Something else that makes Nadu stupid is that if it is flickered or bounced, all instances of the effect it gives are reset, even though the creatures getting the effect from Nadu are the same.
@@AshyCat a hard once per turn doesn't work with the rules as they are and it would take a massive rework of a LOT of rules to do so, potentially bricking hundreds if not thousands of cards. What would have helped is templating the card properly! Instead of giving the ability to all creatures, just have the ability itself apply to all creatures, that way it can only trigger twice no matter how many creatures you play, and you have to actually work to make it multiplicative
@@Hyenadont im curious as to why it doesnt work with the rules, idk much about the more intricacies of magic. in yugioh they put on the card "this effect can be used once per turn and only once each turn" there are rules that would stop that?
The fact this costs the same as Oko is very funny. Feels the same too. A bunch of little decisions that add up to a mistake. Too much toughness, twice per turn, doesn’t draw, lands enter untapped.. too much gas.
Yeah. Pretty sure Cephalid Breakfast has been a thing for like a decade and a half and this is the first time they have printed something that triggers off being targeted by your own abilities since.
Even with an alternate text of "Pay 6 colorless mana, draw 6 cards" it would still be wildly broken. That's with just a simple equipment of equip cost 1. Even if they replace most of the payoff on the card with "Scry 1", that becomes "Pay 6 colorless mana, Scry 6", which is bearable but dangerous. That assumes WotC has the stones to actually ERRATA a popular card rather than outright banning it, which they've so far said many times they won't do, even when the health of the format is at stake.
FYI for people in the comments: all the red decks have moved on to Harsh Mentor instead of Ignus since it is more consistent damage and hates out more than just Nadu.
@@ptodd5373 wait until you find out there is a 3 mana creature (so it can be found with chord of calling) with a 0 mana ability that can be activated at instant speed :D so you can do it on your opponents turn!
Hearing people utter those words nearly lost to time "block constructed" always brings me back to the absolute blast that was Innistrad block and the goofiness of Lorwyn block.
This is one of the few cards I've read and knew immediately how busted it was. If I was able to catch this, how did it get past R&D? I think Growth Spiral effects usually are way better than they look.
I honestly don’t think with the fire design philosophy they care about playtesting anymore. It’s been replaced with just release whatever that’s powerful so players have to buy the new set, then maybe ban an older card to simulate caring, then ban the newer card(s) when most of that card’s set has been sold anyway.
There's no more R&D / playtesting as far as finding broken cards. Now "playtesting" is just to gauge how fun the set is. Broken rares are considered lottery tickets that will sell packs.
I don't like how in LotR we got a really good new anti-creature tool in Stern Scolding and anti-card advantage tool in Orcish Bowmasters and Nadu cares about neither. It feels like we're getting weirdly templated, over-stated creatures in order to beat all of the answer cards that were created to deal with the last generation of nonsense (Stern Scolding was designed when Lurrus was legal in Modern.)
It's almost like they're printing increasingly degenerate cards to turn eternal formats into rotating ones by forcing people to buy the new stuff or get stomped!
Not only is it really strong but it's also a super long combo and it's a nightmare to keep track of on paper. This card is a mistake, not because it's too strong but because it's just the most annoying thing anyone can do in the game (and also it's really fucking strong)
@@Billchu13I don't think they've had a playtesting department for years even with all the money that Hasbro is making off them. If they do, then it's clearly inadequately staffed and/or overwhelmed by the absurd amount of constant product to miss something as egregious as this.
@@anthonydelfino6171 One trigger per creature would have made it look like just a powerful card. But wotc always goes for the custom card feel when it comes to simic. I saw Nadu play and it doesn't feel like it should belong in this game: why the fuck is your 3 drop drawing your whole deck in one turn and dropping 20 untapped lands?
Currently on a forced hiatus from the game. This card may well be the final reason I am not going back. Seriously, are they even thinking? The next logical step in this cycle of power creep are blanket disablers: Whenever something would happen from anywhere, stop that thing from happening, but only x times this round. Just so we can still have games of several turns.
Idk, Nadu is at least a 3 card combo, plenty of commanders are 2 card combo's. Prosh, and Ghave for example are like 10 different types of 2 card combo's.
I’m convinced that the twice per turn limit was intended to be across the board across all of your creatures but they bunged up the templating and made it limited to twice per creature on accident.
Yeah, they kinda missed their window to say "Whoops this upcoming card has a misprint, time for some Day 0 errata" though. I really think that's what they thought they were shipping too, but somebody said "Nah, let's not do it."
Thats how I was interpreting it for about half the video. I was waiting for him to mention some combo that involved flickering it and then he started talking about how it then draws the whole deck. Once it clicked I just went "Woah".
I've actually met a few people recently, that, for EDH, have said they refuse to play against Nadu. I can't speak to his impact in other formats though.
You can use Shuko as well as Lightning Greaves, which might give you effectively 8 0 equip in the deck.... and the shroud on your Nadu keeps it safe from removal
Wotc has been creating card effects recently, where you literally can't whiff on the effect. Like Nadu would not be a problem if it didn't put cards in your hand. I get that whiffing sucks, but anything that interacts with your library should have a null result if you get unlucky. Then broken stuff like this would be a lot less common
No, this has to stop. Making an entire secret lair for Shuko, you know it'll include another 3 bulk uncommons nobody cares about. The cash grab is getting out of control.
I play in a competitive brawl league. We play with original verions of non alchemy cards due to how direct challenges work. Nadu is still (probably) the best commander in the entire format. It's insane and something needs to be done about it. The negative perception of Nadu reaches far greater than the loud minorities of reddit or discord. It's broken even without access to Shuko
If you are a competitive ANYTHING player you should understand that metas take time to adapt to new pieces being introduced. Trying to make a call on it within weeks of access is silly. Any data coming out right now is subject to both players and deck not having time to adjust to the new threats.
@@eewweeppkk i actually do agree with your point for the most part. DC has already banned the bird and ajani, which I think that may have too hasty. My issue with Nadu is how much more powerful it is right out the gate. I think magic has had relatively early bans in the past that ended up being good in the long run (skull clamp, omnath, and oko in standard for example) and Nadu, at least for Brawl, seems to be near those levels of busted. I get that counterplay needs to develope, but do we really need to subject the format to something we know is ludicrous and might banned anyways for a larger amount of time before we actually take action? Again, speaking only for Brawl.
The convo around Nadu and pace of play has been really interesting to listen to. Having played it in commander (no local modern and no modo account) has been a similar amount of issue, all the wheel turning and people waiting for it to whiff. But it's interesting when you compare to other games like Pokémon where the game is basically solitaire (I'm aware people play Magic partially because it isn't that). Also, as for deck out of the format, the new DnT seems really fun, and the Warren Soultrader deck looks really cool. Again, haven't played, but having watched seem fun
@@timw9745 So you spend two cards and the Nadu player draws two cards? Bird might not even snuff it either, if they get a land and a protection spell off that they could tap U or G and protect it before Bolt resolves.
