@@DarkLordofTheRizz ...calm down, Darth Nihilus or vitiate are obviously the most powerful. And how do you know the info about Nihilus taking a long time to consume a planet?
@@DarkLordofTheRizz Nihilus was litterally on the Ravager and got onto the surface later where he found Visas. And do not compare his drain to a normal one, it might take him some time but Traya trained him to drain an entire planet, it is not something that you can do with a regular force drain.
@@DarkLordofTheRizz to strengthen his hunger of course. Alright but now I will stop talking to you, and unfortunately for you, I will continue writing my fanfic about Nihilus.
I like his videos a lot but he could improve in power scaling,he is more green than Yoda.(just a joke pls) Still a GREAT channel to be informed about star wars facts
@UCH9DxGQylHp54k5R173-uIA Hey i mean thats how Theorys channel also started. Shit 70% of that channel is being a delusional fanboy who ignored facts and suc-ehh gave Anakin a good time
Valkorion: *lived for 1500 years with several different bodies* Palpatine: *A politician, Master of Mind-manipulation, One of if not the most dangerous lightsaber duelist* Nihilus: *C O N S U M P L A N E T*
Oh, I most certainly agree with your choice of words and placements, but you forgot one. My master, Darth Jar Jar, the true Supreme being of the Universe.
Jar Jar doesn't count because its more like he is the dark side of the force rather then him merely using it, with that much power I wouldn't even call him a person He'sa all powerful
Vitiate: *I drained the force energy of the entire Sith race* Nihilus: *I devoured all life from entire planets* Palpatine: I was a politician Vitiate & Nihilus: get away from us…
Vitiate didn't force drain the sith race idiot and also palpatine drained byss that had a population of trillions. Also vitiate needed a ritual and the help of others to drain planets
A dude out here complaining as if you insulted him directly or something lol. "I hAtE bEiNg pRoVeN rIgHt". Its a good video and it explains the character's stories and abilities properly for those that had this question (seen it on the comments a lot) or didn't know much of any of the 3 characters. Love your videos! Great work as always!
@@zzodysseuszz actually, Palpatine could do everything Nihilus could do and even better at some stuff, he once sucked the life of the planet Byss, he didn’t use it as frequently as Nihilus because “I don’t wish to rule an empire of dead men”
Vitiate is the true master of the force, both light and dark, because he didn't see himself as a sith, he saw himself as a God. Sidious wouldn't beat him, Vitiates patience and scheming would be Sidious undoing without him doing much. Because Sidious was a megalomaniac who wanted to control everyone, Vitiate just didn't want to die, so he wanted everyone to die. So he would let them fight and kill eachother, and when thats over he would just end the left.
Now I agree with vitiate being the most powerful. If I had to say my favorite between the three? It's going to Nihilus dudes a literal freaking terror in my eyes
Vitiate also repealed the ritual by consuming Ziost, a key Sith world, as a sign of ascending over jedi and Sith. And unlike Nihilus, he wasn't driven into literal slavery of his own hunger after both of these rituals.
@@Apeironization1 No he didn't. And idk if you know this but black holes >>>> supernovas. And Vitiate was only stronger because again he had tons of prep time, sith followers, and sith artifacts. Palpatine was creating multiple force storms concurrently, thousands of lightyears away, all by himself. To the point that the force itself was in agony, and he was threatening space-time.
@@bluekunt No not black holes, palpatine used wormholes to send wormholes thousands of light years away-that's what caused very tiny threat threat to space time, a very small worm holes that took out republic fleet, that's it, Naga Sadow took out many star systems with his supernova feat, faaaar more powerful and faaar more destructive than anything Palpatine has done-facts. Vitiate was powerful by nature faaar more powerful than all the ancient sith regardless of their feats.
@@Apeironization1 I like how you just ignored the fact that his force storms were literally tearing apart space-time. Idc what you say but supernova are below that. And you know why? I was being nice when I said they were black holes. Force storms are literally tearing holes into hyperspace. They're pretty much hyperspace-holes. And if you know anything about hyperspace, it's literally opening another dimension and either using it to transport people (like Luke) or to rip apart fleets and even planets. And if Palpatine truly wanted to, he could just create numerous force storms across solar systems to destroy the galaxy, but he wanted to rule it first. So no, Sadow isn't that strong. And Vitiate is NOWHERE near as strong. Don't ignore the fact that he needed tons of hope to do shit Palpatine could do all by himself, tenfold.
Vitiate is strongest between everyone. He was so powerful it’s insane. Ruling two empires over 1500 years, dominating countless minds and consuming entire planets without succumbing like Nihilus… it’s brilliant. 🖤
Palpatine ruled the entire galaxy through telepathy mind controlling the crownies of the empire from his palace. He drained planets to increase his powers and created force storms that could annihilate planets.
It should be noted vitiate came from the cut script for kotor 3 whose description talks about these "old" sith as far and above the powers of the previous sith lords you've fought. So from the basic premise of the sith emperor he eclipses nihilus and now this is a Palpatine or sidious debate.
It was probably the sith who mind controlled one of the most powerful sith of all time, palpatine, and used him to control the galaxy. It’s a shame he broke free and jar jar had to make Luke kill him.
Another question if anakin Skywalker had all of his limbs as And no injuries and fell to the dark side he would definitely go above them if he was a little more collected being able to dominate the son and daughter with the force
In a way Darth Vader deep down was stronger than Palpatine but his psychological issues always held his true power back.Yes he didnt have the potential of Anakin but he could still surpass the emperor just not as much as Anakin could. I am sure Palpatine knew it anyways,the Rise of Darth Vader novel makes it clear The fact that Anakin never truly died in Vader held him back,that sliver of light made all the difference. If by Lucas scaling Vader was an 8,Palpatine a 10 and full potential Anakin/Luke a 20 then i think Vader with no regrets about his sins,with no lingering Anakin and light/good in him,no love for Padme etc would be a 11 or 12.
I’m not sure about the “smartest”. Maybe the most powerful and manipulative, but vitiate lead empires for hundreds of years on and off, compared to palpatine who was only a ruler for lime25-30 years. Vitiates entity was around for 1500 years. Intelligence and knowledge goes to him, he was just more tactical and smarter in my opinion. Just had more knowledge and experience. I’d give palpatine the edge on actual raw powers though.
@@sdaftermath123 Being alive for 1500 years without conquering the galaxy shows that Vitiate is not that powerful and he relied on complex ritual to consume that planet... Sidious ruled the entire galaxy for 20 years and annihilated the jedi order. He consumed an entire planet without any complex ritual and discovered force storms that could wipe out planets.
Palpatine: insane force lightning and manipulation of the galaxy Vitiate: master of sith alchemy Nihlus: "oh death, won't you spare me over another year?"
You know most of vitiate power wasn’t organic he wasn’t born with that power unlike palpatine who was from birth that powerful vitiate used rituals to to empower his strength in the force and he did it a lot
Sidious can do what Vitiate can with Mind control etc as seen with Byss and he doesn't need prolonged rituals to sustain his power. He was confirmed as the most powerful sith ever and could fold space and destroy planets with force storm.
This is an example of a disconnect between the actual lore and what we see in expanded media. Palpatine is like the gm 2 from zeta gundum in that it is definitively better than the strongest machine of the first series, the gundam, but In all media it appears in gets beaten out by everything under the sun.
@@clonesolar the difference between the two is Vitiate is extremely powerful using the force but Nihilus is the death of the force he consumes it. Nihilus would win because vitiate cannot defeat and enemy that kills the force as he consumes it. Nihilus would just see vitiate as a giant one man buffet of force energy.
Vitiate: immortal, and has “the patience of stone and the will of stars” Sidious: highest recorded power in the dark side of the force, and knows all 7 forms (juyo being most favored) Nihilus: has the ability to drain life no matter how powerful they are, had a legendary connection to the dark side and had abilities not seen after his time, and used form II which gives a massive advantage in combat. And became the first recorded sith force ghost!
The reason I think dark Darth nihilus can win against both of them because both nihilus first of all don't have a mind for no one to control there's nothing physically there for them to control so technically not just he's Immortal he's almost invincible we haven't seen a lot of Darth nihilus capable of Fully
@@jmgonzales7701 they are many factors the reason why he lost against meetra surik meetra surik wasn't a normal Jedi in the end when she defeated Darth nihilus she became a wom in the force but either way as we seen that Darth nihilus wiped out the entire Jedi Order just by himself without even lifting a finger and what people overlook a lot of these Jedis were Masters who wus on Grand Master Yoda's level or close to it and he wiped them out with out lifting his finger he doesn't have even have to be on the planet to defeat Army of Jedi Masters reason why he lost it wus believe that Darth nihilus was very weakened and it's very much believe that he could not absorbed meetras surik force abilities because she was a also a wom in the force as Darth nihilus was and so she was possibly the only one that could defeat him that there is no Sith or Jedi that could defeat Darth nihilus. and only one person that could defeat Darth nihilus that was meetra surik remember Darth nihilus killed over 100 plus Jedi and especially Jedi Masters on the planet of Katraa and he doesn't have to be on a planet to destroy the planet and its civilization that's on it. he was just that powerful we haven't seen the extent of his true full power as there could have been more they could have done with Darth nihilus and then they actually shown us .also anyway and the probably another reason might has something that has to do with Mass Shadow generator but mainly it's possible that Darth nihilus was weakened when he fall so it really depends
@@jmgonzales7701 I know man i especially still accept Legends as a certain parallel Cannon but I do love the Legends a lot more than the sequels the sequel sucks to me after the return of the Jedi I believe the Legends were far more better the only thing that I actually have problems with the legend is Admiral thrawn getting assassinated and Starkiller don't like him at all say what you must but to me I'm not a big fan of Starkiller the only character I absolutely hate. anyway I also did not like Admiral thrawn getting assassinated he is like my very most favorite character in Star Wars
@@K.J.Richard vitiate had more than a thousand years of perpetration as well but he never controlled the entire galaxy or destroy the Jedi, palpatine did both
@@jakealter5504 Not all the Sith have for main goal to destroy the Jedi order, destroying the Jedi order and control the galaxy never was his main goal unlike Sidious and every Sith lords from the rule of two era. The Jedi were just an obstacle for him, his true goal was to become an immortal god and he lived a life of 1500 years so we can say that he succeeded. Sidious on the other hand, ruled the galaxy during 30 years... But in a 1v1 against Vitiate, i think Sidious could win the fight with a little bit of luck, the question is how could he, i mean they are both able to transfer their essence in another body, so if none of them is able to destroy a spirit, the fight would be a draw or it would last 3000 years lmao.
