Thanks. So that 400k would buy 3252 405W panels, not including installation. That's a 1.317MW array vs 54kW for the Platio's 400sqm. LOL. Let's round to 1MW includng installation of a traditional rooftop/commercial solar array. Basically 20 times the capacity for the same price, sound about right.
@@danosdotnlIf they are not then it is even better! It means that very soon they are going to get another juicy transfer for govrnment subsidized orders. And since it does not make them any less "innovative" it would actually be great news for their stakeholders. It is pretty much the crappier the better as long as it does not look like a complete piece of garbage and they still manage to make the government spend the money!
People who think these projects are harmless don't understand opportunity cost. These projects take time and money away from real and practical solutions. The best solar installation I have seen was solar panels over a parking lot. Shades cars and easy access for maintenance. There is no shortage of parking lots to cover.
Yes. Put solar panels OVER parking lot. Or OVER a bike line. On roofs of trains stations and bus stations. Maybe even sides of buildings. But why on Earth would you put them on earth?
Completely agree. I'd rather they would have installed roof top residential solar on a low income neighborhood than give money to these shitty scam companies.
since the only ones that care are the government, and they have satellites. Yes you can. Hey, maybe that is the problem. The hot panels block the infra red from seeing inside.
Ten times more cost per energy is best case! The much higher wear will rapidly reduce energy out, while epic maintenance costs will rapidly increase price. I’d expect the actual to be more like 20x worse over the lifetime of the projects.
And the lifetime of 5 years they expect is also a very optimistic one unless they've included the price of replacing the frameworks and the glass covers every other year. And I hope they don't have the thing called winter and temperatures don't go well below 0°C every once in a while or otherwise all the things are just guaranteed to fail. So even the 10 times below conventional figure is completely unrealistic. Even pushing the expectations another order of magnitude below does not seem unreasonable. It is not going to become a complete and utter serviceman's nigthmare like a stupid solar roadway would but it is still going to be bad. But of course all the technical and economic issues just pale in comparaison to the priceless benefits of looking progressive and green they still successfully provide.
@@jwenting Also glass and plastic are very prone of scratches. Even a very fine dust could cause severe scratch mark in the surface if there are heavy objects moving over it, like it's scratched by sandpapers over and over again
trillions so far and they are just getting started. Man's insignificant 3% contribution to CO2 emissions has no effect on the climate. The greenhouse effect is almost overwhelmingly due to water vapour. None of the predictions of doom have come to pass and they are all supposed to have happened by now. The planet is cooling not warming.
The Dutch video didn't mention any technically relevant stuff. One of the people interviewed who was the person who installed it did say that this is only supposed to be a solution after every rooftop has been used for panels.
@@DrakkarCalethiel Too bad none of this will percolate its way up through government and get people up there fired, and/or jailed for their wasteful ways and irresponsible handling of taxpayer money. And dopey media would never hold government accountable.
I have smell something stinky already in the beginning - pressure cannot be given in tons. Let's consider that it can widthstand the weight of the car of 2 tons (mentioned in their brochure). The best scenario for patio is 2 tons on one tile. Widthstand pressure = 2000*10/(0.34*0.34) = 173kPa. Young lady stepping in high heels - 50*10/(0.01*0.01) = 5 MPa. I have simplified it since walking is not staying on one leg, walking does not produce static pressure, 1 cm^2 is optimistic value ( size is usually smaller, the touching surface during the boot stepping down will be even smaller), car weight will be distributed to 4 tiles etc. Do the people really do not remember the classic example of airplane floor failure, where had been holes in the floor even with safety coeficients? After putting the floor to the hallway they have found the real reason 🙂. Simply the pressure is what really matters.
I've said it before: If we still need more solar capacity after every roof on every building in every city has been solar panelized, *then* we can entertain the idea of putting solar panels in transportation surfaces
Yeah, put solar panels on the top of the electric vehicle for 5-10% extra free range every day, and put the solar panels and batteries on the electric train to allow the emergency pullover when the grid power goes out
Enphase inverters... what an installation! Just imagine you need to replace the one at the back of the stack. You have to remove 20 nuts before you get there.
Dumb Government: Quick, we need a solar project to virtue signal. Platio: We'd love to help but EEVBlog will rip us a new one again. Dumb Government: What? Who? We need those panels, how much? Platio: Well in that case sign right here. Rinse and repeat.
They are not stupid.. just corrupted. Look into connections and i'm willing to be money Platio has connections to politicians that agreed to this bullshit and is giving kickback ie bribing the politicians or their relatives are working on Platio, or out right just own stock on Platio....
@@Chris-rg6nm Luckily you can see them fairly close to the buildings they are on and they are largeish panels, plus they currently have a sign attached to the scaffolding explaining what's happening. All of our sites in the SW are supposedly getting them and it makes a lot of sense. Most of the year they'll probably be just supplying us with power but that might change in the winter when we are fully/partially closed.
@@dglcomputers1498I'd not say 'just' - every kWh you generate for yourself is a kWh not needed to be generated elsewhere in the grid / freed up to be used by someone else...
