Dont kid yourself. The writers dont even know about the wiki. In fact, the writers of the wiki are getting headaches from trying to fit in the new trek canon with the real canon and pass it off as making sense ...which of course it doesnt. XD
No I think it’s just another way to reinforce that their villain is unprecedented and therefore more dangerous and badass than what came before, it’s childish comic book writing
Burnham: I'm.....trying to use my telepathic powers to link up....but I'm having a hard time picking it up. Random Crewmember: You're not a Vulcan. Stop trying to convince everyone on the ship that you are one. Burnham: Yes I am. My adopted brother was Vulcan. I know everything about it. Here....Bridge contact Species 10-C. Hail them. Bridge:.......No Response. Burnham:.....They are there..... *Burnham starts crying*.......try again. Bridge:.......No Response.
Everything wrong with ST Disco: 279 videos Star Trek Disco breaking continuity: 352 videos Me: Wow these series are even more real shit than what i expected😂
"They're linked! Like the Borg?" "No... ...There was a sense of harmony, with one another... ...But I believe they may not have any awareness of individual existence." Everyone in this thread: "I'm going to ignore the second line"
Thank you! Literally every example given "contradicting" this part has some understanding of individuality and many even have it in some way in their culture, like the Founders.
When I heard T'Rina saying that "they're not just linked, they are unaware of the concept of individual", I realized that the NuTrek writers pretty much ripped off the Protomolecule Builders backstory from The Expanse book series for the 10-C. I suppose they thought that since the books 7-9 won't be adapted for a while, they could just steal ideas from them and no one would notice.
So they are like the Borg (species 10-C) before the Queen was introduced (Locutus was never suppose to be their 'leader', he was their voice). And we have already experienced before on NuTrek that the writers rip off other media. (Mass Effect, Terminator, Alien)
How can something understand being part of a collective without the concept of an individual. That's like understanding 10 slices in a pizza but not what an individual slice is lol
@@Retro6502 or saying that humans dont understand the concept of being linked because we are individual. typical leftist identity politics bs. you can't possibly understand something unless you are that thing.
@@Retro6502 It is often a recurring concept in sci-fi involve a species with a collective consciousness. As these species tend to 'think' that all other 'thinking beings' must also have a collective consciousness, they don't recognize species with individual minds until they finally encounter such a species. So by this logic species 10-C should know that intelligent species that do not have a collective consciousness exist. Hmm, would 10-C then also realize that their machines could also have been destroying worlds of such species?
The animals who didn't even realize higher dimensions existed? Oh yeah, definitely the same thing as a species that can bio-engineer complex lifeforms like the Founders do.
we actually do have collective minds on earth. The way it works here is that through political ads and youtube videos, millions of drones develop collective thinking, and in some cases, acting, nobody thinking for themselves, and not feeling responsible for anything.
And on that clip re: the Great Link...that's the best thing about writing something that's supposed to be beyond normal comprehension, isn't it? You can basically say _anything_ cryptic and vaguely metaphorical, and then you get to look all smart and deep and mystical!
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled You truly think that was the quote? Did you watch the clip? "They're linked! Like the Borg?" "No...there was a sense of harmony, with one another..."
@@NickWrightDataYT ...how exactly would you be "in harmony" with something you have no concept of even possibly being separate from? Is this one of those things I can only learn from Yoda?
In universe explanation, the Burn also caused a lot of history to be lost somehow. It's also how I cope with how it seems very little new discoveries or progress were made in the 800 years between the late 24th and 32nd centuries.
As many have commented in detail here, StarTrek is replete with examples of collective consciousness stories to the point it's trope. But you go right ahead NuTrek and keep shitting out what you think are precedented story lines.
Well in a prior season they mention the events of the Picard series and the Borg are in that, right? And were a pretty serious threat in previous series & films like First Contact.
Why are you reading their reactions as "we've never seen this before"? They're shocked that 10-C is telepathically linked, and the reason they go to the Borg is because they're obviously worried about that happening again. If we find another species of animal that lays eggs and produces milk (like the echidna and the platypus), we would react the exact same way. It wouldn't be "this is something I've never seen before", but "another one??"
the only reason to see the borg in disco/picard was to see alternate philippa assimilating the borg to conquer species 8472, eventually threatening to destroy the universe in the process, and ofc sf coming to the rescue. and even then the borg shouldn't be a surprise.
