Have to love the Amtrak Engineer that gave our railfan host "Shave and a haircut" on the horn going past at 4:30. :-) I really need to ride them more often.
I’m that high schooler that will be lamenting the loss of the color-lights thanks to you, Danny! I’m also lamenting the searchlights, too. They used to guard my old railfanning spot on BNSF’s St. Croix sub in Northwestern Wisconsin.
haha the passing of the Safetran colorlight signals comment. lol. those signals still have the Safetran logo on them but respectively, they are now made by Siemens! Great video like always DH! I am glad I can appreciate these old signals as much as any other rail/signal fan would.
Danny , thanks for another great video and presentation. When UP took over the Moffat sub they started replacing the search lights here also. Thankfully they have invested in the Moffat, just not as many trains run. Still enjoy the climb from DENVER to the east portal.
Lucky for us up here in Canada, CN and CP were both still installing new installations with searchlights well into the 21st century. We will be enjoying searchlights for a while yet and I'm thankful for that!
“…will lament the passing…” That’s exactly how I felt (and still feel) when CSX took down the old B&O CPLs in my hometown during this same timeframe. I’m glad I got to enjoy seeing them while I could, traveling around town driving a school bus and being stuck by trains in this busy territory with multiple interlockings between CSX and NS lines. We had a BUNCH of those beautiful CPL roundels around, all sadly gone and changed to the modern three-heads.
and here I sat wondering why I felt like the only one who likes traffic lights, Emergency lights and rail signals. great video keep up the history lessons on lights and signal's.
Gradually getting a better understanding of signals thanks to your videos . Interesting how it compares and contrasts with CP & CN systems up here in the great white north .
I work on the Brush Sub in Colorado the first line to ever use CTC. As a rail fan I miss the old searchlight signals but as a railroader the new lights are so much better. Great work Danny, love the videos.
This is what I've always figured. Those mechanical signals must be really maintenance intensive. Newer lights with no moving parts and much more reliable bulbs. Thanks!
Hello Danny. The signals at Cherry were likely installed during the days of the SCL as opposed to the ACL, based on the condition of the paint, mast, etc. If you look at SCL signal aspect charts, you can note that there are NO separated heads listed in the aspects. Whereas the ACL likely used the separated heads used for the purposes mentioned in the video, the SCL policy was to NOT separate the heads, likely for the sole purpose of cheapness and the simple fact that to them, it was unnecessary. Lower mast=lower cost, right? Indeed, this trait was carried over to CSX, where you will not see any "gaps" between signal heads in new installations. The movement away from the "gaps" is actually nation wide. The Southern Railway, ATSF, and UP (just to name a few) all used to have separated heads for restricting signals, but abandoned the idea in favor of either "closing the gap" as we see in the example of Cherry siding (ATSF and UP) or adding a 3rd, middle head when necessary (current NS policy). Again, I cannot confirm this, but based on the trends seen elsewhere in the USA in these searchlight's time period, this would certainly explain it. Since you are so interested in signals, I recommend that you check out an excellent blog by "Jersey Mike." It provides a lot of info and insight into why signals work the way they do. position-light.blogspot.com Hope I helped you out! :)
I'm one of the very few railfans that like the new signals, but only because I can see them better in my aging years. Fine video as usual Danny, I enjoyed it!
Actually this was very informative to me. I always wondered why there were so many lights and what they meant. One would think all u would need is one green or red light to show clear or not. Very interesting to know. Thank you!
so informative and thanks to your previous videos on signal understanding I totally understood this video. The signal videos were very helpful for some railfanning I did in princeton IN. as well. thanks for all the great videos DS.
CSX still has a bunch of these signals on the line from Corbin Ky to Cincinnati. I filmed them a couple weeks ago with the last circus train passing them.
Jaw Tooth and Distant Signal, it’s been rumored on my area between Cincinnati and Corbin that PTC is headed our way. So soak up the videos of all the searchlights you can get!
When the UP bought the "Espee" here on the Santa Barbara subdivision, they very quickly got rid of the searchlight signals. I think they made blocks longer in the process (outside of my expertise) ... they definitely made the siding longer in my hometown of Ventura. In any case, I really enjoy this and your videos...
The phantom middle head is a legacy of the SAL/ACL days without a lunar indication. R/-/Y was Restricting while R/Y was Medium Approach. The Former Southern part of NS is still set up this way. A "two" headed signal under that system cannot display Restricting. Once Lunar came on the scene the gap was unnecessary and was only left in place as a legacy arrangement with newer signals getting a close spaced arrangement with lunar on the lower head. Former Erie RR territory on Conrail had a similar arrangement that was made redundant by R/Y Restricting.
Cool Things, it was an old barber shop jingle if I recall correctly; went like this: "singing accapella{no instruments}": Shave and a haircut...pause...2 bits {2 bits would have been 50¢ for a haircut and a shave at the time this was used} And many people will also knock on something with their knuckles that would intone this tune. And that's what the horn on the Amtrak train was sounding when it passed Danny Harmon filming the trains. When I used to rail fan {when I could} I got to know quite a lot of CSX engineers and conductors, so when they passed by me in areas where the might not be a road crossing, I'd get horn blows of various types from them as they passed by, letting me know they knew me and they were blowing to say hello.