@@michaeltempsch5282 Quite, it should also save us money in the long run. With a bar/resturant, owners bar, entertainment venue, amusements, indoor and outdoor pool, just over 700 caravans, a touring area plus all the supporting stuff (computers, HVAC Etc.) we do use a lot of power.
The efficiency of the CELL MAY be 21.8% but the MODULE is 16.8%, The efficiency of the Pv module is based on the area of the MODULE and not the cell. If they can't get the basics right they might as well leave us in peace.
Oh and let’s see the efficiency in a year from now. Solar cell efficiency falls nonlinearly with occultation. Even some dirt and pitting on the surface will decrease output more than what would linearly follow just from additional absorption in the top of the tile. Oh. Forgot. Shadowing by pedestrians will be a big problem if there’s reasonable foot traffic there too. And some people may come over specifically to see the novelty for themselves. That weekly output we saw was, I bet, with barriers all around it and no people walking on top. But sure a cool way to get those sweet sweet EU funds while wasting everyone’s time and consuming resources we’re supposed to save…
The ones I've liked for these "innovative solutions", are classic PV panels used as shade structures. At least those are adding a secondary passive benefit (the shade) rather than being negatively affected by shadows thrown by people/cars/patio fences etc. [edit] Oh, reached the end of the video, you found those already :D
Did you see that each of those small tiles weighs 6.5kg at 35x35cm? A standard panel weighs 5-10kg per 1m square. That's almost 9x less weight. 9x less material. Not counting the construction under the tiles.
So, we have run out of homes and factories to cover in solar panels? Every carpark has a roof and is covered in panels? No? Then what the hell are we doing putting solar panels in some of the worst possible places?
I can't help it, but when "solar raods" are mentioned, the Holman Steam Locomotive comes to my mind. That was also a "great" idea to improve the grip of locomotive wheels on the tracks. Sounds great in the first minute but turns out that it doesn't work. Such ideas have been around since centuries and there are still people falling for it. Radium toothpaste anyone...?
I can't believe their w*nky plugs are slightly bigger than our British Type G plugs and receptacles! Crazy! And I thought we had the biggest and baddest plugs in the world. Psh!
The average yearly capacity factor of solar in the Netherlands is 8%, and you get most of that on summer and almost nothing on winter when they need it the most to not freeze.
You know what they do in certain cities? They build pergolas under which people can park dozens of cars and shield them from the scorching hot sun. Guess what they use for the pergolas? That's right. Solar panels. Above ground. Can you imagine? 😂
The main problem is that even if these installations were to be as efficient as rooftop solar, most people don't realize that the bulk of the total cost is going to be cost of maintenance of the systems as well as the ancillary systems required to properly monitor and operate the setup. For context, I've worked on a tender several years back (on the IT side of things as part of a large consortium) for massive rooftop solar projects called by the local government here in Asia and the numbers are quite telling. The tender called for a installation and maintenance of 70MWp output from 1,400+ solar array installations with minimum 85GWh generation guaranteed for the 1st year - with degradation to 80% of nominal output at the end of 20 years. Our estimates put the project at a cost of about $50 million upfront (about $10 million goes to the other misc. systems & services like IT networking infrastructure, IOT monitoring systems, backend hub datacenter equipment etc) along with an annual maintenance contract of about $13 million per year to keep the systems running at the required outputs. This was a grid-tied setup (without batteries) and even if we average out the allowable degradation and at the electrical tariffs at the point in time which the system could 'sell' the electricity back to the grid, the entire setup would only provide about $13.3 million per year of sold electricity to the grid. This means that the $310 million total investment would only give a returns of $6 million after 20 years (1.9% ROI after 20 years) if the government does not even need to pay their own staff to manage the maintenance vendor. The only way the tender would even make any monies was to actually lease out the use of the installed IOT infrastructure to other agencies. E.g. Urban planning agencies to run IOT ambient sensors (light & noise pollution), environmental agencies to run sensors to detect issues with sewage drains, town councils to run sensors to detect refuse collection points sensors to optimize garbage truck runs to reduce costs etc. They did eventually go ahead with these series of projects (this was just one of many phases to cover about 20,000 rooftops in total) since the justification wasn't so much to save/ generate money but just a go green(er) initiative since we don't have the natural resources or land space to have any other alternatives for 'clean' renewable energy (hydro, nuclear, wind etc.) and have solely relied on fossil fuels to generate power locally.
@@marcogenovesi8570f you had a way of shipping stuff cheaply to Africa of India then you would quickly realize that everything has a resale value. The only question is whether it is above or below the costs of ripping it apart and getting it to your customers. If the solar panels can be easilly separated from the stupid boxes and protective glass then even if it is a one time deal of a few hundreds of theese then still some guys in China will welcome them with open arms. The smart guys will snap together some nice cheap commercial solar panels out of them and AliExpress will deliver them to multiple happy customers!
