My Discord: / discord My Twitter: / sackchief Editing crew - ThatsRoyo: / thatsroyo Are Dragon Quest villains boring? This is a question many have asked and today we talk about it. Hope you enjoy!
I partially agree. A lot of people can empathize with not being recognized, but jasper's actions demonstrate that he was turned by his own selfishness instead of a genuine desire to be recognized for being good.
i think 'it's about the journey, not the destination' greatly summarizes dq games, which is why the main villains themselves are whatever. In dq games, you'd typically travel around the world and see for yourself all the evil things happening because of the villain, so even though you'd typically only see them for the 1st time right before the fight, it still always feels extremely satisfying to beat them, knowing you erased the reason everything went sour in the universe.
I for one am tired of the morally grey villain. The charm of Dragon Quest lies in the sincerely straightforward story. I think the fact that there are good monsters makes the evil in the villain even more clear. He's pitying his underlings against innocent civilians in a wasteful war or conspiracy in order to forward his own egoistic goals.
Absolutely ; I don't think a villain should be necessarily relatable or that we should feel sympathetic towards them. DQ villains have always been interesting not because of their story, but because of what they put the protagonists to. They are meant to be an end goal, to be the objective that ties the whole party together. Plus, I think underlings are usually more fitted for the morally grey villain role
I'm not necessarily asking for a tragic villain who's backstory makes me sob, but I really wish the games did more with the villains. Make them more interesting, make them feel like an actual threat, rather than just some evil dude in a castle waiting for the player to show up.
Secondary antags in DQ usually end up outshining the big bads, with the exceptions of Psaro and Corvus (and personally Orgodemir, but I think the remake toned him down too much). Ladja in 5, Murdaw and Dhuran in 6, Dhoulmagus in 8, Jasper in 11. All of them have more personality, and actually invoke some emotion when fighting them beyond end-game hype.
Psaro and Corvus are the 2 TRAGIC Villains that standout and are unique in Dragon Quest which is very rare since most mainline Big Bads are Evil Villains. That said I still think Dragon Quest should still continue having Pure Evil Villains since this trope can still be entertaining and done very well especially since most modern jrpgs or any media in general nowadays are starting to have too many Sympathetic Villains or Antagonist or "relatable" villains.
Desgins besides, Mordegon is actually quite a good villain and even a change up to the usual DQ villains as much as Psaro or Corvus, the guy influence is present through the whole adventure and it turns out he's been manipulating the entire kingdom through the king and when the guy shows, he's the real deal, he knocks the hero, takes the sword and use Yggdrasil power to pull a Kefka on the whole order and to make sure he keeps the demon lord spot, he goes BY HIMSELF to destroy the Dark One body
All of this is also on top of the fact that he was a member of the last hero's party, the hero you're reincarnated from no less and whose shadow you've been living in, who betrayed that hero because he became power hungry. Is it as moving a motivation as Psaro or Corvus? No, he's not sympathetic but that's okay imo he doesn't have to be sympathetic. But he at least has some kind of motivation and history in the world which is the biggest problem with the other villains imo. It often feels like we know nothing about them, we're just a random guy stumbling into them and ruining their day.
@@crocrowpops247 Dr Snap from Joker counts too. His motivations are pretty shallow all things considered (apparently he never quite fitted in?), but his design is sick (literally. His monster appearance is ugly as sin), so it works. DQM has some pretty cool villains honestly.
@@RedOphiuchus "he doesn't have to be sympathetic" THANK 👏 YOU 👏 SO 👏 MUCH 👏 I'm not against sympathetic villains, I'm just saying we don't have enough of the "classic villain" trope nowadays because let's be honest: Nowadays they're either twist villains or no notable villain at all (I'm not against those tropes either). Now I haven't played any DQ game before Elusive Age but from what I've played, that game was meant to be authentic in gameplay, story, and design. So by that logic, wouldn't it make since to make the main antagonist... Oh I don't know... the *authentic* villain trope? I'm not saying I want a bland villain who's just there to be evil. What matters is the personality, execution, and how entertaining they are in general. And Mordegon's role in the story is one of the most evil things I've seen in media. *DQ11 SPOILERS BELOW* Mordegon possessed the King of Heliodor and manipulated practically everyone into believing that the Luminary is a force of evil because darkness cannot exist without light (pretty deep imo). This causes our hero to go on the run and recruit people who do believe in him, jumpstarting Act 1. In Act 2, he reveals himself, steals the hero's powers, destroys Yggdrasil (while killing poor Veronica in the process) and turned Erdrea into a monster infested wasteland where the sun literally doesn't shine. Our party members developed through Mordegon and his minions' antics and caused a large impact on everyone in Erdrea. That's why the final battle with Mordegon felt so satisfying to me. And yea, Sancheif did ignore Act 3. That showed a big part of Mordegon's character (which used to be Morcant *Ba dum Tss* ) but yeah overall, Mordegon really is one of my favorite villains.
Also screen presents is important for a villain take most classic Disney villains they are evil just for the sake of being evil Dragon Quest doesn't need sympathetic villains it needs a villain that has a screen presents be it funny terrifying or badass
Rhapthorne's first form is always hilarious to me he's a straight up light bulb, the heroes should've just turned him off, stuff him in his light box, then send him to the refund dimension.
@@Morgil27 Oh yeh or tht small blue horn dude. Our boi Akira has been doing this for about nearly 50 years or 45. Him and his colleagues have made thousands of characters so I'm farm from not surprised that his designs get reused no matter if it's human, anthro, alien.
I love the fact that you get Psaro in your party in the endgame. It's so cool. Not only that but the thing they did where he can actually wear cursed items without the bad side effects was also super fun. He was a great villian and a great unique and extremely powerfull party member
Zoma's one of my favorite villains in the dq series,not only was he impressed and congratulated you for defeating but before he died,he made to implant the little seed of doubt in the that even though he is gone a greater evil will arise and erdrick will long dead to do anything about it
You gotta put some more respect on Mordegon's name (spoilers for 11 incoming). In the beginning of act two we learn about the rivalry of Erdwin and Morcant and how eventually their relationship budded into a friendship. That's why it's so alarming when we learn that Morcant betrays and murders Erdrick. Morcant's suppressed feelings of rivalry and the need to be stronger than Erdwin are what Calasmos plays upon in a last ditch effort to save themselves from getting destroyed. Tim Rodgers from Action Button once said the dragon quest is a series about saving the world and hanging out with your buds. Morcant killing Erdwin is the antithesis to what Dragon Quest is all about, and in that a worthwhile villain in the series.
I actually like how the main villain is just pure evil with no redeeming qualities. The definitive battle of pure good vs pure evil is what makes every final battle in DQ so epic for me. Ganondorf in The Legend of Zelda series is like that too
I mean, they aren't really boring since they are pretty much demons trying to take over the world. Their motivations are the generic evil for the sake of it, but it does work. It is a bit repetitive though. I do strongly agree that Chorvus and Psaro are the best and most compelling villans in the francise as they are much more we'll written and significantly more purpose for their individual stories.
Is Mordegon really the final boss of DQ11? I actually liked Mordegon in both arcs (before you "beat" the game and post game). I really liked how he saw Calasmos and was like, "y'all are gonna have to deal with something worse lol" in the post game and how he completely stopped Calasmos in the "main" story
Yeah. I like DQ's unique storytelling style. Every story being its own thing with antagonists in those ones being potentially very interesting, loosely connected by the Demon King's influence.
They are pretty boring for the most part but tbh I never really played DQ for the villains. Mainly for the journey. I think the games do a good job at building up their evilness though. Throughout the game you see the evil shit they've done to people's towns, lives, and families. DQ11 especially was the best at this with Mordegon literally being the first villain in the series to ever actually "win" by taking over the world.
Nimzo is my favorite DQ final boss, I actually felt intimidated by him because of how he was portrayed in the narrative, rarely felt that with any other video game boss. It really felt hopeless, he is stronger than other demon lords and the hero (your son) is weaker than other heroes because he is a kid, i loved the entire experience. Next ones in line are Psaro and Rhapthorne, because Psaro is probably the most well written villain in any NES RPG and Rhapthorne because it was just fun having the main antagonist directly be a constant foil throughout the whole adventure, even if you don’t know that yet
I’m gonna put an honorable mention in the form of Orgodemir because unlike most villains he actually has lore behind him in the DQ7 manga because he used to be a god who watched over the night but as the years went on he became more associated with actual evil and eventually he decided humans aren’t worth keeping. Now this is just what I remember of the DQ7 manga as it’s been a few years since I read it but I do appreciate that he was given more backstory to make him more 3-Dimensional…….. can’t say the same for Nimzo because regardless of which version he’s still the worst DQ villain that it’s not even funny
I for one enjoy the designs, motivations and what not being the same every time. One of the best parts about the series is the familiarity. You always know what you're going to get, and you know it's always going to be good. It's about the journey, not the final boss.
@LycanrocStorm thats nice and all but what happens when i personally dont care about their motivations and reasons? Id much rather have a Zoma or (pre-wind waker) Ganon/Ganondorf than some final boss that is trying to morally lecture me. I no longer want to fight that boss, I just want to oppose their views and ambitions. Even if those views are, “Dont throw babies into the microwave”.
My favorite will always be the Dragonlord. I'm biased since I grew up playing Dragon Warrior over and over as a kid. He's a perfect video game villain of the era and was exactly what he needed to be for a relatively smaller game like DW. He was your target through your whole quest, you hear about and see the results of his evil actions, and when you finally reach him he tests your morality by offering you to join him. And after all that he turns into the largest, scariest monster you ever faced. He was a perfect throwback to classic fairytale villains and he was great. Sometimes less is more. I don't need all my villains to be tragic figures, relatable and misunderstood, or three dimensional in a morally grey world. Sometimes all I want is a villain that's evil and loves it, sitting on his thrown and twirling his moustache.
