you know, you have enlightened me to why a lot of older people and people in general cant get behind shows like its always sunny or trailer park boys. because its a TV show/movie. they assume that the protagonist is somehow going to make it out at the end okay, or be the good guy. but they can never watch enough episodes to get too the stuff they would find funny. always sunny really is one of those shows you just gotta sit down and get through the first two seasons till you reallly understand whats happening. and the crew really started figuring out what they wanted to do with teh show.
@@beatles42ohgg94 Always Sunny doesn’t really come into its own as a satirical show until the 4th season when DeVito’s hair gets crazy and he starts wearing the big frame glasses 😂
I love that Carmen is one of the only characters to have a brush with the gang and actually come out the other side completely untouched and even better off. She's left them behind and is now thriving, escaped their vacuum of disaster. Sadly the same cannot be said for the likes of Rickety Cricket hahaha
She wasn’t in later episodes because the creators changed their views and know there is no way they could include a trans character that pokes fun at her without making people lose their mind.
@@DynamiteProd What views did they change? It was clear that Carmen was just an outlet for Mac to express his homosexuality while still maintaining his Christian, bigoted outlook. After she found a husband, it was clear that Mac was hurt, though I think when they did show him they hadn’t decided to fully lean into Mac being gay, as he said he asked Carmen to call him back after she got her bottom surgery (which, luckily, she didn’t)
It's Always Sunny is the only one of those "well we make fun of everybody!" or "well the characters are supposed to be bad, so of course they'd be bigots!" shows that feels like it actually understands what those 2 things mean. Instead of being a show that makes fun of everyone, but just *happens* to make fun of minorities a hell of a lot more, or have the character be bad people, but also be constantly praised or rewarded
i think it's because minority characters are usually side characters so they don't have the redeeming plotlines main characters are given to add substance to the comedy, but sunny doesn't care about developing it's main characters either. it feels less 'here's a trans person for a one-off gag that means nothing to the plot' when all the main characters mean nothing to the plot
People who use "they make fun of everyone" as an excuse never seem to acknowledge that some jokes are supportable and some just... aren't. They tend to be the same people who think that the "coward's defense" "IT'S JUST A JOKE" thing is a get-out-of-jail-free card, when declaring something to be a "joke" means that you actually have to explain what the joke was. People who were actually telling a joke can always do that; cowards who are trying to hide bigotry by pretending they "didn't really mean it" after their audience disagrees, never can.
@@bumblerbree Maybe, but making minority characters side-characters without redeeming plotlines is its own kind of bigotry, so I'm not sure that saves anyone. And the joke with Carmen isn't about Carmen herself, but about how the reaction to her by the Gang reveals how awful they are, which is demonstrated in how they're punished for that awfulness (eg Mac gets beat-up, Dennis is further confirmed as a shallow sociopath who will never fill his "God-hole" because he can't bring himself to evaluate his own assumed perfection and thus really understand and love himself as a person, and hence lives in an eternal self-created Hell of loneliness and insecurity). The characters who don't choose to hate Carmen because she's different from them, like Charlie, Dee, and (IIRC) Frank, come-out fine on that count.
I think because the show is made by people who don’t want to punch down on minorities. Some don’t give a shit if they punch down, some probably enjoy it. And use “equal opportunity offender” type excuses to cover for it. But at Sunny they can write a joke about minorities, and the punchline is always at the expense of the gang.
my favourite thing is when that group of dudes that watches Mac punch Carmen learns she's trans and their instant reaction is "Oh dude thats totally a hate crime" and chase after him for it... really funny reaction from a bunch of dude-bros who in any other show would be framed as equally transphobic and also this shows that Mac's attitude is not correct towards Carmen
@@ChrissaTodd Plus they did regret casting Brittany Daniel as Carmen. Not because they disliked working with her or her being a poor actor. It was more that they realized that they should've hired an actual trans actor for that role. So this is kind of their ways was to make amends off that by writing her out.
When it comes to trans characters being portrayed by cis actors, I much prefer a cis actor who shares the character's identified gender, not their AGAB.
I agree, the best case scenario imo is a trans actor playing a trans character, but id rather see a trans woman being played by a cis woman or a trans man being played by a cis man than a trans person played by a crossdressing cis person.
As an actor and a queer person, I don’t mind cis people / straight people portraying trans/queer characters as long as it’s done respectfully! I think anyone should be able to act in any role (outside from race specific roles in which cultural significance is important) because acting is all about learning to become something different from yourself! That being said the priority in casting should be looking for someone who exactly fits the role (the characters sexuality/gender identity being the same as the actors) and only deviating when necessary.
I was never sure of whether the actor who played Carmen was cis or not, but she is one of my all time favourite characters. I love that she's written as being so kind and understanding, and it reflects that mac is the one with the issue. I also love her husband and how he just constantly reaffirms that Carmen is a woman, again just reflecting that mac is the weird one and the one with the issue. Idk I just love the storyline, they handled it with care and didn't give a shit if transphobes got pissed! It would have been awesome if the actor was trans, but I think the audience not knowing is great. Cause it brings it back to, who cares what her agab is? She's a woman.
@@georgesmith4307 y'know I have a weird opinion here, but lemme explain. I don't dislike male actors cross dressing to play as a trans woman because some trans people do not pass as well as others and giving them humanity unlike other media is really nice. I'm a trans woman and I haven't really been able to get estrogen or any surgery to pass, some people either can't or won't because they don't want to. But I think the main goal is really normalizing trans people to those who still see us as well, anything but singular people.
as a bisexual guy, I didn't expect the whole Mac interpretative dance scene to be the way it is, even given the general representation of minorities in the series, but damn, was that handled beautifully. I cried, tbh.
and i love how it’s 100% sincere, and how it comes from his life experience of having a single mother so he always had to use the women’s restroom with her growing up, and therefore looking more feminine just made people ask less questions. like charlie you are so fucking dumb that the conclusion you reached from that experience was “pooping transgender,” but that doesn’t mean your experiences and feelings that led you to that are invalid. the definition of “he’s confused but he’s got the spirit.”
Generally when queer characters disappear from a story is kinda shitty. But in this case its the only happy ending, they become parents and never have to deal with the gang
And that's not the only sweet thing. The baby they use in the show is actually the baby that the actors who play Dee and Mac had. So Carmen and her husband are basically chosen as the vehicle to show off their baby and how much they love it. The way the camera lingers on "Mac's" face longer than they do on any of the other guys, and the way he looks at the baby with true love in his eyes, kind of adds weight to the whole thing bc they normally don't have that kind of seriousness, especially around love. And as terrible as the characters all are, they even admit that Carmen and her husband would be better parents than they ever could. So the Easter Egg with Mac's face, the fact it's the actors' actual baby, that they bring Carmen back when she hasn't been in the picture, and them admitting what good parents they'll make (when they're normally selfish, unaware a-holes who think they know and/or can do anything better than anyone else *and* Mac is resentful Carmen ended up with another guy), all make me think they put a lot of thought and were very deliberate about how they wrote that.
It makes sense for always sunny tbh. The whole show is about the weirdos who inhabit a bar for fun and friendship **ALL** day. These aren't average Americans, they're the silliest assholes to exist and it feels like a sitcom dealing with 2 groups. Them and the real world, where they're often wrong and challenged to do right but they refuse to. That's how the characters grow here, by rushing headfirst into stupidity and realizing it's not at all a good outcome. And I sympathize lol, I've made many dumb mistakes by not watching my mouth or getting too wacky trying to make a joke. It's a good example of how to be funny even if you do what you're not supposed to, and shows how wild life can feel if you refuse to acknowledge that other people have good ideas and you can't just change them bc you *want* it to happen.
I'm actually blown away that it's "the t word" now because I know so many people proudly calling themselves trannies. But yeah, the way it's used in the show is definitely not a good way to use the word irl.
@@ssgoko88 that's kind of reclamation though right? I imagine they probably wouldn't be okay with being called it by cis people. But maybe not, as things get a bit more normalised it's possible for it to just re-enter the lexicon in a non-derogatory way.
"You can't hit a woman!" No she's a guy so it's OK "YOU CANT HIT A TRANS WOMAN!" It's such a funny progression of making Mac look bad to making him look even *worse*
there's something extremely ironic about how a show with arguably the most toxic friend group in existence manages to have a very good track record with positive representation
A detail I really liked in the bathroom episode was when Danny Devito's character kept using some outdated terms for people and the other's kept correcting him and his response was to throw up his hands and say "why do I have to keep learning new things?" Which, I thought was a very clever way to push back against people who get upset when new terms are introduced
That is one of the best parts of IASIP. The actors are all quite talented. In comparison to a lot of other Sitcoms, minus some of the all time greats, they are generally much more skilled. It gives breadth to their performances, where they are much more than being one note. They all commit to their scenes hard and without holding back, and it comes out extremely well.
The trick of It's Always Sunny is that the gang members are the bottom of the joke. Yes, Dennis is abusive towards women, but the joke is that he is a predator, rather than it pulls it off
Yep. It's the same reason that Blazing Saddles still holds up despite being full of, y'know, horrendous racism. It's because the racists, and the concept of racism, are the butt of the joke.
It's like that Mel Brooks philosophy. If you bring comedy into a lynch mob, his direction would be to make the mob into a bagful of idiots while the subject of their bigotry scrams.
I know it's not quite the same but mac's real life mom is a lesbian so gay representation has always mattered to him and it seems the gang overall doesnt care about his sexuality it's him being closeted that gets to them, as they're cool with country mac being gay, whom they also consider a badass, until he dies embarrassingly and is no longer a badass.
I love how Philly puts the lie to the conservative gripe that “You can’t joke about anything anymore!” No, actually, you *can* joke about anything. _Anything!_ Even cishet white guys can joke about anything and be enormously successful and acclaimed for doing so! What you _can’t_ be is *harmful,* which is ultimately what conservatives are really complaining about. (Also, this is just a fantastic analysis and I’m thrilled to have found your channel.)
I think IASIP might even be the latest example of blackface without the actors getting fully canceled for it. NOT saying actors should go and try it, but to your point.
@@katziyin I think it's also hugely because of how it's explained here. We know the characters are just the worst kinds of people. They are meant to be awful. I think one episode I can think of that got canceled, despite the entire point of the character being to show how tone deaf he is to reality was Professor Chang in Community, when everyone removed the D&D Episode because of Chang's "Blackface", despite the fact that it's meant to be a joke about how he's so out of touch, he wouldn't see how painting himself black to represent a Dark Elf would be seen by everyone else in the world. But so often, with Conservative comedy, it's this "woah is me" take from someone who is punching down with their jokes, or is just lamenting having to share the world and rights with people that they didn't have to deal with before. It's not them being shown as out of touch and wrong because they have gay neighbors, it's them lamenting that their gay neighbors make them uncomfortable and they're supposed to be pitied, and the audience is supposed to think they are suffering. Not that they are in need of readdressing how they see the world. Or Conservative "stand up comedy" which just seems to be wanting to mock and dump on ideas and then go "ugh, I'm being persecuted because I bitched about pronouns in an email signature ruining my life".