I'm going to arrange something with my Romani friends, they have a few tricks to teach me, don't really care if it's going to be sold or not, it's showtime. 🫠
Groenigen is just 40min to drive for me... gotta check it out myself lol, ridiculous 3:33 all the roofs infront of the walkway are not yet populated with panels.... omg, you can ripp off these idiots way to easy
BEWARE ❗ The solar pavement is supposed to be in Groningen, NOT Groeningen. Groeningen is a small hamlet in Limburg, Groningen (city) is more than 250 km to the north . . .
Hardly any snow in Winter in the Netherlands, no danger here. But any usual road dirt, chewing gum and any kind of casted shadow will ruin the power output.
The politician always gets to press a big button at the turn on ceremony. One day I'd like to see one turn up only for a grumpy engineer to hand over a ten-page pre-start checklist and say "If you want to turn it on, do it right."
Hi mate, Ive sent you my essay which explains absolutely everything. It's all about Holland, home of the slave traders, inventors of corporations, insurance, futures trading, and the renewables scam. It's laundering money. They also invented Bitcoin that released at a Dutch hacking convention in 2009, I was living there and I'm half Dutch
you forget one thing in the calculations which is the cleaning cost as the derbies, shoe rubber and drink spillage plus any other stuff that will accumulate on top of these tiles; as well it will decrease the output power even more (+ the shadow effect). I guess there will not be any ROI or even negative cash flow due to operation and maintenance costs.
Solar roadways/pavements is like Sherry Lewis’ ending song to her children’s show. Like the song that never ends, these flipping solar boondoggles never stop… Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
If yo put the solar panels on top of cars on the parking lot the get all the sun and shade the cars preventing them from getting hot. If you put it on the ground the cars block the panels. That makes no sense.
i`m from the Netherlands (thanks for not saying Holland) and clearly this video has not enough ranting in it, furthermore i just want to see what this will do when its going below zero degrees celsius, can we skate on it then. I love this video`s and busting these solar initiatives.
As long as not EVERY available roof, parking lot etc... are covered with solar panels there is just no sense in putting them elsewhere (huge solarfarms and farm field solar being exceptions because of obvious reasons)
NNow see, if this could had just been a solar roof for an exiting walkway as a rain shield in an area with much sun exposure, this wouldn't be _so_ bad. But they put it in the ground. And with it, as well any prospect of it working well.
Just build a normal patio (covered like a carport) and put solar panels on it. Best of both worlds. You get the good efficiency of the normal PVs and also get some shade. I guess in northern places they don't want to build things for shade because it's always cold. But in hot climates shade is a good thing and solar power is a nice bonus.
People are so infatuated by these new fads that they go for anything that says sustainable, solar or green ...... but they don't think or even know how things work, therefore they go along and get duped...!!! Great work.
Not really, because recycled plastic isn't exactly known for its durability when it comes to heat, UV, and the outdoors in general. I suspect their claims of using recycled plastic might be BS
@@marcogenovesi8570 The point is… this money is wasted in an absolutely egregious manner. For the same price you could get sooo much more solar energy over the lifetime of good old rooftop panels.
i am still not 100% unsold on alternative solar installations, but the thing I really worry about with these solar walk ways is how long is it before someone gets electricuted by a faulty install.
@@InfernosReaper well yeah you wouldn't need to keep them there for years on end. just deploy from some ships suitable for storing shipping containers in a way they could be accessed, , fit in modules 0.5 meters high and you'd fit 120-110 square meters of panel with space left over for cables. have the battery pack containers on land. point being emergency deployment to some island or coastal area that got wrecked, the point wouldn't be optimal operation or angles or like that at all, just quick mass deployment and not needing to unload the cargo onto land in the disaster area which is the only thing the sea makes sense for in most of the world. later let the locals tow them to land if they figure out a place on land for them so they can maintain them
Solar panels on lakes can actually work though. The panels work a bit better because the water can provide cooling, and the panels can go on 'land' that is otherwise unproductive. There are no rough seas on a lake, so the support platform is just plastic floats and aluminium frame.
The dude at 2:35 is worked for Wizzair as chief supply officer, but got fired because of secret stock trading for approximately a year and a half. He is looking for opportunities to make big bucks.
I will start a company for those "innovative solutions". I will tell companies to put solar panels on roofs and maybe to make a shed for smokers with solar panel roof. Or walking corridor to public transport.
I’m completely on board with this but you can’t just point at a roof and say put them there. We’ve tried that and the engineering cost to deal with loads and the cost/potential for flat root installations to leak can make it totally intractable. New buildings? Sure.
They could've put in a walkway overhead shelter, even a narrow one so to keep costs down then put solar panels on the roof. You get shelter from the rain/snow and solar power when the sun is shining. Cost would be minimal too.
As Dave has highlighted governments (and grifting businesses) are doing this all over the world. All we can do is call it out - maybe in the era of social media there's a chance more people will find out it doesn't make sense and stop wasting money on it.