@@K.J.Richard vitiate’s version relies on host bodies like the emperor’s children, palpatine can easily counter that by sending his inquisitors and/or Vader after them. Palpatine didn’t rely on using the bodies of others (due to using cloned bodies) except when he needed one of his servants to bring his spirit back to byss when he died at Endor. If it comes down to a fight, palpatine and vitiate are pretty even in terms of force abilities/power but palpatine completely owns vitiate with the lightsaber since vitiate’s lightsaber skills were barely average. Palpatine also has the advantage of knowing about vitiate and his exploits (plagues also knew about them). Don’t take this as me saying that vitiate isn’t a very powerful sith since I do believe that he is one of the most powerful sith, I just believe that DE Sidious is even more powerful due to his mastery of the darkside and his mastery of lightsaber combat
I think the most important thing to note is that Sidious is the most naturally powerful sith ever, the other two used dark side rituals to increase their power to near god-like levels, wile Sidious used only his own strength in the force
Lol you gotta read more on Nihilus... he had INSANE telekinetic abilities... arguably the strongest ever... after the accident to his planet that turned him into the lord of hunger though... his drain became the most powerful ability the star wars universe has ever seen... did it happen naturally? No. But it didn't happen through a ritual either. Nihilus was naturally gifted though with immense power of the dark side. Power that sidious couldn't naturally match
@@Legacy738 he was more beast than man, and a slave to his hunger, barely considered a sith and when his life force drain didn't work his other skills were below average.
Is there any recommendations for me to read star wars books? I currently owned The New Jedi Order: The Balance Point, The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force and The High Republic: The Rising Storm.
Read the Plagueis novel, Bane trilogy, thrawn trilogy, legacy comics, canon thrawn trilogy, ascendancy trilogy, dark disciple (controversial but personal favorite), other books within the njo (ideally vector prime).
@@monkeymunchie9717 The canon Thrawn trilogy and legends Thrawn trilogy both feature Thrawn as a central charatcer and both are very heavy on imperial antics, that's where the similarities end. But make no mistake, the canon Thrawn trilogy is amazing too and is written by the same guy who wrote the eu Thrawn trilogy (Tim Zahn).
That one I'm still not sure. He has very impressive feats but I think most people in debate forum give the majority to palps still due to his force abilities. But for saber only I think caedus is slightly superior
Hey, if a Sith lord is stupid enough to trap himself in the mind of his own enemy and then put that enemy in the same location as a tool that can kill him because he ensnared the ghost of his dead father in it then it is entirely his fault when he is stripped of all power and forcefully remerged with the cosmic force. And if he's arrogant enough to try and mentally assault an entire group of jedi when he is at his weakest, rather than seizing just one of their bodies and slinking away then it is his own fault when someone comes a long and remurders him for good measure.
@@theartillery9724 actually they're canonically not. The dark side has a lot of abilities the light side doesn't offer but it is not stronger. More over the ideological and philosophical basis of the Sith as an order precludes the possibility of their victory. Because it innately sets them against each other with the inevitable result that it is always one Sith on a Throne surrounded by thousands of enemies with enough power between them to kill him.
Palpatine: "Im more powerful than you vitiate." Vitiate: "How so?" Palpatine: "I am the canon!" Vitiate: "Well, I am the old republic!" Palpatine: "You are in the EU." Vitiate: *gets sucked back to the EU* "NOOO"
If power means galactic influence and not just force power, Nihilus doesn't come close to Vitiate or Palpatine. Palpatine can also destroy planets with Death Star rays (but not with the force)
Vitiate / tenabris unquestionably… man possessed over 46 individuals, survived or 3000 years, built 2 empires for his own whim, his daughter is more powerful then palpatine alone. And forged all known dark side stances alone.
I think what made Palpatine quite strong was that he was a well rounded packaged sith lord. Politicial manipulations, sith alchemy & magic, & lightsaber combat. Palpatine's versatility is what made him dangerous. -But as far as who was the most powerful sith lord to ever live, Nihlus & Vitiate are SO CLOSE as far as raw force power. BUT I would have to agree Vitiate is strongest. He still retained his own will to dominate & live even after 2 of his physical bodies being "killed" since he had essence transfer. -Nihlus had no choice but to consume worlds in order to keep living, if you count being nothing more than a force entity as living. If you think about it, it was more of a curse than an actual will or desire.
One of my candidates for most powerful sith that many tend to ignore or not know of is sithari king adas in part given out of every sith even many star wars characters he has the biggest legacy in having crippled the rakata empire during their prime with a significantly lessor or least smaller army then them. And they were the ones who brought down the celestials who apparently were at least ruled by the same species as the ones if not a full civilization of them and their typically seen as some level of true force deities even if not the strongest compared to some other deities
Finally I found a video that convinces me that Palpatine is actually really powerful. I always figured Vitiate was the most powerful, considering Nihilus is mainly only as strong as he is cause he's a wound in the force or something like that.
Imagine if Anakin won at mustafar he will have 100 times Darth Sidous's dueling Ability 90 times the force drain power of Darth Nihlus and 50 times the life span and abilities of Darth Vitiate Emperor Vader could have consumed galaxies to survive
@@addaskhasawneh8174 Yup but thats just in the nature of fanboys, they always want their character to win and they dont like their character being weak In Marvel/DC community there is tons of them
I've read the Revan book and Vitiate is such a beast in mind control you wouldn't even know he did it and draining the Force and every essence of life from a planet where being on it has no color or sound
You do realize that palpatine was capable of doing the same thing right? The only reason byss didn’t get stripped to the same extent as Nathema was because palpatine didn’t want to rule an empire of dead people
@Aspen that’s true. The main thing is that guys like vitiate or nhilius were only able to drain planets because of a ritual (like vitiate did the first time) or because they were a force wound, palpatine didn’t need either to do what he did
@Aspen that’s why I didn’t mention ziost since vitiate didn’t need as much preparation time as he did with nathema. I know nhilius was gifted with force drain but part of why he was so good at it is because he was a wound in the force
Sidious is truly the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. What many people don't seems to realize is that he was able to use his force powers from distance across the galaxy such as holding an entire grip of his empire from his palace through telepathy and force dominating mind combined, and he was able to collectivity drain life essence across the galaxy. Vitiate would be no match with him in 1v1 as Sidious would collect all the life essence from the galaxy to increase his strength and speed in combat. He was even able to consume a planet without any complex ritual.
The thing that I also like to take into account is that while palpatine was very successful his absolute rule only lasted 20 years and then a few years when he returned (but his empire wasn't as big anymore) while Vitiate ruled for over a millennium which is quite a successful feat in itself.
I believe that strength is the ability to do whatever you want without worrying about danger so Nihlus would be the weakest since he has to always be thinking about his next meal being essentially a slave to his hunger which makes him even weaker then the average citizen, even I am more powerful then Nihlus from my point of view
It doesn't make him weak, lmao. If Nihilus wished, he could completely remove all life on earth in a matter of minutes. You or any other citizen, for that matter, would not stand a chance against him
@@arandomgreekfrombactria6302 yet he still is more powerful than vitiate. it doesn’t matter if he is a monster, he still consumed countless force sensitives and became invincible, binding his soul to his armor.
Say what you will about Episode 9, but Palpatine shooting lightning into the sky to disable all the Resistance ships was the most impressive feat outside of the Mortis Gods and Bendu
I agree with you completely. It is not to forget that since the rule of 2 was established, just 2 sith could exist at a given time. This made it very unlikely to have incredibly powerful sith, because your poll of choice only has 2 balls. In the old republic era there wars tenth of thousands of sith, of course the chance of finding one stronger than Siduous is very very high. I would even exaggerate and say that Palpatine is on pair with someone like Darth Thanaton in terms of power
Thanaton is nowhere near Sidious in power tbh, Sidious is on the same level as Vitiate, Nihilus and Plagueis (the four of them are the planetary level sith of the star wars universe). Thanaton is nowhere near force storm level.
