Peggy is a character who's actually been pretty connected to queer characters during the run of KOTH. An important part of her back story as it develops in the course of the show is that she didn't lose her virginity to Hank - she gave it to her friend who thought he was gay. When relating the story to Luanne, Luanne asks "and did that fix him" and Peggy says "Oh no, Luanne, he was not broken, he was just gay." A surprisingly progressive and positive outlook for a woman raised the way she was, where she was, and when she was.
Very, very gay... It's the rare joke where being gay is a punchline that isn't played to be offensive, and obviously as one gay man I can't speak for all of us but I always found it hilarious. And like you said it's a really simple and short but progressive attitude for Peggy, a Texan woman, to have about the situation.
Her husband also went into defense of Dale’s dad and gay people when Bill and Boohhamer were mocking gay men. I watched that episode as a kid and it made me learn that there are people that lean conservative in the south who aren’t anti-LGBT
@@Wonderoddityyes but also no that show takes a lot if conservatism at face value and when it gets challenged on he show its misrepresented in very bad strawmans like the episode were Bobby learns about colonialism and slavery in the americas by the teacher who is is portrayed as a very right wing depiction of liberals "indoctrinating kids" ,and at the end if the episode hank tells Bobby basically yeah we stole they land and killed them ppl so what it's history now we don't need to worry about that"let the past be the past " type energy , in this episode the indigenous character talked about the colonialism his peoppe went through and it was basically washed over by them saying but your ethnic group did spiritual cannibalism , which they haven't done in legit centuries going back 500 years ago , they end it with this well every ethnic group has done somtjing bad so we cant be mad at americans who still oppress indigenous ppl to this day ( they did say that last oart but you get my drift lol)this is the same colonizer rhetoric the Spanish conquistadors used with the aztecs even tho what they have done to Latin America in comparison would never in a million years be seen as the same level of evilness , this show is made for conservative leaning American at he end of the day particularly white ones so I would be lying to say I'm surprised they portray colonialism and slavery like this.
Honestly, the look on Peggy’s face when she realizes Clarissa‘s closet sells size 16 shoes and that they have a variety of size 16 pumps for her to wear is so heartwarming
Not just that, but the complete lack of judgement from the clerk. There's no knowing smirk, no derisive, "Back of the store in the corner," no snickering or odd looks. Just a warm, welcoming smile and gesture. She'd probably never experienced that reaction to telling the clerk her shoe size in her life.
Honestly the thing about the larger shoe sizes is spot on. I wear a size 11.5 women's US, and it's so hard to find anything that I like, so I can't even imagine how bad Peggy would have it.
@@RubyH4rt women's 12 here. The worst part I find is width. I have an average size width foot for my length, when you use the measuring do-dad at the show store. But it seems like almost all dress shoes either assume that feet just get longer and not wider as you go up in size, OR they assume if your feet are long they must be exceptionally wide as well. So I either can't get my feet in at all, or they're falling off.
Hank is adorable in this episode. I also love how Caroline is presented as pretty, but she doesn’t look like a cis woman. King of the hill’s art style really works in this episode.
As a Cis woman who's struggled with her femininity and being mocked for more "masculine" traits, I love the last scene clothes swap. Because it's true to life that Peggy didn't need to change anything about how she presented herself, she just needed better friends.
I think this is the only show I’ve seen with the reversal of a trans reveal. Instead of a cishet person realizing Caroline was trans it was Caroline realizing Peggy wasn’t. I wish Caroline appeared more after this because this is one of my favorite episodes
@@shoutuckerdidnothingwrongStill being triggered about basic words. Cisgender Heterosexual is a completely fine way to identify but you're not normal for identifying that way. You're just human.
@@shoutuckerdidnothingwrong It is far more similar than you think, and whilst race may be an inherent thing that can be visibly observed; racism and all that includes is entirely a social construct, just like all bigotry
@@shoutuckerdidnothingwrong Sex doesnt bcuz intersex ppl exist and our sexes are denied at birth based on visible physical signs, even if our actual sex cud be discerned with testin
First off, one of the drag queens at the clothes swap is dressed as Frida Kahlo (the one with the flower crown). Even though no one working on the episode was LGBTQ+ that we know of, either someone brought in others who were to help and was uncredited, or they did A LOT of their own research. I can't imagine how they were able to put so many hints to Caroline's identity in a surprisingly aged well way otherwise. But more importantly, I like to think this episode is less about Caroline directly, and more a way for people unfamiliar or uncomfortable with LGBTQ+ people to see through our lenses. Using Peggy as a way of saying "You struggle with a lot of similar fears without realizing. They just get more hate for it and deal with it in a different way. If you show you're willing to learn and accept them, they'll do the same for you." I think we need more stories like this that flip the roles in a respectful way to open the eyes of those that would turn their nose up at more direct stories.
@@godrickstockwell1505 I'm still learning more about her myself, but she was more open about it compared to most, as she does have some paintings inspired by past girlfriends. She was also known to paint about gender expression and cross dressing, so seeing a drag queen dress as her is very fitting. Again, I'm still learning just how much she did, so while I can't point you to examples off the top of my head, I for sure encourage you to look into it too if you wanna see for yourself.
Honestly this is why KOTH is so great. A lot of comedy would either ridicule Peggy or Caroline, depending on what the political standpoint of the writers is. Instead the show portrays the often hilarious confusion, when kind hearted and good people try to understand the wildly different worlds they live in.
It would’ve been sweet if Caroline showed up again. It was nice seeing Peggy with a friend who she’s friends with out of actual bonding and not just being neighbors.
If you think "Caroline's Closet" was a bit on-the-nose, my Mum once accidentally went into a store named "Transitions" not realizing the target demographic for it
@@jinx7641 I know that having the word "Closet" in it could read queer by proxy, obviously. It's just that I know a few shops that have the word closet in them in my neighborhood that aren't exclusively gay. And the name Clarissa doesn't really make me think of queerness.
Carolyn immediately getting really nervous and scared when finding out Peggy's cis and thus her and her husband aren't necessarily queer friendly killed me. If the writers didn't consult queer people for this, they are EXTREMELY informed all on their own. Side note: I don't live in a conservative state thankfully, but Jamie/Carolyn really resonated with me as a genderfluid person who doesn't really explain my situation to people regardless how I'm presenting, unless they ask about something relevant to it, even though I'm very open and out. It's a very weird worrying feeling when someone assumes you're cis when you're presenting the opposite.
Im kinda shocked by the claim they didnt, bcuz usually an ep like this wudve involved GLAAD; even back then, and that is usually why these good eps from the more progressively inclined shows are oft so well done... given the time period they were made in ofc I cudnt find any evidence this ep did have GLAAD support but its not a rly easy thing to find out with just cursory googling as i did; thats smth you have to do deep delves into history of things to figure out usually...
@@SylviaRustyFae it's very hopium pilling to think they did this of their own volition without a sponsor or trans/GNC writers or consultants on board. Like they just either have known enough queer people or have enough empathy and sense to do this well all on their own. Honestly I can't even count the terminology and identities of the characters seeming jumbled against them. Sometimes people just aren't PSA simple. Sometimes someone who lives as a woman isn't going to have the terminology or understanding to call themselves trans, and it's neat to show that people can still be accepting and not phobic while lacking that knowledge.
@@Lanoira13 I cud totes see just one of them havin queer friends and tryin to make a story and jumblin things a bit; without input. But it seems less likely than the chance they did have help and its just not clearly listed anywhere; and the vid is as always, a product of its time
Mike Judge's whole *thing* is subcultures. Go through the whole king of the hill catalog and many episodes are "Hank, Peggy, or Bobby are confronted by or involved with people in a subculture or niche hobbyists and the episode is an honest if not necessarily flattering portrayal of them". Like this episode with Caroline is very pro LGBT and also pro drag before the penetration and popularity of drag in the mainstream, but Witches of East Arlen was a scathing mockery of loser dark fantasy wickan larpers (or, you know what I mean, they're a clearly identifiable subgroup even if they don't have an easily identifiable group name self declared or otherwise). It's a very 00s show, because the information age has sort of radically diluted and trivialize subcultures because the internet and social media allows non members to rapidly learn about and adopt a subcultures basic elements even if they aren't participants. Basically in the modern day it's really easy to be a poser.
It's pretty sad that Caroline and the other ladies don't turn up again - Peggy really found community in them, it would've been nice if they became regulars, Caroline at the very least.
theres a lot of characters or plot/storylines they just cut off completely to a lot of my disappointment lol. like one of the bigger ones is they HAD to keep bill lonely & pathetic so they just never acknowledged laoma again
@@lucasdude Dude that one woman he dated that genuinely liked him and he was a good dad figure to her two kids, only for Dale to butt in because he found out the daughter and Joseph are half siblings and therefore was 'his daughter' (AKA John Redcorn's) and he refused to have her raised by Bill, so he talked Redcorn into seducing the woman like- not even the characters want Bill to be happy But, that _did_ help prevent a weird near-incest plot since Joseph was starting to bond a bit too close to the girl (his half-sister)
I really like that Carolyn helps Peggy connect with her womanhood. It shows that womanhood isn’t a set experience, like Carolyn’s mom said real women aren’t just biological women.
As a US queer person, Clarissa's Closet does not read as immediatly obvious tbh. My state has a whole chain of clothes resellers called Plato's Closet.
@@rrrrthats4rs 🤔 nah, it's more common to just say coming out, but I still hear people specifically reference being closeted so I don't know how dated it is. I just also don't think it's something where people take it to mean that in every context, particularly in the south a couple decades ago.
@Jack-px8lf yeah... you're literally replying to a comment where I say that I live in the US and there's lots of places with closet in their name... I've literally never heard the Clarissa part reference queer stuff, so I'm pretty sure closet was where the video was going with that [shrug].
I’m not sure if this has been confirmed but I believe that Clarissa’s Closet isn’t just an on the nose name- it’s a reference to a real store, Janet’s Closet in Wyandotte Michigan. My ears perked up when I heard the name but I figured it may be a coincidence, but when I saw the purple cursive logo for Clarissa’s Closet, the reference was clear. Janet’s Closet is the largest “cross-dressing store” (their site’s wording) in the world and they’ve been around since 1999. The owner, Janet, is a trans woman who drives around in a bright purple car. Also there’s a really cool cat who lives in the store. If I’m right and it is a reference to Janet’s, I’m surprised that it was made by a group of straight writers because it seems like a very specific deep cut.
And here I was speculating above that the reference maybe wasn't "Clarissa" or "Closet" but something else, like "Clarissa's Closet" being known as THE store in Texas for drag queens or something (at least on the show). I could've scrolled down here and saved myself some time! Thanks for sharing this info. Maybe those straight writers had some not-straight friends. Judge went to Uni in California, after all.
KOTH Is one of the few shows that has aged surprisingly well. Perfect? No, but nothing is. It's arguably the first well known example of using wholesomeness as the whole shtick, and exploring kindness through comedy. I'm not at all surprised it's one of the few shows from a largely cishet perspective that actually handled a queer topic with grace.
KOTH was always good at laughing at people's antics and shortcomings, but rarely at people themselves. For the era that it aired, that wasn't common in a lot of comedy.
"cause you know... the love". They all mean well and are slowly stumbling their way into healthy, looser expressions of emotion and gender roles. It ages well because they're all growing past a lot of that terrible social crap (and the nightmare that is Cotton). This really was the good part of the 90s, that push to break down rigid gender roles. They did a heck of a job tying in that very 90s empowering womanhood concept to these characters.
That's true! I rewatched it with a friend last year and while the first season made me feel like it was going to be rough... but watched all together it comes off as the story of Hank Hill growing past his own traumas and becoming more accepting with time as he raises Bobby who, while probably hetero or bi, is loud and flamboyant in a lot of ways. By comparison, the Futurama rewatch I started right around then too felt very mean-spirited and at times dated.
It helps that the places it hasn't aged great in tend to either be intentionally pointing out this is wrong and parodying middle american mindsets, or is minor enough that even if it isn't correct, it's still respectable.
There's an episode where they accidentally let a sex worker stay at the house. She encourages Peggy to dress more feminine and some background character makes a transphobic comment about Peggy's feet. As a trans woman who's like 5'5" and with women's (US) size 8 shoes, I'd be less likely to be targeted with that then someone like Peggy. Because transphobia doesn't just hurt trans women, nor is it meant too. It's used to mock any women, cis or trans, for not adhering to patriarchal standards. This show actually understands that pretty damn well. Where as other shows often depict transphobia as just mocking queer people for being different.
I often think of the cis women who have PCOS and grow more body / facial hair than the average cis woman. Hell, before my transition, I was a "hairy girl" and more self conscious about it because in my head it made it more obvious that I was "supposed to be a boy". There's butch lesbians who look more like a teen hearthrob than a 30 year old woman. They get picked on for being "trans"... even though they are cis women. It really is about controlling women and how they are 'allowed' to present as women. They just don't want them to feel comfortable in their bodies, cis OR trans. :(
@@needaccount94 He calls her a man and makes a joke about trans surgeries, it's explicitly transphobia. All your comment shows is you don't watch King of the Hill
While I am pulling from memory, I'll do my best to add the exchange here for context. Peggy and the sex worker who's name eludes me atm enter a library dolled up super femme. The camera focuses on two random background guys. Guy1: "Check out the feet on that one (Peggy), got to be a man." Guy2: "Nah look, no Adam's Apple!" Guy: "They got surgeries to fix that now"
I've heard of people that pay good money to just look at size 16 feet. I never really understood what the big deal is, but I might be more of a Hank myself.