I think the French have come up with the best option. Required all new car parks have a roof with Solar panels on it. A known, reliable technology. The downside is it doesn't attract huge amounts of venture capital. You could do this to new roads, which would offer the advantage that the roof would offer some protection from the noise of the road for the local population.
It's still beyond me why we don't have solars all over our parking lots in the UK, so many are just sitting there with no cover and lots of wasted space where solar could go...
According to the website of the city Groningen the total cost of the installation was about 400,000 Euro, of which 290,000 was subsidized by the EU.
Thanks. So that 400k would buy 3252 405W panels, not including installation. That's a 1.317MW array vs 54kW for the Platio's 400sqm. LOL.
Let's round to 1MW includng installation of a traditional rooftop/commercial solar array. Basically 20 times the capacity for the same price, sound about right.
But are they earthquake proof?
@@danosdotnlIf they are not then it is even better! It means that very soon they are going to get another juicy transfer for govrnment subsidized orders. And since it does not make them any less "innovative" it would actually be great news for their stakeholders. It is pretty much the crappier the better as long as it does not look like a complete piece of garbage and they still manage to make the government spend the money!
@@danosdotnl why wouldn't they, it's literally pavement
It's not mentioned on the web site of Groningen city !
So where is it ? (link please)
People who think these projects are harmless don't understand opportunity cost. These projects take time and money away from real and practical solutions. The best solar installation I have seen was solar panels over a parking lot. Shades cars and easy access for maintenance. There is no shortage of parking lots to cover.
Yeah, that's a good one. Similarly, the only "solar roadways" that need to exist are ones mounted *above* the roads
Yes. Put solar panels OVER parking lot. Or OVER a bike line. On roofs of trains stations and bus stations. Maybe even sides of buildings.
But why on Earth would you put them on earth?
Completely agree. I'd rather they would have installed roof top residential solar on a low income neighborhood than give money to these shitty scam companies.
Also these projects don't take time and money away from real solutions. That's like saying having and arts budget takes money away from the poor.
@@Chris-rg6nm I don't think you are understanding the concept of "opportunity cost".
It feels like theyre actively avoiding anywhere solar panels would make sense. Why are they obsessed with putting solar panels partially underground?
Because it's not "innovative" so they can't get special government program money for it
It's the "don't step on a crack" game, but with solar.
Because they break and need to be replaced fast equals profit.
Convincing a panel of people spending other people's money that you're innovating is significantly easier than actually being innovative.
"Innovation" is a great virtue signal.
You can't show off your solar panels if they're up on the roof where no one can see them.
since the only ones that care are the government, and they have satellites. Yes you can.
Hey, maybe that is the problem. The hot panels block the infra red from seeing inside.
Ten times more cost per energy is best case! The much higher wear will rapidly reduce energy out, while epic maintenance costs will rapidly increase price. I’d expect the actual to be more like 20x worse over the lifetime of the projects.
Yep, it's so nuts you just have to laugh.
And the lifetime of 5 years they expect is also a very optimistic one unless they've included the price of replacing the frameworks and the glass covers every other year. And I hope they don't have the thing called winter and temperatures don't go well below 0°C every once in a while or otherwise all the things are just guaranteed to fail.
So even the 10 times below conventional figure is completely unrealistic. Even pushing the expectations another order of magnitude below does not seem unreasonable. It is not going to become a complete and utter serviceman's nigthmare like a stupid solar roadway would but it is still going to be bad. But of course all the technical and economic issues just pale in comparaison to the priceless benefits of looking progressive and green they still successfully provide.
Worse still, people walk over them, park their bikes on it, they get shaded.
Also causes the panels to get dirty, reducing output.
20x is very optimistic
@@jwenting Also glass and plastic are very prone of scratches. Even a very fine dust could cause severe scratch mark in the surface if there are heavy objects moving over it, like it's scratched by sandpapers over and over again
imagine how much money and resources are wasted on a global scale with these scams.
The scams run all the way to the top.
All. The. Way.
trillions so far and they are just getting started.
Man's insignificant 3% contribution to CO2 emissions has no effect on the climate.
The greenhouse effect is almost overwhelmingly due to water vapour.
None of the predictions of doom have come to pass and they are all supposed to have happened by now.
The planet is cooling not warming.
@@hayd7371 Conspiracy obsession runs all the way to the bottom.
All. The. Way.
The Dutch video didn't mention any technically relevant stuff. One of the people interviewed who was the person who installed it did say that this is only supposed to be a solution after every rooftop has been used for panels.
Thanks. So even the installer thinks it was essentially a wasted effort? LOL
@@EEVblog effectively, he admitted that this is only useful for gathering data for when we need more power and we've exhausted roof space.
@@MLeoDaalder Wow, so, it truly is pointless because we'll never cover every bit of spare roofspace in my lifetime
@@MLeoDaalder At least they sorta admit that this is a waste of money, resources and time.
@@DrakkarCalethiel Too bad none of this will percolate its way up through government and get people up there fired, and/or jailed for their wasteful ways and irresponsible handling of taxpayer money. And dopey media would never hold government accountable.
