The Truth About Sybil | Downton Abbey
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- Violet urges Dr Clarkson to lie to Lord Grantham and Cora to bring about some peace between them.
Clip From Season 3 Episode 6 - Bates faces the reality that he could very well spend the rest of his life behind bars for Vera's murder unless devises a convincing appeal. Violet finds herself having to play peacemaker as Robert and Cora have difficulties in their relationship. Meanwhile, the hot-headed Branson makes decisions which could cause him even more trouble but he finds support from an unexpected corner.
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"Dr. Clarkson, you have created a division between my son and his wife". No, Violet. The truth created a division between Robert and Cora.
This!
No, Cora created a division between her and her husband. Of course, Tapsell was an arrogant doctor and he didn't sound right from the start, but I can see where Robert's coming from for not trusting Clarkson. He did misdiagnose Matthew and Lavinia, so Robert's doubt about him wasn't out of nowhere.
@@OnLifeandLove I don't really blame Robert for Sibyl's death but I also don't blame Cora for her feelings. And I think it's incredibly unfair to do so. I have not lost a child myself, but anyone who has can tell you what a dreadful, traumatic experience it is--that it makes it hard to be rational about anything. It puts a tremendous strain on most marriages, and that's not an indication that the people in them are bad people.
@@harringt100 True except that Cora wasn't entirely ''irrational'', there was truth in what she thought/said. There was a chance to save Sybil, even if the tiniest one, but they still blew it thanks to that jerk of a doctor and Robert
@@OnLifeandLove No, Cora only said what she thought and she was at least partially right. The new doctor's incompetence and their child's death diviided them, not Cora.
I understand where Violet was coming from, but I kind of hated how she bullied Dr. Clarkson to lie while Sir Phillip got off scott free.
Sir Phillip will always live with the acknowledgment that his pride kept him from saving someone.
@@anneofgreengables1367 I doubt it. I think his pride is going to make him think that yes, he was right and that village doctor was the reason behind his failure
@@naturazpolski9213 He couldn't possibly think that Dr. Clarkson was the reason behind his failure as Robert followed HIS directives, not Dr. Clarkson's. I think Sir Phillip is too prideful to even admit that his pride is what kept him from doing what was best for his patient. He had to show the country doctor up.
I note that Mary goes to a different doctor for her troubles.
You also have to remember that medical treatment back then wasn’t as good compared to what it is today, especially when regarding what happened to Lady Sybil. Regardless of which option was made to ensure the birth of Tom and Sybil’s child (even though Dr. Clarkson’s was the recommended option), she would’ve died anyways. Whereas if there was a modern version of Downtown Abbey it would be obvious that thanks to modern medicine Lady Sybil would definitely have survived both options.
On the one hand, I understand where Violet's coming from. She firmly believes that Robert and Cora need each other's help and comfort as they get through losing Sybil, and I think she is correct on that end. On the other hand, I can find myself agreeing with those who say that Robert might have gotten off the hook a little too easily.
I definitely agree that Robert got off the hook a bit quickly, however, I think Violet's decision to interfere was the better way for both Robert and Cora. They were both suffering tremendously, and I don't think either of them would have benefited if the situation had continued. Cora was so lost in her grief, she wouldn't have gained anything from more emphasis on the fact that Clarkson had been right. I think this is a situation where healing is more important than being right, especially since Robert acknowledged his mistake. Also, I don't think Cora is entirely clueless about Clarkson's careful words. She probably realised that they were intended to bring her and Robert back together.
I'm one of those people. How many times does Robert have to be rescued before they figure out that some actions demand consequences. I mean jeez. Robert almost had an affair. He doesn't deserve a safety net all of the time.
Comment by Carmencita: The local doctor was correct; they should have transported Sybil to the hospital. The so-called, expert doctor, was arrogant. That is what a doctor would have done; but, she had to die in this story. Very sad, but the Dowager did the right thing by interfering to save Cora and Robert's relationship.
Nonsense. He thought the guy's reputation meant competence. He can't be blamed for it. It would have made his grief worse than it had to be and in an unfair manner.
She wasn’t wrong. She understands how emotional and irrational humans are.
You can tell that Cora's anger was the only thing keeping her together. Great acting.
"Lie is so unmusical a word."