@@tortamenta8953There is actually another KotH episode in which Peggy is taken advantage of by a shady guy who puts pictures of her feet on a fetish website. Unfortunately I don’t recall the details of the episode’s resolution so I don’t know how much it got into similar exploration of her societal gender expectations as this one did
27:47 This is probably the only trans-related gag in a TV sitcom I genuinely laughed to, the fact that you completely know what happened on the other end of the line is killing me
I am not a trans woman but just a very tall cis woman and I relate hardcore on the shoes thing. Plus transphobia from assholes who tell me I “must be a man” due to my height alone, even though I am extremely feminine. Transphobia affects cis people too!
I feeeeeeel. I'm a cis woman who's 6' 4" and I've been this height since I was like 13/14 and wear a size 13 shoe. My whole life I've always had people question me on my gender identity or make assumptions and legitimately argue with me about it when I politely correct them. It doesn't happen nearly as often nowadays thankfully but I hate that some people can't just respect other people's identity, regardless of what it might be
@@dreamsprayanimation theres a certain, often arbitrary amount of height before you are considered 'manly' for being tall. just like how theres a certain amount of huskiness/depth your voice is allowed to have before its no longer sexy. patriarchy, and by extension beauty standards, are contradictory and often serve to isolate people who either too enthusiastically embrace them or don't embrace them enough (or, in this case, people who are just not born perfectly in the acceptable boundaries of femininity)
Season 9 Episode 5 I think is also worth a mention. The DMV issues Hank a new driver's license with a F stamp on sex. He ends up being treated badly on his quest to update it back to as it should reflect. This isn't trans rep in any way, but I do think it can be window to the cosmic horror that is fighting the bureaucracy that trans folks tend to be so familiar with. If a trans perspective is considered at all, I think it could serve to illuminate those that haven't had to fight to be acknowledged in that way.
That episode has hank utter the line (in regards to his genitals) "Can't you tell the difference between the ones made by God and ones jerry-rigged out of a toe and some old skin?" Which, personally, I find to be a little transphobic from the main character we are meant to be rooting for.
Something I feel like people forget about king of the hill is the neighbors might be conservative Texans, but if the opportunity presents itself, they can grow because they are able to find common ground. One episode had hank support a farm to table store because the steaks were more tasty and lovingly prepared than at the megalo mart. I could buy Peggy accepting Carolyn for being a drag queen without it seeming out of character. If you have the time, totally recommend the episode where Peggy starts to do feet videos!
Hank may be a conservative, but he is consistently shown as having no problems with other orientations/identities. Earlier episode had him unknowingly inside a gay rodeo searching for someone and despite how openly gay and camp it was Hank didn't seem to think amything was weird and even enjoying himself a bit until the last part, which had a guy chasing a goat to slip panties onto it as an event which was the only thing that seemed to gross him out. When he finds the man he was looking for he is shown to be uncomfortable not with the gay but with the camp that he doesn't seem to understand at all. Also is quick to deny that he himself is gay. In contrast to his friends who act completely immature and mocking about gays while Hank straightforward reprimands them. Really only thing I can recall him being slightly prejudiced about is when his driver's license incorrectly lists him as female and his son Bobby says that would technically make him amd Peggy lesbians to which Hank quickly replies with "that's it! The cable is gone!" Like he thinks his 13 year old son is to know about such things or maybe just a sort of 'we don't talk about these things publicly' mentality
He kind of reminds me of my grandpa in that way. I was scared to come out to him as trans and he’s very quiet so I don’t know what he actually thinks but he respects me enough to be like “ok I don’t understand it but do what you want with your life” he still deadnames me but for someone who is very brainwashed by Fox News i was expecting a lot worse. And compared to the rest of my family. I know he cares about me he just doesn’t understand how to express it which is rough but I’m grateful for him trying
I don’t think that was necessarily out of bigotry tho. I don’t think Hank feels comfortable talking about literally anyone else’s relationships. Lol or even his own, for that matter.
Funny anecdote about this episode, as a 10 year old kid when I saw this I didn't understand what was going on at all and thought that Hank actually did know what was going on (because he was the one adult in the show who had his shit together) and that it was just an unspoken rule of politeness and manners to act like Hank did around people like Carolyn (i.e. treating each gender presentation like their own person). Keep in mind, I did not know what drag was, that gay people existed, that being transgender was an option, etc. I just saw 'Oh, Carolyn's Jaime sometimes, cool'. Anyway turns out I'm autistic
This exactly. I watched King of the Hill almost every night as a kid, along with a lot of The Simpsons, Futurama, etc. I saw these 'trans episodes' countless times but never really got what they were supposed to be about as I had never known about being queer or trans. Granted, I'm transmasc, but I just assumed that these characters were women, or that they, like Carolyn, had different personas. It's kind of weird to see so many stories of how these shows helped people discover their identities because the concepts just never transferred over for me. I guess that's just what it's like to grow up ftm and autistic.
Tbh I thought something similar, ie, Hank was trying to be respectful & allow everyone to maintain their identities. There are quite a number of episodes where Hank overlooks or goes along with something that 1 might expect an ignorant country person to mock or get angry at.
@@phoneheaded Im transfemme and autistic and all this shit always flew over my head too. Like i knew trans was a thing but i didnt connect it with most these eps and i def didnt rly understand how trans worked... So i didnt think i was trans Until i met in person another nonbinary person, and then a second nonbinary person at that same weekend LARP event heh; suddenly a lot clicked and i did a deep delve and came out by the end of the yr heh. And suddenly these things all made a lot more sense to me heh
Same here. I'm not autistic but I didn't really pay that much attention to most "adult" media. I saw it as boring unless it was a horror movie/show or a sitcom. Hell, I used to watch Will and Grace when it originally aired and it took me a while to figure out that Jack and Will were gay. I just thought they were weird grownups
I love your interpretation of it as a kid, because like, while it's not actually what happened, it should be how people act with it. If someone says they're something, it should be respected. :)
As much crap as Peggy gets from the KOTH fandom (sometimes rightfully), I love that she’s even more open minded than Hank in many ways. She always supports Bobby when he’s doing something considered abnormal for a boy, and she’s open minded to other cultures and ways of life. Even when she says something rude, I get the feeling she’s genuinely just tone deaf and ignorant and says things she doesn’t realize are not okay to say. Granted, she also falls into the pitfalls of acting like she knows more about other cultures despite not being a part of them. Like the episode where she says the Mexican customers don’t speak very good spanish when she works at a call center and she’s taking calls from Mexico. Lol
It's interesting how Hank is a southern conservative but managed to have far more professive and open-minded perspectives on gay and transgender people, even defending gay people without hesitation when they were being laughed at by Bill and Boomhaumer, than liberal characters like Brian or some South Park characters who in contrast had absolutely abominable and regressive reactions to the concept of trans people.
I suppose the difference is that regardless of his political views, Hank is a good person willing to learn and change. Brian from Family Guy regardless of his political views is an awful person.
Absolutely fantastic analysis. Everything Brian does is cynical calculation dedicated to bolstering his social standing. He's a perfect representation of a mainstream liberal that deep down believes absolutely nothing. I have a theory that the character shift in Brian from moral center to soulless liberal was a conscious decision on MacFarlane's part because Brian represents a part of who he (MacFarlane) was when he originally created the character, and he really hates it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the character that begun as an honest-to-god moral grandstander had the voice that was closest to Seth's natural speaking voice.
Hank's an old school conservative Texan, the kind who probably voted for LBJ and is more "not my business" oriented versus overtly bigoted. He's flawed but a good person. They exist. A great example IRL that comes to mind is Dallas area sports tv broadcaster Dale Hansen. He was one of the few outspoken defenders of the first openly gay player in the NFL, Michael Sam, specifically calling out how hypocritical homophobic fans and players were against him playing. He said ", "I'm not always comfortable when a man tells me he is gay; I don't understand his world. But I do understand that he is part of mine." He went on to compare the discrimination with that of racism that was in place just mere decades earlier in football. I think many of these older reasonable conservatives are fairly quiet and/or simply not around anymore, def drowned out by the much more fringe right that exist in Texas now or have drifted more left/liberal. Part of what's made KOTH so endearing is the characters are nuanced and complicated in a realistic way. It's been a trademark of Mike Judge (Office Space, Silicon Valley) and Jim Dauterive (Bob's Burgers), and Greg Daniels (Office) who all wrote on KOTH.
KOTH was (and still is) one of my favorite adult animated shows growing up. I was born in Texas so I'm probably biased but most sensitive issues were handled with tact and had a realistic approach, it was always so funny to me to see this old-soul southern family man grappling with things he's never been exposed to before. In most cases he's got a sort of "hes a little confused but hes got the spirit" vibe, and I always found it amusing. I'm a queer guy myself and always saw myself in these characters, esp bobby
as a gender queer lil fuck growing up in houston, I always appreciated the at-times domineering but overall open minded approach hank took toward bobby. I'm kinda transfemme, so watching an episode with my dad and seeing hank accept some more feminine part of bobby's character was a really nice thing to see. especially since he had a tendency to air on the 'god damnit bobby quit playing with dolls' side of things
@@パガイ I had the same experience except I’m transmasc, episodes like the one covered in this video were very important to my journey !! Thank you for sharing 😀
I remember an episode where Hank got his license messed up and it said he wasawoman, my favorite part of the episode was Peggy so proudly saying someone called her a lipstick lesbian (that's what I remember atleast)
It's a rare instance where a show with over 10 seasons has maybe like, 4 duds total? Been watching through KOTH recently and have only skipped the Ms. Wakefield episode and the dam one where Bill turns everyone against Hank
I agree with this comment. I used to suffer depression & during MDD episodes KOTH was the most comforting show to watch because it’s comedy based on kindness & wholesomeness. It’s probably 1 of the best adult animated shows to watch if u have any mood issues or struggle with being triggered by shows that either sappy or dark
This episode also contains one of my favorite jokes from the series when Peggy and Carolyn are driving and she goes "wow I can see so clearly! Why don't people always drive with their brights on?" while you can see people frantically signaling at her to turn them off
Can we talk about how this episode was basically the reverse of most 'trans discovery' episodes, where the CIS people are constantly remarking 'I wonder if she's married', or stuff, and then discover the person is trans? Also -- just from a storytelling standpoint: A++ on pacing and tension. Dramatic irony done SO well.
KotH is set in Arlen, based on Garland, a suburb of Dallas. It's definitely a thing here (or, was a thing) for many years to call a Drag Show a "Revue", for exactly the reasons you mention. Also, back in "the day", I can remember quite a few drag queens who spent most of their lives "in costume" as women. I'm sure you're right that those people would be (and probably are, those that survived) trans women. Also, Mike Judge actually lived in Garland for a few years (which is, btw, one of the most backward backwaters of an already backwards city, the Buckle On The Bible Belt), and I would expect nothing less than a nuanced and somewhat clever take on any subject from Mr Judge. People underestimate him because of Beavis and Butthead, but he's a very smart creator.
100% - Same with Office Space and Austin and other Texas cities / burbs as well. I've run into many people like Lawrence (the redneck contractor neighbor in Office Space) and yet it's a character type lacking in comparable media. "Beavis and Butthead" in hindsight was brilliant because it's just a slightly more absurd take on characters he's encountered IRL, as he's alluded to in multiple interviews. I remember David Letterman was obsessed with B&B and even introduced Mike Judge on his show as "the creator of one of the greatest cultural works of the 20th century."
Because of how great this episode treats Caroline part of me has always wondered if they kept her ambiguously queer because her biological sex is so integral and a big focus of the plot this team of cis people thought maybe it wouldn't be the best look for them to do that to a blatant trans character
While there are no trans characters, I recall that there is an episode in which Hank discovers that his birth certificate has him marked as female and Dale (newly having decided that the government is always right) believes this means that Hank must really be a woman and Hank has to go through the process of changing his gender marker, including having to prove his penis is not the result of having had bottom surgery. It's been a few years since I've seen this episode, but I think it could have some interesting (both negative and positive) messages when examined through a trans lens.
It sounds like showing the redicilousness whe testing gender marker and incredibly invasive?! Its unlikely tht was no the point?! And likelys a trasissue i would guess.
@@marocat4749I think they're saying that the King of the Hill was showing the ridiculousness of testing gender markers and it was, not coincidentally, a metaphor for The issue trans people have.
@@FrancisR420Exactly. I don't know what else they could have been trying to say with that and KOTH is a show that was pretty much always trying to say something.
Yeah that was a great episode. It was pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation. If people think it's stupid that a cis person can't get their gender listed properly on their birth certificate then they should also think it's stupid the other way.
As a cisgender heterosexual male, as I have grown up and gotten married and had to learn what a good husband is, Lily's advice is on point. Guys, if you want a good role model for who to be as a husband or father, Hank Hill is one of the single-best examples in most media. If you had a horrible dad, who was also a horrible husband, and you want to have someone to study, Hank Hill is probably the best example. As a father, finds ways to support his son in ANY of his endeavors (the modelling episode is a little off on that, but he does still do his best to support and help his son there too), even if he doesn't understand or enjoy them. As a husband, he is by and large a supportive, understanding partner, and while he has a hard time using words, he expresses it time, and time, and time again, through action. Also, he is uncomfortable sometimes, but never once if he intolerant of someone because of what they are. He judges people based on who they show themselves to be. He doesn't care if you are gay, straight, transgender....anything. He cares that you are a good person.
I enjoyed King of the Hill despite myself and while I don’t remember most episodes, this is one of the few that I think about often. I think most sitcoms write off the wife character as a nag a bch or too stupid to comprehend things. Peggy is not a dainty feminine pretty lady and I liked that the trans community in this episode admired that in her, despite how she originally saw herself. I am not trans and I present very feminine, but my femininity has always felt defined by how people saw me and not necessarily something inherent to my character. Inside I felt awkward and heavy handed and dare I say “manly” like Peggy saw herself. I’m interested to see how the trans community, or a trans person I should say, interprets the same episode.