I have smell something stinky already in the beginning - pressure cannot be given in tons. Let's consider that it can widthstand the weight of the car of 2 tons (mentioned in their brochure). The best scenario for patio is 2 tons on one tile. Widthstand pressure = 2000*10/(0.34*0.34) = 173kPa. Young lady stepping in high heels - 50*10/(0.01*0.01) = 5 MPa. I have simplified it since walking is not staying on one leg, walking does not produce static pressure, 1 cm^2 is optimistic value ( size is usually smaller, the touching surface during the boot stepping down will be even smaller), car weight will be distributed to 4 tiles etc.
Do the people really do not remember the classic example of airplane floor failure, where had been holes in the floor even with safety coeficients? After putting the floor to the hallway they have found the real reason 🙂. Simply the pressure is what really matters.
Exactly... I've stupidly stood on a glass table and it held me up. Years later, it was hit by hail and shattered.
Worked at de Havilland in ground test, we had a test stand to simulate repeated high heal impact on the cabin floor. Those high heals a nasty.
It is a random number for normies to make it sound like it is very strong but really means nothing.
@@v.m.a.d.l.e.6972 yup, those tiles are made of "military grade, space age, surgical steel" or something
What do you mean pressure isn't measured in tons? Haven't you ever seen How It's Made?
I've said it before: If we still need more solar capacity after every roof on every building in every city has been solar panelized, *then* we can entertain the idea of putting solar panels in transportation surfaces
Yeah, put solar panels on the top of the electric vehicle for 5-10% extra free range every day, and put the solar panels and batteries on the electric train to allow the emergency pullover when the grid power goes out
The apparent persistence and resillience of these scams demands cruel and unusual punishments. Change my mind.
I have a solar powered vitreous ceramic balcony floor. It’s not used for PV but is excellent for unwantingly frying bare feet in summer. 😂
Enphase inverters... what an installation! Just imagine you need to replace the one at the back of the stack. You have to remove 20 nuts before you get there.
Dumb Government: Quick, we need a solar project to virtue signal.
Platio: We'd love to help but EEVBlog will rip us a new one again.
Dumb Government: What? Who? We need those panels, how much?
Platio: Well in that case sign right here.
Rinse and repeat.
Dumb Government: Quick, we run out space. Let's build new polders.
Platio: Well, We are ready at your service.
EEVBlog: I've ALWAYS been ready...
They are not stupid.. just corrupted. Look into connections and i'm willing to be money Platio has connections to politicians that agreed to this bullshit and is giving kickback ie bribing the politicians or their relatives are working on Platio, or out right just own stock on Platio....
"Solar fricken disco dance floors" Now there's an idea Dave LOL!
Great idea... recover energy wasted on lighting....
Put them in every office building
I bet the 705 panels they are installing on the roofs at work are a better solution, maybe let's put them where they won't be blocked from the sun!
You are guaranteed to win that bet based on basic laws of engineering.
But that would be missing the point. You can't see them on flat roofs.
@@Chris-rg6nm Luckily you can see them fairly close to the buildings they are on and they are largeish panels, plus they currently have a sign attached to the scaffolding explaining what's happening.
All of our sites in the SW are supposedly getting them and it makes a lot of sense. Most of the year they'll probably be just supplying us with power but that might change in the winter when we are fully/partially closed.
@@dglcomputers1498I'd not say 'just' - every kWh you generate for yourself is a kWh not needed to be generated elsewhere in the grid / freed up to be used by someone else...
@@michaeltempsch5282 Quite, it should also save us money in the long run. With a bar/resturant, owners bar, entertainment venue, amusements, indoor and outdoor pool, just over 700 caravans, a touring area plus all the supporting stuff (computers, HVAC Etc.) we do use a lot of power.
The efficiency of the CELL MAY be 21.8% but the MODULE is 16.8%, The efficiency of the Pv module is based on the area of the MODULE and not the cell. If they can't get the basics right they might as well leave us in peace.
Oh and let’s see the efficiency in a year from now. Solar cell efficiency falls nonlinearly with occultation. Even some dirt and pitting on the surface will decrease output more than what would linearly follow just from additional absorption in the top of the tile.
Oh. Forgot. Shadowing by pedestrians will be a big problem if there’s reasonable foot traffic there too. And some people may come over specifically to see the novelty for themselves.
That weekly output we saw was, I bet, with barriers all around it and no people walking on top.
But sure a cool way to get those sweet sweet EU funds while wasting everyone’s time and consuming resources we’re supposed to save…
The ones I've liked for these "innovative solutions", are classic PV panels used as shade structures.
At least those are adding a secondary passive benefit (the shade) rather than being negatively affected by shadows thrown by people/cars/patio fences etc.
[edit] Oh, reached the end of the video, you found those already :D
Did you see that each of those small tiles weighs 6.5kg at 35x35cm? A standard panel weighs 5-10kg per 1m square. That's almost 9x less weight. 9x less material. Not counting the construction under the tiles.
