Where am I? How did i get here? This isn't my normal garbage dump, and this isn't the normal content slave i make videos with. Something is very wrong, I feel a sense of forthcoming respectable effort and high quality content. Help, I'm lost and afraid.
@@Mrs.Grave5433 I refer to Battlestars from the Battlestar galactica series as "Giant brick shithouses", And i like them more than i like the cylon basestar. That's the context.
actually , the star trek game from 1999 , where you command a bridge , "star fleet academy " i think , correct me if im wrong , it had a klingon heavy cruiser that could field 16 high power disrupters , allowing never ending disrupter fire on the target. the game suffered from an exploit , using a sense controller allowed you to fly the enterprise as if it was a fighter jet , and by hoding the controller top down and allowiing a mobile wrist you could keep a manual lock in the cross hairs all day long , IT made the game too easy ,
Nearly didn't click this video due to the crappy home made non canon thumbnail. But you comment popped up and made mea actually which is unusual. For that I salute your sir. Thank-you. Sick of all these fucktards mak8ng up their own ships in started. Yaegar carap being my most hated. Who creat3d that so I can remove them from Existence.
In case anyone's wondering, I made the 3D model of the Klingon B10 battleship used in the thumbnail of this video. I made it for ADB's Starfleet Battles and Federation Commander games back when I used to work for them.
The Klingons not having battleships is easily answered, it's because they are French and have proscribed to "Jeune Ecole". Followers of Drachinifel are probably chuckling now.
Klingons at least follow a cruiser doctrine. The faction that is more French is the Romulans which do use Jeune Ecole mixed with the fleet submarine doctrine.
@@barrybend7189During the TOS era, yes. From what we see at ST Picard, they do it again. But in the TNG era their ships were the largest and most powerful units. The D‘deridex class warbird is said to be 1400 m long - twice as long as the Galaxy class ship, which already was a theme park in space. I really wonder what they did with all that internal volume. And I also think that SF authors do not really consider the relationship between length, mass and volume and just say „Ah, same length, then it’s the same strength, let‘s make it twice as long“ Google D‘deridex vs Galaxy to find overlaying images to see how crazy this is. The Warbird is aprox. 10 times as heavy and 10 times as big in volume terms. Still, this is the canon as it is, so you must consider this ship to be a real battleship. It certainly is not a Jeune Ecole style small specialized ship.
I immediately thought of Drach discussing the French doctrine and how Japanese had adopted it until the battle of the Yalu river showed them how two near obsolete German build monitors were able to punch well above their weight against the newer but smaller and more numerous Japanese fleet ships. The IJN still won an overwhelming victory, but the lesson was not lost on them.
With the emphasis on personal honor and glory large numbers of smaller ships would increase the possibility of individuals gaining recognition. Smaller crews would make it easier for a young warrior to catch the notice of a senior officer.
Ideally Battleships are Led by Veteran Warriors that are older and less glory hunting unfortuanly Most klingon warriors regardless of never Stop being thirsty for HONOR!!!
@@laisphinto6372 I'd expect them to be the commands for senior figures within a great house, people who need to maintain their honor by going to war but are a bit too important to put directly in harms way. Leave that to younger members of the house yet to prove themselves.
@@rotm4447 true but isn't Martok himself "lowborn" and married into the noble house. Perhaps he is accustomed to and prefers a more hands on command of a smaller vessel?
1:04:00 The dual bridges for ship and fleet commanders is a real world separation as well. US Navy aircraft carriers have two bridges one level apart in the island. The Captain of the ship is on one, the navigation bridge, and the Task Force commander, an admiral, is on the flag bridge.
Over an hour long for this video. Neat to see SC.I here. And yeah, this video was a rollercoaster on the history of Klingon Battleships. More of these semi-casual collab videos would be neat to see. *Glory to you, and your house!*
The 2 bridges thing is actually a very common thing for large ships. All 4 Iowas had flag bridges per example. And in the Japanese fleet, the Captain used to go down with the ship, while the admiral transferred his flag to another ship. Also, Aircraft carriers usually have 3 bridges. One for the Admiral, one for ship operations and one for flight operations.
FUN FACT: A traditional ingredient used as a fining agent used in wine-making was ox blood, added as a liquid or powdered as the young wine settled after fermentation. Defibrinated ox blood contains 70 g/l active fining proteins and is used to reduce tannins in young reds. Typical dosages are 0.15-0.25 g/l for red wines. Preparation involves mixing the ox blood in cold water and leaving to swell (dissolution of albumins helped by adding potassium bicarbonate), then the blood mixture is added to the young red wine, stirred, and left to settle. Fining with blood is fairly rapid. Once it settles and clears, the fined wine at the top is poured off and the heavier elements at the bottom are discarded. This blood-fining process is banned now because of mad-cow disease. In my head cannon, the Klingons never had a problem like mad-cow disease (or never cared) and still continue the practice using whatever passes for grapes (or maybe grapes were a non-native species introduced to Qo'noS through trade?) and the blood of targs or something as the fining agent. Worf likes his wine "very young and very sweet", like a Moscato.
So dayum, a fellow Leaf and Venom doing a d e e p ol dive on Klingon Tech. I liked this, a lot. Its great to see a real shipbuilder's eye upon something as vast as klingon design philosophy. And I love it. Honestly, do more. Do one for every race!!!!!! MOAR!!!!!! (ps, Panic says Merci
The main reason for the few battleships could be due to how they are structured. As a nobility based militia, the houses pay for the majority of the species military. Keeps taxes down, but each house would be hard pressed to pay for their own battleship for day to day purposes. The standing military that the government controls is also small, and need to focus on more ships for patrol and security, and battleships are a black hole for fundings. So when they get the itch to build one, it has to be good for long term use, and for the next few wars.
17:20 I like to think the green paint is some sort of coating that aids teh cloaking device which is why Romulan ships are also green & why Klingon ships during TOS who don't have cloaks are not green
@@Analog_Mind47 Hard to disagree. But Enterprise do not take place during Federation. And actual canon say nothing about what was before TOS. Even Daedalus was actually from DS9. Roddenberry already retconed TOS with the TMP movies. We should look on the series more as movie adaptation of those events, then what actually did happen back then.
