This is the greatest channel on TH-cam that has ever existed! I'm serious! Even whenever I'm down, turning on one of Dave's videos perks me up immediately. Hence they're not only informative, but also serve as good psychotherapies for people in need of that ;) Thanx a lot Dave. May you live a very long and happy life
It's independent media so Dave does not need to 's*ck up' to anyone! It's good to see the myths, the horrors and the cult of personality that exist in the classical music business challenged.
Even in the days when conductors were expected to rise slowly and patiently through a series of apprenticeships, there were those who did so more rapidly and at at a very young age. Even though we now think of them as old masters. Toscanini, for example, conducted his first performance at 19 and was in charge of LaScala at 32-with a ton of prestigious posts in between. Von Karajan was 21 when he debuted at Salzburg. Mengelberg was chief conductor at the Concertgebouw at 24. Kubelik was heading the Brno Opera and the Czech Phil at 25-same age as Rattle in Birmingham. Salonen got the Swedish Radio gig at 26, and Mahler the Royal Hungarian Opera job at 27. Szell was also just 27 when he became principal conductor at the Berlin Staatsoper. Philly was Stokowski's second orchestra and he was still only 30 when he got there. As was Haitink when he followed in Mengelberg's footsteps in Amsterdam.
You can't compare what was customary then with today's situation. Standards were different, musical culture was different, expectations were totally different.
Exactly. There are these examples in each generation of one or two who emerge extremely early. Composers who were not as precocious as Mozart at 6 have made tremendous contributions, and so will conductors who were overlooked at this point in favor of Mäkelä. There are typically one or two like Mäkelä, sometimes none. It takes nothing away from the rest who mature later.
@@BCTMarcus THANK YOU for pointing out to dave what should be patently obvious to him... but sad to say, ISN'T! All of that garbage he went on and on about in a tiresome reading I saw him do of a critical review of the CSO from 60 plus years ago was over the top! Via his own line above of, "You can't compare...", that should plainly be obvious to all of us and most of all to dave. Furthermore, this "Ken-Doll" business is childish name-calling lest we be brought to consider how turnabout could result in the suggestion of some unkind names for mr hurwitz!
Makala has none of Toscanini's skills and will never have. He just does not have the musical, managerial and whatever skill you would associated with a conductor that is paid millions. Top music schools are full of better conductors and cellists despite him trying to find every opportunity to play the cello. When the orchestras pay you millions a year and you are earning 30/40/50 or more then your first chairs, you'd better get it right.
UPDATE: See promised concert impressions as reply below. I'm 74 and have been a Chicago Symphony subscriber since college in 1968 (before Solti). I was disappointed in the selection (but expecting it) for most all of the reasons you cited. However, I think there is something else going on here, not yet mentioned. I believe there is a case for optimism based on the reasoning that the orchestra musicians leaned heavily in his direction so that they themselves could supply and apply the depth of their own vastly greater knowledge, experience and authority to shape things going forward. If the kid can learn a lot as time goes on, so much the better, but if not, they are more than happy to let him shake the stick and sell the tickets. I heard him here doing the Stravinsky Firebird here a couple years ago and gave him props at the time, but then there wasn't much to really discern from that work. This Friday, I'll be hearing them do the Shostakovich Symphony No. 10, a piece that I'm particularly discriminatory about in its interpretation. Perhaps I'll drop by here afterwards and share impressions. Yes, I know Dave, you have to hear it for yourself.
Just my personal inklings at present, but I'm sure we'll learn a lot more about their collective motivations before too much longer. They were still trying to reel in Muti in 2007 when the Dudamel/LAPhil announcement came down and really shook things up. Muti was hands down the right selection at that next moment in time. But now, they've seen what Dudamel wound up doing for Los Angeles and they have to want in on some of that same action. I truly believe they feel that what they don't want or need now is yet another éminence figure.
I didn't think the decision was good. In my opinion, Mäkelä is getting too much too soon. Another Finnish conductor that comes to mind is Okko Kamu. Kamu's career took off in 1969 when he won the first Herbert von Karajan Conducting Competition. He was only 23 years old at the time. There was talk of Kamu even being a possible successor to Karajan as the head of the Berlin Philharmonic sometime in the distant future. Karajan recommended Kamu for the position of Generalmusikdirektor in Münster, Germany, in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. There, Kamu could have patiently learned more repertoire, developed himself further, and left his personal mark on the local orchestra. Instead, Kamu seized opportunities when they arose, took on too much work, didn't have time to properly study the repertoire, began to underperform, and I understand he had to reduce his workload at some point due to the pressure. Of course, Okko Kamu didn't become a bad conductor, but by acting differently, he could have become even better and more famous. I'm afraid Mäkelä might face a similar fate due to his upcoming workload.
Daniel Barenboim gave up this job because he'd grown tired of that fact that the primary responsibility of the music director of an American orchestra is no longer setting musical standards, but rather to be the chief fundraiser, convincing the major donors to continue cutting checks. And as you yourself pointed out in this very video, the performance level of orchestras today is higher than ever across the board - which shows that there's no longer a need for a principal conductor to spend 20+ weeks a year with an orchestra to whip them into shape. The symphonic music world has changed so much over the past 75 years that I don't believe any comparison holds up.
David! Excellent post! When I saw this story, I was hoping you would weigh in. And thank you for mentioning among the other conductor options out there, JoAnn Falletta! For once, was hoping that some “major” orchestra would give her serious consideration.
Burn out and actual presence in Chicago to cultivate and contribute to civic culture will be a problem. In the interview with the Tribune, he addressed his schedule by saying his tenures in Paris and Oslo will end by the time he will be in Chicago. However, he says those orchestras will always be "family" and he will likely return to conduct weeks of concerts. Oh, and he made exceptions to always conduct in Vienna and Berlin. Amsterdam, Berlin, Vienna, Chicago, Paris, and Oslo is still a packed calendar. How much does it matter that the CSO members seem to like his conducting and, most importantly, his rehearsal "efficiency"? It could be worse. I read that a member of the violin section saw Christian Thielemann in a European cafe and begged Thielemann to accept the position in Chicago.
Comparing to the old days, when a conductor has just one or two orchestras, is problematic because of the way travel itself has changed. I think of Mahler coming over by boat, and all the decades between then and now, when train travel was the norm. Very recently, however, travel has become dreadful again. I won't be surprised if performers reduce some of their far flung commitments.
@@DavesClassicalGuidewhy do these young conductors like Makela choose this path of career: they are music directors of 2 or more orchestras in the same time instead of concentrating on one ensemble and shaping its sound like great conductors of the past? I think it influences the quality of interpretations, and as a result we miss a lot, what od your opinion?
I think it’s awesome how much of a fixture Dave has become in online classical music circles. I saw comments immediately after the appointment was announced saying something to the effect of “Can’t wait to see Dave’s reaction, he’s gonna have a field day”. This definitely did not disappoint 😂😂
If the CSO should turn out to be unpromising--there's so much else in the world of music, classical and otherwise, to experience in (and near) Chicago. I think if I moved back, I'd be excited about the Grant Park Orchestra, and the many ensembles associated with the local universities, etc.
No worries at all -- continue to look forward to the CSO. If you attend one performance you will likely attend another. I am there a lot and it is always terrific. Last night's performance was fantastic -- each of the three works on the program.
I recently left a concert in elevated mood, because of the younger conductor, Dalia Stasevska (age 39). She is of Ukrainian origin, but based in Finland (extra-musical tidbit: she is married to Sibelius' greatgrandson). Programmed were Dvorak's Cello concerto! (soloist Gaultier Capucon) and Sibelius' 5th. Stasevska's conducting was riveting, with a clear stylistic delineation between the two works programmed. She succeeded in letting the orchestra (The Danisb Radio Symphony Orchestra) play with an unmistakenly Czech, somewhat earthy, folksy tinge in Dvorak: while she in the much more complex Sibelius symphony gathered the disparate, almost rhapsodic elements to a convincing whole, while st the same time leaving room for a wealth of often unnoticed details letting themselves be heard. Stasevska is currently conductor in chief for the Lathi Symphony Orchestra and principal guest conductor of the BBC Symphony Orchestra. With so obviously a talent around, one really wonders, what is behind so many orchestra's decission of putting one (Mäkelä) egg in so many baskets? Is it the Ken-effect proposed by David - or might they have a strong urge or illusion of reviving a dream of a General Musicdirektor of the World ad modum Karajan (GM Europa)? 😅
In these days of sweltering political correctness, it is a rare pleasure to listen to someone speaking his mind without refraining himself. Thank you, Dave.
Dear David You are a bit unkind here. For some reason you have taken against Makela. Yes, he is young. Yes, he is inexperienced. But .. he has great talent, he is gifted. He is still on a learning curve. But he is much better, now, than you give credit. His Sibelius is NOT as bad as you make out. In fact, in my view (and I rate Davis/Boston and Berglund as my standard bearers), his Sibelius is excellent. You say Chicago will “teach him”. Yes. And that is great!! They are investing in a future where he will develop well. I think Chicago have made a good choice. Others that would have been worthy include Canellakis (in my view, the best female conductor to emerge in recent years), and Hrusa. But they have not made a bad choice, and I am sure we will look back in a few years and see that this was a very good appointment.
You'll be proven wrong David. He is a hit in Amsterdam. And the Concertgebouw Orchestra has even a higher reputation to preserve. The musicians of this orchestra have chosen Mäkelä themselves because of the chemistry between him and the orchestra. The Chicago people are very lucky! Lennaert v Anken (the Netherlands)
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, why don't you stop now for a while and take your own advice to "...wait and see." before dishing out more of what is increasingly landing as a series of obsessive rants about Mr. Mäkelä? And, as I noted already above, this "Ken-Doll" business of yours is just embarrassing for your reputation!
I regularly attend the San Francisco Symphony. The majority of the concerts are "standing ovation" quality. Even those for which I did not stand, I still left the Davies Symphony very pleased. That trend of excellence was broken on April 30, 2024, when Klaus Mäkelä occupied the podium to conduct Perú Negro by Jimmy López Bellido, Berg's violin concerto, and Symphony No 10 by Shostakovich. Peru Negro was ok, the composer was in house. The Berg violin concerto was so so; during applause and a few standing ovators, the soloist did not look pleased. The sonic nightmare came with the Shostakovich Tenth. The orchestra played well, but the sound was so different, so non Shostakovich. His posture was grotesque. He looked like some evil magician casting spells with his wand to butcher Shostakovich. I closed my eyes or look away to the violin section or the cellos on the right. At the end I wanted to boo, and maybe I should have, he would have heard me as I sat in the front row. I left and near the back I did manage to give a short uni-digital gesture. The local reviews were not very flattering as well.
When I heard that this guy got Chicago, I thought "I can't wait to see what Dave Hurwitz says about this", and you did not disappoint! I laughed when I saw his plans for lesser-known repertoire - Monteverdi's "Vespers" and Walton's "Belshazzar's Feast", and when I heard his (very souped-up) interview about the Chicago Symphony on TH-cam - the "connection" he felt with the orchestra is probably because they're a world-class ensemble who knows the repertoire standing on its head and need minimal direction and know to follow the conductor. He clearly doesn't have a wide-ranging knowledge of repertoire, nor has he had the time to mould a sound - he's a yes-man who's been given a shiny new toy with lots of buttons. I'll eat my words if he turns out to be brilliant, but I'm also not holding my breath...
What kind of conductor does Mäkelä want to be? With CSO under Reiner and Solti, and COA under van Beinum and Haitink both orchestras had distinct identities (“brassy” and “woody”). Will the same be said of CSO and RCO under Mäkelä? Reiner and Solti, van Beinum and Haitink were talented conductors that became great conductors mainly because of the relationship they had with their respective orchestras. I first thought Mäkelä’s post with the RCO was a good one, but I now doubt his commitment to developing a relationship with an orchestra that can turn a talented young conductor into a great one.