This video is fantastic and well researched. I always thought Carmen was a great character with great character development I wish she was in more episodes. I think it’s hilarious how she doesn’t appear bothered by macs bigotry she just wants to bang him and she moves past it immediately saying “I see you at the gym all the time you’re ripped” she’s one of the few characters that takes advantage of the gang and moves on when she finds out Mac isn’t the one for her. And she gets a happy ending without going down the path of cricket
I hate to burst your bubble, but there's a startling *lack of research* in this video. I considered not commenting on this video to avoid feeding the algorithm, but I feel like if I don't speak up, the problem with this video won't ever be pointed out. Carmen is a well-written character. I'm not disputing that. The crux of the argument laid out in the video is that the audience is supposed to know that the gang are the bad guys, and that it's spelled out that the audience is not supposed to root for them. It's a difficult line to walk, as is most satire, because if you make it too indistinguishable, like American History X, you instead pump out something that hateful people aspire to. The Producers is a fine example of a good satire. Of course, there are pieces that don't reach either of those extremes, and instead reside in some gray area of satire. Seinfeld and Always Sunny fit right in here. The problem with being in the gray zone is that you're going to appeal to the woke and the bigots alike -- the woke who are in on the joke, and the bigots who see an entirely different joke. I think this can best be exemplified by Lily's comparison to Seinfeld. In the end of Seinfeld, the gang gets arrested and goes to prison for their actions. They get an actual punishment and need to be better people. Do you know how this episode was received when it first aired? It was hated. Reviled. The audience was waiting for the moment where they'd be forgiven, or bust out comedically, or *anything* to let their perceived heroes escape consequence. They didn't see them going to jail as justified. Just like cops looking out for their own, Seinfeld fans were offended that there was a tangible and fantasy-shattering recompense for the gang's actions. Always Sunny follows the same outline as Seinfeld. The gang always gets forgiven. No matter how much they suffer in a single episode, they never lose the stability of their livelihood. They never lose the bar for longer than an episode or two. Everything, eventually, returns to the status quo. You could argue that that's because it's a sitcom and it needs to return to the status quo by definition of it being a situational comedy, but on a deeper, more parasocial level, it's because the bigots (and arguably some of the more woke) in the audience sees the Always Sunny gang as the heroes. And if their heroes faced real, lasting consequences for their actions, then you'd see the same negative backlash that happened with the Seinfeld gang's prison sentence. Just like Marvel superheroes never have to answer to the collateral lives lost due to some of the actions they take in battles on the big screen in the past decade, you see the same mindset: the people in the in-group must be shielded from lasting consequence. It's maddening seeing the characters of Always Sunny luck out of any reasonable consequence (e.g. the "is that a hate crime" dudebros beating him up instead of him being arrested). I grew up around people who act just like the Always Sunny crowd who also were rarely held reasonably responsible for their actions. They defend each other for their behavior. And now those same narcissistic people are fans of Always Sunny, applauding the comedy of the gang getting away with causing suffering to so many of those around them. I'm so thankful I no longer have to be around the people I grew up with, because it was a terrible experience. They hurt so many people in their wake. Like another commenter said, "I love that Carmen is one of the only characters to have a brush with the gang and actually come out the other side completely untouched and even better off. She's left them behind and is now thriving, escaped their vacuum of disaster."
@@SeppelSquirrelI don't think you can genuinely compare those movies and shows in that regard though. I totally get your point about how unfortunately sometimes even characters that seem to be clearly awful can still end up getting revered or end up with a fanbase that comes away with the wrong conclusions, especially if they're portrayed in a cool way. But for one thing, American History X and Seinfeld and Always Sunny are all completely different types of shows/stories. People glorifying the violence of the first one are likely going to be pretty deep off the right wing end already. I don't think the filmmakers can really be held accountable for the interpretation a group like that will have of their final product, especially when the movie ends with the protagonist losing the person thats most important to them after having all their views proven wrong over the course of the story. Yeah people could still come away with the wrong interpretation there but I don't think that's something we can really blame on the creators at that point. Seinfeld is a totally different beast because while, yeah, ultimately all being selfish and petty, none of the main characters in that show are white nationalists. And even here much of the comedy comes from the audience being in on the joke of just how unreasonable the characters often behave. They might root for them on one level but still be aware they're not amazing rolemodels. And any infractions they 'forgive' the characters for tend to be the sort of minor petty vendettas and fixations many Seinfeld episodes revolve around. Finally, Always Sunny cranks that same concept up many many notches to the point where the characters are pretty much all outright sociopaths. They're not cool badass tough guys that make any of their behaviours or ideas look desirable or smart, they're all deranged and spineless and hapless and literally don't even have consistent convictions viewers (conservative or otherwise) could truly relate to. In the very first season you have the same set of characters act like homosexuality makes them uncomfortable one minute but also being super cool with it the second it starts making them money, or Mac and Dennis flipflopping between their stances on abortion depending on whats more likely to get them laid and most beneficial to their personal circumstances. They're all huge hypocrites and frequently change their tune on any given topic mid episode. While it's true that they're never truly 'punished' for their awful behaviour by facing devastating longterm consequences that's kind of just due to the set up of the show, which needs to ensure they can continue getting involved in their insane shenanigans. (It also favours absurdity over strict realism, considering, for instance, the sheer amount of injuries and bizarre substance abuse and living conditions Charlie survives with only minimal consequences.) They might not 'lose' by going to prison for life but we certainly never see them /winning/ either, or become successful or have their awful behaviour pay off in the long term. They're still the same prospectless and isolated narcissists who literally only have each other and the bar.
@@SeppelSquirrelI hope that didn't sound like I was lecturing you or smth btw, just trying to explain my opinion! I do think it's an important point for some films and shows, specifically with a lot of action movies, and particularly 'rogue cop' action movies and shows that normalise all kinds of police brutality and constantly emphasise the idea that efficient cops get the job done 'no matter what' (even if it means essentially torturing a suspect for instance) and that only losers follow the rules. I think tons of viewers ended up internalising really messed up ideas as a result of those films and shows glorifying that type of behaviour and universally painting those types of cops as the good guys, incredibly cool heroes who win the shootout and get the girl at the end. I just feel like Always Sunny is a very different type of show like I explained in my other comment. I'm sorry to hear you grew up around people like that btw, that really sucks!
idk how to feel about her apathy to bigotry. maybe on one hand it's like the conservative fantasy of minorities not being upset about "jokes", but maybe it's just a sex positive woman who knows herself
Honestly when I heard first about Carmen and this show in general I thought she would have a horrible fate like most of the characters in the show, but it's nice to see her living a happy life in the end
@@ChestersonJack Artemis feels like a special case where she’s certainly one of the smarter people in the gravity of their black hole, but she also knows how to balance the line on not getting too close…which is joining into their shenanigans rather than fighting against them.
Fun fact: the entire reason trans laws in the UK are garbage is because one noble divorced a trans woman and wanted to get the marriage nullified from the start.
@@casinhamagica6383 I think that was one of Henry's reasons but it was also for and Reinforced by Elizabeth to control the people instead of the Pope controlling people, they would look to the Monarch
What I found very refreshing about Carmen on SUNNY is that she is never the butt of any of the jokes involving her - but instead, the gang (usually Mac in particular) is.
The very first joke of IASIP tells you everything you need to know about the gang and the show's humour: Dee walks in and says, "Guys, my new boyfriend is coming in, be cool, okay?" Then a black man walks through the door, and Mac, without hesitation, jumps up and says, "Woah, woah, we don't want any trouble!" He puts his arm around Dee during a painfully long awkward pause. The joke isn't black people, the joke is that Mac is an insecure racist.
@kvltslime2261 yeah, that's what always irks me about them banning all the episodes that involve the gang's racist characatures when the entire point in every instance they dress up as them is the painful display of their racism rather than actually promoting any harmful stereotypes. Edit: no clue where "each each services" came from, just came back a month later and edited it out.
@@kvltslime2261 and thats why it confuses me as to why conservatives love this show and claim its not woke because its edgy, even though the audience is supposed to think the gang is awful, conservatives don't
@@kvltslime2261 yes! its not punching down at black people, its punching up at racists. the bigots are the joke in sunny, the minorities they run into a regular or good people that have an unfortunate run in with the gang.
@@josgretf2800I think that’s because there’s a good majority of conservatives that see themselves in the gang, and don’t grasp the fact that they’re not idolizable people.
One detail i really love is that after the bathroom episode, the signs they land on stay there for the rest of the show. And they're just there and it's never mentioned, showing that the decision seemed to work
Thanks for making this video! I'm a cis guy from a rural town who growing up had never interacted with trans people, and looking back I really think that discovering the show in 2010 when I first moved away from home really did help me to understand the challenges trans people face and how trans people SHOULD be treated in society. It helped me recognize some of my own biases and misgivings about the trans community. I recently started a rewatch of the show and your video has really given me some new perspective on Carmin as a character and how the show discusses trans issues, so thanks again!
I always really enjoyed Carmen as a character in It’s Always Sunny, not only because she had autonomy and agency and stood up for herself against Mac and the gang, but also because she had an actual storyline that progressed over a natural seeming timeline and is one of the rare characters in the show that ended up with a positive outcome. Great video!
I love this video and always sunny. I wanted to add that there's a bit in "mac is a serial killer" where Mac is actually researching into SRS. It's kind of wholesome for a character like him to go out of his way to look into something like that. I also wanted to add that the way they handle Charlie's gender makes him kind of non-binary and he's iconic for that
Truly the best character redemption arc was Charlie. He went from a crazy drunk to one of the world's top researchers on Godzilla. Absolutely inspirational
i watched the "mac hates gay marriage" episode yesterday, and it was great. carmen is just a normal gal whos sick of the gangs shit, and she just so happens to be trans. also- the gang (at least in that episode) all uses her pronouns!! i mean yeah they use the t-slur, so i probably shouldnt praise them... but still. this show is so good istg
@@gaspardp7314 That's the thing about the gang, they're not necessarily "hateful", they're just the most selfish living organisms that this godless void ever spawned.
@@gaspardp7314 The gang's respect of Carmen gives off the same vibes as "Hey what pronouns should I use for you?" "She/her" "Good cos I'm talking shit about you"
@@gaspardp7314 i love how dee and dennis also compliment her appearance. its such a weird way to take a character that everyone calls the t-slur, but its great. like yeah they're point out that carmen is trans in the worst way possible, but they both think she's a woman still who looks attractive
I kind of look at the gang referring to Carmen in such a derogatory way as them hardly ever referring to people by their real names. If you break down the fact that they call Matthew 'Rickety Cricket' it's actually a horrible thing to call him. They still call Ingrid Nelson 'Fatty Magoo'. This is of course when they even remember the person at all.
I really appreciate you tackling this show in this way. Unfortunately a lot of people have been turned away because of the unsavory part of the fanbase much like has happened with Rick and Morty.
Exactly this!! Its the concept they discussed of idolizing the characters- the ppl that think of the IASIP characters as their "friends" or people to look up to are on the same level of cringe as ppl who think Rick is totally a good guy & the best character ever
@@loadishstone while I do love the characters, I would NEVER be their friends, want them in my life, or want to emulate them in any way. I think that's the difference. They are hilarious, but in a grotesque way. They have charming, endearing and even human moments, but they are always, in essence, circus freaks. It's a subversion of that idea actually. As in " the true circus freaks were the jerks after all ". And if you think about it, the "traditional freaks" (as in "people would consider them freaks 100 years ago", please don't misconstrue my words here 🙃) are usually the most redeemable characters, or the ones we ought to feel most empathy for, or just the most normal. Like Cricket and Carmen.
@@loadishstone It's not dishonest, if the show was irredeemably misanthropic and mean spirited I wouldn't watch it. It's a very funny show and the characters are very funny. Obviously there are things I like about the characters. That doesn't mean that the things I like are GOOD or things you should aspire to. That's the discussion here.
The only downside of Carmen being played by a cis woman, and talking about only surgery and not hormones, is that it didn't crack my egg at the time. But yeah, better than everything else at the time, since himym certainly did increase my eggshell's thickness.
I understand but realistically i just dont see any show of the time period being that real with it. It sadly was just flat out off the table for any show that was remotely mainstream.
He says he could "never" have kids. If he was trans then he could of had kids at some point. Its probably a medical condition. He still could be trans but its not likely imo
“Mack is a serial killer” was the first full episode of its always sunny I’ve seen. My housemates just put on a random episode one night, and I thought it was so funny. After my housemates came to apologize to me, but I interpreted the episode the same way you describe.
I always loved Carmen. I think she was the first portrayal of a transwoman that didnt make me feel uncomfortable and ashamed. When i was younger and in the closet i remember most representations of transwomen i saw were like cis dudes in drag with stubble or hairy legs. Or they looked super masculine but in a dress and it was done for laughs. Or they were kinda creepy and wayyy too flirty with dudes that were obviously not interested. Or they were dead bodies, victims of murder or drug addiction because they were like cheap sexworkers. Or they were the murderer themselves. And it just made my feelings of wanting to be a woman feel even more like... scary. I didnt want to be like that. I was scared people would think im a creep. that id never fit in or be accepted as a woman. That no one would ever love me or want me or respect me. But Carmen was like... Thats a transwoman id be proud to be like. People like her. Shes treated like a normal woman but she also can connect with men easily because of her past. Shes strong and confident and beautiful and charming. And shes not afraid of being herself. She stands up for herself. Maybe its just me being born in '95. But "the T word" wasnt something i heard a whole lot growing up. And i think i heard it most often in this show when referring to Carmen. And it made me kind of like the word. Because i like her. And it never felt like they were saying it with malice. After i came out i called myself "the T slur". I think it sounds cute. And it feels kind of empowering to own it. Im a proud T-slur. (Im not actually saying it here cuz im not sure if youtube will make my comment invisible if i say it) i know other people have their own relationships to that word, and im respectful of that. But personally i would like to see the trans community take that word back and make it ours.
