I have Fender custom shop Texas Special pickups on my custom telecaster and I believe they are scatter wound .There is even a Utube video showing how they are wound and they sound great. The spec sheet shows the resistance and the induction but not the capacitance. I love them and wouldn't trade them for anything else
Rickenbacker's are of course machine wound, but they still do scatter windings. The cool part is that the winder is controlled with stepper motors so it's the same scattering every time.
I'm digging through your old catalog. This episode is a gem. I find myself wanting to squander all my money making a computer controlled pickup winder that can set how each half-loop is wound. 10 hours and 6000 precision winds later... a $125 pickup. LOL. Seriously, Mr. Dylan, you have the smartest guitar tone channel on TH-cam. Well done.
Great video ... question is I assume ( perhaps wrongly) that companies like Fender with their higher end piickups are using machines to auomate a scatter wind... presumably they get great consistency ... any observations on this if its the case versus hand wound ? Tks
Do you think cheap wire should be avoided? is there a certain brand I should go for if I want the vintage type tones? I agree with everyone here you do great videos thanks for the info.
@Dylan Talks Tone , does the magnet determines the Resonant Peak of a humbucker? I understand the higher the RP is the brighter tone will be but what causes this. The Duncan Custom has a RP of 6Khz while the Custom-custom is at 5.2Khz. Both of those are the same wind,wire gauge,construction and only the Magnet is different. The Custom uses a ceramic bar and the CC uses a A2 bar.
On that epiphone pickup ID call that fridge magnet. I do have a cheep epiphone with alnico pro 2 pickups. They are pretty good not bosomy but could have a bit more clarity though I think just adjusting the pole pieces will do alot
can you do a crinkled wire to see if kinks in the wire can make a better pick up coil, also, a coil made of multi-strand cable instead of solid core wire?
Nice video... very informative too! So, For instance, if a client came to you, and wanted you to make him a neck humbucker and through referencing the tone of a certain guitar player's sound and his own description of the sound he's looking to get, then how do you craft that new pickup to meet the clients specific tonal needs? Is there a menu or formula that's used to achieve specific characteristics of a pickup's sound... and if so, can you give an example or two? And, yes I do realize that a guitar's tone is determined by the sum of its parts... so, let's say it is a solid mahogany body, a carved maple top with a rosewood topped mahogany neck. This guitar has two humbuckers. The client is looking for a overall tone that has high string definition and very clean and clear tones at lower volumes and when driven produces a smooth long sustain that would work well for leads and chords as well.....
Nothing wrong with the term 'cutting corners', because that is what they do. Currently Epiphone is selling a guitar in the shops for £89. Once every stage has take a slice they have to make an entire 2 pickup guitar for £20. ($25 or so). So what they are doing is incredible. Making decently playable, decently sounding guitars for the price of a couple of hamburgers. Wish they were doing that when I was a wannabe, (50 years ago). Keep up the bull busting, friend. Much appreciated 👍
Thank you Dylan. Can you please tell me what is the definition of machine-wound vs. hand-wound pickups? Most DIY pickup builders use a homemade pickup winder (a machine) thus why call it hand-wound?? Or are you referring to the side-to-side "hand-controlled" manual motion of the winder guide with the DIY builders vs. a factory made pickup that uses a machine for the side-to-side winder guide? Thank you kindly.
Interesting. Do you make Bass pickups? What would the essential difference be when winding for precisions machine vs Scatter. Would I not prefer machine for deeper tones?
Small capacitance affects high frequencies. The difference is mainly in high-end definition. Have you heard for example the difference between standard Fender pickups and Custom Shop? The difference is in clarity and definition.