The problem trying to find counters to dominating strategies like Nadu is that Nadu can develop their strategy to isulate against counters and still win. And with how quickly the deck can pop off, there are few immediate answers to the strategy and even fewer consistent ones.
I swear to God if Wizards bans something other than Nadu, I will lose my mind. I loved Bridge from below, and was infinitely pissed when they banned it because of Hogaks existence.
It feels like they had the once per turn clause when it was only on nardu and two different people were like “damn this feels weak…” and changed it without consulting each other. So one made it every creature once each turn and the other made it twice each turn.
Hi Vince! I run the cEDH Discord for my city (and a few other surrounding cities as well) and we had practice for an upcoming tournament this past Tuesday. We had 1 Nadu player. While some people complain about ThOracle in cEDH, I wholeheartedly believe Nadu is worse for the same reasons you stated in your video. ThOracle will inevitably end the game, while Nadu takes 10 - 15 minute turns. Out of the 4 games we had against the Nadu player, he won 0. However, he did run down the clock and cause 2 rounds to go to time. I don't mind cool combo decks as long as they have a definitive way to win. Nadu does not, and watching the Nadu player take long turns unable to exactly say "Okay, I can win now" I think will cause some discussion in the Commander RC, especially for casual play.
Okay so the problem is that he isn't good enough for cEDH but his turns take a long time? There are dozens of casual commanders whose turns take a ridiculous amount of time. My friends and I did a $50 budget challenge recently and one player built an Alaundo deck that takes 10 minute turns on EVERYBODY'S turn. This play pattern has existed for years alongside much worse play patterns. The issue with Nadu is blown way out of proportion - they are not the strongest card to be released and they are not the most annoying card to be released. If the RC makes a ruling on it I couldn't do anything but shake my head at how fragile the playerbase is.
@eewweeppkk fragile? I mean, you kind of displayed that yourself with this comment, but sure. No, the problem is his play patterns are repetitive and not enjoyable being the one (or ones) across from it. Especially in a competitive format like Modern, the time in rounds are there for a reason, and Nadu abusing almost all of it is not conducive for a fun, enjoyable environment.
@@DGDevastation No need to take it personally, buddy. Once gain - there are dozens of commanders that have repetitive play patterns. There are dozens of commanders that are more powerful than Nadu. The meta game hasn't even had a chance to adjust. Anyone calling for a ban is doing so purely based on emotion and with disregard to the rest of the cards that have been left untouched for years. I don't know if it should get booted out of modern - I'm saying commander because you brought up cEDH. "He's not fun" is a laughable point. Neither is Sen Triplets or Zo-Zu.
I’ve been playing a CEDH Nadu list recently and have gotten insanely quick with the deck because I made a custom mat. Has two vertical bars on it and in the three columns I have “Two triggers,” “One trigger,” and “Done.” Makes it clean, easy to process for everyone, just good all around. And people playing against it? Honestly counter the first Nadu cast, or counter/destroy the Shuko, Lightning Greaves, and Umbral Mantle. Killing the equipment will go a LONG way as recursion isn’t really much of a thing in the Nadu lists being played aside Endurance.
Even though I clicked on this video and knew this card was problematic, my mind still inserted "of a spell or ability *an opponent controls*" into the text to make it make sense.
I put Nadu into a Grolnok deck I just made in Commander (and pulled from MH3 for Amphibian Downpour specifically) and yeah, yeah even with a deck that isn't meant to abuse it it seemed powerful.
Nope. You sac targeting, resolve the trigger, and then before resolving the first ability, you can sac and target again - getting around the Shroud preventing you. It's less than ideal, as it's very "all in" - but it plays into the gameplan - and ultimately is more used to protect the combo enabler of Nadu with one sac, enabling the ability to equip to the rest of your board. It's very, very good.
A hard counter to Nadu is ironically another Kamigawa card, side in Horobi, Death's Wail but they could blow it up with their targeted protection spells so it's sadly not really lol
Remember when Wild Nacatl and Kird ape were busted? Kinda miss those days. I feel like the run of cards from around Lorwyn/alara to the first innistrad were all a great level of power, Mirrodon included, even if it was a tad pushed. There was a great power balance then. Idk exactly when it fell off, but I feel like that 3-6 year run of MTG was some of the best I personally got to play in.
Commander player here. I feel like Nadu is the best advocate yet for the return of the "banned as commander" rule. I feel like he's perfectly fine (in edh) in the 99. But as a commander, he's too cheap, too available, and just too ever-present of a threat. Just my two cents though. Also, yeah, ban Shuko for the non edh homies.
Boy do I wish banned as commander would come back. There's a lot of cards that fit this. Rofellos in the zone? 2 mana dork that just makes obscene amounts of mana with no effort. Rofellos in the deck? A strong dork with 1 toughness that crumbles like anything else. Still super strong but it dies to practically anything and isn't terribly likely to come back in a mono green deck. It's only a problem as a commander because you drop it turn 2 every single game and get to recast it later when its even more effective.
Banning Shaku does nothing because you now have to risk banning any card that gives your free target triggers repeatedly which there are plenty of. Shaku isn't the issue and its pretty clear it's not the issue. Even if you don't want to ban Nadu there's 3 or 4 other cards that are much more sane bans because they're cards that are just issues even outside this deck specifically.
@@Shmackle123 You aim too low! Wait for Jeweled Lotus + Land into Birb; then they can hold up Safekeeping or Snakeskin Veil or something similar so he doesn't die to removal (and you gave them cards by trying).
yeah my light paws deck can win by turn 4 and nadu just beats the pants off it and i cant even target it or it gets more triggers and prickly bill just makes it go off like crazy
Yeah this card is just stupid especially as commander. It really should have been nerfed to at least "once per creature, lands enter tapped". Even then it is still great especially on instant speed effects during other turns. Another possible nerf would to make a land centric card where instead of add to hand you scry non-lands
It's not hard to beat at all in my experience 1v1. I play many Orzhov / Mardu and the bird takes an absolute pummeling. Mt most recent game Shadrix vs Nadir they wiffed a few times and just threw to my board state and removal
@@iankane3732 you’re not going to be able to convince me it isn’t powerful. Bonkers artifacts that go in any color deck can be quite problematic and doesn’t bode well for future design
There have been many broken cards in recent times but this one, especially in Brawl, is the closest thing to toddler fanning all of the cards from their deck on to the table because they haven't developed mentally enough to understand the rules of the game. This is a caricature of a magic card. Does anyone else think that Wizards thinking being a pro player is appropriate credentials to design a magic set has been a disaster for the game (among many other disasters)?
I could see a resurgence of sideboard all-star Suppression Field to punish nadu decks, alongside Tunnel Ignus But that makes me wonder: what do other colors have to deal with Nadu trying to go off?