@@yggunshot8402 lol, come on, Siduous is nowhere near vitiante or nihilus. Everybody mentioning Palpatine's force storms, but other than in the shitty New trilogy (which to me is not Canon) we never actually see him performing such an ability, his maximum force lightning power was a little more than what we see in revenge of the sith. Not to mention Thanaton is in some comics where he is young and seem to be able to do massive force storms himself
@@babyyoda8233 Ahh ok now I see why you don't believe Sidious is on the same level as Vitiate and Nihilus, you haven't actually read/played much of the material based on eu Sidious (this isn't meant to be an offensive comment, I can just tell). To start things off, the force storms created by Palpatine are not what you think they are. There are two types of force storms, one is the lightning force storm you are thinking of (used by Thanaton, Revan and Bane) and the second is literally a hyperspace wormhole capable of tearing through space and time (the one used by Palpatine) they both share the same name. Palpatine's version of the force storm was capable of destroying entire fleets, moons and planets ranging from their surface to the entire planet itself, he uses them in the dark empire trilogy. They can also be used to transport people through space and time and they can be created and controlled from light-years away. It is physically the most destructive dark side ability seen in the eu (seeing as it actually caused physical destruction and literally tore mass apary as opposed to causing decay or simply draining life on a planet). The dark staff of the sith empire also had this power and was renowned for the ability. Palpatine also has a bunch of other insane feats like telepathically mind wiping and dominating the entire population of the planet Coruscant, Indefinitely force draining the planet Byss (without a ritual just like Nihilus) so that he could constantly drain from the ever growing population, using the dark side to cloud the minds of the entire prequel trilogy jedi order (this is thousands of jedi, although he did this with help from Plagueis to be fair), using battle meditation on the entire imperial military during the battle of endor as confirmed int he Thrawn novels etc. As you can see, Palpatine has more planetary level feats than any other sith lord with the possible exception of Nihilus, who is heavily implied to have drained multiple planets off screen. In echoes of oblivion we see that Vitiate is finally defeated and wiped out of Satele's mental plain when all the force users wronged by Vitiate team up to drag his spirit into the chaos. Interestingly enough, Sidious was defeated the exact same way in empired end, only difference is that after containing, Palpatine's essence, brand was assisted by the dead spirits of all the jedi when dragging Sidious spirit into the chaos. Now to address the force lightning debate (even though the force storm confusion was actually a separate thing), it is very arguable that Sidious is better than Thanaton in this category. Whilst Thanaton certainly has access to what is undoubtedly the largest array of lightning based force powers (rivaled only by Galen Marek in that regard) the raw power of his lightning is not quite as impressive as that of Sidious, his fully powered direct blasts combined with sorcery could hardly even put a dent in Darth Nox. Sidious was capable of doing some pretty crazy stuff with force lightning and was only really rivaled by Valkorion, Galen Marek and Bane when it comes to lightning. For one thing, Sidious can actually disintegrate beings with his lightning granted he has rarely gone to this extent (used it to disintegrate 3 dark side adepts as well as a massive creature once) which alone is some pretty high intensity only replicated by Malgus and Galen (although Vitiate has killed stronger force users like Marr giving him the edge in this category). Sidious also causally defeated Galen Marek with his force lightning whilst Galen was in a state with oneness with the force (I'm sure you know what oneness is) and caused a massive explosion blowing up his entire throne room as well as everyone in proximity in doing so. He also casually one shotted multiple jedi with lightning whilst he was dying in empire's end. Lastly, while he may not have been quite as expansive in his array of various lightning abilities, he did still posses the ability to create force lightning shields, and create planetary level lightning storms on Vjun with his mere presence. With all of this being said, I think it is pretty clear that you underestimate Palpatine quite a bit, he is an extremely powerful sith lord and more than deserving of standing amongst Vitiate and Nihilus.
@@yggunshot8402 Wait wait wait wait. I am not underestimating anybody, and you are doing an out of the line analysis. Yes, I have played i would say every single Star wars game since 2005, (haven't played very old games pre-2005), and I would say I am on pair with what happens in the majority of comics, because even though the amount I actually read is not that big, I always read summaries and watch videos for the ones I don't personally read. The point is, we are comparing the Canon Siduous with Vitiate and Nihilus, not the Legends/EU Sidious. Most of his very very powerful abilities are seen in legends stuff, if you take that out Sidious is just a squishy sith
@@babyyoda8233 Sorry, you seemed to give off that impression since you stated that you had never seen Sidious use a force storm, didn't know you were referring to canon Sidious. Why would you want to compare canon Sidious with them anyway? Ideally a discussion involving these three particular characters would be an indication to use legends Sidious for reference seeing as that is their shared continuity, it isn't like canon would take precedence in this scenario.
Tennebrea actually used a ritual on nathrma but he didn't need the ritual for ziost anymore the death made it possible for him to actually consume the whole planet beside tennebrea was born strong and became a littraly force deity
My definition of power is a dragon that can eat entire galaxy and then spit it out as vomit, making it into a nebula. A creature that would only exist my constellation that I have thoroughly written.
1. Revan has specifically been called more powerful than nihilus. In terms of power Revan was, excluding valkorion, the most powerful force-wielder in galactic history. He was like the heart of the force, his presence was like a galactic wide disturbance in the force that was everywhere and nowhere at once. It was so powerful in fact that it allowed non-Force sensitives to be able to feel the Force travel under their skin and into their lungs, heart and gut. Even more so, in his dark days, way before his prime, his presence left a dark stain that could be felt after many years. His power grew beyond imagination, beyond the wildest dreams and fantasies of any Jedi or sith. It’s not that they never did imagine or wanted to imagine, it’s that they literally couldn’t possibly imagine. He was stated to be beyond Nihilus the devourer of worlds who was only beaten my multiple PIS/ OP plot device factors combining. He has been called the most talented Jedi ever, having a potential that is quote “unlimited”, he was the most powerful champion the republic ever produced, a literal god of war among the mandalorians, to the point they though touching him would give luck for generations to come. He was called the greatest warrior of the entire age. All and all he was second only to valkorion. Also the quote sidious is the most powerful sith ever cant apply to Revan or valkorion because both their primes were after they were sith.
'Most powerful Sith ever' extends to every time period in Star Wars. You're clearly lowballing Sidious. Revan isn't taking on the four best saber users from the Jedi Order's strongest council ever. The Jedi Council at the height of their power (from political influence to lightsaber duelists all the way to the skill of their force powers) sent their best duelists AND THEY STILL LOST. In the novelization, Sidious was overpowering Windu's Vapaad with his force lightning. This is JUST one scene in Star Wars. Revan would not have survived if you put him in the same spot as Sidious. The force DIRECTLY intervened against Sidious on a few occasions. That's UNHEARD of, in all of legends and canon. He's the only figure the force itself directly opposed. That alone is WAY beyond what any other Sith (arguably any other being) has ever achieved.
id say Nihilus would win if he would manage to use his Ability to block force connection but if he wouldnt than Vitiate sorry but Sidious just doesnt compare to Old Republic Sith
Vitiate consumed planets like nihilus but didn’t need to. Lived for 1500 successfully switching bodies multiple times and ruling and starting two empires. Almost became god and Jedi wasn’t enough to finally kill him it was literally the whole galaxy. So in my conclusion he is the gigachad of the sith
Vitiate didn't consume planets "like" Nihilus did. Vitiate could and did consume planets, but had to direct his energy/force to do so. Nihilus would do it passively. Just Nihilus' mere presence and distance to a planet was enough to drain it. Of course this does mean that Nihilus had to be fairly close to planets to drain them compared to Vitiate, but being able to do so passively is absolutely insane
Issue here I have is Vitatie as himself won't be able to defeat Nihilus like he did with Revan because Mind Tricks do not work on Wounds of the force like Darth Nihilus. I can see Valkorian beating him but as Vitatie or Tenebrae no. Also Darth Nihilus loses to him due to Valkorian's Force Storm. But the way I see it 1. Valkorian 2. Nihilus 3. DE Palpatine 4. Vitatie 5. OT/PT Palpatine
I think it's too contrictory as plaguise Palpatine, nilhilus, traya and viate have all been called the most powerful sith or even Darkside user on multiple occasions the strongest is up to the writer of the story. until someone clears up the contridictions
Plaugeis was explicitly surpassed right upon his death as the book shows Palpatine gaining a massive boost in power(many sith apprenictes grow stronger like that) and he was already only slightly weaker than Plaugeis. Basically Plaugeis was the most powerful BANITE Sith until the end of the novel
Its not contradictory,those statemenst apply only up to their time. Nihilus was strongest,then Vitiate surpassed him and became strongest,then Palpatine surpassed him etc
@@newhybrid101 Palpatine was in a state of oneness after killing Plagueis (hence that power boost where he manipulates the stars and sends dark energy all around coruscant) that wasn't his base power lol.
@@VadersFortress so you remember in star wars IX Rise of Skywalker, well when Rey went to exogul however you spell it the planet of the sith. there were all these guys wearing cloaks and were chanting at Rey, who are they?
I honestly agree that Palpatine is the Most powerful for one because he is THE SENATOS and for the fact that he could: drain life of planets better than Valkorion/Vitiate, create wormholes that could destroy planets, dominate the minds of everyone on a planet and corrupt them with his presence, having his battle meditation over the entire Galaxy!!,mind wipe billions of people, scorch planets with his lightning and hide a super star destroyer in plain site.
He could not drain life from planet better than Vitiate... i'm agree on the fact that Sidious from Dark Empire is the most powerful Sith lord of all time but Vitiate stopped to be a Sith when he became Valkorion and this version of Vitiate is something above. They needed the whole Sith and Jedi order to finally striking him down (The Outlander, Satele Shan, Revan, Lord Scourge, The Valkorion familly, etc...) and they did not even killed him completely, Vitiate trully passed out in 67 BBY. Peoples who think that Sidious is more powerful than Vitiate just don't understand the character, you can't compare the dark side knowledges of someone who lived thousand of years, Sidious needed to transfer his essence to cheat death, Vitiate also used this abillity but it wasn't necessary due to his ritual on Nathema. Mate... this ritual killed 8 thousand Sith lords in 5 seconds, he did the same thing with Ziost while Sidious took decades to drain all the life from Byss. In conclusion, Sidious could have been in the same range as Vitiate due to his high force sensitivity, but the acquirable dark side knowledges of his era is just not something you can compare with, due to many destroyed holocrons after the collapse of the old Sith empire.
