstarter campaign tomorrow and become wildly rich!
Jean-Marc Chevalier The wind powered aircraft makes sense! I mean, you are moving through the air, so stick a big turbine on the front to harness that energy. Then, put that energy into turning the propeller, which pushes it forward, which generates wind, which powers the propeller...GENIUS! Someone, put someone on building a crowd funding campaign. We got money to scam...err...investments to earn...that's what I meant.
Here in Denmark we are talking about a bicycle road for about 20-30 km with solar panels covering parts of the road, and providing power for the lights at night through batteries. It's actually a pretty great idea, and should even be able to send something back to the grid, while being prestigious, pretty to look at and providing shade and cover for the bicyclist. The idea is to get more people to bike to work, it's gonna be in a pretty heavily traffic area, so we would (hopefully) also get less cars, when you could bike under a roof with lights during the night. I kinda like it, even if it would be a semi-failure, it's not the worst we could try to spend our money on. (We already have tons of solar arrays and wind turbines)
I will tell you why to do it. Because even if its not as efficient as it could be, it will point us in the right direction and you can gradually improve from there. Seeking perfection before even starting makes no sense.
+Jona Goldman The point is that with the same amount of money, you can make a least 6 times more energy (as Dave says) by installing the solar pannels on top of buildings or other things that are favorable for solar energy rather than putting them on the road, thus making more energy with less cost/material waste
I am no expert, but installing panels in private buildings is not as simple as it sounds. You need to sign contracts and install controllers for each building. It can take years. It's a lot of work. It is more realistic for a government to install one long zone of panels in something they control, like roads.
+Jona Goldman Germany has shown that it's easy to install solar on privat buildings with feed in tariffs. There are a lot of public buildings: schools, town halls, police stations, hospitals, there are a lot of commercial buildings. To put solar on roads makes no sense.
+Jona Goldman That is not an actual issue. doing solar roadways because you don't like to sign contracts basically amounts to trying to solve a lot of massive problems because you don't feel like solving a few tiny trivial ones. Also, " it will point us in the right direction and you can gradually improve from there" did you watch the video? Dave adresses that at 12:35... all this does is make green energy look bad.
Yeah but its even more impractical to put solar panels on roads, their gonna get covered up constantly by cars, and like guy in the video said, the efficiency is so horrible and it cost more. Also when a solar panel is flat it doesn't collect as much sun as if it were angled to the sun and tracking it. If you need directions to where your going you can use a map, buy a gps, or ask someone, or read the signs on the road. We don't need a solar roadway to do all this crazy shit for us when what we have already works.
MrGuano11 Same unusable amounts of energy and extremely high cost. A windmill somewhere else or few solar panels would be much more reasonable and cost effective
My 5 main concerns about this bullshit: 1. What if I am walking along, doodoodoodadoo, oh shit, I dropped my hammer! 2. Imagine falling off your bike while riding on a solar roadway... You might be fine but you just broke like 5 solar panels... 3. What if a tree falls or something like that? 4. I bet a lot of teenagers will just WANT to smack that road with a sledgehammer... I know I would 5. What if a car wreck happens? Tire marks all over the place, and possibly 8 broken solar panels... Basically, durability and rigidity is a huge issue.
+LazorVideos As an exemple, do you know what Epoxy, Polycarbonate, Nylon, Kevlar is ? Those chemicals can stop bullets ... Thanks God, french are not 60Millions teenagers with a sledgehammer and you brain.
+Tim Clo You could be right, but surely they can easily be damaged, even if they are made out of plastic alternatives to glass. But as Dave explained, plastic is soft and does not allow enough clarity to produce enough power. Plastic has low clarity as it is, but imagine the maintenance of replacing the panels annually because somebody fell off their bike and scratched it, which lowers the amount of light (Polycarbonate usually has a poor aperture of over 3.0, and scratches can make that even worse)
The cost results are in, and the results are stunning. According to Colas, it costs €17 to generate 1 kilowatt of energy, as opposed to €1.30 for a normal solar installation. That's OVER 13 TIMES THE COST FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF ENERGY!
My thought is technology, price and efficiency aren't the main issue here. The main issue is that the goal is to answer a problem we don't yet have: the lack of space. I am French, and in France we have so many roofs well oriented which don't have any solar panels. Developing a better grid or a smart grid, keeping the focus on the costs/will issue of conventional methods and developing ways to store energy seems to be way more important than this roads. And even with a lack of space, there is still better obvious solutions to get power from solar without using a dedicated footprint. But we don't loose a lot trying this on only 1km, maybe we can gets some data out of this, which can't be bad. I'm sorry for the companies which invest in it (well, they still can find buyers with commercial bullshit) but I'm still glad they tried ;)
Fantastic Dave. Great analysis. I'm a "greenie" and as liberal as they come, but even normal folks like me can clearly see the folly here as you've outlined. I LOVE this channel!
What about Solar Freaking Traintracks ? -Just plop em down between the tracks and we're good to go, loads of unused space, and the trains run on the tracks on between them so not as much wear and teac. Could someone help me get like *puts pinkie finger to side of the mouth * a mill. . . billion! dollarhs *hahahahahaa* to try it out ? That said, it would run into the same problems as a long distance energy transfers, and then there's scavangers who'd love to cut and sell the cables and shit even if one could figure out everything else. The best application I can think of would be in tandem with maglev/train/s/rail-system but those are really rare, japan and china only (?), but even that would have some special problems on it's own.
I would be interested to know how the calculations balance up once the cost of a traditional highway wearing course and sub-base have been factored in.
In Canada we get snow on the roads for aboutt 4 months of the year (where I live). On the roads we use gravel, sand, and salt and use heavy plows. Further it is not uncommon to see studded tires for additional traction. On some roads chains are used. How long would a panel last?
I'm impressed that they have panels that they can park a truck on and, presumably, they still work. The sort of durability will useful for rooftop systems in harsh weather environments. Roadways? What happens the first time a backhoe has to dig into it to fix a broken pipe?
Honestly the little two-cell modules at 2:32 look pretty nice. I work a lot with single lithium ion cells in my hobby and it's pretty hard to find solar arrays that peak around five volts, and self-crafted ones tend to be bulky and fragile. I'd spend $5-10 a pop on them.