I just happen to have a Alnico 5 magnet laying around along with a couple 3s my question is about that epiphone pickup with the shower curtain magnet would that pickup become useable if I switched the magnet or is there deeper flaws you didn’t hit on in this video any input would be cool or even cool if not I’m just experimenting with stuff and I also noticed how hot my epiphone pickup is when I buy I cheap guitar I always give it a good setup and pull the pickups I’ve been learning so so much from your videos I appreciate that you don’t talk down to us but at the same time you explain things in a easily digestible manner
Most of the time you will find ceramic magnets in less expensive guitars. The companies still have to make a profit, so they will cut costs where ever they can. Pickups just happen to be one of those components where quality is sacrificed. I am not implying that every pickup with ceramic magnets will sound bad, cause there other variables that have to be taken into consideration. Installing the alnico 5 should be an upgrade from the "shower curtain" type magnet. Some people like alnico 2 magnets in a bridge humbucker and alnico 5 in the neck humbucker. There are a lot of high output humbuckers with ceramic magnets that sound best with distortion but lack clarity when used with a clean tone. Tone is very subjective and what may sound good to me may not sound the same for someone else.
To what extent then is a hand winder's pickup consistent with any of his other pickups. Can a hand winder claim that one of his models is similar to another one of the same model? Or does a hand winder's model only specify the magnets and other things that CAN remain consistent?
How about a video on: how to improve cheap pickups. Simple/ easy things maybe. Things younger guys could do, that are within a reasonable level of ability / cost / tools required / material availability. Maybe things like adding a metal back plate to a strat pickup. Or changing / swapping out ceramic magnets. My thought here is, for instance. To help getter a better sound ehen money is hard to come by. Or while saving up for some new pickups. Mainly im thinking about the younger players here. Plus, it couldnt hurt to have young people opening the hood and learning some new things.
Bryan Keith Kids shouldn’t be messing with pickups. If one of those tiny wires get broken/cut the pickup is gone. There isn’t anything you can do to improve cheap pickups. Save up or wait for Christmas or mow grass or whatever to buy a $100 set of pickups. You’re not gonna tell a difference with a cheap amp anyway. Just focus on playing cleaner and more dynamically. I have a $99 set of alnico 5 low output pickups from planet tone (scooped set) and they sound as good as anything I’ve played. My CS Fat 50s sound slightly different but not drastically. What I’m saying is if you’re a broke kid don’t waste a bunch time/money thinking pickups are going to make you John Mayer. Save for a good tube amp instead. You will notice that big time and it will make you sound better. Or just spend the time getting better so when you can afford gear you will deserve it. Relax and play what you have!
There are videos how to recharge existing magnets, or replace with better magnets. You can pot your pickups with wax if needed. I use part paraffin part beeswax. Videos on that too.
RWRP. Reverse Wind Reverse Polarity. Both coils have opposite polarities and one winded on one side, the other winded the other way around. That is done to cancel the hum. It would still work without rwrp but the hum would add up like old strats that didn't have a rwrp middle pickup.
With single coils the RWRP terminology is correct but with humbuckers that is not necessarily the case. I have seen many humbuckers that both coils were wound in the same direction with opposite polarities. What makes the pickups hum cancelling is the flow of current passing through each coil is in opposite directions when the coils are connected to each other. Single coils on the other hand the neck and bridge pickups are wound in the same direction and the magnet polarities are the same. The middle pickup has opposite polarity and wind direction. This enables hum cancelling in positions 2 and 4 when two pickups are selected at the same time.
Hey. Thanks for these vids. Youve inspired me to try to build my own pus...that being said, any suggestions on a decent oh winder I could buy?? And no, I have no interest in making one. Cheers.
Hi Dylan. Just a quick question, how do you measure the capacitance of the your pickups. I have a capacitance meter but it will only work with capacitors and not with coils such as pick-ups?
Thanks Dylan, I'm using an LC meter also, but it will not measure a capacitance of a coil directly. I can determine the approximate capacitance by measuring the coils inductance & resonant frequency & from these, calculate the effective winding capacitance. I guess what I'm confused about is a relatively high value of the capacitance you measured of 0.046 uF which seems to conflict with a typical value of pickups inductance & resonant frequency, typically 2 - 4 Henry & resonance up at about 6 or more kilohertz. Are you able to tell me the exact method of your measurement? Best regards Mark G.
The "parallel wire" explenation is much too simple. A pickup is an inductor with a capacitor in series - building a resonant circuit; the resonance frequeny AND the Q (resonance increase at resonance frequency) determines the "sound" of the pickup. If you wind a pickup by hand you also influence the impedance of the inductor, the res frequency and the Q-factor... Less capacity does not mean better sound.... winding by hand means random results...