@@K.J.Richard It took every jedi that ever lived to defeat palpatines spirit and valkorion is the same person as vitiate no difference in power as he needed rituals while palpatine did not
@@K.J.Richard Luke did not outsmart sidious alone he had his allies help with that and yes vitiate and valkorion were equals as noted by darth Marrs notice of valkorions strength in power was roughly equal to that of vitiates
I find it very interesting how people think Darth Nihilus can be placed among the likes of Palpatine/Vitiate/Luke. Nihilus is definitely nowhere near these 3 in terms of overal feats. Even with his planet wide force drain, Nihilus cannot compete with the Top 5 dark side force users. Nihilus should be placed among Vader, Bane, Naga Sadow and Count Dooku. Nihilus could be placed higher or even become the strongest Sith lord if he had consumed all the force users in the galaxy, but unfortunately he got defeated by Meetra Surik before he could accomplish this. Now I think about it, Vitiate was alive around the time Nihilus roamed the galaxy. So Nihilus can't win anyway.
If it weren't for Meetra being a wound in the force no one/nothing would've stopped Nihilus until the entire universe would be consumed. Nihilus would cut Vitiate's connection to the force whilst consuming it and becoming that much more powerful
@@matteobortolotto5809 the first time i played that game I thought he totally is the strongest force user. But after checking most sw debate forum I changed my mind. First of all you should read dark empire and its lore
I have to go with Nihilus here even though I love all 3 Nihilus had the unique force wound within him that made him basically unbeatable unless your another force wound plus he's a ghost and has more raw power than either of these other 2 siths... Vitiates power was immense but it only could stay that way l because he had to perform rituals in order to maintain his power by stealing others where as palpatine gained his through knowledge mainly and nihilus didn't require any rituals to gain his but instead his were gained through a cataclysmic event and yes palpatine wins lightsaber wise but overall Nihilus would come out on top
I could go on and on about how Tulak Hord was more powerful then any of them however I will leave it with a simple statement: he literally created a Sith Holocron that these sith learned from.
@Aspen I don't mind if you disagree, it's not that big of a deal, however, Darth Nox was not Tulak Hord therefore I don't think that Nox's power had anything to do with Hord's. However, even if somehow they were connected then let me say this: Malgus was a regular modern sith, Hord was an ancient sith. And as it was said "the modern sith are but puppets compared to the ancient sith." Hord fought singlehandedly and defeated thousands of other force wielders. Vs, Malkus who was defeated. Hord on the other hand was NEVER defeated in any attack since he was born! The only time he was even remotely defeated was when he was stabbed in the back by his appearance when he was in his old age. And yet even then his appearance refused to attack him face on because he knew he would never be able to kill him. It's all to say that Hord was far more feared by those that knew him. So as I said, I'm not trying to change your mind I'm simply explaining why I believe he would win a duel with anyone. So if you disagree I'm not saying you are wrong I'm simply saying I don't understand it. Also thank you for commenting. :)
@Aspen As far as Malgus I do agree, he definitely would pose a threat to Hord! Now as far as ones like Nihlus that consumed worlds, I think they did that because they needed to in order to achieve their goals. Hord on the other hand managed to rule the ancient sith without needing to consume worlds. Point being that he might have been capable of SOOO much and yet didn't need to. So little is known of him that it is hard to tell. But simply based on what we do know of him, (creating one of the most desired holocrons), I believe he is more powerful than what he showed/was recorded. Not to mention the fact that he literally erased a being from all existence via an ancient sith ritual. But I do agree, based on what we see and what is known, Tulak does not seem to be as powerful. However I believe that there is more to him than meets the eye
Prime Luke(60s age)?Anyone that knows anything him in legends knows he would do it EASILY all three of them at once while having a goofy ass smile and exterting absolutely no effort Honestly he surpassed DE Sidious at the age of 29-30 who was much stronger than OG trilogy Sidious who was much stronger than ROTS Sidious who stated to be the strongest Sith ever which means above Vitiate who is above Nihilus
![[LIVE] นาทีนี้ต้องพี่ทนาย | ทนายแก้ว vs ทนายไพศาล | #คุยให้เด็กมันฟัง EP.47 (02/11/67)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HmquaO-PL_M/mqdefault.jpg)
Remember to check out the Darth Nihilus fan film I used in this vid! It's brilliant! ⬇️
th-cam.com/video/7Fl48HXJhSg/w-d-xo.html
@@DarkLordofTheRizz ...calm down, Darth Nihilus or vitiate are obviously the most powerful. And how do you know the info about Nihilus taking a long time to consume a planet?
@@DarkLordofTheRizz Nihilus was litterally on the Ravager and got onto the surface later where he found Visas. And do not compare his drain to a normal one, it might take him some time but Traya trained him to drain an entire planet, it is not something that you can do with a regular force drain.
@@DarkLordofTheRizz to strengthen his hunger of course. Alright but now I will stop talking to you, and unfortunately for you, I will continue writing my fanfic about Nihilus.
I like his videos a lot but he could improve in power scaling,he is more green than Yoda.(just a joke pls)
Still a GREAT channel to be informed about star wars facts
@UCH9DxGQylHp54k5R173-uIA Hey i mean thats how Theorys channel also started.
Shit 70% of that channel is being a delusional fanboy who ignored facts and suc-ehh gave Anakin a good time
Valkorion: *lived for 1500 years with several different bodies*
Palpatine: *A politician, Master of Mind-manipulation, One of if not the most dangerous lightsaber duelist*
Nihilus: *C O N S U M P L A N E T*
Nihilus : NOM
G E T I N M Y B E L L Y
Valkorion did all 3 of these
B I G EAT
Vitiate also consumed planets
Oh, I most certainly agree with your choice of words and placements, but you forgot one. My master, Darth Jar Jar, the true Supreme being of the Universe.
Jar Jar doesn't count because its more like he is the dark side of the force rather then him merely using it, with that much power I wouldn't even call him a person He'sa all powerful
@@JubulusPrime jedi: you have violated the force! jar jar: mesa AM the force.
@@JubulusPrime hesa is the force itself yousa cannot compare anyones power with his.
Well... I have the Highground
@@MrShrog No...I have the Highground.
Vitiate: *I drained the force energy of the entire Sith race*
Nihilus: *I devoured all life from entire planets*
Palpatine: I was a politician
Vitiate & Nihilus: get away from us…
Vitiate was also a politician, just a longer lived one.
Vitiate didn't force drain the sith race idiot and also palpatine drained byss that had a population of trillions. Also vitiate needed a ritual and the help of others to drain planets
Correction
Palpatine: I am the senate
Both of them: *kneel
Sidious: But as Darth Sidious i Created force storms that can reach across the Galaxy and destroy planets and know 248 force abilties.
Palpatine drained a planet as well and mind controlled 3 trillion people
Can you do a video on why jar jar was the true most powerful sith?
Jar jar to gonk droid when watched this video:Look what they did to mimic a fraction of our power.
Maybe as a April fools joke
The reason is, he didn't leave any trace. Nobody could defeat him, if they didn't know he even existed. This alone makes him stronger than palpatine.
A dude out here complaining as if you insulted him directly or something lol. "I hAtE bEiNg pRoVeN rIgHt".
Its a good video and it explains the character's stories and abilities properly for those that had this question (seen it on the comments a lot) or didn't know much of any of the 3 characters.
Love your videos! Great work as always!
Aha thanks man. It was only a brief overview of the characters. I still stand by my conclusion
@@VadersFortress great Video when is your Vitiate Video ready?
I would also agree with his good synopsis, although not agree with his rankings. Very succinct.
Vitiate is the strongest for me, but palpatine have the power that Vitiate don’t have. He’s Cannon.
Its arguable he was surpassed later on though
Darth nihilus by far
@@zzodysseuszz actually, Palpatine could do everything Nihilus could do and even better at some stuff, he once sucked the life of the planet Byss, he didn’t use it as frequently as Nihilus because “I don’t wish to rule an empire of dead men”
@@JMinuteman Exactly. VERY well side
Vitiate is the true master of the force, both light and dark, because he didn't see himself as a sith, he saw himself as a God. Sidious wouldn't beat him, Vitiates patience and scheming would be Sidious undoing without him doing much. Because Sidious was a megalomaniac who wanted to control everyone, Vitiate just didn't want to die, so he wanted everyone to die. So he would let them fight and kill eachother, and when thats over he would just end the left.
Now I agree with vitiate being the most powerful. If I had to say my favorite between the three? It's going to Nihilus dudes a literal freaking terror in my eyes
Vitiate ruled two empires for at least a thousands years..
And destroyed both republic and empire
Yeah he ruled the sith empire for 1300 years at least
Exactly over 1000 years of gaining power and all the knowledge and practice use vitiate is supreme
@@tenebrae5307 he didn't destroy it he vassalized them both
his empire was in a small region. Sidious ruled the entire galaxy and maintained control over trillions as seen with the thrawn novel
Vitiate also repealed the ritual by consuming Ziost, a key Sith world, as a sign of ascending over jedi and Sith. And unlike Nihilus, he wasn't driven into literal slavery of his own hunger after both of these rituals.
And Palpatine didn't need to do a force ritual, he did these things with the force alone.
@@bluekunt He still pales to Naga Sadow who made star go supernova and Vitiate was more powerful than he was.
@@Apeironization1 No he didn't. And idk if you know this but black holes >>>> supernovas. And Vitiate was only stronger because again he had tons of prep time, sith followers, and sith artifacts.
Palpatine was creating multiple force storms concurrently, thousands of lightyears away, all by himself. To the point that the force itself was in agony, and he was threatening space-time.
@@bluekunt No not black holes, palpatine used wormholes to send wormholes thousands of light years away-that's what caused very tiny threat threat to space time, a very small worm holes that took out republic fleet, that's it, Naga Sadow took out many star systems with his supernova feat, faaaar more powerful and faaar more destructive than anything Palpatine has done-facts.