Not necessarily take back but... i agree that it sounds kinda cute, and especially if you never had negative experiences connected with the word it's kinda easy to like?
first: congratulations on the gender, missy! im also a millennial and i remember what a shitshow mainstream shows were, so im really glad you found a role model that spoke to you :) also, you are in fact allowed to reclaim a slur for yourself. other trans women have irl i know! i mean i call myself a dyke all the time, bc i think it sounds cool. its about finding ur audience and how u use it. ps i love your username
I was so impressed with the bathroom episode when it first came out for what a natural fit the gang are to illustrate what a ridiculous debate it is to begin with while also landing on the right takeaway that “it’s literally a room people shit in, who cares?” and it’s honestly hilarious how it reflects on anyone who still crusades against gender neutral bathrooms that these awful people are able to come to that conclusion and they somehow can’t.
i’m a trans person and it’s one of my favorite shows. like seeing all the trans jokes well executed is a nice change from other medias attempts at the subject
I similar situation to this is in the IT crowd, where one of the characters dates a trans woman, and is disgusted when he finds out. The character is shown to be a horrible person, he sexually harrasses one of the main cast, he repeatedly says awful things, and so it's a part of that when he is transphobic towards this woman. She gets the chance to defend herself, if I remember rightly she full on fights him, and honestly as a closeted trans person watching that show it made me feel very happy.
Yeah that episode is weird bc even thought it's obviously coming from the angle of a transphobe, the woman is absolutely, 100% in the right. She discloses the fact that she's trans to Douglas almost immediately on the first date (who only keeps dating her bc he mishears her), she and Douglas have a wonderful time together, and the reason they break up is strictly because Douglas is transphobic. The end of the episode is him in bed crying that she's gone and exclaiming that "it's just not the same!" bc he can't enjoy what they used to do together anymore.
I never saw it from that angle until now. I’m glad to hear that another trans person could get some joy out of that episode and throw it back in Graham Linehan’s face lmao
Yeah, I always liked that episode personally. The character who is transphobic is a crappy guy in general. and the relationship is good, it's only the shitty attitude of the shitty character that makes a problem. Shame linehan is a piece of shit but the episode is fine imo.
I really believe that receiving some complaints about this episode is what caused Linehan to become the Head Boy of terfs. Probably Rowling too, white neoliberals love to turn on minorities that don't treat them like saviours.
I think its really funny that as soon as mac has a problem with Carmen the rest of the gang is super supportive of her and her husband. It really says something about the main characters and how they sort of exist to be in opposition to each other.
I got really obsessed with this show back in the day, right after lockdown, and I remember thinking at the time "well, this isn't the nicest way to refer to Carmen, but they actually.. didn't make her the punchline?" and it was a curiously confusing thing I wasn't sure how to put into words until now, so great video!
"It's okay, she's actually trans, so it's fine that I hit her." "... Isn't that a hate crime...?" "Shit yeah, it's a hate crime!" Man, Always Sunny really is just the best, even without how based this is that's just such a funny scene. You're expecting the whole sitcom thing where people are misunderstanding the situation or where they don't believe Mac or something, but it's such a good subversion to have them actually call it out for exactly what it is in such a blunt way. Watching this and the How I Met Your Mother video back to back REALLY shines a light on just how much better the jokes are in this series. Nothing against How I Met Your Mother in general, but I'm just saying, you know? Subversion is a pretty good staple of comedy. And every joke from Mother just didn't really subvert anything? It's more like just a lot of sudden surprise disconnected "Isn't this a funny thing this guy just said" moments. Which is fine, but not exactly that well-made as a bit, I think.
Top notch essay! I think you did a really good job putting into words why this works so well as representation, despite the main characters doing/saying things that would promote transphobia in another show. I always really liked Carmen's introductory episode, I felt like the writers were also trying to imply that if Mac wasn't bigoted he could have been really happy. He obviously liked her a lot and enjoyed spending time with her, the show made it clear that the only thing stopping Mac from actually having a good relationship with a great woman who really liked him was his own transphobia.
yeah!! it feels like the episode of the IT Crowd where Douglas dates a trans girl by accident cause he mishears her when she is open about it on their first date. he's really happy with her, and what gets in the way of it is his transphobia (he's also shown to be a womaniser, sexually harasses the IT gang throughout the show, and is generally a shitty person lol)
The only problem I see with this is, given the amount of people who defend Bojack Horseman, or Walter White, or Rick Sanchez, or Eren Yeager, or any other protagonist that is the bad guy, I'm sure there's a whole group of "the gang did nothing wrong" people who don't get the point...
@@terpsidance. IASIP avoids some of that blowback by making sure the gang never looks cool. The reason shitty characters often get apologists is because people will focus on the aesthetics and think being a jerk is clever and exciting. Whereas the Gang are broke, incompetent, and embarrassing at best. The show really hits you over the head with it.
It's Always Sunny is one of those incredible examples of how you can still tell jokes and not be canceled like every hack comedian says now(Dave Chappelle... lol) Bill Burr is another perfect example. There are many awkward moments on his podcast when a conservative writes in and has realized they've been duped into believing he is racist by his Boston accent. The humor is saying or doing the worst thing possible, or being the worst person possible, in order to mock it. It's a lot like what happened with Machiavelli. His writings were all critiques/jokes hidden as praise so he wasn't decapitated. I'm glad the algo picked this up
Same is true of Anthony Jeselnik and more recent Frankie Boyle, who I always use in combo with IASIP to take down that cancel culture bullshit from hack comedians.
@@falconeshield I'd actually say that women are much more harsh on trans women in particular. However you will see a lot examples of cis men doing that because we run the world lol. Luckily the newer generation is much more progressive.
I haven’t personally watched it’s always sunny, it’s not for me, but I’ve come across enough of it on the internet over the years to recognise the same thing you do, which is that having the main characters be consciously, purposefully, intentionally terrible people means that even if they do offensive things or have offensive attitudes, which they do, the show never condones them or acts like they are in the right, and that means they can get away with so much, from what I have seen I think there are other reasons why they have some relatively good representation as well, but that concept really does a lot of the heavy lifting
@@loiracitr yeah that’s what I was aiming for, the characters being the way they are is one part of it, the rest is on them actually being intentional in how they portray minorities because they care about getting it right
Id be interested in your take on the trans character from "Alice in borderlands" who while played by a cis woman, is also played by that cis woman pre transition
I mean the guy who plays Dennis was openly antivax before 2020 and went totally silent on that without ever saying he might have been wrong sooooo But I agree on the others tho they're great
@@praticle Yeah, it was a bit of a meme before covid. Being anti vax is something Dennis would totally be (and was), so the idea that his actor was showing glimpses of Dennis's behavior was funny to see. I think the way the IASIP team had to look at and naviagte the show during covid caused Glenn to look into himself and reavaluate his beliefs. Hopefully he changed, and it seems like he did.
this is a very good video essay, i always knew carmen was a good representation of trans women in media, especially adult media of the early 2000’s as a trans woman myself and a fan of always sunny, those writers have my respect for being based as hell irl while writing the most awful characters in existence
I feel like the thing where the audience should always like the main characters in sitcoms is a very US thing, British sitcoms are traditionally full of objectively awful people who you're not supposed to like. It's why they never managed to make a US version of Red Dwarf (and just made several awful pilots) and why it was a struggle to get the US Office off the ground
yeah, british comedy and david brent-style humour is what allowed me to easily get into sunny and not get overly shocked/offended at how unlikeable the characters were. i can imagine that for people who only grew up with US sitcoms, sunny might put them off a bit
This video reminded me that you’re a really good writer (all of your videos do, it’s just been a while since I’ve watched one). I hope you get the recognition you deserve for the work you put into these videos.
i have been watching the show recently and i think the reason the gang refers to carmen as "the [t slur]" so consistently is because they don't know any secondary character's names, like the waitress - the love of charlie's life, the center of many episodes - doesn't even have a name because they care so little about her. if they had known how offensive the slur was at the time, they probably would have called carmen "trans girl" or something rather than her name
I was just watching your HIMYM video and was thinking "someone should do a video on Always Sunny, I seem to remember that being good"...and lo and behold.
i feel like a lot of people don’t realize that rob mcelhenney’s mom came out as gay when he was really young and his two brothers are also gay. of course that doesn’t mean he’ll automatically get trans representation right but i think it certainly helps
ok so I haven't actually seen the show, so the "that's why I hate valentines day and THAT'S why I put ANTHRAX in the box" caught me SO fucking off guard lmfao, laughed so hard my brother came to check if I was okay 😂😭
I think the only inexcusable example that wasn't mentioned is the zoom in on her "bulge" in her initial introduction. After Mac says, "I'll give you a call," the camera does the zoom as a sort of "look what Mac is in for here" shot. At that point, no character has prompted the camera to do that so to me it really only comes off as a punch down straight from the writers/directors. I could be overthinking it but the shot is just completely in your face and I've never seen any comments on it. I love the show but its one of the few moments, if any, that left a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I agree. It definitely gave me a kind of, "ick, was that really necessary?" feeling. I think *maybe* they were trying to establish the point that Mac is both aware of and bothered by the "bulge" from the beginning bc he's worried about what his friends might think, but he still gets involved with Carmen. However in that scene Dennis and Dee tell Mac that Carmen is Trans, so that shot isn't necessary. Plus we end up understanding all of Mac's conflicting feelings about wanting to be with Carmen, but worrying about what his friends will think through what he says and how he acts, without needing to focus on a trans individual's genitalia. Not to mention they made the "bulge" super obvious/exaggerated, which leans much more towards a comical angle. The emphasis almost seemed like they were making the visible "bulge" (a trait that Carmen explicitly says she wants to change through SRS) and therefore Carmen's inability to "pass", as she clearly is attempting to, a joke. Which is the one point at which I felt like they were almost making her the butt of the joke. The one other thing I wish the show had done differently was somehow address how Mac turning out to be gay relates to his relationship with Carmen. It seems pretty apparent that he was initially written to be straight, which made sense with his relationship with Carmen. But once they decide to have Mac be gay (and clearly not bi bc we see him show disinterest in women to the point of putting on a show to make the gang think he's seeing a woman) they needed to find some way to address the transphobic ideas around het men who date trans women. They could've dealt with this in a variety of ways. Mac showed interest in cis women earlier in the show, so his sexuality could've evolved over time. They could've also decided to have his character be bi, but leaning more strongly towards an interest in men. I just think that the whole storyline of a closeted gay guy dating a trans woman (who he was obviously legitimately into) ends up feeding into a lot of transphobic stereotypes, like trans women not being "real" women, het men dating trans women being an indication they're actually into men, etc. Since the storyline ended with Mac at a different place than initially intended I get that it entirely changed the situation, but once that happened I think they should've done something to resolve that change.
That's a really keen observation! Yes! The camera is often a character of its own, especially in hand-held camera sitcoms like Always Sunny. Especially because the "camera/narrator" character is typically responsible for making the gang look bad. For example, when the title card drops, it's usually a riff on something that one of the characters just said, leading to comedic editing. But when the camera zooms in like it did there, it's behaving on behalf of Mac, which is a bit jarring compared to how it's normally used. You could potentially view this as the show joking about how trans characters are unfortunately often portrayed in sitcoms as "traps", but I don't think that's the case. Another comment said that they recovered well from this, and I agree, but it does still leave a weird taste in my mouth. Especially when the fact that Carmen is trans gets shoved down our throats about 100 other times, that one zoom shot becomes super unnecessary.
I actually never wanted to watch iasif before, for many years. I only sat down to watch it a couple years ago and i just immediately loved it, i think they really nailed how absolutely horrible most sitcom characters are, but instead of being praised for it the gang gets what they actually deserve and i appreciate it
One of the many reasons I love this show is how it eviscerates typical sitcom gag formulae. The Gang gets called out for their sexism and transphobia in a way that doesn't punch down on the trans character or reduce her to a joke.
Love this video, IASIP is one of my favorite shows ever! On Charlie's "trans women when on the toilet" thing, I've seen some fan interpretations that Charlie might be nonbinary, and that if he was in a more accepting environment and not stuck around the gang's shitiness, he might actually come to identify as such. I think this is a really interesting theory, and I would love to hear what other people have to say about it.
@@ShelfHelpWhat? He takes his shirt off many times , one example off the top of my head being in 'The Gang Solves the Gas Crisis' when they are at the bank trying to get a loan.
Yet another reason I need to check out this show. Been meaning to for so long. Love these videos and really glad to see you got a sponsorship for this one!