@@sbor2020 it's not clear whether he has that capacity yet. If this whole arrangement doesn't crash and burn before 2027, it will be years more before it becomes clear. In the meantime let's hope for some interesting guest conductors.
This is what the players want. Tell them it's a horrible mistake. It's a different world from 1950. They all (well, mostly) seem to love working for him. He has solid technique and indulges the players in their desire to make big sounds. They react to all those little gestures like they care and believe in him. Is there a big picture being painted while they do it? Probably beside the point here. The Concertgebouw musicians didn't choose him on a whim and he wasn't forced on then. Tickets will be sold on the name, which is ultimately more important these days. It seems almost churlish to care about whether or not a music director can provide outstanding interpretations, raise standards in playing or affect a change in character over time, but that's the world we're in now.
@@DavesClassicalGuide They probably still will. The question is, will he have left any stamp on them when he's done? He's being celebrated as this "sound-oriented" conductor (I know, I know), so will we have a detectable Mäkelä sound? Anything else? Seems less than likely.
Simon Rattle in Berlin was a mistake considering his recordings there. Good looking guy as a princ. conductor can be an advantage even if the interpretations are not very good. And the Orchestra likes. But sometimes a dictorship is needed.
I'd ike to see what he can do with an average orchestra. Rattle went to the CBSO in his 20's and left leaving a brilliant legacy. It's easy to be good given great material.
They had better choices, as you say, but let's see what happens. I hope he maintains the standard they've had a long time. I wish KM the best. I found out on my Gramophone news!
I absolutely agree with you, Dave! As a young concert goer from Chicago - in the age group that you would think cultural organizations are eager to attract as future patrons - I cannot find a more boring choice for music director than this. Every performance I've heard or seen of Mäkelä is essentially a non-interpretation. This is the Chat GPT version of conducting.
If he sells more tickets, fine. Given time, he may mature into a top conductor. As you say, we'll see. I read that they had put out feelers to Jurowski, but that he wasn't keen on the transatlantic commute. Too bad. He would've been fabulous with the CSO.
Dave, It’s interesting that you bring up Dudamel: Why does the young up and coming conductor model for lack of a better term, work in LA? Dudamel was in his 20’s when he got LA. Salonen was 34 when he got there. Mehta was 26 when he took over LA. Are their listeners more patient? All three of them had longer tenures there. Mehta’s LA discography, as you pointed out in the Decca box, is incredibly distinguished and gets ignored. Salonen’a LA recordings are nothing to sneeze at. Dudamel’s recordings have been more with SBYO than LA, but the earliest ones he made, while not that memorable or distinctive, are at a higher level than Mäkela’s first few releases. What lessons can Chicago learn from LA so they get this right and don’t have another Kubelik mess on their hands? It’s also interesting that Dudamel is also following the same career trajectory that Mehta did, going from LA to NY.
One thing to remember is that Mehta was not the first choice to take over LA Phil. That was Solti. When Solti was told that Mehta was to be his assistant conductor, without his approval, he immediately resigned. Mehta was in the right place at the right time.
@@davidmann4315 yes, but it still was a successful tenure with someone starting out in his mid 20’s and a discographic legacy that is still incredibly accomplished. Mehta had the chops to lead the orchestra and unlike Mäkela, the early recordings he made still hold up incredibly well.
I can understand and tolerate your criticism very well, but what I cannot tolerate is the wording of your headline, which in my opinion is stupid and insulting. Criticize him for the quality of his conducting, but not for his appearance. You are old enough that you should be able to focus on an objective discussion. From a guy that has not even heard of Mäkelä…
@@Musicmadness101 I am not overreacting but just tired of people who criticize others for certain things with inappropriate wording. His looks have nothing to do with his musical abilities whatever they might be. I personally find this way of critique quite childish. „He looks odd, therefore he behaves oddly“. That‘s simply not a valid argument.
I mean Mäkelä might get better over years but sometimes one gets a job at a young age when theyre not "ready yet" but BECOME better over time. Kubelik in Chicago, Barbirolli in New York, and Previn in Houston weren't "there" yet but were later.
Previn ran afoul of the prudish blue-haired ladies on the board, with his playboy lifestyle. He didn't last very long in Houston. Then just a few years later, he was making spectacular recordings with the LSO.
Imagine having Hindemith at a “Pops” concert now! I don’t know anything about Mäkelä, but while Cassidy was a sparkling writer, she eventually arrived at something close to a vendetta against Kubelik IMHO.
David, i agree with you. when we talk about Mahler, Bruckner, Sibelius, Stravinsky the real challenge for any conductor is to take a small or even medium orchestra and gets spectacular music through the conductor. If Mäkelä has played in a great way, but behind Orchestre de Paris, Concertgebouw, Berlin, etc, i guess they, as ensemble, will never allow to sound bad, just following someone, despite names. In fact, this "new star" tells me nothing, still prefer old redings for any great work, even not listening great orchestras
The Concertgebouw AND the CSO at the same time? What happened to taking one step at a time and building your career gradually? I'll be surprised if he's not burned out in ten years.
one more thing. muti's contract was over a few years ago. he gave them an extra season. so the board had many years to find a music director. i would loveeeee to know who else was considered.
The CSO had the pick of the litter. They chose the cute puppy. Regardless of everyone’s prognostication, he will soon be responsible for one of the world’s greatest orchestral sounds. Muti left a legacy of a superb wind section. Now the brass section needs rebuilding. We’ll have to wait and see. He is doing Mahler 3 next year and I’m worried.
"he will soon be responsible for one of the world’s greatest orchestral sounds." HIs position is no different in Oslo, Amsterdam and Paris (they're top orchestras) and he's not doing a great job!
I agree. I don't understand how a 28 year-old can be named Music Director of a major American orchestra. By his age alone, there's no way he's been exposed to the various works of music that I feel a younger me wouldn't have known by that age. I am from Chicago and haven't been to the CSO in years. I can think of several Stravinsky works that haven't been performed in well over a decade, yet take back seat to the CSO constantly repeating the same works over and over.
As another writer pointed out: Toscanini conducted his first performance at 19 and was in charge of LaScala at 32. Karajan was 21 when he debuted at Salzburg. Mengelberg was chief conductor at the Concertgebouw at 24. Kubelik was heading the Brno Opera and the Czech Phil at 25 - same age as Rattle in Birmingham. Salonen got the Swedish Radio gig at 26, and Mahler the Royal Hungarian Opera job at 27. Szell was also just 27 when he became principal conductor at the Berlin Staatsoper. Philly was Stokowski's second orchestra and he was still only 30 when he got there. As was Haitink when he followed in Mengelberg's footsteps in Amsterdam. Klemperer was 32 when he became Generalmusikdirektor in Cologne.
JoAnn Falletta deserves to lead one of the big American orchestras. She has the skill to do classical and more modern repertoirse. She has built more than one orchestra. Her recordings are great, and she can make orchestras play at the highest level. Will she be selected for one of these big posts that are free now? Cleveland, San Francisco, etc? Probably not. We will get a lesser qualified guy from Europe, and that is sad.
After your numerous mentions of Claudia Cassidy, I looked for a compendium of her music reviews, but I could only find her theater reviews in a terrific book, Bigger, Brighter, Louder: 150 Years of Chicago Theater, as Seen by Chicago Tribune Critics. The interstitial commentary by editor Chris Jones formed a fascinating history. I definitely got a feel for Cassidy's sharp intelligence and superb writing.
A fascinating analogy. However, in Mäkelä’s case, we’re speaking four major orchestras rather than one-starting with the Oslo Phil when he was 22. I can only speculate that, perhaps enabled by still-echoing pandemic-era panic over empty concert halls, marketing departments seized control of the latter three.
That is sick, having a real orchestra at 21. AT was still getting started albeit explosively, Levine was assistant in Cleveland and eventually teaching and founding UCO at CCM at 25. There's gotta be some realism. No one is born knowing scores.
I saw that report. He seems awful young to be given such a prestigious world class orchestra, but then, I suppose the pickings are pretty slim, these days.
Many, many thanks, Mr. Hurwitz. It is always extremely reassuring to listen to your wisdom and absolutely accurate assessments. Indeed, the profession is largely a racket and the criteria in determining the advancement of many all too often goes well beyond professional excellence and credible experience. Please continue your highly substantial and well-thought honesty.
I listened three times to make sure I heard it right. Did the article you read say that Hindemith's "The Four Temperaments" was going to be played at a Chicago Symphony pop concert? Don't you generally get things like "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" at pop concerts? I am trying to wrap my head around this.
That certainly got my attention, too! Personally, I love the piece, but it is rather dry and has its longeurs. And a string orchestra and piano don't deliver much in the way of color. There's not exactly tons of Hindemith for a pops program, but off-hand I'd say the Weber Metamorphoses would be reasonably engaging. Or one of the Kammermusik, perhaps. So much for trying to pull more people into the world of classical music!
I think the key point Dave makes relates to tenure, that the days when a conductor would spend years guiding and developing an orchestra, both in terms of its musical skills and the repertoire, seem to have been replaced with at best 5 year contracts -think in the past of Ormandy in Philadelphia, Szell in Cleveland, Barbirolli in Manchester, Karajan in Berlin, etc. That said, given the tremendous skills of contemporary orchestras, maybe the key will be the concert programmes, the old favourites, rarely performed works, etc. And as Mäkelä' will, one assumes, be accompanying his wife (or she accompanying him?) the concerts will probably be sold out -and available on TH-cam some time later...enjoy!
Sad when people reply with incorrect facts. I agree with him being hired for selling tickets to live events with hopes enough quality to sustain that, but he is not married and he and Yuja Wang have broken up. I get a whiff of personal bias there...
As Dutchman: Mengelberg became chief of the Concertgebouw Orchestra when he was 24, Haitink when he was 31 (his debut was at his 27th), Van Beinum conducted the orchestra the first time on his 31st and became 2nd conductor immediately (Mengelberg was the first), Riccardo Chailly became chief of the Royal Concertgebouw when he was 35 - his debut with the orchestra was years before. So whats wrong with young chief conductors....?
@@BCTMarcus Yes it was, although on cd that performance doesn't sound bad at all. Haitink first Mahler recording (nr 1) wasn't good too - that's why they made a remake some years later. A bad performance or recording doesn't say anything about the (long term) qualities of a conductor. Only afterwards we can judge.
@@janantonbrouwer3971 it's OK, I was not entirely serious. I like the recording btw, but the first movement could use way more of a 'wuchtig' character. I don't find it too slow, but just too bland. For the rest: I agree with your first post (and with your last) and the Hurwitz response was, as is quite often the case, totally meaningless.
I appreciated your knowledge, enthousiasm and critic abilities very much. But I have to point out that describe him as ‘Ken Doll’ is cheap. He really is a really great musician. I saw him in The Concertgebouw several times. His Mahler 3 was no less than brilliant. Haitink was 28 when he started… 34 when he took over the Concertgebouw. Makela will be 31….what’s the problem here? Don’t judge a book by looking at the cover. I invite you to come to Amsterdam and go see and listen for yourself. Love your videos nevertheless…keep on the good work and I will keep on listening!
Thank you for your comment which dovetails with my own of a moment ago as goes the "Ken-Doll" crap coming from hurwitz. Personal labeling of that ilk is sophomoric and detracts from anything else mr. hurwitz may have to say. In terms of how many times he has panned Mäkelä in recent memory, it's beginning to reek of obsession!
My favourite word here is grotesque. The classical music world has long since turned into a grotesque parody of itself, and the best fun is just sitting back and watching it happen.