I totally agree, except for one point: "It will be/might be/is complicated" That is not a good point. It never is, not for any argument. Not even close. We already have massively complicated infrastructures. We're actually pretty good, as a species, at dealing with complicated infrastructures. If there were a simpler alternative, that is one thing. But wiring up loads of non-roadway solar panels are just as complicated a problem as wiring up solar roadways. Again, I totally agree with you on everything else. I just really have a thing against anyone claiming that a system is "too complicated" when there really isn't an apparently simpler solution. EDIT: Specifically, I'm talking about where 12:50 or so when you said someone had to plan the system. There are other reasons why solar roadways are more complicated, that just isn't actually one of them.
I just figured that, in theory, solar roadways would have an output in the same way that normal solar panels do. In that sense, specifically installing them and wiring them into the grid is no more complicated than doing the same for commercial panels. Devils advocate, but not having to install a structure to support them would save in costs, from what I can tell. EDIT: By that I mean something to keep them off the ground and stable; as in you could put these "new" solar roadways on the old roadways. But that said, I have never read the "spec sheets" (if we could call it that), so I'm making a huge assumption. But you're totally right. Like I said, I agree with everything else. All of it. Maintenance is harder, it's less efficient, all that *much more important stuff* is so true!
+Christopher Pilcher Nope, sorry. Roads surfaces need drainage, so you need other channels dub specifically for the electronics and cabling. Trenches next to roads (that rip up footpaths and verges etc) are expensive. Commercial installations don't have these hassles.
+Christopher Pilcher How many low voltage power lines do you see running for 1-2km in a single stretch... Oh, wait, no we use high voltage cabling as the energy losses just in the cables become too high. You can't just dig a ditch and stick a telecoms cable in it. You need to invert and step it up, some serious insulation, some seriously thick copper then one also needs some power storage as solar has a basic issue with power storage, else that energy isn't available at night when it is most needed for house lights etc. 1000km of this, you got to be kidding, all the energy profit is gone just by the time the energy is transmitted anywhere. One can not just wire these things into a grid and be done with it.
I think there is something we are missing here and that is the availability of land. Here in Australia we've got plenty of space to set up commercial solar farms; but when you have places in Europe like Denmark and the Baltic States that are building out into the ocean where they can. This is pretty much the only reason I could see to implement these solar roadway solutions (apart from winning political brownie points in the short term). However I do not know enough about land cost and availability in Europe to do any more than just theory a possible practical reason why they are looking into this in Europe.
+EEVblog Hahaha...just messing with you. :) So they don't work economically. I hadn't seen your previous debunking but I was always skeptical. Thanks for breaking down the situation for us. I'm surprised you respond here so fast! I subscribed only a couple months ago but I have already greatly enjoyed your channel. Love to see your son getting in on the fun too! Legos were one of my favorite toys and are my own son's too! Keep up the great work!
What were the 2 first videos linked in description? They don't seem to exist anymore, just like the 12 months wattaway tests. Links are incomplete maybe.
Will you complement this video with the results from the kilometer of wattway solar roadway made by the French Ministry of Silly Walks? It could be interesting to see what the output is and what it means for their 1000km project.
I never really understood why anybody would think solar roads could be a good idea. You do not even need to do the calculations to compare it to rooftop installations. "Let's put solar panels on a surface where cars will regularly block out the sun. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea." I mean, it would even be better to put roofs with solar panels over the roads. Would cost a bit more to build (not even sure about that, since you would be able to use standard panels), but you would avoid a LOT of the problems. Plus, during the summer people would be able to drive in the shade, and during the winter, you would not have to remove snow from the roads :-)
You are using $ per watt produced to say that solar roadways cost 3x as much than commercial ground in a best case scenario, Then use that $ per Watt ratio and combine it with the fact that the solar roadways have half watt output than roof installation to double the ratio and end up at 6 times the cost per watt. Don't think that makes sense, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding something here
The ratio intended should be the cost per sq m which leads to 480ish €/m2 vs 220 €/m2 for solar panel... so just twice the price. but in line with other comments : what is the total lifecycle cost of a road square meter ? How does that compare with photovoltaic road square meter ?
I wonder if they've taken the cost of the annual strikes into account - when the French lorry drivers block the roads for a few days, set fire to the barricades and destroy the road surface.
You completely ignore the fact that the road otherwise would bring in 0 wh... My point being, yes they are not as effective as roof top solar arrays, but does that mean we should not investigate the idea?
Why bother investigating if it fundamentally doesn't make sense? There is a fixed amount to be spent on renewable energy, why spend it on inefficient and untested (so risky) technologies when you get so much more bang for buck elsewhere
+Tim You completely ignore the fact that Dave (and many others) have investigated what the results would be... (watch the vids where he even uses the optimistic values from the manufacturers or the video after that where the trial testing proves what Dave presented earlier) My point being, you don't have to install solar roadways to determine the installation and material costs and maximum energy output. The whole situation only gets WORSE with maintenance, damage and the brilliant idea of placing huge moving 'shade makers' over the panels.
Mark Robinson Again, short sighted. It does make sense, roads just lay there doing nothing, why couldn't they produce energy? > There is a fixed amount to be spent on renewable energy, why spend it on inefficient and untested There you go, untested! That's why we have to test it. Why should that budget *just* be spend on already proven concepts and not push the boundries of what is possible? How do you think we have gotten to the solar panels we have today? Did they just fall out of the sky?
JimmyDB - You completely ignore my point. How do you think we came to the current solar tech? By just sitting back and not invest and investigate in it? I'm sure the efficiency that we have today was right there when we made the first solar panel, right guys?
+Tim you are totally missing the point, there is no point in wasting money in new technology which is clearly not as good, and will never be as good, as what we already have. We can see efficiency and develop new technology without rolling it out on a massive scale! But in this instance it is extremely clear that solar roadways will never be as good as a traditional installation just due to practical reasons. Your point about roadways currently not generating electricity might be valid if we have no other space to put solar panels at all - but there are also rooftops not generating electricity currently, and putting the panels there is clearly better so why not do that instead?