Ur very fun to listen to when I'm crocheting!!!! As a person under the trans umbrella, u make me very happy!!! Please be safe, love your analysing skills, and please make more content!!! ♡♡♡
Always Sunny is the perfect example of "offensive comedy", because they don't punch down. They only punch up or even punch themselves (if that makes sense. like making fun of their own demographic of mostly white cis men). The decision to make the main characters absolutely terrible people is so genius because even if they're being unbelievably offensive and/or bigoted, it's always showing that they're in the wrong.
I love that even when the gang is somewhat right about something they get to that conclusion and beleive it for almost every wrong reason you could possibly think of for the issue they may be discussing
I had a really bad introduction to the series, the dance competition episode. It's one of the few episodes where the gang does, actually win, and it gave me the impression that the gang get to be awful with no concequences. It wasn't until much later when my partner had me watch some other episodes that I started to like it.
Not to long ago, I rewatched Ugly Betty for the first time in years. I was very worried about how badly it would've aged, in the time since I'd last watched I had family who'd come out as trans, and had transitioned myself. I had what I'd consider pretty similar feelings to the shows handling of things as I do to Carmen. Like, yeah, there are Issues, there's no point saying thhere aren't, but she's a well rounded character and once they're past the initial reveal, her being trans isn't really used as a dramatic twist. In fact, in one episode after she's in an accident and has forgotten everything up to a point prior to her transition (its a novela, amnesia has to happen) they play up an oh no, how do i explain to my sibling that they're a woman now.... only for her to be ecstatic and to just grin and grab her boobs and be so happy about it cause yeah, no drama there, she always wanted that. Awesome video!
Lately, I’ve started watching more videos about topics like this and yours is probably one of the best I’ve seen that tackles this particular issue. So many times, I see videos that talk about how a show was insulting to the LGBT community so it’s nice to see someone talking about a good representation.
I love Carmen so much, it rlly shows how basic a lot of trans woman are. I dress like a gym bunny 80% of the time and my bf is hefty and black too I also enjoy she came out on top, and had Allie’s that defended her In the streets even tho no one was in any danger
You wouldn't think a show about horrible people being horrible would do trans representation right, but Always Sunny is just pretty goddamned solid about this stuff.
Sorry, but isn't anyone going to talk abot the weird uncomfortable way that they portray Carmen in the first episode zooming on her croch and showing an erect penis, like... That was very uncomfortable to watch, the show is being transphobic in that moment, not only the bigoted characters, they are obsesing with the genitals of a transgender woman and showing them to try to shock the cisgender audience, also as a real trans woman, this is not realistic trans representation, just the amount of danger that a real transgender woman could suffer in a real situation if she was going around like that without any tucking and everybody could see that she is trans and the show ignores that and only wants the audience to clearly see her penis is creepy. Also wtf does she have to be hard all the time? It just bothers me that everybody is ignoring that, ok the show did some good things but let's not ignore the mistakes.
The early appearances of Carmen still brush me the wrong way. The way the gang treats her is to be expected. But it's the way the camera focuses on her that feels childish and possibly transphobic.
This made me want to reconsider the show. I’ve always found it pretty overstimulating & essentially just horrible people yelling at eachother - but I’ve never really given it a chance as being intelligently written. Thank you for the analysis ! Always looking out for better trans representation in media … hard to find
I saw your HIMYM video and was very curious about IASIP! So I'm glad you made this video. I'm cis and want to be more aware of experiences of trans people and representation in media. Thanks Lily.
6:14 when Mac did that dance, it was one of the few times I cried. It was so beautifully done, and still his father rejects him. God DAMN that tore my heart. Even tho Mac is a terrible person, you still feel for them time to time. Like even Charlie. From time to time I forget how s***y of a person he is until he rejects that girl. I wanted to go through the TV and punch him lol. But that's the idea. Just sometimes you forget lol 😆
Literally every joke involving Carmen is about how stupid Macs bigotry and ignorance is. They depict her as a pretty, charismatic and fun girl who had a shitty boyfriend, broke up with him and moved on with her life
I know it's off topic a little bit, but I would like if shows represented Trans Men and transmasculine people sometimes, too. Just, would be nice, I think.
I like how she is the only person that actually gains something positive from the gang, dee giving her a baby and her walking away happy with her baby and husband. Its adtually so wholesome, which doesnt happen very often, if not at all.
It's funny to me that the shows with a reputation for being horrible, disgusting shows like IASIP and South Park handle social issues better than most family friendly shows do. South park, even though they're often hit or miss when they first introduce a character or issue, explore it over time with characters like Jimmy and Token since they're allowed to be more than just the cripple or the black guy.
Yesss such an important thing to mention. Sourh Park in particular gets very little credit for stuff like this because people take the bait most of the time and dont stay for the actual commentary.
hard disagree, south park’s “satire” is completely devoid of the same clear intent always sunny has, to the extent that any point they’re trying to make is muddied enough that it just comes off as plain bigotry, which regardless of whatever point they’re *trying* to make results in the audience coming away with the opposite message. like, the trans episode where the town has an epidemic of people getting surgeries to be dolphins or whatever is indistinguishable from the classic conservative joke of “oh i identify as an attack helicopter”. you would have to be extremely charitable to interpret that as anything else. south park is also just nowhere near as funny as iasip.
@@threegreenworms Yes, they've been off quite a lot but they are willing to change characters and their views when they realise they fucked up. Like with the ManBeaePig global warming metaphor.
I’d say Southpark is radically centrist. Their big brain moments are always within (or very closely adjacent to) wherever the acceptable discourse is at for the large majority of people born after 1970. It’s basically CNN with edgy humor. Like, I remember their first episode after 9/11, watching Cartman hunt Bin Laden like a Bugs Bunny cartoon, and thinking to myself, “Oh, wait, this is just… straight-up war propaganda.” _… that all said,_ yeah, I agree that they handle social issues better than most family friendly shows.
I've tried to describe before what exactly it is about IASIP's depictions of racism, transphobia, homophobia, and so on that doesn't feel the same as other sitcoms, and you've put it into words perfectly. This is a show about horrible people who live in a world full of normal people, and we're supposed to hate them. I think about Family Guy's trans character, Quagmire's mother, who has a lot of jokes made at her expense any time she appears. But with Family Guy, even though the characters are all unabashedly awful, the transphobia seems genuine, like they expect the viewers to go "it's so funny cause it's true." If IASIP characters made the same exact jokes, with the intention to laugh AT these backwards-thinking bartenders, it'd feel very different. Family Guy runs off "relatable humor", and Peter often talks directly to the audience, so they're characters the audience is supposed to agree with. It's just short of a laugh track away from going "laugh at this." But I also feel like Family Guy's characters each have one major thing about them that never fails to make them the butt of a joke, and sometimes that thing is just being trans, and that does not feel the same.
Watching the first episode where Carmen was introduced I legit rolled my eyes initially when mac said “she’s a dude, she has a penis”, I figured “it’s from a different era, can’t expect much.” When the two men observing Mac punching Carmen asked if that was a hate crime and chased after him I knew this show was going to be special ☺️
*When you're first talking about Carmen in her first appearance.* Me: Wow! That's awsome rep for an episode of a show that I have to Assume came out late 2000s or early 2010s 15:23 Wait. WHAT!?!? Holy shit, my respect for their portrayal of her jumped WAY up when you mentioned the actual year the episode came out.
Holy fuck. I've seen a fair amount of always sunny, but I haven't seen the bit with the anthrax in the box. I nearly died laughing for 2 minutes straight when that clip played
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you know, you have enlightened me to why a lot of older people and people in general cant get behind shows like its always sunny or trailer park boys.
because its a TV show/movie. they assume that the protagonist is somehow going to make it out at the end okay, or be the good guy.
but they can never watch enough episodes to get too the stuff they would find funny.
always sunny really is one of those shows you just gotta sit down and get through the first two seasons till you reallly understand whats happening. and the crew really started figuring out what they wanted to do with teh show.
By the way carbon offsets tend to harm the environment.
@@DOOF1 Ass. Hat.
@@beatles42ohgg94 Always Sunny doesn’t really come into its own as a satirical show until the 4th season when DeVito’s hair gets crazy and he starts wearing the big frame glasses 😂
"dude is that a hate crime?"
"shit yeah, it's a hate crime!"
all-time classic line
my brain when someone says smth jokingly mean about me, not even knowing im queer, trans, or jewish.
Me when I refer to myself as she/her even tho I use she/they pronouns
I love that the line is delivered by people who appear to be cis blue collar workers, just two regular dudes defending a trans woman, as they should
What season is that
@@imsotiredofthiscrap2341snap
I love that Carmen is one of the only characters to have a brush with the gang and actually come out the other side completely untouched and even better off. She's left them behind and is now thriving, escaped their vacuum of disaster. Sadly the same cannot be said for the likes of Rickety Cricket hahaha
She wasn’t in later episodes because the creators changed their views and know there is no way they could include a trans character that pokes fun at her without making people lose their mind.
@@DynamiteProd Did you even watch the video? Carmen was never the butt of the joke, Mac was because he was being an idiot to her.
Poor Cricket
@@DynamiteProd they were always on her side, even in the early episodes
@@DynamiteProd What views did they change? It was clear that Carmen was just an outlet for Mac to express his homosexuality while still maintaining his Christian, bigoted outlook. After she found a husband, it was clear that Mac was hurt, though I think when they did show him they hadn’t decided to fully lean into Mac being gay, as he said he asked Carmen to call him back after she got her bottom surgery (which, luckily, she didn’t)
Being from south philly I was always very happy that “two random philly dudes” were represented as punishing hate crimes
W
I think the joke was that they didn’t really care that it was a hate crime, they just want any reason to beat someone up
@@britch7286 also based
I think they were excited to beat the crap out of someone and not be punished for it cause they found someone who deserves it.
The Philly way. Seen enough fights in Philly where it was justified but some dudes just go all out.
It's Always Sunny is the only one of those "well we make fun of everybody!" or "well the characters are supposed to be bad, so of course they'd be bigots!" shows that feels like it actually understands what those 2 things mean. Instead of being a show that makes fun of everyone, but just *happens* to make fun of minorities a hell of a lot more, or have the character be bad people, but also be constantly praised or rewarded
THIS EXACT THING!
i think it's because minority characters are usually side characters so they don't have the redeeming plotlines main characters are given to add substance to the comedy, but sunny doesn't care about developing it's main characters either. it feels less 'here's a trans person for a one-off gag that means nothing to the plot' when all the main characters mean nothing to the plot
People who use "they make fun of everyone" as an excuse never seem to acknowledge that some jokes are supportable and some just... aren't. They tend to be the same people who think that the "coward's defense" "IT'S JUST A JOKE" thing is a get-out-of-jail-free card, when declaring something to be a "joke" means that you actually have to explain what the joke was. People who were actually telling a joke can always do that; cowards who are trying to hide bigotry by pretending they "didn't really mean it" after their audience disagrees, never can.
@@bumblerbree Maybe, but making minority characters side-characters without redeeming plotlines is its own kind of bigotry, so I'm not sure that saves anyone. And the joke with Carmen isn't about Carmen herself, but about how the reaction to her by the Gang reveals how awful they are, which is demonstrated in how they're punished for that awfulness (eg Mac gets beat-up, Dennis is further confirmed as a shallow sociopath who will never fill his "God-hole" because he can't bring himself to evaluate his own assumed perfection and thus really understand and love himself as a person, and hence lives in an eternal self-created Hell of loneliness and insecurity). The characters who don't choose to hate Carmen because she's different from them, like Charlie, Dee, and (IIRC) Frank, come-out fine on that count.
I think because the show is made by people who don’t want to punch down on minorities.
Some don’t give a shit if they punch down, some probably enjoy it. And use “equal opportunity offender” type excuses to cover for it.
But at Sunny they can write a joke about minorities, and the punchline is always at the expense of the gang.
my favourite thing is when that group of dudes that watches Mac punch Carmen learns she's trans and their instant reaction is "Oh dude thats totally a hate crime" and chase after him for it... really funny reaction from a bunch of dude-bros who in any other show would be framed as equally transphobic and also this shows that Mac's attitude is not correct towards Carmen
Seems pretty accurate for Philadelphia, though... see what happened when those "Patriot Front" doofuses tried to organize a march there lmao
The anti-hatecrime dude-bros are amazing fr
@@venticuiliar9136 Philly really is chaotic good sometimes.
Except, if he hit a cis woman, they’d be okay with it? That’s troubling.
@@JDMimeTHEFIRST what?