They are fun, the new generation obsession with the "relatable villain" or "the villain that is actually right" or "the misuderstood morally grey villain" Like people in this generation REALLY want to relate to the villains is kinda weird.
They are fun, and work for a classic good vs evil story. Relatable villains are great too because they make you think and question who's right. Both work in the right context
This, actually. I like well-developed and fleshed out villains, of course. But a villain that just wants to rock the world upside down done right is as cool. If anything, I'd like if the villains of DQ were more destructive and their presence was made more visible in the world of their respective games.
They both have their place. Every villain doesn't need to be sympathetic but there's also a middle ground between "backstory is sympathetic" and "I have no idea where this guy came from and why he wants to do this" Honestly Mordegon falls in that middle ground since we know why he's doing this and how he started down the path he's on, it was just selfish reasons.
Honestly I liked Zoma because of the "false final boss prank" with Baramos but I must agree with your point for the rest of them. Sometimes they are even overshadowed by their lackeys (yeah, i'm talking about you Nimzo/Raphtorne/Mortamor)
Let's just ignore all the backstory Arc 3 gives us and the fact that The Seer, an entity that guides MC and Erik and gives the latter one of the coolest yet tragic one-time powerups is literally Mordegon's other half who regrets his previous actions. We know his motives and there is more to his character than what we see in the first two arcs so this video only spreads disinformations.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 While Calasmos feels more like a generic doomsday alien, there is still something unique about him due to the game toying with you, it teases you about not only Mordregon but the Dark One. You think they are the same, but instead they are not. And in a second playthrough it's weirdly satisfying seeing him broken and hopeless when Mordregon destroys his meteor
At this point, I sometimes wonder if Saskchief really played DQ 11 at all. With videos like this i feel like he just watched all the cutscenes in a hurry and called it a day.
*People today* Villain who do evil because they are villain, and they are not hot: 😴 Villains who are relatable and also hot: 🥰 Villains who are evil AND hot: 😍
I don’t agree. I think DragonLord does have a backstory that they discussed in DQ Builders 1. Hargon being a sorcerer to revive Malroth is pretty neat for an NES game. Baramos had a fight with your father (a huge reason why I hate the Switch version). Zoma could have been better, but hey, it is an earlier NES game. Can’t be too hard on him. Psaro is awesome. Nimzo was meh, but in the DS version, there is insane amount of hatred that I have in Ladja. Mortamor, wanted to destroy the world, but how he did it was fantastic. He used dreams and greed to pull it off. He tortured the humans first using those methods. Also love me some Nokturnus. As for DQ7, Orgodemir defeated God. They could have done more with him, so I guess he was a little meh, but not the worst. Haven’t played 8, so can’t speak on that. I agree with Corvus for 9. And I agree with 11, Mordegon and Calasmos sucked. The saving grace was Jasper. I feel that the DQ villains, outside of Hargon, wanted the world to be ruled by monsters, which somewhat makes sense. Whereas Hargon and Malroth wanted to destroy everything, even the monsters.
I thought this was after the events of DQ2. DQB1, on the other hand, is based on if you said yes to joining the DragonLord in DQ1. But if the response would be the same, I guess I’ll allow it.
While it's true Dragon Quest Villains are relatively simplistic, the focus isn't really on them for most of the games. The games themselves are more about the Main character and the themes of family. I suppose if anything the villains at most are Catalysts for spurring the main heroes into action in order to save the world or complete some grand quest. I imagine they're kept simple and black and white relatively so that the player can focus more on the world building and the characters. The Dragon Quest series has always been a traditional series even with it's villain arch types, while not the best they do their jobs well of being villains. Villains you hate to see win, villains who are easy to understand and comprehend. I imagine Yuji Hori likes simplistic villains so the player can focus on the journey itself where the main meat of the game is. While not as memorable as Final Fantasy villains they still get the job done. So yes they can be boring and simplistic but they at least get the job done.
From playing Dragon Quest Tact and the collabs they do, I feel like the end game bosses that appeared before I played the games, hyped me up more for seeing how the story plays out. Because of Akira Toriyama's artstyle I never feel it as being repetitive or boring. Fan of both DBZ and DQ :)!
Answer from me- no. God I love them all so much. Dragon Lord / Dragon Lord’s True Form may have been one of the first plot twists in video games. Hargon and Zoma are beautiful beings. They are from different times. Significant in their own ways. 🥹
I am personally kinda split on it. On the one hand, most DQ villains (that is, the actual, endgame ones, not the penultimate ones, which tend to be more versatile) are, indeed, pretty "by the numbers". There's not all too much setting most of them apart other than very vague or inconsequential differences in the "why" they want to take over the world or whatever. And at times having the revelation of the big bad doing what they did "for the evulz" can kind of feel anticlimactic. But at the same time I feel like it works to a good strength. Maybe it's just my take on it, but because the villains are (generally) just so over the top and at times almost comically evil for literally no reason, they can write them to do some pretty ludicrous and insane things in-game and give the player the incentive to want to defeat them without remorse. While I get that people may want more depth and maybe more of the gray/grey morality rather than a black/white one, I do personally prefer villains to, at times, be just plain evil without needing to research their family history or do an essay on philosophy and ethics. As a random aside, I might just be imagining it, but I thought Mordegon in particular was evil as a result of the combination of his inherent jealousy/envy exacerbated by Calasmos'... influence or whatever the heck it was. It's been a while since I played through 11 though. On a lighter note, yeah their designs can use a bit of variety at times. Whether that's because it's Toriyama doing the artwork and all (is he still? Probably) or something on Horii's end, they do tend to look really... unoriginal. Setting aside how antithetical that is to my earlier point. And it is kind of comical how they all have some unabashedly devious-sounding floating castle lair shrouded in darkness, typically either with a pun name or containing a word or synonym of "castle", "darkness", or "evil". Tl;dr I prefer Orgodemir to Sephiroth.
I’ll admit Mordegon is let down by his design and lack of personality, but I think what sets him apart is that he is technically both the secondary antagonist, as he kills the actual main villain to take his place, and a major supporting character, as his counterpart Morcant is basically the reason the heroes found each other. A solid connection between the Hero’s party and the original party led by Erdwin. Not to mention he’s directly involved with the story of the game throughout all of the first act - pretty new and interesting concepts for a major villain imho
DQ is a series based on making the classical Fantasy cliches in a confortable and nostalgic but also pleasing way, and this reflects in how these games always have meh villains but the journeys to reach them are the memorable part, DQ's worlds are all very vivid and remarkable, and they make you care enough about them and their characters to make you want to stop the generic evil demon lord or sorscerer that wants its destruction
I do think that Mordegon (not Calasmos, who is the "darkevillord.jpg" of the game as usual) is interesting and would sit third behind Psaro and Corvus. The whole thing with him being Erdwin's "faithful" friend at first, the fact he was corrupted by Calasmos and betrayed and killed Erdwin, the fact that his good side split and became The Seer to help the Luminary fight his own evil self (despite the fact that it would also result in his vanishing), the fact that he was in the end "the lesser of two evils" (compared to Calasmos) and that he was mischievous and manipulative make him the best out of the other generic evil lords of the franchise (with Psaro and Corvus obviously coming out on top anyway, of course). He even intentionally made a villain out of Jasper by exploiting his envy for Hendrick. I think you're not giving him enough credit, he may not be the best written villain in jrpg history but he's also not the generic dark lord.
You literally HAVE to watch (or read) Dai no Daibouken. I mostly agree with you about the blandness of Dragon Quest villain, but Dai villains are the best DQ has ever offered. Believable villains, charismatic villains and in general very likeable villains that no game entry has ever offered. Try it I don't think you're gonna be disappointed
dit you just forgot that theres more to mordegon? like, how he technicaly used to be a companion of erdwin? and that a part of his good side left his body and actualy helped you in the game?
9 and 11 are the only dragon quest games Ive played, I grew up playing 9, and its definitely my favorite. Though bad villan design or not I still love 11 as well, and honestly they could very well have tied for being my favorite if not for the fact that they use deus ex machina time travel bs to stop the villan in 11. It undoes so much character growth for everyone, and I really loved what they did with the cast when they split.
tbh I like generic evil for the sake of being evil characters as long as they pull it off with style and/or make their presence felt through out the story even if you never see them until the end. I also don't mind not having to think too much about their motives, I like simple stories lol. But I will say some villains are still boring to me. The DQV and DQVII villains do not stick out in my memory at all for example. As for Mordegon, I thought the twist was that he was one of Erdwin's allies corrupted by the true big bad or something?
Ya I do not understand how he says Mordegon was simple. He was one of the more interesting. Corvas to me was more of the villiam out of no where with no real set up and has the most basic back story
11 is a prequel to DQ3 that it is also part of the tradition that most Japanese sucessful series follow, the game where it marks a new phase of the series and also tributes the past games(A few example of similiar games are Smash Ultimate, Breath Of The Wild, Fire Emblem Awakening and Mario Oddysey)
for me i like the straight forward villain and evil, and almost all of them are in dragon quest... I don't wanna feel bad about enemy that i want to cut down.