I'm nonbinary (AFAB) and was never into feminine looks, neither did I want to dress masculine. I just wore what I wanted. I've always been very tall and didn't have a great body shape either. Perhaps because I never cared that much about trying to fit into a box defined by society, it was actually sad for me to see women having anxiety and depression because they desperately tried to change themselves to fit that femme stereotype. It's fine to be very femme if you like yourself that way. But women shouldn't be ashamed of having "masculine" traits. Neither should men for being "feminine". My personal opinion is basically "f*ck gender roles and stereotypes, we're all individuals!" but I accept that not everyone agrees with me or they feel comfortable with it. At the end of the day, all that's important is that you're comfortable in your own body and don't let others tell you who or what you should be. The definition of "womanhood" and "manhood" is vastly different depending on in which part of the world you live in. So it's fine to live by your own definition. Personally, I like this episode. It feels honest in its approach and didn't just play off offensive stereotype checklists for the laughs.
@@NoxAtlasI am comfortable being a woman but I understand that’s not everyone inside who is born into a female body. Society deems femininity as a weakness and in the same hand diminishes any woman presenting person as weak if they don’t do it right. Sexism is prevalent still.
@@private755 That's so true. I can relate to that struggle from the perspective as a nonbinary. Because society is so binary-coded regarding to genders, we're dealing with the expectation that we HAVE to represent as androgynous because anything else would make us a man or woman and if we don't commit to it, we're being accused of just faking our identity and being "attention-seeking snowflakes". Regardless of which sex you are and what your gender identify is, sexism is always present and it will never disappear as long as we exist as a species.
To be fair Peggy IS very often portrayed as being extremely lacking self awareness and in some cases perhaps not stupid but very confidently ignorant (especially in episodes centering around her tenuous grasp of the Spanish language, like the one where she accidentally abducts a Mexican child). Though it's not really a 'woman dumb' thing so much as a 'Peggy in particular has an absurdly inflated sense of self worth' thing.
@@Nuvizzletrue it’s better to have an imperfectly portrayed but more realistic fully fleshed character capable of growth than a two dimensional Mary Sue who has no flaws or a walking punchline for the sitcom menfolk to jab at
I always adored how Hank, even as stiff as he could be, simply shrugged and was like. You guys are friends. You make my wife happy. Just keep doing that And I really like that. It’s not too major but it’s enough to see the support there for everyone
Yet he starts the series as a bigot and ends the series as one. If Hank was supportive he wouldn't go off ranting against every group that's not male white Christian capitalist straight cis people. Have you even watched the series? Because Hank's tolerance is exclusively dependent on how clueless he is about someone being different from him.
The fear of shopping thing is super true for a lot of fat people, too. The judgment from those around and often the workers themselves is really hard to deal with. It's not the same as trans and other queer people face because they have the added risk of bias, but it's a reality that makes Peggy's cluelessness at that comment understandable.
7:25 "Clarissa's Closet just seems like a wierd name I guess..." Weird? Maybe it's just American cultural thing, but naming something "So-and-so's Closet" is hardly weird in Texas, it is EXTREMELY common. It even gives off a very old fashioned conservative vibe. I googled searched businesses with such names in my area (Ausitn) and no less than 15 places popped up, all looked queer-beign, maybe even queer-friendly, but none looked queer-catering or specific (which surprised me to be honest, as Austin does cater to the queen community more so than other surrounding places.) But...I found MANY shop that looked down right queer-hostile. Like overly patriotic stuff, plenty of "South-western" attire, cattle brands used as decor, Crosses, etc. Not that that stuff is anti-LGBQ specific, just that I would not be surprised if their regular shopper was the type to wear MAGA gear, and votes based on which politician he thinks will make gay marriage illegal again. Not a place I would totally feel safe in.
as a gender queer person with a mom a lot like peggy, i like this episode a lot with how peggy's emotions are expressed and how the trans/drag character reacted to her relating to queer gender at first. we both had to realize that sexism has made her feel so discouraged and disconnected with her own femininity and womanhood and its not taking anything away from me or other queer people to help her. recently my mom has started to fill her closet with dresses and heels after 40 years of feeling to masculine to wear those clothes
Just gonna say as a queer person in a small southern town, the name "Clarissa's Closet" sounds like at least 3 small cis-straight aimed boutiques I can think of in the region lol
This episode was like one of the first pieces of media I saw as a kid that didn't look down on the queer character and frankly it did a lot for me at the time. It made me feel just a tad less afraid about what I was beginning to feel about myself. Carolyn's mom honestly made me feel so good as a kid shshshss
realising i'm trans masc and seeing my friend realise she is transfemme has done more for my connection to femininity than all my years 'as a girl' ever did, and seeing peggy find comfort in her gender through connecting with *gender queer* people makes me feel more seen than any of the other shows/episodes you've spoken about tyvm
It somehow feels relevant to bring up the real life drag queen Juno Birch, who is a trans woman, but does drag. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I think it's arguably more important to just accept people for who they are and how they live than to worry about labels.
I've been rewatching this show lately. Recently watched the episode where they let a sex worker stay at their place. I was pleasantly surprised to see how well they portrayed her character as her own person and a human. It was very refreshing to see. and seeing Hank defend and support her was heartwarming.
This review made me think about how some cis women like drag because they also feel like femininity can be a performance. And yet, it's sort of taboo to let it be known that you're working at the performing? The conversation where Peggy and Caroline discuss how not to smear lipstick while eating is so supportive and kind. Friends where you can actually discuss what feminine things you're doing and the problems you're having are the best. There's no "Ick fix your lipstick that's gross" just understanding that these things have to be learned.
Wait is Carolyn Trans or a drag queen? Because the episode has her appearing as both Carolyn and Jaimie and Carolyn refers to herself and the other drag queens as men. But the comments here are referring to her as trans. Did I miss something in the episode?
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystore It's hard to say because the episode gives the impression that the writers... maybe didn't really grasp the distinction or know that trans women are a whole different thing. So the way that Caroline is depicted is kind of as both. To clarify - she does drag performance and seems to use masculine pronouns and terms at home. But she also lives full-time as a woman *everywhere* outside of home, which cis male drag performers don't usually do. And at home, Caroline's mother is supportive in a particular 'you're still a woman, who cares what you were born as' way that seems to refer more to transness (granted, using out-dated but well-intentioned terms). It makes it seem like the writers maybe thought that trans women still live as men at home, or thought that drag queens are men who prefer to live as women every day, or again just probably didn't know there was a difference between the two.
@@MoonwalkSA that makes sense. Maybe it’s Jamie’s mom that doesn’t understand either and why Jamie is always like “mom…” as if he’s explained it to her and she loves him but is a little misguided. I don’t know it that makes it more funny? Or less?
It’s interesting! I think that cishet women in general are exposed to the taboo of any performance of the femininity or sexuality of women. Be it drag shows, burlesque shows, or strip shows. Personally, it might be envy I feel- maybe other women feel that too? I’d love to be so comfortable and confident with my self to preform in any of these shows and not care about the taboo society puts on them.
Im AFAB non-binary and I grew up a tomboy. Over the last few years I have begun to embrace all sides of my gender identity: masc, fem, both, neither, etc. I’ve never been especially fem and I am definitely not masc. so this episode made me feel a lot of stuff. Mostly good from how accepting Peggy is
I don’t know you in real life, and can’t imagine you being malicious by any means, but the way I see it (I have a bias from being cis and straight and being skeptical of society/government), labeling the lack of feminine and masculine traits as some sort of non-binary proves the existence of some arbitrary gender binary that in the past it seems we’ve been pretty progressive about. People are allowed to be themselves, and I believe that these genderqueer labels are more outward and dissociative from your own identity, which is 👎👎
@@TheOnlyPedroGameplaysHow? I don't even know what point you're trying to make, or how the binary is progressive in anyway, considering it's only been used to put people in boxes. Non-binary isn't neutrality, it can be anything. Gender identity is more complicated than that.
@@TheOnlyPedroGameplays I can’t speak for them, but I don’t think they’re labeling themselves as nonbinary *only* because of the lack of masculine/feminine traits. Being nonbinary is much more complex than that, similar to how gender expression =/= gender identity
@@10000_bees ohhh, okay, good to know. The way I process that is simple: Why does it have to be like that? Where does our disconnection from our bodies and expression come from? We’ve been so involved with it for so long and it seems only recent.
@@TheOnlyPedroGameplays I’m not sure what you mean. Gender nonconformity has been around as long as gender has, and there have been different flavors of nonbinary people throughout human history, one example being 2-spirit people. Gender is a social construct which people experience differently, at the end of the day
First saw this episode as an adolescent egg and absolutely loved it. Caroline is never attacked for humor, and the drama is driven by her relatable insecurity. Seeing people who I knew are like me looking up to Peggy was a scene that always stuck with me. Somehow I forgot about Caroline's mom though, and her lines nearly brought me to tears today.
I moved to San Antonio four years ago and as a non binary man I’d only had one trans friend in almost 40 years. After moving here I’ve met three friends who helped me get in touch with my non cis sides a lot more than my supportive friends in the past. Texas has come a long way, I think
Being scared to shop in person is so real. The fist time I shopped in the men's section, I was physically shaking. Now it's a lot easier, but I still avoid talking to other people while shopping lmao
I always had huge feet. Like at 11 my feet had their maximum size and it was 10 to 10 and a half lady, which isn't that formidable for an adult woman, but for a child... it was unusual for sure. No kids models were ever made for my size and I was always forced to wear adult shoes (and at the time of 2000s in regular stores, most adult shoes were the most boring models you can think of or high heels). So when this episode came out, it kind of felt like a relief. Like I wasn't the only one who faced hardships and it felt good to see it on TV.
Omg shoe stores like Payless (when it used to exist) were one of the places I didn't looked forward to during the early 2000's. During my teens, I couldn't help but notice the lack of inclusion of certain shoe styles that weren't available past size 8-8 1/2. Being size 9, there weren't much options other than plain, boring looking shoes (especially for formal events) that the one's I sought were either sold out in limited quantities or not available in other sizes. It used to be discouraging b/c it created a negative association that "cute shoes are only catered for smaller feet and more feminine girls".
People are saying the store name 'Clarissa's Closet' should be obvious, but the reality is that for decades, many secondhand stores would have a name, followed by Closet, and this would imply from the name that they dealt in secondhand goods. Though most are simple, one-person operations- my mother operated one for example, specializing in maternity and infant / toddler apparel and accessories, along with some toys- some are fully realized operations. For example, there's one where I grew up that's still in business called Plato's Closet, and as I described, they deal exclusively in donated and traded secondhand goods. The marketing for the 'X Person's Closet' naming convention is that you're getting stuff 'out of someone's closet', or in other words, that you KNOW you're buying secondhand. As a NARRATIVE tool, yeah, it's foreshadowing, but it works with Peggy not piecing it together because of how the business naming convention works.
It always made me tear up to see Peggy at the end with the clothing swap. I really love the empowerment and feeling beautiful even when you don't feel like you fit the mold or the standard, and I imagine that's something every person can deeply connect with.
This always was one of the best Peggy-centric episodes of KotH. The next best being the one where she joins a book club. Most episodes, she's a very irritating no-nothing-know-it-all; but in the ones like this where she has issues and deals with them, then she is a very sympathetic and enjoyable character. This episode resonates with me because I too am a ciswoman who often struggles with feeling "properly feminine". Tbh, the part where Peggy openly reveals the various scars and such on her body to her new friend is just goals to me. Carolyn being supportive and nuturing to Peggy is so wonderful to see in a show like this. It was a little disheartening to see how harsh Carolyn was when telling Peggy she couldn't be in the show, but it was really nice that they were able to work things out like proper adults in the end. KotH may not be the best show to handle things like LGBTQIA+ rep (especially considering that "shim" crack they made in the episode where Hank breaks his nose), but taking into account the time it was produced, it's pretty fantastic. Also Carolyn's mom is the GOAT and my sister and I still reference her to this day :y
YES!! I've been PRAYING for this episode and waiting for it to come, thank you for making it!!! This episode really made me think, and this being one of my favorite shows ever never expected it when I saw it the first time. Super looking forward to your take and thoughts on this property from my early life.
I remember when this episode first hired and how wholesome it felt to me. I'm a cis woman that grew up a "tom boy" I've been called he-she, lesbian and more. My mom was a bi woman that went by Chris instead of crystal and my parents never taught me to hate anyone for superficial reasons like identity, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc. Growing up in NM I had bigger feet than the other girls as lantinas tend to be petite, so Peggy as a character resonated with me for several reasons. As a kid it never occurred to that it wasn't "normal" for guys to dress feminine bc I preferred more masculine clothes and activities. Why wouldn't it go both ways?
It’s interesting that this episode was so affirming. In another episode (I believe it was the one where Lucky gifts a snake to Bobby, and Hank takes the blame for it escaping), Hank remarks that he’s getting more stares than the local bank teller who’s “in between genders.” They even cut to the bank teller as a visual gag later in the episode.
KOTH is a comfort show for me. I've seen every episode innumerable times. I'm also trans queer. Most people see me and would describe me as a butch lesbian. It's fine. I'm not offended as I'm just glad when people make an assumption it lands close enough to what I am. Peggy's struggles with the female image and where she differs from societies ideals has always resonated with me. It took me until my early 30s to break free from trying to look feminine and accept the fact that I am happiest with a mullet.
This was the comment I came looking for. Yes you are right SerPUNt is the episode, but I have been rewatching KOTH the last few years and I see the Teller and Carolyn show up in crowd shots.