Honestly glad that Carmen left the show because it's most likely the only way for iasip character to have a good ending
Right the longer they stick around the more they descend into hell
@@GOLDFISH817 god bless cricket
@@amb600cd0 Eh, he was born that way
I don't think they are supposed to have a good ending. But I think they probably didn't want to overuse her, her story ended when she had the baby.
@@ChrissaTodd Plus they did regret casting Brittany Daniel as Carmen. Not because they disliked working with her or her being a poor actor. It was more that they realized that they should've hired an actual trans actor for that role. So this is kind of their ways was to make amends off that by writing her out.
When it comes to trans characters being portrayed by cis actors, I much prefer a cis actor who shares the character's identified gender, not their AGAB.
I agree, the best case scenario imo is a trans actor playing a trans character, but id rather see a trans woman being played by a cis woman or a trans man being played by a cis man than a trans person played by a crossdressing cis person.
There's stories to be told with both but yeah sometimes it can be easier to tell a story with what's/who's available at the time
As an actor and a queer person, I don’t mind cis people / straight people portraying trans/queer characters as long as it’s done respectfully! I think anyone should be able to act in any role (outside from race specific roles in which cultural significance is important) because acting is all about learning to become something different from yourself! That being said the priority in casting should be looking for someone who exactly fits the role (the characters sexuality/gender identity being the same as the actors) and only deviating when necessary.
I was never sure of whether the actor who played Carmen was cis or not, but she is one of my all time favourite characters. I love that she's written as being so kind and understanding, and it reflects that mac is the one with the issue. I also love her husband and how he just constantly reaffirms that Carmen is a woman, again just reflecting that mac is the weird one and the one with the issue. Idk I just love the storyline, they handled it with care and didn't give a shit if transphobes got pissed!
It would have been awesome if the actor was trans, but I think the audience not knowing is great. Cause it brings it back to, who cares what her agab is? She's a woman.
@@georgesmith4307 y'know I have a weird opinion here, but lemme explain. I don't dislike male actors cross dressing to play as a trans woman because some trans people do not pass as well as others and giving them humanity unlike other media is really nice. I'm a trans woman and I haven't really been able to get estrogen or any surgery to pass, some people either can't or won't because they don't want to. But I think the main goal is really normalizing trans people to those who still see us as well, anything but singular people.
The funniest thing about Carmen is how normal she is. She's one of the most down to earth, likable people in the entire show. She's awesome.
when getting into the show i was honestly shocked how much of the fandom were actually queer, but it honestly makes sense
as a bisexual guy, I didn't expect the whole Mac interpretative dance scene to be the way it is, even given the general representation of minorities in the series, but damn, was that handled beautifully. I cried, tbh.
Iirc mac's real life mom (and cousin or aunt) is a lesbian, so gay representation ( at least) has always mattered to him
As a queer woman I’m glad to be a huge fan. They frequently have a float (with the whole gang) at Philly pride in June!!
@@Asbjoern135 yeah, Rob's parents are lesbians
@@bewwybabe8045 I saw Rob at Venice Beach for LA Pride too, it was really cool!
"I poop transgender" is one of my fave Charlie lines ever. Really encompasses his character for me.
and i love how it’s 100% sincere, and how it comes from his life experience of having a single mother so he always had to use the women’s restroom with her growing up, and therefore looking more feminine just made people ask less questions. like charlie you are so fucking dumb that the conclusion you reached from that experience was “pooping transgender,” but that doesn’t mean your experiences and feelings that led you to that are invalid. the definition of “he’s confused but he’s got the spirit.”
so real
me too, charlie. me too.
How i feel after growing ass hair since ive been on t for 4 years LMAO
@@kaibaiarrio1299 WAIT IS THAT A T THING? WILL SPIRO HELP WITH THAT I HATE THAT SHIT SO MUCH
Generally when queer characters disappear from a story is kinda shitty. But in this case its the only happy ending, they become parents and never have to deal with the gang
And that's not the only sweet thing. The baby they use in the show is actually the baby that the actors who play Dee and Mac had. So Carmen and her husband are basically chosen as the vehicle to show off their baby and how much they love it. The way the camera lingers on "Mac's" face longer than they do on any of the other guys, and the way he looks at the baby with true love in his eyes, kind of adds weight to the whole thing bc they normally don't have that kind of seriousness, especially around love. And as terrible as the characters all are, they even admit that Carmen and her husband would be better parents than they ever could.
So the Easter Egg with Mac's face, the fact it's the actors' actual baby, that they bring Carmen back when she hasn't been in the picture, and them admitting what good parents they'll make (when they're normally selfish, unaware a-holes who think they know and/or can do anything better than anyone else *and* Mac is resentful Carmen ended up with another guy), all make me think they put a lot of thought and were very deliberate about how they wrote that.
frankly queer characters dissapearing in always sunny is a good thing because no one deserves to spend time with the gang
It's quite funny how a show that refers to their one trans character as the T slur in every episode she's in actually handles trans stuff quite well.
It makes sense for always sunny tbh. The whole show is about the weirdos who inhabit a bar for fun and friendship **ALL** day.
These aren't average Americans, they're the silliest assholes to exist and it feels like a sitcom dealing with 2 groups. Them and the real world, where they're often wrong and challenged to do right but they refuse to. That's how the characters grow here, by rushing headfirst into stupidity and realizing it's not at all a good outcome. And I sympathize lol, I've made many dumb mistakes by not watching my mouth or getting too wacky trying to make a joke. It's a good example of how to be funny even if you do what you're not supposed to, and shows how wild life can feel if you refuse to acknowledge that other people have good ideas and you can't just change them bc you *want* it to happen.
It's because the show fames it as saying more about the characters than the person it's directed at
Probably because the characters who call her that word are always portrayed as downright despicable human beings.
I'm actually blown away that it's "the t word" now because I know so many people proudly calling themselves trannies. But yeah, the way it's used in the show is definitely not a good way to use the word irl.
@@ssgoko88 that's kind of reclamation though right? I imagine they probably wouldn't be okay with being called it by cis people. But maybe not, as things get a bit more normalised it's possible for it to just re-enter the lexicon in a non-derogatory way.
the two rando characters being extremely offended at the idea of Mac committing a hate crime is one of my favorite moments from the show
"You can't hit a woman!"
No she's a guy so it's OK
"YOU CANT HIT A TRANS WOMAN!"
It's such a funny progression of making Mac look bad to making him look even *worse*
there's something extremely ironic about how a show with arguably the most toxic friend group in existence manages to have a very good track record with positive representation
In order to intentionally portray toxicity, you have to be familiar with what makes it toxic in the first place
Except for the uhhh 5ish instances of blackface
A detail I really liked in the bathroom episode was when Danny Devito's character kept using some outdated terms for people and the other's kept correcting him and his response was to throw up his hands and say "why do I have to keep learning new things?"
Which, I thought was a very clever way to push back against people who get upset when new terms are introduced
God the scene with Charlie in Ireland breaking down emotionally destroyed me.
Reminds me a lot of Bojack's free churro episode.
I legit started tearing up right when the clip started, it's that powerful
@@kinesin8221 same, he put so much emotion in those lines!!😭
i haven't even seen the show past season 1 and that shit made me tear up a bit. what a performance
That is one of the best parts of IASIP. The actors are all quite talented.
In comparison to a lot of other Sitcoms, minus some of the all time greats, they are generally much more skilled. It gives breadth to their performances, where they are much more than being one note. They all commit to their scenes hard and without holding back, and it comes out extremely well.
The trick of It's Always Sunny is that the gang members are the bottom of the joke. Yes, Dennis is abusive towards women, but the joke is that he is a predator, rather than it pulls it off
Yep. It's the same reason that Blazing Saddles still holds up despite being full of, y'know, horrendous racism. It's because the racists, and the concept of racism, are the butt of the joke.
Dennis is what you get if Barney from HIMYM got called out for his horrible behavior
“It’s the implication…”
“Dennis what the fuck are you talking about?!?”
It's like that Mel Brooks philosophy.
If you bring comedy into a lynch mob, his direction would be to make the mob into a bagful of idiots while the subject of their bigotry scrams.
He'd be perfect for a live action quagmire, god I hate quagmire
I know it's not quite the same but mac's real life mom is a lesbian so gay representation has always mattered to him and it seems the gang overall doesnt care about his sexuality it's him being closeted that gets to them, as they're cool with country mac being gay, whom they also consider a badass, until he dies embarrassingly and is no longer a badass.
You know what’s badass? Being alive.
@@ktozy2149😂😂😂
@@ktozy2149 wanna know what else is badass? Suicide
Rob also has a gay brother as well
I love how Philly puts the lie to the conservative gripe that “You can’t joke about anything anymore!”
No, actually, you *can* joke about anything. _Anything!_ Even cishet white guys can joke about anything and be enormously successful and acclaimed for doing so! What you _can’t_ be is *harmful,* which is ultimately what conservatives are really complaining about.
(Also, this is just a fantastic analysis and I’m thrilled to have found your channel.)
they tend to be complaining on giant stages with millions of viewers and millions more dollars, but yeah sure, you cant be harmful
@@sydssolanumsamsys what do they say that’s harmful exactly?
I think IASIP might even be the latest example of blackface without the actors getting fully canceled for it. NOT saying actors should go and try it, but to your point.
@@katziyin I think it's also hugely because of how it's explained here. We know the characters are just the worst kinds of people. They are meant to be awful. I think one episode I can think of that got canceled, despite the entire point of the character being to show how tone deaf he is to reality was Professor Chang in Community, when everyone removed the D&D Episode because of Chang's "Blackface", despite the fact that it's meant to be a joke about how he's so out of touch, he wouldn't see how painting himself black to represent a Dark Elf would be seen by everyone else in the world.
But so often, with Conservative comedy, it's this "woah is me" take from someone who is punching down with their jokes, or is just lamenting having to share the world and rights with people that they didn't have to deal with before. It's not them being shown as out of touch and wrong because they have gay neighbors, it's them lamenting that their gay neighbors make them uncomfortable and they're supposed to be pitied, and the audience is supposed to think they are suffering. Not that they are in need of readdressing how they see the world.
Or Conservative "stand up comedy" which just seems to be wanting to mock and dump on ideas and then go "ugh, I'm being persecuted because I bitched about pronouns in an email signature ruining my life".
@@aaronwhite1786 I should say, with the Community episode, it wasn't cancelled, Netflix just randomly took it down out of fear it *would* be
This video is fantastic and well researched. I always thought Carmen was a great character with great character development I wish she was in more episodes. I think it’s hilarious how she doesn’t appear bothered by macs bigotry she just wants to bang him and she moves past it immediately saying “I see you at the gym all the time you’re ripped” she’s one of the few characters that takes advantage of the gang and moves on when she finds out Mac isn’t the one for her. And she gets a happy ending without going down the path of cricket
I hate to burst your bubble, but there's a startling *lack of research* in this video. I considered not commenting on this video to avoid feeding the algorithm, but I feel like if I don't speak up, the problem with this video won't ever be pointed out.
Carmen is a well-written character. I'm not disputing that.
The crux of the argument laid out in the video is that the audience is supposed to know that the gang are the bad guys, and that it's spelled out that the audience is not supposed to root for them. It's a difficult line to walk, as is most satire, because if you make it too indistinguishable, like American History X, you instead pump out something that hateful people aspire to. The Producers is a fine example of a good satire. Of course, there are pieces that don't reach either of those extremes, and instead reside in some gray area of satire. Seinfeld and Always Sunny fit right in here. The problem with being in the gray zone is that you're going to appeal to the woke and the bigots alike -- the woke who are in on the joke, and the bigots who see an entirely different joke.
I think this can best be exemplified by Lily's comparison to Seinfeld. In the end of Seinfeld, the gang gets arrested and goes to prison for their actions. They get an actual punishment and need to be better people. Do you know how this episode was received when it first aired? It was hated. Reviled. The audience was waiting for the moment where they'd be forgiven, or bust out comedically, or *anything* to let their perceived heroes escape consequence. They didn't see them going to jail as justified. Just like cops looking out for their own, Seinfeld fans were offended that there was a tangible and fantasy-shattering recompense for the gang's actions.
Always Sunny follows the same outline as Seinfeld. The gang always gets forgiven. No matter how much they suffer in a single episode, they never lose the stability of their livelihood. They never lose the bar for longer than an episode or two. Everything, eventually, returns to the status quo.