Danny, what I can tell you as an Amtrak employee, former freight conductor for CSX and a current railroad "junkie" is that there are two types of sidings. SSDG's and CSDG's. Signaled Sidings and Controlled Sidings. After looking in my timetable, I've noticed that you were correct in saying Cherry is a CSDG. It is odd to me because, a SSDG usually can give a speed through the siding. A CSDG can usually only give a restricting signal because that type of siding is technically "TWC" inside of signalled territory. It is up to the crew of a train to stop if need be. In a SSDG, the signal equipment can tell if there is a train or piece of equipment occupying the block. Maybe when the new signals go in at Cherry it will become a SSDG. I would love to know if you find out new information on this. Thanks. Keep up the awesome videos. -John Papp (Amtrak Carman, Newport News, VA)
Thanks for writing, John. Yes, I had no idea about Controlled versus Signaled sidings before I did this video. Had a couple of CSX dispatchers show me the difference. Does Amtrak have a lot of traffic thru New Port News? My wife and I were thru there on a road trip in September 2016. Loved the area. Thanks again for the info. I'll let you know what they do when the new signals go in on the lakeland sub here in Florida. DH
Distant Signal, we have to trains a day. Train 66 departs here at 5:20P and goes to Boston. Inbound numbers are 67 on the week days and 65 on holidays and week ends. Train 94 departs here at 8:30A on the week days and 9A on the week ends as train 96. 94/96's equipment lays over here in our storage track over night. Let me know if you are ever in the area again. I could show you some "behind the scenes" stuff. -John
Man this makes me sad. Living on the Yuma sub born to late to see any Southern Pacific or Searchlight in my area. All concrete tracks. Great informative video!
I was going from Columbia, SC to Greenville, SC today, and thought I'd take US-76, which parallels the CN&L, now part of CSX. I didn't have a radio, so I was banking on signals near the road to tell me if there would be any trains - no luck, only a brief glimpse of a switcher near Pomaria at the Georgia Pacific Paper Mill. I had missed a turn just before Clinton that would take me up to 26 to finish the trip and was looking for a turnaround when I heard a train horn and saw a short load of tankers, not sure if they were full but they were marked for Hydrogen Chloride. Sometimes happy accidents happen.
Looks like these signals are still around in CSX's Canadian lines down in Chatham-Kent, ON, Canada. The Chatham Sub may be abandoned since 2006 but there's plenty of track left despite CN buying up the route from Chatham to Blenheim, ON. Last time I checked, they even keep the bulbs lit up in those old signals near the CN and CP diamonds from the good old days.
Danny sounded like the first Amtrak train at Mango gave you a special toot sequence on the horn just for you. Another one of your very interesting videos.
I enjoyed seeing the New York Central searchlights around Buffalo, NY. As of a couple days ago the NYC Searchlights have fallen. New ones are replacing them.
With regards to the three position dwarf signals on the ACL . I worked for the N&W on the former P&WV one of the alphabet lines. There dwarf signals had three position's one each for green, yellow, or red. While on the former NKP from Brewster to Pittsburgh Jct. the dwarf signals were single position with three lenses red, yellow and green. Because the lines were at one time separate railroads they had different CTC systems
I remember in Salem Oregon, the UP had an old SP cantilever signal, but it was replaced in 2013 as part of the quiet zone project, completed in July 2013. Unfortunately, as of now, there will be another quiet zone just north of downtown Salem, all of the crossing improvements have been completed, and signage up, but there is black bags up on the signs..for now. Sad to see the horns go, I've wanted to railfan there for a long time. At least they're not gone yet!
I also lament the passing of some GRS searchlight signals here in my neck of the woods. In the years of the Maine Central Railroad, they had searchlights on what they called their Searsport Branch. Back in the 1980's, Pan Am Railways acquired Maine Central and since rail traffic was decreasing over the years in my part of the state, there was no need for signals on that line. It's a shame that it happened, but Pan Am removed all the signals from the Searsport Branch. Railroads in Maine are not as busy as they once were these days.
Great video, Danny. There are still a few searchlights hanging out around Taft Yard near where I live; I'm trying to save the single head signal at the south end of the yard for functional display in the Central Florida Railroad Museum in Winter Garden.
I think BNSF still has a bunch of searchlights and semaphores on the Raton Pass line between Lamy, NM and Trinidad, CO and most are visible from I-25. I was shocked and amazed to see the semaphores still in use when I first went thru there. I hear their days may be numbered if the state of New Mexico gets funding to upgrade the line. The line is a real throwback to old school railroading with the vintage signals and jointed rail.
Always sad to see old equipment get taken down. I remember these signals here in SoCal on the Cajon Subdivision. Santa Fe mounted bi-directional searchlight heads on a single mast, and that looked odd. The searchlights are long gone, replaced by SafeTran 'Darth Vader' signals. However, the Union Pacific still has a set of searchlight signals on the SPSF crossover in Cajon constructed in the 80s. Thanks for sharing with us Danny! Another gem ya got there.
I worked MOW at pico tower (LA Sub) back in 2008....there was a pile of these old relic searchlights and pot signals tossed in a rollup bin sent out for scrap.
Danny, I think you nailed it with the explanation that Controlled Sidings had the tall spacing as if there was a middle head, offering a "Slow approach" aspect or restricting. The thing is not all the sidings were built as controlled sidings, some were actually built as Signaled sidings. I can only recollect my time there prior to 2004 but there were three sidings that had signals in and out, especially if we had to pass another train. DeLand siding was one, Haines City Siding was another. Maybe Bensen Jct.? It's kinda foggy now. I just know the signals going into the siding had to be able to show a Medium Approach or even a Medium Approach Medium instead of just a lunar Restricting. Anyhow the short signals probably used to be a signaled siding but were swapped out as traffic decreased.