The most common problem with "cheap" pickups is lack of definition (dark sound). There's alot of debate around scatter winding but one thing is certain, scatter winded coils have better definition. I have heard some cheap asian guitars with great sounding pickups. They were probably hand wired in asian sweat shop and turned out decent.
I thought the induction had alot more to do with the density and content of the slugs or metal inside the coil. Like for example how Fender often adds 2 screws behind the bridge pickup to raise it's inductance. I really doubt the scattering changes anything to the inductance. I'd be willing to bet that 2 coils with the same wire and same amount of turns, one more scattered than the other, would have identical inductance.
Inductance yes, but capacitance no. And the resonant frequency is related to both. (It's a pretty simple maths equation actually.) Scattering the winds creates a coil with less capacitance, raising the resonant frequency. (Although I believe winding tension is also a factor for capacitance.) Whether or not you can hear a slight difference in resonant frequency also depends on lots of stuff. Like how high that frequency is, how bright your strings are, the speakers, your pedals, your playing style etc. This is just a guess, but I imagine that cheap asian pickups are wound on large industrial coil winding machines that are for many types of coils and have a simple side to side feed. But machine wound pickups from Kinman, Duncan, Bartolini etc etc have some kind of scattered feed, either mechanically or cnc operated.
@@robb4545 He said there is a different flavor to each. Only you can decide what's better to your ears. Which I agree on. I like less capacitance so I prefer scatterwound. Some might prefer it though, as it melllows the tone. Sorry if I was being harsh.
"Scatter-wound" is just another sales slogan like "aged magnets". A more accurate term would be "random-wound," and any multi-layer winding of wire, finer than 38 AWG, is more or less random-wound. Electricity doesn't distinguish between layered and random-wound coils -- what matters is the count of turns-per-square and the relation between the length and cross-section of a coil. Do you really believe someone hand-guides 8000 turns of copper wire that is as thin as a human hair on a bobbin to complete, maybe, 30 coils per day and can guaranty any consistency? A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!
This theory is great and all, but I'd like to see real evidence that a supposedly hand wound pickup actually measures a lower capacitance. Ditch the white board, bring out capacitance meter.
we have done this in other videos. the problem is, you would have to have two pickups wound exactly the same spec. one on a CNC machine and the other byt hand, This I do not have. It doesn't matter though... science and math don't lie
@@DylanTalksTone The science doesn't lie, but in reality the difference in capacitance is going to be very small because the degree of scatter is very small. If you do actual experimentation you will find this to be true, because that's what I did and found. You don't need identically wound pickups, just a sample pool of hand and machine wound pickups, and you can derive an average.
@@DylanTalksTone If you could do a video showing actual capacitances from a meter, that would be really terrific. You'd be the first TH-camr to have ever done it.
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I have Fender custom shop Texas Special pickups on my custom telecaster and I believe they are scatter wound .There is even a Utube video showing how they are wound and they sound great. The spec sheet shows the resistance and the induction but not the capacitance. I love them and wouldn't trade them for anything else
Rickenbacker's are of course machine wound, but they still do scatter windings. The cool part is that the winder is controlled with stepper motors so it's the same scattering every time.
I'm digging through your old catalog. This episode is a gem. I find myself wanting to squander all my money making a computer controlled pickup winder that can set how each half-loop is wound. 10 hours and 6000 precision winds later... a $125 pickup. LOL. Seriously, Mr. Dylan, you have the smartest guitar tone channel on TH-cam. Well done.
Agreed
I love the way you break things down. Thank you for all these videos
I love the “that’s not a question” statement. The same person is going to do it a bit different from one day to the next…great video!
Wow. Filed under things I thought I understood but did not. Thank you Sir! Best Regards and Best Wishes for 2022!!!
Great video ... question is I assume ( perhaps wrongly) that companies like Fender with their higher end piickups are using machines to auomate a scatter wind... presumably they get great consistency ... any observations on this if its the case versus hand wound ? Tks
Do you think cheap wire should be avoided? is there a certain brand I should go for if I want the vintage type tones? I agree with everyone here you do great videos thanks for the info.
What is the difference between bass pickup and guitar pickup and why?
Interesting video
@Dylan Talks Tone , does the magnet determines the Resonant Peak of a humbucker?