I could see this getting an errata too. I feel like the thought was you could only get two triggers from Nadu effect period. Not two each creature. That dramatically checks the power of this card, but leaves it useful.
This card isn’t going anywhere as long as Wizards continues to print cards that disrupt the status quo of the meta. Nadu is a hot topic, it’s brining a lot of attention to the format, and causing players to do what they’ve always done; adapt. This deck is not invincible, and banning Nadu would be a serious overreaction
I cannot get over the fact that if they had made Nadu's ability only pop on spells or abilities opponent's control it would immediately go from broken to just pretty good.
It should have been a twice per turn ability on JUST Nadu, with a classic explore text of draw and then you may put a land onto the battlefield from your hand. that ways the normal draw combo punishers would still need to at least be dealt with first before comboing off(which is not difficult for white in modern+ it has loads of kill spells) and if you actually want to combo off you'd have to play GWU with a heavy emphasis on flicker effects (flicker makes it count as a new object, so the ability's trigger count resets), and when played otherwise would only end up with a normal amount of value instead of draw your whole deck and dump all lands from it untapped onto the battlefield. Also, obviously the damn birb body should've been 3/3 or 2/4. How the fuck did WOTC approve this card. this is even worse than writhing chrysalis.
What I'm surprised by is that watching these Nadu decks, no one is playing things like Mutavault, Blinkmoth and Inkmoth nexus. They're a free creature essentially when you start to combo off as since the land comes into play untapped, you can just tap them for mana, use that mana to activate the ability and then just shove your shuko onto them to get two more draws. I'm not sure if that's the best line, but it feels like it would be better then filling your deck with just a ton of creatures and hoping for the best as the creature you're playing is basically free with the Nadu trigger and doesn't really impact mana in the deck either.
I'm still trying to put together a psychic frog list that hits every button for me, tempo is definitely the way to go, but there's something about madness or cookbook that makes me think there's something more to the lil' croaker
I have been playing a pretty fun dreamtide whale simic deck that uses cards like ledger shredder and dragonsgaurd elite to stack counters then blue draw and removal to trigger the abilities and its been pretty fun not the most powerful sure but fun to watch the numbers skyrocket when you play a ornery tumblewagg or smth
Lightning greaves make whatever they are equipped to untargetable. So if you only had 1 creature you can only equip once then they can't be targeted for the 2nd trigger.
I just hope they don't ban The One Ring because that will lead to a bunch of dumb clickbait articles and "thinkpieces" where people talk half-ass about LotR lore
Just why does it work off your own creatures. It triggering only twice each turn, lands entering untapped, resetting when they are blinked is all mad but if you couldn't trigger it yourself its not a combo engine it just a strange protection piece, like I originally thought it was till someone not dyslexic read the card for me😅
For having played it on paper exclusively, it really isn’t long to resolve it lol. You can go through the motions pretty quickly and cleanely as long as you're clear about what you're doing. Past a certain point people scoop because it becomes deterministic, especially if you cast a second nantuko. Mtgo is a clicking nightmare and no shortcuts can be offered to make it faster
As someone who has played a lot of yawg and now Nadu on mtgo, its not that bad. As long as you set up your auto yields for each trigger then you can execute it pretty quickly. I haven't had any problems with going to time.
What do you think about the Wheel of Potential drawing infinite cards for free (just casting the spell), because of the rulesinteraction (you can declare x to be 'what ever you want' and then just dont pay the energy, because its a 'may')? :-)
My theory is that Nadu originated as an idea with that "Twice each turn" clause. Once each turn effects have existed for a long time, and upping that by exactly one is definitely a modern horizons thing to do. However, instead of giving it interesting mechanics on top of that, they just gave it the Simic wombo combo of card advantage and land ramp.
They put together twice per turn, a Kira Great Glass Spinner effect, swapped out protection for a generic simic beneficial effect and showed it to a bunch of playtesters who never heard of the Legacy format.
the time thing seems like a possible legit complaint for modo, but people choose to not concede. In paper people will concede because its the same with the druid combo deck. its not even going faster than turn 3 so I don't see it being banned tbh
I still dont understand why its "twice per turn" and not "once per turn", you know given that its given to each creature and is easily resetable as flickering the nadu resets all creatures.
There are so many little things with nadu that could've been tweaked to dial it down and they just didn't. Basic lands, enter tapped, just give nadu the ability, 2 toughness, nonlegendary, etc
About roman numerals. Romans had fractional ways to measure, which sadly were based on 1/12 or a uncia (meaning 'ounce'). Many of the following names are based on how the fractions reduced: sextan, quadrans, triens are 1/6, 1/4 and 1/3 respectively. So 6/12 or 1/2 is a semis. I don’t know if you can say “II S” or how to properly express 2.5. Clearly uncia were used for volumes/mass/lengths and maybe not integrated in any other way? (I’m not a roman scholar, just doing some light searching)
You seem to have missed the entire video explaining how it very easily becomes a deterministic combo - where if the library was infinitely large, thanks to Nantuko, it would go infinite. But go off, king. 🤣
7:30 "A week before would be inresposable"😅 Meanwhile - I think - in YGO there will a important set release a few days before a tournament that may or my not contain relevant cards 🔥
its kind of hard to argue that its not time to start restricting cards in non-vintage formats. The restriction of only one in the deck (or at least "cant be cast if you control a permanent named The One Ring" or something) should have been printed on The One Ring, but alas..
I like the closing statements here a lot. The idea of modern growing into a bit of a matchup-based rock paper scissor top set of decks could be fun, as long as they dont STAY the top decks, and things work around it. Let the deck be around for a cluple month so we can see kf its as unstoppable as we think ...but no longer.
I still remember back when during my youth, the crazy (at the time) stuff rocking the boat out of tempest block. Exodus was considered the most wild set at the time, with stuff like Recurring nightmare, hatred, mind over matter. Then Urza Block hit and we all lost our damn minds (though as a kid it felt fun to mail banned cards to wotc in exchange for boosters). But stuff like ho-boy-gaak and "Nah-dude" Nadu... my middle school self could have never predicted this kind of BS lol
Have you considered running Suppression Field in the sideboard of DnT? I know it taxes Aether Vial, but it should put a pretty hard stop on the bird. Shuko now equips for 2 mana. The Kor has to pay 2 to activate its ability. Even their planeswalkers will have a 2 mana tax.
If it was just a flying 3/4 for 3 mana (with no downside) it would already be too good. The fact it gives its ability to ALL your creatures is ridiculous. I'd rather this get banned than cards that are actually fair outside of this combo. Clearly a mistake.
What I do like is that this bird made a few trash cards from earlier magic relevant and valuable. I always want to see that moving forward. Yesterday's trash, today's treasure.
I did not even clock that it's a 3/4 for 3. My eyes got big with worry seeing the lands come in untapped part, but that rate is absurd to me. It is pretty neat that it gets around Sheholdred tho tbh, but I see no world where this deck lives. Just way too slow and not fun to play against or watch.