Lame leaders , it took them the whole series to work out 10c . In proper Star Trek they would have figured the anomaly in one episode. I bought series 4 of discovery, paint drying was more entertaining.
It was a bit slow paced and laboured. series 4 could have taken place over the course of 3 or 5 episodes and still been a lot more effective, I mean, entire episodes just felt like filler with bits put in to justify it.
Whoa! You bought it? I just recorded it off TV back when the 1st season was being broadcast (I have 2 DVD recorders). I could never bring myself to pay money for it.
That's because they were promoted to their positions to meet diversity quotas rather than qualifying based on their experience and competence -- which they clearly lack. Sad, really.
@@atomicninjaduck9200 I wish I did that it was terrible , they are trying to shill paramount+ in the UK , stupid trek including Picard , strange new worlds and discovery are reasons not to have paramount+ . The only thing I would like is mcgyver the new series as it had science in it I am sick of the whole diversity virus where they value who the characters are and rather than good stories and being true to the literature and canon Dr who is boring aswell
@@edmundprice5276 they could have made it into one episode as there was so much unnessary back stories The characters are boring I hate the cgi and special effects and I like those things
Being telepathically linked like the Founders or the dream people on Voyager is not the same as a literal hive mind that has no concept of individuality or individuals. Every example here shows the aliens at least UNDERSTAND the concept of individuality, and most of them have it to some degree in their culture, like the Founders (otherwise Odo could not have rebelled against them).
@@ALookIntoTheEulenspiegel see! That's what i meant no one has ever come with a system that is completely new to earthly life. No jellyfish. Something similar to us how easily we converse and express but still yet completely new! Scientists also usually search for oxygen on other planets. But what if the life over there is made of system that uses Sulphur instead of oxygen. Or the life doesn't use circulatory system but a different method of transportation. Which requires direct access to atmospheric CO2 that is broken down to get O2 in body. Which means oxygen less atmosphere also becomes possibility
@@uau_exitar No, plenty of people have come up with complete inhuman 'life', including Star Trek. It's just that near-human aliens tend to be useful for storytelling.
Because it's new information they hadn't considered? Collective consciousnesses are exceptional; amongst advanced life forms, there are only a few examples of truly indistinct consciousnesses. Just because a few exist doesn't mean that any given crew making first contact with a new species is going to assume that all its members are telepathically linked. This show is deeply flawed and does not have much consideration for past storylines, but this is a reach. Now if T'rina had said "we've never heard of an entire species being telepathically linked to the point of non-individual consciousness", then you'd have a point. But them learning that a recently-contacted species exhibits a rare trait isn't a failure of writing.
Humans have also developed our own version of a collective mind….it’s called the INTERNET. So it’s not far fetched to think other species who are more advanced by centuries or eons would too.
It really is like they want to rewrite history and have their characters discover everything for the very first time even when they contradict it themselves - they know of the borg and group consciousness yet they are still shocked here. But they can get away with it afterall STD is a Star Trek show for people who hate Star Trek and would never watch it otherwise so they won't know any better and it isn't like actual Trek fans are watching this crap.
Why not? Nu trek tried the spread the garbage myth that Burnham was the the first black female captain onscreen in Trek. It’s as if the world began a decade ago to these morons. I’m
This is a real problem with nuTrek. Everything is treated as so grand and shocking instead of something experienced people can explain and problem solve. It makes the crew look really out of their league.
Everyone knew about the Borg but Captain Picard, it seems. Same with the Romulans etc. All of this kind of bad writing and lore retconning was present in Enterprise, but none of it was quite this bad. The writers at least tried to come up with excuses for things. Still, prequels are a mistake. Especially in the hands of juvenile writers who don't care about the previous series.
Everyone in the federation knew about the borg after the battle at wolf 359, and the time that discovery currently takes place in is long after that, so by the time discovery is currently taking place the federation and almost everyone else in the galaxy at least vaguely knows of the borg
@@ivucica I guess that makes sense then, depending on how long they were there and what they had the opportunity to learn about. Don’t really want to watch this idiocy to find out for sure though.
@@rando6836 I don't think they went back. The purpose of them staying is "see, this is why nobody knows of legendary Discovery and why there's no silly spore drive by Kirk's or Picard's time: they went to the future and everyone had to forget about them under orders".
By the logic of your own video. Shouldn't Picard and Odo not need this explained to them since chronologically, in universe, Enterprise came before both TNG and DS9.