You could argue that that's because it's a sitcom and it needs to return to the status quo by definition of it being a situational comedy, but on a deeper, more parasocial level, it's because the bigots (and arguably some of the more woke) in the audience sees the Always Sunny gang as the heroes. And if their heroes faced real, lasting consequences for their actions, then you'd see the same negative backlash that happened with the Seinfeld gang's prison sentence.
Just like Marvel superheroes never have to answer to the collateral lives lost due to some of the actions they take in battles on the big screen in the past decade, you see the same mindset: the people in the in-group must be shielded from lasting consequence.
It's maddening seeing the characters of Always Sunny luck out of any reasonable consequence (e.g. the "is that a hate crime" dudebros beating him up instead of him being arrested). I grew up around people who act just like the Always Sunny crowd who also were rarely held reasonably responsible for their actions. They defend each other for their behavior. And now those same narcissistic people are fans of Always Sunny, applauding the comedy of the gang getting away with causing suffering to so many of those around them.
I'm so thankful I no longer have to be around the people I grew up with, because it was a terrible experience. They hurt so many people in their wake.
Like another commenter said, "I love that Carmen is one of the only characters to have a brush with the gang and actually come out the other side completely untouched and even better off. She's left them behind and is now thriving, escaped their vacuum of disaster."
@@SeppelSquirrelI don't think you can genuinely compare those movies and shows in that regard though. I totally get your point about how unfortunately sometimes even characters that seem to be clearly awful can still end up getting revered or end up with a fanbase that comes away with the wrong conclusions, especially if they're portrayed in a cool way.
But for one thing, American History X and Seinfeld and Always Sunny are all completely different types of shows/stories. People glorifying the violence of the first one are likely going to be pretty deep off the right wing end already. I don't think the filmmakers can really be held accountable for the interpretation a group like that will have of their final product, especially when the movie ends with the protagonist losing the person thats most important to them after having all their views proven wrong over the course of the story. Yeah people could still come away with the wrong interpretation there but I don't think that's something we can really blame on the creators at that point.
Seinfeld is a totally different beast because while, yeah, ultimately all being selfish and petty, none of the main characters in that show are white nationalists. And even here much of the comedy comes from the audience being in on the joke of just how unreasonable the characters often behave. They might root for them on one level but still be aware they're not amazing rolemodels. And any infractions they 'forgive' the characters for tend to be the sort of minor petty vendettas and fixations many Seinfeld episodes revolve around.
Finally, Always Sunny cranks that same concept up many many notches to the point where the characters are pretty much all outright sociopaths. They're not cool badass tough guys that make any of their behaviours or ideas look desirable or smart, they're all deranged and spineless and hapless and literally don't even have consistent convictions viewers (conservative or otherwise) could truly relate to. In the very first season you have the same set of characters act like homosexuality makes them uncomfortable one minute but also being super cool with it the second it starts making them money, or Mac and Dennis flipflopping between their stances on abortion depending on whats more likely to get them laid and most beneficial to their personal circumstances. They're all huge hypocrites and frequently change their tune on any given topic mid episode.
While it's true that they're never truly 'punished' for their awful behaviour by facing devastating longterm consequences that's kind of just due to the set up of the show, which needs to ensure they can continue getting involved in their insane shenanigans. (It also favours absurdity over strict realism, considering, for instance, the sheer amount of injuries and bizarre substance abuse and living conditions Charlie survives with only minimal consequences.)
They might not 'lose' by going to prison for life but we certainly never see them /winning/ either, or become successful or have their awful behaviour pay off in the long term. They're still the same prospectless and isolated narcissists who literally only have each other and the bar.
@@SeppelSquirrelI hope that didn't sound like I was lecturing you or smth btw, just trying to explain my opinion! I do think it's an important point for some films and shows, specifically with a lot of action movies, and particularly 'rogue cop' action movies and shows that normalise all kinds of police brutality and constantly emphasise the idea that efficient cops get the job done 'no matter what' (even if it means essentially torturing a suspect for instance) and that only losers follow the rules. I think tons of viewers ended up internalising really messed up ideas as a result of those films and shows glorifying that type of behaviour and universally painting those types of cops as the good guys, incredibly cool heroes who win the shootout and get the girl at the end.
I just feel like Always Sunny is a very different type of show like I explained in my other comment.
I'm sorry to hear you grew up around people like that btw, that really sucks!
idk how to feel about her apathy to bigotry. maybe on one hand it's like the conservative fantasy of minorities not being upset about "jokes", but maybe it's just a sex positive woman who knows herself
@@SeppelSquirrel Does bigotry always warrant severe punishment like losing your livelihood?
Carmen was extremely lucky to escape the black void that is the paddy’s pub gang, unlike the waitress, rickety cricket or the lawyer
Yeah tbh I think the most unaffected by the gang is Artemis, and tbh she was pretty weird to begin with, which is kinda funny to me
Honestly when I heard first about Carmen and this show in general I thought she would have a horrible fate like most of the characters in the show, but it's nice to see her living a happy life in the end
@@ChestersonJack Artemis feels like a special case where she’s certainly one of the smarter people in the gravity of their black hole, but she also knows how to balance the line on not getting too close…which is joining into their shenanigans rather than fighting against them.
Fun fact: the entire reason trans laws in the UK are garbage is because one noble divorced a trans woman and wanted to get the marriage nullified from the start.
isn't the uk religion anglican just so a king could get a divorce?
@@casinhamagica6383 I think that was one of Henry's reasons but it was also for and Reinforced by Elizabeth to control the people instead of the Pope controlling people, they would look to the Monarch
@@oswk9 thanks for clarifying
Who was the Noble? I'm curious now.
I want to see THAT period piece
What I found very refreshing about Carmen on SUNNY is that she is never the butt of any of the jokes involving her - but instead, the gang (usually Mac in particular) is.
Agreed
The very first joke of IASIP tells you everything you need to know about the gang and the show's humour:
Dee walks in and says, "Guys, my new boyfriend is coming in, be cool, okay?" Then a black man walks through the door, and Mac, without hesitation, jumps up and says, "Woah, woah, we don't want any trouble!" He puts his arm around Dee during a painfully long awkward pause.
The joke isn't black people, the joke is that Mac is an insecure racist.
this is the important bit. sure they use racism in the show but the obvious point is theyre not great people, not that those other people are bad.
@kvltslime2261 yeah, that's what always irks me about them banning all the episodes that involve the gang's racist characatures when the entire point in every instance they dress up as them is the painful display of their racism rather than actually promoting any harmful stereotypes.
Edit: no clue where "each each services" came from, just came back a month later and edited it out.
@@kvltslime2261 and thats why it confuses me as to why conservatives love this show and claim its not woke because its edgy, even though the audience is supposed to think the gang is awful, conservatives don't
@@kvltslime2261 yes! its not punching down at black people, its punching up at racists. the bigots are the joke in sunny, the minorities they run into a regular or good people that have an unfortunate run in with the gang.
@@josgretf2800I think that’s because there’s a good majority of conservatives that see themselves in the gang, and don’t grasp the fact that they’re not idolizable people.
One detail i really love is that after the bathroom episode, the signs they land on stay there for the rest of the show. And they're just there and it's never mentioned, showing that the decision seemed to work
Thanks for making this video! I'm a cis guy from a rural town who growing up had never interacted with trans people, and looking back I really think that discovering the show in 2010 when I first moved away from home really did help me to understand the challenges trans people face and how trans people SHOULD be treated in society. It helped me recognize some of my own biases and misgivings about the trans community. I recently started a rewatch of the show and your video has really given me some new perspective on Carmin as a character and how the show discusses trans issues, so thanks again!
what a nice comment to scroll by and read :)
I always really enjoyed Carmen as a character in It’s Always Sunny, not only because she had autonomy and agency and stood up for herself against Mac and the gang, but also because she had an actual storyline that progressed over a natural seeming timeline and is one of the rare characters in the show that ended up with a positive outcome. Great video!
I love this video and always sunny. I wanted to add that there's a bit in "mac is a serial killer" where Mac is actually researching into SRS. It's kind of wholesome for a character like him to go out of his way to look into something like that.
I also wanted to add that the way they handle Charlie's gender makes him kind of non-binary and he's iconic for that
i don’t like thinking about gender fluids
@@bleh55 it’s a line from Charlie
@@bleh55 it’s okay haha
Truly the best character redemption arc was Charlie. He went from a crazy drunk to one of the world's top researchers on Godzilla. Absolutely inspirational
i watched the "mac hates gay marriage" episode yesterday, and it was great. carmen is just a normal gal whos sick of the gangs shit, and she just so happens to be trans. also- the gang (at least in that episode) all uses her pronouns!! i mean yeah they use the t-slur, so i probably shouldnt praise them... but still. this show is so good istg
Pronoun-respecting transphobes is the funniest way to have a transphobe character I think
@@gaspardp7314 Can’t insult who you are without respecting who you are
@@gaspardp7314 That's the thing about the gang, they're not necessarily "hateful", they're just the most selfish living organisms that this godless void ever spawned.
@@gaspardp7314 The gang's respect of Carmen gives off the same vibes as "Hey what pronouns should I use for you?" "She/her" "Good cos I'm talking shit about you"
@@gaspardp7314 i love how dee and dennis also compliment her appearance. its such a weird way to take a character that everyone calls the t-slur, but its great. like yeah they're point out that carmen is trans in the worst way possible, but they both think she's a woman still who looks attractive
I kind of look at the gang referring to Carmen in such a derogatory way as them hardly ever referring to people by their real names. If you break down the fact that they call Matthew 'Rickety Cricket' it's actually a horrible thing to call him. They still call Ingrid Nelson 'Fatty Magoo'. This is of course when they even remember the person at all.
They also refer to the lawyer character as "the lawyer" or "the jew lawyer" so much that I don't even think the show ever gave us his actual name 😂
The Waitress is the best example of this lmao. All these years in and we still don’t know her name for certain
I really appreciate you tackling this show in this way. Unfortunately a lot of people have been turned away because of the unsavory part of the fanbase much like has happened with Rick and Morty.
Exactly this!! Its the concept they discussed of idolizing the characters- the ppl that think of the IASIP characters as their "friends" or people to look up to are on the same level of cringe as ppl who think Rick is totally a good guy & the best character ever
@@jenkinsjrjenkinsyes!! like the point is to laugh at the fact that the characters are assholes.
@@loadishstone while I do love the characters, I would NEVER be their friends, want them in my life, or want to emulate them in any way. I think that's the difference. They are hilarious, but in a grotesque way. They have charming, endearing and even human moments, but they are always, in essence, circus freaks. It's a subversion of that idea actually. As in " the true circus freaks were the jerks after all ".
And if you think about it, the "traditional freaks" (as in "people would consider them freaks 100 years ago", please don't misconstrue my words here 🙃) are usually the most redeemable characters, or the ones we ought to feel most empathy for, or just the most normal. Like Cricket and Carmen.
@@loadishstone speak for yourself.
@@loadishstone It's not dishonest, if the show was irredeemably misanthropic and mean spirited I wouldn't watch it. It's a very funny show and the characters are very funny. Obviously there are things I like about the characters. That doesn't mean that the things I like are GOOD or things you should aspire to. That's the discussion here.
The only downside of Carmen being played by a cis woman, and talking about only surgery and not hormones, is that it didn't crack my egg at the time. But yeah, better than everything else at the time, since himym certainly did increase my eggshell's thickness.
congrats on the gender!
I understand but realistically i just dont see any show of the time period being that real with it. It sadly was just flat out off the table for any show that was remotely mainstream.
Talking about thickening eggsshells takes the metaphore to a delightful extra level. *gently putting trans women in vinegar*
@@morgantrias3103oh to be a bouncy egg with a dissolved shell
My theory is that Carmen’s husband is actually a trans man and that’s why he can’t have kids
Aww that would be kinda cute
He says he could "never" have kids. If he was trans then he could of had kids at some point. Its probably a medical condition. He still could be trans but its not likely imo
@@hamchurger4566 not necessarily
Not all afab people are fertile
@@hamchurger4566 well, he can never have kids if hes had bottom surgery
@@hamchurger4566 after some years taking testosterone the ovaries stop producing eggs therefore becoming infertile
“Mack is a serial killer” was the first full episode of its always sunny I’ve seen.
My housemates just put on a random episode one night, and I thought it was so funny. After my housemates came to apologize to me, but I interpreted the episode the same way you describe.
"dude is that a hate crime?"
"Shit, yeah dude! That's a hate crime!"