Yt won’t let me reply to you for some reason ? Well, here’s my last attempt “ If Fritz Reiner were alive today he wouldn’t have a job, doesn’t fit the agenda and he wouldn’t get a gig out of school. Facts.” Let’s see if this goes through ;)
@@leestamm3187News should be reported responsibly. Lebrecht's site is a reflection of him, which is not a journalist. He would rather stir up gossip, inflame controversy, provoke rampant speculation and make people think he's clever before making his site a positive force in the classical music world.
@@leestamm3187 Just look at the baiting in the headlines for most of the news reported there, then get back to us on that point. There is very little on Lebrecht's website that isn't spun into something gossipy, that is his goal.
@@jwinder2 I visit the site daily. Yes, there are numerous gossipy, inflammatory and provocative items. However, I stand by my prior statement that much of the content is just plain news.
Back to Cassidy - and not to give you more work - but a book of a collection of her columns and reviews would be pretty great to read. Even the passing of years and years doesn’t diminish the impact of her words. UChicago press recently-ish published a collection of Andrew Patner’s writings and reviews of the CSO under Barenboim, Boulez, Haitink, and Muti. And there’s several fascinating book collections of columns by Mike Royko in the Herald/Sun Times/Trib. So, there is precedent. And I think you’ve written a paper on her- That could form an introductory section. See-it’s already written. Just needs a thoughtful editor to select writings that offer a good view of the time in which she lived and those that offer commentary still appropriate for today.
I have a question for you Dave. Do you think that Makela has the underlying potential and talent to become a great conductor over his career, especially with considering he is going to be gaining a lot of quick experience? And as a follow up, how could he gain any experience when even his mediocre performances are widely lauded as being spectacular by Gramaphone and others?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I was worried about that... I do hope he improves and can transcend this. But he is sort of setup for failure if he is coddled by critics
Unfortunately the duck quacked today on All Things Considered in an interview with Ari Shapiro during which Makela's Sibelius cycle was brought up. I had heard a radio broadcast of the sixth symphony conducted by him the other night that was predictably uninspired. I think that the highlight of the interview came when a certain Chicago hot dog stand was recommended, he said that he doesn't eat red meat. Maybe that is his problem.
They wanted Dudamel to be a guest conductor when they hired Muti to see if he can advance in his career so they can hire him in 5 or so years. But Dudamel got the LA job and CSO lost out. They didn't want to lose out on another guy who has gotten good reviews from the orchestra players, I think. He's not taking over for another 3 years, so hopefully he develops a repertoire before taking over full time. What the subscribers were fearing was it's going to be Marin Alsop who does Ravinia season with the CSO, who many didn't want taking over the main season.
You have talked about distinctiveness and different local schools in other videos. Wondering if at some point you could make a talk recommending benchmark recordings to get acquainted with those different schools.
Do you think lack of effective criticism is part of the problem? Nelsons has been phoning it in for years now in Boston but nobody has held him to account. Nobody’s called him out for being the tired mediocrity he has become. Could the demise of great critics explain the demise of great conductors?
Yeah, that's what I said. Chailly conducting "I Lombardi" at La Scala at 17 or 19 or something equally ludicrous? Toscanini from 1886-1899 et practically sempiternam?
Assistant conductors often have to rise to the occasion. First reading of "Moses und Aron" at the Met was led by Gareth Morrell, the cover conductor, in 1999 on half hour's notice.
I succumbed to the hype and have a copy of his Sibelius cycle, which is now relegated to a box somewhere. Ive seen some of his YT live performances, which as others have stated, have been a little better depending on the piece being played. He does interject some excitement to those concerts with his gesticulations but listening eyes closed generates much less of that.
Speaking as a musician, his gesticulations didn't generate excitement for me; they generated disapproval. He isn't signaling anything to the orchestra with them, and they actually got in the way of rhythmic stability, in the concert with the Orchestre de Paris last month at Carnegie Hall. When everything is over-the-top gestures with no context, the conductor doesn't convey the sense of form or progression in a piece, and their conducting technique doesn't have any nuance or depth. Look up his TH-cam videos with the Concertgebouw, and then focus on how much attention the musicians are actually paying attention to him; from what I have seen, they are mostly trying not to look at him.
@@jwinder2 I generally agree. I was more commenting, perhaps clumsily, that when you watch performances with conductors the visual focus is almost always on this centralized figure which leads to the effect of the eyes influencing the ears.
A lot to digest here and there are other cases apart from Kubelik in Chicago that do not prove you wrong. I've heard some of Mr. Makela's recordings and I've not been impressed but... I heard him live in Boston a few weeks ago with Orch de Paris and he was sensational. I temper that by reflecting that the program was Debussy Prelude a l apres midi d un faune and Stravinsky Complete Firebird. Not a program of dig deep and connect with the soul kind of music. And likely a program he had worked very hard on and polished with the Orchestra knowing they were going on a tour to impress which does not answer how he will be in day in and day out performances. In between he led a very lovely and lyrical performance of Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto 2 with Yuncham Lin. I wish one could say, how this will turn out is anyone's guess, but it is not a guessing game. There is, as you say, history to reflect on and in this case, ignore. One orchestra is a lot of orchestras proven by a host of great conductors who succeeded with one over a period of many years. But the fashion today seems to have 2 or more and here in Boston Andris Nelsons has, to my mind, not succeeded. He had a great beginning but rarely does that surface today. I hope better for Mr. Makela but... time will tell.
I was at the same concert in Boston on March 17th and was similarly impressed. Aside from Mäkelä’s effectiveness, I was bowled over by the sound of the Orchestre de Paris.
@@reamartin6458 Yes, it is the unanswered question: was this a moment of high preparation and polish for a tour or what to expect of him. I wonder too. What we cannot take away from him was how he breathed with the music. That was impressive. Can he do that trick again? In his defense I have to say the kid is getting a lot of negative press based on predictive opinions.
"In between[,] he led a very lovely and lyrical performance of Rach 2 with Lin." I love how it's sort of taken for granted. Concerti don't conduct themselves, and a strong soloist isn't going to make it happen, either. Bring back Ormandy.
I just listened to Maestro Mäkelä’s latest Stravinsky/Debussy endeavor. Long story short: Mediocre at best. Not to mention, a very odd sounding Flute soloist in the Debussy “l’Apres Midi”, with a vibrato as slow as molasses. I really want to root for this guy. The classical world always needs new blood to promote this amazing genre. I really hope he’ll improve.
I couldn't agree more. If we want the classical music genre to thrive, we need energizing and charismatic future talents who can also attract a younger audience to concerts. However, charisma must primarily stem from competence, persistent work, and memorable performances. We don't need any media-created bubbles that tend to burst. I have occasionally listened to performances conducted by Mäkelä because I want to give him a chance. I have heard part of his Sibelius cycle, Brahms's Fourth Symphony, and Shostakovich's Symphony No. 14. What can I say? If one only wants to hear the notes of the works, they might as well listen to Mäkelä's performances. If, however, one wants to hear a memorable and genuinely personal interpretation of the works, I can list dozens of better performances of all these works.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, but unfortunately the current audience is not immortal. In order for the audience to renew itself and for the genre to have continuity, new audiences need to somehow find their way to classical music.
@@DavesClassicalGuide By the way, Dave, in Petrushka, Mäkelä has the solo trumpet in the Ballerina dance do the same exact thing that Rattle did! Micromanaging the dynamics. 🤦♂️
So many who laud his performances forget the music itself, and the experienced orchestra, 'sell' the performance, often despite the conductor. Klaus lacks any strong musical personality thus far, though, like most conductors, he is a fine accompanist in concertos. We shall all see; thus far I am mostly unimpressed.
Detroit did much the same thing with Jader. I went to a few concerts with him until Covid descended (and then have watched some online since). And he's been, good enough, but not much more. But he seems charismatic in a way that the community loves. (And unlike Mäkella, he seems to reciprocate, rather than jetting around to several other orchestras, whichever big gigs he can add to his resume...) Trying to decide if I'm going to break some of my Covid-isolation-protocols to go see him conduct Mahler's 9th in May.
Next month, I am seeing him lead the Orchestre de Paris in a performance of Beethoven's Ninth. I will be taking my seat in the Grande salle Pierre Boulez with some trepidation. ... It's also a disappointment when, at the time of the announcement, I was working my way through Jean Martinon's CSO box, which houses a number of simply wonderful recordings, and no recording that's not at minimum quite good. The CSO deserves to be led by a conduct of that stature, as it so often has been.
Tilson Thomas has a glioblastoma, and is almost certainly in the twilight of his career because of that (look up how many people survive that for more than a year or two).
The Chicago Symphony Orchestra was at its greatest when under the guidance of its longest serving conductor Sir Georg Solti. Just my opinion of course.
I got the classical music bug sometime around 1993...as a college student in Michigan, the public radio stations (which still played classical!) played a lot of the recordings and some archived broadcasts of Solti/Chicago, so that combo formed a big part of my music education. From Barenboim onward, well.... I lived in Chicago, 2010-2014, only went to two CSO concerts in that time, and found both (both had guest conductors, Muti was hardly ever there) disappointing...
@@brianburtt7053 Thanks for your reply. I was a big follower of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Solti because of its very talented musicians. Dale Clevenger on French Horn, Bud Hersch on Trumpet and Donald Koss on timpani
Minor point, but Frederick Stock was the longest service music director of the CSO, 1905 - 1942 (37 years). Solti was music director 1969 - 1991 (22 years).
Leonard Bernstein made his New York debut when he was 25, and it seems ever since concert-goers have been looking for young rock-star/leading-role-type of conductors like Bernstein. I wonder why?
But he did not become music director of the NYP until about 40. In between came a lot of interim development and experience though quite early on he was lauded for raising the level of the New York City Symphony.
Big PR coup by Chicago, which I suppose that was the main goal with this hire. In a way "music director" nowadays is like "guest conductor for 10 weeks a year". He may only need to show up to keep people happy, musicians included. I don't dislike Mäkelä, he might as well become a great conductor at some point. I saw him last December with the Concertgebouw Orchestra here in Cologne. Beethoven's 3rd was on the program, I didn't expect too much and it was an OK performance, although I guess that's a piece the Concertgebouw can play without a conductor. He's coming again to Cologne at the end of this year, this time to conduct Mahler 6th with the Vienna Philharmonic. My expectations are much higher for that one. We'll see.
Unfortunately Barenboim and Muti were pretty washed up and uninspired during their tenures, and the quality of the woodwind section in particular has significantly declined. If only they would have appointed a conductor with enough, but not too much, experience, and hire characterful principal winds again...
@@tortuedelanuit2299 how odd...I can only speak about the one concert I heard, in Köln during their tour. The ensemble among the winds was also terrific, balance etc.
Interesting how subjective this business of judging orchestras and conductors can be. As a regular CSO-goer for decades, I can say I've been thrilled with every Muti appearance I've seen -- in particular, last spring's Mozart Gran Partita, in which the woodwinds were on fire.
David i know you are a record critic and you have said that you haven't heard a live concert from him yet so perhaps your view may change I saw him at the Edinburgh international festival usher hall last year and he packed the hall and enjoyed his shostakovich 5th give him a chance there doesn't seem many conductors nowadays can pack a large concert hall very Dissappointing where i live and attend concert s in Scotland the Hall is usually only half full no atmosphere and sad for the orchestra s
I don't care if he "packs the hall." That's not a musical fact. I am sure he can give a good concert. The question is whether he can give a good season. Does he deserve a chance? Sure he does, but he only deserve a chance in Chicago AFTER he has proven himself over a period of years.