In universe explanation, the Burn also caused a lot of history to be lost somehow. It's also how I cope with how it seems very little new discoveries or progress were made in the 800 years between the late 24th and 32nd centuries.
Heck, in Voyager there was even a species with a collective subconsciousness. Beings who shared their dreams with another.
Like "Species 8472" the Andin or whatever they are calling themselves.
@@saalkz.a.9715 no, the ones who sleep all the time and invide passenger ship crew's dreams.
@@nevenasterikova3335 ohhhhh, yeah and then Chakotay found their cave and threatened to blow them up
@@paulpolpiboon9535 yeah
Wich season is this?
Because they didn't get to that section of Memory Alpha wiki
Dont kid yourself. The writers dont even know about the wiki. In fact, the writers of the wiki are getting headaches from trying to fit in the new trek canon with the real canon and pass it off as making sense ...which of course it doesnt. XD
😆😆😆
No I think it’s just another way to reinforce that their villain is unprecedented and therefore more dangerous and badass than what came before, it’s childish comic book writing
Further proof that the "writers" of this show haven't actually watched (nor care about) Star Trek.
Yes, or watched any other sci-fi series or film for the last 7 decades.
They just paid wokesters paid to create propaganda in modern pop culture ..
Of course not, they're too busy being """"""activists"""""".
Clearly the only Trek they have watched is "Picard".
Amazing series, you old farts just have bad taste. Wah wah wah..
Burnham: I'm.....trying to use my telepathic powers to link up....but I'm having a hard time picking it up.
Random Crewmember: You're not a Vulcan. Stop trying to convince everyone on the ship that you are one.
Burnham: Yes I am. My adopted brother was Vulcan. I know everything about it. Here....Bridge contact Species 10-C. Hail them.
Bridge:.......No Response.
Burnham:.....They are there..... *Burnham starts crying*.......try again.
Bridge:.......No Response.
yeah dont be silly, only androids can learn telepathy.... :P
*Star Trash Disaster:* Dumb action schlock about a Mary Sue wannabe Vulcan having tantrums.
Everything wrong with ST Disco: 279 videos
Star Trek Disco breaking continuity: 352 videos
Me: Wow these series are even more real shit than what i expected😂
I think the abbreviation you're looking for is STD
Priceless.
"They're linked! Like the Borg?" "No...
...There was a sense of harmony, with one another...
...But I believe they may not have any awareness of individual existence."
Everyone in this thread: "I'm going to ignore the second line"
Thank you! Literally every example given "contradicting" this part has some understanding of individuality and many even have it in some way in their culture, like the Founders.
"Why are you so surprised?"
"Because there was no star Trek before us!"
keep doing what you do man, its much appreciated!
directors needto hire major grin.
When I heard T'Rina saying that "they're not just linked, they are unaware of the concept of individual", I realized that the NuTrek writers pretty much ripped off the Protomolecule Builders backstory from The Expanse book series for the 10-C. I suppose they thought that since the books 7-9 won't be adapted for a while, they could just steal ideas from them and no one would notice.
So they are like the Borg (species 10-C) before the Queen was introduced (Locutus was never suppose to be their 'leader', he was their voice).
And we have already experienced before on NuTrek that the writers rip off other media. (Mass Effect, Terminator, Alien)
How can something understand being part of a collective without the concept of an individual. That's like understanding 10 slices in a pizza but not what an individual slice is lol
@@Retro6502 or saying that humans dont understand the concept of being linked because we are individual. typical leftist identity politics bs. you can't possibly understand something unless you are that thing.
@@Retro6502 It is often a recurring concept in sci-fi involve a species with a collective consciousness.
As these species tend to 'think' that all other 'thinking beings' must also have a collective consciousness, they don't recognize species with individual minds until they finally encounter such a species.
So by this logic species 10-C should know that intelligent species that do not have a collective consciousness exist.
Hmm, would 10-C then also realize that their machines could also have been destroying worlds of such species?
There was also the two dimensional species whose collective was so powerful it blocked out Trois telepathy
The animals who didn't even realize higher dimensions existed? Oh yeah, definitely the same thing as a species that can bio-engineer complex lifeforms like the Founders do.
we actually do have collective minds on earth.
The way it works here is that through political ads and youtube videos, millions of drones develop collective thinking, and in some cases, acting, nobody thinking for themselves, and not feeling responsible for anything.
0:14 "They may not have any awareness of 'individual existence.'"