Instead of using them for electricity for the grid, what about if they used the energy they generated for lighting the road, lane markings etc? Or is that still not feasible?
Well, the biggest issue is that roads might become obsolete in less than 10 years if hyperloop gets implemented in an open source fashion. One could of course place commercial solar panels on the top of hyperloop tunnels.
I have a question. What kind of maintenance does it require to run a solar powerplant? I heard that every couple of years (7 i think) you need to replace the old pannels with new ones. Is that true?
About that half efficiency - I hope you didn't forget about main difference between roads and roofs. On roof you can point panels in "ideal" angle to sun, on roads you simply can't.
In my area, the road generally has to be repaired every 1-3 years, after winter, there will be some damage, as well as chunks knocked out when the plows run through. The road also takes a beating due to large trucks regularly running through. Other than that, they also often need to dig the road up when ever they need to do maintenance of water, gas, electrical and data lines. Solar panels on a road used be vehicles will never last long enough to cover their own cost. The problem with governments handling this stuff, is the people who make these choices never think long term, they think only of what is good for their image right now. E.g., some local schools have ordered ipads for all of the students to use in class, after a round 2 years, most of them are not working, the remaining ones have a host of issues such as pressure marks on the screen from people pushing it too hard, scratches, and crap battery life because they are run all day. When I was doing student teaching, and wanted to use the tablets, the cooperating teacher recommended that I avoid them since they are too unreliable, and don't last long enough to get any work done. The principal got tricked into getting a ton of non serviceable tablets that ended up being junk after about 2 years.
+Razor2048 Exactly. Maintenance will be the final stake-in-the-heart. A typical asphalt road needs work every few years and a best-case rooftop solar install needs ~10 years to reach break even (with near-zero maintenance). Even if Wattways cost the same (much less 10x per watt), it would never pay for itself before wearing out and/or requiring wildly expensive repair.
It's a pretty idea but Dave just did a great job showing that it's just not practical. It makes a lot more sense for the gov't to promote and subsidize more rooftop installation and large scale plants.
I'm sold - I'm putting solar flooring in my apartment!
+Fran Blanche
Well, that's a given, you are so bright.
+Fran Blanche Should work a treat. And think of all the future generations you'll be saving! You're a new age environmental hero!
Imagine! You will safe so much money each time you turn the light on :)
Also think about how much wasted area is the ocean floor, that's over 70% of the whole world. The solution? You guessed it, solar panels, all over the ocean floor!
Engineers: "Here's a high efficiency mono-crystalline solar panel to produce power from the sun. Although very stable and developed mounting systems have been developed, care must still be taken with them as they are fragile and sensitive to dust and shock."
Politicians: "Let's pave the streets with them"
I JUST HAD THE MOST AMAZING IDEA EVER:
We have so many square kilometers of rooftops in the world, so let's build roadways on top of buildings and houses!
The best thing is, although it looks like a roadway, we dont connect it to actual roads, So we dont have to put layers of grime and dirt on top to protect them from anything. It will be fabulous.
I'm sure that French politician has received many "gifts" that is installing it. Politicians don't push out projects if they aren't getting something out of it.
I meant from the company that is installing it.
+Juggernautdemon Colas is the same company that own the biggest french television network and we have presidential election next year. What a lucky coincidence!
Merde!
+Afrotechmods Well put.
hi
+Afrotechmods I have a question, are you ElectroBOOM?
+Xano Trevisan Kothe afrotechmods cares about safety, eletroboom doesn't give shit about it.
+Mohamed Berrada You do know he actually knows what he is doing?
i live in the dutch town krommenie which tried the solarroad last year. and its broken allmost since it was installed
+FRANK PIETERSEN LOL!
+FRANK PIETERSEN
Mag je er nog wel over fietsen dan?
Thanks for posting this. I'm not surprised.
THANK YOU! I'm French and that's the first thing I thought when I read about it. And then I when on a lengthy rant on how we should leave the tech related decisions to tech savvy people, that no one read, and then I felt a little bit better. :D
And it's one freaking thousand kilometers no less. When you do something really stupid, you might as well go all the way, I guess.
But it's OK, it's only tax payer's money.
+mrsabidji Then go to your local politician, show them the calculations, or possibly even Dave's videos, if they understand English, and try to convince them that they don't try to build this ludicrous project.
+Seegal Galguntijak the problem is that our politics don't care ( I'm also French ) colas is a huge company with gov contract, if they say it works, it's enough. Though, I just watched the colas vid and they seem to imply that the main idea is to mainly power public infrastructure such as lighting, hard to reach areas, and the like, so they might actually don't really care that much about efficiency.. Though if their goal is public lighting, that would mean storage systems on top of the wiring and conversion, and woul probably reduce efficiency by that much more.
+Seegal Galguntijak Yeah, that would probably work if it weren't for that big juicy contract with Colas. :) I get the feeling that my opinion (or facts, for that matter) is not going to have much of an impact there.
mrsabidji Then maybe you could raise some stink about in in social media, until it's grown big enough so that traditional media can't ignore it any more, and see that the public opinion shifts, because you told enough people who tell enough other people and so on.
Why don't they offer just to put 1kwh on 1,000 houses free of charge, I am sure you would get more power.
My local power company is doing that. You get to have the power generated go against your bill for 3 years and then you get no benefit. And they own the panels.
+bdot02 Nvm it's $30/month for 20 years ($7200). And at the end of the 20 years they come and take it away for free. Seems like a decent deal but I don't know much about how much you can make off of solar.
A local company did that around our area, installed solar panels for free then linked them to the power grid so that whatever power you don't use is sent to the grid, thus recovering the installation costs.
The panels have been up for around 5 years & I haven't seen anyone maintaining them.
I live opposite a house with them so would notice anyone on the roof.
***** Yeah we do have a good deal here in Australia. If more country's could do the same thing it would make a big difference.
+DC Has to be done right though.. I dont see a point in turning farmland or forest into solar panels.. That just seems wasteful somehow.
If only we could harness energy from stupid ideas
we could use the energy to power the roadwayzz
+FDK it's called central banking
+Son of a Zombie So once we have melted all the snow and ice, powered all the cars (all electric by then) we would still have ~200 PWh of "stupid-energy" (stupid is source) left... What would we ever do with that? :p
+FDK Haha, then we would not have any energy issues ever again.