I don't think it takes too long to resolve in paper. "I will target these 3 creatures two times each, that is 6 triggers." Opponent goes "okay". And you start flipping over cards. Lands go into the battlefield, the rest you leave revealed on the table for your opponent to see, so they can note them down if they want. You can short cut a lot more in paper, and don't have to click each creature you target. It also likely wins the game. Unlike something like top, where you might check again and again every turn of the game, and have a difficult decision every time you check.
i wish they at least made the lands enter tapped it would help prevent those nadu turns where they start with nothing but a shuko, then go nadu and just draw their whole deck instantly
No the bird is just broken with things like landfall period. Bristly Bill, Roaring Earth, Scute Swarm and Springheart Nantuko. This thing can just keep generating tokens with each land drop from the bird. Or mana with Lotus Cobra. Who needs a 0 equip card. Also given that this triggers off any spell cast by your opponent that targets to remove. You can get your card and use it to counter that spell. Outside of a board wipe this bird will be hard for decks to deal with. It's ability should have been twice overall instead of twice per creature that can refresh with a flicker.
I think I know the answer as Tunnel Ignus has only 1 printing and is only 1usd by TCG. Does Tunnel Ignus see any other play? We shouldnt have niche cards in the sideboard to solve 1 (ONE) specific problem card: Nadu.
Run Afoul is probably way too narrow for sideboards, but it is a 1-mana, instant-speed, non-targetting way to get Nadu off the board (assuming there's no Teferi/OneRing protections).
Nadus last sentence should have been outside the quotation marks. He would still be a really playable creature in many formats, even commander. Now, we have a yugioh-card and "soft and hard once per turn" got hold in magic. And soft / hard once per turn-things are one of the worst aspects of ygo and any card game for that matter, as it is an emergency break for an already broken game. It has no place in magic.
If Shuko gets banned wouldn't people just play Lightning Greaves? I get 2 Mana is way more than 1, but if the combo is good enough it wouldn't matter much.
My opponent played it in Amulet Titan at my lgs. It was gross. It got him 6 more cards before I could do anything, then the next turn killed me with two hasted Titans one equipped with Shuko to get me exactly at 17. He even ran the One Ring, it was absurdly busted.
I love the new bolt lands in mtg. Its lands with almost no downsides besides not being basics. Paying 3 life for a land to have a castable ability? That's a great deal to always draw a cast spell.
As a cEDH player with Nadu in the 99: Not being able to quickly take your turn is a Pilot issue. You should know what your cards do, and what your plan of action will do. Have a good way to measure your triggers, and the appropriate amount of tokens/etc for the actions you want to be taking. small edit: not every card translates to MTGO well, as well. Creature combo decks are definitely in this category, as they require many actions. I concede the point that this is better in Paper.
Thoracle doesn't even need you to be empty! If you have enough blue creatures you can always just win a little bit earlier, though in practice it doesn't really matter.
I think it may get a commander ban…I’ve seen it in “casual” games and it’s not pretty. If you are running dimir then there are 2 cards I know of to mess with it. One called horobi and one called dismiss into dreams.
There is no greater sign of power creep than a bird that can't be bolted.
You can even bolt your own bird to draw a card.
My brother in God, what has this world come to
These wise words can only come from a seasoned master sage.
Dies to removed lol
Just wait for them to target nadu themselves once or twice and have more than one removal spell in your deck. He is not that crazy
Something else that makes Nadu stupid is that if it is flickered or bounced, all instances of the effect it gives are reset, even though the creatures getting the effect from Nadu are the same.
Maybe make it perpetual
@@RollingCalf paper magic doesn't have perpetual, this is an irl set, not an arena exclusive
@@Hyenadont they gonna have to take a page from yugioh and start doing "hard" once per turns. or in this case twice per turn.
@@AshyCat a hard once per turn doesn't work with the rules as they are and it would take a massive rework of a LOT of rules to do so, potentially bricking hundreds if not thousands of cards.
What would have helped is templating the card properly! Instead of giving the ability to all creatures, just have the ability itself apply to all creatures, that way it can only trigger twice no matter how many creatures you play, and you have to actually work to make it multiplicative
@@Hyenadont im curious as to why it doesnt work with the rules, idk much about the more intricacies of magic. in yugioh they put on the card "this effect can be used once per turn and only once each turn" there are rules that would stop that?
The fact this costs the same as Oko is very funny. Feels the same too. A bunch of little decisions that add up to a mistake. Too much toughness, twice per turn, doesn’t draw, lands enter untapped.. too much gas.
It costs as much as Uro. What is with the 1UG mana cost that results in broken af Simic mythics?
Rogue Refiner was also a three mana Simic card that also got banned in Standard.
Remember the old Oko line, "We never thought players would target yheir own cards!"
@@danw.1250 I 'member!
@@notreallyhere67it's fine, this one is just a rare, next time it will be an uncommon.
/s
It’s wild they printed Nadu like this when they knew triggering off of your own abilities was bad in 2013 when they made Heroic.
Yeah. Pretty sure Cephalid Breakfast has been a thing for like a decade and a half and this is the first time they have printed something that triggers off being targeted by your own abilities since.
Even with an alternate text of "Pay 6 colorless mana, draw 6 cards" it would still be wildly broken. That's with just a simple equipment of equip cost 1. Even if they replace most of the payoff on the card with "Scry 1", that becomes "Pay 6 colorless mana, Scry 6", which is bearable but dangerous. That assumes WotC has the stones to actually ERRATA a popular card rather than outright banning it, which they've so far said many times they won't do, even when the health of the format is at stake.
"But maybe it'll be fine now!"
And if the rumours for Bloomburrow are true they're bringing back Heroic too xD
FYI for people in the comments: all the red decks have moved on to Harsh Mentor instead of Ignus since it is more consistent damage and hates out more than just Nadu.
But Nadu is a triggered ability not a activated ability. How would mentor counter Nadu?
Activating shuko or whatever else is activated to trigger Nadu would do 2 damage.
@youtubetrollking1880 oh ya I wasn't thinking about that side of the combo. They should really ban the equipment.
@@ptodd5373 wait until you find out there is a 3 mana creature (so it can be found with chord of calling) with a 0 mana ability that can be activated at instant speed :D so you can do it on your opponents turn!
@@ptodd5373 banning the enabler is a bad idea because it limits what wizards can print in the future
Hearing people utter those words nearly lost to time "block constructed" always brings me back to the absolute blast that was Innistrad block and the goofiness of Lorwyn block.
I won a Lorwyn/Shadowmoore standard FNM tournament way back in the day and it was such a blast. I still have that Faerie decklist.
This is one of the few cards I've read and knew immediately how busted it was. If I was able to catch this, how did it get past R&D? I think Growth Spiral effects usually are way better than they look.