Dave, I do enjoy your blabfests on matters musical. I agree with some of what you say and disagree on others. I think Stoki's "symphonic synthesis" from Tristan is a wonder. I disagree about Kubelik. Claudia Cassidy was a jerk who didn't't know what she was talking about. Are you ignorant re Kubelik's version of Tchaikovsky"s 4th with Chicago? Truly awesome! Comparing Makela(sp) with Kubelik is totally misguided. And Kubelik in the course of his life continued to practice wonderful music-making (Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream incidental music!) I am now an 84-year0old listener and pianist, so I've had plenty of time to listen. In my experience, the Chicago has always been a fabulous orchestra, capable pf making any conductor sound great. Anyway, do continue with your blabfests. Entertaining! What do you think of Yannkck?
I make allowances due to age. My mom is 86, BUT, you are completely wrong about Claudia Cassidy, and Kubelik too, who was always highly variable on disc as well as in person. Cassidy's entire perspective was based on hearing him live, week in, week out. One Tchaikovsky 4th does not make a career, or a great artist. For every great recording you note, I can cite a mediocre one--and I love Kubelik as an artist, I really do. But Cassidy's point was that, based on what she heard and the other options available, he was not ready for the job, and he wasn't. In fact, he wasn't ready for anything until he got to the Bavarian Radio. These are facts. Cassidy wanted Chicago to have "the best," and if they didn't get it, she was going to carry on until they did. And it worked. After Kubelik, they got Reiner. I don't know anyone who would dispute that they traded up when they made that deal.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Sorry! You are completely wrong about Cassidy. She was a buffoon, way over hr head as a must critic. I do enjoy your babbling and agree with some of it and disagree with the rest. I like your comment on the worshipful view of some cd performances, such as Carlos Kleiber's versions of Beethoven's 5 and 7. Good, yes, but easily equalled by Reiner and Chicago in that department. I disagree with your worshipful view of Mravinsjy/Leningrad on Tchaikovsky's last three. M. has them playing (or trying to play) the rushing violin scales in the last movement of the 6th way too fast -- so fast that they can barely get through them and have to play them pianissimo. Disagree also with your view that Reiner is a bit cold or tepid on the 6th. Not so! Arguably Reiner"s best recording and easily the equal of Munch and Monteux. Not enamored with Fricsay's 6th Your comments are entertaining, however. Not bad for a bare-chested percussionist!.
@@DavesClassicalGuide My favorites re Tchaikovsky's last three symphonies: 4 Kubelik Chicago 5 Koussevitzky Boston 6 Reiner Chicago (actually, Monteux and Munch with Boston are very good also) I find Mravinsky and Leningrad way over-rated. In your reviews of the Tchaikovsky ballets, I don't understand your omission of Ansermet on all three. I have read ad nauseam that L'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande is not a first-rate orchestra. They sound like a million dollars to me on each ballet!
completely off topic: I always admire the diversity of the music you talk about, but I wonder wether you would like to talk about Joachim Raff and Viennese/Austrian/German Operette if you haven't done so before 🎶😋
With the possible exception of 25 year old Leonard Bernstein's meteoric rise after replacing Bruno Walter at Carnegie Hall, is there any other 20th century conductor who was considered to be a musical genius at a fairly young age? Was Leonard Bernstein "up to the task" during that concert or was he just basically following the orchestra and Walter's annotations?
@@angloart8410 That's true in a sense, but it's not what I meant. My point is that a few generations back there was more respect for age and experience than today. Not that this was always a good thing, as it could also lead to stagnation and new valid ideas being suppressed. Ideally there should be a balance between the complementary advantages of both: youth and novelty to progress and avoid stagnation, age and experience to avoid repeating errors of the past. But in the case of (too) young musical directors for top orchestras, I feel the case made by David is valid. Then again you could question why one couldn't do the works of Mozart or Schubert well when having about their age? Why must a conductor grow old and wise to perform the works of composers who died so young?
Dear oh dear. London appearances to date have been much hyped & great photo/publicity opportunities but musically nothing special. Let's hope he matures quickly & that they're on the money in Chicago. He'll pull in the punters, of course...
Could this appointment also have to do with the Decca recording contract that Mäkelä comes with? Big orchestras get so few opportunities to record standard repertoire these days, they must all be gasping for the highly-paid recordings that Decca gives them
@@eisenaechery7591 Classical music is poison to most big record companies. They are willing to take a loss on most releases hoping to cash-in when the occasional Pavarotti or Lang Lang comes along.
Judging by the TH-cam clips of his performances, it may be better to record him 'live' in the future, otherwise we may risk the chance of 'Makela degeneration' !!😂
Maybe we're heading full-speed into the age where the visual candy covers auditory mediocrity. I can hear PR saying "As long as it looks good, it's OK. People in the audience won't know the difference anyway" - a "viseance" rather than audience?
It's good to see the myths, the horrors and the cult of personality that exist in the classical music business challenged. These people earn millions yet they're not accountable to anyone. They produce nonsense, have no idea what it takes to be in charge of big teams (and I don't just mean musical skills) and people think that it's normal. People need to wake up to reality and see how workplaces in the real world function.
I saw Makela do the Mahler 5th with Chicago and it was quite dull. I remember the finale being particularly lifeless. I really don't understand their choice.
I definitely believe San Francisco wants to expedite the appointment of a Mäkelä type who will create a new concept and image for the orchestra. Maybe they made him an offer as well? In 20 years, will the average age of music directors be 28?
I seriously hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Seems like its the same thing across the street at the ballet. They brought in Rojas, who seems like she's only interested in bringing in young audiences, while letting everything else slide. Mere Mortals was the worst thing I've ever seen at any ballet, ever. It was more modern dance than ballet, the music was horrid (canned music with a bit of live music from a handful of performers in the pit)...but the young audiences loved it and it got a lot of press.
Not happy with this choice! A friend texted me that as a Finnish-American, I must be proud to have a Finnish music director and was shocked to hear my opinion that he isn’t all that good based on recordings I’ve heard. I told my friend there are many better Finnish conductors and that I don’t really care about the ethnicity of the conductors I hear.
Maybe a young conductor has been chosen to attract young, new patrons. Makela is tall, full of dramatic gestures on the podium, a feast for the eyes. Any CSO member could conduct the orchestra as well or better than Makela. But, Makela may blossom into a fine musician.
He's already got 3 orchestras. Madness! No doubt the LSO will be chasing him next.
It will narrow to Chicago and the Concertgebouw.
Not when they have Pappano
This is the greatest channel on TH-cam that has ever existed! I'm serious! Even whenever I'm down, turning on one of Dave's videos perks me up immediately. Hence they're not only informative, but also serve as good psychotherapies for people in need of that ;) Thanx a lot Dave. May you live a very long and happy life
Wow, thanks!
It's independent media so Dave does not need to 's*ck up' to anyone! It's good to see the myths, the horrors and the cult of personality that exist in the classical music business challenged.
@@BearsBareNecessities, you're absolutely right :) We're lucky in these times
April Fools Day gets longer every year...
Even in the days when conductors were expected to rise slowly and patiently through a series of apprenticeships, there were those who did so more rapidly and at at a very young age. Even though we now think of them as old masters.
Toscanini, for example, conducted his first performance at 19 and was in charge of LaScala at 32-with a ton of prestigious posts in between. Von Karajan was 21 when he debuted at Salzburg. Mengelberg was chief conductor at the Concertgebouw at 24. Kubelik was heading the Brno Opera and the Czech Phil at 25-same age as Rattle in Birmingham. Salonen got the Swedish Radio gig at 26, and Mahler the Royal Hungarian Opera job at 27. Szell was also just 27 when he became principal conductor at the Berlin Staatsoper. Philly was Stokowski's second orchestra and he was still only 30 when he got there. As was Haitink when he followed in Mengelberg's footsteps in Amsterdam.
You can't compare what was customary then with today's situation. Standards were different, musical culture was different, expectations were totally different.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Then why are you comparing the Chicago situation of today with the Chicago situation of 70 years ago?
Exactly. There are these examples in each generation of one or two who emerge extremely early. Composers who were not as precocious as Mozart at 6 have made tremendous contributions, and so will conductors who were overlooked at this point in favor of Mäkelä. There are typically one or two like Mäkelä, sometimes none. It takes nothing away from the rest who mature later.
@@BCTMarcus THANK YOU for pointing out to dave what should be patently obvious to him... but sad to say, ISN'T!
All of that garbage he went on and on about in a tiresome reading I saw him do of a critical review of the CSO from 60 plus years ago was over the top!
Via his own line above of, "You can't compare...", that should plainly be obvious to all of us and most of all to dave.
Furthermore, this "Ken-Doll" business is childish name-calling lest we be brought to consider how turnabout could result in the suggestion of some unkind names for mr hurwitz!
Makala has none of Toscanini's skills and will never have. He just does not have the musical, managerial and whatever skill you would associated with a conductor that is paid millions. Top music schools are full of better conductors and cellists despite him trying to find every opportunity to play the cello. When the orchestras pay you millions a year and you are earning 30/40/50 or more then your first chairs, you'd better get it right.
I was eagerly waiting for this assessment, thank you Dave.
UPDATE: See promised concert impressions as reply below.
I'm 74 and have been a Chicago Symphony subscriber since college in 1968 (before Solti). I was disappointed in the selection (but expecting it) for most all of the reasons you cited. However, I think there is something else going on here, not yet mentioned. I believe there is a case for optimism based on the reasoning that the orchestra musicians leaned heavily in his direction so that they themselves could supply and apply the depth of their own vastly greater knowledge, experience and authority to shape things going forward. If the kid can learn a lot as time goes on, so much the better, but if not, they are more than happy to let him shake the stick and sell the tickets.
I heard him here doing the Stravinsky Firebird here a couple years ago and gave him props at the time, but then there wasn't much to really discern from that work. This Friday, I'll be hearing them do the Shostakovich Symphony No. 10, a piece that I'm particularly discriminatory about in its interpretation. Perhaps I'll drop by here afterwards and share impressions. Yes, I know Dave, you have to hear it for yourself.
This is an interesting perspective. As a former Chicagoan and CSO subscriber I'd like to hear of your take after this weekend's program.
Hi George. I'll be interested in hearing your impressions.
Seems to be true that the musicians overwhelmingly wanted Klaus, but do we know that's the reason?
Yes, we are eager to hear your assessment!
Just my personal inklings at present, but I'm sure we'll learn a lot more about their collective motivations before too much longer. They were still trying to reel in Muti in 2007 when the Dudamel/LAPhil announcement came down and really shook things up. Muti was hands down the right selection at that next moment in time. But now, they've seen what Dudamel wound up doing for Los Angeles and they have to want in on some of that same action. I truly believe they feel that what they don't want or need now is yet another éminence figure.
I didn't think the decision was good. In my opinion, Mäkelä is getting too much too soon. Another Finnish conductor that comes to mind is Okko Kamu. Kamu's career took off in 1969 when he won the first Herbert von Karajan Conducting Competition. He was only 23 years old at the time. There was talk of Kamu even being a possible successor to Karajan as the head of the Berlin Philharmonic sometime in the distant future. Karajan recommended Kamu for the position of Generalmusikdirektor in Münster, Germany, in the state of North Rhine-Westphalia. There, Kamu could have patiently learned more repertoire, developed himself further, and left his personal mark on the local orchestra. Instead, Kamu seized opportunities when they arose, took on too much work, didn't have time to properly study the repertoire, began to underperform, and I understand he had to reduce his workload at some point due to the pressure. Of course, Okko Kamu didn't become a bad conductor, but by acting differently, he could have become even better and more famous. I'm afraid Mäkelä might face a similar fate due to his upcoming workload.
Daniel Barenboim gave up this job because he'd grown tired of that fact that the primary responsibility of the music director of an American orchestra is no longer setting musical standards, but rather to be the chief fundraiser, convincing the major donors to continue cutting checks. And as you yourself pointed out in this very video, the performance level of orchestras today is higher than ever across the board - which shows that there's no longer a need for a principal conductor to spend 20+ weeks a year with an orchestra to whip them into shape. The symphonic music world has changed so much over the past 75 years that I don't believe any comparison holds up.