@@oceanoflotion8630how do you feel about Hank's transphobic rant on season one deleted scenes? Or you don't count the dvd's features as part of the series? I'm always puzzled by how people skip over the show being I'm general pretty bigoted except for a few episodes, so far I believe it's due to most gringos being so bigoted that anyone slightly less bigoted is seen as progressive, tolerant or supportive
Hank doesn't take the blame in SerPUNt, he is blamed by the animal control guys on TV and just never says otherwise or does anything to clear his name. It's just another horrid anti-worker episode where the animal control guys get blamed for the state not funding their program adequately by presenting yet again all gob workers as corrupt freeloaders. This series was a true shitshow
7:07 To be fair, there is a store we have in Texas called "Claire's Closet", which to my knowledge is not queer in any way. But that doesn’t change how overt it is here, haha
The ending in this episode was really heartwarming since Carolyn wanted to make sure Peggy knew she was valid and beautiful. I think it would be cool if Carolyn showed up in the series continuation since she definitely left a good impression in this one.
I grew up watching episodes of King of the Hill and this episode is one of the ones that really stuck with me, especially as a young cis girl struggling with my own femininity at the time. I was always a little afraid to go back to it in case it wasn't nearly as kind as I remembered.
I was so proud of this episode as a growing transman. Sure it's the opposite of my identity, being female-focused, but it was affirming to other people and helped my friends. I love it!
Episode on dales gay dad "My own private rodeo" is pretty great too My fav part was that hank, after the initial shock of finding out hes at gay rodeo, gets over it quickly and is instead annoyed with his friends giggling over it so much. Hes such a wet blanket but its so endearing
@@kayla8402most of the show has aged like milk under the sun, not that single character tho, imo that supportive mom is by far the best character in the whole series.
I really liked this episode. And I thought it positively portrayed LGBTQ people, but I grew up in conservative Texas, so any portrayal of LGBTQ people was new to me. And this episode ended on such a high note. Loved everything about it
This is one of my favorites Koth episodes, I cry from happyness every time I watch it. Caroline is an awesome character and friend (too bad she/they/him doesn't appear again). And the cherry on top is how supportive Hank is. He maybe does not understand drag queen/trans people, but he know Caroline is a super friend for Peggy and it's all that matter for him. By the way Lily, I love your hair.
This episode meant a lot to me because im a big cis woman. I had and still have to wear "mens" shoes. My feet are only a 12 in women (compared to Peggys 16), but like, damn i felt seen. I was always taller and fatter than my friends, even some of the guys. This episode came out wheh I was maybe 12? Pretty young and it helped laid the ground work of solidarity of the big queens out there, trans and cis solidarity for all the bullshit the fashion industry pulls on fem clothing.
This episode always felt clumsy but well intended. Def better than a lot of the adult animation was doing at the time. I do recall in a later episode where there’s a character who tries to encourage Hank in the episode “Bwah my nose.” Hank is scared and says “this game is forever” to which the character says “nothing is forever. I used to have a penis.” They’re saying this in a lobby at a surgical hospital which is the context. After that, Bobby winces and says something to the effect of “I’m gonna remember that” and reacting with disgust saying “I can remember what…shim just said or you can make this game a good one” more or less. Bobby calling them “shim” and reacting with disgust especially to someone who was being supportive to Hank was pretty bothersome.
I could totally understand a child character with a limited understanding having a disturbed reaction at the cursory concept of a genital surgery, but the framing around that is the important part.
FYI, while the show isn't set in a specific real 'town'(Arlen is fictional) it is set within a very specific region of East Central Texas, the Texas Triangle(North of Austin and Houston, South of Dallas) with evidence putting it most likely around Killeen. This is actually a common trend in Mike Judge and adjacent shows, narrowing down their fictional setting to a very specific area within a state, but not setting it IRL exactly. Beavis and Butthead is on the New Mexico-Texas border, we just don't know where exactly Highland is(though I think it's on the Texas side). Daria is set somewhere in the Main Line Triangle between Baltimore, Philly, and Harrisburg(most likely based on Lawnton, a Harrisburg suburb though).
king of the hill is actually getting a reboot on hulu and i think they will tackle more topics like this with a lot of grace and nuance. great analysis as always! ❤️
Billy Crystal lent a sense of gravitas to the role of Caroline, having played Jodie on Soap, as one of the early openly gay characters on TV. Of course, what that show said doesn’t perfectly mesh up with today’s standards, but he played an extremely important part of cinematic history that I believe King of the Hill honored by casting him for the part.
Honestly I really resonated with this episode as a kid at the time I had no idea I was a Lil egg but I did know I didn't fit in as a "woman" so seeing Peggy find herself it was empowering as a kid
I am so glad you touched on the way KOTH paved the way for Bob's Burgers as I have thought the same thing! Both are a more wholesome and character based approach to a family sitcom and both focus on different slices of the American experience. I really enjoy your videos as well as how receptive you are to feedback from your community. I find myself pretty consistently enjoying your content on Trans representation in media.
As a trans brazilian person, I didn't even find the name Clarissa's Closet weird until you pointed it out, here we have the same kind of name for stores lmao
I'm afab (trans-masc) and my feet are a size 12 us-sizes in ladies. When I still wore women's shoes it was impossible to find anything cute in my size and that's not even that big IMO
trueeee i feel your pain going to womans part in the shop theres either cool shoes that dont fit or idk, old people shoes to work in the garden in. good thing my family getting a little bit better about me being masc in front of them
Hey Im jealous! People who try to clock trans men (because their lives are boring) claim that ALL afab people have very small feet, so hey at least ur disproving them! I wear mens 7 so I get conscious of it. Which is funny, as a kid I was scared of growing big feet, now i’m wishing I did!
I love how nuanced and personal this episode is. Both Caroline and Peggy are approaching things genuinely from their own experiences, and both the conflict and its resolution are tied directly to their evolving friendship. It feels more like a real-world anecdote than a script.
king of the hill is one of my all time favorite animated shows. Mike Judge is honestly one of the greatest comics of our time, which is weird because he made Beevis and Butthead, but hey I guess that just shows how well he can deconstruct these aspects of modern culture and distill them into such sinple yet nuanced forms.
This video is bringing back memories of my mom telling me about a drag show she helped her friend get ready for. Apparently they had a great time laughing getting drunk doing hair as my mom was a hair stylist and her friends did his makeup beautifully. Then he got his dress on and had the time of his life. He was great from what my mom said. She told it to me with pride specifically for him bc it was his first show and was scared
This is kind of what I feel like with my mom and sister. I'm trans masc, but talking with them about gender is great for them too. I think my trans identity helped my mom identify with her genderidentity as a (cis) woman more. She tells me about how a specific outfit makes her feel feminin and how she disliked that when she went on a pilgrimage for 3 month she only wore sporty more butch close. That gave her dysphoria and when she went into a city she just get herself a pretty summer dress. She says she wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for me. She would have just dismissed her feeling but I showed her how important to is to recognize these feelings and how happy it makes you to act on them.
as a trans man, i am small for a woman and very small for a man. i am 4'9 (144.78 cm) and it does suck a lot. i have gotten better and have accepted myself to some degree, but the struggle is still there. it makes it feel like i will never be perceived as male.
When I was a younger egg, who was still trying to "Fit in" with the girls around me, Peggy really spoke to me. I've been overweight my entire life, so most "in" clothes didn't fit me. I had to shop in the Woman's sections of clothes and shoe stores from a young age. Hell, even now I have to special order tall boots online because most stores don't sell tall boots that fit my calves. This episode helped me feel a bit better about my body at the time. But as a openly transmasc, Enby, this episode still moves my lil queer Texan heart.
I've never seen this episode but I have always adored KotH so much. Also never been this early to one of your videos. They're great analysis videos. Thank you
Here's one for you. A trans episode (or segment) on Unsolved Mysteries. In the first season (1989) they did a segment on Liz Carmichael, a trans woman who ran a notorious and very successful scam for a supposedly hyper efficient car "The Dale" It was believed by many at the time that Liz was just a man dressing as a woman as some kind of disguise or part of the scam, or for other nefarious reasons. Unsolved Mysteries did treat the reveal of their trans nature as a bit of a twist, but all in all they were shockingly good about it, even mentioning that according to Liz she was in hrt in preparation for a sex change. They referred to her as 'her' and by her chosen name the whole time, even after 'the reveal' treating her birth name as an alias. Even witnesses they interviewed who knew her didn't misgender her and one even said "She was always a woman to me, still is a woman as far as I'm concerned." They just treated her like a person and I was shocked lol
Carolyn essentially invited Peggy to the cookout without knowing who she was or asking permission. One thing I love about the conversation around gender identity and queer culture is the fact that it's really universal, but no one wants to put themselves that far outside expectations to connect with it.
I remember always feeling for Peggy after this episode cuz I remember being 10 years old and having to move to adult sized shoes. When I was 10, there were no pretty or cool looking tennis shoes for grown women. Nowadays they have all sorts of cool or pretty shoes, even light up ones, but not when I was a child. So I really identified with her struggle.
It's a White guy doing a Yellowface voice, it was a solid preformance all things consider, but that replacing the actor is like step one@@rustyshackleford234
Trans women aren’t the only identity RuPaul has excluded. Drag kings (and other AFAB participants) are shut out too, IIRC because “they aren’t transgressive enough”. Ironic for someone who said “we’re all born naked and the rest is drag”. Like AFABs never had to fight to wear masculine-coded clothes? I personally am tired of drag queen culture being so hard to avoid, while drag king culture is so hard to find at all. I’m AFAB. I had to convince my mom to let me shop in the boy’s section as a teen. I would try on a dress, and like the dress, but also feel confused because I saw a man in a dress in the mirror. I’m AFAB and feminine clothes felt like drag! Since I’ve had HRT, and have a deepened voice and facial hair, I feel more comfortable wearing dresses and makeup, because people perceive a man in drag, not a gender-conforming cis woman. I may be AFAB but does that make me rocking a dress any less transgressive?
This is completely off topic, but lily, you look great with purple hair (ngl i also have purple hair, tho only half my head lol) i also think a deeper, reddish purple would look effing stunning with your complexion. (Sorry, ive had the thought she would look great with purple hair and now that i see her with purple hair im like, yaas, incredible. I love it lol) Also, i effing love this series.
Peggy is a character who's actually been pretty connected to queer characters during the run of KOTH. An important part of her back story as it develops in the course of the show is that she didn't lose her virginity to Hank - she gave it to her friend who thought he was gay. When relating the story to Luanne, Luanne asks "and did that fix him" and Peggy says "Oh no, Luanne, he was not broken, he was just gay." A surprisingly progressive and positive outlook for a woman raised the way she was, where she was, and when she was.
Very, very gay...
It's the rare joke where being gay is a punchline that isn't played to be offensive, and obviously as one gay man I can't speak for all of us but I always found it hilarious. And like you said it's a really simple and short but progressive attitude for Peggy, a Texan woman, to have about the situation.
KOTH is god tier wholesomeness
Her husband also went into defense of Dale’s dad and gay people when Bill and Boohhamer were mocking gay men. I watched that episode as a kid and it made me learn that there are people that lean conservative in the south who aren’t anti-LGBT
Not to nitpick, but I'm 90% sure Peggy is a Montanan
@@Wonderoddityyes but also no that show takes a lot if conservatism at face value and when it gets challenged on he show its misrepresented in very bad strawmans like the episode were Bobby learns about colonialism and slavery in the americas by the teacher who is is portrayed as a very right wing depiction of liberals "indoctrinating kids" ,and at the end if the episode hank tells Bobby basically yeah we stole they land and killed them ppl so what it's history now we don't need to worry about that"let the past be the past " type energy , in this episode the indigenous character talked about the colonialism his peoppe went through and it was basically washed over by them saying but your ethnic group did spiritual cannibalism , which they haven't done in legit centuries going back 500 years ago , they end it with this well every ethnic group has done somtjing bad so we cant be mad at americans who still oppress indigenous ppl to this day ( they did say that last oart but you get my drift lol)this is the same colonizer rhetoric the Spanish conquistadors used with the aztecs even tho what they have done to Latin America in comparison would never in a million years be seen as the same level of evilness , this show is made for conservative leaning American at he end of the day particularly white ones so I would be lying to say I'm surprised they portray colonialism and slavery like this.
Honestly, the look on Peggy’s face when she realizes Clarissa‘s closet sells size 16 shoes and that they have a variety of size 16 pumps for her to wear is so heartwarming
That's literally how I felt when I was in highschool and found a store called "the big feet store".
Summat relatable to me as a cis man beyond 6 foot 3. Sometimes dressing yourself is hard.
Not just that, but the complete lack of judgement from the clerk. There's no knowing smirk, no derisive, "Back of the store in the corner," no snickering or odd looks. Just a warm, welcoming smile and gesture. She'd probably never experienced that reaction to telling the clerk her shoe size in her life.
Honestly the thing about the larger shoe sizes is spot on. I wear a size 11.5 women's US, and it's so hard to find anything that I like, so I can't even imagine how bad Peggy would have it.
@@RubyH4rt women's 12 here. The worst part I find is width. I have an average size width foot for my length, when you use the measuring do-dad at the show store. But it seems like almost all dress shoes either assume that feet just get longer and not wider as you go up in size, OR they assume if your feet are long they must be exceptionally wide as well. So I either can't get my feet in at all, or they're falling off.
Hank is adorable in this episode. I also love how Caroline is presented as pretty, but she doesn’t look like a cis woman. King of the hill’s art style really works in this episode.
Yes! She's attractive and looks trans. it's well done.
That fella that was friends with Caroline sure seemed nice. Wonder what happened to him.
@@brittislove
Lily was right lmao, Hank’s such a clueless but kind himbo.
As a Cis woman who's struggled with her femininity and being mocked for more "masculine" traits, I love the last scene clothes swap. Because it's true to life that Peggy didn't need to change anything about how she presented herself, she just needed better friends.
Me- "why are all my friends trans women?'
Me, bringing size 11 heels to the clothes swap- "oh shit it's literally that episode"
YEah, maybe when your friends refer to your shoes as, "those boats", that might be a sign.
@@PrincessNinja007 girl, i need some of those heels!
You spelled STRAIGHT wrong.