Mordegon was generic but great The fact that he won and fucked so hard the world that the protagonist travelled back in time to prevents his win made Mordegon a cool antagonist, and the fact that the post game also explores his backstory also makes him not really an amazing villain but something that works well with DQ
I want a female main villain for dq 12. Just for a little variety, you know? Same for the main heroes too. It's starting to get to the point where they look like the same guy but with different clothes and a slightly altered hairstyle. My favorite hero designs are also the more unique ones. In terms of appearance, the heroes from 4, 5 and 6 are at the top of my list.
You can make a female hero in 9. And if they made a female villain id be okay with that so long as they dont tell me that they “did it for variety”. And in Dragon Quest 10 the main villain for the 2.0 storyline is a female. In fact, the hero of that world is a female.
Would not be easier to just make the Hero have a gender swap version like some past DQ games did? And yeah a Female villain would be great, personally i would like a hot witch that can transform in a body horror monster
yes and almost all the female party members you get are blatant sex objects with 0 personality. aside from the 1 female kid, who "is actually 16 in the body of a 9 year old!". I hope no one uses that as an excuse to sexualize veronica as well. as for a hero, honestly you should choose. the hero is supposed to be you. so you should be able to change skin tone, eye colour, size, and of course gender.
Keep in mind in the true ending of IV the real villain is revealed to be Amon, who is a much more generic villain. All and all, I think this comes from the basic idea behind Dragon Quest: it's a story where you play as a hero facing a "Ma Ou" (Demon King); of course the villain is irredeemably evil, because that way you feel better in the role of the hero. Think about it: can someone be considered a hero when they kill a villain who had good motivations behind their Machiavellian plot?
I've never really minded the horns on all those Dark Lords. Let's also not forget in Builders I, The Dragonlord just wanted monsters to rule over humans as he saw fit, and even secondary villains have interesting stories as well. Like Dhoulmagus wanted a shortcut to great magic power while studying under Rylus. That led to him to discover the Godbird Sceptre, unaware of what would happen to whoever wields it. Nimzo was also a human who found the Secret of Evolution and went down the same path as Estark was. Aamon wanted to drive Psaro to madness by using his love for Rose to lose himself in the Secret of Evolution so he can seize the title of Master of Monsterkind. I still liked Mordegon I mean, I never thought he'd be possessing the King of Heliodor to be in favor of the bad tidings the Luminary would bring as The Darkspawn. I thopught we would have to convince the king those wicked rumors would never happen. I always like to try bringing my own voices ideas for each of the villains. Dragonlord's is like Palpatine, Zoma's sounds a bit like Aku from Samurai Jack, Nimzo's is like a deep sounding Patrick Star when he was a king, Orgodemir's is like Mettaton's in Undertale when his new body was unveiled, with telepathy used when in his horned self, and Corvus is like Hayden Christensen's Anakin Skywalker, with a monstrous spin on his second monster form. That's why i'm excited for the HD2D Remake of III whenever that arrives so i can master Zoma's voice there along with Baramos' too.
make a vid about your fav heroes fav villains fav mages love interest etc and I wish you made longer vids I like listening to dragon quest lore and stuff while Im working or trying to sleep
Personally, I may be biased to seeing Mordegon as a pretty good villain, not the best but he’s ok. In post game, you get enough explanation as to how he became Mordegon. I’ll try not to spoil it for the others. I think the villain in XI that deserves a little more highlight is Jasper. I hope you could highlight DQ’s secondary villains someday. I enjoy all your Dragon Quest videos, and repeat them occasionally.
Boring? Yes. However, my counter to it is that since the game doesn't put an emphasis on the villain, it is ok that they are boring. Some JRPGs make it seem like the villain is the guy we can all relate to about the wrongs of our world, and they are just so bad it ruins the game.
Honestly it’s kinda hard to find blatantly evil villains nowadays since everyone wants to stray away from the “stereotype” they create a new one themselves
What bothers me the most for Dragon quest 11's main villain is that in the final boss fight, it does not feel like THE final boss. It is the same generic battles that we've had the entire game and they do not change up the combat to make it interesting when Mordegon is in his 1st form. In Dragon Quest 12, in the main villian boss battle, they should add quick time events or some gimmick that we have not seen in the entire game to make us feel like all the characters grew and changed throughout the story pointing out they're stronger than ever and they worked together by attacking the villian one by one in a cinematic sequence. Also, at the end of the game, with the choice-based system they are adding, you could choose between joining the main villian or not. You are right with the villian not being interesting and just boring, they could add layers to the next main villian in Dragon quest 12 to add more depth to the story or a moral lesson people should learn.
Cuando empezaste a hablar sobre los distintos villanos de la serie, me puse a pensar cuáles recordaba. He jugado prácticamente todos menos el 4, y aún así reconocí a Psaro. También Corvus de DQIX, ese sí lo recuerdo. Y es justamente porque son personajes con más dimensiones que los villanos genéricos.
Literally NEVER even noticed that the villains were basically all the same until this video 🤣🤣 I guess I'm just a simpleton! But I agree bro. I 100% prefer a villain with an actual backstory and a better reasoning as to why they are evil! Awesome video!
I agree with a lot. But Mordegan worked really well as an atangonist. He had several twists to him that expanded the narrative of the game even in the opening hours of DQ 11. While his motivation wasn’t revolutionary it was his motivation and ambition that shaped the narrative and gave us the end goal for most of DQ11 but also made sure most of the cast would grow and change for the better to be strong enough to fight him. By the time I faced him for real, the party felt like they all grew into fine heroes, which is hard to make feel earned even in a straight forward narrative like DQ.
I actually believe Psaro to be rather boring. Sure he had motivations and all but when it was time for the final confrontation he lost his memories. All of his personality was just gone and he was nothing more than Malroth. Just showed up and was defeated. And I will not forgive Corvus for all this "a Celestial can not attack another Celestial" bullshit that somehow only works on the main charackter. That and he did not feel like a villain, he was literally defeated by a hug. I actually love the DQ villains mainky for their design and presentation. Even though they all have horns their design is from my point of view interesting and cool. The exception being Mordegon. His boss form kind of betrayed his whole deal. He was a mastermind magician and not some hulk with a greatsword. Similar to Mortamors second form, but he redeemed himself with this weird split up 3rd form. The dragon head-tail thingy cane also came out of nowhere without any reason or connection to whatever theme there was for him. Im actually afraid for DQ12s final boss. DQ11 felt concerningly... unispired. Mordegon and Calasmos didn't even have an original boss soundtrack! All I want is a cool desing and some vague hints about an interesting origin, I want to fill in the blanks myself.
dq villains to me are absolutely just challenges and not interesting characters at all. i get much more invested in the journey than the resolution. really really hoping they change this with 12. i want humans being terrible instead of the constant " they were secretly monsters" thing. moral ambiguity. add some spice
We don't need villains who have redemptions or complex motivations just for the sake of it. There are plenty of beloved and popular entirely evil villains, it's about their actions that differentiate them. The boring villains are the ones that are uninvolved in the plot and are just sitting at the end of their sections to be generically killed.
I feel like pure evil villains can be done with good writing. Granted typically I prefer villains with a little more depth, but I’d be lying if I said that Pure evil characters can’t fill the part as well. I’d say a good example of this is Kefka from Final Fantasy VI where the main reason he does the stuff that he does is cause he thinks that the world is one big joke and he wants to prove to people that it doesn’t matter how many times they rebuild because it’s all going to be destroyed in the end.
@@andrewcarlton6196 true - and to the actual final villain’s credit, he’s not another dark wizard demon with horns. A very different design, albeit familiar to fans of Toriyama’s other work.
@@grapes9h5 ya his look kind of creeped me out when I first saw him. Also I wpuld not say he was a villain that just showed up as he is present a few times
Calasmos is trash tho Mostly because Act 3 sucks imo, but he looks goofy, it's basically a generic alien cosplay imperfect Cell and he has almost no build up at all
Main villains yes, but DQ is all about the side stories on the way to the main villains. Having a deep or complex main villain would hurt the DQ formula as it would take away time from the side stories to develop a deep main character. Main villain exists to get the heroes moving and to be a general source of danger.
I think they keep it like that as to not change the formula from DQI-III too much. DQ always plays out very much like an Anime or manga series, lots of interesting minor arcs which gradually lead to the defeat of generic big baddy and his plan
I do think Dhoulmagus was good.... only problem is he wasn't able to go all the way like FF6 Kefka. Rhapthorne was at least a decent built up evil force of nature I do agree though as far as " horned guy " problem it's like if FF decided to do Chaos.... Chaos recolored! Chaos recolored with more shit tacked on! best horned guy was probably 7's to be honest... otherwise yes! 4 and 9's villians we're best.
I think Dragon Quest villains are fairly boring - but that it's intentional. Their thesis is that you shouldn't have to think too hard about the motivations of a villain, Dragon Quest wasn't meant to be that deep of a game most of the time. It was just meant to be fun to fight against a big bad with no real reason not to, or to second guess the quest itself. This is kind of why they're rewritten in fanon; the Dragonlord is the child of the Dragon Queen from DQ3 who blames his mother's death on Erdrick's family line, and Hargon was a man who gave in to despair which turned him into a high priest / warlock for the god of destruction Malroth.
I agree with you, but I think can also live with the classic evil villain, as long they're able to put on a good show, being a bit more creative with their concept. While I didn't like Mordregon so much at first I have to admit he has more screentime and influence over the narrative and events in the game. I liked that "Evil vs. Evil" moment for once, in the desert town, where he protected the people of an even more severe threat, that doesn't just want to rule tyranically over the people, but literally exterminate them. While not symphatethic, that least gave him some kind of notion.