+Audrius Kliukas Actually then we would just be accelerating global warming... since all that energy will eventually end up as heat!
Stupidity never dies
+MrDoverfield the stupid do sometimes die, though XD
+redtails thats called the darwin awards :P
+MrDoverfield We only need to find a way to harness this endless resource as energy source.
SoarPilot Giant Hamster wheels :O
+MrDoverfield I don't know if this is stupidity so much as "I have friends at [company] and can simultaneously funnel a ton of money from government to private industry and appear like I'm doing a great job!" I doubt anyone actually cares if it works or not. It's not stupid in a grand scheme sort of way, it's actually a really clever plot to make money, it's just shady as hell and bad for the rest of us.
When will they ever learn... I guess no one has thought of the energy cost and pollution caused by the gathreing of the materials and assembly of the panels. Early LED lamps that used existing LEDs of the time (many many through-hole 5mm LEDs) had the same problem: Assembly of the LEDs from metal, lots of resin, the LED die etc, manufacture of the PCB, getting wave-soldered with huge amounts of energy and tin wasted etc. etc.) and the result was low, crap light
By the way, TH-cam is great isn't it? Ranting about something - just telling the truth, reaching a huge audience filling multiple giant stadiums and even getting paid for it.
+nrdesign1991 Very true, every video I make is like performing in front of a huge stadium audience!
+nrdesign1991
Usual case of fuckin'idiots in charge who have NO clue, making stupid decisions because they've listened to some smarmy suit and tied marketing exec, and his dishonest bullshit story.
Drives me bleedin' nuts. Tools. All that work effort and CASH wasted. And then they'll turn round and say there's no money, for some decent sensible scheme.
+simontay1984
They will just shrug their shoulders :)
+simontay1984 He wasn't speaking the language of smug so they won't understand it.
+InfernosReaper You surely mean brown nose.
let's build solar roads then cover them over with cars
+flahr1 Ive got a new patent. Solar caves. Think off all the surface area inside a cave, not only do you have the floor, but you have the ceiling TOO. Thats twice as many solar panels, twice the output per meter!
+Kakunapod Heard about this cave that gets a single beam of sunlight at dawn on the summer solstice.. That sounds perfect for it.
+Kakunapod this is bloody excellent. where do I send you all of my money to invest in this killer idea? I cannot possibly lose!
nope buid solar panels flip it front side to road and drive it over with a train
makes no sence? solar freakin roadways
+mattibboss Solar tunnels!
1,000 kilometers? Dear lord, that's gotta cost a billion dollars eh? They could never get a return on investment.
same with Donalds Trump's taj mahah casino
+ElGatoLoco698 Exactly. Rooftop and large-scale ground installations take 5~10+ years to pay back the investment, and they enjoy very low maintenance costs. Factor in the 6~10x WattWays installation expenses and you're looking at 30++ years to generate payback electricity. How likely is it that these things will last 3 years (Feh! 3 months sounds more likely!), much less 30++ YEARS without requiring significant maintenance? (As in "complete replacement.") It's clearly impossible. No road surface lasts 30 years, much less a freaking solar road surface. No bank on Earth will finance this, but unfortunately a few governments might. :(
+ElGatoLoco698 Sure they'll get a return on investment. It's the government that's paying for it. Everyone involved will make a profit except the taxpayer.
And the best is that when the panels get dirty (i.e. 30 seconds after they're installed), the government will spend another billion to hire people to scrub them up, and then the unemployment crisis will be averted. Keynes would be so proud.
+geonerd probaly best thing to maintenace these roads is just pavement over
+TM80 NotGoodWithNames
Heh! Pave over the mess and pretend it never happened!
thanks dave
If the existing roads get torn up by traffic with heavy breaking and acceleration and turning producing a sideways pull on the surface (especially with multi axle trucks where some wheels don't turn when the trucks turn they just slide)on a regular basis. then these delicate solar panels will be so much mush in no time.
This has to be another case of political corruption using their position to make a name for themselves and get a nice little back hander to boot, although I probably shouldn't print the name I would have for them.
The only way to finish this to actually have someone lay this stuff and give it the real test. Only then will people wake up and smell the coffee.
+Michael Hawthorne
It will never be completed, they are just using it to get votes. They will make a start but as soon as they get to where they want to be it will be shelved.
+Michael Hawthorne Would be interesting to see the numbers for the energy saved in fuel cost by refurbishing the worn down road network.. Since they could probably fix 10 to a 1000 times the road, that would be "upgraded" by making it a solar road.
+Michael Hawthorne She doesn't need a name for herself, I live in france and she's 'famous' enough with her position in the government.
+EEVblog thanks for covering the argument, I was one of those who posted this on your Facebook page and I'm pleased to see that you listen to your community, well done!
Here's the biggest issue with solar roadways: why do they have to be roadways? Why can't we just have them near the roads? Why can't we have them *over* bike trails? Why can't we have them *above* parking lots?
+TheTundraTerror Agreed. Given the efficiency and cost issues with turning the road itself into solar panels, I think it makes much more sense to place higher efficiency panels in the median or sides of the roads. I think another possibly good idea would be to place them alongside rail-road tracks and under HV lines where they have already clear-cut the path anyway... plus with putting them under the HV lines there is the added benefit of immediate access to the grid.
it is countryside, almost no cars, it is to reuse infrastructures instead of wasting space that could be used for agriculture/housing stuff
What they don't tell you is that they will be installing a Batteriser on each solar panel to improve it's efficiency to 800%
Sharing this. Thanks for the subtitles. My friends who are falling for this shit won't have the excuse of not speaking english.
I could feel Dave's blood pressure rising during the video!
+jix177 I'm watching in 480p and I can see the blood vessels on his forehead reaching burst pressure.
+jix177 I`m sure I have heard blood gushing few times!
+jix177 Yea, a little too much, it gets kinda tiresome after awhile. Don't get me wrong, I agree with what he's saying, and I'm a fan of his channel, but his obnoxiousness is grating. Could you imagine working with this man, day after day, my head hurts just thinking about it.