I understand the higher the RP is the brighter tone will be but what causes this.
The Duncan Custom has a RP of 6Khz while the Custom-custom is at 5.2Khz.
Both of those are the same wind,wire gauge,construction and only the Magnet is different.
The Custom uses a ceramic bar and the CC uses a A2 bar.
On that epiphone pickup ID call that fridge magnet. I do have a cheep epiphone with alnico pro 2 pickups. They are pretty good not bosomy but could have a bit more clarity though I think just adjusting the pole pieces will do alot
What about John Suhr pups which are machine scatter wound?
can you do a crinkled wire to see if kinks in the wire can make a better pick up coil, also, a coil made of multi-strand cable instead of solid core wire?
Nice video... very informative too! So, For instance, if a client came to you, and wanted you to make him a neck humbucker and through referencing the tone of a certain guitar player's sound and his own description of the sound he's looking to get, then how do you craft that new pickup to meet the clients specific tonal needs? Is there a menu or formula that's used to achieve specific characteristics of a pickup's sound... and if so, can you give an example or two? And, yes I do realize that a guitar's tone is determined by the sum of its parts... so, let's say it is a solid mahogany body, a carved maple top with a rosewood topped mahogany neck. This guitar has two humbuckers. The client is looking for a overall tone that has high string definition and very clean and clear tones at lower volumes and when driven produces a smooth long sustain that would work well for leads and chords as well.....
"That's not really a question." Haha I love the way you break it down. Very educational; thank you!
Nothing wrong with the term 'cutting corners', because that is what they do. Currently Epiphone is selling a guitar in the shops for £89. Once every stage has take a slice they have to make an entire 2 pickup guitar for £20. ($25 or so). So what they are doing is incredible. Making decently playable, decently sounding guitars for the price of a couple of hamburgers. Wish they were doing that when I was a wannabe, (50 years ago). Keep up the bull busting, friend. Much appreciated 👍
Thank you Dylan. Can you please tell me what is the definition of machine-wound vs. hand-wound pickups? Most DIY pickup builders use a homemade pickup winder (a machine) thus why call it hand-wound?? Or are you referring to the side-to-side "hand-controlled" manual motion of the winder guide with the DIY builders vs. a factory made pickup that uses a machine for the side-to-side winder guide? Thank you kindly.
Thank you
Now we need to talk about capacitive reactance vs. inductive reactance and hysteresis losses at audio frequencies.
Interesting. Do you make Bass pickups? What would the essential difference be when winding for precisions machine vs Scatter. Would I not prefer machine for deeper tones?
Small capacitance affects high frequencies. The difference is mainly in high-end definition. Have you heard for example the difference between standard Fender pickups and Custom Shop? The difference is in clarity and definition.
Thanks! Great explanation!!!!
I just happen to have a Alnico 5 magnet laying around along with a couple 3s my question is about that epiphone pickup with the shower curtain magnet would that pickup become useable if I switched the magnet or is there deeper flaws you didn’t hit on in this video any input would be cool or even cool if not I’m just experimenting with stuff and I also noticed how hot my epiphone pickup is when I buy I cheap guitar I always give it a good setup and pull the pickups I’ve been learning so so much from your videos I appreciate that you don’t talk down to us but at the same time you explain things in a easily digestible manner
Most of the time you will find ceramic magnets in less expensive guitars. The companies still have to make a profit, so they will cut costs where ever they can. Pickups just happen to be one of those components where quality is sacrificed. I am not implying that every pickup with ceramic magnets will sound bad, cause there other variables that have to be taken into consideration. Installing the alnico 5 should be an upgrade from the "shower curtain" type magnet. Some people like alnico 2 magnets in a bridge humbucker and alnico 5 in the neck humbucker. There are a lot of high output humbuckers with ceramic magnets that sound best with distortion but lack clarity when used with a clean tone. Tone is very subjective and what may sound good to me may not sound the same for someone else.
To what extent then is a hand winder's pickup consistent with any of his other pickups. Can a hand winder claim that one of his models is similar to another one of the same model? Or does a hand winder's model only specify the magnets and other things that CAN remain consistent?