Just gold
I always loved Carmen. I think she was the first portrayal of a transwoman that didnt make me feel uncomfortable and ashamed. When i was younger and in the closet i remember most representations of transwomen i saw were like cis dudes in drag with stubble or hairy legs. Or they looked super masculine but in a dress and it was done for laughs. Or they were kinda creepy and wayyy too flirty with dudes that were obviously not interested. Or they were dead bodies, victims of murder or drug addiction because they were like cheap sexworkers. Or they were the murderer themselves. And it just made my feelings of wanting to be a woman feel even more like... scary. I didnt want to be like that. I was scared people would think im a creep. that id never fit in or be accepted as a woman. That no one would ever love me or want me or respect me.
But Carmen was like... Thats a transwoman id be proud to be like. People like her. Shes treated like a normal woman but she also can connect with men easily because of her past. Shes strong and confident and beautiful and charming. And shes not afraid of being herself. She stands up for herself.
Maybe its just me being born in '95. But "the T word" wasnt something i heard a whole lot growing up. And i think i heard it most often in this show when referring to Carmen. And it made me kind of like the word. Because i like her. And it never felt like they were saying it with malice. After i came out i called myself "the T slur". I think it sounds cute. And it feels kind of empowering to own it. Im a proud T-slur. (Im not actually saying it here cuz im not sure if youtube will make my comment invisible if i say it) i know other people have their own relationships to that word, and im respectful of that. But personally i would like to see the trans community take that word back and make it ours.
Not necessarily take back but... i agree that it sounds kinda cute, and especially if you never had negative experiences connected with the word it's kinda easy to like?
first: congratulations on the gender, missy! im also a millennial and i remember what a shitshow mainstream shows were, so im really glad you found a role model that spoke to you :) also, you are in fact allowed to reclaim a slur for yourself. other trans women have irl i know! i mean i call myself a dyke all the time, bc i think it sounds cool. its about finding ur audience and how u use it.
ps i love your username
@@gwennorthcutt421 thank you ❤️
that does sound kinda cool 😎
I appreciate that 🍎 😉
Omg!
I'm a '95 born trans woman too :3
@@SA.1196 wouldnt it be cute if we link arms and eat an estradiol while looking into eachothers eyes? UwU
I was so impressed with the bathroom episode when it first came out for what a natural fit the gang are to illustrate what a ridiculous debate it is to begin with while also landing on the right takeaway that “it’s literally a room people shit in, who cares?” and it’s honestly hilarious how it reflects on anyone who still crusades against gender neutral bathrooms that these awful people are able to come to that conclusion and they somehow can’t.
they also keep continuity with it in later seasons. if you look in the background shots the signs are still up lol
Fun fact! The cast always has a float for Philly Pride! While the characters may not be allies, the cast 100% are.
i’m a trans person and it’s one of my favorite shows. like seeing all the trans jokes well executed is a nice change from other medias attempts at the subject
"a straight man who poops transgender" is such a great line
As a trans woman and a huge IASIP fan, yes! Exactly!
I similar situation to this is in the IT crowd, where one of the characters dates a trans woman, and is disgusted when he finds out. The character is shown to be a horrible person, he sexually harrasses one of the main cast, he repeatedly says awful things, and so it's a part of that when he is transphobic towards this woman. She gets the chance to defend herself, if I remember rightly she full on fights him, and honestly as a closeted trans person watching that show it made me feel very happy.
And then the writer went on to be a well known transphobe
Yeah that episode is weird bc even thought it's obviously coming from the angle of a transphobe, the woman is absolutely, 100% in the right.
She discloses the fact that she's trans to Douglas almost immediately on the first date (who only keeps dating her bc he mishears her), she and Douglas have a wonderful time together, and the reason they break up is strictly because Douglas is transphobic. The end of the episode is him in bed crying that she's gone and exclaiming that "it's just not the same!" bc he can't enjoy what they used to do together anymore.
I never saw it from that angle until now. I’m glad to hear that another trans person could get some joy out of that episode and throw it back in Graham Linehan’s face lmao
Yeah, I always liked that episode personally. The character who is transphobic is a crappy guy in general. and the relationship is good, it's only the shitty attitude of the shitty character that makes a problem. Shame linehan is a piece of shit but the episode is fine imo.
I really believe that receiving some complaints about this episode is what caused Linehan to become the Head Boy of terfs. Probably Rowling too, white neoliberals love to turn on minorities that don't treat them like saviours.
I think its really funny that as soon as mac has a problem with Carmen the rest of the gang is super supportive of her and her husband. It really says something about the main characters and how they sort of exist to be in opposition to each other.
I got really obsessed with this show back in the day, right after lockdown, and I remember thinking at the time "well, this isn't the nicest way to refer to Carmen, but they actually.. didn't make her the punchline?" and it was a curiously confusing thing I wasn't sure how to put into words until now, so great video!
"It's okay, she's actually trans, so it's fine that I hit her."
"... Isn't that a hate crime...?"
"Shit yeah, it's a hate crime!"
Man, Always Sunny really is just the best, even without how based this is that's just such a funny scene. You're expecting the whole sitcom thing where people are misunderstanding the situation or where they don't believe Mac or something, but it's such a good subversion to have them actually call it out for exactly what it is in such a blunt way. Watching this and the How I Met Your Mother video back to back REALLY shines a light on just how much better the jokes are in this series.
Nothing against How I Met Your Mother in general, but I'm just saying, you know? Subversion is a pretty good staple of comedy. And every joke from Mother just didn't really subvert anything? It's more like just a lot of sudden surprise disconnected "Isn't this a funny thing this guy just said" moments. Which is fine, but not exactly that well-made as a bit, I think.
Top notch essay! I think you did a really good job putting into words why this works so well as representation, despite the main characters doing/saying things that would promote transphobia in another show. I always really liked Carmen's introductory episode, I felt like the writers were also trying to imply that if Mac wasn't bigoted he could have been really happy. He obviously liked her a lot and enjoyed spending time with her, the show made it clear that the only thing stopping Mac from actually having a good relationship with a great woman who really liked him was his own transphobia.
yeah!! it feels like the episode of the IT Crowd where Douglas dates a trans girl by accident cause he mishears her when she is open about it on their first date. he's really happy with her, and what gets in the way of it is his transphobia (he's also shown to be a womaniser, sexually harasses the IT gang throughout the show, and is generally a shitty person lol)
not me crying at the seconds long excerpt of Charlie's breakdown
shot out to my fellow "daddy issues" girlies!!
That scene and Macs coming out dance just rip out my heart and make me sob.
I love how Carmen was portrayed as one of the few completely normal, compassionate human beings on the show.
"Yo is that a hatecrime?" Is honestly one of the funniest lines in the show to me.
The only problem I see with this is, given the amount of people who defend Bojack Horseman, or Walter White, or Rick Sanchez, or Eren Yeager, or any other protagonist that is the bad guy, I'm sure there's a whole group of "the gang did nothing wrong" people who don't get the point...
Well the thing about It's Always Sunny is that they're shown, countless times, to be doing absolutely blatantly horrible shit lmao.
@@flytrapYTP I know, but so are the characters I listed and all of them have apologists who missed the point of the show. The Tyler Durden effect
@@terpsidance. IASIP avoids some of that blowback by making sure the gang never looks cool. The reason shitty characters often get apologists is because people will focus on the aesthetics and think being a jerk is clever and exciting. Whereas the Gang are broke, incompetent, and embarrassing at best. The show really hits you over the head with it.
@@caecandy that's a good point. Pretty much all the characters I mentioned have a lot of "badass" moments
I think people do still find them relatable and defend them because they see them as underdogs.
It's Always Sunny is one of those incredible examples of how you can still tell jokes and not be canceled like every hack comedian says now(Dave Chappelle... lol) Bill Burr is another perfect example. There are many awkward moments on his podcast when a conservative writes in and has realized they've been duped into believing he is racist by his Boston accent. The humor is saying or doing the worst thing possible, or being the worst person possible, in order to mock it. It's a lot like what happened with Machiavelli. His writings were all critiques/jokes hidden as praise so he wasn't decapitated.
I'm glad the algo picked this up
Same is true of Anthony Jeselnik and more recent Frankie Boyle, who I always use in combo with IASIP to take down that cancel culture bullshit from hack comedians.
Old, rich, male. Transphobic voices have too many echoes from those tunnels.
@@falconeshield I'd actually say that women are much more harsh on trans women in particular. However you will see a lot examples of cis men doing that because we run the world lol. Luckily the newer generation is much more progressive.
I haven’t personally watched it’s always sunny, it’s not for me, but I’ve come across enough of it on the internet over the years to recognise the same thing you do, which is that having the main characters be consciously, purposefully, intentionally terrible people means that even if they do offensive things or have offensive attitudes, which they do, the show never condones them or acts like they are in the right, and that means they can get away with so much, from what I have seen I think there are other reasons why they have some relatively good representation as well, but that concept really does a lot of the heavy lifting
They have good representation because it's a progressive show well written by progressive people
@@loiracitr yeah that’s what I was aiming for, the characters being the way they are is one part of it, the rest is on them actually being intentional in how they portray minorities because they care about getting it right
@@threeleggedcat indeed! They decided to make Mac's character come out as gay because the actor's mum is gay and he wanted to have a gay protagonist 😁
Id be interested in your take on the trans character from "Alice in borderlands" who while played by a cis woman, is also played by that cis woman pre transition
i actually have an 'alice in borderlands' script from like a year ago, where i talk about the trans character and the shows take on fascism
Borderlands DLCs are getting weirder.
I randomly asked my trans sister what she was doing because i was bored she sent me this
welcome to the fold, young'un!
Sunny feels like a modern version of Seinfeld that doesn't glorify sociopathy
The actors actually seem like good people. They have a great podcast!
I mean the guy who plays Dennis was openly antivax before 2020 and went totally silent on that without ever saying he might have been wrong sooooo
But I agree on the others tho they're great
@@gaspardp7314 oh shit really? i hadn't heard that :/
@@gaspardp7314 Maybe he caught covid and thankfully survived
@@praticle Yeah, it was a bit of a meme before covid. Being anti vax is something Dennis would totally be (and was), so the idea that his actor was showing glimpses of Dennis's behavior was funny to see. I think the way the IASIP team had to look at and naviagte the show during covid caused Glenn to look into himself and reavaluate his beliefs. Hopefully he changed, and it seems like he did.
@@gaspardp7314You can still like people you disagree with.
this is a very good video essay, i always knew carmen was a good representation of trans women in media, especially adult media of the early 2000’s
as a trans woman myself and a fan of always sunny, those writers have my respect for being based as hell irl while writing the most awful characters in existence
I feel like the thing where the audience should always like the main characters in sitcoms is a very US thing, British sitcoms are traditionally full of objectively awful people who you're not supposed to like. It's why they never managed to make a US version of Red Dwarf (and just made several awful pilots) and why it was a struggle to get the US Office off the ground
yeah, british comedy and david brent-style humour is what allowed me to easily get into sunny and not get overly shocked/offended at how unlikeable the characters were. i can imagine that for people who only grew up with US sitcoms, sunny might put them off a bit
This video reminded me that you’re a really good writer (all of your videos do, it’s just been a while since I’ve watched one). I hope you get the recognition you deserve for the work you put into these videos.
One thing I love is that Carmen gets a happy ending. One of the only characters who does.
Great stuff Lily! First time watching one of your vids after seeing you post about it on Twitter. Excited to see some of your other stuff!
“You haven’t thought of the smell, you bitch!” still gets me every time
i have been watching the show recently and i think the reason the gang refers to carmen as "the [t slur]" so consistently is because they don't know any secondary character's names, like the waitress - the love of charlie's life, the center of many episodes - doesn't even have a name because they care so little about her. if they had known how offensive the slur was at the time, they probably would have called carmen "trans girl" or something rather than her name
I do find it funny when Mac takes issue with the time Frank calls him the f slur like ok
I was just watching your HIMYM video and was thinking "someone should do a video on Always Sunny, I seem to remember that being good"...and lo and behold.
Well, I'm glad you proved my memory isn't faulty 😅. Excellent video Lily.
i feel like a lot of people don’t realize that rob mcelhenney’s mom came out as gay when he was really young and his two brothers are also gay. of course that doesn’t mean he’ll automatically get trans representation right but i think it certainly helps
Thank you for saying "and enby pals" as a demi-girl I really appreciate it.
ok so I haven't actually seen the show, so the "that's why I hate valentines day and THAT'S why I put ANTHRAX in the box" caught me SO fucking off guard lmfao, laughed so hard my brother came to check if I was okay 😂😭
I think the only inexcusable example that wasn't mentioned is the zoom in on her "bulge" in her initial introduction. After Mac says, "I'll give you a call," the camera does the zoom as a sort of "look what Mac is in for here" shot. At that point, no character has prompted the camera to do that so to me it really only comes off as a punch down straight from the writers/directors. I could be overthinking it but the shot is just completely in your face and I've never seen any comments on it. I love the show but its one of the few moments, if any, that left a bad taste in my mouth.