Masculine women are great. Keep being awesome. :)
I think this is the only show I’ve seen with the reversal of a trans reveal. Instead of a cishet person realizing Caroline was trans it was Caroline realizing Peggy wasn’t. I wish Caroline appeared more after this because this is one of my favorite episodes
Ive seen that in at least a couple examples for gay ppl, but yeah, nvr seen for trans that i can think of
@@shoutuckerdidnothingwrongStill being triggered about basic words. Cisgender Heterosexual is a completely fine way to identify but you're not normal for identifying that way. You're just human.
@@shoutuckerdidnothingwrong "Stop using the word 'white'. Its not an exception to just be normal"
@@shoutuckerdidnothingwrong It is far more similar than you think, and whilst race may be an inherent thing that can be visibly observed; racism and all that includes is entirely a social construct, just like all bigotry
@@shoutuckerdidnothingwrong Sex doesnt bcuz intersex ppl exist and our sexes are denied at birth based on visible physical signs, even if our actual sex cud be discerned with testin
First off, one of the drag queens at the clothes swap is dressed as Frida Kahlo (the one with the flower crown). Even though no one working on the episode was LGBTQ+ that we know of, either someone brought in others who were to help and was uncredited, or they did A LOT of their own research. I can't imagine how they were able to put so many hints to Caroline's identity in a surprisingly aged well way otherwise.
But more importantly, I like to think this episode is less about Caroline directly, and more a way for people unfamiliar or uncomfortable with LGBTQ+ people to see through our lenses. Using Peggy as a way of saying "You struggle with a lot of similar fears without realizing. They just get more hate for it and deal with it in a different way. If you show you're willing to learn and accept them, they'll do the same for you." I think we need more stories like this that flip the roles in a respectful way to open the eyes of those that would turn their nose up at more direct stories.
Correct me if I'm wrong here because I know NOTHING about art but wasn't Frida openly queer?
@@godrickstockwell1505 I'm still learning more about her myself, but she was more open about it compared to most, as she does have some paintings inspired by past girlfriends. She was also known to paint about gender expression and cross dressing, so seeing a drag queen dress as her is very fitting. Again, I'm still learning just how much she did, so while I can't point you to examples off the top of my head, I for sure encourage you to look into it too if you wanna see for yourself.
Honestly this is why KOTH is so great. A lot of comedy would either ridicule Peggy or Caroline, depending on what the political standpoint of the writers is. Instead the show portrays the often hilarious confusion, when kind hearted and good people try to understand the wildly different worlds they live in.
It would’ve been sweet if Caroline showed up again. It was nice seeing Peggy with a friend who she’s friends with out of actual bonding and not just being neighbors.
Maybe she can show up in the reboot
Fingers crossed.
it's my headcanon that they continue to be friends and hang out regularly, even if you dont see it in the show :)
Would be fine even if it was just a background non voiced character.
I agree. She seemed sweet, and Peggy actually seemed to have a healthy friend outside her family,
Here's a bombshell for you: this episode aired only 4 years after being gay was legalized in Texas.
I was nearly 20 when sodomy laws were repealed here in Texas and I’m not even 40 yet.
@@prestonbruchmiller497 wyd later? ;)
OMG
If you think "Caroline's Closet" was a bit on-the-nose, my Mum once accidentally went into a store named "Transitions" not realizing the target demographic for it
But did she come out looking fabulous? We need to know.
Lol I’m queer af and still don’t know how on the nose Caroline’s closet is 💀
I have no idea what the queer coding of Clarissa’s Closet is. 🤷♂️
@@Nightman221kever heard of the term "coming out of the closet"? lol
@@jinx7641 I know that having the word "Closet" in it could read queer by proxy, obviously. It's just that I know a few shops that have the word closet in them in my neighborhood that aren't exclusively gay. And the name Clarissa doesn't really make me think of queerness.
Carolyn immediately getting really nervous and scared when finding out Peggy's cis and thus her and her husband aren't necessarily queer friendly killed me. If the writers didn't consult queer people for this, they are EXTREMELY informed all on their own.
Side note: I don't live in a conservative state thankfully, but Jamie/Carolyn really resonated with me as a genderfluid person who doesn't really explain my situation to people regardless how I'm presenting, unless they ask about something relevant to it, even though I'm very open and out. It's a very weird worrying feeling when someone assumes you're cis when you're presenting the opposite.
Im kinda shocked by the claim they didnt, bcuz usually an ep like this wudve involved GLAAD; even back then, and that is usually why these good eps from the more progressively inclined shows are oft so well done... given the time period they were made in ofc
I cudnt find any evidence this ep did have GLAAD support but its not a rly easy thing to find out with just cursory googling as i did; thats smth you have to do deep delves into history of things to figure out usually...
@@SylviaRustyFae it's very hopium pilling to think they did this of their own volition without a sponsor or trans/GNC writers or consultants on board. Like they just either have known enough queer people or have enough empathy and sense to do this well all on their own. Honestly I can't even count the terminology and identities of the characters seeming jumbled against them. Sometimes people just aren't PSA simple. Sometimes someone who lives as a woman isn't going to have the terminology or understanding to call themselves trans, and it's neat to show that people can still be accepting and not phobic while lacking that knowledge.
@@Lanoira13 I cud totes see just one of them havin queer friends and tryin to make a story and jumblin things a bit; without input. But it seems less likely than the chance they did have help and its just not clearly listed anywhere; and the vid is as always, a product of its time
Mike Judge's whole *thing* is subcultures. Go through the whole king of the hill catalog and many episodes are "Hank, Peggy, or Bobby are confronted by or involved with people in a subculture or niche hobbyists and the episode is an honest if not necessarily flattering portrayal of them". Like this episode with Caroline is very pro LGBT and also pro drag before the penetration and popularity of drag in the mainstream, but Witches of East Arlen was a scathing mockery of loser dark fantasy wickan larpers (or, you know what I mean, they're a clearly identifiable subgroup even if they don't have an easily identifiable group name self declared or otherwise).
It's a very 00s show, because the information age has sort of radically diluted and trivialize subcultures because the internet and social media allows non members to rapidly learn about and adopt a subcultures basic elements even if they aren't participants. Basically in the modern day it's really easy to be a poser.
Every episode that talks about LGBT+ individuals seems like it was really, really well made and with a lot of input from the community.
It's pretty sad that Caroline and the other ladies don't turn up again - Peggy really found community in them, it would've been nice if they became regulars, Caroline at the very least.
Golden opportunity for the new series.
theres a lot of characters or plot/storylines they just cut off completely to a lot of my disappointment lol. like one of the bigger ones is they HAD to keep bill lonely & pathetic so they just never acknowledged laoma again
@@lucasdudeLaoma having dumped Bill was mentioned in a single throwaway line in an episode unrelated to Bill. The man just isn’t allowed to be happy
@@lucasdude Dude that one woman he dated that genuinely liked him and he was a good dad figure to her two kids, only for Dale to butt in because he found out the daughter and Joseph are half siblings and therefore was 'his daughter' (AKA John Redcorn's) and he refused to have her raised by Bill, so he talked Redcorn into seducing the woman like- not even the characters want Bill to be happy
But, that _did_ help prevent a weird near-incest plot since Joseph was starting to bond a bit too close to the girl (his half-sister)
@@hunterlangley8287 Queens of the hill :3
I really like that Carolyn helps Peggy connect with her womanhood. It shows that womanhood isn’t a set experience, like Carolyn’s mom said real women aren’t just biological women.
As a US queer person, Clarissa's Closet does not read as immediatly obvious tbh. My state has a whole chain of clothes resellers called Plato's Closet.
I was going to comment about this very thing! Plato's closet was such a cute place for clothes when i was tween/teen
Plato's Closet definitely is for aces.
It's also a very dated reference
@@rrrrthats4rs 🤔 nah, it's more common to just say coming out, but I still hear people specifically reference being closeted so I don't know how dated it is.
I just also don't think it's something where people take it to mean that in every context, particularly in the south a couple decades ago.
@Jack-px8lf yeah... you're literally replying to a comment where I say that I live in the US and there's lots of places with closet in their name...
I've literally never heard the Clarissa part reference queer stuff, so I'm pretty sure closet was where the video was going with that [shrug].
I’m not sure if this has been confirmed but I believe that Clarissa’s Closet isn’t just an on the nose name- it’s a reference to a real store, Janet’s Closet in Wyandotte Michigan. My ears perked up when I heard the name but I figured it may be a coincidence, but when I saw the purple cursive logo for Clarissa’s Closet, the reference was clear. Janet’s Closet is the largest “cross-dressing store” (their site’s wording) in the world and they’ve been around since 1999. The owner, Janet, is a trans woman who drives around in a bright purple car. Also there’s a really cool cat who lives in the store.
If I’m right and it is a reference to Janet’s, I’m surprised that it was made by a group of straight writers because it seems like a very specific deep cut.
And here I was speculating above that the reference maybe wasn't "Clarissa" or "Closet" but something else, like "Clarissa's Closet" being known as THE store in Texas for drag queens or something (at least on the show). I could've scrolled down here and saved myself some time! Thanks for sharing this info.
Maybe those straight writers had some not-straight friends. Judge went to Uni in California, after all.
I suspect that most crossdressing boutiques from the 1990s use that exact typeface.
@@crnkmnky Even if they did you'd still have to brush against queer culture to know that, so that would still mean they did research for this.
KOTH Is one of the few shows that has aged surprisingly well. Perfect? No, but nothing is. It's arguably the first well known example of using wholesomeness as the whole shtick, and exploring kindness through comedy. I'm not at all surprised it's one of the few shows from a largely cishet perspective that actually handled a queer topic with grace.
KOTH was always pretty respectful. I hope the upcoming reboot is willing to push the envelope with more great episodes like this one.
KOTH was always good at laughing at people's antics and shortcomings, but rarely at people themselves. For the era that it aired, that wasn't common in a lot of comedy.
"cause you know... the love". They all mean well and are slowly stumbling their way into healthy, looser expressions of emotion and gender roles. It ages well because they're all growing past a lot of that terrible social crap (and the nightmare that is Cotton).
This really was the good part of the 90s, that push to break down rigid gender roles. They did a heck of a job tying in that very 90s empowering womanhood concept to these characters.
That's true! I rewatched it with a friend last year and while the first season made me feel like it was going to be rough... but watched all together it comes off as the story of Hank Hill growing past his own traumas and becoming more accepting with time as he raises Bobby who, while probably hetero or bi, is loud and flamboyant in a lot of ways.
By comparison, the Futurama rewatch I started right around then too felt very mean-spirited and at times dated.
It helps that the places it hasn't aged great in tend to either be intentionally pointing out this is wrong and parodying middle american mindsets, or is minor enough that even if it isn't correct, it's still respectable.
There's an episode where they accidentally let a sex worker stay at the house. She encourages Peggy to dress more feminine and some background character makes a transphobic comment about Peggy's feet. As a trans woman who's like 5'5" and with women's (US) size 8 shoes, I'd be less likely to be targeted with that then someone like Peggy. Because transphobia doesn't just hurt trans women, nor is it meant too. It's used to mock any women, cis or trans, for not adhering to patriarchal standards. This show actually understands that pretty damn well. Where as other shows often depict transphobia as just mocking queer people for being different.
I often think of the cis women who have PCOS and grow more body / facial hair than the average cis woman. Hell, before my transition, I was a "hairy girl" and more self conscious about it because in my head it made it more obvious that I was "supposed to be a boy". There's butch lesbians who look more like a teen hearthrob than a 30 year old woman. They get picked on for being "trans"... even though they are cis women. It really is about controlling women and how they are 'allowed' to present as women. They just don't want them to feel comfortable in their bodies, cis OR trans. :(
Wait so if someone makes fun of me for having a small dick I can label them a transphobe? Sick
@@needaccount94 That's not what that means, you know that, find something else to do with your time.
@@needaccount94 He calls her a man and makes a joke about trans surgeries, it's explicitly transphobia. All your comment shows is you don't watch King of the Hill
While I am pulling from memory, I'll do my best to add the exchange here for context. Peggy and the sex worker who's name eludes me atm enter a library dolled up super femme. The camera focuses on two random background guys.
Guy1: "Check out the feet on that one (Peggy), got to be a man."
Guy2: "Nah look, no Adam's Apple!"
Guy: "They got surgeries to fix that now"
i feel solidarity w peggy as a woman w size 16 in womens shoes
I've heard of people that pay good money to just look at size 16 feet. I never really understood what the big deal is, but I might be more of a Hank myself.
@@nefariousyawnMaybe it's some fetish
@@tortamenta8953There is actually another KotH episode in which Peggy is taken advantage of by a shady guy who puts pictures of her feet on a fetish website. Unfortunately I don’t recall the details of the episode’s resolution so I don’t know how much it got into similar exploration of her societal gender expectations as this one did
@@evansageser6943 I remember that one!
@@tortamenta8953100% is. Made 60$ off a dude. Idc it got me groceries lmao
27:47 This is probably the only trans-related gag in a TV sitcom I genuinely laughed to, the fact that you completely know what happened on the other end of the line is killing me
carolyn's mom is an icon
Frfr
She was way ahead of her time (this episode came out in 2007, saw it when it first aired).
🐐
I am not a trans woman but just a very tall cis woman and I relate hardcore on the shoes thing. Plus transphobia from assholes who tell me I “must be a man” due to my height alone, even though I am extremely feminine. Transphobia affects cis people too!
I feeeeeeel. I'm a cis woman who's 6' 4" and I've been this height since I was like 13/14 and wear a size 13 shoe. My whole life I've always had people question me on my gender identity or make assumptions and legitimately argue with me about it when I politely correct them. It doesn't happen nearly as often nowadays thankfully but I hate that some people can't just respect other people's identity, regardless of what it might be
I'm sorry that happens to you. I am tall and I hate how tall I am.
Most supermodels are tall tho. Long legs are seen as attractive.