All shadows of people, parked cars, houses, trees, tree leafes, snow
So, we have run out of homes and factories to cover in solar panels? Every carpark has a roof and is covered in panels? No? Then what the hell are we doing putting solar panels in some of the worst possible places?
I can't help it, but when "solar raods" are mentioned, the Holman Steam Locomotive comes to my mind. That was also a "great" idea to improve the grip of locomotive wheels on the tracks. Sounds great in the first minute but turns out that it doesn't work.
Such ideas have been around since centuries and there are still people falling for it. Radium toothpaste anyone...?
I can't believe their w*nky plugs are slightly bigger than our British Type G plugs and receptacles! Crazy! And I thought we had the biggest and baddest plugs in the world. Psh!
So that German Schuko plugs fit without an adapter and don't annoy the Germans in the hotel, what's the point :-)
I think that those pavers still make more energy than their previous project, the solar subway trains.
It would be interesting to see a cost comparison of the Solar Roof Cycle Path versus regular Solar Roof installation.
I just love Dave's rants for some reason
You forgot to subtract the price for the concrete tiles... 😂
The average yearly capacity factor of solar in the Netherlands is 8%, and you get most of that on summer and almost nothing on winter when they need it the most to not freeze.
You know what they do in certain cities? They build pergolas under which people can park dozens of cars and shield them from the scorching hot sun.
Guess what they use for the pergolas? That's right. Solar panels. Above ground. Can you imagine? 😂
Why not put the solar panels on a roof to avoid shadows from the building? That way you could put them on an angle too for even more solar power.
A more innovative way to support inovation:
Install pictures of the roofs by the walkway, where people can see them.
According to the Platio site it is on the "Kolenkade" but there is no such street on the map of Groningen !
So where is it ?
oh wow i love this. always need to check in on your channel for these!~
Thank you very much Dave.
What if they took this solar technology and put it in dedicated panels?? Is there a Kickstarter for that???
😂 i was sure they gave up after the last vids. Such a stubborn guys. Or should I say thieves 😅
If the government keeps giving you money would you stop taking it?
@@EEVblog this is sad.. and awful. Just think, for how many other non-tech fields government spend money and actually nobody can question the outcome.
@@e74av You can question the outcome, but hardly anyone bothers to go the effort to do so.
@@EEVblog and on top of that, we don't' even appreciate and support those who do as much as needed.
They may be from recycled materials but from the pictures they don't seem very recyclable when a cement mixture is used
Never mind that cement is so CO2 heavy to make…
Me: OMG not another SFR video, I cant watch another one.
Also me: watches anyway.
The idea that refuses to go away.
For the nth time.
The main problem is that even if these installations were to be as efficient as rooftop solar, most people don't realize that the bulk of the total cost is going to be cost of maintenance of the systems as well as the ancillary systems required to properly monitor and operate the setup.
For context, I've worked on a tender several years back (on the IT side of things as part of a large consortium) for massive rooftop solar projects called by the local government here in Asia and the numbers are quite telling.
The tender called for a installation and maintenance of 70MWp output from 1,400+ solar array installations with minimum 85GWh generation guaranteed for the 1st year - with degradation to 80% of nominal output at the end of 20 years.
Our estimates put the project at a cost of about $50 million upfront (about $10 million goes to the other misc. systems & services like IT networking infrastructure, IOT monitoring systems, backend hub datacenter equipment etc) along with an annual maintenance contract of about $13 million per year to keep the systems running at the required outputs.
This was a grid-tied setup (without batteries) and even if we average out the allowable degradation and at the electrical tariffs at the point in time which the system could 'sell' the electricity back to the grid, the entire setup would only provide about $13.3 million per year of sold electricity to the grid.
This means that the $310 million total investment would only give a returns of $6 million after 20 years (1.9% ROI after 20 years) if the government does not even need to pay their own staff to manage the maintenance vendor. The only way the tender would even make any monies was to actually lease out the use of the installed IOT infrastructure to other agencies.
E.g. Urban planning agencies to run IOT ambient sensors (light & noise pollution), environmental agencies to run sensors to detect issues with sewage drains, town councils to run sensors to detect refuse collection points sensors to optimize garbage truck runs to reduce costs etc.
They did eventually go ahead with these series of projects (this was just one of many phases to cover about 20,000 rooftops in total) since the justification wasn't so much to save/ generate money but just a go green(er) initiative since we don't have the natural resources or land space to have any other alternatives for 'clean' renewable energy (hydro, nuclear, wind etc.) and have solely relied on fossil fuels to generate power locally.
Are they stuck to the road? If not they might disappear in the middle of night.
They also make a great chess board.
the resale value is zero, nobody is going to take these
@@marcogenovesi8570
The copper in the wire has value.
@@marcogenovesi8570f you had a way of shipping stuff cheaply to Africa of India then you would quickly realize that everything has a resale value. The only question is whether it is above or below the costs of ripping it apart and getting it to your customers. If the solar panels can be easilly separated from the stupid boxes and protective glass then even if it is a one time deal of a few hundreds of theese then still some guys in China will welcome them with open arms. The smart guys will snap together some nice cheap commercial solar panels out of them and AliExpress will deliver them to multiple happy customers!