Thanks! Yes, I've been trying to find out why ACL installed some Controlled sidings and some Signaled sidings. I've always assumed the Controlled sidings were not intended to hold more than one train at a time and the Signaled sidings could. Just a guess on my part.
Distant Signal they did not teach us this stuff in little conductor school but the common sense was that the controlled sidings were for the situation where a train could set off a cut of cars and leave them behind. While today's rules would require the siding to have derails on both ends, electronically it would not have any issues because another train could just reach in and grab the cut on a restricting aspect, whereas in a signaled siding they would need permission from the dispatcher to pass a stop signal. Similar mechanics for the purpose of a runaround maneuver where a crew could secure their train inside the siding and then move the power to the other end of the train. The dispatcher could control the switches and everything was done from the lights in the field.
Searchlight signals are modern to me. The railroad through my county in Southern Indiana only has a couple of those things. Most of our signals are Semaphores that the Monon installed back around 1910.
I know I'm late. But... In regards to your question about the spacing - not all controlled sidings are considered dark territory. In fact, typically a "controlled" or "Signalled" siding is not at all considered dark territory and whether or not it indicates occupancy or rail status on the signals directly, it does display it to the dispatcher as necessary information to have when they are lining routes and setting the signals (the dispatcher has to line/confirm a route before lighting the signal). Consequently, not all controlled sidings require restricted speed. If it is a dead end spur, or one that is used primarily as an industry switching siding to keep these movements off the main, then yes it is likely considered to be dark except for the end control points. However, if it is primarily a passing siding or otherwise needs to show occupancy to the dispatcher, it is not generally considered dark and will usually allow for limited or medium speeds, this is where a red over *something* indication would still be used either without the third head altogether or the third head displaying red. Note that turnout speed (based on the radius of the turnout) also plays a part in the indications allowed for diverging or converging routes. What is notable on the Mango signal you pointed out is that there is a platform on the ladder for a middle light, so my guess was at some point there was a lamp there and it was removed when the lunar went in, as that negated the need for a red over red over yellow restricting aspect, since in CSX land, as you mentioned, they'd show red over lunar instead. It was probably easier on the control cabinet side to utilize the lower head for purposes of rewiring the logic since the lower head was already the one utilized in the restricting aspect - Shunt out the lamp detection on the middle head and just replace the yellow lens with a lunar lens. Disclaimer: I've never worked in the industry, but I've done quite a bit of research on signals and have dealt with relay logic systems since I was in high school.
Thanks very much! That's all interesting info. I said "technically" dark territory as I know it's not officially that, But the dispatchers told me that in a Controlled Siding, there was no circuitry beyond the turnout circuit that would indicate occupancy in the siding.
I just did a Distant Signal marathon over my last 3 days off. I came home from work tonight and there this was ! Love when you do a signals video. My only wish is that you would more videos ! Your part one scanner video leads me to believe that you might be a Ham? de WA8SDF here.
73 Jim, de WA4CIF...I too would think Danny is a ham. But from all indications he never got his ticket. He seems to prefer trains and his gig at FOX13 in Tampa!
Hi Jerry. Ahhh ok... maybe he will chime in? He got my attention when he started to talk about 5/8th wave rubber duckies and roof mounts. I did program my Yeasu VX6 2 meter /440 handheld for railroads. It has a bubba-jillion bands, so I didn't compromise any ham frequencies, and it has a lot better s/n ratio than a run of the mill Radio Shack scanner. Plus it's waterproof! I'm usually on 40 meters on MIDCARS-SOUTHCARS-EASTCARS during the mornings . 73 Jim
Thanks very much, Jim. Yes, I'm a ham but only a tech. I really only got my ticket for mobile scanner protection against anti-scanner laws in other states. But yes, have loved the two-way since I was in 6th grade.
theres a couple of the searchlight signals by the yard where I live in Elmira, NY. I always go there when the weather is nice to shoot trains, after watching your videos on how to read signals..........I have a general idea what they now mean
no. the area is heavily patrolled by the local PD and NSPD is also usually there. I was train watching one day and I always got a friendly wave from the engineers and police officers.
Danny, the SCL did indeed have restricting signals, especially up at Richmond and Rocky Mt. Doug Riddell referenced it several times in his book "From the Cab".
Distant Signal When I was at Crawford a few weeks ago, Norfolk Southern 209 went through the interlocking and after that the signal went to RED-RED-YELLOW for 229. I assumed that was a restricting signal on NS.
CSX just removed the former New York Central searchlight signal bridges up in Buffalo, NY last weekend. Next up are the Conrail G Type signals moving west. It's sad to see some of these signals go, but progress has to be made.
Hello Danny, quick question for you. I railfan a lot in Montgomery, IL and just found a fixed yellow signal that never changes with a "D" plate under the light. Is this a fixed approach? What does the D mean? Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. Todd
You're going to chuckle at this but look at the name of this channel. The "D" means "Distant signal" as opposed to a regular block signal. The correct term is "Fixed distant signal." The name of the applicable rule and indication depend on the railroad involved. It's just a heads-up on an otherwise un-signaled line that an absolute signal that must be obeyed, whatever it shows, is just ahead.