Sorry in my country Ireland ,tall women are ,ike super attractive I dunno why
@@dreamsprayanimation theres a certain, often arbitrary amount of height before you are considered 'manly' for being tall. just like how theres a certain amount of huskiness/depth your voice is allowed to have before its no longer sexy. patriarchy, and by extension beauty standards, are contradictory and often serve to isolate people who either too enthusiastically embrace them or don't embrace them enough (or, in this case, people who are just not born perfectly in the acceptable boundaries of femininity)
Season 9 Episode 5 I think is also worth a mention. The DMV issues Hank a new driver's license with a F stamp on sex. He ends up being treated badly on his quest to update it back to as it should reflect. This isn't trans rep in any way, but I do think it can be window to the cosmic horror that is fighting the bureaucracy that trans folks tend to be so familiar with. If a trans perspective is considered at all, I think it could serve to illuminate those that haven't had to fight to be acknowledged in that way.
That episode has hank utter the line (in regards to his genitals) "Can't you tell the difference between the ones made by God and ones jerry-rigged out of a toe and some old skin?" Which, personally, I find to be a little transphobic from the main character we are meant to be rooting for.
@@Namingway248It's definitely transphobic.
yeah that comment is so vile it ruins an otherwise good episode
There's unfortunately several jokes about trans people during the later seasons of King of the Hill which are just, y'know, Bad.
Something I feel like people forget about king of the hill is the neighbors might be conservative Texans, but if the opportunity presents itself, they can grow because they are able to find common ground. One episode had hank support a farm to table store because the steaks were more tasty and lovingly prepared than at the megalo mart. I could buy Peggy accepting Carolyn for being a drag queen without it seeming out of character.
If you have the time, totally recommend the episode where Peggy starts to do feet videos!
Oh sick it's kittymonk. Loved you're Roger vid. AD is a comfort show for me so it was cool seeing someone else's joy for the character.
Love when I find people I watch commenting on other people I watch 😹
Read this whole comment in your voice lol! Can’t say I’m surprised to see you here
Hank may be a conservative, but he is consistently shown as having no problems with other orientations/identities. Earlier episode had him unknowingly inside a gay rodeo searching for someone and despite how openly gay and camp it was Hank didn't seem to think amything was weird and even enjoying himself a bit until the last part, which had a guy chasing a goat to slip panties onto it as an event which was the only thing that seemed to gross him out.
When he finds the man he was looking for he is shown to be uncomfortable not with the gay but with the camp that he doesn't seem to understand at all. Also is quick to deny that he himself is gay. In contrast to his friends who act completely immature and mocking about gays while Hank straightforward reprimands them.
Really only thing I can recall him being slightly prejudiced about is when his driver's license incorrectly lists him as female and his son Bobby says that would technically make him amd Peggy lesbians to which Hank quickly replies with "that's it! The cable is gone!" Like he thinks his 13 year old son is to know about such things or maybe just a sort of 'we don't talk about these things publicly' mentality
He kind of reminds me of my grandpa in that way. I was scared to come out to him as trans and he’s very quiet so I don’t know what he actually thinks but he respects me enough to be like “ok I don’t understand it but do what you want with your life” he still deadnames me but for someone who is very brainwashed by Fox News i was expecting a lot worse. And compared to the rest of my family. I know he cares about me he just doesn’t understand how to express it which is rough but I’m grateful for him trying
Even then Hank is pretty flexible as far as conservatives go. Like with the goat thing I'm pretty sure he at least acknowledges the skill it takes.
Idk abt other southern states, but Texas has a very "we don't talk about these things publicly" culture in general
Keep to ourselves and smile and nod
I don’t think that was necessarily out of bigotry tho. I don’t think Hank feels comfortable talking about literally anyone else’s relationships. Lol or even his own, for that matter.
@@TheSlipperyNUwUdle that's basically the main punchline for these type of scenes; hank being socially awkward and emotionally constipated lol
Caroline: "Hurry!"
Peggy: "Why?"
Caroline: "Because it's more dramatic!"
Still one of my favourite KotH moments :)
Funny anecdote about this episode, as a 10 year old kid when I saw this I didn't understand what was going on at all and thought that Hank actually did know what was going on (because he was the one adult in the show who had his shit together) and that it was just an unspoken rule of politeness and manners to act like Hank did around people like Carolyn (i.e. treating each gender presentation like their own person). Keep in mind, I did not know what drag was, that gay people existed, that being transgender was an option, etc. I just saw 'Oh, Carolyn's Jaime sometimes, cool'. Anyway turns out I'm autistic
This exactly. I watched King of the Hill almost every night as a kid, along with a lot of The Simpsons, Futurama, etc. I saw these 'trans episodes' countless times but never really got what they were supposed to be about as I had never known about being queer or trans. Granted, I'm transmasc, but I just assumed that these characters were women, or that they, like Carolyn, had different personas. It's kind of weird to see so many stories of how these shows helped people discover their identities because the concepts just never transferred over for me. I guess that's just what it's like to grow up ftm and autistic.
Tbh I thought something similar, ie, Hank was trying to be respectful & allow everyone to maintain their identities. There are quite a number of episodes where Hank overlooks or goes along with something that 1 might expect an ignorant country person to mock or get angry at.
@@phoneheaded Im transfemme and autistic and all this shit always flew over my head too. Like i knew trans was a thing but i didnt connect it with most these eps and i def didnt rly understand how trans worked... So i didnt think i was trans
Until i met in person another nonbinary person, and then a second nonbinary person at that same weekend LARP event heh; suddenly a lot clicked and i did a deep delve and came out by the end of the yr heh. And suddenly these things all made a lot more sense to me heh
Same here. I'm not autistic but I didn't really pay that much attention to most "adult" media. I saw it as boring unless it was a horror movie/show or a sitcom. Hell, I used to watch Will and Grace when it originally aired and it took me a while to figure out that Jack and Will were gay. I just thought they were weird grownups
I love your interpretation of it as a kid, because like, while it's not actually what happened, it should be how people act with it. If someone says they're something, it should be respected. :)
As much crap as Peggy gets from the KOTH fandom (sometimes rightfully), I love that she’s even more open minded than Hank in many ways. She always supports Bobby when he’s doing something considered abnormal for a boy, and she’s open minded to other cultures and ways of life. Even when she says something rude, I get the feeling she’s genuinely just tone deaf and ignorant and says things she doesn’t realize are not okay to say. Granted, she also falls into the pitfalls of acting like she knows more about other cultures despite not being a part of them. Like the episode where she says the Mexican customers don’t speak very good spanish when she works at a call center and she’s taking calls from Mexico. Lol
She’s a great character. Big head, bigger heart.
The way her face lit up when she found the store online was so wholesome
It's interesting how Hank is a southern conservative but managed to have far more professive and open-minded perspectives on gay and transgender people, even defending gay people without hesitation when they were being laughed at by Bill and Boomhaumer, than liberal characters like Brian or some South Park characters who in contrast had absolutely abominable and regressive reactions to the concept of trans people.
I suppose the difference is that regardless of his political views, Hank is a good person willing to learn and change. Brian from Family Guy regardless of his political views is an awful person.
Absolutely fantastic analysis. Everything Brian does is cynical calculation dedicated to bolstering his social standing. He's a perfect representation of a mainstream liberal that deep down believes absolutely nothing.
I have a theory that the character shift in Brian from moral center to soulless liberal was a conscious decision on MacFarlane's part because Brian represents a part of who he (MacFarlane) was when he originally created the character, and he really hates it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the character that begun as an honest-to-god moral grandstander had the voice that was closest to Seth's natural speaking voice.
Hank's an old school conservative Texan, the kind who probably voted for LBJ and is more "not my business" oriented versus overtly bigoted. He's flawed but a good person. They exist. A great example IRL that comes to mind is Dallas area sports tv broadcaster Dale Hansen. He was one of the few outspoken defenders of the first openly gay player in the NFL, Michael Sam, specifically calling out how hypocritical homophobic fans and players were against him playing. He said ", "I'm not always comfortable when a man tells me he is gay; I don't understand his world. But I do understand that he is part of mine." He went on to compare the discrimination with that of racism that was in place just mere decades earlier in football.
I think many of these older reasonable conservatives are fairly quiet and/or simply not around anymore, def drowned out by the much more fringe right that exist in Texas now or have drifted more left/liberal. Part of what's made KOTH so endearing is the characters are nuanced and complicated in a realistic way. It's been a trademark of Mike Judge (Office Space, Silicon Valley) and Jim Dauterive (Bob's Burgers), and Greg Daniels (Office) who all wrote on KOTH.
@@joshuatxuk He named his dog Ladybird after LBJ's wife, so it's almost certain you're right here.
Hank is the unsung hero
KOTH was (and still is) one of my favorite adult animated shows growing up. I was born in Texas so I'm probably biased but most sensitive issues were handled with tact and had a realistic approach, it was always so funny to me to see this old-soul southern family man grappling with things he's never been exposed to before. In most cases he's got a sort of "hes a little confused but hes got the spirit" vibe, and I always found it amusing. I'm a queer guy myself and always saw myself in these characters, esp bobby
as a gender queer lil fuck growing up in houston, I always appreciated the at-times domineering but overall open minded approach hank took toward bobby. I'm kinda transfemme, so watching an episode with my dad and seeing hank accept some more feminine part of bobby's character was a really nice thing to see. especially since he had a tendency to air on the 'god damnit bobby quit playing with dolls' side of things
@@パガイ I had the same experience except I’m transmasc, episodes like the one covered in this video were very important to my journey !! Thank you for sharing 😀
I remember an episode where Hank got his license messed up and it said he wasawoman, my favorite part of the episode was Peggy so proudly saying someone called her a lipstick lesbian (that's what I remember atleast)
It's a rare instance where a show with over 10 seasons has maybe like, 4 duds total? Been watching through KOTH recently and have only skipped the Ms. Wakefield episode and the dam one where Bill turns everyone against Hank
I agree with this comment. I used to suffer depression & during MDD episodes KOTH was the most comforting show to watch because it’s comedy based on kindness & wholesomeness. It’s probably 1 of the best adult animated shows to watch if u have any mood issues or struggle with being triggered by shows that either sappy or dark
This episode also contains one of my favorite jokes from the series when Peggy and Carolyn are driving and she goes "wow I can see so clearly! Why don't people always drive with their brights on?" while you can see people frantically signaling at her to turn them off
Can we talk about how this episode was basically the reverse of most 'trans discovery' episodes, where the CIS people are constantly remarking 'I wonder if she's married', or stuff, and then discover the person is trans?
Also -- just from a storytelling standpoint: A++ on pacing and tension. Dramatic irony done SO well.
Exactly this!
Yes! Media has a lot to answer for. I'm sure shit like the IT crowd has a lot to do with the "we can always tell" arseholes.
KotH is set in Arlen, based on Garland, a suburb of Dallas. It's definitely a thing here (or, was a thing) for many years to call a Drag Show a "Revue", for exactly the reasons you mention. Also, back in "the day", I can remember quite a few drag queens who spent most of their lives "in costume" as women. I'm sure you're right that those people would be (and probably are, those that survived) trans women. Also, Mike Judge actually lived in Garland for a few years (which is, btw, one of the most backward backwaters of an already backwards city, the Buckle On The Bible Belt), and I would expect nothing less than a nuanced and somewhat clever take on any subject from Mr Judge. People underestimate him because of Beavis and Butthead, but he's a very smart creator.
100% - Same with Office Space and Austin and other Texas cities / burbs as well. I've run into many people like Lawrence (the redneck contractor neighbor in Office Space) and yet it's a character type lacking in comparable media.
"Beavis and Butthead" in hindsight was brilliant because it's just a slightly more absurd take on characters he's encountered IRL, as he's alluded to in multiple interviews. I remember David Letterman was obsessed with B&B and even introduced Mike Judge on his show as "the creator of one of the greatest cultural works of the 20th century."
Because of how great this episode treats Caroline part of me has always wondered if they kept her ambiguously queer because her biological sex is so integral and a big focus of the plot this team of cis people thought maybe it wouldn't be the best look for them to do that to a blatant trans character
I love the simple relief and happiness on her face when the person at the desk says "Which brand" and gestures over.
While there are no trans characters, I recall that there is an episode in which Hank discovers that his birth certificate has him marked as female and Dale (newly having decided that the government is always right) believes this means that Hank must really be a woman and Hank has to go through the process of changing his gender marker, including having to prove his penis is not the result of having had bottom surgery. It's been a few years since I've seen this episode, but I think it could have some interesting (both negative and positive) messages when examined through a trans lens.
It sounds like showing the redicilousness whe testing gender marker and incredibly invasive?! Its unlikely tht was no the point?! And likelys a trasissue i would guess.
@@marocat4749dude wait okay i dunno if im blasted or if you're having a stroke or both but this comment is not readable
@@marocat4749I think they're saying that the King of the Hill was showing the ridiculousness of testing gender markers and it was, not coincidentally, a metaphor for The issue trans people have.
@@FrancisR420Exactly. I don't know what else they could have been trying to say with that and KOTH is a show that was pretty much always trying to say something.
Yeah that was a great episode. It was pointing out the hypocrisy of the situation. If people think it's stupid that a cis person can't get their gender listed properly on their birth certificate then they should also think it's stupid the other way.
As a cisgender heterosexual male, as I have grown up and gotten married and had to learn what a good husband is, Lily's advice is on point. Guys, if you want a good role model for who to be as a husband or father, Hank Hill is one of the single-best examples in most media. If you had a horrible dad, who was also a horrible husband, and you want to have someone to study, Hank Hill is probably the best example. As a father, finds ways to support his son in ANY of his endeavors (the modelling episode is a little off on that, but he does still do his best to support and help his son there too), even if he doesn't understand or enjoy them. As a husband, he is by and large a supportive, understanding partner, and while he has a hard time using words, he expresses it time, and time, and time again, through action.