996 SP on the wall behind you? Nice!
thanks soooo much for your input ... :)
May I ask what do we ask a seller on the specs of a better pick up?
the tradeoff is that you have more ringing/spikes at random frequencies though
Noob question :)
Why do some pickups have variable height magnets and some others have them all at the same height?
Thats easy... The guitars tone is the sum of all of it's parts....
do you have a couple different patterns... to produce different sounds?
So MIM strat pickups are pretty cheap?
How about a video on: how to improve cheap pickups. Simple/ easy things maybe. Things younger guys could do, that are within a reasonable level of ability / cost / tools required / material availability.
Maybe things like adding a metal back plate to a strat pickup. Or changing / swapping out ceramic magnets.
My thought here is, for instance. To help getter a better sound ehen money is hard to come by. Or while saving up for some new pickups. Mainly im thinking about the younger players here. Plus, it couldnt hurt to have young people opening the hood and learning some new things.
Bryan Keith Kids shouldn’t be messing with pickups. If one of those tiny wires get broken/cut the pickup is gone. There isn’t anything you can do to improve cheap pickups. Save up or wait for Christmas or mow grass or whatever to buy a $100 set of pickups. You’re not gonna tell a difference with a cheap amp anyway. Just focus on playing cleaner and more dynamically. I have a $99 set of alnico 5 low output pickups from planet tone (scooped set) and they sound as good as anything I’ve played. My CS Fat 50s sound slightly different but not drastically. What I’m saying is if you’re a broke kid don’t waste a bunch time/money thinking pickups are going to make you John Mayer. Save for a good tube amp instead. You will notice that big time and it will make you sound better. Or just spend the time getting better so when you can afford gear you will deserve it. Relax and play what you have!
There are videos how to recharge existing magnets, or replace with better magnets. You can pot your pickups with wax if needed. I use part paraffin part beeswax. Videos on that too.
David D
There is actually a lot you can do to improve cheap pickups.
Live and learn.
What’s your pickups called?
Hi Dylan . a query, in the humbuckers, the direction of rotation of the two coils are for the same side ?
RWRP. Reverse Wind Reverse Polarity. Both coils have opposite polarities and one winded on one side, the other winded the other way around. That is done to cancel the hum. It would still work without rwrp but the hum would add up like old strats that didn't have a rwrp middle pickup.
With single coils the RWRP terminology is correct but with humbuckers that is not necessarily the case. I have seen many humbuckers that both coils were wound in the same direction with opposite polarities. What makes the pickups hum cancelling is the flow of current passing through each coil is in opposite directions when the coils are connected to each other. Single coils on the other hand the neck and bridge pickups are wound in the same direction and the magnet polarities are the same. The middle pickup has opposite polarity and wind direction. This enables hum cancelling in positions 2 and 4 when two pickups are selected at the same time.
Hey. Thanks for these vids. Youve inspired me to try to build my own pus...that being said, any suggestions on a decent oh winder I could buy?? And no, I have no interest in making one.
Cheers.
Hi Dylan.
Just a quick question, how do you measure the capacitance of the your pickups.
I have a capacitance meter but it will only work with capacitors and not with coils such as pick-ups?
We have an LC meter that reads it
Thanks Dylan,
I'm using an LC meter also, but it will not measure a capacitance of a coil directly.
I can determine the approximate capacitance by measuring the coils inductance & resonant frequency & from these, calculate the effective winding capacitance.
I guess what I'm confused about is a relatively high value of the capacitance you measured of 0.046 uF which seems to conflict with a typical value of pickups inductance & resonant frequency, typically 2 - 4 Henry & resonance up at about 6 or more kilohertz.
Are you able to tell me the exact method of your measurement?
Best regards
Mark G.
Boom. No reply here?
I would think scatter wound pickups would be less consistant. So good one and bad ones
How does scatter winding relate to resonant frequency?
So then, all hand wound pickups are scatter wound? Because a human cannot keep it as consistently parallel?