Vitiate was powerful by nature faaar more powerful than all the ancient sith regardless of their feats.
@@Apeironization1 I like how you just ignored the fact that his force storms were literally tearing apart space-time. Idc what you say but supernova are below that. And you know why? I was being nice when I said they were black holes. Force storms are literally tearing holes into hyperspace.
They're pretty much hyperspace-holes. And if you know anything about hyperspace, it's literally opening another dimension and either using it to transport people (like Luke) or to rip apart fleets and even planets.
And if Palpatine truly wanted to, he could just create numerous force storms across solar systems to destroy the galaxy, but he wanted to rule it first. So no, Sadow isn't that strong.
And Vitiate is NOWHERE near as strong.
Don't ignore the fact that he needed tons of hope to do shit Palpatine could do all by himself, tenfold.
4:34 You used my picture, THANK YOU!!!
Keep up the great work!
Vitiate is strongest between everyone. He was so powerful it’s insane. Ruling two empires over 1500 years, dominating countless minds and consuming entire planets without succumbing like Nihilus… it’s brilliant. 🖤
Palpatine ruled the entire galaxy through telepathy mind controlling the crownies of the empire from his palace. He drained planets to increase his powers and created force storms that could annihilate planets.
It should be noted vitiate came from the cut script for kotor 3 whose description talks about these "old" sith as far and above the powers of the previous sith lords you've fought. So from the basic premise of the sith emperor he eclipses nihilus and now this is a Palpatine or sidious debate.
@@perennem_equitem_57 Exactly, all of it.
It was probably the sith who mind controlled one of the most powerful sith of all time, palpatine, and used him to control the galaxy. It’s a shame he broke free and jar jar had to make Luke kill him.
Vitiate controlled revan who was also a sith for the ages.
Thanks for another glorious video!
No worries! 😁
Another question if anakin Skywalker had all of his limbs as And no injuries and fell to the dark side he would definitely go above them if he was a little more collected being able to dominate the son and daughter with the force
In a way Darth Vader deep down was stronger than Palpatine but his psychological issues always held his true power back.Yes he didnt have the potential of Anakin but he could still surpass the emperor just not as much as Anakin could.
I am sure Palpatine knew it anyways,the Rise of Darth Vader novel makes it clear
The fact that Anakin never truly died in Vader held him back,that sliver of light made all the difference.
If by Lucas scaling Vader was an 8,Palpatine a 10 and full potential Anakin/Luke a 20 then i think Vader with no regrets about his sins,with no lingering Anakin and light/good in him,no love for Padme etc would be a 11 or 12.
Anakin will most definitely be powerful with his limbs on but he can never amount to ancient sithlords
False
@@kurt1854 true
@@kurt1854 This is so false
Great video! I wonder who wins in pure kill count! Directly or indirectly.
Probably Palpatine if you blame him for the destruction of Alderaan and the Clone Wars
@@VadersFortress I'm inclined to agree!
@@VadersFortress nah you gotta split those kills between him and the former republic senate for the clone wars and the geonsian for the death star
but nilis consumed multiple planets so.....
Clone wars killed billions though
Out of the three, I can confidently say Palpatine is the smartest Sith in the Order’s history
His only competition for that spot is probably Kreia
I'm pretty certain palpatine was the most dangerous sith and the one who represented the dark side the most.
Exactly, Kreia is the only one who can come close to palpatine in terms of manipulation. She is underrated af
Darth Traya surpasses palpatine in terms of wisdom
I’m not sure about the “smartest”. Maybe the most powerful and manipulative, but vitiate lead empires for hundreds of years on and off, compared to palpatine who was only a ruler for lime25-30 years. Vitiates entity was around for 1500 years. Intelligence and knowledge goes to him, he was just more tactical and smarter in my opinion. Just had more knowledge and experience. I’d give palpatine the edge on actual raw powers though.
@@sdaftermath123 Being alive for 1500 years without conquering the galaxy shows that Vitiate is not that powerful and he relied on complex ritual to consume that planet... Sidious ruled the entire galaxy for 20 years and annihilated the jedi order. He consumed an entire planet without any complex ritual and discovered force storms that could wipe out planets.
I'm convinced that Tulak Hord was the greatest light saber duelist
I find this pleasing and your tier list is good
Palpatine: insane force lightning and manipulation of the galaxy
Vitiate: master of sith alchemy
Nihlus: "oh death, won't you spare me over another year?"
Vitiate is in my opinion is the most powerful sith in history.
@Wujek Świtek (Dark USA agent. USA pays me 394k). I’m aware of what he could do.
You know most of vitiate power wasn’t organic he wasn’t born with that power unlike palpatine who was from birth that powerful vitiate used rituals to to empower his strength in the force and he did it a lot
George Lucas: *Am i a joke to you?*
Sidious can do what Vitiate can with Mind control etc as seen with Byss and he doesn't need prolonged rituals to sustain his power. He was confirmed as the most powerful sith ever and could fold space and destroy planets with force storm.
This is an example of a disconnect between the actual lore and what we see in expanded media. Palpatine is like the gm 2 from zeta gundum in that it is definitively better than the strongest machine of the first series, the gundam, but In all media it appears in gets beaten out by everything under the sun.
@@Aceshot-uu7yx I guess
@@Aceshot-uu7yx What in the name of Osiris is a gundam?
@@and8091 what in the name of gundam is Osiris?
Well, in terms of just lightsaber combat, Palpatine wins. In terms of raw force power, vitiate wins.
In terms of raw force power nihilus wins... In terms of SKILL with the force, THEN vitiate/valkorian wins....
@@Legacy738 Just because he was a wound in the force doesn't make him the strongest.
@@clonesolar I agree here. He was completely defeated when he could not steal the life force of Meetra Surik.
@@clonesolar the difference between the two is Vitiate is extremely powerful using the force but Nihilus is the death of the force he consumes it. Nihilus would win because vitiate cannot defeat and enemy that kills the force as he consumes it. Nihilus would just see vitiate as a giant one man buffet of force energy.
@@sisigs4820 No, vitiate and Palpatine could drain planets but they didn't need to. They would beat up nihilus.
Vitiate: immortal, and has “the patience of stone and the will of stars”
Sidious: highest recorded power in the dark side of the force, and knows all 7 forms (juyo being most favored)
Nihilus: has the ability to drain life no matter how powerful they are, had a legendary connection to the dark side and had abilities not seen after his time, and used form II which gives a massive advantage in combat. And became the first recorded sith force ghost!
Thanks for another interesting video 👍
The reason I think dark Darth nihilus can win against both of them because both nihilus first of all don't have a mind for no one to control there's nothing physically there for them to control so technically not just he's Immortal he's almost invincible we haven't seen a lot of Darth nihilus capable of Fully
Why did he lose
@@jmgonzales7701 they are many factors the reason why he lost against meetra surik meetra surik wasn't a normal Jedi in the end when she defeated Darth nihilus she became a wom in the force but either way as we seen that Darth nihilus wiped out the entire Jedi Order just by himself without even lifting a finger and what people overlook a lot of these Jedis were Masters who wus on Grand Master Yoda's level or close to it and he wiped them out with out lifting his finger he doesn't have even have to be on the planet to defeat Army of Jedi Masters reason why he lost it wus believe that Darth nihilus was very weakened and it's very much believe that he could not absorbed meetras surik force abilities because she was a also a wom in the force as Darth nihilus was and so she was possibly the only one that could defeat him that there is no Sith or Jedi that could defeat Darth nihilus. and only one person that could defeat Darth nihilus that was meetra surik remember Darth nihilus killed over 100 plus Jedi and especially Jedi Masters on the planet of Katraa and he doesn't have to be on a planet to destroy the planet and its civilization that's on it. he was just that powerful we haven't seen the extent of his true full power as there could have been more they could have done with Darth nihilus and then they actually shown us .also anyway and the probably another reason might has something that has to do with Mass Shadow generator but mainly it's possible that Darth nihilus was weakened when he fall so it really depends
@@2musicSoundtrackfandom579 Damn i feel like we lost alot of lore when they decided that legends was not cannon.
@@jmgonzales7701 I know man i especially still accept Legends as a certain parallel Cannon but I do love the Legends a lot more than the sequels the sequel sucks to me after the return of the Jedi I believe the Legends were far more better the only thing that I actually have problems with the legend is Admiral thrawn getting assassinated and Starkiller don't like him at all say what you must but to me I'm not a big fan of Starkiller the only character I absolutely hate. anyway I also did not like Admiral thrawn getting assassinated he is like my very most favorite character in Star Wars
@@2musicSoundtrackfandom579 all that can be changed. Whats important is they actually make legends a separate story line from the skywalker saga.
Another great video 👍👍 keep it up
My Top 8 Most Powerful Sith of All Time:
1. Darth Revan
2. Darth Nihilus
3. Darth Vitiate
4. Darth Plagueis
5. Darth Sidious
6. Darth Vader
7. Starkiller
8. Darth Malgus
Vitiate by far! And he was a TRUE Sith!
Vitiate achieved more power then Sidious, he made two empires.
But those were limited in reach, were they not? Sidious managed to rule almost the entire galaxy.
@@SamvedIyer Due to a thousand of years of preparation the Sith who came before did.
@@K.J.Richard vitiate had more than a thousand years of perpetration as well but he never controlled the entire galaxy or destroy the Jedi, palpatine did both
@@jakealter5504 Not all the Sith have for main goal to destroy the Jedi order, destroying the Jedi order and control the galaxy never was his main goal unlike Sidious and every Sith lords from the rule of two era.