I get why Violet did this of course but it was very convenient to forget the responsability of that lord Something and Robert's obsession for rank rather than trusting the local doctor who knew Sybil her whole life.
Sybil's death was the most heartbreaking death in the series. She was such a lovable character all for her to die off so soon 😔
Yes. And the actress played that death scene admirably. It was quite emotional.
@@deborahpinkey1264 I definitely cried 😔 It was such a well acted scene for sure 👍
Well, blame the actress who decided to quit then (not that's we can judge anyone for their professional choices)
It doesn't matter how many times I've seen this. It will always make me tear up.
Me too...
Exactly what I was thinking!
Me, too! 😢
Same. Sybil was my favorite character from the start! 😭
Lady Violet gets an A+ for this intervention. It may have saved Lord and Lady Grantham's marriage! Once again, she proved herself a very wise woman!
I've never hated more than in this scene.
Robert was literally the worst character in the show & the dumbest. He refused to modernise, then blew all of his wife’s money away, cheated and then got mad at cora, was too stuck up to see that his daughter’s life was in actual danger.
Absolutely. I've never loved her more . 💖
@@shnope to address your points, first, he never refused to modernize. Did you even watch the show? He, and everyone else, resisted Sybil's marriage but at the end he accepted it. Something, I assure you, no other high class family in that time would allow. And he resisted it because of Sybil. He considered her life as working person in Ireland, that was a boiling cauldron at that time, and pushed against it. But at the end he didn't only accept it but accepted Tom and ended up loving him like a son.
Second, Cora's money was blown up by investing in modernization. It was a bad investement, sure, and yes robert is not good in economics. He is more of a people's person. Remember on many occasions he helped his staff and generally people in need quite a lot, most of the time at the expense of his money or risking reputation. What I, and people who watch the show I am sure, concluded is that he didn't resist the modernization but he didn't want to allow it to destroy Downton. That is why in s5 he invested, from his pocket, in hiring construction co to build houses that do not ruin the beauty of the village or the estate instead of letting person shower them with money in order to build however he liked, like Tom and Marry suggested. Like Hugh Bonaville said, Robert was for evolution but not revolution. His flirt with maid was hard one to justify, but series took time to show it did not come for no reason (even tho no reason justifies it). In those episodes, however, Cora had quite a fiew dissapointing moments thowards him cleverly written to corelate with him flirting with maid. As for Sybil's demise Robert was given an impossible decission. On one side he had an expert doctor from London assuring Sybil is fine and on the other good old dr Clarkson suggesting a risky surgery. It is an impossible situation and he went with choice that looked more favorable and came from a bigger expert. You contradict yourself here a bit, because with modern thinking everyone would listen more seasoned, expert from big city instead of doctor from small village.
@@DarkSpells87 I’m the one who’s contradicting, read your own comment again lmfao. I wrote a 2 fuxking sentence comment and here you are writing paragraphs?? Are you okay? Its a fictional character? People will have different opinions. Are you a redditor? Pls post essays like this on there, i for hardly have the energy or the time & patience to argue with someone about some fictional show.
1:12 No he didn’t. They created it themselves. He was caught in the crossfire. He should not be expected to abase himself for their sake.
To put his professional pride aside so that these two people can move on together from the horrible tragedy of losing their daughter is the mark of a true healer. It's not like they had therapy or couple's counseling - the problem would've grown between them until the memory of the love they'd shared was nothing but poison. Something that would've torn Sybil's heart out.
Yes, to know he was very much right but do what he did for the the sake of their relationship was its own medicine. A+, Doctor.
😢 agreed
this scene always gets me .Treatments have come a long way but this condition is still very dangerous
How loving is lady Grantham! In her own and ubique way! So inteligent!
The pain on Cora's face throughout the heartbreak and aftermath of Sybil's death makes my eyes burn. .... PEACE to ALL.
This breaks my heart all over again. What a thing to witness and experience as so many mothers, fathers and families did. Even when childbirth goes 'smoothly', the slightest shift can change everything. A subject many people remain ignorant about!
I wish Sybil's death wouldn't be out of Robert's misjudgment to lead Dr. Clarkson to bend the truth.
Ofc the appreciable part of the story was Violent doing anything for her family, as always❤❤❤
I had pre eclampsia when my son was born almost 50 years ago. It was as complicated and horrific even then. I would never recommend Ohio State University Hospital to anyone.