+jix177 one could probably power a lamp with that pressure :D
I love it when Dave gets all worked up at stupidity. Makes me feel better.
Absolutely spot on. I hope they watch your video and pay a minimal consultancy fee towards your channel for saving them millions.
I love solar roadways, they give the best videos on this Channel :D
I love these rants! Gotta love how simple to understand Dave makes his point. Good work! :)
Thought about it even more. The following costs are bundled into the SOLAR ROAD figures:
1. Building and maintaining cell phone towers
2. Building and maintaining power lines
3. Building and maintaining Urban WiFi nodes
4. Building and maintaining Fire/police trunked radio dispatching networks
5. Building and maintaining Roads themselves
6. Building and maintaining Residential waste elimination system (sewers)
All of these accounting expenses would rolled into one financial expense for a city, country, or global infrastructure. The problem comes when you have to dig up the existing infrastructure and rebuild. ULTIMATELY, your point about "driving on a solar panel" trumps all defense of this initiative. It probably will not work as you say.
+navyman4
sewage: how do solar panels on the surface help mitigate or improve sewage?
Electrical distribution: you still need HV cables overhead or that will be too expensive so power lines, you'd still need em
Cell tower / Urban WiFi / Emergency dispatching networks: you need networking infrastructure to back that up, and that would only compound the cost,
basically, there are better ways to do all these things, so why have 1 thing that tries to do all of them and fall short.
SpeedrunnerG55
That side tunnel...yeah...they are thinking of expanding it. Much of the TELECOM backbone is underground already. Cell towers wouldn't be needed. Every 50ft there could be transmitter/receivers that do the work of cell towers. Of course a TH-cam comment isn't sufficient to explain the enormous engineering effort; however, those general points should answer your question as best as allowed in short space.
SpeedrunnerG55
Also, I'm confused about your HV comment. I was in the Navy for 8yrs. Why would you need it overhead? We had it running through the ship just fine. Maybe I'm uneducated on this. Please explain.
when i said HV i dont mean residential power that is typically 240V i meant the cables above that that are several KV (110KV) its possible but very expensive to insulate.
SpeedrunnerG55
Oh I see. Well, seems like you are more educated on Extremely HV so yeah. This is likely impractical as he says. The kicker though is the very concept of building solar panels that are blocked by traffic itself. Inherently bad concept!
One of my facebook friends posted that Solar Freakin' Roadways promotional video one day. I linked to your vid that explained the problems with them and he defriended me.
Thank you Dave, for helping to remove so much negativity from my life. :)
What happens when the panels stop working? A team of engineers comes out and blocks traffic while they dig these things up and replace them. So now you have something that no longer functions as a solar panel or a road. We should be simplifying things, not adding unnecessary complexity. Murphy will get ya every time
+Martin T it is designed to work a very long time. it s not normal solar panels but special for road , it resists to trucks ! It is glued. Made with composite materials very resistant. A city hall can make a lot of money with solar road .
stephen10
Roads are designed to work a long time too, yet they fail. Ever driven over a pot hole? Normal roads are also made from composite materials, yet they fail under repeated, heavy loads. Adding this on top won't make the road any better. It's another thing to fail, and it will fail. Then the road is blocked off so traffic jams occur. What's wrong with putting the panels on rooftops?
Martin T rooftops are private. This company Colas take a risk , let them try something interesting.
If they're spending their own money, good luck to them. If it's public money they're spending, then no, they should be open to criticism
+stephen10 "This company Colas take a risk"
No. Their only risk is that they will not milk some cash from government cow if they fail. The only efford they make is putting some shitty animations and paying people "in charge" to get this project running.
I have always imagined that solar roadways would be a thing some day. But, that would be when they became more cost-effective than asphalt or concrete. We need multiple breakthroughs before we are at that point.
I vote for a Gravitational Waves powered generator.
+Haas You mean like hydro-electric? Where the effect of gravity waves on water causes it to move in the direction of the wave generator... and where we place turbines in the way to convert that linear movement into rotational force?
+Haas
LOL!
It will cost a billion dollars and make you wait 10 years for the power.
+JimmyDB - No, I want the real deal. A generator powered by Gravity waves. ;) Don't ask why, caus it will be awesome!
@david be a champ and do the calculations :) The plan is to use a piezoelectric material that stretches and generates electrons. We should make it as strong as possible because it will deform no matter how strong it is.
+geonerd Wow that is really cheap, now I want one for sure!
Thanks for such an entertaining, truthful presentation. Thoroughly enjoyed it.
This is why we need experts such as engineers and physicists within government. Perhaps Dave should go into politics?
+Superterabyt e You don't even have to be an 'expert.' Anyone with a lick of common sense and a few years of science-focused edufication should be able to critique this nonsense.
+Superterabyt e He'd go dumb. Politics is meant for retards. Only retards with no school end up at the top. Have you seen the plagiarism scandals in Europe?
+aserta appealing permanently to the lowest common denominator has a peculiar drain on one's cognitive abilities.
This has to be one of my all-time favorite videos of yours!
+Gyppor Thanks.
Why on roads thought? Is it the sci-fi aspect that's so appealing?
I think adding panels to every roof in the area would be better than streets. Has nobody mentioned the fact that cars will be also blocking light as well? Solar Roads are a terrible idea. It's a sci-fi pipe dream.
+StoreBrand I blame Tron. :(
+Mari Onette LOL and well put! :)
+StoreBrand "Is it the sci-fi aspect that's so appealing?"
The government should put solar panels on the back of jet packs.
yes you're right, if They just install the same number of panel on roof top it wil greatly increase the efficiency.
i know the shading effects on solar panel and how slowly mppt of the micro inverter decrease the efficiency when even a small car or bike will make it worse in energy output .
What is this new fascination of putting solar panels UNDERNEATH stuff?
Sure it's different, but do they understand why putting them ON TOP of things has been the norm for so long?
+MrNateSPF Because thats how greens think. They dont!
this has nothing to do with green politics.
When I saw this video it was like Christmas. I love nothing more then watching Dave go bonkers about solar road ways.