The Jedi were just an obstacle for him, his true goal was to become an immortal god and he lived a life of 1500 years so we can say that he succeeded. Sidious on the other hand, ruled the galaxy during 30 years...
But in a 1v1 against Vitiate, i think Sidious could win the fight with a little bit of luck, the question is how could he, i mean they are both able to transfer their essence in another body, so if none of them is able to destroy a spirit, the fight would be a draw or it would last 3000 years lmao.
@@K.J.Richard vitiate’s version relies on host bodies like the emperor’s children, palpatine can easily counter that by sending his inquisitors and/or Vader after them. Palpatine didn’t rely on using the bodies of others (due to using cloned bodies) except when he needed one of his servants to bring his spirit back to byss when he died at Endor. If it comes down to a fight, palpatine and vitiate are pretty even in terms of force abilities/power but palpatine completely owns vitiate with the lightsaber since vitiate’s lightsaber skills were barely average. Palpatine also has the advantage of knowing about vitiate and his exploits (plagues also knew about them). Don’t take this as me saying that vitiate isn’t a very powerful sith since I do believe that he is one of the most powerful sith, I just believe that DE Sidious is even more powerful due to his mastery of the darkside and his mastery of lightsaber combat
5:35 Palpatine was said to be easily able to block Nilihus's force drain
I think the most important thing to note is that Sidious is the most naturally powerful sith ever, the other two used dark side rituals to increase their power to near god-like levels, wile Sidious used only his own strength in the force
Lol you gotta read more on Nihilus... he had INSANE telekinetic abilities... arguably the strongest ever... after the accident to his planet that turned him into the lord of hunger though... his drain became the most powerful ability the star wars universe has ever seen... did it happen naturally? No. But it didn't happen through a ritual either. Nihilus was naturally gifted though with immense power of the dark side. Power that sidious couldn't naturally match
@@Legacy738 he was more beast than man, and a slave to his hunger, barely considered a sith and when his life force drain didn't work his other skills were below average.
He's canon,they are not 😂
exar kun was more powerful
@@arandomgreekfrombactria6302 you forget his force lightning which literally disintegrated people. nihilus easily destroys vitiate
Vitiate is a different breed
Is there any recommendations for me to read star wars books? I currently owned The New Jedi Order: The Balance Point, The New Jedi Order: The Unifying Force and The High Republic: The Rising Storm.
Read the Plagueis novel, Bane trilogy, thrawn trilogy, legacy comics, canon thrawn trilogy, ascendancy trilogy, dark disciple (controversial but personal favorite), other books within the njo (ideally vector prime).
@@yggunshot8402 there's a legend and canon verison of Thrawn trilogy?
@@monkeymunchie9717 The canon Thrawn trilogy and legends Thrawn trilogy both feature Thrawn as a central charatcer and both are very heavy on imperial antics, that's where the similarities end. But make no mistake, the canon Thrawn trilogy is amazing too and is written by the same guy who wrote the eu Thrawn trilogy (Tim Zahn).
@@yggunshot8402 ah okay thanks for the info.
I would say Palpatine is most powerful canon sith, while Tenebrae (Vitiate) is most powerful Sith in legends.
Nah in legends you got guys like caedus and krayt, both more powerful then vitiate and palpatine.
Legends sidious was even stornger the the Canon version
I think in legends version sidious is still the strongest. Krayt's arc that said to be comparable with luke is blown out of proportion
@@vadimananenko2452 Caedus?
That one I'm still not sure. He has very impressive feats but I think most people in debate forum give the majority to palps still due to his force abilities. But for saber only I think caedus is slightly superior
here is the one true sith story :
sith: unlimited power, immortality (or close to it)
everyone fighing sith : plot armor
sith: unlucky
Hey, if a Sith lord is stupid enough to trap himself in the mind of his own enemy and then put that enemy in the same location as a tool that can kill him because he ensnared the ghost of his dead father in it then it is entirely his fault when he is stripped of all power and forcefully remerged with the cosmic force. And if he's arrogant enough to try and mentally assault an entire group of jedi when he is at his weakest, rather than seizing just one of their bodies and slinking away then it is his own fault when someone comes a long and remurders him for good measure.
@@theartillery9724 actually they're canonically not. The dark side has a lot of abilities the light side doesn't offer but it is not stronger. More over the ideological and philosophical basis of the Sith as an order precludes the possibility of their victory. Because it innately sets them against each other with the inevitable result that it is always one Sith on a Throne surrounded by thousands of enemies with enough power between them to kill him.
Palpatine: "Im more powerful than you vitiate."
Vitiate: "How so?"
Palpatine: "I am the canon!"
Vitiate: "Well, I am the old republic!"
Palpatine: "You are in the EU."
Vitiate: *gets sucked back to the EU* "NOOO"
you forgot the part that he is in the EU cause of how overpowered he is
If power means galactic influence and not just force power, Nihilus doesn't come close to Vitiate or Palpatine. Palpatine can also destroy planets with Death Star rays (but not with the force)
Palpatine can destroy planets because he can create whirlpools of destruction
Palpatine could drain a planet as well
Vitiate / tenabris unquestionably… man possessed over 46 individuals, survived or 3000 years, built 2 empires for his own whim, his daughter is more powerful then palpatine alone. And forged all known dark side stances alone.
Legends Sidious was especially by the time of The Dark Empire Comics
*reads the title*
Uhm me myself and I
For me, Vitiate is the strongest. And I also wanna point out that Tulak Hord could rival with those 3 siths.
Yep, when it comes to the Sith, the more ancient they are, the more powerful they likely were.
@@andrewrebholz Except not really.
I think what made Palpatine quite strong was that he was a well rounded packaged sith lord. Politicial manipulations, sith alchemy & magic, & lightsaber combat. Palpatine's versatility is what made him dangerous.
-But as far as who was the most powerful sith lord to ever live, Nihlus & Vitiate are SO CLOSE as far as raw force power. BUT I would have to agree Vitiate is strongest. He still retained his own will to dominate & live even after 2 of his physical bodies being "killed" since he had essence transfer.
-Nihlus had no choice but to consume worlds in order to keep living, if you count being nothing more than a force entity as living. If you think about it, it was more of a curse than an actual will or desire.
There is one person you are forgetting. *ahem* Please welcome, the Supreme Dark Lord of the Sith. Lord Jar Jar!
Nihilus and revan is my favorite sith lord
One of my candidates for most powerful sith that many tend to ignore or not know of is sithari king adas in part given out of every sith even many star wars characters he has the biggest legacy in having crippled the rakata empire during their prime with a significantly lessor or least smaller army then them. And they were the ones who brought down the celestials who apparently were at least ruled by the same species as the ones if not a full civilization of them and their typically seen as some level of true force deities even if not the strongest compared to some other deities
Finally I found a video that convinces me that Palpatine is actually really powerful. I always figured Vitiate was the most powerful, considering Nihilus is mainly only as strong as he is cause he's a wound in the force or something like that.
Imagine a sith who has all 3 of their qualities combined
that's Vitiate which is why he is the number 1 Sith of all time.
Imagine if Anakin won at mustafar he will have 100 times Darth Sidous's dueling Ability 90 times the force drain power of Darth Nihlus and 50 times the life span and abilities of Darth Vitiate Emperor Vader could have consumed galaxies to survive
Calm down,you are making him overrated..way too much.
@@addaskhasawneh8174 The man is a fanboy
-Conor McGregor 2018
@@monkebrainedfish3130 Yeah literally,we like Anakin but that's just not Anakin at this point,it's the god of the star wars.
@@addaskhasawneh8174 Yup but thats just in the nature of fanboys, they always want their character to win and they dont like their character being weak
In Marvel/DC community there is tons of them
@@monkebrainedfish3130 Yeah I have a friend who is an Marvel fanboy,it's a competition who is worse though.
I've read the Revan book and Vitiate is such a beast in mind control you wouldn't even know he did it and draining the Force and every essence of life from a planet where being on it has no color or sound
You do realize that palpatine was capable of doing the same thing right? The only reason byss didn’t get stripped to the same extent as Nathema was because palpatine didn’t want to rule an empire of dead people
@Aspen he definitely had the power to do it if he wanted
@Aspen that’s true. The main thing is that guys like vitiate or nhilius were only able to drain planets because of a ritual (like vitiate did the first time) or because they were a force wound, palpatine didn’t need either to do what he did
@Aspen that’s why I didn’t mention ziost since vitiate didn’t need as much preparation time as he did with nathema. I know nhilius was gifted with force drain but part of why he was so good at it is because he was a wound in the force
@Aspen no argument there
Sidious is truly the most powerful Sith Lord of all time. What many people don't seems to realize is that he was able to use his force powers from distance across the galaxy such as holding an entire grip of his empire from his palace through telepathy and force dominating mind combined, and he was able to collectivity drain life essence across the galaxy. Vitiate would be no match with him in 1v1 as Sidious would collect all the life essence from the galaxy to increase his strength and speed in combat. He was even able to consume a planet without any complex ritual.
The thing that I also like to take into account is that while palpatine was very successful his absolute rule only lasted 20 years and then a few years when he returned (but his empire wasn't as big anymore) while Vitiate ruled for over a millennium which is quite a successful feat in itself.
The problem is, he ruled a small region, whilst Palpatine ruled the ENTIRE galaxy
@@mister_silent6 small region? Not really. Entire galaxy? Also not really.
@@Blackdeathgaming-yv1kk Yes
@@mister_silent6 Palpatine never controlled the unknown regions he is right. people always forget that part of the galaxy exists.
I believe that strength is the ability to do whatever you want without worrying about danger so Nihlus would be the weakest since he has to always be thinking about his next meal being essentially a slave to his hunger which makes him even weaker then the average citizen, even I am more powerful then Nihlus from my point of view
It doesn't make him weak, lmao.