I wouldn't say they're boring or generic. Just "classic-style". It's classic 80's style anime tropes remixed for each new generation. We live in an age where every other game is trying so hard to be weird and out-there, just for the sake of being different. With all that constantly floating around, sometimes going back to something "simple" and "vanilla" is nice. And that's what Dragon Quest and it's villains are for. Dragon Quest exists to be classic-styled in a world where every other series has changed so much that they're not even the same game anymore and sometimes even alienate longtime fans. Boring or otherwise, I give villains like these points for consistency.
I think I actually liked Mordegan despite his first impression of a typical horned villain, The first thing he does is destroy the world Tree and I'm sitting here like "wow well that escalated quickly"
What I've been wondering lately: How many monsters are there? I mean throughout the Dragon Quest franchise. Each game recycles some enemies but also introduces new ones. So how many monsters/enemies are out there? Is there a "mega bestiary" where you can look up every monster in every game?
God, I would _kill_ for a Dragon Quest Monsters National Dex. I do know one guy on DeviantArt who's putting together "Pokemon vs. Dragon Quest" collages, where he's putting together Pokemon and DQ monsters and bosses based on order of appearance, to see which franchise has the most creatures in it. So far, DQ has a lot more than Pokemon does at present, _and that isn't counting recolors!_
I honeslty like Mordegon more than most villains, because he does something pretty rare, which is actually getting away with his thing at the end of the first half of the game, and the entire section after the drop is great, it makes you see how bad everything had become after Mordegon did his thing. Sure, it doesn't get better after that, but it was a pretty cool concept with the absolute devastation, and seeing the part members like Sylvando actually lose hope was pretty sad. Also, I like sworded version, really fun boss and cool design for me, the concept of using every orb is cool and he has some skills that aren't seen often in DQ final bosses like his dark version of Gigaslash and A Cut Above (since most final bosses use spells or breaths instead of physical abilities).
final fantasy villains: "I'm a complex character with a sad and tragic backstory and you won't want to kill me!" "noooo" DQ villains: "I'm evil because I'm evil." "We know"
my problem with DQ villains is that they never stay powerful evil wizards, I love Dhoulmagus's design but then at the end you fight some fat guy instead I know this kind of villain is overdone but for once can the evil wizard stay the villain and not transform or change into a completely different monster dude?
I beat Orgodemir in DQ7 for the 3DS but im still not sure if theres another boss after him. No one in the game seems to care. I have all the puzzles back together. But it still feels unfinished. After 110+ hours it feels unfinished.
I'd argue that power for the sake of power is honestly a far more realistic than some convoluted backstory. Not particularly creative, but very human. Seriously, how many world leaders throughout history are just power mongering jerks who want a subserviant population and to conquer as much territory as possible? Crime organizations don't ruin society because they lost a child in some tragic accident or something, they do it for personal gain. Mordegon is a bad villain? Sure his design and backstory aren't original, but as far as actually being a competent bad guy goes he's 10/10. He goes back to good ol' Ganondorf's play of straight up winning 1/3 of the way through the story because he played the long game and got the hero to take care of his dirty work. He pretends to be a good king for 15 years, exploits the insecurities of one of the kingdom's greatest knights to corrupt him, and successfully brands the hero as an enemy of society before he can even get going. If Erik hadn't been in the nearby cell, Mordegon would have won then and there with no chance for a comeback later. After he wins, he doesn't get cocky either. He has his armies scouring the land and even afterlife trying to eliminate any surviving opposition, and he even makes a point to take out the bigger bad before he can become a threat (Calasmos kind of underwhelming villain tho). Usually stories have the villain fall because of some dumb mistake or other they made, but I can't think of one stupid thing Mordegon did. He only lost because of multiple cases of divine intervention, and was nearly even able to adapt his plans to counter time travel. Also shout out to Hadlar from Dragon Quest Adventure of Dai. It's an interesting story arc where the dark lord gets some major character development.
If they were human villains, I would agree. As monstrosities; them being pure evil feels right. Their depth comes from the way they ruined the world. I greatly prefer it over poorly designed human like villains that have more writing to them. I just beat Vesperia, and those villains were pitiful compared to DQ’s simple but good take.
I don't mind the villains in DQ at all, personally I love most of them. In a series where the primary theme is good vs evil with different execution each time, I think the villains fit better this way Not every villain has to be morally grey,l or sympathetic, DQ making its villain evil cause they want to while making them entertaining is one of the many qualities that makes it stand out as a series. As more forms of media try so hard to make the villain relatable DQ focusing it on making said villain _entertaining,_ and perceived as an actual threat. Seeing the atrocities that the villains commit in the series gives you the protagonist the motivation and reassurance that they need to be destroyed once and for all for the sake of the world. The reasons stated above are why Mordegon is one of my favorite villains in the series and even in general. He was brimming with personality and charisma compared to all the other villains in the series and you saw firsthand the most of what he capable of. It wasn't just rumours of how evil he was you saw throughout the story what he did - from manipulating the King into destroy a whole villain the hero was born in, 'killing' the hero in front of all his friends while taking his power in the process and destroying the world overtime and tormenting everyone that inhabits it. And as you go further in the story Mordegon as a villain gains more depth via The Seer as a character who turned out to be a part of Mordegon but was split off and in turn uses his powers to guide the hero out of remorse and regret for his actions. So you calling him one of the worst villains is probably the worst take I heard from you and just makes me question if you actually played DQ11.
I think it’s just the monsters and boss enemies along the way are so charming that they are out staging the final boss every time. It’s not a bad thing I mean after all I’m a big fan of the series
I'm currently playing the DQ games for the first time, and doing a marathon in release order. After 1,2 and 3, I was honestly surprised by Psaro in 4, he was actually interesting and could hold my attention. Shame 5 went right back to the 2 model.
I don't know, I feel like the morally grey villains tend to be weaker in Dragon Quest because the games really aren't about the villain or about direct conflict between them and the hero. Most DQ games are focused on adventure and episodic but thematic mini-tales, which gives the game less time to build up the villain. If you want an interesting, understandable villain like Sepheroth, you have to do what FFVII did - have Sepheroth show up all over the place giving backstory. As much as I love DQIV, that's something they kind of dropped the ball on (understandable because of the technical limitations, but still). In terms of the modern games, I think Mordegon served his purpose well, even if I don't love his design. (LIGHT SPOILERS) He does bad, evil stuff because he's powerful and power-hungry. He gets people on his side who also want power and don't care about the means. You eventually learn more about how he came to be this way, and it makes his force-of-nature-style villainy make sense. But he doesn't have to have human traumas or motivations to be a good force-of-nature villain. You just have to be a good driver of drama within the protagonist/their party.
Could be cool if in a new dragon quesyt game that isn't joker they bring back rigor mortex. I would love to see what they would do with it outside of the joker games.
You could probably say the same for most JRPG villains, really. I would stump for Orgodemir and Mordegon the most; they're definitely the least boring in terms of how they impact their respective worlds. And Rhapthorne is fairly close behind (even if I can't stand his laughable design).
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my favorite villain is Jasper, the feeling of always doing your best and never being recognized is something that a lot of people relate to
I disagree
Jasper felt like a whiner to me
Never getring recognised? He was one lf the kings greatest knights and hendrik did regocnise his abilities
He and Hendrick were given a matching set. How is that not recognition?
I partially agree. A lot of people can empathize with not being recognized, but jasper's actions demonstrate that he was turned by his own selfishness instead of a genuine desire to be recognized for being good.
@@jonathann.5754 well ofc hes whiny thats why hes a villain. villains are always entitled whiny brats, but you know... we all know people like that
i think 'it's about the journey, not the destination' greatly summarizes dq games, which is why the main villains themselves are whatever. In dq games, you'd typically travel around the world and see for yourself all the evil things happening because of the villain, so even though you'd typically only see them for the 1st time right before the fight, it still always feels extremely satisfying to beat them, knowing you erased the reason everything went sour in the universe.
I for one am tired of the morally grey villain. The charm of Dragon Quest lies in the sincerely straightforward story. I think the fact that there are good monsters makes the evil in the villain even more clear. He's pitying his underlings against innocent civilians in a wasteful war or conspiracy in order to forward his own egoistic goals.
Absolutely ; I don't think a villain should be necessarily relatable or that we should feel sympathetic towards them. DQ villains have always been interesting not because of their story, but because of what they put the protagonists to. They are meant to be an end goal, to be the objective that ties the whole party together. Plus, I think underlings are usually more fitted for the morally grey villain role
I'm not necessarily asking for a tragic villain who's backstory makes me sob, but I really wish the games did more with the villains. Make them more interesting, make them feel like an actual threat, rather than just some evil dude in a castle waiting for the player to show up.
Secondary antags in DQ usually end up outshining the big bads, with the exceptions of Psaro and Corvus (and personally Orgodemir, but I think the remake toned him down too much).
Ladja in 5, Murdaw and Dhuran in 6, Dhoulmagus in 8, Jasper in 11. All of them have more personality, and actually invoke some emotion when fighting them beyond end-game hype.
DQIX actually invert this trend, since it had King Godwin that fits the typical role to a T.
Honestly, I wish Jasper was allowed to keep his drip, instead of having to change into the dumb looking fur covered demon.
How did they tone him down? Should I just play the PSX version instead?
Psaro and Corvus are the 2 TRAGIC Villains that standout and are unique in Dragon Quest which is very rare since most mainline Big Bads are Evil Villains. That said I still think Dragon Quest should still continue having Pure Evil Villains since this trope can still be entertaining and done very well especially since most modern jrpgs or any media in general nowadays are starting to have too many Sympathetic Villains or Antagonist or "relatable" villains.