I absolutely love it when channels with radically different content reference each other!! The fact that SC.I and Venom both know about the Animarchy and Drachinifel special makes me so happy!!!
"Experience ... Bij ..." -- But it's just a slide show detailing the entire history of Design Proposals, Design Changes, Funding Allocation Requests, and Project Oversight Notes for the B-10 project.
@@Sephiroth144 Not if you pay attention. Empire at the time was still going through it feudal period and was deeply divided. In actual canon Empire reunited only as result of Four Year War. Bringing unified style we do see later. I only say that they could do it slightly better. On Federation side Vulcans operated 700 meter D'Kyr even during times of Archer. Earth was using 400 meters Yorktown during Romulan war and later 550 meter Proxima. And fun fact Discovery use the exact same design style known as Phase 2 and represented by Cheyenne class (what in fact was described as super old in TNG). When original series was made. People only assume that Constitution has average size and Excelsior is large. Even if Beta canon sources were claiming otherwise. I remind that when TOS series take place. Actually entire Starfleet is already refitted into TMP style. Enterprise was in fact described as extremely old. So TOS ironically do not take place during TOS period.
@@TheRezro We had Klingon looking ship in Enterprise and TOS; a general design philosophy. Then we see the Jach, 'etlh, DaSpu', Batlh, and especially the "Batwing" ships, and they look completely out of left field- ESPECIALLY since we know the D-7 is coming soon (in TOS- and also later in Discovery). The Qoj/Veqlargh and the Sarcophagus ship look kinda Klingon if you squint hard enough, but then the Sech comes around and you give up.
@8:35 - assuming two torpedoes with equal acceleration capabilities: the one with a higher launch speed will have a narrower cone of maneuverability (all places it could possibly steer to), but the target will likewise have a correspondingly smaller maneuvering area that it can reach before the torpedo arrives. If we assume torpedo and target are equally maneuverable, then a starship can eventually outmaneuver a slow-launched torpedo by forcing it to use all of its fuel turning to chase it. A torpedo fired with a higher speed can close the intercept before it runs out of fuel.
Also, the bespoke production applies. From basically Gloire All the way up to Dunkerque and Strasbourg, and to a lesser extent Jean Bart and Richelieu (not including the refit of Richelieu in 1943), French Industry seemed to have a complete aversion to building ships supposedly in the same class to the same spec. Each ship was basically unique.
If only we could see Negh'Vars clashing against the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought. But that's why I love the Klingons, they love to make big and slow ships with lots of guns and torpedo tubes. But I really want to see a Klingon build a B-10 in the 24th century for the heck of it. Also the STD Sarcophagus Ship makes the B-10 look very beautiful.
Did you mean to say D-10 because if so that would truly be a very cool looking Klingon battle ship with its sleek low profile looking design from FASA indeed!.
@@stevenewman1393 I think D-10 would be rather outdated by the mid 24th century and for all intent and purpose I think the Negh'Vars are the 24th century equivalent for the 23rd century D-10, just like how we get to see the Vor'chas eventually displacing the D-7 refits/K't'ingas which were showing their age by the time of the dominon war.
@RocketHarry865 Yes but you still though truly have to like the nice sleek siloet of the Klingon D'10 Heavy Cruiser even though it's a 23rd century design!👌.
I always viewed Klingons as raiders, therfore they prefer fast maneuverable ships. I can see the the battleship being the flagship of a House leader. When a battleship shows up, as the core of a large fleet. When they show up, they are not intended to fight a fleet battle, but rather to dominate a defeated planet. Should a battleship and its fleet be engaged in space, they serve as a base of fire while its escorts maneuver around it. On can think of it as a damage sponge as its "escorts take pot shots at the attacking ships as it goes in for a shot. Armor adds mass, which requires more energy to accelerate. Shields does not add mass so shields allows the ship to bemore nimble. Of course, you have less power going to the engine since it is going to shields.
First five minutes: “Klingons and Romulans are NATURAL enemies! Like Klingons and Cardassians! Or Klingons and Humans! Or Klingons and OTHER Klingons! …Damn, Klingons, they RUINED Qo’noS!”
I watched with my dinner last night...why ? well i remember klingon battleships to be ugly and thought it be nice to see some art of them and your input. Well that was enjoyable and loved the lightheartness of it, maybe the most funny of the startrek videos I seen on youtube... so thank you for making my dinner a lovely time with many a smile on my face...
Since the 90s I've been waiting for a Star Trek that follows a star fleet officer who is serving on a Klingon vessel. It just seems like endless possibilities for great writing are on offer with that concept.
If you haven't already done one, I'd really like to see a video detailing the Klingon/Romulan collaboration ships during their brief alliance, and the ships that evolved from that.
Had to struggle thru this one Mike. Lots of good info here, no doubt. But this vid wasn’t what I expected from this channel. Stuff happens. I understand why you would do something like this. Keep up the work mate. I Love the channel. I send folks here every chance I get.
When considering the ships the Klingons used. don't forget the Klingon Empire also would use ships from their member worlds as well. Similar to the Federation. They uaed , Tellarite, Vulcan and others.
I'd say that another reason why certain designs stick around well past the point of diminishing returns is the accumulated glory of that class. The D7s and Bird of Prey have accumulated decades of glory and accolades - to suggest that they're no longer worthy would be dishonorable.
I absolutely love both of your channels. Especially his episode on the Nova class Battlestar..... Now that is a Battlestar, I don't believe that at least a few of them did survive the fall of the 12 Colonies and survive.
A note on Klingon ship colors. There was an idea for the game Klingon Academy (which was from the era of full motion video featuring real actors like Christopher Plummer as Chang, and David Warner as Chancellor Gorkon) was the game's premise around a Klingon Civil War to see who would be the next Chancellor (spoiler, Chang and Gorkon win with your help). The idea was to have a Green vs Gray faction warfare, like the American Civil War Blue vs Gray. The Greens would win. Unfortunately, the limits of computers at the time didn't allow for this, so they went with green for everything.