So...like the Borg. (TNG, Pre-First Contact Borg, anyway.)
And on that clip re: the Great Link...that's the best thing about writing something that's supposed to be beyond normal comprehension, isn't it? You can basically say _anything_ cryptic and vaguely metaphorical, and then you get to look all smart and deep and mystical!
"Like the Borg"
"No, they are all connected, with no individuality"
"Yeah, LIKE THE BORG?..."
They're linked! Like the Borg?" "No...there was a sense of harmony, with one another..."
Please actually watch the clip.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled You truly think that was the quote? Did you watch the clip?
"They're linked! Like the Borg?" "No...there was a sense of harmony, with one another..."
@@NickWrightDataYT ...how exactly would you be "in harmony" with something you have no concept of even possibly being separate from?
Is this one of those things I can only learn from Yoda?
In universe explanation, the Burn also caused a lot of history to be lost somehow. It's also how I cope with how it seems very little new discoveries or progress were made in the 800 years between the late 24th and 32nd centuries.
As many have commented in detail here, StarTrek is replete with examples of collective consciousness stories to the point it's trope.
But you go right ahead NuTrek and keep shitting out what you think are precedented story lines.
You mean UNprecedented story lines, right? Edit.
Because they knew already of 10-CC.
0:09 this implies either the Borg are still around or that the Borg were so infamous that they are stilled talked about
Thought the same thing then remembered Jurati's Co-operative
Well in a prior season they mention the events of the Picard series and the Borg are in that, right? And were a pretty serious threat in previous series & films like First Contact.
The writers probably also never watched Galaxy Quest... *Did you guys ever watch the show?* Guy from Galaxy Quest
Why are you reading their reactions as "we've never seen this before"? They're shocked that 10-C is telepathically linked, and the reason they go to the Borg is because they're obviously worried about that happening again.
If we find another species of animal that lays eggs and produces milk (like the echidna and the platypus), we would react the exact same way. It wouldn't be "this is something I've never seen before", but "another one??"
Only one of those scenes happened before the Discovery scene.
No they all did. Season 3 and 4 of Discovery take place in 31st century.
the only reason to see the borg in disco/picard was to see alternate philippa assimilating the borg to conquer species 8472, eventually threatening to destroy the universe in the process, and ofc sf coming to the rescue. and even then the borg shouldn't be a surprise.
Lame leaders , it took them the whole series to work out 10c . In proper Star Trek they would have figured the anomaly in one episode. I bought series 4 of discovery, paint drying was more entertaining.
It was a bit slow paced and laboured.
series 4 could have taken place over the course of 3 or 5 episodes and still been a lot more effective, I mean, entire episodes just felt like filler with bits put in to justify it.
Whoa! You bought it? I just recorded it off TV back when the 1st season was being broadcast (I have 2 DVD recorders). I could never bring myself to pay money for it.
That's because they were promoted to their positions to meet diversity quotas rather than qualifying based on their experience and competence -- which they clearly lack. Sad, really.
@@atomicninjaduck9200 I wish I did that it was terrible , they are trying to shill paramount+ in the UK , stupid trek including Picard , strange new worlds and discovery are reasons not to have paramount+ .
The only thing I would like is mcgyver the new series as it had science in it
I am sick of the whole diversity virus where they value who the characters are and rather than good stories and being true to the literature and canon
Dr who is boring aswell
@@edmundprice5276 they could have made it into one episode as there was so much unnessary back stories
The characters are boring
I hate the cgi and special effects and I like those things
"They're linked? Like the Borg?" (the hacked dialog)
"No; unlike the Borg, 10-C have no individuality." (paraphrased the hacked dialog)
urgh, made me cringe hearing that "easter egg".
Being telepathically linked like the Founders or the dream people on Voyager is not the same as a literal hive mind that has no concept of individuality or individuals. Every example here shows the aliens at least UNDERSTAND the concept of individuality, and most of them have it to some degree in their culture, like the Founders (otherwise Odo could not have rebelled against them).
They made the vulcan weak so that everyone can feel bad when burnham cried.
Wait this still exists ?!?!?
Why do aliens always have same morphology as humans but just their face get some weird. But still have same basic structure overall?
Common ancestors! There was episode on TNG about this!
@@mikcnmvedmsfonoteka oof they spread evolution throughout the universe !!