Personally I like the simplicity of the villains in dragon quest. Quite an interesting discussion you have raised sackchief. It has me thinking a lot.
Desgins besides, Mordegon is actually quite a good villain and even a change up to the usual DQ villains as much as Psaro or Corvus, the guy influence is present through the whole adventure and it turns out he's been manipulating the entire kingdom through the king and when the guy shows, he's the real deal, he knocks the hero, takes the sword and use Yggdrasil power to pull a Kefka on the whole order and to make sure he keeps the demon lord spot, he goes BY HIMSELF to destroy the Dark One body
All of this is also on top of the fact that he was a member of the last hero's party, the hero you're reincarnated from no less and whose shadow you've been living in, who betrayed that hero because he became power hungry.
Is it as moving a motivation as Psaro or Corvus? No, he's not sympathetic but that's okay imo he doesn't have to be sympathetic. But he at least has some kind of motivation and history in the world which is the biggest problem with the other villains imo. It often feels like we know nothing about them, we're just a random guy stumbling into them and ruining their day.
@@RedOphiuchus Agreed, one dimensional unsympathic villains can be great as long as theyre well done like him
@@crocrowpops247 Dr Snap from Joker counts too. His motivations are pretty shallow all things considered (apparently he never quite fitted in?), but his design is sick (literally. His monster appearance is ugly as sin), so it works.
DQM has some pretty cool villains honestly.
@@RedOphiuchus "he doesn't have to be sympathetic"
THANK 👏 YOU 👏 SO 👏 MUCH 👏
I'm not against sympathetic villains, I'm just saying we don't have enough of the "classic villain" trope nowadays because let's be honest: Nowadays they're either twist villains or no notable villain at all (I'm not against those tropes either). Now I haven't played any DQ game before Elusive Age but from what I've played, that game was meant to be authentic in gameplay, story, and design. So by that logic, wouldn't it make since to make the main antagonist... Oh I don't know... the *authentic* villain trope? I'm not saying I want a bland villain who's just there to be evil. What matters is the personality, execution, and how entertaining they are in general. And Mordegon's role in the story is one of the most evil things I've seen in media.
*DQ11 SPOILERS BELOW*
Mordegon possessed the King of Heliodor and manipulated practically everyone into believing that the Luminary is a force of evil because darkness cannot exist without light (pretty deep imo). This causes our hero to go on the run and recruit people who do believe in him, jumpstarting Act 1. In Act 2, he reveals himself, steals the hero's powers, destroys Yggdrasil (while killing poor Veronica in the process) and turned Erdrea into a monster infested wasteland where the sun literally doesn't shine. Our party members developed through Mordegon and his minions' antics and caused a large impact on everyone in Erdrea. That's why the final battle with Mordegon felt so satisfying to me. And yea, Sancheif did ignore Act 3. That showed a big part of Mordegon's character (which used to be Morcant *Ba dum Tss* ) but yeah overall, Mordegon really is one of my favorite villains.
Also screen presents is important for a villain take most classic Disney villains they are evil just for the sake of being evil Dragon Quest doesn't need sympathetic villains it needs a villain that has a screen presents be it funny terrifying or badass
Rhapthorne's first form is always hilarious to me he's a straight up light bulb, the heroes should've just turned him off, stuff him in his light box, then send him to the refund dimension.
In yet another case of Toriyama reusing designs, Rapthorne's first form recently showed up as one of the Pride Troopers in Dragon Ball Super.
@@Morgil27 Oh yeh or tht small blue horn dude.
Our boi Akira has been doing this for about nearly 50 years or 45. Him and his colleagues have made thousands of characters so I'm farm from not surprised that his designs get reused no matter if it's human, anthro, alien.
@@Morgil27 nah, I don't see it
I love the fact that you get Psaro in your party in the endgame. It's so cool. Not only that but the thing they did where he can actually wear cursed items without the bad side effects was also super fun.
He was a great villian and a great unique and extremely powerfull party member
Zoma's one of my favorite villains in the dq series,not only was he impressed and congratulated you for defeating but before he died,he made to implant the little seed of doubt in the that even though he is gone a greater evil will arise and erdrick will long dead to do anything about it
You gotta put some more respect on Mordegon's name (spoilers for 11 incoming). In the beginning of act two we learn about the rivalry of Erdwin and Morcant and how eventually their relationship budded into a friendship. That's why it's so alarming when we learn that Morcant betrays and murders Erdrick. Morcant's suppressed feelings of rivalry and the need to be stronger than Erdwin are what Calasmos plays upon in a last ditch effort to save themselves from getting destroyed. Tim Rodgers from Action Button once said the dragon quest is a series about saving the world and hanging out with your buds. Morcant killing Erdwin is the antithesis to what Dragon Quest is all about, and in that a worthwhile villain in the series.
I actually like how the main villain is just pure evil with no redeeming qualities. The definitive battle of pure good vs pure evil is what makes every final battle in DQ so epic for me. Ganondorf in The Legend of Zelda series is like that too
Excluding Wind Waker Ganondorf anyway. And we arent sure about Breath if the Wild 2 yet but hopefully he is closer to OoT or TP Ganondorf.
I mean, they aren't really boring since they are pretty much demons trying to take over the world. Their motivations are the generic evil for the sake of it, but it does work. It is a bit repetitive though.
I do strongly agree that Chorvus and Psaro are the best and most compelling villans in the francise as they are much more we'll written and significantly more purpose for their individual stories.
Is Mordegon really the final boss of DQ11? I actually liked Mordegon in both arcs (before you "beat" the game and post game). I really liked how he saw Calasmos and was like, "y'all are gonna have to deal with something worse lol" in the post game and how he completely stopped Calasmos in the "main" story
Main story Mordegon: You’ve been out played, you overgrown space cockroach.
I thought they kept them boring on purpose so they can continue to keep the games about telling the adventures, rather than the end goal or villain.
Yeah. I like DQ's unique storytelling style. Every story being its own thing with antagonists in those ones being potentially very interesting, loosely connected by the Demon King's influence.
Yeah. DQ was always more about the journey rather than the destination.
That's such stupid reasoning.
"It was shit on purpose, guys!"
I actually like the evil villains, but what the heck is this logic
They are pretty boring for the most part but tbh I never really played DQ for the villains. Mainly for the journey. I think the games do a good job at building up their evilness though. Throughout the game you see the evil shit they've done to people's towns, lives, and families.
DQ11 especially was the best at this with Mordegon literally being the first villain in the series to ever actually "win" by taking over the world.
Nimzo is my favorite DQ final boss, I actually felt intimidated by him because of how he was portrayed in the narrative, rarely felt that with any other video game boss. It really felt hopeless, he is stronger than other demon lords and the hero (your son) is weaker than other heroes because he is a kid, i loved the entire experience.
Next ones in line are Psaro and Rhapthorne, because Psaro is probably the most well written villain in any NES RPG and Rhapthorne because it was just fun having the main antagonist directly be a constant foil throughout the whole adventure, even if you don’t know that yet
Orgodemir is very cool too, because, for a time, he succeed.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 oh yeah, Orgodemir is pretty cool too, especially his design and personality
I’m gonna put an honorable mention in the form of Orgodemir because unlike most villains he actually has lore behind him in the DQ7 manga because he used to be a god who watched over the night but as the years went on he became more associated with actual evil and eventually he decided humans aren’t worth keeping. Now this is just what I remember of the DQ7 manga as it’s been a few years since I read it but I do appreciate that he was given more backstory to make him more 3-Dimensional…….. can’t say the same for Nimzo because regardless of which version he’s still the worst DQ villain that it’s not even funny
Where did you read the manga?
@@erdrickthedouchebaghero5399 I forgot
I for one enjoy the designs, motivations and what not being the same every time. One of the best parts about the series is the familiarity. You always know what you're going to get, and you know it's always going to be good.
It's about the journey, not the final boss.
@LycanrocStorm thats nice and all but what happens when i personally dont care about their motivations and reasons? Id much rather have a Zoma or (pre-wind waker) Ganon/Ganondorf than some final boss that is trying to morally lecture me. I no longer want to fight that boss, I just want to oppose their views and ambitions. Even if those views are, “Dont throw babies into the microwave”.
Its about the journey that has repetitive moments from all past games? Dq11 is straight up just a "greatest hits compilation of all past games
@@hoesmad8626 all those nods, throwbacks and Easter eggs was my favorite part of the game
@@Imorajna Its repetitive and unoriginal
My favorite will always be the Dragonlord. I'm biased since I grew up playing Dragon Warrior over and over as a kid. He's a perfect video game villain of the era and was exactly what he needed to be for a relatively smaller game like DW. He was your target through your whole quest, you hear about and see the results of his evil actions, and when you finally reach him he tests your morality by offering you to join him. And after all that he turns into the largest, scariest monster you ever faced. He was a perfect throwback to classic fairytale villains and he was great.
Sometimes less is more. I don't need all my villains to be tragic figures, relatable and misunderstood, or three dimensional in a morally grey world. Sometimes all I want is a villain that's evil and loves it, sitting on his thrown and twirling his moustache.
They are fun, the new generation obsession with the "relatable villain" or "the villain that is actually right" or "the misuderstood morally grey villain" Like people in this generation REALLY want to relate to the villains is kinda weird.
It's gotten to the point that just making an evil villain is a more subversive route 😂
They are fun, and work for a classic good vs evil story. Relatable villains are great too because they make you think and question who's right. Both work in the right context
This, actually.