The reason for an overall preference for smaller ships like the Bird of Prey is simple: there is more room for individual glory that way. But when they go big, they _really_ go big.
Hey hey now I love me some Starfleet battles I spent hours and I mean hours playing Starfleet battles in the design shifts for that very same pain and paperwork game
You overlook a very important job for the light disrupters. The captain used them to tell the rest of the ship what to fire out in case comms go down and the engineering crew have already boarded an enemy ship
when you have a feudalistic society that prioritizes warrior macho nonsense, unsurprisingly this leads to a society that is weaker in terms of industrial capability, scientific advancement and engineering skill. Thus this leads to a society with limited capability to actually build larger more complex ships.
That and it’s a bit of an extension of their ideas on assassins. As far as they’re concerned, if you’re dumb enough to go somewhere you’ll get fried by an assassin’s disruptor or so weak you can’t fight off a dagger, you probably deserved it. Scale that up from a single Klingon to a starship and you get the two main branches of their ship design.
@@laisphinto6372 Rome was fairly unified for the first few hundred years of it's existence (they started their decline with internal squabbling) and was quite successful in its conquests. The Klingon Empire had neither of those advantages.
@@laisphinto6372 Rome wasn't a feudalistic society that prioritized warrior culture at the expense of everything else. Rome actually values the sciences and engineering, and placed importance on them. But even more importantly Rome existed in a technologically vastly simpler time, where the most technologically complex weapon was a ballista. Keeping an industrial society, let alone a space faring society functional requires a lot more than just warriors. you absolutely need skilled workers, engineers, scientists and other highly skilled professions to keep a industrial society functional, and even more so with a space faring one.
They do have scientists- Kurak, from TNG, is considered one of the best warp field specialists in the quadrant. If you encounter a Starfleet ship, you'll meet a swath of people with diverse skillsets, because of their diverse mission profile. Encounter a Klingon ship, you're only meeting Klingon jarheads.
I can imagine when a Klingon adolescent fantasizes of having super powers. He is standing outside at the bow of a ship, swinging his bat'leth, deflecting phaser shots. He then goes on splitting hulls in twain as if he was an anime super samurai, maybe even jumping from ship to ship slicing them up as if they were fruit. He then jumps back on top of his ship while the rest of the crew cheers him on and he bellows a laugh that can be heard systems away. All this while he is fully exposed to vacuum as if it was nothing.
in starfleet battles , most klingon ships had detachable booms much like the saucer section on federation ships. for the kligons its half life boat half half prison ship as the majority of their crews were made up of subject races they didn't trust and mutiny was always possible, the kiligon officers were based at the front of the ship. Starfeet battles is still the best star trek tabletop game out there
The Empire goes through phases of having large lumbering battle wagons and smaller nimble strike craft depending on the state of the empire. Whether there's unity among the great houses or not or they are busy fighting among themselves.
I would consider the d6 amd d7/t K'tanga be light battle ships on cruiser bodies with battle ship fire power to match the fire power heavy consitution class also known to klingons as federation battle cruiser 2285
What you described would be a battlecruiser. A ship that's roughly cruiser sized with cruiser level armor but armed with battleship caliber guns of its time. In theory it would outgun anything in its weight class like other cruisers but outrun heavier ships like actual battleships.
Some of those ships like the slow ship and the Fat boy were for planetary conquest , the belly mount heavy disruptor is for shooting the ground , the "step" is for troop deployment. The light disruptors are for AA defense , anti missile . Fat boy is a command ship with a detachable command post for setting up a fortress on a planet or it could drop off troops , evacuate Klingons, it would also likely be the ship hauling loot from battles.
If @scienceinsanity6927 gets some angry Klingons rolling up he'll just have to make peace with the clans so they can show who's honor-bound warrior society is best. ( The Society of course ;) )
@1:09:10 - this is also why real life naval flagships have a flag bridge separate from the ship's bridge. Admirals need to focus on commanding the fleet, not get distracted doing the captain's job.
That was a fascinating look into the world of Klingon starship design philosophy! Which, the fact that that sentence has a chance to exist I think is a really cool thing all by itself. :D Seeing the two of you talking like this about suck detailed intricacies of sci fi design makes me jealous; I design starships myself, and would love to have this kind of conversation about them with someone who thinks this way! I want to know if my starships are pretty cool, or absolutely awful and terrible. :P
Lack of economic capacity to build many of them Lack of technological development (propulsion in particular) to produce a ship that can fit into existing fleet formations
In the Starfleet Battles universe, the B10 was built, and it got a few carrier and space control ship variants. The upgraded B11 however, was never built in this universe.
Yeah, slight correction concerning Starfleet Battles, they had access to the Original Series, the cartoon, as well as the unreleased drafts for Phase II which was never aired, but eventually morphed into the motion picture. Phase II had a refitted Connie which sort of but not quite looked like the motion picture one. That became the basis of their so called X-ships (a new generation of ships with upgraded tech).
Between DS9 and Disco, they’re at their most effective when they unleash swarms of raiders behind enemy lines to destroy infrastructure. Fleet engagements seem to stress envelopment attacks; smaller vessels that hit hard and move quick are incentivised.
1:02:25 “Why do you think a Klingon battleship needs multiple bridges?” Obviously, it’s so that if there’s ever a mutiny and the ship needs to separate into multiple hulls, both hulls have a command section to fight with.
34:25 ... PLEASE tell me this is in STO. Probably not - closest is probably that 3-set t5 cruiser (+t6 counterparts) with the detachable folded wing BoP. And I already have those. I'd give it the glowing pink vanity shield, give it to my Orion character and pretty much exclusively fly the bridge around. 😄
has there ever been an answer to why there were two different nacelles for the starfleet TOS ships? one minute they have bulbs on the back end and others have what looks like thrust holes on the back. just curious.