They release too many cards to properly playtest
I honestly don’t think with the fire design philosophy they care about playtesting anymore. It’s been replaced with just release whatever that’s powerful so players have to buy the new set, then maybe ban an older card to simulate caring, then ban the newer card(s) when most of that card’s set has been sold anyway.
There's no more R&D / playtesting as far as finding broken cards. Now "playtesting" is just to gauge how fun the set is. Broken rares are considered lottery tickets that will sell packs.
I don't like how in LotR we got a really good new anti-creature tool in Stern Scolding and anti-card advantage tool in Orcish Bowmasters and Nadu cares about neither. It feels like we're getting weirdly templated, over-stated creatures in order to beat all of the answer cards that were created to deal with the last generation of nonsense (Stern Scolding was designed when Lurrus was legal in Modern.)
It's almost like they're printing increasingly degenerate cards to turn eternal formats into rotating ones by forcing people to buy the new stuff or get stomped!
Not only is it really strong but it's also a super long combo and it's a nightmare to keep track of on paper. This card is a mistake, not because it's too strong but because it's just the most annoying thing anyone can do in the game (and also it's really fucking strong)
Ima make a deck that includes being the monarch, night/day cycle, dungeons, dice rolling, and any other obnoxious shit i can find...
don't forget stickers and cards like scrambleverse!
Isn't that the reason they banned Second Sunrise? Not because of power level, but because the turns took forever?
@@sortasurvival5482 - don't forget coin flipping
Whose idea was it to have it trigger twice? Is this a skull clamp situation?
As though having it only trigger once was entirely too weak so you had to let the simic deck trigger on every creature twice...
@anthonydelfino6171 did they playtest this at all lol
@@Billchu13I don't think they've had a playtesting department for years even with all the money that Hasbro is making off them. If they do, then it's clearly inadequately staffed and/or overwhelmed by the absurd amount of constant product to miss something as egregious as this.
@@anthonydelfino6171 One trigger per creature would have made it look like just a powerful card. But wotc always goes for the custom card feel when it comes to simic. I saw Nadu play and it doesn't feel like it should belong in this game: why the fuck is your 3 drop drawing your whole deck in one turn and dropping 20 untapped lands?
Bird is the word and I’m like “Nah, dude.”
We have gone past Commanders that are both the setup and the payoff and now we just have The Payoff™ (to playing the game in any way).
New Simic templating:
1UG - Legendary Creature - Type.
Keyword. Keyword.
Whenever you Unga, Bunga.
(1) - Unga.
3/4
@@51gunner One of the best comments I've read in this year. My god HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH
Currently on a forced hiatus from the game. This card may well be the final reason I am not going back. Seriously, are they even thinking? The next logical step in this cycle of power creep are blanket disablers: Whenever something would happen from anywhere, stop that thing from happening, but only x times this round. Just so we can still have games of several turns.
Idk, Nadu is at least a 3 card combo, plenty of commanders are 2 card combo's. Prosh, and Ghave for example are like 10 different types of 2 card combo's.
@@atk9989Niv Mizzet can freaking kill off of a single enchantment, so you do have a point
I’m convinced that the twice per turn limit was intended to be across the board across all of your creatures but they bunged up the templating and made it limited to twice per creature on accident.
I'll never understand why he doesn't just have the ability instead of granting it to other creatures
Yeah, they kinda missed their window to say "Whoops this upcoming card has a misprint, time for some Day 0 errata" though. I really think that's what they thought they were shipping too, but somebody said "Nah, let's not do it."
Thats how I was interpreting it for about half the video. I was waiting for him to mention some combo that involved flickering it and then he started talking about how it then draws the whole deck. Once it clicked I just went "Woah".
I 100% interpreted the card that way the first couple times I read it. The sad part is, I don't think making that change would be enough anyway.
I agree with @@Snow_Fire_Flame . They would have said something by now if this was a straight up mistake
I've actually met a few people recently, that, for EDH, have said they refuse to play against Nadu. I can't speak to his impact in other formats though.
in arena brawl, if I queue into nadu, I concede before mulligan, not worth my time
@@Arzheu Yeah, I suspected he was just as bad in other formats too.
CEDH is so bad that if they cry about this then it shows that cEDH is even a bigger joke
Classic commander mindset
@@Higley1234classic dockside player mindset
You can use Shuko as well as Lightning Greaves, which might give you effectively 8 0 equip in the deck.... and the shroud on your Nadu keeps it safe from removal
Wotc has been creating card effects recently, where you literally can't whiff on the effect. Like Nadu would not be a problem if it didn't put cards in your hand. I get that whiffing sucks, but anything that interacts with your library should have a null result if you get unlucky. Then broken stuff like this would be a lot less common
"the paint drying is also trying to kill you" :D
it's lead paint.... it'll kill you. eventually....
or they could print shuko in the next secret lair $$$
No, this has to stop. Making an entire secret lair for Shuko, you know it'll include another 3 bulk uncommons nobody cares about. The cash grab is getting out of control.
I play in a competitive brawl league. We play with original verions of non alchemy cards due to how direct challenges work. Nadu is still (probably) the best commander in the entire format. It's insane and something needs to be done about it. The negative perception of Nadu reaches far greater than the loud minorities of reddit or discord. It's broken even without access to Shuko
I have been using Sorin in the Brawl format and I have faced Nadu four times now. Have yet to lose to them! Could just be luck, I guess!
If you are a competitive ANYTHING player you should understand that metas take time to adapt to new pieces being introduced. Trying to make a call on it within weeks of access is silly. Any data coming out right now is subject to both players and deck not having time to adjust to the new threats.
@@eewweeppkk i actually do agree with your point for the most part. DC has already banned the bird and ajani, which I think that may have too hasty. My issue with Nadu is how much more powerful it is right out the gate. I think magic has had relatively early bans in the past that ended up being good in the long run (skull clamp, omnath, and oko in standard for example) and Nadu, at least for Brawl, seems to be near those levels of busted. I get that counterplay needs to develope, but do we really need to subject the format to something we know is ludicrous and might banned anyways for a larger amount of time before we actually take action? Again, speaking only for Brawl.
@@_DavidLeBlancjust because you think you’re the greatest at mtg doesn’t mean the obviously OP bird doesn’t need a ban
brawl isnt competitive sorry cuh
Damn we posted the same vid at around the same time. Great minds think alike lol
It's so cool seeing other people I watch in the same comment section, it brings me joy like nothing else
The convo around Nadu and pace of play has been really interesting to listen to. Having played it in commander (no local modern and no modo account) has been a similar amount of issue, all the wheel turning and people waiting for it to whiff. But it's interesting when you compare to other games like Pokémon where the game is basically solitaire (I'm aware people play Magic partially because it isn't that).
Also, as for deck out of the format, the new DnT seems really fun, and the Warren Soultrader deck looks really cool. Again, haven't played, but having watched seem fun
As everyone knows, you bolt the bird.
Oh, wait.
Bolt and gutshot?