I like well-developed and fleshed out villains, of course. But a villain that just wants to rock the world upside down done right is as cool.
If anything, I'd like if the villains of DQ were more destructive and their presence was made more visible in the world of their respective games.
They both have their place. Every villain doesn't need to be sympathetic but there's also a middle ground between "backstory is sympathetic" and "I have no idea where this guy came from and why he wants to do this"
Honestly Mordegon falls in that middle ground since we know why he's doing this and how he started down the path he's on, it was just selfish reasons.
@@aerth6946 Orgodemir being literally Satan and passing as God to initiate his evil plans was honestly really cool.
Honestly I liked Zoma because of the "false final boss prank" with Baramos but I must agree with your point for the rest of them. Sometimes they are even overshadowed by their lackeys (yeah, i'm talking about you Nimzo/Raphtorne/Mortamor)
They are fine as they are.
Let's just ignore all the backstory Arc 3 gives us and the fact that The Seer, an entity that guides MC and Erik and gives the latter one of the coolest yet tragic one-time powerups is literally Mordegon's other half who regrets his previous actions. We know his motives and there is more to his character than what we see in the first two arcs so this video only spreads disinformations.
That still live Calasmos to fit the bill though.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740
While Calasmos feels more like a generic doomsday alien, there is still something unique about him due to the game toying with you, it teases you about not only Mordregon but the Dark One. You think they are the same, but instead they are not. And in a second playthrough it's weirdly satisfying seeing him broken and hopeless when Mordregon destroys his meteor
At this point, I sometimes wonder if Saskchief really played DQ 11 at all. With videos like this i feel like he just watched all the cutscenes in a hurry and called it a day.
I appreciate that anyone AT ALL is making videos about Dragon Quest, but yeah this guy is pretty biased
Yeah its weird how he ignored all of that. Mordegon also literally destroying the world made him one of my favorite villains in the series.
*People today*
Villain who do evil because they are villain, and they are not hot: 😴
Villains who are relatable and also hot: 🥰
Villains who are evil AND hot: 😍
I don’t agree. I think DragonLord does have a backstory that they discussed in DQ Builders 1.
Hargon being a sorcerer to revive Malroth is pretty neat for an NES game. Baramos had a fight with your father (a huge reason why I hate the Switch version). Zoma could have been better, but hey, it is an earlier NES game. Can’t be too hard on him.
Psaro is awesome. Nimzo was meh, but in the DS version, there is insane amount of hatred that I have in Ladja.
Mortamor, wanted to destroy the world, but how he did it was fantastic. He used dreams and greed to pull it off. He tortured the humans first using those methods. Also love me some Nokturnus.
As for DQ7, Orgodemir defeated God. They could have done more with him, so I guess he was a little meh, but not the worst.
Haven’t played 8, so can’t speak on that. I agree with Corvus for 9. And I agree with 11, Mordegon and Calasmos sucked. The saving grace was Jasper.
I feel that the DQ villains, outside of Hargon, wanted the world to be ruled by monsters, which somewhat makes sense. Whereas Hargon and Malroth wanted to destroy everything, even the monsters.
In dragon quest builders 2, you can see at the end, why he wanted to destroy the World because he want to create a new World
I thought this was after the events of DQ2.
DQB1, on the other hand, is based on if you said yes to joining the DragonLord in DQ1.
But if the response would be the same, I guess I’ll allow it.
While it's true Dragon Quest Villains are relatively simplistic, the focus isn't really on them for most of the games. The games themselves are more about the Main character and the themes of family. I suppose if anything the villains at most are Catalysts for spurring the main heroes into action in order to save the world or complete some grand quest. I imagine they're kept simple and black and white relatively so that the player can focus more on the world building and the characters. The Dragon Quest series has always been a traditional series even with it's villain arch types, while not the best they do their jobs well of being villains. Villains you hate to see win, villains who are easy to understand and comprehend. I imagine Yuji Hori likes simplistic villains so the player can focus on the journey itself where the main meat of the game is. While not as memorable as Final Fantasy villains they still get the job done. So yes they can be boring and simplistic but they at least get the job done.
OMG I love the blinking avatar as the end!😻
Glad I wasn't the only one.
@@aerth6946 :D
From playing Dragon Quest Tact and the collabs they do, I feel like the end game bosses that appeared before I played the games, hyped me up more for seeing how the story plays out. Because of Akira Toriyama's artstyle I never feel it as being repetitive or boring. Fan of both DBZ and DQ :)!
ngl, DQVIII's event in Tact hyped Rhapthorne incredibly well, it genuinely gave me an incredible "we're finally at the end of the journey" feel.
Answer from me- no. God I love them all so much. Dragon Lord / Dragon Lord’s True Form may have been one of the first plot twists in video games. Hargon and Zoma are beautiful beings. They are from different times. Significant in their own ways. 🥹
Mordegon has a lot more complexity to him than you suggested in the video.
Ya I wonder if he has even played the third act?
I'm ok with typical bad guys as I care more about the adventure and the bonding of the party than the motivations of the villain
I am personally kinda split on it.
On the one hand, most DQ villains (that is, the actual, endgame ones, not the penultimate ones, which tend to be more versatile) are, indeed, pretty "by the numbers". There's not all too much setting most of them apart other than very vague or inconsequential differences in the "why" they want to take over the world or whatever. And at times having the revelation of the big bad doing what they did "for the evulz" can kind of feel anticlimactic.
But at the same time I feel like it works to a good strength. Maybe it's just my take on it, but because the villains are (generally) just so over the top and at times almost comically evil for literally no reason, they can write them to do some pretty ludicrous and insane things in-game and give the player the incentive to want to defeat them without remorse. While I get that people may want more depth and maybe more of the gray/grey morality rather than a black/white one, I do personally prefer villains to, at times, be just plain evil without needing to research their family history or do an essay on philosophy and ethics.
As a random aside, I might just be imagining it, but I thought Mordegon in particular was evil as a result of the combination of his inherent jealousy/envy exacerbated by Calasmos'... influence or whatever the heck it was. It's been a while since I played through 11 though.
On a lighter note, yeah their designs can use a bit of variety at times. Whether that's because it's Toriyama doing the artwork and all (is he still? Probably) or something on Horii's end, they do tend to look really... unoriginal. Setting aside how antithetical that is to my earlier point. And it is kind of comical how they all have some unabashedly devious-sounding floating castle lair shrouded in darkness, typically either with a pun name or containing a word or synonym of "castle", "darkness", or "evil".
Tl;dr I prefer Orgodemir to Sephiroth.
I’ll admit Mordegon is let down by his design and lack of personality, but I think what sets him apart is that he is technically both the secondary antagonist, as he kills the actual main villain to take his place, and a major supporting character, as his counterpart Morcant is basically the reason the heroes found each other. A solid connection between the Hero’s party and the original party led by Erdwin. Not to mention he’s directly involved with the story of the game throughout all of the first act - pretty new and interesting concepts for a major villain imho
I don't mind the DQ villains being evil because yes, but I do wish they had more unique designs than "alien guy with horns"
DQ is a series based on making the classical Fantasy cliches in a confortable and nostalgic but also pleasing way, and this reflects in how these games always have meh villains but the journeys to reach them are the memorable part, DQ's worlds are all very vivid and remarkable, and they make you care enough about them and their characters to make you want to stop the generic evil demon lord or sorscerer that wants its destruction
I do think that Mordegon (not Calasmos, who is the "darkevillord.jpg" of the game as usual) is interesting and would sit third behind Psaro and Corvus. The whole thing with him being Erdwin's "faithful" friend at first, the fact he was corrupted by Calasmos and betrayed and killed Erdwin, the fact that his good side split and became The Seer to help the Luminary fight his own evil self (despite the fact that it would also result in his vanishing), the fact that he was in the end "the lesser of two evils" (compared to Calasmos) and that he was mischievous and manipulative make him the best out of the other generic evil lords of the franchise (with Psaro and Corvus obviously coming out on top anyway, of course). He even intentionally made a villain out of Jasper by exploiting his envy for Hendrick. I think you're not giving him enough credit, he may not be the best written villain in jrpg history but he's also not the generic dark lord.
You literally HAVE to watch (or read) Dai no Daibouken. I mostly agree with you about the blandness of Dragon Quest villain, but Dai villains are the best DQ has ever offered. Believable villains, charismatic villains and in general very likeable villains that no game entry has ever offered. Try it I don't think you're gonna be disappointed
dit you just forgot that theres more to mordegon? like, how he technicaly used to be a companion of erdwin? and that a part of his good side left his body and actualy helped you in the game?
9 and 11 are the only dragon quest games Ive played, I grew up playing 9, and its definitely my favorite. Though bad villan design or not I still love 11 as well, and honestly they could very well have tied for being my favorite if not for the fact that they use deus ex machina time travel bs to stop the villan in 11. It undoes so much character growth for everyone, and I really loved what they did with the cast when they split.
tbh I like generic evil for the sake of being evil characters as long as they pull it off with style and/or make their presence felt through out the story even if you never see them until the end. I also don't mind not having to think too much about their motives, I like simple stories lol. But I will say some villains are still boring to me. The DQV and DQVII villains do not stick out in my memory at all for example.
As for Mordegon, I thought the twist was that he was one of Erdwin's allies corrupted by the true big bad or something?
Ya I do not understand how he says Mordegon was simple. He was one of the more interesting. Corvas to me was more of the villiam out of no where with no real set up and has the most basic back story
11 I can respect since this was basically a reboot. It was just showing new people how things are usually done in this universe.
11 isnt really a reboot though…..