Would it be possible to harness energy created by cars travelling on roadways much like the Mall of America harnesses the energy of people to heat itself? If so, I'd love to see a video on guesstimations of what kind of energy that could produce, some of the difficulties in implementation, etc. Great video!
+Drew NA Nope. The energy has to come from somewhere, there is no free lunch.
+EEVblog We could place them only in downhills :-)
+Drew NA are you talking about piezzoelectric ground tiles ?
+EEVblog Increased fuel consumption. I reckon I could get backing for something like this. What dya think Exxon?
+Drew NA
large.stanford.edu/courses/2012/ph240/garland1/
Excellent analysis!
The road to hell is paved with solar panels.
Thank you for staying on this, it's not just entertaining.
What about solar road shades? Solar panel corridors over the roadway, which do essentially the same thing, require less maintenance, and could possibly increase safety by cutting down on glare, and decrease pollution because shaded cars don't need to run an AC as heavily during the summer? Anyone? Anyone? We can start a Kickstarter campaign tomorrow and become wildly rich!
Sorry, but... solar submarine and wind-turbine powered cargo aircrafts first, French ideas will win!
Jean-Marc Chevalier The wind powered aircraft makes sense! I mean, you are moving through the air, so stick a big turbine on the front to harness that energy. Then, put that energy into turning the propeller, which pushes it forward, which generates wind, which powers the propeller...GENIUS! Someone, put someone on building a crowd funding campaign. We got money to scam...err...investments to earn...that's what I meant.
Here in Denmark we are talking about a bicycle road for about 20-30 km with solar panels covering parts of the road, and providing power for the lights at night through batteries. It's actually a pretty great idea, and should even be able to send something back to the grid, while being prestigious, pretty to look at and providing shade and cover for the bicyclist.
The idea is to get more people to bike to work, it's gonna be in a pretty heavily traffic area, so we would (hopefully) also get less cars, when you could bike under a roof with lights during the night. I kinda like it, even if it would be a semi-failure, it's not the worst we could try to spend our money on.
(We already have tons of solar arrays and wind turbines)
I will tell you why to do it. Because even if its not as efficient as it could be, it will point us in the right direction and you can gradually improve from there. Seeking perfection before even starting makes no sense.
+Jona Goldman The point is that with the same amount of money, you can make a least 6 times more energy (as Dave says) by installing the solar pannels on top of buildings or other things that are favorable for solar energy rather than putting them on the road, thus making more energy with less cost/material waste
I am no expert, but installing panels in private buildings is not as simple as it sounds. You need to sign contracts and install controllers for each building. It can take years. It's a lot of work. It is more realistic for a government to install one long zone of panels in something they control, like roads.
+Jona Goldman Germany has shown that it's easy to install solar on privat buildings with feed in tariffs. There are a lot of public buildings: schools, town halls, police stations, hospitals, there are a lot of commercial buildings. To put solar on roads makes no sense.
+Jona Goldman That is not an actual issue. doing solar roadways because you don't like to sign contracts basically amounts to trying to solve a lot of massive problems because you don't feel like solving a few tiny trivial ones.
Also, " it will point us in the right direction and you can gradually improve from there" did you watch the video? Dave adresses that at 12:35... all this does is make green energy look bad.
Yeah but its even more impractical to put solar panels on roads, their gonna get covered up constantly by cars, and like guy in the video said, the efficiency is so horrible and it cost more. Also when a solar panel is flat it doesn't collect as much sun as if it were angled to the sun and tracking it. If you need directions to where your going you can use a map, buy a gps, or ask someone, or read the signs on the road. We don't need a solar roadway to do all this crazy shit for us when what we have already works.
What about piezo roadways in high traffic density areas?
MrGuano11 Same unusable amounts of energy and extremely high cost. A windmill somewhere else or few solar panels would be much more reasonable and cost effective
So like... That silly road in France has just open
Yes, it's mind boggling how stupid people are...
Why all the outdoor solar lights struggle to survive a season?
My 5 main concerns about this bullshit:
1. What if I am walking along, doodoodoodadoo, oh shit, I dropped my hammer!
2. Imagine falling off your bike while riding on a solar roadway... You might be fine but you just broke like 5 solar panels...
3. What if a tree falls or something like that?
4. I bet a lot of teenagers will just WANT to smack that road with a sledgehammer... I know I would
5. What if a car wreck happens? Tire marks all over the place, and possibly 8 broken solar panels...
Basically, durability and rigidity is a huge issue.
+LazorVideos As an exemple, do you know what Epoxy, Polycarbonate, Nylon, Kevlar is ? Those chemicals can stop bullets ...
Thanks God, french are not 60Millions teenagers with a sledgehammer and you brain.
+Tim Clo You could be right, but surely they can easily
be damaged, even if they are made out of plastic alternatives to glass. But as Dave explained, plastic is soft and does not allow enough clarity to produce enough power. Plastic has low clarity as it is, but imagine the maintenance of replacing the panels annually because somebody fell off their bike and scratched it, which lowers the amount of light (Polycarbonate usually has a poor aperture of over 3.0, and scratches can make that even worse)
The cost results are in, and the results are stunning.
According to Colas, it costs €17 to generate 1 kilowatt of energy, as opposed to €1.30 for a normal solar installation. That's OVER 13 TIMES THE COST FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF ENERGY!
of course france
My thought is technology, price and efficiency aren't the main issue here. The main issue is that the goal is to answer a problem we don't yet have: the lack of space. I am French, and in France we have so many roofs well oriented which don't have any solar panels. Developing a better grid or a smart grid, keeping the focus on the costs/will issue of conventional methods and developing ways to store energy seems to be way more important than this roads. And even with a lack of space, there is still better obvious solutions to get power from solar without using a dedicated footprint.
But we don't loose a lot trying this on only 1km, maybe we can gets some data out of this, which can't be bad. I'm sorry for the companies which invest in it (well, they still can find buyers with commercial bullshit) but I'm still glad they tried ;)
Fantastic Dave. Great analysis. I'm a "greenie" and as liberal as they come, but even normal folks like me can clearly see the folly here as you've outlined. I LOVE this channel!
"It's our responsibility as a society to produce renewable energy system that are as efficient as possible" best quote ever on the issue.