Hey Danny - I think I have your answer for the "controlled siding" at Cherry at 6:11. Why does the 2-signal mast not have a gap in the middle that would eliminate medium speeds? Answer: This was not originally a controlled siding. Therefore, you would need at least approach and stop for the bottom head with no gap. The railroad never bothered to replace the entire signal mast. I ran into the same situation about a month ago here in Virginia with an older Southern Railway signal bridge. At the end of a siding at a switch, the main has ONE 3-light head. The siding has TWO 3-light heads. In this situation, there used to be a crossover with the siding continuing much further straight. But at some point, the second track was taken up and now is just one switch instead of a crossover at this location. So, at the end of a siding, the siding has a 3 over 3 aspect! But Norfolk Southern now has the Darth Vaders in place (temporarily turned sideways), so these old signals will be gone soon at this location.
Haven't gotten over to Palatka in a couple weeks, but I know they were replacing the signals there and even adding one before the station for Northbounds. Have you heard anything more?
Do you have any shots of those old signal man shacks? I vaguely recall one from my youth where the worker waited to manually lower an arm at a grade crossing. It was in New Milford CT. I believe it even had a cast iron heater in it.
I like the old searchlight types as well. I live in Canada and noticed that cn rail signals are always on or lit up where as the cp rail signals only come on when a train enters the block. I always wondered why that is,
As always Danny you give lots of good information, now question. I am looking for an app so I can see a section of the railroad like a dispatch sees. All the blocks and where the trains are.
When searchlight signals were being replaced on a BNSF line in Ca, I was watching a guy who was trying to steal one on the ground, but it was too heavy for him to lift into the back of his truck!😄
Glad I have an H2 internal mech in my bedroom. And I managed it for a very low price too! Old signal hardware just can't be beat in terms of quality. Don't understand why they absolutely need to be replaced for ptc. If not the H2 or SA signals then the NYC tri lights or color lights. They would work fine with processors linked to the old relays. Just need to switch the right amount of voltage and amperage.
Those are all US&S searchlights. Up here in Minnesota the remaining searchlights are about an even mix of US&S and GRS models. About the only way to tell them apart besides reading the label is the lens shade. Oh, and Cherry if is a standard controlled siding (I have no reason to doubt you), does it have a turnout speed faster than slow? If so, a medium or faster speed turnout would explain the head-spacing. Many railroads left the middle head out if they only needed to show slow or restricting signals, whether there was a controlled siding or not.
What does CSX do with the old searchlight, “Y” pattern, and dwarf signals that are being replaced-and would you want to get one if possible? (I guess I’d ask the same question about the crossing signals as well since some are replaced and some crossings are closed.)
believe it or not, im in high school right now and i actually just saved an EX Reading Searchlight signal, it has 2 heads spaced closer together and they each can display a Red, Green or yellow on each. Working on restoring it at the moment but cant wait to get it up and lit once again!
CSX pretty much replaced all their old searchlights and ACL color lights last year here on the Charleston Subdivision of the A-Line. Luckily I got a few photos of the searchlights before CSX completely took them out of service. I'm gonna miss them.
Have to love the Amtrak Engineer that gave our railfan host "Shave and a haircut" on the horn going past at 4:30. :-)
I really need to ride them more often.
Fantastic series and explanations. I was a signalman and conductor most of my career, and this is great. Love it
Danny, your videos are the best railfan videos on TH-cam, period.
Thank Youuuuu, Mr Zip!
Mr. Zip Not just the content he films but the commentary is very informative. There is always something new to learn. I agree. best on TH-cam
I’m that high schooler that will be lamenting the loss of the color-lights thanks to you, Danny! I’m also lamenting the searchlights, too. They used to guard my old railfanning spot on BNSF’s St. Croix sub in Northwestern Wisconsin.
haha the passing of the Safetran colorlight signals comment. lol. those signals still have the Safetran logo on them but respectively, they are now made by Siemens! Great video like always DH! I am glad I can appreciate these old signals as much as any other rail/signal fan would.
Danny , thanks for another great video and presentation. When UP took over the Moffat sub they started replacing the search lights here also. Thankfully they have invested in the Moffat, just not as many trains run. Still enjoy the climb from DENVER to the east portal.
Lucky for us up here in Canada, CN and CP were both still installing new installations with searchlights well into the 21st century. We will be enjoying searchlights for a while yet and I'm thankful for that!
Thanks Danny! I still say you're the best railfan video maker of them all. Production quality is absolutely stellar.
I live up in Red Wing, Mn around here we have Canadian Pacific Railway but I love watching your videos I have learned so much.
Good old Milwaukee Road!
“…will lament the passing…”
That’s exactly how I felt (and still feel) when CSX took down the old B&O CPLs in my hometown during this same timeframe.
I’m glad I got to enjoy seeing them while I could, traveling around town driving a school bus and being stuck by trains in this busy territory with multiple interlockings between CSX and NS lines. We had a BUNCH of those beautiful CPL roundels around, all sadly gone and changed to the modern three-heads.
i very much enjoy these invormative-type videos. i learn a lot from them.
and here I sat wondering why I felt like the only one who likes traffic lights, Emergency lights and rail signals. great video keep up the history lessons on lights and signal's.
Gradually getting a better understanding of signals thanks to your videos . Interesting how it compares and contrasts with CP & CN systems up here in the great white north .
Sir, your train videos are awesome ! And your "Radio voice" is icing on the cake !!!
SBF
I have a H2 US&S Searchlight signal from CSX. I love these signals and I hope that most still last longer! Thank you for doing this video!
"Shave and a hair cut, two bits" from the Amtrak engineer is so *me*. I may have to play that segment again. Nice job!
You're not related to Jeff Bradford from Tallahassee and Carrabelle, are you?