11 is a prequel to DQ3 that it is also part of the tradition that most Japanese sucessful series follow, the game where it marks a new phase of the series and also tributes the past games(A few example of similiar games are Smash Ultimate, Breath Of The Wild, Fire Emblem Awakening and Mario Oddysey)
for me i like the straight forward villain and evil, and almost all of them are in dragon quest... I don't wanna feel bad about enemy that i want to cut down.
Mordegon was generic but great
The fact that he won and fucked so hard the world that the protagonist travelled back in time to prevents his win made Mordegon a cool antagonist, and the fact that the post game also explores his backstory also makes him not really an amazing villain but something that works well with DQ
Oh...I've never thought of this...good video!
I want a female main villain for dq 12. Just for a little variety, you know?
Same for the main heroes too. It's starting to get to the point where they look like the same guy but with different clothes and a slightly altered hairstyle.
My favorite hero designs are also the more unique ones. In terms of appearance, the heroes from 4, 5 and 6 are at the top of my list.
If you count spin offs, we have Magarugi or however you spell it from Caravan:Hearts. She's a pretty great villain actually.
@@shytendeakatamanoir9740 oh! I've never played the game so I didn't know that. Cool!
You can make a female hero in 9. And if they made a female villain id be okay with that so long as they dont tell me that they “did it for variety”. And in Dragon Quest 10 the main villain for the 2.0 storyline is a female. In fact, the hero of that world is a female.
Would not be easier to just make the Hero have a gender swap version like some past DQ games did?
And yeah a Female villain would be great, personally i would like a hot witch that can transform in a body horror monster
yes and almost all the female party members you get are blatant sex objects with 0 personality. aside from the 1 female kid, who "is actually 16 in the body of a 9 year old!". I hope no one uses that as an excuse to sexualize veronica as well.
as for a hero, honestly you should choose. the hero is supposed to be you. so you should be able to change skin tone, eye colour, size, and of course gender.
Keep in mind in the true ending of IV the real villain is revealed to be Amon, who is a much more generic villain.
All and all, I think this comes from the basic idea behind Dragon Quest: it's a story where you play as a hero facing a "Ma Ou" (Demon King); of course the villain is irredeemably evil, because that way you feel better in the role of the hero. Think about it: can someone be considered a hero when they kill a villain who had good motivations behind their Machiavellian plot?
DQ had never been about the narative. If you want narative then play FF. DQ has always been just simple tales and nothing more.
Personally, aside from corvus and psaro none of the final villains felt like a true villain.
I've never really minded the horns on all those Dark Lords. Let's also not forget in Builders I, The Dragonlord just wanted monsters to rule over humans as he saw fit, and even secondary villains have interesting stories as well. Like Dhoulmagus wanted a shortcut to great magic power while studying under Rylus. That led to him to discover the Godbird Sceptre, unaware of what would happen to whoever wields it. Nimzo was also a human who found the Secret of Evolution and went down the same path as Estark was. Aamon wanted to drive Psaro to madness by using his love for Rose to lose himself in the Secret of Evolution so he can seize the title of Master of Monsterkind. I still liked Mordegon I mean, I never thought he'd be possessing the King of Heliodor to be in favor of the bad tidings the Luminary would bring as The Darkspawn. I thopught we would have to convince the king those wicked rumors would never happen. I always like to try bringing my own voices ideas for each of the villains. Dragonlord's is like Palpatine, Zoma's sounds a bit like Aku from Samurai Jack, Nimzo's is like a deep sounding Patrick Star when he was a king, Orgodemir's is like Mettaton's in Undertale when his new body was unveiled, with telepathy used when in his horned self, and Corvus is like Hayden Christensen's Anakin Skywalker, with a monstrous spin on his second monster form. That's why i'm excited for the HD2D Remake of III whenever that arrives so i can master Zoma's voice there along with Baramos' too.
make a vid about your fav heroes fav villains fav mages love interest etc and I wish you made longer vids I like listening to dragon quest lore and stuff while Im working or trying to sleep
"Are Dragon Quest Villains BORING???"
No.
That fucking clip in the middle killed me
Personally, I may be biased to seeing Mordegon as a pretty good villain, not the best but he’s ok. In post game, you get enough explanation as to how he became Mordegon. I’ll try not to spoil it for the others. I think the villain in XI that deserves a little more highlight is Jasper. I hope you could highlight DQ’s secondary villains someday. I enjoy all your Dragon Quest videos, and repeat them occasionally.
Boring? Yes.
However, my counter to it is that since the game doesn't put an emphasis on the villain, it is ok that they are boring. Some JRPGs make it seem like the villain is the guy we can all relate to about the wrongs of our world, and they are just so bad it ruins the game.
dhoulmagus and marcello from 8 peak others in 8 meeh
mordegon was awesome
Honestly it’s kinda hard to find blatantly evil villains nowadays since everyone wants to stray away from the “stereotype” they create a new one themselves
What bothers me the most for Dragon quest 11's main villain is that in the final boss fight, it does not feel like THE final boss. It is the same generic battles that we've had the entire game and they do not change up the combat to make it interesting when Mordegon is in his 1st form. In Dragon Quest 12, in the main villian boss battle, they should add quick time events or some gimmick that we have not seen in the entire game to make us feel like all the characters grew and changed throughout the story pointing out they're stronger than ever and they worked together by attacking the villian one by one in a cinematic sequence. Also, at the end of the game, with the choice-based system they are adding, you could choose between joining the main villian or not. You are right with the villian not being interesting and just boring, they could add layers to the next main villian in Dragon quest 12 to add more depth to the story or a moral lesson people should learn.
Cuando empezaste a hablar sobre los distintos villanos de la serie, me puse a pensar cuáles recordaba. He jugado prácticamente todos menos el 4, y aún así reconocí a Psaro. También Corvus de DQIX, ese sí lo recuerdo. Y es justamente porque son personajes con más dimensiones que los villanos genéricos.
Literally NEVER even noticed that the villains were basically all the same until this video 🤣🤣 I guess I'm just a simpleton! But I agree bro. I 100% prefer a villain with an actual backstory and a better reasoning as to why they are evil! Awesome video!
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the vid
I agree with a lot. But Mordegan worked really well as an atangonist. He had several twists to him that expanded the narrative of the game even in the opening hours of DQ 11. While his motivation wasn’t revolutionary it was his motivation and ambition that shaped the narrative and gave us the end goal for most of DQ11 but also made sure most of the cast would grow and change for the better to be strong enough to fight him.
By the time I faced him for real, the party felt like they all grew into fine heroes, which is hard to make feel earned even in a straight forward narrative like DQ.
I agree man, the villains get boring and formulaic while lacking any originality.
I actually believe Psaro to be rather boring. Sure he had motivations and all but when it was time for the final confrontation he lost his memories. All of his personality was just gone and he was nothing more than Malroth. Just showed up and was defeated. And I will not forgive Corvus for all this "a Celestial can not attack another Celestial" bullshit that somehow only works on the main charackter. That and he did not feel like a villain, he was literally defeated by a hug.
I actually love the DQ villains mainky for their design and presentation. Even though they all have horns their design is from my point of view interesting and cool. The exception being Mordegon. His boss form kind of betrayed his whole deal. He was a mastermind magician and not some hulk with a greatsword. Similar to Mortamors second form, but he redeemed himself with this weird split up 3rd form. The dragon head-tail thingy cane also came out of nowhere without any reason or connection to whatever theme there was for him.
Im actually afraid for DQ12s final boss. DQ11 felt concerningly... unispired. Mordegon and Calasmos didn't even have an original boss soundtrack! All I want is a cool desing and some vague hints about an interesting origin, I want to fill in the blanks myself.
Psaro was my favorite villian. DQIV really surprised me, great game.
I would like to see a tier for Dragon Quest villains.
dq villains to me are absolutely just challenges and not interesting characters at all. i get much more invested in the journey than the resolution. really really hoping they change this with 12. i want humans being terrible instead of the constant " they were secretly monsters" thing. moral ambiguity. add some spice
We don't need villains who have redemptions or complex motivations just for the sake of it. There are plenty of beloved and popular entirely evil villains, it's about their actions that differentiate them. The boring villains are the ones that are uninvolved in the plot and are just sitting at the end of their sections to be generically killed.
I feel like pure evil villains can be done with good writing. Granted typically I prefer villains with a little more depth, but I’d be lying if I said that Pure evil characters can’t fill the part as well. I’d say a good example of this is Kefka from Final Fantasy VI where the main reason he does the stuff that he does is cause he thinks that the world is one big joke and he wants to prove to people that it doesn’t matter how many times they rebuild because it’s all going to be destroyed in the end.
Not that I disagree but dragon quest is know for being the most basic jrpg series so it makes sense
Lost me on the Mordegon point. I don’t want to write the spoilers but he has a tragic backstory…
He is also technically not the final villain.
@@andrewcarlton6196 true - and to the actual final villain’s credit, he’s not another dark wizard demon with horns. A very different design, albeit familiar to fans of Toriyama’s other work.
@@grapes9h5 ya his look kind of creeped me out when I first saw him. Also I wpuld not say he was a villain that just showed up as he is present a few times
Calasmos is trash tho
Mostly because Act 3 sucks imo, but he looks goofy, it's basically a generic alien cosplay imperfect Cell and he has almost no build up at all
Main villains yes, but DQ is all about the side stories on the way to the main villains. Having a deep or complex main villain would hurt the DQ formula as it would take away time from the side stories to develop a deep main character.
Main villain exists to get the heroes moving and to be a general source of danger.