Ministry of silly roads
1:51 awesome hip-hop, I love the rhythm :-)
What about Solar Freaking Traintracks ?
-Just plop em down between the tracks and we're good to go, loads of unused space, and the trains run on the tracks on between them so not as much wear and teac.
Could someone help me get like *puts pinkie finger to side of the mouth * a mill. . . billion! dollarhs *hahahahahaa* to try it out ?
That said, it would run into the same problems as a long distance energy transfers, and then there's scavangers who'd love to cut and sell the cables and shit even if one could figure out everything else.
The best application I can think of would be in tandem with maglev/train/s/rail-system but those are really rare, japan and china only (?), but even that would have some special problems on it's own.
CommentsForOnce but it doesn't sound cool and futuristic haha
super vid, Dave! You may put some wind power comparison or other greens on next vids
When i saw the solar roadway on the news, i wonder when Dave is going to do another video on it… and there it is!
Easiest analysis in History
Solar roadways = (Vanity project + Waste of money)
Well done Dave!
As a landscape architect, this sounds like a maintenance nightmare. It's hard enough getting people to look after their plants.
13:10 is I think, the single best description of solar roadways possible.
I would be interested to know how the calculations balance up once the cost of a traditional highway wearing course and sub-base have been factored in.
Maintenance is probably the hardest factor to compute
has anyone factored in the fact that if you turned the M25 in UK into solar roadway the road will be 99% in shade from traffic.
In Canada we get snow on the roads for aboutt 4 months of the year (where I live). On the roads we use gravel, sand, and salt and use heavy plows. Further it is not uncommon to see studded tires for additional traction. On some roads chains are used. How long would a panel last?
I'm impressed that they have panels that they can park a truck on and, presumably, they still work. The sort of durability will useful for rooftop systems in harsh weather environments.
Roadways? What happens the first time a backhoe has to dig into it to fix a broken pipe?
Wouldn't you EXPECT the additional bells and whistles provided by the roadway tiles to force less efficience than the roof tiles?
What's happens when you cover 1/3 of the panel surface with rubber from burnouts
Honestly the little two-cell modules at 2:32 look pretty nice. I work a lot with single lithium ion cells in my hobby and it's pretty hard to find solar arrays that peak around five volts, and self-crafted ones tend to be bulky and fragile. I'd spend $5-10 a pop on them.
I totally agree, except for one point:
"It will be/might be/is complicated"
That is not a good point. It never is, not for any argument. Not even close. We already have massively complicated infrastructures. We're actually pretty good, as a species, at dealing with complicated infrastructures.
If there were a simpler alternative, that is one thing. But wiring up loads of non-roadway solar panels are just as complicated a problem as wiring up solar roadways.
Again, I totally agree with you on everything else. I just really have a thing against anyone claiming that a system is "too complicated" when there really isn't an apparently simpler solution.
EDIT: Specifically, I'm talking about where 12:50 or so when you said someone had to plan the system. There are other reasons why solar roadways are more complicated, that just isn't actually one of them.
+Christopher Pilcher No, commercial installation are much easier to install, wire and maintain than ever solar roadways will be.
I just figured that, in theory, solar roadways would have an output in the same way that normal solar panels do. In that sense, specifically installing them and wiring them into the grid is no more complicated than doing the same for commercial panels.
Devils advocate, but not having to install a structure to support them would save in costs, from what I can tell. EDIT: By that I mean something to keep them off the ground and stable; as in you could put these "new" solar roadways on the old roadways.
But that said, I have never read the "spec sheets" (if we could call it that), so I'm making a huge assumption.
But you're totally right. Like I said, I agree with everything else. All of it. Maintenance is harder, it's less efficient, all that *much more important stuff* is so true!
+Christopher Pilcher Nope, sorry. Roads surfaces need drainage, so you need other channels dub specifically for the electronics and cabling. Trenches next to roads (that rip up footpaths and verges etc) are expensive. Commercial installations don't have these hassles.
EEVblog I didn't think about that, you're right.
+Christopher Pilcher How many low voltage power lines do you see running for 1-2km in a single stretch... Oh, wait, no we use high voltage cabling as the energy losses just in the cables become too high. You can't just dig a ditch and stick a telecoms cable in it. You need to invert and step it up, some serious insulation, some seriously thick copper then one also needs some power storage as solar has a basic issue with power storage, else that energy isn't available at night when it is most needed for house lights etc. 1000km of this, you got to be kidding, all the energy profit is gone just by the time the energy is transmitted anywhere. One can not just wire these things into a grid and be done with it.
But in a Urban area isn't their always going to be shadows from the buildings unless it's directly mid day?
So what happens when I'm riding my motorbike on this surface and it starts raining? Fail.
yay i was waiting for this!
I like solar roof shingles the best.
I think there is something we are missing here and that is the availability of land. Here in Australia we've got plenty of space to set up commercial solar farms; but when you have places in Europe like Denmark and the Baltic States that are building out into the ocean where they can.
This is pretty much the only reason I could see to implement these solar roadway solutions (apart from winning political brownie points in the short term).
However I do not know enough about land cost and availability in Europe to do any more than just theory a possible practical reason why they are looking into this in Europe.
So what you are saying is....solar roadways don't work?
+Tracy Reed No, they work, they are just a stupid idiotic idea.
+EEVblog Hahaha...just messing with you. :) So they don't work economically. I hadn't seen your previous debunking but I was always skeptical. Thanks for breaking down the situation for us.
I'm surprised you respond here so fast! I subscribed only a couple months ago but I have already greatly enjoyed your channel. Love to see your son getting in on the fun too! Legos were one of my favorite toys and are my own son's too!
Keep up the great work!
+DC Provide more power then extra cost of the road cost! And is first test road that are not mass production, cost will go down.
Your videos are great so informative cannot wait to send you some electronic gear to take apart
What were the 2 first videos linked in description? They don't seem to exist anymore, just like the 12 months wattaway tests. Links are incomplete maybe.
Will you complement this video with the results from the kilometer of wattway solar roadway made by the French Ministry of Silly Walks? It could be interesting to see what the output is and what it means for their 1000km project.
good job Dave! :)
Since when has cost ever stopped politicians from going ahead with projects?