I think the Vor'cha is just crying at the corner for not getting any attention🥺 Well, at least the Klingon's try out different things, I'll give them that, nice video.☺
About the torpedo: in real newtonian physics a torpedo, that can outrun and outaccelerate you will hit you. There are no "evasive maneuvers" in space. So shooting them in the direction of the target to close the gap faster is a fantastic idea.
34:36 In "Star Fleet Battles" the Klingons have slaves. So in the event of slave uprisings, you can escape (and turn the ca-front around and crush the rebels).
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very well executed and informatively explained in every detail way shape and form provided on this format and subject matter on the various different types of Klingon Battle ships and their firepower sheild strengths and enginepower and the various abilities and duties required of them according to their design specifications, Any ways a very great job well done by you guys indeed!👌.
I always interpreted the two Neg'Var variants as Gowron's was a unique ship with the siege guns while the production model lacked them so no one would be able to challenge him.
If you want to fit more guns on a ship, you need more size, that's basic physics. You can only fit so much onto a certain sized ship, and once youi try to fit more, you have to give something else up, whether that be engine power, protection, reliability, ect ect. More likely its because Klingon society being so obsessed with warrior culture means a state with weaker industry, engineering capability and R&D, leading to less capability to build effective battleships and other large capital ships.
I laughed and laughed at the B-10 until the artwork of the B-10 came around at 31:58 That thing in most photos can be extremely derpy, but in the right angle in a scene, its downright terrifying.
At the time of the first and last voyage of the Bismarck, she could be considered the mightiest battleship of the world. Yes, she knocked out her own radar and had a lot of other flaws, but that was not known to the allies at that time.
(Though ablative armor is different from reactive armor: Reactive makes a counter-explosion to dissipate the force away, ablative just burns itself up or otherwise is sacrificial as described.)
I absolutely love the Vor'cha class battle cruiser. Just something about the head of the ship, reminds me of the head of a soldier ant. Very insect like.
to be fair about the danger of sympathetic detonation of torpedoes in a multishot launcher, if one goes of in the tube its not going to matter if it sets the others off, all that will do is make the expanding plasma cloud glow brighter
Maybe the detachable part of the "Fatman" is perhaps a troop lander? In space, there would be no air resistance and no gravity around the ships, so size or shape would mean nothing to speed, i.e., the Borg ships.
Those small disruptors are clearly Anti-pidgeon weapons, because if you're entering atmosphere to throw a dishonourable p'tahk overboard, you don't want any pidgeons to poop on your ship. That would dishonour the entire vessel.
Your right, the B-10 comes from Steven V. Cole's Starfleet Battles. It was designed to be very large and very ridiculous and over the top. Mr. Cole said that the B-10 had a Klingon Polo field among its recreational facilities. In SFB's lore, 4 B10s were completed.
how your able to do grape torpedoes is the torpedoes can be set so they wont blow up until after they leave the ship as such they could smack each other without worry or id like to think so
Where am I? How did i get here? This isn't my normal garbage dump, and this isn't the normal content slave i make videos with. Something is very wrong, I feel a sense of forthcoming respectable effort and high quality content.
Help, I'm lost and afraid.
You are the brick fetishist who was wrong about cylon basestars.
@@robertkalinic335 Do i *want* to know what thats supposed to mean?
@@yoschiannik8438 All depends on how much you want to stare into the abyss. (I have no fucking idea what he's talking about either I'm just curious)
@@Mrs.Grave5433 I refer to Battlestars from the Battlestar galactica series as "Giant brick shithouses", And i like them more than i like the cylon basestar. That's the context.
If only drach could join you guys
"Why Are Klingon Battleships so Insane?"
Bloodwine, SO MUCH Bloodwine.
NOBODY GETS BETWEEN ME AND THE, BLOOD WINE~ The Sisko.
actually , the star trek game from 1999 , where you command a bridge , "star fleet academy "
i think , correct me if im wrong , it had a klingon heavy cruiser that could field 16 high power disrupters , allowing never ending disrupter fire on the target. the game suffered from an exploit , using a sense controller allowed you to fly the enterprise as if it was a fighter jet ,
and by hoding the controller top down and allowiing a mobile wrist you could keep a manual lock in the cross hairs all day long , IT made the game too easy ,
Teenage mutant ninja Klingons, teenage mutant ninja Klingons, warriors in a half shell, qapla!
Hahahaha! Nice!
Lmfao!
🖖🤣👍!.
Could not help but sing this on key
Nearly didn't click this video due to the crappy home made non canon thumbnail. But you comment popped up and made mea actually which is unusual. For that I salute your sir. Thank-you. Sick of all these fucktards mak8ng up their own ships in started. Yaegar carap being my most hated. Who creat3d that so I can remove them from Existence.
When a KLINGON says "That's a bit excessive" That's when you know you have reached the point of overkill
But over kill is the best kill! If I don't hit my enemy so hard his ancestors felt it, did I really hit him at all?
"Puny Klin-uns! Ev'ry body knows ders no such fing and too much Dakka!" - Random Ork
In case anyone's wondering, I made the 3D model of the Klingon B10 battleship used in the thumbnail of this video. I made it for ADB's Starfleet Battles and Federation Commander games back when I used to work for them.
I think you did a fantastic job. 👍💪
Nice to see an old face from the heyday of SFC
I played a lot of SFB back in the day, and I remember that model well!
The Klingons not having battleships is easily answered, it's because they are French and have proscribed to "Jeune Ecole". Followers of Drachinifel are probably chuckling now.
Klingons at least follow a cruiser doctrine. The faction that is more French is the Romulans which do use Jeune Ecole mixed with the fleet submarine doctrine.
_Jeune École,_ or when French hotels went to sea.
@@barrybend7189During the TOS era, yes. From what we see at ST Picard, they do it again. But in the TNG era their ships were the largest and most powerful units. The D‘deridex class warbird is said to be 1400 m long - twice as long as the Galaxy class ship, which already was a theme park in space. I really wonder what they did with all that internal volume. And I also think that SF authors do not really consider the relationship between length, mass and volume and just say „Ah, same length, then it’s the same strength, let‘s make it twice as long“
Google D‘deridex vs Galaxy to find overlaying images to see how crazy this is. The Warbird is aprox. 10 times as heavy and 10 times as big in volume terms.