It drove Erich Leinsdorf CRAZY in Boston he couldn't wait to get back to Europe.
Good point, I agree with you.
The truth is that conducting is a fraud
Barenboim was a stain that took all of Muti’s power to erase.
The CSO needs collaboration not transformation.
@@bhuemann5347 totally agree
David! Excellent post! When I saw this story, I was hoping you would weigh in. And thank you for mentioning among the other conductor options out there, JoAnn Falletta! For once, was hoping that some “major” orchestra would give her serious consideration.
As I heard this news here in Finland, I instantly hastened to hear the awaited comments... and yes, here they were!
Finnish conductors rule the world, don't they?
It’s a growing bastion of occult culture doing mainstream
Here in Finland we seem to turn to young English conductors, because all new young Finnish conductors quickly go abroad...
Burn out and actual presence in Chicago to cultivate and contribute to civic culture will be a problem. In the interview with the Tribune, he addressed his schedule by saying his tenures in Paris and Oslo will end by the time he will be in Chicago. However, he says those orchestras will always be "family" and he will likely return to conduct weeks of concerts. Oh, and he made exceptions to always conduct in Vienna and Berlin. Amsterdam, Berlin, Vienna, Chicago, Paris, and Oslo is still a packed calendar. How much does it matter that the CSO members seem to like his conducting and, most importantly, his rehearsal "efficiency"? It could be worse. I read that a member of the violin section saw Christian Thielemann in a European cafe and begged Thielemann to accept the position in Chicago.
Yes, that would have been the kiss of death.
So the position was formally offered to Thielemann and he turned it down?
Comparing to the old days, when a conductor has just one or two orchestras, is problematic because of the way travel itself has changed. I think of Mahler coming over by boat, and all the decades between then and now, when train travel was the norm. Very recently, however, travel has become dreadful again. I won't be surprised if performers reduce some of their far flung commitments.
@@DavesClassicalGuidewhy do these young conductors like Makela choose this path of career: they are music directors of 2 or more orchestras in the same time instead of concentrating on one ensemble and shaping its sound like great conductors of the past? I think it influences the quality of interpretations, and as a result we miss a lot, what od your opinion?
I agree completly .
I was trying to think of what he looked like and why it was so uncanny and you hit the nail on the head!
I think it’s awesome how much of a fixture Dave has become in online classical music circles. I saw comments immediately after the appointment was announced saying something to the effect of “Can’t wait to see Dave’s reaction, he’s gonna have a field day”. This definitely did not disappoint 😂😂
Oh dear. In two weeks I am retiring and moving to Chicago. I have been looking forward to the Chicago Symphony. Well, we'll see. I am hopeful.
If the CSO should turn out to be unpromising--there's so much else in the world of music, classical and otherwise, to experience in (and near) Chicago. I think if I moved back, I'd be excited about the Grant Park Orchestra, and the many ensembles associated with the local universities, etc.
It'll be fine Michael. The Klaus shows will be expensive enough to skip without huge regrets anyways.
No worries at all -- continue to look forward to the CSO. If you attend one performance you will likely attend another. I am there a lot and it is always terrific. Last night's performance was fantastic -- each of the three works on the program.
I recently left a concert in elevated mood, because of the younger conductor, Dalia Stasevska (age 39). She is of Ukrainian origin, but based in Finland (extra-musical tidbit: she is married to Sibelius' greatgrandson). Programmed were Dvorak's Cello concerto! (soloist Gaultier Capucon) and Sibelius' 5th. Stasevska's conducting was riveting, with a clear stylistic delineation between the two works programmed. She succeeded in letting the orchestra (The Danisb Radio Symphony Orchestra) play with an unmistakenly Czech, somewhat earthy, folksy tinge in Dvorak: while she in the much more complex Sibelius symphony gathered the disparate, almost rhapsodic elements to a convincing whole, while st the same time leaving room for a wealth of often unnoticed details letting themselves be heard.
Stasevska is currently conductor in chief for the Lathi Symphony Orchestra and principal guest conductor of the BBC Symphony Orchestra. With so obviously a talent around, one really wonders, what is behind so many orchestra's decission of putting one (Mäkelä) egg in so many baskets? Is it the Ken-effect proposed by David - or might they have a strong urge or illusion of reviving a dream of a General Musicdirektor of the World ad modum Karajan (GM Europa)? 😅
She is impressive. She has conducted here in Chicago. But Mäkelä has been even more impressive.
When comparing mediocrity always pick the horse with the mugshot
In these days of sweltering political correctness, it is a rare pleasure to listen to someone speaking his mind without refraining himself. Thank you, Dave.
Was waiting for u to post this 😆😆
Dear David
You are a bit unkind here. For some reason you have taken against Makela. Yes, he is young. Yes, he is inexperienced. But .. he has great talent, he is gifted. He is still on a learning curve. But he is much better, now, than you give credit. His Sibelius is NOT as bad as you make out. In fact, in my view (and I rate Davis/Boston and Berglund as my standard bearers), his Sibelius is excellent. You say Chicago will “teach him”. Yes. And that is great!! They are investing in a future where he will develop well. I think Chicago have made a good choice. Others that would have been worthy include Canellakis (in my view, the best female conductor to emerge in recent years), and Hrusa. But they have not made a bad choice, and I am sure we will look back in a few years and see that this was a very good appointment.
Thank you for that!!!
You'll be proven wrong David. He is a hit in Amsterdam. And the Concertgebouw Orchestra has even a higher reputation to preserve. The musicians of this orchestra have chosen Mäkelä themselves because of the chemistry between him and the orchestra. The Chicago people are very lucky!
Lennaert v Anken (the Netherlands)
Please. Come back to me in five years. There's always a "honeymoon." We need to wait and see.
No he won’t, but running cover is funny 😆
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, why don't you stop now for a while and take your own advice to "...wait and see." before dishing out more of what is increasingly landing as a series of obsessive rants about Mr. Mäkelä?
And, as I noted already above, this "Ken-Doll" business of yours is just embarrassing for your reputation!
I regularly attend the San Francisco Symphony. The majority of the concerts are "standing ovation" quality. Even those for which I did not stand, I still left the Davies Symphony very pleased. That trend of excellence was broken on April 30, 2024, when Klaus Mäkelä occupied the podium to conduct Perú Negro by Jimmy López Bellido, Berg's violin concerto, and Symphony No 10 by Shostakovich. Peru Negro was ok, the composer was in house. The Berg violin concerto was so so; during applause and a few standing ovators, the soloist did not look pleased. The sonic nightmare came with the Shostakovich Tenth. The orchestra played well, but the sound was so different, so non Shostakovich. His posture was grotesque. He looked like some evil magician casting spells with his wand to butcher Shostakovich. I closed my eyes or look away to the violin section or the cellos on the right. At the end I wanted to boo, and maybe I should have, he would have heard me as I sat in the front row. I left and near the back I did manage to give a short uni-digital gesture. The local reviews were not very flattering as well.
This coming week the CSO radio broadcast will include his recent appearance with them with Mahler 5. You’ll be able to hear that online.
When I heard that this guy got Chicago, I thought "I can't wait to see what Dave Hurwitz says about this", and you did not disappoint!
I laughed when I saw his plans for lesser-known repertoire - Monteverdi's "Vespers" and Walton's "Belshazzar's Feast", and when I heard his (very souped-up) interview about the Chicago Symphony on TH-cam - the "connection" he felt with the orchestra is probably because they're a world-class ensemble who knows the repertoire standing on its head and need minimal direction and know to follow the conductor. He clearly doesn't have a wide-ranging knowledge of repertoire, nor has he had the time to mould a sound - he's a yes-man who's been given a shiny new toy with lots of buttons.
I'll eat my words if he turns out to be brilliant, but I'm also not holding my breath...
This is crazy, how can one man lead both the Concertgebouw Orchestra and the Chicago SO at the same time?
Guest conductors will do most of the work, and good work they will do. Gotta have a pretty face for PR, tho
What kind of conductor does Mäkelä want to be? With CSO under Reiner and Solti, and COA under van Beinum and Haitink both orchestras had distinct identities (“brassy” and “woody”). Will the same be said of CSO and RCO under Mäkelä? Reiner and Solti, van Beinum and Haitink were talented conductors that became great conductors mainly because of the relationship they had with their respective orchestras. I first thought Mäkelä’s post with the RCO was a good one, but I now doubt his commitment to developing a relationship with an orchestra that can turn a talented young conductor into a great one.
@@sbor2020 it's not clear whether he has that capacity yet. If this whole arrangement doesn't crash and burn before 2027, it will be years more before it becomes clear. In the meantime let's hope for some interesting guest conductors.
Because it’s not rooted in reality, he’s a pawn for some higher-ups…It’s engineered and Ringo Star will still reply to your fan mail if needed.
Also, I really enjoy this extended reference to Claudia Cassidy and the other videos discussing her work.
This is what the players want. Tell them it's a horrible mistake. It's a different world from 1950. They all (well, mostly) seem to love working for him. He has solid technique and indulges the players in their desire to make big sounds. They react to all those little gestures like they care and believe in him. Is there a big picture being painted while they do it? Probably beside the point here. The Concertgebouw musicians didn't choose him on a whim and he wasn't forced on then. Tickets will be sold on the name, which is ultimately more important these days. It seems almost churlish to care about whether or not a music director can provide outstanding interpretations, raise standards in playing or affect a change in character over time, but that's the world we're in now.
They love working for him now. Let's see where we are in a few years.
@@DavesClassicalGuide They probably still will. The question is, will he have left any stamp on them when he's done? He's being celebrated as this "sound-oriented" conductor (I know, I know), so will we have a detectable Mäkelä sound? Anything else? Seems less than likely.
Simon Rattle in Berlin was a mistake considering his recordings there. Good looking guy as a princ. conductor can be an advantage even if the interpretations are not very good. And the Orchestra likes. But sometimes a dictorship is needed.
I'd ike to see what he can do with an average orchestra. Rattle went to the CBSO in his 20's and left leaving a brilliant legacy. It's easy to be good given great material.
Rattle's legacy was less brilliant than we have been led to believe.
They had better choices, as you say, but let's see what happens. I hope he maintains the standard they've had a long time. I wish KM the best. I found out on my Gramophone news!
I absolutely agree with you, Dave! As a young concert goer from Chicago - in the age group that you would think cultural organizations are eager to attract as future patrons - I cannot find a more boring choice for music director than this. Every performance I've heard or seen of Mäkelä is essentially a non-interpretation. This is the Chat GPT version of conducting.
Agreed 👍
If he sells more tickets, fine. Given time, he may mature into a top conductor. As you say, we'll see. I read that they had put out feelers to Jurowski, but that he wasn't keen on the transatlantic commute. Too bad. He would've been fabulous with the CSO.
World class orchestras shouldn't be training grounds. Good looks are the first impression for audiences, I think. It's like dating.
@@petroslinardos I totally agree, but the decision has been made. As a CSO fan since the 1960's, I hope it works out for them.
Dave, It’s interesting that you bring up Dudamel: Why does the young up and coming conductor model for lack of a better term, work in LA?
Dudamel was in his 20’s when he got LA.
Salonen was 34 when he got there.
Mehta was 26 when he took over LA.
Are their listeners more patient? All three of them had longer tenures there.
Mehta’s LA discography, as you pointed out in the Decca box, is incredibly distinguished and gets ignored.
Salonen’a LA recordings are nothing to sneeze at.
Dudamel’s recordings have been more with SBYO than LA, but the earliest ones he made, while not that memorable or distinctive, are at a higher level than Mäkela’s first few releases.