If Nihilus wished, he could completely remove all life on earth in a matter of minutes.
You or any other citizen, for that matter, would not stand a chance against him
@@Bradious he is weak as he is not been considered a sith, barely so as even Darth Kreia states, he's more of a monster than a sentient man.
Hmm mental-wise,huh? That could be true.Strength-wise,obviously not.
@@arandomgreekfrombactria6302 yet he still is more powerful than vitiate. it doesn’t matter if he is a monster, he still consumed countless force sensitives and became invincible, binding his soul to his armor.
@@blu4390 no he’s not stronger than vitiate every thing Nihilus can do vitiate can do and better
Nihilus for sure. He was a constant.
Say what you will about Episode 9, but Palpatine shooting lightning into the sky to disable all the Resistance ships was the most impressive feat outside of the Mortis Gods and Bendu
I agree with you completely. It is not to forget that since the rule of 2 was established, just 2 sith could exist at a given time. This made it very unlikely to have incredibly powerful sith, because your poll of choice only has 2 balls.
In the old republic era there wars tenth of thousands of sith, of course the chance of finding one stronger than Siduous is very very high.
I would even exaggerate and say that Palpatine is on pair with someone like Darth Thanaton in terms of power
Thanaton is nowhere near Sidious in power tbh, Sidious is on the same level as Vitiate, Nihilus and Plagueis (the four of them are the planetary level sith of the star wars universe). Thanaton is nowhere near force storm level.
@@yggunshot8402 lol, come on, Siduous is nowhere near vitiante or nihilus. Everybody mentioning Palpatine's force storms, but other than in the shitty New trilogy (which to me is not Canon) we never actually see him performing such an ability, his maximum force lightning power was a little more than what we see in revenge of the sith.
Not to mention Thanaton is in some comics where he is young and seem to be able to do massive force storms himself
@@babyyoda8233 Ahh ok now I see why you don't believe Sidious is on the same level as Vitiate and Nihilus, you haven't actually read/played much of the material based on eu Sidious (this isn't meant to be an offensive comment, I can just tell). To start things off, the force storms created by Palpatine are not what you think they are. There are two types of force storms, one is the lightning force storm you are thinking of (used by Thanaton, Revan and Bane) and the second is literally a hyperspace wormhole capable of tearing through space and time (the one used by Palpatine) they both share the same name. Palpatine's version of the force storm was capable of destroying entire fleets, moons and planets ranging from their surface to the entire planet itself, he uses them in the dark empire trilogy. They can also be used to transport people through space and time and they can be created and controlled from light-years away. It is physically the most destructive dark side ability seen in the eu (seeing as it actually caused physical destruction and literally tore mass apary as opposed to causing decay or simply draining life on a planet). The dark staff of the sith empire also had this power and was renowned for the ability. Palpatine also has a bunch of other insane feats like telepathically mind wiping and dominating the entire population of the planet Coruscant, Indefinitely force draining the planet Byss (without a ritual just like Nihilus) so that he could constantly drain from the ever growing population, using the dark side to cloud the minds of the entire prequel trilogy jedi order (this is thousands of jedi, although he did this with help from Plagueis to be fair), using battle meditation on the entire imperial military during the battle of endor as confirmed int he Thrawn novels etc. As you can see, Palpatine has more planetary level feats than any other sith lord with the possible exception of Nihilus, who is heavily implied to have drained multiple planets off screen.
In echoes of oblivion we see that Vitiate is finally defeated and wiped out of Satele's mental plain when all the force users wronged by Vitiate team up to drag his spirit into the chaos. Interestingly enough, Sidious was defeated the exact same way in empired end, only difference is that after containing, Palpatine's essence, brand was assisted by the dead spirits of all the jedi when dragging Sidious spirit into the chaos.
Now to address the force lightning debate (even though the force storm confusion was actually a separate thing), it is very arguable that Sidious is better than Thanaton in this category. Whilst Thanaton certainly has access to what is undoubtedly the largest array of lightning based force powers (rivaled only by Galen Marek in that regard) the raw power of his lightning is not quite as impressive as that of Sidious, his fully powered direct blasts combined with sorcery could hardly even put a dent in Darth Nox. Sidious was capable of doing some pretty crazy stuff with force lightning and was only really rivaled by Valkorion, Galen Marek and Bane when it comes to lightning. For one thing, Sidious can actually disintegrate beings with his lightning granted he has rarely gone to this extent (used it to disintegrate 3 dark side adepts as well as a massive creature once) which alone is some pretty high intensity only replicated by Malgus and Galen (although Vitiate has killed stronger force users like Marr giving him the edge in this category). Sidious also causally defeated Galen Marek with his force lightning whilst Galen was in a state with oneness with the force (I'm sure you know what oneness is) and caused a massive explosion blowing up his entire throne room as well as everyone in proximity in doing so. He also casually one shotted multiple jedi with lightning whilst he was dying in empire's end. Lastly, while he may not have been quite as expansive in his array of various lightning abilities, he did still posses the ability to create force lightning shields, and create planetary level lightning storms on Vjun with his mere presence.
With all of this being said, I think it is pretty clear that you underestimate Palpatine quite a bit, he is an extremely powerful sith lord and more than deserving of standing amongst Vitiate and Nihilus.
@@yggunshot8402 Wait wait wait wait. I am not underestimating anybody, and you are doing an out of the line analysis.
Yes, I have played i would say every single Star wars game since 2005, (haven't played very old games pre-2005), and I would say I am on pair with what happens in the majority of comics, because even though the amount I actually read is not that big, I always read summaries and watch videos for the ones I don't personally read.
The point is, we are comparing the Canon Siduous with Vitiate and Nihilus, not the Legends/EU Sidious. Most of his very very powerful abilities are seen in legends stuff, if you take that out Sidious is just a squishy sith
@@babyyoda8233 Sorry, you seemed to give off that impression since you stated that you had never seen Sidious use a force storm, didn't know you were referring to canon Sidious. Why would you want to compare canon Sidious with them anyway? Ideally a discussion involving these three particular characters would be an indication to use legends Sidious for reference seeing as that is their shared continuity, it isn't like canon would take precedence in this scenario.
How could Vitiate control the mind of Nihilus if there is no mind to control?
Maybe but Nihilus could severe both of their connections to the force if I’m not mistaken
Tennebrea actually used a ritual on nathrma but he didn't need the ritual for ziost anymore the death made it possible for him to actually consume the whole planet beside tennebrea was born strong and became a littraly force deity
My definition of power is a dragon that can eat entire galaxy and then spit it out as vomit, making it into a nebula. A creature that would only exist my constellation that I have thoroughly written.
1. Revan has specifically been called more powerful than nihilus.
In terms of power Revan was, excluding valkorion, the most powerful force-wielder in galactic history. He was like the heart of the force, his presence was like a galactic wide disturbance in the force that was everywhere and nowhere at once. It was so powerful in fact that it allowed non-Force sensitives to be able to feel the Force travel under their skin and into their lungs, heart and gut. Even more so, in his dark days, way before his prime, his presence left a dark stain that could be felt after many years. His power grew beyond imagination, beyond the wildest dreams and fantasies of any Jedi or sith. It’s not that they never did imagine or wanted to imagine, it’s that they literally couldn’t possibly imagine. He was stated to be beyond Nihilus the devourer of worlds who was only beaten my multiple PIS/ OP plot device factors combining. He has been called the most talented Jedi ever, having a potential that is quote “unlimited”, he was the most powerful champion the republic ever produced, a literal god of war among the mandalorians, to the point they though touching him would give luck for generations to come. He was called the greatest warrior of the entire age.
All and all he was second only to valkorion. Also the quote sidious is the most powerful sith ever cant apply to Revan or valkorion because both their primes were after they were sith.
'Most powerful Sith ever' extends to every time period in Star Wars.
You're clearly lowballing Sidious. Revan isn't taking on the four best saber users from the Jedi Order's strongest council ever. The Jedi Council at the height of their power (from political influence to lightsaber duelists all the way to the skill of their force powers) sent their best duelists AND THEY STILL LOST. In the novelization, Sidious was overpowering Windu's Vapaad with his force lightning.
This is JUST one scene in Star Wars. Revan would not have survived if you put him in the same spot as Sidious. The force DIRECTLY intervened against Sidious on a few occasions. That's UNHEARD of, in all of legends and canon. He's the only figure the force itself directly opposed. That alone is WAY beyond what any other Sith (arguably any other being) has ever achieved.
id say Nihilus would win if he would manage to use his Ability to block force connection but if he wouldnt than Vitiate sorry but Sidious just doesnt compare to Old Republic Sith
Valkorion doesn’t compare to Sidious
@@achimpanzee9210??? sidous is weak compared to old sith
3:41 where is that from
Question: Would it be possible for nihilus to be redeemed to the light side?
Very unlikely
It is impossible imo
Pretty sure it's impossible. Nihilus would've barely been capable of reason.
impossible the only way he can live is by draining people. you cant do that if you're good.
Palpaltine definitely would win if we consider his DE self
@Aspen it's been stated to be galactic level in de he violates any sith before him too because of holocrons, plaguis's lessons
There’s also Marka Ragnos
Vitiate consumed planets like nihilus but didn’t need to.
Lived for 1500 successfully switching bodies multiple times and ruling and starting two empires.
Almost became god and Jedi wasn’t enough to finally kill him it was literally the whole galaxy.