Still, this is the canon as it is, so you must consider this ship to be a real battleship. It certainly is not a Jeune Ecole style small specialized ship.
now I'm going to imagine the Klingons being French....I think its an improvement < on Discovery anyway>
I immediately thought of Drach discussing the French doctrine and how Japanese had adopted it until the battle of the Yalu river showed them how two near obsolete German build monitors were able to punch well above their weight against the newer but smaller and more numerous Japanese fleet ships. The IJN still won an overwhelming victory, but the lesson was not lost on them.
With the emphasis on personal honor and glory large numbers of smaller ships would increase the possibility of individuals gaining recognition. Smaller crews would make it easier for a young warrior to catch the notice of a senior officer.
Ideally Battleships are Led by Veteran Warriors that are older and less glory hunting unfortuanly Most klingon warriors regardless of never Stop being thirsty for HONOR!!!
@@laisphinto6372 I'd expect them to be the commands for senior figures within a great house, people who need to maintain their honor by going to war but are a bit too important to put directly in harms way. Leave that to younger members of the house yet to prove themselves.
@@MediumRareOpinions yeah but you got martok rolling in a bird of prey?
@@rotm4447 true but isn't Martok himself "lowborn" and married into the noble house.
Perhaps he is accustomed to and prefers a more hands on command of a smaller vessel?
They probably just like space pirating, less crap to split with a smaller crew.
1:04:00 The dual bridges for ship and fleet commanders is a real world separation as well. US Navy aircraft carriers have two bridges one level apart in the island. The Captain of the ship is on one, the navigation bridge, and the Task Force commander, an admiral, is on the flag bridge.
Over an hour long for this video. Neat to see SC.I here.
And yeah, this video was a rollercoaster on the history of Klingon Battleships.
More of these semi-casual collab videos would be neat to see.
*Glory to you, and your house!*
The 2 bridges thing is actually a very common thing for large ships. All 4 Iowas had flag bridges per example. And in the Japanese fleet, the Captain used to go down with the ship, while the admiral transferred his flag to another ship. Also, Aircraft carriers usually have 3 bridges. One for the Admiral, one for ship operations and one for flight operations.
How we got thru this entire episode and no one said the word: ‘KILI-CAMS’ is beyond me. 200,000 KILI-CAMS! 75,000 KILI-CAMS! 50,000 KILI-CAMS!
It's "kellikams"
The Bismarcks were designed to go against other battleships, but yeah, the B10s are practically the Deutschlands and the Scharnhorsts to a extent.
FUN FACT: A traditional ingredient used as a fining agent used in wine-making was ox blood, added as a liquid or powdered as the young wine settled after fermentation. Defibrinated ox blood contains 70 g/l active fining proteins and is used to reduce tannins in young reds. Typical dosages are 0.15-0.25 g/l for red wines. Preparation involves mixing the ox blood in cold water and leaving to swell (dissolution of albumins helped by adding potassium bicarbonate), then the blood mixture is added to the young red wine, stirred, and left to settle. Fining with blood is fairly rapid. Once it settles and clears, the fined wine at the top is poured off and the heavier elements at the bottom are discarded. This blood-fining process is banned now because of mad-cow disease. In my head cannon, the Klingons never had a problem like mad-cow disease (or never cared) and still continue the practice using whatever passes for grapes (or maybe grapes were a non-native species introduced to Qo'noS through trade?) and the blood of targs or something as the fining agent. Worf likes his wine "very young and very sweet", like a Moscato.
So dayum, a fellow Leaf and Venom doing a d e e p ol dive on Klingon Tech. I liked this, a lot. Its great to see a real shipbuilder's eye upon something as vast as klingon design philosophy. And I love it. Honestly, do more. Do one for every race!!!!!! MOAR!!!!!!
(ps, Panic says Merci
Thanks to Science Insanity for joining me on this cursed journey.
Make sure to check out his channel www.youtube.com/@scienceinsanity6927
So when is the super collab with you, Drach, Animarchy, and SC.I?
I love how the B-10 just causes a small breakdown.
Real-time update: the Shellback gets even worse.
Imagine a Klingon Space Tugboat that it warp capable and able to tow the B-10 to the nearest spacedock.
What if all Klingon ships are an abstract representation of a Klingon Phallus with wings. This is now my head canon.
The main reason for the few battleships could be due to how they are structured.
As a nobility based militia, the houses pay for the majority of the species military.
Keeps taxes down, but each house would be hard pressed to pay for their own battleship for day to day purposes.
The standing military that the government controls is also small, and need to focus on more ships for patrol and security, and battleships are a black hole for fundings. So when they get the itch to build one, it has to be good for long term use, and for the next few wars.
17:20 I like to think the green paint is some sort of coating that aids teh cloaking device which is why Romulan ships are also green & why Klingon ships during TOS who don't have cloaks are not green
Klingon's did use green pain before and after that.
Personally I think that TOS style should be treated with sprinkle of distance.
@TheRezro as much as I love Enterprise, I definitely believe alot was sacrificed in the name of Brand Recognition rather than conforming to cannon
@@Analog_Mind47 Hard to disagree. But Enterprise do not take place during Federation. And actual canon say nothing about what was before TOS. Even Daedalus was actually from DS9. Roddenberry already retconed TOS with the TMP movies. We should look on the series more as movie adaptation of those events, then what actually did happen back then.
"fly me closer i want to hit them with my Batleth" sounds like something a klingon would unironically say
@@michaelmurdock4607 i could see Klingons doing that.
Ahhhh a fellow 40k fan.
I absolutely love it when channels with radically different content reference each other!! The fact that SC.I and Venom both know about the Animarchy and Drachinifel special makes me so happy!!!
"Experience ... Bij ..." -- But it's just a slide show detailing the entire history of Design Proposals, Design Changes, Funding Allocation Requests, and Project Oversight Notes for the B-10 project.
We're not talking about the crazy Discovery Klingon ships...?