I'm going to arrange something with my Romani friends, they have a few tricks to teach me, don't really care if it's going to be sold or not, it's showtime. 🫠
Wow! 55,000KWh per year! That's enough energy in one year to power 47 houses for one day! Wait...
Groenigen is just 40min to drive for me... gotta check it out myself lol, ridiculous 3:33 all the roofs infront of the walkway are not yet populated with panels.... omg, you can ripp off these idiots way to easy
BEWARE ❗
The solar pavement is supposed to be in Groningen, NOT Groeningen.
Groeningen is a small hamlet in Limburg, Groningen (city) is more than 250 km to the north . . .
Please post a video!
Probably could've completely populated all the adjacent roofs for the cost of this crap and gotten significantly more power in the process
3:22 Funny how the wall behind is fully illuminated while the solar cells are full of shadow from the people and surrounding objects.
And then Winter comes and puts snow on that pavement... Curious how long will it last
Hardly any snow in Winter in the Netherlands, no danger here. But any usual road dirt, chewing gum and any kind of casted shadow will ruin the power output.
"My viewers in the Nether Regions"? Lol, Dave!
how many mate cycles is that gigantic connector rated for?
The politician always gets to press a big button at the turn on ceremony. One day I'd like to see one turn up only for a grumpy engineer to hand over a ten-page pre-start checklist and say "If you want to turn it on, do it right."
Hi mate, Ive sent you my essay which explains absolutely everything. It's all about Holland, home of the slave traders, inventors of corporations, insurance, futures trading, and the renewables scam. It's laundering money. They also invented Bitcoin that released at a Dutch hacking convention in 2009, I was living there and I'm half Dutch
you forget one thing in the calculations which is the cleaning cost as the derbies, shoe rubber and drink spillage plus any other stuff that will accumulate on top of these tiles; as well it will decrease the output power even more (+ the shadow effect). I guess there will not be any ROI or even negative cash flow due to operation and maintenance costs.
I have the next idea for solar panels that will save the planet:
UNDERGROUND SOLAR PANELS
Solar roadways/pavements is like Sherry Lewis’ ending song to her children’s show.
Like the song that never ends, these flipping solar boondoggles never stop…
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot!
How is it possible to get 2.5KW/h per square meter if the approximate power that the sun radiates per square meter is 1380 W?
isnt the roof top array 11 times more economical?
What if you have roof to install ?? Then what you do? Do you have a solution??
If yo put the solar panels on top of cars on the parking lot the get all the sun and shade the cars preventing them from getting hot. If you put it on the ground the cars block the panels. That makes no sense.
i`m from the Netherlands (thanks for not saying Holland) and clearly this video has not enough ranting in it, furthermore i just want to see what this will do when its going below zero degrees celsius, can we skate on it then.
I love this video`s and busting these solar initiatives.
Notice on the street view there's a shadow of the building over where the panels would be.
As long as not EVERY available roof, parking lot etc... are covered with solar panels there is just no sense in putting them elsewhere (huge solarfarms and farm field solar being exceptions because of obvious reasons)
That DaveCad looks pretty high tech.
NNow see, if this could had just been a solar roof for an exiting walkway as a rain shield in an area with much sun exposure, this wouldn't be _so_ bad. But they put it in the ground. And with it, as well any prospect of it working well.
Is it just the camera angle or are those tiles really opaque?
If cars don't drive over them, that does make them more reasonable at least.
This is our Dutch government employees at work. So proud! #Not
@@Look_What_You_Didyou smell like a socialist shitheel
They should try a landmine installation. It doesn't produce power, but can permanently eliminate sources of carbon pollution.
Just build a normal patio (covered like a carport) and put solar panels on it. Best of both worlds. You get the good efficiency of the normal PVs and also get some shade. I guess in northern places they don't want to build things for shade because it's always cold. But in hot climates shade is a good thing and solar power is a nice bonus.
I'm literally doing just that. Building a pergola using 4 harbor freight panels, a battery pack and inverters.
People are so infatuated by these new fads that they go for anything that says sustainable, solar or green ...... but they don't think or even know
how things work, therefore they go along and get duped...!!! Great work.
But tell us how you _really_ feel about the pavement. Heheh... great rundown - thumbs up.
Hey Dave, that s here in the Netherlands. It is not around the corner to view the project 😂
This shit keeps on coming, and it's equally hilarious as watching stuff about hydrogen.
Remember the solar walkway in Sandpoint, Idaho?
How about the 1 kilometre of solar road in France?
How long we gonna wait until someone 'invents' roof solars
Agree I'll support it 100% when we run out of roof tops
Not saying it's a great idea, but does the offset of recycled plastic help of you compare it to installing fresh concrete?
Not really, because recycled plastic isn't exactly known for its durability when it comes to heat, UV, and the outdoors in general.