No, I agree. It definitely gave me a kind of, "ick, was that really necessary?" feeling. I think *maybe* they were trying to establish the point that Mac is both aware of and bothered by the "bulge" from the beginning bc he's worried about what his friends might think, but he still gets involved with Carmen. However in that scene Dennis and Dee tell Mac that Carmen is Trans, so that shot isn't necessary. Plus we end up understanding all of Mac's conflicting feelings about wanting to be with Carmen, but worrying about what his friends will think through what he says and how he acts, without needing to focus on a trans individual's genitalia. Not to mention they made the "bulge" super obvious/exaggerated, which leans much more towards a comical angle. The emphasis almost seemed like they were making the visible "bulge" (a trait that Carmen explicitly says she wants to change through SRS) and therefore Carmen's inability to "pass", as she clearly is attempting to, a joke. Which is the one point at which I felt like they were almost making her the butt of the joke.
The one other thing I wish the show had done differently was somehow address how Mac turning out to be gay relates to his relationship with Carmen. It seems pretty apparent that he was initially written to be straight, which made sense with his relationship with Carmen. But once they decide to have Mac be gay (and clearly not bi bc we see him show disinterest in women to the point of putting on a show to make the gang think he's seeing a woman) they needed to find some way to address the transphobic ideas around het men who date trans women. They could've dealt with this in a variety of ways. Mac showed interest in cis women earlier in the show, so his sexuality could've evolved over time. They could've also decided to have his character be bi, but leaning more strongly towards an interest in men. I just think that the whole storyline of a closeted gay guy dating a trans woman (who he was obviously legitimately into) ends up feeding into a lot of transphobic stereotypes, like trans women not being "real" women, het men dating trans women being an indication they're actually into men, etc. Since the storyline ended with Mac at a different place than initially intended I get that it entirely changed the situation, but once that happened I think they should've done something to resolve that change.
yeah that's a fuckup but they recovered VERY well and I still love how they handled her
That's a really keen observation! Yes! The camera is often a character of its own, especially in hand-held camera sitcoms like Always Sunny. Especially because the "camera/narrator" character is typically responsible for making the gang look bad. For example, when the title card drops, it's usually a riff on something that one of the characters just said, leading to comedic editing.
But when the camera zooms in like it did there, it's behaving on behalf of Mac, which is a bit jarring compared to how it's normally used. You could potentially view this as the show joking about how trans characters are unfortunately often portrayed in sitcoms as "traps", but I don't think that's the case. Another comment said that they recovered well from this, and I agree, but it does still leave a weird taste in my mouth. Especially when the fact that Carmen is trans gets shoved down our throats about 100 other times, that one zoom shot becomes super unnecessary.
that’s fair, the first episode with her has the most iffy stuff in it but it was 2007 or something and the bar was in hell
Thank you for finally explaining Sunny for what it is. It's honestly some of the best satire/"slice of life" media ever made
I actually never wanted to watch iasif before, for many years. I only sat down to watch it a couple years ago and i just immediately loved it, i think they really nailed how absolutely horrible most sitcom characters are, but instead of being praised for it the gang gets what they actually deserve and i appreciate it
One of the many reasons I love this show is how it eviscerates typical sitcom gag formulae. The Gang gets called out for their sexism and transphobia in a way that doesn't punch down on the trans character or reduce her to a joke.
Love this video, IASIP is one of my favorite shows ever! On Charlie's "trans women when on the toilet" thing, I've seen some fan interpretations that Charlie might be nonbinary, and that if he was in a more accepting environment and not stuck around the gang's shitiness, he might actually come to identify as such. I think this is a really interesting theory, and I would love to hear what other people have to say about it.
I've seen head canons that Charlie is a trans man because of his refusal to take his shirt off.
@@ShelfHelpWhat? He takes his shirt off many times , one example off the top of my head being in 'The Gang Solves the Gas Crisis' when they are at the bank trying to get a loan.
Can we all just take a moment to appreciate how "That's a great camel-toe!" is used as a genuine compliment?
Yet another reason I need to check out this show. Been meaning to for so long. Love these videos and really glad to see you got a sponsorship for this one!
Ur very fun to listen to when I'm crocheting!!!! As a person under the trans umbrella, u make me very happy!!! Please be safe, love your analysing skills, and please make more content!!! ♡♡♡
Always Sunny is the perfect example of "offensive comedy", because they don't punch down. They only punch up or even punch themselves (if that makes sense. like making fun of their own demographic of mostly white cis men). The decision to make the main characters absolutely terrible people is so genius because even if they're being unbelievably offensive and/or bigoted, it's always showing that they're in the wrong.
I love that even when the gang is somewhat right about something they get to that conclusion and beleive it for almost every wrong reason you could possibly think of for the issue they may be discussing
Which is great, because it shows even shitty people can arrive at the right conclusion, so it really is just explicit bigotry from most of the whiners
I had a really bad introduction to the series, the dance competition episode. It's one of the few episodes where the gang does, actually win, and it gave me the impression that the gang get to be awful with no concequences. It wasn't until much later when my partner had me watch some other episodes that I started to like it.
Not to long ago, I rewatched Ugly Betty for the first time in years. I was very worried about how badly it would've aged, in the time since I'd last watched I had family who'd come out as trans, and had transitioned myself. I had what I'd consider pretty similar feelings to the shows handling of things as I do to Carmen. Like, yeah, there are Issues, there's no point saying thhere aren't, but she's a well rounded character and once they're past the initial reveal, her being trans isn't really used as a dramatic twist. In fact, in one episode after she's in an accident and has forgotten everything up to a point prior to her transition (its a novela, amnesia has to happen) they play up an oh no, how do i explain to my sibling that they're a woman now.... only for her to be ecstatic and to just grin and grab her boobs and be so happy about it cause yeah, no drama there, she always wanted that.
Awesome video!
Lately, I’ve started watching more videos about topics like this and yours is probably one of the best I’ve seen that tackles this particular issue. So many times, I see videos that talk about how a show was insulting to the LGBT community so it’s nice to see someone talking about a good representation.
I love Carmen so much, it rlly shows how basic a lot of trans woman are. I dress like a gym bunny 80% of the time and my bf is hefty and black too
I also enjoy she came out on top, and had Allie’s that defended her In the streets even tho no one was in any danger
You wouldn't think a show about horrible people being horrible would do trans representation right, but Always Sunny is just pretty goddamned solid about this stuff.
Sorry, but isn't anyone going to talk abot the weird uncomfortable way that they portray Carmen in the first episode zooming on her croch and showing an erect penis, like... That was very uncomfortable to watch, the show is being transphobic in that moment, not only the bigoted characters, they are obsesing with the genitals of a transgender woman and showing them to try to shock the cisgender audience, also as a real trans woman, this is not realistic trans representation, just the amount of danger that a real transgender woman could suffer in a real situation if she was going around like that without any tucking and everybody could see that she is trans and the show ignores that and only wants the audience to clearly see her penis is creepy. Also wtf does she have to be hard all the time?
It just bothers me that everybody is ignoring that, ok the show did some good things but let's not ignore the mistakes.
It’s not supposed to look like she’s hard it’s supposed to look like she’s wearing extremely tight pants with a rather girthy hog
I don’t see the issue, personally. It’s focusing on what a character noticed about the character
The early appearances of Carmen still brush me the wrong way. The way the gang treats her is to be expected. But it's the way the camera focuses on her that feels childish and possibly transphobic.
Trans rights are human rights, great video!
This made me want to reconsider the show. I’ve always found it pretty overstimulating & essentially just horrible people yelling at eachother - but I’ve never really given it a chance as being intelligently written. Thank you for the analysis ! Always looking out for better trans representation in media … hard to find
it is horrible people screaming at each other, but it is also incredibly written. it’s the smartest dumb show ever
mac is a serial killer is one of the best trans episodes of any show and probably my favorite always sunny episode
its so good
I saw your HIMYM video and was very curious about IASIP! So I'm glad you made this video. I'm cis and want to be more aware of experiences of trans people and representation in media. Thanks Lily.
6:14 when Mac did that dance, it was one of the few times I cried. It was so beautifully done, and still his father rejects him. God DAMN that tore my heart. Even tho Mac is a terrible person, you still feel for them time to time.
Like even Charlie. From time to time I forget how s***y of a person he is until he rejects that girl. I wanted to go through the TV and punch him lol. But that's the idea. Just sometimes you forget lol 😆
So ready for this!!! Thank you Lily!!!
Literally every joke involving Carmen is about how stupid Macs bigotry and ignorance is. They depict her as a pretty, charismatic and fun girl who had a shitty boyfriend, broke up with him and moved on with her life
I know it's off topic a little bit, but I would like if shows represented Trans Men and transmasculine people sometimes, too.
Just, would be nice, I think.
I like how she is the only person that actually gains something positive from the gang, dee giving her a baby and her walking away happy with her baby and husband. Its adtually so wholesome, which doesnt happen very often, if not at all.
It's funny to me that the shows with a reputation for being horrible, disgusting shows like IASIP and South Park handle social issues better than most family friendly shows do.
South park, even though they're often hit or miss when they first introduce a character or issue, explore it over time with characters like Jimmy and Token since they're allowed to be more than just the cripple or the black guy.
Tolkien
Yesss such an important thing to mention. Sourh Park in particular gets very little credit for stuff like this because people take the bait most of the time and dont stay for the actual commentary.
hard disagree, south park’s “satire” is completely devoid of the same clear intent always sunny has, to the extent that any point they’re trying to make is muddied enough that it just comes off as plain bigotry, which regardless of whatever point they’re *trying* to make results in the audience coming away with the opposite message. like, the trans episode where the town has an epidemic of people getting surgeries to be dolphins or whatever is indistinguishable from the classic conservative joke of “oh i identify as an attack helicopter”. you would have to be extremely charitable to interpret that as anything else. south park is also just nowhere near as funny as iasip.
@@threegreenworms Yes, they've been off quite a lot but they are willing to change characters and their views when they realise they fucked up. Like with the ManBeaePig global warming metaphor.
I’d say Southpark is radically centrist. Their big brain moments are always within (or very closely adjacent to) wherever the acceptable discourse is at for the large majority of people born after 1970. It’s basically CNN with edgy humor.
Like, I remember their first episode after 9/11, watching Cartman hunt Bin Laden like a Bugs Bunny cartoon, and thinking to myself, “Oh, wait, this is just… straight-up war propaganda.”
_… that all said,_ yeah, I agree that they handle social issues better than most family friendly shows.
I've tried to describe before what exactly it is about IASIP's depictions of racism, transphobia, homophobia, and so on that doesn't feel the same as other sitcoms, and you've put it into words perfectly. This is a show about horrible people who live in a world full of normal people, and we're supposed to hate them.
I think about Family Guy's trans character, Quagmire's mother, who has a lot of jokes made at her expense any time she appears. But with Family Guy, even though the characters are all unabashedly awful, the transphobia seems genuine, like they expect the viewers to go "it's so funny cause it's true." If IASIP characters made the same exact jokes, with the intention to laugh AT these backwards-thinking bartenders, it'd feel very different. Family Guy runs off "relatable humor", and Peter often talks directly to the audience, so they're characters the audience is supposed to agree with. It's just short of a laugh track away from going "laugh at this." But I also feel like Family Guy's characters each have one major thing about them that never fails to make them the butt of a joke, and sometimes that thing is just being trans, and that does not feel the same.
Watching the first episode where Carmen was introduced I legit rolled my eyes initially when mac said “she’s a dude, she has a penis”, I figured “it’s from a different era, can’t expect much.”
When the two men observing Mac punching Carmen asked if that was a hate crime and chased after him I knew this show was going to be special ☺️
*When you're first talking about Carmen in her first appearance.*
Me: Wow! That's awsome rep for an episode of a show that I have to Assume came out late 2000s or early 2010s
15:23 Wait. WHAT!?!? Holy shit, my respect for their portrayal of her jumped WAY up when you mentioned the actual year the episode came out.
Holy fuck. I've seen a fair amount of always sunny, but I haven't seen the bit with the anthrax in the box. I nearly died laughing for 2 minutes straight when that clip played