So what's this guys take on the tone wood argument I wonder😂
He’ll say that sound was him just rubbing the board but we all know better 💨
The "parallel wire" explenation is much too simple. A pickup is an inductor with a capacitor in series - building a resonant circuit; the resonance frequeny AND the Q (resonance increase at resonance frequency) determines the "sound" of the pickup. If you wind a pickup by hand you also influence the impedance of the inductor, the res frequency and the Q-factor... Less capacity does not mean better sound.... winding by hand means random results...
basically as I understand it as well. Its less quality if scattered. If you make measurements, you can say exactly what you have.
@@uniquehandlewithnumbers1 No it's better scattered (hand winding).
The most common problem with "cheap" pickups is lack of definition (dark sound). There's alot of debate around scatter winding but one thing is certain, scatter winded coils have better definition. I have heard some cheap asian guitars with great sounding pickups. They were probably hand wired in asian sweat shop and turned out decent.
I thought the induction had alot more to do with the density and content of the slugs or metal inside the coil. Like for example how Fender often adds 2 screws behind the bridge pickup to raise it's inductance. I really doubt the scattering changes anything to the inductance. I'd be willing to bet that 2 coils with the same wire and same amount of turns, one more scattered than the other, would have identical inductance.
Inductance yes, but capacitance no. And the resonant frequency is related to both. (It's a pretty simple maths equation actually.) Scattering the winds creates a coil with less capacitance, raising the resonant frequency. (Although I believe winding tension is also a factor for capacitance.) Whether or not you can hear a slight difference in resonant frequency also depends on lots of stuff. Like how high that frequency is, how bright your strings are, the speakers, your pedals, your playing style etc. This is just a guess, but I imagine that cheap asian pickups are wound on large industrial coil winding machines that are for many types of coils and have a simple side to side feed. But machine wound pickups from Kinman, Duncan, Bartolini etc etc have some kind of scattered feed, either mechanically or cnc operated.
Id like to figure out what to do with some humbuckers that squeal like a bitch but they are already potted... Any ideas? Particularly Chinese.
Dude - you forgot your hat!!
So the more scatter wound the better?
Have you even watched the video?
@@lukasschliepkorte3019 Maybe u can answer since u saw the video. it doesn't say
@@robb4545 He said there is a different flavor to each. Only you can decide what's better to your ears. Which I agree on. I like less capacitance so I prefer scatterwound. Some might prefer it though, as it melllows the tone. Sorry if I was being harsh.
@@lukasschliepkorte3019 yea ok i got all that.
"Scatter-wound" is just another sales slogan like "aged magnets". A more accurate term would be "random-wound," and any multi-layer winding of wire, finer than 38 AWG, is more or less random-wound. Electricity doesn't distinguish between layered and random-wound coils -- what matters is the count of turns-per-square and the relation between the length and cross-section of a coil. Do you really believe someone hand-guides 8000 turns of copper wire that is as thin as a human hair on a bobbin to complete, maybe, 30 coils per day and can guaranty any consistency? A well-wound coil is a well-wound coil regardless if it's wound with professional equipment, or if somebody's great-grandmother winds it to an old French recipe with Napoleon's modified coffee grinder and chops off the wire after a mile with an antique guillotine!
This theory is great and all, but I'd like to see real evidence that a supposedly hand wound pickup actually measures a lower capacitance. Ditch the white board, bring out capacitance meter.
we have done this in other videos. the problem is, you would have to have two pickups wound exactly the same spec. one on a CNC machine and the other byt hand, This I do not have. It doesn't matter though... science and math don't lie
@@DylanTalksTone The science doesn't lie, but in reality the difference in capacitance is going to be very small because the degree of scatter is very small. If you do actual experimentation you will find this to be true, because that's what I did and found. You don't need identically wound pickups, just a sample pool of hand and machine wound pickups, and you can derive an average.
lol.... i experiment with this frequently...
@@DylanTalksTone If you could do a video showing actual capacitances from a meter, that would be really terrific. You'd be the first TH-camr to have ever done it.
I may do that... you should subscribe so you don't miss it
optical pickup bypass that issues
kila knoles ?
👍
Custom made pickups is often hand wound
I bought a set of 'hand wood' 'scatter wound' pickups and I cannot tell the bloody difference - a whole lot of bullshit!!!
Bernhard Nizynski lol. Scatterwound is such a buzzword.
BS.
Glad you enjoyed it!!
absolutely great explanation .. thanks ..!!