Also, he is uncomfortable sometimes, but never once if he intolerant of someone because of what they are. He judges people based on who they show themselves to be. He doesn't care if you are gay, straight, transgender....anything. He cares that you are a good person.
Hank doesn’t care who you are as long as you have a firm handshake!
(And cook with propane.)
I enjoyed King of the Hill despite myself and while I don’t remember most episodes, this is one of the few that I think about often. I think most sitcoms write off the wife character as a nag a bch or too stupid to comprehend things. Peggy is not a dainty feminine pretty lady and I liked that the trans community in this episode admired that in her, despite how she originally saw herself. I am not trans and I present very feminine, but my femininity has always felt defined by how people saw me and not necessarily something inherent to my character. Inside I felt awkward and heavy handed and dare I say “manly” like Peggy saw herself. I’m interested to see how the trans community, or a trans person I should say, interprets the same episode.
I'm nonbinary (AFAB) and was never into feminine looks, neither did I want to dress masculine. I just wore what I wanted. I've always been very tall and didn't have a great body shape either. Perhaps because I never cared that much about trying to fit into a box defined by society, it was actually sad for me to see women having anxiety and depression because they desperately tried to change themselves to fit that femme stereotype. It's fine to be very femme if you like yourself that way. But women shouldn't be ashamed of having "masculine" traits. Neither should men for being "feminine". My personal opinion is basically "f*ck gender roles and stereotypes, we're all individuals!" but I accept that not everyone agrees with me or they feel comfortable with it.
At the end of the day, all that's important is that you're comfortable in your own body and don't let others tell you who or what you should be. The definition of "womanhood" and "manhood" is vastly different depending on in which part of the world you live in. So it's fine to live by your own definition.
Personally, I like this episode. It feels honest in its approach and didn't just play off offensive stereotype checklists for the laughs.
@@NoxAtlasI am comfortable being a woman but I understand that’s not everyone inside who is born into a female body. Society deems femininity as a weakness and in the same hand diminishes any woman presenting person as weak if they don’t do it right. Sexism is prevalent still.
@@private755 That's so true. I can relate to that struggle from the perspective as a nonbinary. Because society is so binary-coded regarding to genders, we're dealing with the expectation that we HAVE to represent as androgynous because anything else would make us a man or woman and if we don't commit to it, we're being accused of just faking our identity and being "attention-seeking snowflakes". Regardless of which sex you are and what your gender identify is, sexism is always present and it will never disappear as long as we exist as a species.
To be fair Peggy IS very often portrayed as being extremely lacking self awareness and in some cases perhaps not stupid but very confidently ignorant (especially in episodes centering around her tenuous grasp of the Spanish language, like the one where she accidentally abducts a Mexican child). Though it's not really a 'woman dumb' thing so much as a 'Peggy in particular has an absurdly inflated sense of self worth' thing.
@@Nuvizzletrue it’s better to have an imperfectly portrayed but more realistic fully fleshed character capable of growth than a two dimensional Mary Sue who has no flaws or a walking punchline for the sitcom menfolk to jab at
I always adored how Hank, even as stiff as he could be, simply shrugged and was like. You guys are friends. You make my wife happy. Just keep doing that
And I really like that. It’s not too major but it’s enough to see the support there for everyone
Yet he starts the series as a bigot and ends the series as one. If Hank was supportive he wouldn't go off ranting against every group that's not male white Christian capitalist straight cis people. Have you even watched the series? Because Hank's tolerance is exclusively dependent on how clueless he is about someone being different from him.
The fear of shopping thing is super true for a lot of fat people, too. The judgment from those around and often the workers themselves is really hard to deal with. It's not the same as trans and other queer people face because they have the added risk of bias, but it's a reality that makes Peggy's cluelessness at that comment understandable.
Funny enough there's a great episode about this when Bobby needs clothes and is taken to the "Husky" store haha.
7:25 "Clarissa's Closet just seems like a wierd name I guess..."
Weird? Maybe it's just American cultural thing, but naming something "So-and-so's Closet" is hardly weird in Texas, it is EXTREMELY common. It even gives off a very old fashioned conservative vibe. I googled searched businesses with such names in my area (Ausitn) and no less than 15 places popped up, all looked queer-beign, maybe even queer-friendly, but none looked queer-catering or specific (which surprised me to be honest, as Austin does cater to the queen community more so than other surrounding places.)
But...I found MANY shop that looked down right queer-hostile. Like overly patriotic stuff, plenty of "South-western" attire, cattle brands used as decor, Crosses, etc. Not that that stuff is anti-LGBQ specific, just that I would not be surprised if their regular shopper was the type to wear MAGA gear, and votes based on which politician he thinks will make gay marriage illegal again. Not a place I would totally feel safe in.
as a gender queer person with a mom a lot like peggy, i like this episode a lot with how peggy's emotions are expressed and how the trans/drag character reacted to her relating to queer gender at first. we both had to realize that sexism has made her feel so discouraged and disconnected with her own femininity and womanhood and its not taking anything away from me or other queer people to help her. recently my mom has started to fill her closet with dresses and heels after 40 years of feeling to masculine to wear those clothes
Just gonna say as a queer person in a small southern town, the name "Clarissa's Closet" sounds like at least 3 small cis-straight aimed boutiques I can think of in the region lol
This episode was like one of the first pieces of media I saw as a kid that didn't look down on the queer character and frankly it did a lot for me at the time. It made me feel just a tad less afraid about what I was beginning to feel about myself. Carolyn's mom honestly made me feel so good as a kid shshshss
realising i'm trans masc and seeing my friend realise she is transfemme has done more for my connection to femininity than all my years 'as a girl' ever did, and seeing peggy find comfort in her gender through connecting with *gender queer* people makes me feel more seen than any of the other shows/episodes you've spoken about tyvm
Caroline’s Mom is actually so based.
It somehow feels relevant to bring up the real life drag queen Juno Birch, who is a trans woman, but does drag. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I think it's arguably more important to just accept people for who they are and how they live than to worry about labels.
I've been rewatching this show lately. Recently watched the episode where they let a sex worker stay at their place. I was pleasantly surprised to see how well they portrayed her character as her own person and a human. It was very refreshing to see. and seeing Hank defend and support her was heartwarming.
"The only girl I'm selling is sweet lady propane. And I'm trickin her all over this town" 💀
Is that the one where he dresses like a pimp? Feathered hat and all. Lol I love that episode.
"Yo, how much for the jasper Brunette?"
This review made me think about how some cis women like drag because they also feel like femininity can be a performance. And yet, it's sort of taboo to let it be known that you're working at the performing? The conversation where Peggy and Caroline discuss how not to smear lipstick while eating is so supportive and kind. Friends where you can actually discuss what feminine things you're doing and the problems you're having are the best. There's no "Ick fix your lipstick that's gross" just understanding that these things have to be learned.
Wait is Carolyn Trans or a drag queen? Because the episode has her appearing as both Carolyn and Jaimie and Carolyn refers to herself and the other drag queens as men. But the comments here are referring to her as trans. Did I miss something in the episode?
@@iwritechecksatthegrocerystore It's hard to say because the episode gives the impression that the writers... maybe didn't really grasp the distinction or know that trans women are a whole different thing. So the way that Caroline is depicted is kind of as both.
To clarify - she does drag performance and seems to use masculine pronouns and terms at home. But she also lives full-time as a woman *everywhere* outside of home, which cis male drag performers don't usually do. And at home, Caroline's mother is supportive in a particular 'you're still a woman, who cares what you were born as' way that seems to refer more to transness (granted, using out-dated but well-intentioned terms). It makes it seem like the writers maybe thought that trans women still live as men at home, or thought that drag queens are men who prefer to live as women every day, or again just probably didn't know there was a difference between the two.
@@MoonwalkSA that makes sense. Maybe it’s Jamie’s mom that doesn’t understand either and why Jamie is always like “mom…” as if he’s explained it to her and she loves him but is a little misguided. I don’t know it that makes it more funny? Or less?
It’s interesting!
I think that cishet women in general are exposed to the taboo of any performance of the femininity or sexuality of women. Be it drag shows, burlesque shows, or strip shows. Personally, it might be envy I feel- maybe other women feel that too?
I’d love to be so comfortable and confident with my self to preform in any of these shows and not care about the taboo society puts on them.
Im AFAB non-binary and I grew up a tomboy. Over the last few years I have begun to embrace all sides of my gender identity: masc, fem, both, neither, etc. I’ve never been especially fem and I am definitely not masc. so this episode made me feel a lot of stuff. Mostly good from how accepting Peggy is
I don’t know you in real life, and can’t imagine you being malicious by any means, but the way I see it (I have a bias from being cis and straight and being skeptical of society/government), labeling the lack of feminine and masculine traits as some sort of non-binary proves the existence of some arbitrary gender binary that in the past it seems we’ve been pretty progressive about. People are allowed to be themselves, and I believe that these genderqueer labels are more outward and dissociative from your own identity, which is 👎👎
@@TheOnlyPedroGameplaysHow?
I don't even know what point you're trying to make, or how the binary is progressive in anyway, considering it's only been used to put people in boxes. Non-binary isn't neutrality, it can be anything. Gender identity is more complicated than that.
@@TheOnlyPedroGameplays I can’t speak for them, but I don’t think they’re labeling themselves as nonbinary *only* because of the lack of masculine/feminine traits. Being nonbinary is much more complex than that, similar to how gender expression =/= gender identity
@@10000_bees ohhh, okay, good to know. The way I process that is simple:
Why does it have to be like that? Where does our disconnection from our bodies and expression come from? We’ve been so involved with it for so long and it seems only recent.
@@TheOnlyPedroGameplays I’m not sure what you mean. Gender nonconformity has been around as long as gender has, and there have been different flavors of nonbinary people throughout human history, one example being 2-spirit people.
Gender is a social construct which people experience differently, at the end of the day
First saw this episode as an adolescent egg and absolutely loved it. Caroline is never attacked for humor, and the drama is driven by her relatable insecurity. Seeing people who I knew are like me looking up to Peggy was a scene that always stuck with me. Somehow I forgot about Caroline's mom though, and her lines nearly brought me to tears today.
I moved to San Antonio four years ago and as a non binary man I’d only had one trans friend in almost 40 years. After moving here I’ve met three friends who helped me get in touch with my non cis sides a lot more than my supportive friends in the past. Texas has come a long way, I think
Being scared to shop in person is so real. The fist time I shopped in the men's section, I was physically shaking. Now it's a lot easier, but I still avoid talking to other people while shopping lmao
I always had huge feet. Like at 11 my feet had their maximum size and it was 10 to 10 and a half lady, which isn't that formidable for an adult woman, but for a child... it was unusual for sure. No kids models were ever made for my size and I was always forced to wear adult shoes (and at the time of 2000s in regular stores, most adult shoes were the most boring models you can think of or high heels). So when this episode came out, it kind of felt like a relief. Like I wasn't the only one who faced hardships and it felt good to see it on TV.
Same, I could only wear kids shoes until I was nine
Relatable. But the plus side is that I thrifted a pair of forest green doc martens! No one else had them
Omg shoe stores like Payless (when it used to exist) were one of the places I didn't looked forward to during the early 2000's. During my teens, I couldn't help but notice the lack of inclusion of certain shoe styles that weren't available past size 8-8 1/2. Being size 9, there weren't much options other than plain, boring looking shoes (especially for formal events) that the one's I sought were either sold out in limited quantities or not available in other sizes. It used to be discouraging b/c it created a negative association that "cute shoes are only catered for smaller feet and more feminine girls".
People are saying the store name 'Clarissa's Closet' should be obvious, but the reality is that for decades, many secondhand stores would have a name, followed by Closet, and this would imply from the name that they dealt in secondhand goods. Though most are simple, one-person operations- my mother operated one for example, specializing in maternity and infant / toddler apparel and accessories, along with some toys- some are fully realized operations. For example, there's one where I grew up that's still in business called Plato's Closet, and as I described, they deal exclusively in donated and traded secondhand goods. The marketing for the 'X Person's Closet' naming convention is that you're getting stuff 'out of someone's closet', or in other words, that you KNOW you're buying secondhand.
As a NARRATIVE tool, yeah, it's foreshadowing, but it works with Peggy not piecing it together because of how the business naming convention works.
It always made me tear up to see Peggy at the end with the clothing swap. I really love the empowerment and feeling beautiful even when you don't feel like you fit the mold or the standard, and I imagine that's something every person can deeply connect with.
This always was one of the best Peggy-centric episodes of KotH. The next best being the one where she joins a book club. Most episodes, she's a very irritating no-nothing-know-it-all; but in the ones like this where she has issues and deals with them, then she is a very sympathetic and enjoyable character.
This episode resonates with me because I too am a ciswoman who often struggles with feeling "properly feminine". Tbh, the part where Peggy openly reveals the various scars and such on her body to her new friend is just goals to me.
Carolyn being supportive and nuturing to Peggy is so wonderful to see in a show like this. It was a little disheartening to see how harsh Carolyn was when telling Peggy she couldn't be in the show, but it was really nice that they were able to work things out like proper adults in the end. KotH may not be the best show to handle things like LGBTQIA+ rep (especially considering that "shim" crack they made in the episode where Hank breaks his nose), but taking into account the time it was produced, it's pretty fantastic.
Also Carolyn's mom is the GOAT and my sister and I still reference her to this day :y
YES!! I've been PRAYING for this episode and waiting for it to come, thank you for making it!!! This episode really made me think, and this being one of my favorite shows ever never expected it when I saw it the first time.
Super looking forward to your take and thoughts on this property from my early life.
I remember when this episode first hired and how wholesome it felt to me. I'm a cis woman that grew up a "tom boy" I've been called he-she, lesbian and more.
My mom was a bi woman that went by Chris instead of crystal and my parents never taught me to hate anyone for superficial reasons like identity, sexual orientation, race, religion, etc.