GOOD- cuz throwing out all of the design lineage was actual insanity.
But was it... *Science* Insanity? Eh? Ehhh?
Discovery ships are the thing exactly before debated period.
@@TheRezro Discovery ships completely ignore the design lineage established; very few of the 1st Season Klingon ships look remotely Klingon.
@@Sephiroth144 Not if you pay attention. Empire at the time was still going through it feudal period and was deeply divided. In actual canon Empire reunited only as result of Four Year War. Bringing unified style we do see later. I only say that they could do it slightly better.
On Federation side Vulcans operated 700 meter D'Kyr even during times of Archer. Earth was using 400 meters Yorktown during Romulan war and later 550 meter Proxima. And fun fact Discovery use the exact same design style known as Phase 2 and represented by Cheyenne class (what in fact was described as super old in TNG).
When original series was made. People only assume that Constitution has average size and Excelsior is large. Even if Beta canon sources were claiming otherwise. I remind that when TOS series take place. Actually entire Starfleet is already refitted into TMP style. Enterprise was in fact described as extremely old. So TOS ironically do not take place during TOS period.
@@TheRezro We had Klingon looking ship in Enterprise and TOS; a general design philosophy. Then we see the Jach, 'etlh, DaSpu', Batlh, and especially the "Batwing" ships, and they look completely out of left field- ESPECIALLY since we know the D-7 is coming soon (in TOS- and also later in Discovery). The Qoj/Veqlargh and the Sarcophagus ship look kinda Klingon if you squint hard enough, but then the Sech comes around and you give up.
@8:35 - assuming two torpedoes with equal acceleration capabilities: the one with a higher launch speed will have a narrower cone of maneuverability (all places it could possibly steer to), but the target will likewise have a correspondingly smaller maneuvering area that it can reach before the torpedo arrives.
If we assume torpedo and target are equally maneuverable, then a starship can eventually outmaneuver a slow-launched torpedo by forcing it to use all of its fuel turning to chase it. A torpedo fired with a higher speed can close the intercept before it runs out of fuel.
Holy shit, the Klingon navy is just the Victorian French Navy.
In what way?
@@venomgeekmedia9886 mainly comprised of smaller more maneuverable vessels while having really odd battleships.
@@kommandantgalileo make sense. I really want to dive into more of the 19th century naval arms race.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 great topic to be invested in.
Also, the bespoke production applies. From basically Gloire All the way up to Dunkerque and Strasbourg, and to a lesser extent Jean Bart and Richelieu (not including the refit of Richelieu in 1943), French Industry seemed to have a complete aversion to building ships supposedly in the same class to the same spec. Each ship was basically unique.
Loved this video and both your collaborations with Science Insanity!
Having played a lot of Starfleet Battles, I was happy to see the B-10. 👍💪👊
If only we could see Negh'Vars clashing against the Jem'Hadar Dreadnought. But that's why I love the Klingons, they love to make big and slow ships with lots of guns and torpedo tubes. But I really want to see a Klingon build a B-10 in the 24th century for the heck of it. Also the STD Sarcophagus Ship makes the B-10 look very beautiful.
Did you mean to say D-10 because if so that would truly be a very cool looking Klingon battle ship with its sleek low profile looking design from FASA indeed!.
While the Jem'Hadar are fighting smaller Klingon ships, those siege guns hit the fuel tanks.
@@stevenewman1393 I think D-10 would be rather outdated by the mid 24th century and for all intent and purpose I think the Negh'Vars are the 24th century equivalent for the 23rd century D-10, just like how we get to see the Vor'chas eventually displacing the D-7 refits/K't'ingas which were showing their age by the time of the dominon war.
@RocketHarry865 Yes but you still though truly have to like the nice sleek siloet of the Klingon D'10 Heavy Cruiser even though it's a 23rd century design!👌.
I always viewed Klingons as raiders, therfore they prefer fast maneuverable ships. I can see the the battleship being the flagship of a House leader. When a battleship shows up, as the core of a large fleet. When they show up, they are not intended to fight a fleet battle, but rather to dominate a defeated planet. Should a battleship and its fleet be engaged in space, they serve as a base of fire while its escorts maneuver around it. On can think of it as a damage sponge as its "escorts take pot shots at the attacking ships as it goes in for a shot.
Armor adds mass, which requires more energy to accelerate. Shields does not add mass so shields allows the ship to bemore nimble. Of course, you have less power going to the engine since it is going to shields.
First five minutes: “Klingons and Romulans are NATURAL enemies! Like Klingons and Cardassians! Or Klingons and Humans! Or Klingons and OTHER Klingons! …Damn, Klingons, they RUINED Qo’noS!”
“You Klingons sure are a contentious lot.”
@@mattwho81 “YOU just made an enemy for LIFE!” *stabs D’ktagh into table*
Angry Klingons line up behind me
Smug Romulans, point and laugh from under Cloak
@@weldonwin opportunistic ferengi, sellling bloodwine to those in line
2 of my favorite "small" ceators in 1 video..... good day!!
This video is as much fun to watch as the Klingon designs are insane: Very much!
I watched with my dinner last night...why ? well i remember klingon battleships to be ugly and thought it be nice to see some art of them and your input. Well that was enjoyable and loved the lightheartness of it, maybe the most funny of the startrek videos I seen on youtube... so thank you for making my dinner a lovely time with many a smile on my face...
Since the 90s I've been waiting for a Star Trek that follows a star fleet officer who is serving on a Klingon vessel. It just seems like endless possibilities for great writing are on offer with that concept.
If you haven't already done one, I'd really like to see a video detailing the Klingon/Romulan collaboration ships during their brief alliance, and the ships that evolved from that.
So glad you collabed with science insanity! Great video. Do it again
The B-10 battleship is “Four D-7s in a trench coat”
Had to struggle thru this one Mike.
Lots of good info here, no doubt.
But this vid wasn’t what I expected from this channel.
Stuff happens.
I understand why you would do something like this.
Keep up the work mate.
I Love the channel. I send folks here every chance I get.