What lessons can Chicago learn from LA so they get this right and don’t have another Kubelik mess on their hands?
It’s also interesting that Dudamel is also following the same career trajectory that Mehta did, going from LA to NY.
Came here to say the same thing.
One thing to remember is that Mehta was not the first choice to take over LA Phil. That was Solti. When Solti was told that Mehta was to be his assistant conductor, without his approval, he immediately resigned. Mehta was in the right place at the right time.
@@davidmann4315 yes, but it still was a successful tenure with someone starting out in his mid 20’s and a discographic legacy that is still incredibly accomplished.
Mehta had the chops to lead the orchestra and unlike Mäkela, the early recordings he made still hold up incredibly well.
@@davidmann4315How interesting! I did not know that.
@@Classical741 yes Solti mentioned it in his memoirs
I can understand and tolerate your criticism very well, but what I cannot tolerate is the wording of your headline, which in my opinion is stupid and insulting. Criticize him for the quality of his conducting, but not for his appearance. You are old enough that you should be able to focus on an objective discussion. From a guy that has not even heard of Mäkelä…
His appearance is the only reason he was hired at Chicago, so it is fair to criticize his appearance.
Get over yourself. It’s a damn joke. Are you 3?
@@NKMedtnerProof
@@Musicmadness101 I am not overreacting but just tired of people who criticize others for certain things with inappropriate wording. His looks have nothing to do with his musical abilities whatever they might be. I personally find this way of critique quite childish. „He looks odd, therefore he behaves oddly“. That‘s simply not a valid argument.
@@NKMedtner Says you, who are apparently inside the board room there in Chicago and in the know!
Whatever happened to "wait & see"?
I mean Mäkelä might get better over years but sometimes one gets a job at a young age when theyre not "ready yet" but BECOME better over time. Kubelik in Chicago, Barbirolli in New York, and Previn in Houston weren't "there" yet but were later.
None of those conductors "became" anything in those places. It all happened later. Much later.
@@DavesClassicalGuide That's actually what I meant Dave but I didnt phrase it correctly. I edited my comment.
Previn ran afoul of the prudish blue-haired ladies on the board, with his playboy lifestyle. He didn't last very long in Houston. Then just a few years later, he was making spectacular recordings with the LSO.
@@LyleFrancisDelp THIS ....
@@maestroclassico5801 And please note...I'm from Houston. During Previn's tenure, I was but a child. If only.....
Imagine having Hindemith at a “Pops” concert now!
I don’t know anything about Mäkelä, but while Cassidy was a sparkling writer, she eventually arrived at something close to a vendetta against Kubelik IMHO.
David, i agree with you. when we talk about Mahler, Bruckner, Sibelius, Stravinsky the real challenge for any conductor is to take a small or even medium orchestra and gets spectacular music through the conductor. If Mäkelä has played in a great way, but behind Orchestre de Paris, Concertgebouw, Berlin, etc, i guess they, as ensemble, will never allow to sound bad, just following someone, despite names. In fact, this "new star" tells me nothing, still prefer old redings for any great work, even not listening great orchestras
The Concertgebouw AND the CSO at the same time? What happened to taking one step at a time and building your career gradually? I'll be surprised if he's not burned out in ten years.
one more thing. muti's contract was over a few years ago. he gave them an extra season. so the board had many years to find a music director. i would loveeeee to know who else was considered.
The CSO had the pick of the litter. They chose the cute puppy. Regardless of everyone’s prognostication, he will soon be responsible for one of the world’s greatest orchestral sounds. Muti left a legacy of a superb wind section. Now the brass section needs rebuilding. We’ll have to wait and see. He is doing Mahler 3 next year and I’m worried.
"he will soon be responsible for one of the world’s greatest orchestral sounds." HIs position is no different in Oslo, Amsterdam and Paris (they're top orchestras) and he's not doing a great job!
I agree. I don't understand how a 28 year-old can be named Music Director of a major American orchestra. By his age alone, there's no way he's been exposed to the various works of music that I feel a younger me wouldn't have known by that age. I am from Chicago and haven't been to the CSO in years. I can think of several Stravinsky works that haven't been performed in well over a decade, yet take back seat to the CSO constantly repeating the same works over and over.
Chat gpt conducts also, has more humanity.
As another writer pointed out: Toscanini conducted his first performance at 19 and was in charge of LaScala at 32. Karajan was 21 when he debuted at Salzburg. Mengelberg was chief conductor at the Concertgebouw at 24. Kubelik was heading the Brno Opera and the Czech Phil at 25 - same age as Rattle in Birmingham. Salonen got the Swedish Radio gig at 26, and Mahler the Royal Hungarian Opera job at 27. Szell was also just 27 when he became principal conductor at the Berlin Staatsoper. Philly was Stokowski's second orchestra and he was still only 30 when he got there. As was Haitink when he followed in Mengelberg's footsteps in Amsterdam. Klemperer was 32 when he became Generalmusikdirektor in Cologne.
I think your own statement "....haven't been to the CSO in years..." tells us volumes.
JoAnn Falletta deserves to lead one of the big American orchestras. She has the skill to do classical and more modern repertoirse. She has built more than one orchestra. Her recordings are great, and she can make orchestras play at the highest level. Will she be selected for one of these big posts that are free now? Cleveland, San Francisco, etc? Probably not. We will get a lesser qualified guy from Europe, and that is sad.
After your numerous mentions of Claudia Cassidy, I looked for a compendium of her music reviews, but I could only find her theater reviews in a terrific book, Bigger, Brighter, Louder: 150 Years of Chicago Theater, as Seen by Chicago Tribune Critics. The interstitial commentary by editor Chris Jones formed a fascinating history. I definitely got a feel for Cassidy's sharp intelligence and superb writing.
I have much of her output for the Chicago Tribune. It's in their archive.
A fascinating analogy. However, in Mäkelä’s case, we’re speaking four major orchestras rather than one-starting with the Oslo Phil when he was 22. I can only speculate that, perhaps enabled by still-echoing pandemic-era panic over empty concert halls, marketing departments seized control of the latter three.
That is sick, having a real orchestra at 21. AT was still getting started albeit explosively, Levine was assistant in Cleveland and eventually teaching and founding UCO at CCM at 25. There's gotta be some realism. No one is born knowing scores.
I saw that report. He seems awful young to be given such a prestigious world class orchestra, but then, I suppose the pickings are pretty slim, these days.
Not as slim as that.
@@DavesClassicalGuide True, I get your point. There are a lot of qualified conductors on the market, but they apparently wanted a pretty superstar.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Oh...and my triplets are the same age as Mäkelä. Good grief....he is not ready for this post.
@@DavesClassicalGuide 14:50. Um.....that was my exact point. Pickings are slim.
I can literally find 20 more qualified young conductors graduating from conservatories this year, not slim at all
Many, many thanks, Mr. Hurwitz. It is always extremely reassuring to listen to your wisdom and absolutely accurate assessments. Indeed, the profession is largely a racket and the criteria in determining the advancement of many all too often goes well beyond professional excellence and credible experience. Please continue your highly substantial and well-thought honesty.
I listened three times to make sure I heard it right. Did the article you read say that Hindemith's "The Four Temperaments" was going to be played at a Chicago Symphony pop concert? Don't you generally get things like "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" at pop concerts? I am trying to wrap my head around this.
Yep.
That certainly got my attention, too! Personally, I love the piece, but it is rather dry and has its longeurs. And a string orchestra and piano don't deliver much in the way of color. There's not exactly tons of Hindemith for a pops program, but off-hand I'd say the Weber Metamorphoses would be reasonably engaging. Or one of the Kammermusik, perhaps. So much for trying to pull more people into the world of classical music!
I was just scanning the comments to see if anyone else had brought this up. Hilarious.
@@dennischiapello7243Sinfonia Serena would be welcome at a Pops concert, I think. Even the Op.50 Concert Music for Strings and Brass.
I think the key point Dave makes relates to tenure, that the days when a conductor would spend years guiding and developing an orchestra, both in terms of its musical skills and the repertoire, seem to have been replaced with at best 5 year contracts -think in the past of Ormandy in Philadelphia, Szell in Cleveland, Barbirolli in Manchester, Karajan in Berlin, etc. That said, given the tremendous skills of contemporary orchestras, maybe the key will be the concert programmes, the old favourites, rarely performed works, etc. And as Mäkelä' will, one assumes, be accompanying his wife (or she accompanying him?) the concerts will probably be sold out -and available on TH-cam some time later...enjoy!
Sad when people reply with incorrect facts. I agree with him being hired for selling tickets to live events with hopes enough quality to sustain that, but he is not married and he and Yuja Wang have broken up. I get a whiff of personal bias there...
@@bloodgrss I didn't know that so my fault for not keeping up with the news
No fault, I just happen to know; and her cancellation of Chicago concerts with him and perhaps more is an unfortunate result...@@clementewerner
As Dutchman: Mengelberg became chief of the Concertgebouw Orchestra when he was 24, Haitink when he was 31 (his debut was at his 27th), Van Beinum conducted the orchestra the first time on his 31st and became 2nd conductor immediately (Mengelberg was the first), Riccardo Chailly became chief of the Royal Concertgebouw when he was 35 - his debut with the orchestra was years before. So whats wrong with young chief conductors....?
You answered your own question.
@@DavesClassicalGuide He did. Chailly started off with a.o. Mahler 6. Mahler, the God of Amsterdam, how dared he! It was terrible, wasn't it?
@@BCTMarcus Yes it was, although on cd that performance doesn't sound bad at all. Haitink first Mahler recording (nr 1) wasn't good too - that's why they made a remake some years later. A bad performance or recording doesn't say anything about the (long term) qualities of a conductor. Only afterwards we can judge.
@@janantonbrouwer3971 it's OK, I was not entirely serious. I like the recording btw, but the first movement could use way more of a 'wuchtig' character. I don't find it too slow, but just too bland. For the rest: I agree with your first post (and with your last) and the Hurwitz response was, as is quite often the case, totally meaningless.
@@DavesClassicalGuide ouch
I appreciated your knowledge, enthousiasm and critic abilities very much. But I have to point out that describe him as ‘Ken Doll’ is cheap. He really is a really great musician. I saw him in The Concertgebouw several times. His Mahler 3 was no less than brilliant. Haitink was 28 when he started… 34 when he took over the Concertgebouw. Makela will be 31….what’s the problem here? Don’t judge a book by looking at the cover. I invite you to come to Amsterdam and go see and listen for yourself.
Love your videos nevertheless…keep on the good work and I will keep on listening!
I’ll never buy a ticket
"His Mahler 3 was no less than brilliant." Bring it, there's a really really (really) high bar there. Happy to believe it when I hear it.
Thank you for your comment which dovetails with my own of a moment ago as goes the "Ken-Doll" crap coming from hurwitz.
Personal labeling of that ilk is sophomoric and detracts from anything else mr. hurwitz may have to say.
In terms of how many times he has panned Mäkelä in recent memory, it's beginning to reek of obsession!
Got a question - do you think the younger the conductor, the cheaper the cheque?
No.
The recent article in the New Yorker by Alex Ross makes many of the same observations. Worth a read.
My favourite word here is grotesque. The classical music world has long since turned into a grotesque parody of itself, and the best fun is just sitting back and watching it happen.
Some members of the orchestra have been playing longer than he’s been alive… good grief.
Exactly… the current principal trombone was hired by Reiner himself
@@kestrel4733 I believe he actually got the job under Martinon.
@@aprilatherton739 Hired under Reiner as Associate, got the Principal job under Martinon.
If only Fritz Reiner were still alive. Those were the days!
Not sure he'd be willing to lead an ensemble made up of almost half women.