Power. He wanted power. The cosmic baby thing however really is evil for evil (or wanted existence to stop existing).
I think they keep it like that as to not change the formula from DQI-III too much. DQ always plays out very much like an Anime or manga series, lots of interesting minor arcs which gradually lead to the defeat of generic big baddy and his plan
I do think Dhoulmagus was good.... only problem is he wasn't able to go all the way like FF6 Kefka.
Rhapthorne was at least a decent built up evil force of nature
I do agree though as far as " horned guy " problem
it's like if FF decided to do Chaos.... Chaos recolored! Chaos recolored with more shit tacked on!
best horned guy was probably 7's to be honest...
otherwise yes! 4 and 9's villians we're best.
Maybe boring isn't the right word. More like cliche?
lmao ikr! I thought I was missing sotNice tutorialng and lost focus for the rest of the video smh
I think Dragon Quest villains are fairly boring - but that it's intentional. Their thesis is that you shouldn't have to think too hard about the motivations of a villain, Dragon Quest wasn't meant to be that deep of a game most of the time. It was just meant to be fun to fight against a big bad with no real reason not to, or to second guess the quest itself.
This is kind of why they're rewritten in fanon; the Dragonlord is the child of the Dragon Queen from DQ3 who blames his mother's death on Erdrick's family line, and Hargon was a man who gave in to despair which turned him into a high priest / warlock for the god of destruction Malroth.
Can you tell me where you read these stories
I agree with you, but I think can also live with the classic evil villain, as long they're able to put on a good show, being a bit more creative with their concept.
While I didn't like Mordregon so much at first I have to admit he has more screentime and influence over the narrative and events in the game.
I liked that "Evil vs. Evil" moment for once, in the desert town, where he protected the people of an even more severe threat, that doesn't just want to rule tyranically over the people, but literally exterminate them. While not symphatethic, that least gave him some kind of notion.
i just skip nearly every dialog of the Villains in dq. It's always "I WILL CRUSH YOU" and then "HOW ??"
I wouldn't say they're boring or generic. Just "classic-style". It's classic 80's style anime tropes remixed for each new generation.
We live in an age where every other game is trying so hard to be weird and out-there, just for the sake of being different.
With all that constantly floating around, sometimes going back to something "simple" and "vanilla" is nice.
And that's what Dragon Quest and it's villains are for. Dragon Quest exists to be classic-styled in a world where every other series has changed so much that they're not even the same game anymore and sometimes even alienate longtime fans.
Boring or otherwise, I give villains like these points for consistency.
I think I actually liked Mordegan despite his first impression of a typical horned villain, The first thing he does is destroy the world Tree and I'm sitting here like "wow well that escalated quickly"
What I've been wondering lately:
How many monsters are there? I mean throughout the Dragon Quest franchise. Each game recycles some enemies but also introduces new ones.
So how many monsters/enemies are out there? Is there a "mega bestiary" where you can look up every monster in every game?
God, I would _kill_ for a Dragon Quest Monsters National Dex.
I do know one guy on DeviantArt who's putting together "Pokemon vs. Dragon Quest" collages, where he's putting together Pokemon and DQ monsters and bosses based on order of appearance, to see which franchise has the most creatures in it.
So far, DQ has a lot more than Pokemon does at present, _and that isn't counting recolors!_
I honeslty like Mordegon more than most villains, because he does something pretty rare, which is actually getting away with his thing at the end of the first half of the game, and the entire section after the drop is great, it makes you see how bad everything had become after Mordegon did his thing.
Sure, it doesn't get better after that, but it was a pretty cool concept with the absolute devastation, and seeing the part members like Sylvando actually lose hope was pretty sad.
Also, I like sworded version, really fun boss and cool design for me, the concept of using every orb is cool and he has some skills that aren't seen often in DQ final bosses like his dark version of Gigaslash and A Cut Above (since most final bosses use spells or breaths instead of physical abilities).
final fantasy villains: "I'm a complex character with a sad and tragic backstory and you won't want to kill me!" "noooo"
DQ villains: "I'm evil because I'm evil." "We know"
my problem with DQ villains is that they never stay powerful evil wizards, I love Dhoulmagus's design but then at the end you fight some fat guy instead
I know this kind of villain is overdone but for once can the evil wizard stay the villain and not transform or change into a completely different monster dude?
I beat Orgodemir in DQ7 for the 3DS but im still not sure if theres another boss after him. No one in the game seems to care. I have all the puzzles back together. But it still feels unfinished. After 110+ hours it feels unfinished.
I'd argue that power for the sake of power is honestly a far more realistic than some convoluted backstory. Not particularly creative, but very human. Seriously, how many world leaders throughout history are just power mongering jerks who want a subserviant population and to conquer as much territory as possible? Crime organizations don't ruin society because they lost a child in some tragic accident or something, they do it for personal gain.
Mordegon is a bad villain? Sure his design and backstory aren't original, but as far as actually being a competent bad guy goes he's 10/10. He goes back to good ol' Ganondorf's play of straight up winning 1/3 of the way through the story because he played the long game and got the hero to take care of his dirty work. He pretends to be a good king for 15 years, exploits the insecurities of one of the kingdom's greatest knights to corrupt him, and successfully brands the hero as an enemy of society before he can even get going. If Erik hadn't been in the nearby cell, Mordegon would have won then and there with no chance for a comeback later. After he wins, he doesn't get cocky either. He has his armies scouring the land and even afterlife trying to eliminate any surviving opposition, and he even makes a point to take out the bigger bad before he can become a threat (Calasmos kind of underwhelming villain tho). Usually stories have the villain fall because of some dumb mistake or other they made, but I can't think of one stupid thing Mordegon did. He only lost because of multiple cases of divine intervention, and was nearly even able to adapt his plans to counter time travel.
Also shout out to Hadlar from Dragon Quest Adventure of Dai. It's an interesting story arc where the dark lord gets some major character development.
My favourite villains are Grandmaster Nimzo, bishop ladja and Corvus.
If they were human villains, I would agree. As monstrosities; them being pure evil feels right. Their depth comes from the way they ruined the world. I greatly prefer it over poorly designed human like villains that have more writing to them. I just beat Vesperia, and those villains were pitiful compared to DQ’s simple but good take.
I don't mind the villains in DQ at all, personally I love most of them.
In a series where the primary theme is good vs evil with different execution each time, I think the villains fit better this way
Not every villain has to be morally grey,l or sympathetic, DQ making its villain evil cause they want to while making them entertaining is one of the many qualities that makes it stand out as a series. As more forms of media try so hard to make the villain relatable DQ focusing it on making said villain _entertaining,_ and perceived as an actual threat. Seeing the atrocities that the villains commit in the series gives you the protagonist the motivation and reassurance that they need to be destroyed once and for all for the sake of the world.
The reasons stated above are why Mordegon is one of my favorite villains in the series and even in general.
He was brimming with personality and charisma compared to all the other villains in the series and you saw firsthand the most of what he capable of.
It wasn't just rumours of how evil he was you saw throughout the story what he did - from manipulating the King into destroy a whole villain the hero was born in, 'killing' the hero in front of all his friends while taking his power in the process and destroying the world overtime and tormenting everyone that inhabits it.
And as you go further in the story Mordegon as a villain gains more depth via The Seer as a character who turned out to be a part of Mordegon but was split off and in turn uses his powers to guide the hero out of remorse and regret for his actions.
So you calling him one of the worst villains is probably the worst take I heard from you and just makes me question if you actually played DQ11.
I just want to know what's with all the horns.
I think it’s just the monsters and boss enemies along the way are so charming that they are out staging the final boss every time. It’s not a bad thing I mean after all I’m a big fan of the series
You can someone help me to save the girl selling peppers in dq3 because whenever I try its not working
I'm currently playing the DQ games for the first time, and doing a marathon in release order. After 1,2 and 3, I was honestly surprised by Psaro in 4, he was actually interesting and could hold my attention. Shame 5 went right back to the 2 model.
Considering that Hargon/Malroth are my favorite in the series I would consider it a compliment that 5 went back to that model
I don't know, I feel like the morally grey villains tend to be weaker in Dragon Quest because the games really aren't about the villain or about direct conflict between them and the hero. Most DQ games are focused on adventure and episodic but thematic mini-tales, which gives the game less time to build up the villain. If you want an interesting, understandable villain like Sepheroth, you have to do what FFVII did - have Sepheroth show up all over the place giving backstory. As much as I love DQIV, that's something they kind of dropped the ball on (understandable because of the technical limitations, but still).
In terms of the modern games, I think Mordegon served his purpose well, even if I don't love his design. (LIGHT SPOILERS) He does bad, evil stuff because he's powerful and power-hungry. He gets people on his side who also want power and don't care about the means. You eventually learn more about how he came to be this way, and it makes his force-of-nature-style villainy make sense. But he doesn't have to have human traumas or motivations to be a good force-of-nature villain. You just have to be a good driver of drama within the protagonist/their party.
Corvus is the greatest villain. Dq9 was my childhood
Honestly you forgot Jasper, not main bad guy but still a villain with motivations
Could be cool if in a new dragon quesyt game that isn't joker they bring back rigor mortex. I would love to see what they would do with it outside of the joker games.
They are literally that buzz light years store scene from toy story 2
If you are trying to say they are all the same just say it. You’d be wrong though.
Joke*
You could probably say the same for most JRPG villains, really.
I would stump for Orgodemir and Mordegon the most; they're definitely the least boring in terms of how they impact their respective worlds. And Rhapthorne is fairly close behind (even if I can't stand his laughable design).