Robert pretty much killed his daughter and Violet robbed Cora of holding the person responsible. Poor Doctor Clarkson is basically forced to bend the truth into a pretzel to spare Robert.
No he didn't.
I know right
I also got so mad when they didn’t listen to dr Clarkson
Especially since he knows the family
So laying blame is ok when it's a man
I understand that there was nothing or nobody that could have brought Sybil back at that point. But it is unacceptable that nobody woke up to realise that Robert was an absolute idiot who was bringing not only his family to financial ruin, but also his own daughter to death in the name of some obsolete principles he cherished without questioning. To trust a doctor more just because he was a SIR and so to put your own daughter’s life in danger seems utterly preposterous. Also, he just doesn’t understand that his values have no place in the new world: his contempt for the Irish, for the Catholics, for the working class people like Tom, for businessmen just goes to show that he’s stuck up in a past of no relevance and nobody holds him accountable for the disastrous decisions that he keeps making.
Isn’t he supposed to be realistic of an aristocratic of the time? I actually find him more open than I’d expect.
I'm quite surprised by how everyone in the comments seem to blame Robert for everything while excusing the basic responsibilities of medical professionals. Robert was not educated in medicine and he was presented with 2 constrasting medical opinions with no time to consider the options. In what world would him choosing the recommendation of the doctor who had a better reputation be unreasonable? The local doctor knowing her all her life was quite irrelevant as he was not an expert on child deliveries - you don't go to your local GP for that. You think he's snobbish because the other doctor has a knighthood, but think about what you would do when a medical professor at Harvard gives you an opinion that's not the same as your local GP, who isn't even a surgeon, are you really going to pick the former's recommendation? You can argue that that's academic snobbery but then by that logic doctors don't need to go to university, if university degrees mean nothing.
I also don't think Dr Clarkson necessarily lied in the end. You have to take into consideration of the fact that he was never an expert on this and the medical technology at that time. Women still died in childbirth all the time. People could bleed to death from a c-section and he himself admitted in the beginning that it was never certain. "There's a chance" was the right phrase to describe it so what he said in the end was really just presenting a version of the truth, focusing on the uncertainty rather than the possibility. The only thing that's closest to a lie was when he said she would've died either way. I'd say that's quite likely considering the fact that she'd have to be taken to the hospital first and the lack of medical technology and knowledge at that time, but still it wasn't certain.
I do feel for Dr. Clarkson. I think he did the best he could here. He perhaps bent the truth slightly or was diplomatic at the very least but he still said there was a small chance she could live, like you say. He wanted to help the Crawleys I think, not just because they're a powerful family but he knows and respects them because they are quite kind on the whole. He probably felt bad he divided the couple without meaning to.
I'm also a bit baffled to read the comments to be honest. I don't think people realise how horrific and hugely deadly cesarean sections were a century ago. To believe that she would definitely have lived is quite naive.
And of course you would follow the experts opinion.
I do agree that Robert can be quite snobbish at times, but Sybil dying is not his fault. Plus, saying he 'got off lightly' as many are here when his child is dead is just... No.
The difference is that Dr. Clarkson acknowledged risk in both scenarios. Sir Philip pretended his scenario was risk-free (which is never true in medicine, and especially not in those days). Dr. Clarkson was behaving as a doctor should, Sir Philip was not. Anyone worth their salt should’ve seen through that-and Cora and Violet did! But Robert did not
I'm glad Clarkson got a couple of good diagnoses later in the series. They were calling him Dr. Death for a while.
Once again, bringing home the fact that pregnancy can be dangerous. Normal perfect pregnancies can go south in a big hurry without warning. I've seen it happen, working L&D as an RN. The reason I'm so much against home deliveries.
So sad for them. It's like she died all over again. :(
My dear old grandma used to call this a soft lie.....a lie that was told for no other reason than for kindness as the truth would be too brutal.
She was the best of the whole series. sad she left the show
Jessica Findlay Brown was gorgeous.Could have replaced her and Matthew though.Cant bare Henry Talbot.
Robert thinking he was right until the end.
Desperate.
Nah I still blame Robert
Lol but as Hugh Bonneville said Dr. Clarkson had been wrong before several times. Remember he said Matthew was paralyzed for life. He said Mathew's fiancé would recover for the Spanish flu that she only had a mild case. He also did not listen to Sybil and Thomas about not sending home the guy who committed suicide.