Distant Signal the late RG “Jeff” Bradford was my uncle. I met you at his funeral in 2010 , where we had a brief but very nice conversation 😎
Nice video Danny! I always loved the searchlight signals! Brings back the history of all the railroads!
I work on the Brush Sub in Colorado the first line to ever use CTC. As a rail fan I miss the old searchlight signals but as a railroader the new lights are so much better. Great work Danny, love the videos.
This is what I've always figured. Those mechanical signals must be really maintenance intensive. Newer lights with no moving parts and much more reliable bulbs. Thanks!
Hello Danny. The signals at Cherry were likely installed during the days of the SCL as opposed to the ACL, based on the condition of the paint, mast, etc. If you look at SCL signal aspect charts, you can note that there are NO separated heads listed in the aspects. Whereas the ACL likely used the separated heads used for the purposes mentioned in the video, the SCL policy was to NOT separate the heads, likely for the sole purpose of cheapness and the simple fact that to them, it was unnecessary. Lower mast=lower cost, right? Indeed, this trait was carried over to CSX, where you will not see any "gaps" between signal heads in new installations. The movement away from the "gaps" is actually nation wide. The Southern Railway, ATSF, and UP (just to name a few) all used to have separated heads for restricting signals, but abandoned the idea in favor of either "closing the gap" as we see in the example of Cherry siding (ATSF and UP) or adding a 3rd, middle head when necessary (current NS policy). Again, I cannot confirm this, but based on the trends seen elsewhere in the USA in these searchlight's time period, this would certainly explain it. Since you are so interested in signals, I recommend that you check out an excellent blog by "Jersey Mike." It provides a lot of info and insight into why signals work the way they do.
position-light.blogspot.com
Hope I helped you out! :)
At last I've discovered someone interested in catching the remaining searchlight signals before they're gone!
There goes another part of my ACL railfan childhood Danny. Thanks for this one last look.
Something infinitely satisfying about watching and hearing that Amtrak pass by!
I'm with you. Love the horn and the noise of the train whooshing by.
I'm one of the very few railfans that like the new signals, but only because I can see them better in my aging years. Fine video as usual Danny, I enjoyed it!
benchedthatpiece I love them, they look amazing.
Actually this was very informative to me. I always wondered why there were so many lights and what they meant. One would think all u would need is one green or red light to show clear or not. Very interesting to know. Thank you!
Great line at 8:00. That's a really good point. Made me smile knowing that will be me :)
Your videos are packed with fascinating information!
so informative and thanks to your previous videos on signal understanding I totally understood this video. The signal videos were very helpful for some railfanning I did in princeton IN. as well. thanks for all the great videos DS.
Your videos are goals for my channel, sir! I love the stories you tell sometimes!
CSX still has a bunch of these signals on the line from Corbin Ky to Cincinnati. I filmed them a couple weeks ago with the last circus train passing them.
Yo, what are you doing hear?
Jaw Tooth and Distant Signal, it’s been rumored on my area between Cincinnati and Corbin that PTC is headed our way. So soak up the videos of all the searchlights you can get!
There’s still some searchlights in my town at a short line RR and UP interlocking.
When the UP bought the "Espee" here on the Santa Barbara subdivision, they very quickly got rid of the searchlight signals. I think they made blocks longer in the process (outside of my expertise) ... they definitely made the siding longer in my hometown of Ventura. In any case, I really enjoy this and your videos...
The phantom middle head is a legacy of the SAL/ACL days without a lunar indication. R/-/Y was Restricting while R/Y was Medium Approach. The Former Southern part of NS is still set up this way. A "two" headed signal under that system cannot display Restricting. Once Lunar came on the scene the gap was unnecessary and was only left in place as a legacy arrangement with newer signals getting a close spaced arrangement with lunar on the lower head. Former Erie RR territory on Conrail had a similar arrangement that was made redundant by R/Y Restricting.
Shave and a haircut from 91. So generous. lol
Agreed!!!!!
amtark rulz
That was probably Preston Jackson - he's sort of famous in the central Florida railfan community for that alone.
Cool Things, it was an old barber shop jingle if I recall correctly; went like this:
"singing accapella{no instruments}": Shave and a haircut...pause...2 bits {2 bits would have been 50¢ for a haircut and a shave at the time this was used} And many people will also knock on something with their knuckles that would intone this tune.
And that's what the horn on the Amtrak train was sounding when it passed Danny Harmon filming the trains.
When I used to rail fan {when I could} I got to know quite a lot of CSX engineers and conductors, so when they passed by me in areas where the might not be a road crossing, I'd get horn blows of various types from them as they passed by, letting me know they knew me and they were blowing to say hello.
@Cool Things
th-cam.com/video/dxU-SgOtVSM/w-d-xo.html
I agree your railfan video’s are bar none the best out there, thx for what you do.
Always enjoy your videos. Thanks, Danny!
Danny, what I can tell you as an Amtrak employee, former freight conductor for CSX and a current railroad "junkie" is that there are two types of sidings. SSDG's and CSDG's. Signaled Sidings and Controlled Sidings. After looking in my timetable, I've noticed that you were correct in saying Cherry is a CSDG. It is odd to me because, a SSDG usually can give a speed through the siding. A CSDG can usually only give a restricting signal because that type of siding is technically "TWC" inside of signalled territory. It is up to the crew of a train to stop if need be. In a SSDG, the signal equipment can tell if there is a train or piece of equipment occupying the block. Maybe when the new signals go in at Cherry it will become a SSDG. I would love to know if you find out new information on this. Thanks. Keep up the awesome videos. -John Papp (Amtrak Carman, Newport News, VA)
Thanks for writing, John.