When considering the ships the Klingons used. don't forget the Klingon Empire also would use ships from their member worlds as well. Similar to the Federation. They uaed , Tellarite, Vulcan and others.
I'd say that another reason why certain designs stick around well past the point of diminishing returns is the accumulated glory of that class. The D7s and Bird of Prey have accumulated decades of glory and accolades - to suggest that they're no longer worthy would be dishonorable.
Showing up in the biggest ship around and winning isn't honorable! Showing up in the SMALLEST ship around and winning, now that's what gets you songs!
"They massacred my boy", loved it.
the colab i never knew i wanted
I knew you seemed familar science insanity...i saw one of your carrier videos...nice to see you again
I absolutely love both of your channels. Especially his episode on the Nova class Battlestar..... Now that is a Battlestar, I don't believe that at least a few of them did survive the fall of the 12 Colonies and survive.
A note on Klingon ship colors. There was an idea for the game Klingon Academy (which was from the era of full motion video featuring real actors like Christopher Plummer as Chang, and David Warner as Chancellor Gorkon) was the game's premise around a Klingon Civil War to see who would be the next Chancellor (spoiler, Chang and Gorkon win with your help). The idea was to have a Green vs Gray faction warfare, like the American Civil War Blue vs Gray. The Greens would win. Unfortunately, the limits of computers at the time didn't allow for this, so they went with green for everything.
The reason for an overall preference for smaller ships like the Bird of Prey is simple: there is more room for individual glory that way. But when they go big, they _really_ go big.
Hey hey now I love me some Starfleet battles I spent hours and I mean hours playing Starfleet battles in the design shifts for that very same pain and paperwork game
You overlook a very important job for the light disrupters. The captain used them to tell the rest of the ship what to fire out in case comms go down and the engineering crew have already boarded an enemy ship
when you have a feudalistic society that prioritizes warrior macho nonsense, unsurprisingly this leads to a society that is weaker in terms of industrial capability, scientific advancement and engineering skill. Thus this leads to a society with limited capability to actually build larger more complex ships.
That and it’s a bit of an extension of their ideas on assassins. As far as they’re concerned, if you’re dumb enough to go somewhere you’ll get fried by an assassin’s disruptor or so weak you can’t fight off a dagger, you probably deserved it.
Scale that up from a single Klingon to a starship and you get the two main branches of their ship design.
How do you explain rome then?
@@laisphinto6372 Rome was fairly unified for the first few hundred years of it's existence (they started their decline with internal squabbling) and was quite successful in its conquests. The Klingon Empire had neither of those advantages.
@@laisphinto6372 Rome wasn't a feudalistic society that prioritized warrior culture at the expense of everything else. Rome actually values the sciences and engineering, and placed importance on them.
But even more importantly Rome existed in a technologically vastly simpler time, where the most technologically complex weapon was a ballista. Keeping an industrial society, let alone a space faring society functional requires a lot more than just warriors. you absolutely need skilled workers, engineers, scientists and other highly skilled professions to keep a industrial society functional, and even more so with a space faring one.
They do have scientists- Kurak, from TNG, is considered one of the best warp field specialists in the quadrant.
If you encounter a Starfleet ship, you'll meet a swath of people with diverse skillsets, because of their diverse mission profile.
Encounter a Klingon ship, you're only meeting Klingon jarheads.
Cheers, gents..
I can imagine when a Klingon adolescent fantasizes of having super powers. He is standing outside at the bow of a ship, swinging his bat'leth, deflecting phaser shots. He then goes on splitting hulls in twain as if he was an anime super samurai, maybe even jumping from ship to ship slicing them up as if they were fruit. He then jumps back on top of his ship while the rest of the crew cheers him on and he bellows a laugh that can be heard systems away. All this while he is fully exposed to vacuum as if it was nothing.
isnt that The Other Franchise?
@@andyf4292 Maybe. lol
"Fly me closer! I want to hit them with my Bat'leth..."
LMAO!
Great video.
in starfleet battles , most klingon ships had detachable booms much like the saucer section on federation ships. for the kligons its half life boat half half prison ship as the majority of their crews were made up of subject races they didn't trust and mutiny was always possible, the kiligon officers were based at the front of the ship. Starfeet battles is still the best star trek tabletop game out there
Oh, the response to the B-10 was hilarious.
The Empire goes through phases of having large lumbering battle wagons and smaller nimble strike craft depending on the state of the empire. Whether there's unity among the great houses or not or they are busy fighting among themselves.
I would consider the d6 amd d7/t
K'tanga be light battle ships on cruiser bodies with battle ship fire power to match the fire power heavy consitution class also known to klingons as federation battle cruiser 2285
What you described would be a battlecruiser. A ship that's roughly cruiser sized with cruiser level armor but armed with battleship caliber guns of its time. In theory it would outgun anything in its weight class like other cruisers but outrun heavier ships like actual battleships.
Some of those ships like the slow ship and the Fat boy were for planetary conquest , the belly mount heavy disruptor is for shooting the ground , the "step" is for troop deployment. The light disruptors are for AA defense , anti missile . Fat boy is a command ship with a detachable command post for setting up a fortress on a planet or it could drop off troops , evacuate Klingons, it would also likely be the ship hauling loot from battles.
The reason the negvar has 2 bridge, is so that when a mutiny occurs both sides have a base to fight from 😊
If @scienceinsanity6927 gets some angry Klingons rolling up he'll just have to make peace with the clans so they can show who's honor-bound warrior society is best. ( The Society of course ;) )
@1:09:10 - this is also why real life naval flagships have a flag bridge separate from the ship's bridge. Admirals need to focus on commanding the fleet, not get distracted doing the captain's job.
That was a fascinating look into the world of Klingon starship design philosophy! Which, the fact that that sentence has a chance to exist I think is a really cool thing all by itself. :D
Seeing the two of you talking like this about suck detailed intricacies of sci fi design makes me jealous; I design starships myself, and would love to have this kind of conversation about them with someone who thinks this way! I want to know if my starships are pretty cool, or absolutely awful and terrible. :P
Lack of economic capacity to build many of them
Lack of technological development (propulsion in particular) to produce a ship that can fit into existing fleet formations
Am I the only one hoping they do more videos together? This is one great video.
on the other hand the A.F.S. Khitomer Battlecruiser is a beautyful sight to behold.