Fritz Reiner would not be employed today doesn’t fit the agenda he probably wouldn’t get a gig out of school
If Fritz Reiner were alive today he wouldn’t have a job, doesn’t fit the agenda and he wouldn’t get a gig out of school. Facts.
If Fritz Reiner were alive today he wouldn’t have a job, doesn’t fit the agenda and he wouldn’t get a gig out of school. Facts.
Yt won’t let me reply to you for some reason ? Well, here’s my last attempt “ If Fritz Reiner were alive today he wouldn’t have a job, doesn’t fit the agenda and he wouldn’t get a gig out of school. Facts.” Let’s see if this goes through ;)
Even our friend Norman Lebrecht agrees its madness!
Whatever one thinks about Lebrecht, his site is a good source for classical music news.
@@leestamm3187News should be reported responsibly. Lebrecht's site is a reflection of him, which is not a journalist. He would rather stir up gossip, inflame controversy, provoke rampant speculation and make people think he's clever before making his site a positive force in the classical music world.
@@joshgrumiaux6820 Those certainly are valid criticisms, but much of the content there is simply news, with no editorializing.
@@leestamm3187 Just look at the baiting in the headlines for most of the news reported there, then get back to us on that point. There is very little on Lebrecht's website that isn't spun into something gossipy, that is his goal.
@@jwinder2 I visit the site daily. Yes, there are numerous gossipy, inflammatory and provocative items. However, I stand by my prior statement that much of the content is just plain news.
Boy, was I expecting THIS one!
Back to Cassidy - and not to give you more work - but a book of a collection of her columns and reviews would be pretty great to read. Even the passing of years and years doesn’t diminish the impact of her words. UChicago press recently-ish published a collection of Andrew Patner’s writings and reviews of the CSO under Barenboim, Boulez, Haitink, and Muti. And there’s several fascinating book collections of columns by Mike Royko in the Herald/Sun Times/Trib. So, there is precedent. And I think you’ve written a paper on her- That could form an introductory section. See-it’s already written. Just needs a thoughtful editor to select writings that offer a good view of the time in which she lived and those that offer commentary still appropriate for today.
Why call him a Ken-Doll?!? I find it quite rude and disrespectful.
It is exactly what he is. And I know that pretty well.
@@RomeroArandaJAnd what exactly gives you the right to write this? You’re too quick to judge and disrespect other people. It’s not right.
Watch the video about makelas stravinsky rite of spring that dave made. It’s pretty much an inside joke
Womp womp
I have a question for you Dave. Do you think that Makela has the underlying potential and talent to become a great conductor over his career, especially with considering he is going to be gaining a lot of quick experience?
And as a follow up, how could he gain any experience when even his mediocre performances are widely lauded as being spectacular by Gramaphone and others?
I think you answered your own question...
@@DavesClassicalGuide I was worried about that... I do hope he improves and can transcend this. But he is sort of setup for failure if he is coddled by critics
Unfortunately the duck quacked today on All Things Considered in an interview with Ari Shapiro during which Makela's Sibelius cycle was brought up. I had heard a radio broadcast of the sixth symphony conducted by him the other night that was predictably uninspired. I think that the highlight of the interview came when a certain Chicago hot dog stand was recommended, he said that he doesn't eat red meat. Maybe that is his problem.
They wanted Dudamel to be a guest conductor when they hired Muti to see if he can advance in his career so they can hire him in 5 or so years. But Dudamel got the LA job and CSO lost out. They didn't want to lose out on another guy who has gotten good reviews from the orchestra players, I think. He's not taking over for another 3 years, so hopefully he develops a repertoire before taking over full time.
What the subscribers were fearing was it's going to be Marin Alsop who does Ravinia season with the CSO, who many didn't want taking over the main season.
You have talked about distinctiveness and different local schools in other videos. Wondering if at some point you could make a talk recommending benchmark recordings to get acquainted with those different schools.
Do you think lack of effective criticism is part of the problem? Nelsons has been phoning it in for years now in Boston but nobody has held him to account. Nobody’s called him out for being the tired mediocrity he has become. Could the demise of great critics explain the demise of great conductors?
Yes, that's part of it.
Where's Claudia Cassidy when we need her?
@@bbailey7818 Or in Boston's case - Michael Steinberg (R.I.P.)
I knew you would bring up Kubelik.... but Kubelik was a polished conductor in contrast to Makela. There are great recordings by Kubelik in Chicago.
I hear Barbie has bailed on him and cancelled all their concerts together, including Bartok 2 in Chicago 😂😂
He’s a user and probably an abus…..
@@reamartin6458 That is a shamefully regrettable thing to post on a public forum and akin to slander!
Stick to the music or leave it alone!
Oh my my my porcelain feelings
@@reamartin6458 Not really but rather it points to YOUR LACK OF DECENCY & SPECULATION, my friend.
WHAT???????? Seriously....I am shocked...thank you for the Information...I need indeed a drink....
Yeah, that's what I said. Chailly conducting "I Lombardi" at La Scala at 17 or 19 or something equally ludicrous?
Toscanini from 1886-1899 et practically sempiternam?
Assistant conductors often have to rise to the occasion. First reading of "Moses und Aron" at the Met was led by Gareth Morrell, the cover conductor, in 1999 on half hour's notice.
I succumbed to the hype and have a copy of his Sibelius cycle, which is now relegated to a box somewhere. Ive seen some of his YT live performances, which as others have stated, have been a little better depending on the piece being played. He does interject some excitement to those concerts with his gesticulations but listening eyes closed generates much less of that.
I prefer not to look at his wide-eyed, limp-wristed, slack-jawed affect.
Speaking as a musician, his gesticulations didn't generate excitement for me; they generated disapproval. He isn't signaling anything to the orchestra with them, and they actually got in the way of rhythmic stability, in the concert with the Orchestre de Paris last month at Carnegie Hall. When everything is over-the-top gestures with no context, the conductor doesn't convey the sense of form or progression in a piece, and their conducting technique doesn't have any nuance or depth. Look up his TH-cam videos with the Concertgebouw, and then focus on how much attention the musicians are actually paying attention to him; from what I have seen, they are mostly trying not to look at him.
@@jwinder2 I generally agree. I was more commenting, perhaps clumsily, that when you watch performances with conductors the visual focus is almost always on this centralized figure which leads to the effect of the eyes influencing the ears.
A lot to digest here and there are other cases apart from Kubelik in Chicago that do not prove you wrong.
I've heard some of Mr. Makela's recordings and I've not been impressed but...
I heard him live in Boston a few weeks ago with Orch de Paris and he was sensational. I temper that by reflecting that the program was Debussy Prelude a l apres midi d un faune and Stravinsky Complete Firebird. Not a program of dig deep and connect with the soul kind of music. And likely a program he had worked very hard on and polished with the Orchestra knowing they were going on a tour to impress which does not answer how he will be in day in and day out performances. In between he led a very lovely and lyrical performance of Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto 2 with Yuncham Lin.
I wish one could say, how this will turn out is anyone's guess, but it is not a guessing game. There is, as you say, history to reflect on and in this case, ignore. One orchestra is a lot of orchestras proven by a host of great conductors who succeeded with one over a period of many years. But the fashion today seems to have 2 or more and here in Boston Andris Nelsons has, to my mind, not succeeded. He had a great beginning but rarely does that surface today. I hope better for Mr. Makela but... time will tell.
I was at the same concert in Boston on March 17th and was similarly impressed. Aside from Mäkelä’s effectiveness, I was bowled over by the sound of the Orchestre de Paris.
It’s the orchestra not the
Kid!! …give him the Montgomery Civic orc. and let me know what you think? 😂
@@markmiller8486 Indeed it was spectacular. Now the question is can he do as well in the day in and day out work of a music director?
@@reamartin6458 Yes, it is the unanswered question: was this a moment of high preparation and polish for a tour or what to expect of him. I wonder too.
What we cannot take away from him was how he breathed with the music. That was impressive. Can he do that trick again?
In his defense I have to say the kid is getting a lot of negative press based on predictive opinions.
"In between[,] he led a very lovely and lyrical performance of Rach 2 with Lin." I love how it's sort of taken for granted. Concerti don't conduct themselves, and a strong soloist isn't going to make it happen, either. Bring back Ormandy.
Goodness was I waiting for this video since the JOKE dropped…..Absolutely ridiculous and embarrassing for such a renowned orchestra
I just listened to Maestro Mäkelä’s latest Stravinsky/Debussy endeavor. Long story short: Mediocre at best. Not to mention, a very odd sounding Flute soloist in the Debussy “l’Apres Midi”, with a vibrato as slow as molasses. I really want to root for this guy. The classical world always needs new blood to promote this amazing genre. I really hope he’ll improve.
I couldn't agree more. If we want the classical music genre to thrive, we need energizing and charismatic future talents who can also attract a younger audience to concerts. However, charisma must primarily stem from competence, persistent work, and memorable performances. We don't need any media-created bubbles that tend to burst.
I have occasionally listened to performances conducted by Mäkelä because I want to give him a chance. I have heard part of his Sibelius cycle, Brahms's Fourth Symphony, and Shostakovich's Symphony No. 14. What can I say? If one only wants to hear the notes of the works, they might as well listen to Mäkelä's performances. If, however, one wants to hear a memorable and genuinely personal interpretation of the works, I can list dozens of better performances of all these works.
We don't need a younger audience. That's nonsense. We just need an audience. Period.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes, but unfortunately the current audience is not immortal. In order for the audience to renew itself and for the genre to have continuity, new audiences need to somehow find their way to classical music.
@@DavesClassicalGuide By the way, Dave, in Petrushka, Mäkelä has the solo trumpet in the Ballerina dance do the same exact thing that Rattle did! Micromanaging the dynamics. 🤦♂️
So many who laud his performances forget the music itself, and the experienced orchestra, 'sell' the performance, often despite the conductor. Klaus lacks any strong musical personality thus far, though, like most conductors, he is a fine accompanist in concertos. We shall all see; thus far I am mostly unimpressed.
Detroit did much the same thing with Jader. I went to a few concerts with him until Covid descended (and then have watched some online since). And he's been, good enough, but not much more. But he seems charismatic in a way that the community loves. (And unlike Mäkella, he seems to reciprocate, rather than jetting around to several other orchestras, whichever big gigs he can add to his resume...) Trying to decide if I'm going to break some of my Covid-isolation-protocols to go see him conduct Mahler's 9th in May.
Maybe orchestras should have blind auditions for music directors like they supposedly do for players.
Yes! They could rap the conductor up in bandages from head to foot, leaving only their hands exposed to perform their magic. Haha!
Title alone made me laugh. Don’t listen to these crybabies.
I was expecting this. He seems to be quite popular with the musicians, so let us keep up the thumbs.
That means nothing.
Who wouldn't want a young friendly boss who never growls at you and will be basically out of the picture for the next few years?
i fell to my knees in the cafeteria on campus yesterday....
In thanks or in shock?
in horror!@@HassoBenSoba
You learned that real merit and talent doesn’t matter?
Next month, I am seeing him lead the Orchestre de Paris in a performance of Beethoven's Ninth. I will be taking my seat in the Grande salle Pierre Boulez with some trepidation. ... It's also a disappointment when, at the time of the announcement, I was working my way through Jean Martinon's CSO box, which houses a number of simply wonderful recordings, and no recording that's not at minimum quite good. The CSO deserves to be led by a conduct of that stature, as it so often has been.
Wear a tie.
Poor CSO…I’m seriously concerned for their future! I’d have selected among Jurowski, Salonen, Tilson Thomas, Chung
Tilson Thomas has a glioblastoma, and is almost certainly in the twilight of his career because of that (look up how many people survive that for more than a year or two).
@@jwinder2 I didn’t know about him being illed…sad to hear that
The Chicago Symphony Orchestra was at its greatest when under the guidance of its longest serving conductor Sir Georg Solti. Just my opinion of course.