Yes, I had no idea about Controlled versus Signaled sidings before I did this video. Had a couple of CSX dispatchers show me the difference. Does Amtrak have a lot of traffic thru New Port News? My wife and I were thru there on a road trip in September 2016. Loved the area. Thanks again for the info. I'll let you know what they do when the new signals go in on the lakeland sub here in Florida.
DH
Distant Signal, we have to trains a day. Train 66 departs here at 5:20P and goes to Boston. Inbound numbers are 67 on the week days and 65 on holidays and week ends. Train 94 departs here at 8:30A on the week days and 9A on the week ends as train 96. 94/96's equipment lays over here in our storage track over night. Let me know if you are ever in the area again. I could show you some "behind the scenes" stuff. -John
4:35 This explains how Amtrak engineers are so nice. I had a horn show when I was railfanning plant city one day too.
Man this makes me sad. Living on the Yuma sub born to late to see any Southern Pacific or Searchlight in my area. All concrete tracks. Great informative video!
Great video. Love the history of those old searchlights!
I was going from Columbia, SC to Greenville, SC today, and thought I'd take US-76, which parallels the CN&L, now part of CSX. I didn't have a radio, so I was banking on signals near the road to tell me if there would be any trains - no luck, only a brief glimpse of a switcher near Pomaria at the Georgia Pacific Paper Mill. I had missed a turn just before Clinton that would take me up to 26 to finish the trip and was looking for a turnaround when I heard a train horn and saw a short load of tankers, not sure if they were full but they were marked for Hydrogen Chloride. Sometimes happy accidents happen.
Great video! Up here in New York State, CSX has replace majority of the NYC signals with the new signals.
Always enjoy your videos.
Danny, I loved this video. You are the best.
Looks like these signals are still around in CSX's Canadian lines down in Chatham-Kent, ON, Canada. The Chatham Sub may be abandoned since 2006 but there's plenty of track left despite CN buying up the route from Chatham to Blenheim, ON.
Last time I checked, they even keep the bulbs lit up in those old signals near the CN and CP diamonds from the good old days.
Distant Signal, Thank you for an interesting lesson on searchlight signals.
Danny sounded like the first Amtrak train at Mango gave you a special toot sequence on the horn just for you. Another one of your very interesting videos.
Shave and a Haircut!!!! Nice Amtrak engineer at mango
I enjoyed seeing the New York Central searchlights around Buffalo, NY. As of a couple days ago the NYC Searchlights have fallen. New ones are replacing them.
Another interesting, excellent video. Thanks again!
With regards to the three position dwarf signals on the ACL . I worked for the N&W on the former P&WV one of the alphabet lines. There dwarf signals had three position's one each for green, yellow, or red. While on the former NKP from Brewster to Pittsburgh Jct. the dwarf signals were single position with three lenses red, yellow and green. Because the lines were at one time separate railroads they had different CTC systems
I remember in Salem Oregon, the UP had an old SP cantilever signal, but it was replaced in 2013 as part of the quiet zone project, completed in July 2013. Unfortunately, as of now, there will be another quiet zone just north of downtown Salem, all of the crossing improvements have been completed, and signage up, but there is black bags up on the signs..for now. Sad to see the horns go, I've wanted to railfan there for a long time. At least they're not gone yet!
cool video and crews, by the way, it's sad to see the signals go.
I also lament the passing of some GRS searchlight signals here in my neck of the woods. In the years of the Maine Central Railroad, they had searchlights on what they called their Searsport Branch. Back in the 1980's, Pan Am Railways acquired Maine Central and since rail traffic was decreasing over the years in my part of the state, there was no need for signals on that line. It's a shame that it happened, but Pan Am removed all the signals from the Searsport Branch. Railroads in Maine are not as busy as they once were these days.
Nice video! I always find railroad artifact history interesting. At 4:38, I've seen Amtrak 121 a few months ago, up in Vermont!
Great video, Danny. There are still a few searchlights hanging out around Taft Yard near where I live; I'm trying to save the single head signal at the south end of the yard for functional display in the Central Florida Railroad Museum in Winter Garden.
I think BNSF still has a bunch of searchlights and semaphores on the Raton Pass line between Lamy, NM and Trinidad, CO and most are visible from I-25. I was shocked and amazed to see the semaphores still in use when I first went thru there. I hear their days may be numbered if the state of New Mexico gets funding to upgrade the line. The line is a real throwback to old school railroading with the vintage signals and jointed rail.
Always sad to see old equipment get taken down. I remember these signals here in SoCal on the Cajon Subdivision. Santa Fe mounted bi-directional searchlight heads on a single mast, and that looked odd. The searchlights are long gone, replaced by SafeTran 'Darth Vader' signals. However, the Union Pacific still has a set of searchlight signals on the SPSF crossover in Cajon constructed in the 80s. Thanks for sharing with us Danny! Another gem ya got there.
You can blame PTC, and the only reason PTC was forced on the industry was because of Chatsworth.
I worked MOW at pico tower (LA Sub) back in 2008....there was a pile of these old relic searchlights and pot signals tossed in a rollup bin sent out for scrap.
your videos really are well made, entertaining, and informative.
Absolutely interesting and fabulous Mr Danny!
Awesome video! Sad to see the old search light signals go away.
Great video as always...always wondered why there was a spacing difference.