In the Starfleet Battles universe, the B10 was built, and it got a few carrier and space control ship variants. The upgraded B11 however, was never built in this universe.
Yeah, slight correction concerning Starfleet Battles, they had access to the Original Series, the cartoon, as well as the unreleased drafts for Phase II which was never aired, but eventually morphed into the motion picture. Phase II had a refitted Connie which sort of but not quite looked like the motion picture one. That became the basis of their so called X-ships (a new generation of ships with upgraded tech).
Between DS9 and Disco, they’re at their most effective when they unleash swarms of raiders behind enemy lines to destroy infrastructure. Fleet engagements seem to stress envelopment attacks; smaller vessels that hit hard and move quick are incentivised.
1:02:25 “Why do you think a Klingon battleship needs multiple bridges?”
Obviously, it’s so that if there’s ever a mutiny and the ship needs to separate into multiple hulls, both hulls have a command section to fight with.
34:25 ... PLEASE tell me this is in STO. Probably not - closest is probably that 3-set t5 cruiser (+t6 counterparts) with the detachable folded wing BoP. And I already have those.
I'd give it the glowing pink vanity shield, give it to my Orion character and pretty much exclusively fly the bridge around. 😄
has there ever been an answer to why there were two different nacelles for the starfleet TOS ships? one minute they have bulbs on the back end and others have what looks like thrust holes on the back. just curious.
Actually in SFB lore the Klingons DID build the B-10, several in fact (in various finished states).
I hope you both can make a similar video about federation ships.
I think the Vor'cha is just crying at the corner for not getting any attention🥺
Well, at least the Klingon's try out different things, I'll give them that, nice video.☺
About the torpedo: in real newtonian physics a torpedo, that can outrun and outaccelerate you will hit you. There are no "evasive maneuvers" in space. So shooting them in the direction of the target to close the gap faster is a fantastic idea.
34:36 In "Star Fleet Battles" the Klingons have slaves. So in the event of slave uprisings, you can escape (and turn the ca-front around and crush the rebels).
The Korvat looks to have the _proportions_ of a Starfleet Battles E-5 or F-6, upscaled and up-armed to battleship level.
15:15 Maybe it's stupid, but it's HONORABLE AND GLORIOUS!
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely well done and very well executed and informatively explained in every detail way shape and form provided on this format and subject matter on the various different types of Klingon Battle ships and their firepower sheild strengths and enginepower and the various abilities and duties required of them according to their design specifications, Any ways a very great job well done by you guys indeed!👌.
Those screenshots with 2D top-perspective space ships and battles... what game are they from?
I make those myself
I always interpreted the two Neg'Var variants as Gowron's was a unique ship with the siege guns while the production model lacked them so no one would be able to challenge him.
Because Klingons love ships with more guns less size.
If you want to fit more guns on a ship, you need more size, that's basic physics. You can only fit so much onto a certain sized ship, and once youi try to fit more, you have to give something else up, whether that be engine power, protection, reliability, ect ect.
More likely its because Klingon society being so obsessed with warrior culture means a state with weaker industry, engineering capability and R&D, leading to less capability to build effective battleships and other large capital ships.
@@ryuukeisscifiproductions1818these are the Klingons, they probably think the Doomsday Machine is the peak of starship design
@@Ty-yt3ljactually most Klingons ( baring Bvat) absolutely detest the Doomsday machine.
@@barrybend7189How would you know that Klingons abhor the Doomsday Machine? And why would they despise it so much?
@@barrybend7189How would you know that Klingons detested the Doomsday Machine? And why would they abhor it?
"if you are going slow this just sounds like a skill issue" 🤣
I laughed and laughed at the B-10 until the artwork of the B-10 came around at 31:58
That thing in most photos can be extremely derpy, but in the right angle in a scene, its downright terrifying.
At the time of the first and last voyage of the Bismarck, she could be considered the mightiest battleship of the world. Yes, she knocked out her own radar and had a lot of other flaws, but that was not known to the allies at that time.
(Though ablative armor is different from reactive armor: Reactive makes a counter-explosion to dissipate the force away, ablative just burns itself up or otherwise is sacrificial as described.)
I absolutely love the Vor'cha class battle cruiser. Just something about the head of the ship, reminds me of the head of a soldier ant. Very insect like.
You know the creator actually intended it to have different modular heads including a hammerhead, and a more D7esque polygon
to be fair about the danger of sympathetic detonation of torpedoes in a multishot launcher, if one goes of in the tube its not going to matter if it sets the others off, all that will do is make the expanding plasma cloud glow brighter
Ah the brotherhood bond is born. Let the galaxy burn
Maybe the detachable part of the "Fatman" is perhaps a troop lander? In space, there would be no air resistance and no gravity around the ships, so size or shape would mean nothing to speed, i.e., the Borg ships.
Those small disruptors are clearly Anti-pidgeon weapons, because if you're entering atmosphere to throw a dishonourable p'tahk overboard, you don't want any pidgeons to poop on your ship. That would dishonour the entire vessel.
please do more of these
The Proxima is glorious how dare you have at thee random guest HAVE AT THEE!!!
I wish sources were listed because Korvat class isn't showing up on Mem-Alpha or Beta
I linked it in the description
Your right, the B-10 comes from Steven V. Cole's Starfleet Battles. It was designed to be very large and very ridiculous and over the top. Mr. Cole said that the B-10 had a Klingon Polo field among its recreational facilities. In SFB's lore, 4 B10s were completed.
What about the Federation history Patton class Destroyer?
?? Thought the long neck was to separate the highly radioactive / dangerous (bad shielding) drive section from the crew section.
how your able to do grape torpedoes is the torpedoes can be set so they wont blow up until after they leave the ship as such they could smack each other without worry or id like to think so
Real mature guys. Fat Shaming the Klingon Battlefleet.