Also: effects are expensive and it's difficult to convey emotions as a jellyfish
@@ALookIntoTheEulenspiegel see! That's what i meant no one has ever come with a system that is completely new to earthly life. No jellyfish. Something similar to us how easily we converse and express but still yet completely new! Scientists also usually search for oxygen on other planets. But what if the life over there is made of system that uses Sulphur instead of oxygen. Or the life doesn't use circulatory system but a different method of transportation. Which requires direct access to atmospheric CO2 that is broken down to get O2 in body. Which means oxygen less atmosphere also becomes possibility
@@uau_exitar
No, plenty of people have come up with complete inhuman 'life', including Star Trek. It's just that near-human aliens tend to be useful for storytelling.
Because it's new information they hadn't considered? Collective consciousnesses are exceptional; amongst advanced life forms, there are only a few examples of truly indistinct consciousnesses. Just because a few exist doesn't mean that any given crew making first contact with a new species is going to assume that all its members are telepathically linked.
This show is deeply flawed and does not have much consideration for past storylines, but this is a reach. Now if T'rina had said "we've never heard of an entire species being telepathically linked to the point of non-individual consciousness", then you'd have a point. But them learning that a recently-contacted species exhibits a rare trait isn't a failure of writing.
Um it just seems like they were stating the facts as their curiosity grew about the species. This was a reach.
Humans have also developed our own version of a collective mind….it’s called the INTERNET.
So it’s not far fetched to think other species who are more advanced by centuries or eons would too.
It really is like they want to rewrite history and have their characters discover everything for the very first time even when they contradict it themselves - they know of the borg and group consciousness yet they are still shocked here. But they can get away with it afterall STD is a Star Trek show for people who hate Star Trek and would never watch it otherwise so they won't know any better and it isn't like actual Trek fans are watching this crap.
Why not? Nu trek tried the spread the garbage myth that Burnham was the the first black female captain onscreen in Trek. It’s as if the world began a decade ago to these morons. I’m
This is a real problem with nuTrek. Everything is treated as so grand and shocking instead of something experienced people can explain and problem solve. It makes the crew look really out of their league.
"This is the Federation Starship SJW."
The Writers ...
Yay we watched every episode of Deep Babylon 59
Nothing in Discovery contradicts the other shows.
Now, now, Major Grin, its not the Star Trek writers fault that they are talentless hacks XD
How dothey know about the borg? I hate startrek now
Everyone knew about the Borg but Captain Picard, it seems. Same with the Romulans etc. All of this kind of bad writing and lore retconning was present in Enterprise, but none of it was quite this bad. The writers at least tried to come up with excuses for things. Still, prequels are a mistake. Especially in the hands of juvenile writers who don't care about the previous series.
They’re in The Future still, aren’t they? I’m not watching S4 and am avoiding finding out too much, but I sort of assumed they are.
Everyone in the federation knew about the borg after the battle at wolf 359, and the time that discovery currently takes place in is long after that, so by the time discovery is currently taking place the federation and almost everyone else in the galaxy at least vaguely knows of the borg
@@ivucica I guess that makes sense then, depending on how long they were there and what they had the opportunity to learn about. Don’t really want to watch this idiocy to find out for sure though.
@@rando6836 I don't think they went back. The purpose of them staying is "see, this is why nobody knows of legendary Discovery and why there's no silly spore drive by Kirk's or Picard's time: they went to the future and everyone had to forget about them under orders".
Can Nu Trek stop shaking the smegging Camera??
The Orville>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SNW>Picard>>>Discovery
Illogical! Illogical!
Oh, we kinda forgot about that...
Because New Trek writters don't know anything about Star Trek🤷🏽♂️
By the logic of your own video. Shouldn't Picard and Odo not need this explained to them since chronologically, in universe, Enterprise came before both TNG and DS9.
That's not the point; it took the whole series to figure out the 10C phenomenon whereas they figured things out quickly in other ST series.
@@itzakehrenberg3449 no they didn't? This takes place in a single scene?
Archer was notorious for not keeping records lol
@@NitpickingNerd T'pol isn't. Lol it's like her entire job as science officer.
These writers are pretty lazy huh?
Sad thing about Discovery is: they had little shining moments of originality but they aren't able to make it last.
Because the writers suck and are incredibly lazy.
In universe explanation, the Burn also caused a lot of history to be lost somehow. It's also how I cope with how it seems very little new discoveries or progress were made in the 800 years between the late 24th and 32nd centuries.