Danny, I think you nailed it with the explanation that Controlled Sidings had the tall spacing as if there was a middle head, offering a "Slow approach" aspect or restricting. The thing is not all the sidings were built as controlled sidings, some were actually built as Signaled sidings. I can only recollect my time there prior to 2004 but there were three sidings that had signals in and out, especially if we had to pass another train. DeLand siding was one, Haines City Siding was another. Maybe Bensen Jct.? It's kinda foggy now. I just know the signals going into the siding had to be able to show a Medium Approach or even a Medium Approach Medium instead of just a lunar Restricting. Anyhow the short signals probably used to be a signaled siding but were swapped out as traffic decreased.
Thanks! Yes, I've been trying to find out why ACL installed some Controlled sidings and some Signaled sidings. I've always assumed the Controlled sidings were not intended to hold more than one train at a time and the Signaled sidings could. Just a guess on my part.
Distant Signal they did not teach us this stuff in little conductor school but the common sense was that the controlled sidings were for the situation where a train could set off a cut of cars and leave them behind. While today's rules would require the siding to have derails on both ends, electronically it would not have any issues because another train could just reach in and grab the cut on a restricting aspect, whereas in a signaled siding they would need permission from the dispatcher to pass a stop signal.
Similar mechanics for the purpose of a runaround maneuver where a crew could secure their train inside the siding and then move the power to the other end of the train. The dispatcher could control the switches and everything was done from the lights in the field.
Searchlight signals are modern to me. The railroad through my county in Southern Indiana only has a couple of those things. Most of our signals are Semaphores that the Monon installed back around 1910.
The searchlight was originally invented in 1869. I don't think it really got popular until the turn of the century, though.
I know I'm late. But... In regards to your question about the spacing - not all controlled sidings are considered dark territory. In fact, typically a "controlled" or "Signalled" siding is not at all considered dark territory and whether or not it indicates occupancy or rail status on the signals directly, it does display it to the dispatcher as necessary information to have when they are lining routes and setting the signals (the dispatcher has to line/confirm a route before lighting the signal). Consequently, not all controlled sidings require restricted speed. If it is a dead end spur, or one that is used primarily as an industry switching siding to keep these movements off the main, then yes it is likely considered to be dark except for the end control points. However, if it is primarily a passing siding or otherwise needs to show occupancy to the dispatcher, it is not generally considered dark and will usually allow for limited or medium speeds, this is where a red over *something* indication would still be used either without the third head altogether or the third head displaying red. Note that turnout speed (based on the radius of the turnout) also plays a part in the indications allowed for diverging or converging routes.
What is notable on the Mango signal you pointed out is that there is a platform on the ladder for a middle light, so my guess was at some point there was a lamp there and it was removed when the lunar went in, as that negated the need for a red over red over yellow restricting aspect, since in CSX land, as you mentioned, they'd show red over lunar instead. It was probably easier on the control cabinet side to utilize the lower head for purposes of rewiring the logic since the lower head was already the one utilized in the restricting aspect - Shunt out the lamp detection on the middle head and just replace the yellow lens with a lunar lens.
Disclaimer: I've never worked in the industry, but I've done quite a bit of research on signals and have dealt with relay logic systems since I was in high school.
Thanks very much! That's all interesting info. I said "technically" dark territory as I know it's not officially that, But the dispatchers told me that in a Controlled Siding, there was no circuitry beyond the turnout circuit that would indicate occupancy in the siding.
I just did a Distant Signal marathon over my last 3 days off. I came home from work tonight and there this was ! Love when you do a signals video. My only wish is that you would more videos ! Your part one scanner video leads me to believe that you might be a Ham?
de WA8SDF here.
73 Jim, de WA4CIF...I too would think Danny is a ham. But from all indications he never got his ticket. He seems to prefer trains and his gig at FOX13 in Tampa!
Hi Jerry. Ahhh ok... maybe he will chime in? He got my attention when he started to talk about 5/8th wave rubber duckies and roof mounts. I did program my Yeasu VX6 2 meter /440 handheld for railroads. It has a bubba-jillion bands, so I didn't compromise any ham frequencies, and it has a lot better s/n ratio than a run of the mill Radio Shack scanner. Plus it's waterproof! I'm usually on 40 meters on MIDCARS-SOUTHCARS-EASTCARS during the mornings .
73
Jim
Thanks very much, Jim. Yes, I'm a ham but only a tech. I really only got my ticket for mobile scanner protection against anti-scanner laws in other states. But yes, have loved the two-way since I was in 6th grade.
Ok... to quote a favorite teenager (who has his general) : "cool beans". Maybe run into you at the Dayton Hamvention?
KE4CPC here!
theres a couple of the searchlight signals by the yard where I live in Elmira, NY.
I always go there when the weather is nice to shoot trains, after watching your videos on how to read signals..........I have a general idea what they now mean
+NSNUT2013 Are they unimpeded by Vaders?
no. the area is heavily patrolled by the local PD and NSPD is also usually there. I was train watching one day and I always got a friendly wave from the engineers and police officers.
+NSNUT2013 Oh.
4:34 he gave a shave and a haircut! It was perfect too! Only cool drivers do that!
PS. it’s safetran not train
I really enjoy your videos, awesome job!
Love Your Railroad Signal Videos I Was Lucky Enough To Get A Old Seaboard Signal Witch I Am Working On Restoring And Setting It Up In My Yard.
Hey Danny, there are still searchlight signals still standing in 2020 on the CSX Plymouth Sub in Michigan.
Danny, the SCL did indeed have restricting signals, especially up at Richmond and Rocky Mt. Doug Riddell referenced it several times in his book "From the Cab".