@@peachygal4153 On point
Same
That explains this situation of saving Grantham's marriage after the doctor told the dowager the truth in private until the doctor told both of them different stories to save the marriage trying to get the grief over their youngest daughter's death.
I don't agree that lady Violet should have forced the doctor to make that statement because I believe lady civil could have lived if they would have given her the cesarean I don't think it was right for a lady Violet to put pressure on the doctor
Perhaps but think needed to be done sooner before natural labour.Also instruments would need to be sterriled as no antibiotics. Also wasn't a C section but a large vertical cut back then.
This is disgusting. Is there literally no failure of Robert’s that he’s ever made to pay for?
I mean, what would be the point in that? A broken marriage and both Cora and Robert suffering even more? I get where you're coming from, but I don't think it would've been good for Cora if this situation had continued. Losing a child is tragic enough as it is, and it's not as if Robert intended for Sybil to die. He had good intentions, he just terribly misjudged the situation. However, he acknowledged this mistake, and sadly there was nothing more that could've been done.
That time and class, no.
@@MorganaNessa Losing a man whose arrogance put your child at risk isn’t suffering more. There is nothing worse after the loss of a child.
I rather think that Robert is suffering a great deal. He is grieving his daughter, and his wife has been shut away in her grief leaving him alone in his. He faced the very real possibility that his wife might not cone out of such a condition and either become permanently reclusive, which would become a topic of discussion, i.e. "scandal", she might divorce him, which would be worse, or she would grieve herself to death. All of these have occurred and still occur in our modern day. Lady Violet is not interfering just for Robert, but also for the mental health of her daughter-in-law, especially as she came of age in an era when grief often took women to either madness or the grave.
Lastly, as she says, she is not wanting him to lie and say that he was wrong, both of them know better than to think he would ever go so far, but she is asking him to put more weight on the serious nature of Sybil's condition and the still high probability of her dying even after the surgery. He tells no lies, and even declares the other doctor to have been arrogant in his diagnosis. He merely downplays his own estimations of her chances in light of further evidence in his research.
Further, it is possible that he did do additional research and discovered that he had overestimated her chances, though likely not so badly as he implies here, he also reiterates that his plan was still the most likely to have saved her life, but the only guarantee wad pain and fear, which Robert was trying to avoid.
@@lizziebkennedy7505 Yes, there is. The worst is having no support after losing a child.
I’ve a wild crush on both Rob James-Collier and Thomas. Sigh.
One of the most powerful moments in all the series
I still blame the father.
I m sorry for Lord and Lady Grantham that was a terrible night
Violet using her power to force the doctor to make a false testimony just for her son’s sake was one of the most revolting things to watch.
I know this is going to be splitting hairs, but in the medical and practical realms it is vital. They are speculating all of this under the presumption that the diagnosis occurred before the birth. It really only became noticeable within hours at best of the birth? Would the operation have been helpful that little bit "early?"
There were definitely signs that Sibyl was pre-eclamptic before Sibbie's birth. Dr. Clarkson mentioned the level of protein in her urine, I remember distinctly, and he might have said something about her blood pressure. In the modern world, those would often be strong enough indications to intervene with induction or a C-section if the baby was mature enough to do well. In the modern world, though, a doctor probably would have caught it earlier and maybe induced her significantly before she was in spontaneous labor. And in the modern world, there are measures that can be taken to prevent seizures after the birth as well (mainly magnesium sulfate IVs.) So it does seem reasonable that a C-section after Dr. Clarkson noticed the symptoms would likely not have been enough.
@@harringt100 Protein in urine is rather a vague idea and can be caused by many things.
It was wrong of the doc to do that.
it was more to save their relationship and mental health, cora was on the edge and robert was overwhelmed with guilt, violet took this burden onto herself and made the doctor lie to save her son and daughter in law, its admirable her intentions but sad and dark that it had to resort to lying to fix
I always found Dr Clarkson a questionable character. He refuses to try new procedures to help patients, he resents assistance to the hospital by the merger. He's always just seemed sort of...mediocre. The use of one time where he's actually right to garner sympathy (despite the tragic death of a loved character) has always seemed kinda meh
I quite like him personally. I think he's a kind man, just a little stubborn in some regards like you say :)
…he’s been right more than once, what do you mean?
🙂💚💙