@@timw9745 So you spend two cards and the Nadu player draws two cards? Bird might not even snuff it either, if they get a land and a protection spell off that they could tap U or G and protect it before Bolt resolves.
@@51gunner it was a joke..
Now you Fanged Flames or some other 4 damage 2 drop or in one card that costs 1 red if your foe has a multicolor card like Nadu
Just evoke Fury, duh.
This card single handily made a bottom of the barrel equipment raise in price to 25 or over. Really says a lot of how busted this is.
The problem trying to find counters to dominating strategies like Nadu is that Nadu can develop their strategy to isulate against counters and still win. And with how quickly the deck can pop off, there are few immediate answers to the strategy and even fewer consistent ones.
I swear to God if Wizards bans something other than Nadu, I will lose my mind. I loved Bridge from below, and was infinitely pissed when they banned it because of Hogaks existence.
It feels like they had the once per turn clause when it was only on nardu and two different people were like “damn this feels weak…” and changed it without consulting each other. So one made it every creature once each turn and the other made it twice each turn.
Hi Vince!
I run the cEDH Discord for my city (and a few other surrounding cities as well) and we had practice for an upcoming tournament this past Tuesday. We had 1 Nadu player. While some people complain about ThOracle in cEDH, I wholeheartedly believe Nadu is worse for the same reasons you stated in your video. ThOracle will inevitably end the game, while Nadu takes 10 - 15 minute turns. Out of the 4 games we had against the Nadu player, he won 0. However, he did run down the clock and cause 2 rounds to go to time. I don't mind cool combo decks as long as they have a definitive way to win. Nadu does not, and watching the Nadu player take long turns unable to exactly say "Okay, I can win now" I think will cause some discussion in the Commander RC, especially for casual play.
Okay so the problem is that he isn't good enough for cEDH but his turns take a long time? There are dozens of casual commanders whose turns take a ridiculous amount of time. My friends and I did a $50 budget challenge recently and one player built an Alaundo deck that takes 10 minute turns on EVERYBODY'S turn. This play pattern has existed for years alongside much worse play patterns. The issue with Nadu is blown way out of proportion - they are not the strongest card to be released and they are not the most annoying card to be released. If the RC makes a ruling on it I couldn't do anything but shake my head at how fragile the playerbase is.
@eewweeppkk fragile? I mean, you kind of displayed that yourself with this comment, but sure. No, the problem is his play patterns are repetitive and not enjoyable being the one (or ones) across from it. Especially in a competitive format like Modern, the time in rounds are there for a reason, and Nadu abusing almost all of it is not conducive for a fun, enjoyable environment.
@@DGDevastation No need to take it personally, buddy. Once gain - there are dozens of commanders that have repetitive play patterns. There are dozens of commanders that are more powerful than Nadu. The meta game hasn't even had a chance to adjust. Anyone calling for a ban is doing so purely based on emotion and with disregard to the rest of the cards that have been left untouched for years. I don't know if it should get booted out of modern - I'm saying commander because you brought up cEDH.
"He's not fun" is a laughable point. Neither is Sen Triplets or Zo-Zu.
I don't know why, every nadu player I meet, in "CASUAL" edh, always end out solo win at turn 3, and taking 20 minutes++ for waiting him done...
I’ve been playing a CEDH Nadu list recently and have gotten insanely quick with the deck because I made a custom mat. Has two vertical bars on it and in the three columns I have “Two triggers,” “One trigger,” and “Done.” Makes it clean, easy to process for everyone, just good all around. And people playing against it? Honestly counter the first Nadu cast, or counter/destroy the Shuko, Lightning Greaves, and Umbral Mantle. Killing the equipment will go a LONG way as recursion isn’t really much of a thing in the Nadu lists being played aside Endurance.
Even though I clicked on this video and knew this card was problematic, my mind still inserted "of a spell or ability *an opponent controls*" into the text to make it make sense.
I put Nadu into a Grolnok deck I just made in Commander (and pulled from MH3 for Amphibian Downpour specifically) and yeah, yeah even with a deck that isn't meant to abuse it it seemed powerful.
I'm not sure that Sylvan Safekeeper goes infinite since it gives Shroud. Messes with equip triggers.
Nope. You sac targeting, resolve the trigger, and then before resolving the first ability, you can sac and target again - getting around the Shroud preventing you.
It's less than ideal, as it's very "all in" - but it plays into the gameplan - and ultimately is more used to protect the combo enabler of Nadu with one sac, enabling the ability to equip to the rest of your board.
It's very, very good.
@@PleasantKenobi Holy crap that's incredible! To this day, the stack continues to blow my mind.
A hard counter to Nadu is ironically another Kamigawa card, side in Horobi, Death's Wail but they could blow it up with their targeted protection spells so it's sadly not really lol
Remember when Wild Nacatl and Kird ape were busted?
Kinda miss those days. I feel like the run of cards from around Lorwyn/alara to the first innistrad were all a great level of power, Mirrodon included, even if it was a tad pushed. There was a great power balance then.
Idk exactly when it fell off, but I feel like that 3-6 year run of MTG was some of the best I personally got to play in.
Commander player here. I feel like Nadu is the best advocate yet for the return of the "banned as commander" rule. I feel like he's perfectly fine (in edh) in the 99. But as a commander, he's too cheap, too available, and just too ever-present of a threat. Just my two cents though. Also, yeah, ban Shuko for the non edh homies.
Boy do I wish banned as commander would come back. There's a lot of cards that fit this. Rofellos in the zone? 2 mana dork that just makes obscene amounts of mana with no effort. Rofellos in the deck? A strong dork with 1 toughness that crumbles like anything else. Still super strong but it dies to practically anything and isn't terribly likely to come back in a mono green deck. It's only a problem as a commander because you drop it turn 2 every single game and get to recast it later when its even more effective.
@@theabrandt6177 going turn 1 dork into turn 2 birb every game is def the main salt generator for that card.
Banning Shaku does nothing because you now have to risk banning any card that gives your free target triggers repeatedly which there are plenty of. Shaku isn't the issue and its pretty clear it's not the issue. Even if you don't want to ban Nadu there's 3 or 4 other cards that are much more sane bans because they're cards that are just issues even outside this deck specifically.
@@Shmackle123 You aim too low! Wait for Jeweled Lotus + Land into Birb; then they can hold up Safekeeping or Snakeskin Veil or something similar so he doesn't die to removal (and you gave them cards by trying).
Ban Nadu himself in modern not its enablers.
Nardu is tearing up 1v1 commander. I've lost so many games to it already
1 v 1 commander aint it is why
yeah my light paws deck can win by turn 4 and nadu just beats the pants off it and i cant even target it or it gets more triggers and prickly bill just makes it go off like crazy
Yeah this card is just stupid especially as commander. It really should have been nerfed to at least "once per creature, lands enter tapped". Even then it is still great especially on instant speed effects during other turns.