Growing up in NM I had bigger feet than the other girls as lantinas tend to be petite, so Peggy as a character resonated with me for several reasons.
As a kid it never occurred to that it wasn't "normal" for guys to dress feminine bc I preferred more masculine clothes and activities. Why wouldn't it go both ways?
It’s interesting that this episode was so affirming. In another episode (I believe it was the one where Lucky gifts a snake to Bobby, and Hank takes the blame for it escaping), Hank remarks that he’s getting more stares than the local bank teller who’s “in between genders.” They even cut to the bank teller as a visual gag later in the episode.
KOTH is a comfort show for me. I've seen every episode innumerable times.
I'm also trans queer. Most people see me and would describe me as a butch lesbian. It's fine. I'm not offended as I'm just glad when people make an assumption it lands close enough to what I am.
Peggy's struggles with the female image and where she differs from societies ideals has always resonated with me. It took me until my early 30s to break free from trying to look feminine and accept the fact that I am happiest with a mullet.
This was the comment I came looking for. Yes you are right SerPUNt is the episode, but I have been rewatching KOTH the last few years and I see the Teller and Carolyn show up in crowd shots.
@@oceanoflotion8630how do you feel about Hank's transphobic rant on season one deleted scenes? Or you don't count the dvd's features as part of the series?
I'm always puzzled by how people skip over the show being I'm general pretty bigoted except for a few episodes, so far I believe it's due to most gringos being so bigoted that anyone slightly less bigoted is seen as progressive, tolerant or supportive
Hank doesn't take the blame in SerPUNt, he is blamed by the animal control guys on TV and just never says otherwise or does anything to clear his name. It's just another horrid anti-worker episode where the animal control guys get blamed for the state not funding their program adequately by presenting yet again all gob workers as corrupt freeloaders. This series was a true shitshow
I love that the big twist is that Carolyn finds out that Peggy is a cis woman and not a drag queen and not the other way around at first
7:07 To be fair, there is a store we have in Texas called "Claire's Closet", which to my knowledge is not queer in any way. But that doesn’t change how overt it is here, haha
Same here there are a few places called Karen's closet and as far as I know it's just a consignment shop and not specifically queen in any way
There’s also Plato’s Closet. Don’t know if there’s any in texas tho.
Dammit Lily stop educating me, I'm going to turn into a good person if this keeps up
The ending in this episode was really heartwarming since Carolyn wanted to make sure Peggy knew she was valid and beautiful. I think it would be cool if Carolyn showed up in the series continuation since she definitely left a good impression in this one.
To be fair about Peggy's blindness, she didn't know John Redcorn and Nancy for like....17 years
I grew up watching episodes of King of the Hill and this episode is one of the ones that really stuck with me, especially as a young cis girl struggling with my own femininity at the time. I was always a little afraid to go back to it in case it wasn't nearly as kind as I remembered.
Same. I recall this episode as being so affirming & having a very uplifting feminist message about sisterhood among all women. ❤
I was so proud of this episode as a growing transman. Sure it's the opposite of my identity, being female-focused, but it was affirming to other people and helped my friends. I love it!
I'm honestly surprised by king of the hill, positively so. The supporting mother just rocks.
it has aged very very well
Episode on dales gay dad "My own private rodeo" is pretty great too
My fav part was that hank, after the initial shock of finding out hes at gay rodeo, gets over it quickly and is instead annoyed with his friends giggling over it so much. Hes such a wet blanket but its so endearing
It's a great show
@@kayla8402most of the show has aged like milk under the sun, not that single character tho, imo that supportive mom is by far the best character in the whole series.
I really liked this episode. And I thought it positively portrayed LGBTQ people, but I grew up in conservative Texas, so any portrayal of LGBTQ people was new to me. And this episode ended on such a high note. Loved everything about it
Peggy is oblivious and can be self-centered (depending on the episode), but she is *not* a bigot.
Great video, as always.
This is one of my favorites Koth episodes, I cry from happyness every time I watch it. Caroline is an awesome character and friend (too bad she/they/him doesn't appear again). And the cherry on top is how supportive Hank is. He maybe does not understand drag queen/trans people, but he know Caroline is a super friend for Peggy and it's all that matter for him.
By the way Lily, I love your hair.
Peggy was such a Karen, but her willingness to see the error of her way and change made her pretty darn likeable.
Depends on the episode but yep she had so many great moments I can't dislike her
Well, except for her horrendously overconfident approach to Spanish.
@@jordanjoestar-turniptruck she is a very good person in some episodes and a selfish bigot in most. Very critical support for Peggy
This episode meant a lot to me because im a big cis woman. I had and still have to wear "mens" shoes. My feet are only a 12 in women (compared to Peggys 16), but like, damn i felt seen. I was always taller and fatter than my friends, even some of the guys.
This episode came out wheh I was maybe 12? Pretty young and it helped laid the ground work of solidarity of the big queens out there, trans and cis solidarity for all the bullshit the fashion industry pulls on fem clothing.
This episode always felt clumsy but well intended. Def better than a lot of the adult animation was doing at the time. I do recall in a later episode where there’s a character who tries to encourage Hank in the episode “Bwah my nose.” Hank is scared and says “this game is forever” to which the character says “nothing is forever. I used to have a penis.” They’re saying this in a lobby at a surgical hospital which is the context.
After that, Bobby winces and says something to the effect of “I’m gonna remember that” and reacting with disgust saying “I can remember what…shim just said or you can make this game a good one” more or less. Bobby calling them “shim” and reacting with disgust especially to someone who was being supportive to Hank was pretty bothersome.
I could totally understand a child character with a limited understanding having a disturbed reaction at the cursory concept of a genital surgery, but the framing around that is the important part.
@@Manticorn Exactly. Also you can’t convince me that Bobby of all people would be transphobic. He’d be one of the most chill by far.
@@BlackAutMedia yeah it's confusing. He wore booty shorts. Maybe it was a different writer.
FYI, while the show isn't set in a specific real 'town'(Arlen is fictional) it is set within a very specific region of East Central Texas, the Texas Triangle(North of Austin and Houston, South of Dallas) with evidence putting it most likely around Killeen.
This is actually a common trend in Mike Judge and adjacent shows, narrowing down their fictional setting to a very specific area within a state, but not setting it IRL exactly. Beavis and Butthead is on the New Mexico-Texas border, we just don't know where exactly Highland is(though I think it's on the Texas side). Daria is set somewhere in the Main Line Triangle between Baltimore, Philly, and Harrisburg(most likely based on Lawnton, a Harrisburg suburb though).
king of the hill is actually getting a reboot on hulu and i think they will tackle more topics like this with a lot of grace and nuance. great analysis as always! ❤️
Billy Crystal lent a sense of gravitas to the role of Caroline, having played Jodie on Soap, as one of the early openly gay characters on TV. Of course, what that show said doesn’t perfectly mesh up with today’s standards, but he played an extremely important part of cinematic history that I believe King of the Hill honored by casting him for the part.
Honestly I really resonated with this episode as a kid at the time I had no idea I was a Lil egg but I did know I didn't fit in as a "woman" so seeing Peggy find herself it was empowering as a kid
I am so glad you touched on the way KOTH paved the way for Bob's Burgers as I have thought the same thing! Both are a more wholesome and character based approach to a family sitcom and both focus on different slices of the American experience. I really enjoy your videos as well as how receptive you are to feedback from your community. I find myself pretty consistently enjoying your content on Trans representation in media.
As a trans brazilian person, I didn't even find the name Clarissa's Closet weird until you pointed it out, here we have the same kind of name for stores lmao
damn, the mom talking at 18:37 almost made me cry, i did not realize how much i needed to hear that until i was watching this
I'm afab (trans-masc) and my feet are a size 12 us-sizes in ladies. When I still wore women's shoes it was impossible to find anything cute in my size and that's not even that big IMO
trueeee i feel your pain
going to womans part in the shop theres either cool shoes that dont fit or idk, old people shoes to work in the garden in. good thing my family getting a little bit better about me being masc in front of them
Transwoman with size 12.5 feet, preach, sister. Preach.
Hey Im jealous! People who try to clock trans men (because their lives are boring) claim that ALL afab people have very small feet, so hey at least ur disproving them! I wear mens 7 so I get conscious of it. Which is funny, as a kid I was scared of growing big feet, now i’m wishing I did!
AFAB nonbinary size 13 US women’s shoes here.
@magenstaffarts oof that must have sucked growing up
I love how nuanced and personal this episode is. Both Caroline and Peggy are approaching things genuinely from their own experiences, and both the conflict and its resolution are tied directly to their evolving friendship. It feels more like a real-world anecdote than a script.
Your videos are always so insightful and informative. I love to watch your channel with my coffee in the morning! ☕️
this is such a sweet episode. also i love Caroline's voice it's so soothing! thanks for the in depth analysis
king of the hill is one of my all time favorite animated shows. Mike Judge is honestly one of the greatest comics of our time, which is weird because he made Beevis and Butthead, but hey I guess that just shows how well he can deconstruct these aspects of modern culture and distill them into such sinple yet nuanced forms.
This video is bringing back memories of my mom telling me about a drag show she helped her friend get ready for. Apparently they had a great time laughing getting drunk doing hair as my mom was a hair stylist and her friends did his makeup beautifully. Then he got his dress on and had the time of his life. He was great from what my mom said. She told it to me with pride specifically for him bc it was his first show and was scared
This is kind of what I feel like with my mom and sister. I'm trans masc, but talking with them about gender is great for them too. I think my trans identity helped my mom identify with her genderidentity as a (cis) woman more. She tells me about how a specific outfit makes her feel feminin and how she disliked that when she went on a pilgrimage for 3 month she only wore sporty more butch close. That gave her dysphoria and when she went into a city she just get herself a pretty summer dress. She says she wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for me. She would have just dismissed her feeling but I showed her how important to is to recognize these feelings and how happy it makes you to act on them.
as a trans man, i am small for a woman and very small for a man. i am 4'9 (144.78 cm) and it does suck a lot. i have gotten better and have accepted myself to some degree, but the struggle is still there. it makes it feel like i will never be perceived as male.
Your videos about trans rep in media have been a huge comfort lately
Big agree here!
When I was a younger egg, who was still trying to "Fit in" with the girls around me, Peggy really spoke to me. I've been overweight my entire life, so most "in" clothes didn't fit me. I had to shop in the Woman's sections of clothes and shoe stores from a young age. Hell, even now I have to special order tall boots online because most stores don't sell tall boots that fit my calves. This episode helped me feel a bit better about my body at the time. But as a openly transmasc, Enby, this episode still moves my lil queer Texan heart.
I've never seen this episode but I have always adored KotH so much. Also never been this early to one of your videos. They're great analysis videos. Thank you
Here's one for you. A trans episode (or segment) on Unsolved Mysteries. In the first season (1989) they did a segment on Liz Carmichael, a trans woman who ran a notorious and very successful scam for a supposedly hyper efficient car "The Dale"
It was believed by many at the time that Liz was just a man dressing as a woman as some kind of disguise or part of the scam, or for other nefarious reasons.
Unsolved Mysteries did treat the reveal of their trans nature as a bit of a twist, but all in all they were shockingly good about it, even mentioning that according to Liz she was in hrt in preparation for a sex change. They referred to her as 'her' and by her chosen name the whole time, even after 'the reveal' treating her birth name as an alias. Even witnesses they interviewed who knew her didn't misgender her and one even said "She was always a woman to me, still is a woman as far as I'm concerned." They just treated her like a person and I was shocked lol
Yay, another!
Another one
Lily’s on that grind
Carolyn essentially invited Peggy to the cookout without knowing who she was or asking permission. One thing I love about the conversation around gender identity and queer culture is the fact that it's really universal, but no one wants to put themselves that far outside expectations to connect with it.
I am so glad I found this channel, it's so great!! I do wish Carolyn had made a few cameos as Peggy's friend after this.
I remember always feeling for Peggy after this episode cuz I remember being 10 years old and having to move to adult sized shoes. When I was 10, there were no pretty or cool looking tennis shoes for grown women. Nowadays they have all sorts of cool or pretty shoes, even light up ones, but not when I was a child. So I really identified with her struggle.
Aside from Khan's voice actor this show aged alot more gracefully than expected
What’s wrong with khan’s voice?
It's a White guy doing a Yellowface voice, it was a solid preformance all things consider, but that replacing the actor is like step one@@rustyshackleford234
@@rustyshackleford234voiced by a white guy
@@otakon17 always thought cotton sounded like Kahn sometimes lmao
@@Tacom4sterI know it’s wrong but he did a good enough job where I didn’t even know 😭
Trans women aren’t the only identity RuPaul has excluded. Drag kings (and other AFAB participants) are shut out too, IIRC because “they aren’t transgressive enough”. Ironic for someone who said “we’re all born naked and the rest is drag”. Like AFABs never had to fight to wear masculine-coded clothes? I personally am tired of drag queen culture being so hard to avoid, while drag king culture is so hard to find at all.
I’m AFAB. I had to convince my mom to let me shop in the boy’s section as a teen. I would try on a dress, and like the dress, but also feel confused because I saw a man in a dress in the mirror. I’m AFAB and feminine clothes felt like drag! Since I’ve had HRT, and have a deepened voice and facial hair, I feel more comfortable wearing dresses and makeup, because people perceive a man in drag, not a gender-conforming cis woman. I may be AFAB but does that make me rocking a dress any less transgressive?
This is completely off topic, but lily, you look great with purple hair (ngl i also have purple hair, tho only half my head lol) i also think a deeper, reddish purple would look effing stunning with your complexion.
(Sorry, ive had the thought she would look great with purple hair and now that i see her with purple hair im like, yaas, incredible. I love it lol)
Also, i effing love this series.
They upped my estrogen and spiro this week after starting HRT in June. This video made me cry. I think it might be working!