So in my conclusion he is the gigachad of the sith
Oh and he didn’t need to manipulate he just dominated people’s mind
Vitiate didn't consume planets "like" Nihilus did. Vitiate could and did consume planets, but had to direct his energy/force to do so. Nihilus would do it passively. Just Nihilus' mere presence and distance to a planet was enough to drain it. Of course this does mean that Nihilus had to be fairly close to planets to drain them compared to Vitiate, but being able to do so passively is absolutely insane
Issue here I have is Vitatie as himself won't be able to defeat Nihilus like he did with Revan because Mind Tricks do not work on Wounds of the force like Darth Nihilus. I can see Valkorian beating him but as Vitatie or Tenebrae no. Also Darth Nihilus loses to him due to Valkorian's Force Storm.
But the way I see it
1. Valkorian
2. Nihilus
3. DE Palpatine
4. Vitatie
5. OT/PT Palpatine
I think it's too contrictory as plaguise Palpatine, nilhilus, traya and viate have all been called the most powerful sith or even Darkside user on multiple occasions the strongest is up to the writer of the story. until someone clears up the contridictions
Plaugeis was explicitly surpassed right upon his death as the book shows Palpatine gaining a massive boost in power(many sith apprenictes grow stronger like that) and he was already only slightly weaker than Plaugeis.
Basically Plaugeis was the most powerful BANITE Sith until the end of the novel
Its not contradictory,those statemenst apply only up to their time.
Nihilus was strongest,then Vitiate surpassed him and became strongest,then Palpatine surpassed him etc
@@newhybrid101 ok thanks for informing me
@@newhybrid101 Palpatine was in a state of oneness after killing Plagueis (hence that power boost where he manipulates the stars and sends dark energy all around coruscant) that wasn't his base power lol.
Mandatory comment of "i was here"
Dont worry he didnt heard the tragedy of Darth plagueis the wise
Is Exar Kun not in this battle?
I think Sidious is either second or 3rd most powerful Sith but Vitiate is number 1. his 1,500 year experience alone makes him very dangerous.
The last star wars movie should be strictly discluded.
Say you haven't read any sourcebooks, without saying it:
Sweet 👍
Id say tie but if it was just straight raw.power nihilus takes it
Nihilus, end of story, the guy eats planets like ravioli.
If Nihlus was at a distance from vitiate i truly think he could win, however is close range vitiate wins
I have a huuuuuuge question to ask you pls respond
Go for it!
@@VadersFortress so you remember in star wars IX Rise of Skywalker, well when Rey went to exogul however you spell it the planet of the sith. there were all these guys wearing cloaks and were chanting at Rey, who are they?
I think they were sith cultists. Unfortunately the film didn't explain much
@@VadersFortress hmm, honestly I would guess their like an ancient civilization that made the empire. thanks for the answer!
I honestly agree that Palpatine is the Most powerful for one because he is THE SENATOS and for the fact that he could: drain life of planets better than Valkorion/Vitiate, create wormholes that could destroy planets, dominate the minds of everyone on a planet and corrupt them with his presence, having his battle meditation over the entire Galaxy!!,mind wipe billions of people, scorch planets with his lightning and hide a super star destroyer in plain site.
He could not drain life from planet better than Vitiate... i'm agree on the fact that Sidious from Dark Empire is the most powerful Sith lord of all time but Vitiate stopped to be a Sith when he became Valkorion and this version of Vitiate is something above. They needed the whole Sith and Jedi order to finally striking him down (The Outlander, Satele Shan, Revan, Lord Scourge, The Valkorion familly, etc...) and they did not even killed him completely, Vitiate trully passed out in 67 BBY. Peoples who think that Sidious is more powerful than Vitiate just don't understand the character, you can't compare the dark side knowledges of someone who lived thousand of years, Sidious needed to transfer his essence to cheat death, Vitiate also used this abillity but it wasn't necessary due to his ritual on Nathema. Mate... this ritual killed 8 thousand Sith lords in 5 seconds, he did the same thing with Ziost while Sidious took decades to drain all the life from Byss. In conclusion, Sidious could have been in the same range as Vitiate due to his high force sensitivity, but the acquirable dark side knowledges of his era is just not something you can compare with, due to many destroyed holocrons after the collapse of the old Sith empire.
@@K.J.Richard It took every jedi that ever lived to defeat palpatines spirit and valkorion is the same person as vitiate no difference in power as he needed rituals while palpatine did not
@@F3AN0RXINFERN0 Wrong, Luke Skywalker outsmarted him alone, and Valkorion is way more powerful than Vitiate in every sphere.
@@K.J.Richard Luke did not outsmart sidious alone he had his allies help with that and yes vitiate and valkorion were equals as noted by darth Marrs notice of valkorions strength in power was roughly equal to that of vitiates
Finally someone who is placing Vitiate above Sidious.
@The Bear What can Sidious do that Vitiate cannot??
Come on guys everyone knows who the most powerful sith lord is..
It’s Darth Jar Jar obviously
Sidious = Vitiate > Vader >= Revan >= Bane
If there was a top 5 or top 10, would Darth Bane be anywhere on that list?
Darth Nihilus was the most powerful.
My argument is that Palps is the strongest sith and the basis of my argument is appeal to authority (Lucas said it)😊
proof of ones powerful overpowers any statement. and Vitiate proved that he is more powerful than Sidious.
Malgus 1v50 Jedi and cion couldn’t die and PALPATINE is in this video??
2 words
Darth
Nihilus
No
But only the Papa have UNLIMITED POWAAA 🙄
I find it very interesting how people think Darth Nihilus can be placed among the likes of Palpatine/Vitiate/Luke. Nihilus is definitely nowhere near these 3 in terms of overal feats. Even with his planet wide force drain, Nihilus cannot compete with the Top 5 dark side force users.
Nihilus should be placed among Vader, Bane, Naga Sadow and Count Dooku. Nihilus could be placed higher or even become the strongest Sith lord if he had consumed all the force users in the galaxy, but unfortunately he got defeated by Meetra Surik before he could accomplish this.
Now I think about it, Vitiate was alive around the time Nihilus roamed the galaxy. So Nihilus can't win anyway.
If it weren't for Meetra being a wound in the force no one/nothing would've stopped Nihilus until the entire universe would be consumed. Nihilus would cut Vitiate's connection to the force whilst consuming it and becoming that much more powerful
Tulak Horde
1:Darth Sidious
2:Vitiate
3:Darth Nihilius
vitiate number 1 sorry
@@SurvivedTenHag Sidious has multiple statements as the most powerful Sith and was a Dark Side Nexus by DE. Yeah. Sidious is definitely more powerful.
@@sharkfinsoap8318 yes, but did you saw Tenebrae Valkorion Vitiate in Star Wars The Old Republic???
@@matteobortolotto5809 Have you ever even seen Dark Empire? Vitiate is powerful, no doubt, but Sidious is stronger.
Edit: read*
@@matteobortolotto5809 the first time i played that game I thought he totally is the strongest force user. But after checking most sw debate forum I changed my mind. First of all you should read dark empire and its lore
I have to go with Nihilus here even though I love all 3 Nihilus had the unique force wound within him that made him basically unbeatable unless your another force wound plus he's a ghost and has more raw power than either of these other 2 siths... Vitiates power was immense but it only could stay that way l because he had to perform rituals in order to maintain his power by stealing others where as palpatine gained his through knowledge mainly and nihilus didn't require any rituals to gain his but instead his were gained through a cataclysmic event and yes palpatine wins lightsaber wise but overall Nihilus would come out on top
I could go on and on about how Tulak Hord was more powerful then any of them however I will leave it with a simple statement: he literally created a Sith Holocron that these sith learned from.
@Aspen I don't mind if you disagree, it's not that big of a deal, however, Darth Nox was not Tulak Hord therefore I don't think that Nox's power had anything to do with Hord's. However, even if somehow they were connected then let me say this: Malgus was a regular modern sith, Hord was an ancient sith. And as it was said "the modern sith are but puppets compared to the ancient sith." Hord fought singlehandedly and defeated thousands of other force wielders. Vs, Malkus who was defeated. Hord on the other hand was NEVER defeated in any attack since he was born! The only time he was even remotely defeated was when he was stabbed in the back by his appearance when he was in his old age. And yet even then his appearance refused to attack him face on because he knew he would never be able to kill him. It's all to say that Hord was far more feared by those that knew him.
So as I said, I'm not trying to change your mind I'm simply explaining why I believe he would win a duel with anyone. So if you disagree I'm not saying you are wrong I'm simply saying I don't understand it. Also thank you for commenting. :)
@Aspen As far as Malgus I do agree, he definitely would pose a threat to Hord! Now as far as ones like Nihlus that consumed worlds, I think they did that because they needed to in order to achieve their goals. Hord on the other hand managed to rule the ancient sith without needing to consume worlds. Point being that he might have been capable of SOOO much and yet didn't need to. So little is known of him that it is hard to tell. But simply based on what we do know of him, (creating one of the most desired holocrons), I believe he is more powerful than what he showed/was recorded. Not to mention the fact that he literally erased a being from all existence via an ancient sith ritual.
But I do agree, based on what we see and what is known, Tulak does not seem to be as powerful. However I believe that there is more to him than meets the eye
So essentially..........................They are Specialist
DE Sidious > Valkorion > GM Luke >~ Rotj Sidious >~~ Krayt Reborn > Rots Sidious
Really wonder if Luke can beat them
Prime Luke(60s age)?Anyone that knows anything him in legends knows he would do it EASILY all three of them at once while having a goofy ass smile and exterting absolutely no effort
Honestly he surpassed DE Sidious at the age of 29-30 who was much stronger than OG trilogy Sidious who was much stronger than ROTS Sidious who stated to be the strongest Sith ever which means above Vitiate who is above Nihilus
To be fair he could move black hole so maybe but I don’t think all three at once
GM luke farts and these three will dies due to shockwave