I never really understood why anybody would think solar roads could be a good idea. You do not even need to do the calculations to compare it to rooftop installations. "Let's put solar panels on a surface where cars will regularly block out the sun. Yeah, that sounds like a good idea." I mean, it would even be better to put roofs with solar panels over the roads. Would cost a bit more to build (not even sure about that, since you would be able to use standard panels), but you would avoid a LOT of the problems. Plus, during the summer people would be able to drive in the shade, and during the winter, you would not have to remove snow from the roads :-)
You are using $ per watt produced to say that solar roadways cost 3x as much than commercial ground in a best case scenario, Then use that $ per Watt ratio and combine it with the fact that the solar roadways have half watt output than roof installation to double the ratio and end up at 6 times the cost per watt. Don't think that makes sense, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding something here
The ratio intended should be the cost per sq m which leads to 480ish €/m2 vs 220 €/m2 for solar panel... so just twice the price.
but in line with other comments : what is the total lifecycle cost of a road square meter ? How does that compare with photovoltaic road square meter ?
Most links in the description are broken.
more videos man 😊 love em
I wonder if they've taken the cost of the annual strikes into account - when the French lorry drivers block the roads for a few days, set fire to the barricades and destroy the road surface.
Good on you Dave! I was hoping you'd do something with the French announcement... :)
I love you Dave!!
why not install them on top of the road like a roof ?
I've got the sun shining out off my arse. Where can I get solar panel seat cusions?
You completely ignore the fact that the road otherwise would bring in 0 wh...
My point being, yes they are not as effective as roof top solar arrays, but does that mean we should not investigate the idea?
Why bother investigating if it fundamentally doesn't make sense? There is a fixed amount to be spent on renewable energy, why spend it on inefficient and untested (so risky) technologies when you get so much more bang for buck elsewhere
+Tim You completely ignore the fact that Dave (and many others) have investigated what the results would be... (watch the vids where he even uses the optimistic values from the manufacturers or the video after that where the trial testing proves what Dave presented earlier)
My point being, you don't have to install solar roadways to determine the installation and material costs and maximum energy output. The whole situation only gets WORSE with maintenance, damage and the brilliant idea of placing huge moving 'shade makers' over the panels.
Mark Robinson Again, short sighted. It does make sense, roads just lay there doing nothing, why couldn't they produce energy?
> There is a fixed amount to be spent on renewable energy, why spend it on inefficient and untested
There you go, untested! That's why we have to test it. Why should that budget *just* be spend on already proven concepts and not push the boundries of what is possible? How do you think we have gotten to the solar panels we have today? Did they just fall out of the sky?
JimmyDB - You completely ignore my point. How do you think we came to the current solar tech? By just sitting back and not invest and investigate in it? I'm sure the efficiency that we have today was right there when we made the first solar panel, right guys?
+Tim you are totally missing the point, there is no point in wasting money in new technology which is clearly not as good, and will never be as good, as what we already have.
We can see efficiency and develop new technology without rolling it out on a massive scale! But in this instance it is extremely clear that solar roadways will never be as good as a traditional installation just due to practical reasons.
Your point about roadways currently not generating electricity might be valid if we have no other space to put solar panels at all - but there are also rooftops not generating electricity currently, and putting the panels there is clearly better so why not do that instead?
Instead of using them for electricity for the grid, what about if they used the energy they generated for lighting the road, lane markings etc? Or is that still not feasible?
I've seen an article about transparent solar panels replacing windows etc, could you share your thoughts on that one?
With the Colas Wattway... could you use the principle to make SHINGLES? Could you decrease the resin protection and still be a good rooftop shingle?
Well, the biggest issue is that roads might become obsolete in less than 10 years if hyperloop gets implemented in an open source fashion. One could of course place commercial solar panels on the top of hyperloop tunnels.
there are also suggestions to cover the Sahara desert with solar panels...
I have a question. What kind of maintenance does it require to run a solar powerplant? I heard that every couple of years (7 i think) you need to replace the old pannels with new ones. Is that true?
About that half efficiency - I hope you didn't forget about main difference between roads and roofs. On roof you can point panels in "ideal" angle to sun, on roads you simply can't.
In my area, the road generally has to be repaired every 1-3 years, after winter, there will be some damage, as well as chunks knocked out when the plows run through. The road also takes a beating due to large trucks regularly running through.
Other than that, they also often need to dig the road up when ever they need to do maintenance of water, gas, electrical and data lines. Solar panels on a road used be vehicles will never last long enough to cover their own cost.
The problem with governments handling this stuff, is the people who make these choices never think long term, they think only of what is good for their image right now.
E.g., some local schools have ordered ipads for all of the students to use in class, after a round 2 years, most of them are not working, the remaining ones have a host of issues such as pressure marks on the screen from people pushing it too hard, scratches, and crap battery life because they are run all day. When I was doing student teaching, and wanted to use the tablets, the cooperating teacher recommended that I avoid them since they are too unreliable, and don't last long enough to get any work done.
The principal got tricked into getting a ton of non serviceable tablets that ended up being junk after about 2 years.
+Razor2048 Exactly. Maintenance will be the final stake-in-the-heart.
A typical asphalt road needs work every few years and a best-case rooftop solar install needs ~10 years to reach break even (with near-zero maintenance). Even if Wattways cost the same (much less 10x per watt), it would never pay for itself before wearing out and/or requiring wildly expensive repair.
+Razor2048 That's why it will never happen even if it was feasible from a power and road surface perspective.
The French minister watching this video & scrapping the project! 😂
+#01DF01Seba Abdur-Rehmaan One can only hope.
+Sebastian Hastrup You underestimate the "mental flexibility" of some politicians...
Sebastian Hastrup You've underestimated a politicians mind, it's hopeless!
+#01DF01Seba Abdur-Rehmaan the minister has probably some shares in the company or at least the family
friends etc
It's a pretty idea but Dave just did a great job showing that it's just not practical. It makes a lot more sense for the gov't to promote and subsidize more rooftop installation and large scale plants.
how yours sinclair C5 is doing? any progress or upcoming progress?