I suspect their claims of using recycled plastic might be BS
Reportedly this installation is supposed to cost 400 000 Euros, where the city pays about 1/4 of that and the EU pays the rest.
As a citizen of an EU country, I'm happy to see the money collected from our taxes is put to do real work as is the case here
@@marcogenovesi8570 The point is… this money is wasted in an absolutely egregious manner. For the same price you could get sooo much more solar energy over the lifetime of good old rooftop panels.
@@absurdengineering yes I know, I was being sarcastic
What is their obsession with walking / driving on the Solar panels!?
So, the city of Groningen spent 110K euros on it. The project cost 400K, but the rest was subsidized.
They blundered the article: it's 55,000 Wh (54,696, to be exact), not 55,000 *KWh.*
what program does Dave use on his Dave cad notes?
i am still not 100% unsold on alternative solar installations, but the thing I really worry about with these solar walk ways is how long is it before someone gets electricuted by a faulty install.
5million grant? They ONLY require 4.99 million to test the feasibility?
I got a monorail for sale any takers?
Monoraaail, monoraaail, monoraaail!
is it in a tunnel kept in a vacuum? I don't buy monorails out in the open
The ring came off my pudding can.
As someone who lives in Groningen and follows some solar stuff, i didn't even know about this....
So at least 10 times more expensive than rooftop solar, but how does it compare to tiles?
I'm still waiting for solarpanels on sea... suggested it a few times now Dave 😊
I think I've showed the wreckage of some of those on previous videos.
still makes more sense. least you could move the farms for emergency use to some place that needs power. ..after the typhoon has passed.
@@lasskinn474 The problem with putting them on the sea is protecting them from said sea.
@@InfernosReaper well yeah you wouldn't need to keep them there for years on end. just deploy from some ships suitable for storing shipping containers in a way they could be accessed, , fit in modules 0.5 meters high and you'd fit 120-110 square meters of panel with space left over for cables. have the battery pack containers on land. point being emergency deployment to some island or coastal area that got wrecked, the point wouldn't be optimal operation or angles or like that at all, just quick mass deployment and not needing to unload the cargo onto land in the disaster area which is the only thing the sea makes sense for in most of the world.
later let the locals tow them to land if they figure out a place on land for them so they can maintain them
Solar panels on lakes can actually work though. The panels work a bit better because the water can provide cooling, and the panels can go on 'land' that is otherwise unproductive. There are no rough seas on a lake, so the support platform is just plastic floats and aluminium frame.
These grifts are the gifts that keep on giving.
The grifts that keep on griving.
"The grifts that keep on grifting"
You were so close, it was right there.
@@SDMasterYoda I went with "griving" to keep the parallelism to "giving".
The dude at 2:35 is worked for Wizzair as chief supply officer, but got fired because of secret stock trading for approximately a year and a half. He is looking for opportunities to make big bucks.
Andras Sebok, maybe Sam Friedman's cousin hehe 😉
This is why when you subsidize stuff they get MORE expensive. This is the reason why shampoo needs instructions printed on it!
Yet another reason why we need to get Lead out of the water supply 😂
Oh look a stadium in the area, that'll be a good place for some panels.
The 21% efficiency is pretty much the only number you need to know it's not going to be worth it, the rest is just icing on the cake 😂
That's the normal efficiency for solar panels.
I will start a company for those "innovative solutions". I will tell companies to put solar panels on roofs and maybe to make a shed for smokers with solar panel roof. Or walking corridor to public transport.
I’m completely on board with this but you can’t just point at a roof and say put them there. We’ve tried that and the engineering cost to deal with loads and the cost/potential for flat root installations to leak can make it totally intractable. New buildings? Sure.
They could've put in a walkway overhead shelter, even a narrow one so to keep costs down then put solar panels on the roof. You get shelter from the rain/snow and solar power when the sun is shining. Cost would be minimal too.
It's baffling to me that this is still going.
That’s where I went wrong. I was proposing logical solutions, not innovative solutions.
Sometimes I feel ashamed to be Dutch.
At least you guys are not hated by everyone around you as we Germans are.
As Dave has highlighted governments (and grifting businesses) are doing this all over the world. All we can do is call it out - maybe in the era of social media there's a chance more people will find out it doesn't make sense and stop wasting money on it.
Same here, I left the Netherlands even. I have to go back unfortunately, but man did it change for the worse in the last 20-30 years.
I think the French have come up with the best option. Required all new car parks have a roof with Solar panels on it. A known, reliable technology. The downside is it doesn't attract huge amounts of venture capital. You could do this to new roads, which would offer the advantage that the roof would offer some protection from the noise of the road for the local population.
It is "SOLAR FREAKIN ROADWAY`S"
Let's put solar on the walkways, and let's make people walk around on the rooftops. THEN it will be truly an upside-down world.
It's still beyond me why we don't have solars all over our parking lots in the UK, so many are just sitting there with no cover and lots of wasted space where solar could go...
and what happens when 2 months after install, the local gas or phone company need to dig up the footpath for repairs to their infrastructure.