Another possible nerf would to make a land centric card where instead of add to hand you scry non-lands
It's been banned in Duel Commander. That's the version most people play in paper.
It's not hard to beat at all in my experience 1v1. I play many Orzhov / Mardu and the bird takes an absolute pummeling. Mt most recent game Shadrix vs Nadir they wiffed a few times and just threw to my board state and removal
I'm shocked one ring hasn't been banned yet.
They can’t ban a card that post Malone just spent 2 million dollars on
@@honestabe411it's also not ban worthy
@@iankane3732 it’s also a bad sign when they print auto include colorless cards
@@honestabe411 it's not an auto include though? There are scores of meta decks that don't run the ring lol.
@@iankane3732 you’re not going to be able to convince me it isn’t powerful. Bonkers artifacts that go in any color deck can be quite problematic and doesn’t bode well for future design
There have been many broken cards in recent times but this one, especially in Brawl, is the closest thing to toddler fanning all of the cards from their deck on to the table because they haven't developed mentally enough to understand the rules of the game. This is a caricature of a magic card. Does anyone else think that Wizards thinking being a pro player is appropriate credentials to design a magic set has been a disaster for the game (among many other disasters)?
I've build Nadu (commander) as a Mutate Matters deck and I'd be curious to see how that would work out in Modern. Probably too slow.
I could see a resurgence of sideboard all-star Suppression Field to punish nadu decks, alongside Tunnel Ignus
But that makes me wonder: what do other colors have to deal with Nadu trying to go off?
I heard Party Box?
I'd love to see more videos of that~
I could see this getting an errata too. I feel like the thought was you could only get two triggers from Nadu effect period. Not two each creature. That dramatically checks the power of this card, but leaves it useful.
This card isn’t going anywhere as long as Wizards continues to print cards that disrupt the status quo of the meta. Nadu is a hot topic, it’s brining a lot of attention to the format, and causing players to do what they’ve always done; adapt. This deck is not invincible, and banning Nadu would be a serious overreaction
lol holy fuck what an awful take after the past event.
What if they just added "until end of turn"? Is that too harsh? It could still combo but players would have to plan ahead to set up.
Best nadu video so far, especially before PT
I cannot get over the fact that if they had made Nadu's ability only pop on spells or abilities opponent's control it would immediately go from broken to just pretty good.
It should have been a twice per turn ability on JUST Nadu, with a classic explore text of draw and then you may put a land onto the battlefield from your hand. that ways the normal draw combo punishers would still need to at least be dealt with first before comboing off(which is not difficult for white in modern+ it has loads of kill spells) and if you actually want to combo off you'd have to play GWU with a heavy emphasis on flicker effects (flicker makes it count as a new object, so the ability's trigger count resets), and when played otherwise would only end up with a normal amount of value instead of draw your whole deck and dump all lands from it untapped onto the battlefield.
Also, obviously the damn birb body should've been 3/3 or 2/4. How the fuck did WOTC approve this card. this is even worse than writhing chrysalis.
What I'm surprised by is that watching these Nadu decks, no one is playing things like Mutavault, Blinkmoth and Inkmoth nexus. They're a free creature essentially when you start to combo off as since the land comes into play untapped, you can just tap them for mana, use that mana to activate the ability and then just shove your shuko onto them to get two more draws. I'm not sure if that's the best line, but it feels like it would be better then filling your deck with just a ton of creatures and hoping for the best as the creature you're playing is basically free with the Nadu trigger and doesn't really impact mana in the deck either.
Something not mention about outrider, you can do it on the enemy turns too
The One Ring is never going to be banned.
I'm still trying to put together a psychic frog list that hits every button for me, tempo is definitely the way to go, but there's something about madness or cookbook that makes me think there's something more to the lil' croaker
I have been playing a pretty fun dreamtide whale simic deck that uses cards like ledger shredder and dragonsgaurd elite to stack counters then blue draw and removal to trigger the abilities and its been pretty fun not the most powerful sure but fun to watch the numbers skyrocket when you play a ornery tumblewagg or smth
UB mill makes nadu scoop on turn zero if you archive trap and surgical it
Playing Nadu against Shelodred, the Sheoldred player cast her and was like "Good Game".
Ooops.
Oh no, they didn't know...
If you would’ve added a crow cawing sound at the end when you were on about the goblin shitting on the bird would have been pretty funny
Im sorry but how do you attack shunko two times? You cant unequip equipment without another creature
You can reequip it to itself even if it’s already equipped.
What about lightning grieves? Doesnt it do the same but better than Shuko?
Lightning greaves make whatever they are equipped to untargetable. So if you only had 1 creature you can only equip once then they can't be targeted for the 2nd trigger.
I just hope they don't ban The One Ring because that will lead to a bunch of dumb clickbait articles and "thinkpieces" where people talk half-ass about LotR lore
Just why does it work off your own creatures. It triggering only twice each turn, lands entering untapped, resetting when they are blinked is all mad but if you couldn't trigger it yourself its not a combo engine it just a strange protection piece, like I originally thought it was till someone not dyslexic read the card for me😅
For having played it on paper exclusively, it really isn’t long to resolve it lol. You can go through the motions pretty quickly and cleanely as long as you're clear about what you're doing. Past a certain point people scoop because it becomes deterministic, especially if you cast a second nantuko. Mtgo is a clicking nightmare and no shortcuts can be offered to make it faster
As someone who has played a lot of yawg and now Nadu on mtgo, its not that bad. As long as you set up your auto yields for each trigger then you can execute it pretty quickly. I haven't had any problems with going to time.
What do you think about the Wheel of Potential drawing infinite cards for free (just casting the spell), because of the rulesinteraction (you can declare x to be 'what ever you want' and then just dont pay the energy, because its a 'may')? :-)
Modern now feels like Legacy... and Pioneer feels like Modern when it first started out.
Makes sense. Pioneer card pool as of right now is about as big as modern when it started with no “straight to pioneer” releases yet
Pro tour finals gonna be Nadu vs. Nadu
Yes
My theory is that Nadu originated as an idea with that "Twice each turn" clause. Once each turn effects have existed for a long time, and upping that by exactly one is definitely a modern horizons thing to do. However, instead of giving it interesting mechanics on top of that, they just gave it the Simic wombo combo of card advantage and land ramp.
They put together twice per turn, a Kira Great Glass Spinner effect, swapped out protection for a generic simic beneficial effect and showed it to a bunch of playtesters who never heard of the Legacy format.
the time thing seems like a possible legit complaint for modo, but people choose to not concede. In paper people will concede because its the same with the druid combo deck. its not even going faster than turn 3 so I don't see it being banned tbh
I still dont understand why its "twice per turn" and not "once per turn", you know given that its given to each creature and is easily resetable as flickering the nadu resets all creatures.
There are so many little things with nadu that could've been tweaked to dial it down and they just didn't. Basic lands, enter tapped, just give nadu the ability, 2 toughness, nonlegendary, etc
About roman numerals. Romans had fractional ways to measure, which sadly were based on 1/12 or a uncia (meaning 'ounce').