I got the classical music bug sometime around 1993...as a college student in Michigan, the public radio stations (which still played classical!) played a lot of the recordings and some archived broadcasts of Solti/Chicago, so that combo formed a big part of my music education. From Barenboim onward, well.... I lived in Chicago, 2010-2014, only went to two CSO concerts in that time, and found both (both had guest conductors, Muti was hardly ever there) disappointing...
@@brianburtt7053 Thanks for your reply. I was a big follower of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra under Solti because of its very talented musicians. Dale Clevenger on French Horn, Bud Hersch on Trumpet and Donald Koss on timpani
@@Richard-b5r9v Not to be picky, but it was Bud Herseth, not Hersch. I also would include Donald Peck on flute and Ray Still on oboe, among others.
@@Richard-b5r9v Bud Herseth
Minor point, but Frederick Stock was the longest service music director of the CSO, 1905 - 1942 (37 years). Solti was music director 1969 - 1991 (22 years).
Leonard Bernstein made his New York debut when he was 25, and it seems ever since concert-goers have been looking for young rock-star/leading-role-type of conductors like Bernstein. I wonder why?
But he did not become music director of the NYP until about 40. In between came a lot of interim development and experience though quite early on he was lauded for raising the level of the New York City Symphony.
After he rolled a few cigars for Copeland, I’m sure
What is going on in Chicago? First they employ a great conductor but who is now too old to deliver quality music and now this.
Big PR coup by Chicago, which I suppose that was the main goal with this hire. In a way "music director" nowadays is like "guest conductor for 10 weeks a year". He may only need to show up to keep people happy, musicians included. I don't dislike Mäkelä, he might as well become a great conductor at some point. I saw him last December with the Concertgebouw Orchestra here in Cologne. Beethoven's 3rd was on the program, I didn't expect too much and it was an OK performance, although I guess that's a piece the Concertgebouw can play without a conductor. He's coming again to Cologne at the end of this year, this time to conduct Mahler 6th with the Vienna Philharmonic. My expectations are much higher for that one. We'll see.
What will Muti do now, retired? How do you rate his years at Chicago, Dave?
I don't know what he's do, and I have no opinion about his years in Chicago because I wasn't there.
OMG this is ridiculous..and, young or not, what counts it's the artistry he's shown so far..not much, I'd say
Unfortunately Barenboim and Muti were pretty washed up and uninspired during their tenures, and the quality of the woodwind section in particular has significantly declined. If only they would have appointed a conductor with enough, but not too much, experience, and hire characterful principal winds again...
You are absolutely correct.
Just heard Chicago live with Muti (Italian Symphony of Mendelssohn) . The winds were PHENOMENAL
@@TichmanClassCologne Then hopefully they're getting out of their rut, because they have even had major tuning issues in recent years.
@@tortuedelanuit2299 how odd...I can only speak about the one concert I heard, in Köln during their tour. The ensemble among the winds was also terrific, balance etc.
Interesting how subjective this business of judging orchestras and conductors can be. As a regular CSO-goer for decades, I can say I've been thrilled with every Muti appearance I've seen -- in particular, last spring's Mozart Gran Partita, in which the woodwinds were on fire.
David i know you are a record critic and you have said that you haven't heard a live concert from him yet so perhaps your view may change I saw him at the Edinburgh international festival usher hall last year and he packed the hall and enjoyed his shostakovich 5th give him a chance there doesn't seem many conductors nowadays can pack a large concert hall very Dissappointing where i live and attend concert s in Scotland the Hall is usually only half full no atmosphere and sad for the orchestra s
I don't care if he "packs the hall." That's not a musical fact. I am sure he can give a good concert. The question is whether he can give a good season. Does he deserve a chance? Sure he does, but he only deserve a chance in Chicago AFTER he has proven himself over a period of years.
Dave, I do enjoy your blabfests on matters musical. I agree with some of what you say and disagree on others. I think Stoki's "symphonic synthesis" from Tristan is a wonder. I disagree about Kubelik. Claudia Cassidy was a jerk who didn't't know what she was talking about. Are you ignorant re Kubelik's version of Tchaikovsky"s 4th with Chicago? Truly awesome! Comparing Makela(sp) with Kubelik is totally misguided. And Kubelik in the course of his life continued to practice wonderful music-making (Mendelssohn's Midsummer Night's Dream incidental music!) I am now an 84-year0old listener and pianist, so I've had plenty of time to listen. In my experience, the Chicago has always been a fabulous orchestra, capable pf making any conductor sound great. Anyway, do continue with your blabfests. Entertaining! What do you think of Yannkck?
I make allowances due to age. My mom is 86, BUT, you are completely wrong about Claudia Cassidy, and Kubelik too, who was always highly variable on disc as well as in person. Cassidy's entire perspective was based on hearing him live, week in, week out. One Tchaikovsky 4th does not make a career, or a great artist. For every great recording you note, I can cite a mediocre one--and I love Kubelik as an artist, I really do. But Cassidy's point was that, based on what she heard and the other options available, he was not ready for the job, and he wasn't. In fact, he wasn't ready for anything until he got to the Bavarian Radio. These are facts. Cassidy wanted Chicago to have "the best," and if they didn't get it, she was going to carry on until they did. And it worked. After Kubelik, they got Reiner. I don't know anyone who would dispute that they traded up when they made that deal.
@@DavesClassicalGuide the fact is, Cassidy was a buffoon. There is no point in citing her as any kind of authority.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Sorry! You are completely wrong about Cassidy. She was a buffoon, way over hr head as a must critic. I do enjoy your babbling and agree with some of it and disagree with the rest. I like your comment on the worshipful view of some cd performances, such as Carlos Kleiber's versions of Beethoven's 5 and 7. Good, yes, but easily equalled by Reiner and Chicago in that department. I disagree with your worshipful view of Mravinsjy/Leningrad on Tchaikovsky's last three. M. has them playing (or trying to play) the rushing violin scales in the last movement of the 6th way too fast -- so fast that they can barely get through them and have to play them pianissimo. Disagree also with your view that Reiner is a bit cold or tepid on the 6th. Not so! Arguably Reiner"s best recording and easily the equal of Munch and Monteux. Not enamored with Fricsay's 6th Your comments are entertaining, however. Not bad for a bare-chested percussionist!.
@@DavesClassicalGuide My favorites re Tchaikovsky's last three symphonies: 4 Kubelik Chicago 5 Koussevitzky Boston 6 Reiner Chicago (actually, Monteux and Munch with Boston are very good also) I find Mravinsky and Leningrad way over-rated. In your reviews of the Tchaikovsky ballets, I don't understand your omission of Ansermet on all three. I have read ad nauseam that L'Orchestre de la Suisse Romande is not a first-rate orchestra. They sound like a million dollars to me on each ballet!
Dave's rants. My favorite videos!
completely off topic: I always admire the diversity of the music you talk about, but I wonder wether you would like to talk about Joachim Raff and Viennese/Austrian/German Operette if you haven't done so before 🎶😋
...because I personally would love to hear your take on this composer and this genre
I have spoken about Raff.
The very thought about Sibelius from Chicago...
Sorry, wrong spot for that.
With the possible exception of 25 year old Leonard Bernstein's meteoric rise after replacing Bruno Walter at Carnegie Hall, is there any other 20th century conductor who was considered to be a musical genius at a fairly young age? Was Leonard Bernstein "up to the task" during that concert or was he just basically following the orchestra and Walter's annotations?
Who knows, but then, his "meteoric rise" was far more complicated than that single concert.
Guido Cantelli? But he didn't become a Music Director until he was in his mid 30's (and then sadly died shortly thereafter).
Lorin Maazel was a child prodigy
He did his job. That's what they're hired to do. He just happened "by kismet" to get a whole lotta notice.
George Szell, Wilhelm Furtwangler and Loren Mazell to name three who were recognized as musical geniuses when young.
Isn't this a symptom of a general tendency in our society to value novelty and youth and to disregard and dismiss experience?
@@angloart8410 That's true in a sense, but it's not what I meant. My point is that a few generations back there was more respect for age and experience than today. Not that this was always a good thing, as it could also lead to stagnation and new valid ideas being suppressed. Ideally there should be a balance between the complementary advantages of both: youth and novelty to progress and avoid stagnation, age and experience to avoid repeating errors of the past. But in the case of (too) young musical directors for top orchestras, I feel the case made by David is valid. Then again you could question why one couldn't do the works of Mozart or Schubert well when having about their age? Why must a conductor grow old and wise to perform the works of composers who died so young?
Actually interested to hear his Jeux. That’s not an easy piece to do well.
Or looked at from the other side, it's impossible to screw up.
Dear oh dear. London appearances to date have been much hyped & great photo/publicity opportunities but musically nothing special. Let's hope he matures quickly & that they're on the money in Chicago. He'll pull in the punters, of course...
Could this appointment also have to do with the Decca recording contract that Mäkelä comes with? Big orchestras get so few opportunities to record standard repertoire these days, they must all be gasping for the highly-paid recordings that Decca gives them
Decca will not be paying for any recordings. The orchestra has to raise the funds.
@@DavesClassicalGuide ahh ok... but surely decca helps with the promotion?
@@eisenaechery7591 Classical music is poison to most big record companies. They are willing to take a loss on most releases hoping to cash-in when the occasional Pavarotti or Lang Lang comes along.
It doesn't work like that, jerk.
CSO has it's own label. CSO Resound.
Judging by the TH-cam clips of his performances, it may be better to record him 'live' in the future, otherwise we may risk the chance of 'Makela degeneration' !!😂
Maybe we're heading full-speed into the age where the visual candy covers auditory mediocrity. I can hear PR saying "As long as it looks good, it's OK. People in the audience won't know the difference anyway" - a "viseance" rather than audience?
It's good to see the myths, the horrors and the cult of personality that exist in the classical music business challenged.
These people earn millions yet they're not accountable to anyone. They produce nonsense, have no idea what it takes to be in charge of big teams (and I don't just mean musical skills) and people think that it's normal. People need to wake up to reality and see how workplaces in the real world function.
I saw Makela do the Mahler 5th with Chicago and it was quite dull. I remember the finale being particularly lifeless. I really don't understand their choice.
I definitely believe San Francisco wants to expedite the appointment of a Mäkelä type who will create a new concept and image for the orchestra. Maybe they made him an offer as well?
In 20 years, will the average age of music directors be 28?
I seriously hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Seems like its the same thing across the street at the ballet. They brought in Rojas, who seems like she's only interested in bringing in young audiences, while letting everything else slide. Mere Mortals was the worst thing I've ever seen at any ballet, ever. It was more modern dance than ballet, the music was horrid (canned music with a bit of live music from a handful of performers in the pit)...but the young audiences loved it and it got a lot of press.
Salonen brought quite a few exciting new concepts to San Fr5
@@TichmanClassCologne I agree completely about Salonen. He always progresses and pushes the art form (I'm a big big fan of his).
Not happy with this choice! A friend texted me that as a Finnish-American, I must be proud to have a Finnish music director and was shocked to hear my opinion that he isn’t all that good based on recordings I’ve heard. I told my friend there are many better Finnish conductors and that I don’t really care about the ethnicity of the conductors I hear.
Maybe a young conductor has been chosen to attract young, new patrons. Makela is tall, full of dramatic gestures on the podium, a feast for the eyes. Any CSO member could conduct the orchestra as well or better than Makela. But, Makela may blossom into a fine musician.
He won't attract anyone just because they're young. That's ridiculous. He's 28. If he were a football player he would have retired already.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Edward Gardner- was very young when he started conducting 🎶
Well, drat. That means they passed over me again for that position. Sigh... What do you think his first recording with them will be? Hi, Mildred!
Something easy and unexpected, like a Mahler cycle.