Many of the following names are based on how the fractions reduced: sextan, quadrans, triens are 1/6, 1/4 and 1/3 respectively.
So 6/12 or 1/2 is a semis. I don’t know if you can say “II S” or how to properly express 2.5. Clearly uncia were used for volumes/mass/lengths and maybe not integrated in any other way? (I’m not a roman scholar, just doing some light searching)
"This ability can only triggers twice each turn"
So it cannot be an infinite combo dude😂
You seem to have missed the entire video explaining how it very easily becomes a deterministic combo - where if the library was infinitely large, thanks to Nantuko, it would go infinite.
But go off, king. 🤣
7:30 "A week before would be inresposable"😅
Meanwhile - I think - in YGO there will a important set release a few days before a tournament
that may or my not contain relevant cards 🔥
its kind of hard to argue that its not time to start restricting cards in non-vintage formats.
The restriction of only one in the deck (or at least "cant be cast if you control a permanent named The One Ring" or something) should have been printed on The One Ring, but alas..
why
I want to see a commander game with Nadu against Horobi, Death’s Wail and see who shits themselves first.
I like the closing statements here a lot. The idea of modern growing into a bit of a matchup-based rock paper scissor top set of decks could be fun, as long as they dont STAY the top decks, and things work around it. Let the deck be around for a cluple month so we can see kf its as unstoppable as we think ...but no longer.
I still remember back when during my youth, the crazy (at the time) stuff rocking the boat out of tempest block. Exodus was considered the most wild set at the time, with stuff like Recurring nightmare, hatred, mind over matter. Then Urza Block hit and we all lost our damn minds (though as a kid it felt fun to mail banned cards to wotc in exchange for boosters).
But stuff like ho-boy-gaak and "Nah-dude" Nadu... my middle school self could have never predicted this kind of BS lol
Spellchecking at WotC:
- Should those quote marks end there?
- Yeah, sure why not
Have you considered running Suppression Field in the sideboard of DnT? I know it taxes Aether Vial, but it should put a pretty hard stop on the bird. Shuko now equips for 2 mana. The Kor has to pay 2 to activate its ability. Even their planeswalkers will have a 2 mana tax.
If it was just a flying 3/4 for 3 mana (with no downside) it would already be too good.
The fact it gives its ability to ALL your creatures is ridiculous. I'd rather this get banned than cards that are actually fair outside of this combo. Clearly a mistake.
What I do like is that this bird made a few trash cards from earlier magic relevant and valuable. I always want to see that moving forward. Yesterday's trash, today's treasure.
I did not even clock that it's a 3/4 for 3. My eyes got big with worry seeing the lands come in untapped part, but that rate is absurd to me. It is pretty neat that it gets around Sheholdred tho tbh, but I see no world where this deck lives. Just way too slow and not fun to play against or watch.
I don't think it takes too long to resolve in paper.
"I will target these 3 creatures two times each, that is 6 triggers." Opponent goes "okay". And you start flipping over cards. Lands go into the battlefield, the rest you leave revealed on the table for your opponent to see, so they can note them down if they want.
You can short cut a lot more in paper, and don't have to click each creature you target. It also likely wins the game. Unlike something like top, where you might check again and again every turn of the game, and have a difficult decision every time you check.
i wish they at least made the lands enter tapped
it would help prevent those nadu turns where they start with nothing but a shuko, then go nadu and just draw their whole deck instantly
Doesn't Confounding Conundrum also disrupt the playing extra lands part of Nardu?
No
No the bird is just broken with things like landfall period. Bristly Bill, Roaring Earth, Scute Swarm and Springheart Nantuko. This thing can just keep generating tokens with each land drop from the bird. Or mana with Lotus Cobra. Who needs a 0 equip card. Also given that this triggers off any spell cast by your opponent that targets to remove. You can get your card and use it to counter that spell. Outside of a board wipe this bird will be hard for decks to deal with. It's ability should have been twice overall instead of twice per creature that can refresh with a flicker.
I think I know the answer as Tunnel Ignus has only 1 printing and is only 1usd by TCG. Does Tunnel Ignus see any other play?
We shouldnt have niche cards in the sideboard to solve 1 (ONE) specific problem card: Nadu.
Is Surgical Extraction still modern legal?
Run Afoul is probably way too narrow for sideboards, but it is a 1-mana, instant-speed, non-targetting way to get Nadu off the board (assuming there's no Teferi/OneRing protections).
the shroud thing won't work because that would prevent even YOU from targeting your stuff, cancelling out the combo.
what about lightning greaves
Nadus last sentence should have been outside the quotation marks. He would still be a really playable creature in many formats, even commander. Now, we have a yugioh-card and "soft and hard once per turn" got hold in magic. And soft / hard once per turn-things are one of the worst aspects of ygo and any card game for that matter, as it is an emergency break for an already broken game. It has no place in magic.
7:53 they had already said the banning on Monday will not affect the PT.
If Shuko gets banned wouldn't people just play Lightning Greaves? I get 2 Mana is way more than 1, but if the combo is good enough it wouldn't matter much.
Slows the combo down a full turn and can't be fetched by urza's saga like shuko, so it is much worse.
My opponent played it in Amulet Titan at my lgs. It was gross. It got him 6 more cards before I could do anything, then the next turn killed me with two hasted Titans one equipped with Shuko to get me exactly at 17. He even ran the One Ring, it was absurdly busted.
I love the new bolt lands in mtg. Its lands with almost no downsides besides not being basics. Paying 3 life for a land to have a castable ability? That's a great deal to always draw a cast spell.
how long till we get nadu shuko the molten pinnacle 😅
9:52 This is a good point, but Nadu turns practically everything into a top.
As a Risen Reef enjoyer. I see Nadu as a natural evolution 😌
That's the crab elemental right? Evolution is damn scary then
The prob wanted the last line to limit Nadu to only run twice a turn but didn't make it clear enough
I was wondering why my foil Shukos went through the roof all of a sudden
Everyone thought I was dumb when I said the thing that makes Nadu busted is he costs 3 mana, and has 4 toughness. well turns out....
As a cEDH player with Nadu in the 99: Not being able to quickly take your turn is a Pilot issue. You should know what your cards do, and what your plan of action will do. Have a good way to measure your triggers, and the appropriate amount of tokens/etc for the actions you want to be taking.
small edit: not every card translates to MTGO well, as well. Creature combo decks are definitely in this category, as they require many actions. I concede the point that this is better in Paper.
Thoracle doesn't even need you to be empty! If you have enough blue creatures you can always just win a little bit earlier, though in practice it doesn't really matter.
I think it may get a commander ban…I’ve seen it in “casual” games and it’s not pretty.
If you are running dimir then there are 2 cards I know of to mess with it.
One called horobi and one called dismiss into dreams.