Did SCL have the Lunar aspect? I know their Restricting was a yellow on the bottom aspect. The 1978 SCL rulebook makes no mention of Lunar white.
Distant Signal When I was at Crawford a few weeks ago, Norfolk Southern 209 went through the interlocking and after that the signal went to RED-RED-YELLOW for 229. I assumed that was a restricting signal on NS.
Danny this is Gabe Passmore from Flordia Railfans in TN where I am from the whole KD sub is Searchlights except 40 miles of it
Awesome Videos !!! You're the best, ever. I'd love to see you do one on the old wig-wag Magnetic Signals......
The title made me laugh so hard! Good video!
Ha! Thanks!
at 1:17 why are those 2 signals on the gantry facing away from the tracks?
Xavier johnson that's the signal for the wye out of Winston not the main.
awesome video. love old school train Signals.
CSX just removed the former New York Central searchlight signal bridges up in Buffalo, NY last weekend. Next up are the Conrail G Type signals moving west. It's sad to see some of these signals go, but progress has to be made.
Yes, I'm afraid I've missed the CPL's up there, too. I just waited too long.
+Distant Signal There are still quite a few CPLs left but they are going to be replaced soon!
Very interesting video! I guess I need to start looking out more for these.
Hello Danny, quick question for you. I railfan a lot in Montgomery, IL and just found a fixed yellow signal that never changes with a "D" plate under the light. Is this a fixed approach? What does the D mean? Thank you in advance for any information you can provide. Todd
You're going to chuckle at this but look at the name of this channel. The "D" means "Distant signal" as opposed to a regular block signal. The correct term is "Fixed distant signal." The name of the applicable rule and indication depend on the railroad involved.
It's just a heads-up on an otherwise un-signaled line that an absolute signal that must be obeyed, whatever it shows, is just ahead.
CSX still has a few searchlights on the LH&StL “Texas” line at Henderson, KY.
Hey Danny - I think I have your answer for the "controlled siding" at Cherry at 6:11. Why does the 2-signal mast not have a gap in the middle that would eliminate medium speeds?
Answer: This was not originally a controlled siding. Therefore, you would need at least approach and stop for the bottom head with no gap. The railroad never bothered to replace the entire signal mast. I ran into the same situation about a month ago here in Virginia with an older Southern Railway signal bridge. At the end of a siding at a switch, the main has ONE 3-light head. The siding has TWO 3-light heads. In this situation, there used to be a crossover with the siding continuing much further straight. But at some point, the second track was taken up and now is just one switch instead of a crossover at this location. So, at the end of a siding, the siding has a 3 over 3 aspect! But Norfolk Southern now has the Darth Vaders in place (temporarily turned sideways), so these old signals will be gone soon at this location.
That sounds like a good possibility, Rail Dawg. I had not thought of that. many thanks!
Great video! Love what you said at the end considering I'm a High School Junior right now! Ha!
Haven't gotten over to Palatka in a couple weeks, but I know they were replacing the signals there and even adding one before the station for Northbounds. Have you heard anything more?
Do you have any shots of those old signal man shacks? I vaguely recall one from my youth where the worker waited to manually lower an arm at a grade crossing. It was in New Milford CT. I believe it even had a cast iron heater in it.
You make good informative videos 👍👍👍
I like the old searchlight types as well. I live in Canada and noticed that cn rail signals are always on or lit up where as the cp rail signals only come on when a train enters the block. I always wondered why that is,
Amtrak engineers are always so friendly, interesting.
As always Danny you give lots of good information, now question. I am looking for an app so I can see a section of the railroad like a dispatch sees. All the blocks and where the trains are.
Search ATCS on google. That's all I know about it.
When searchlight signals were being replaced on a BNSF line in Ca, I was watching a guy who was trying to steal one on the ground, but it was too heavy for him to lift into the back of his truck!😄
Lol, I would figure out a way to get it in there somehow
Great Job Danny. With todays technology makes me wonder when we will have signal less railroads and human less operated trains?
Glad I have an H2 internal mech in my bedroom. And I managed it for a very low price too! Old signal hardware just can't be beat in terms of quality. Don't understand why they absolutely need to be replaced for ptc. If not the H2 or SA signals then the NYC tri lights or color lights. They would work fine with processors linked to the old relays. Just need to switch the right amount of voltage and amperage.
I enjoy your Videos and thanks for the great information.
Come to Michigan, in Howel the have theses signals everywhere and signal briges.
Those are all US&S searchlights. Up here in Minnesota the remaining searchlights are about an even mix of US&S and GRS models. About the only way to tell them apart besides reading the label is the lens shade. Oh, and Cherry if is a standard controlled siding (I have no reason to doubt you), does it have a turnout speed faster than slow? If so, a medium or faster speed turnout would explain the head-spacing. Many railroads left the middle head out if they only needed to show slow or restricting signals, whether there was a controlled siding or not.
Great video Danny, thanks for the great info1!
- Balerio
What does CSX do with the old searchlight, “Y” pattern, and dwarf signals that are being replaced-and would you want to get one if possible? (I guess I’d ask the same question about the crossing signals as well since some are replaced and some crossings are closed.)
believe it or not, im in high school right now and i actually just saved an EX Reading Searchlight signal, it has 2 heads spaced closer together and they each can display a Red, Green or yellow on each. Working on restoring it at the moment but cant wait to get it up and lit once again!
Very nice. Send a video of it when you're done.
Distant Signal will do! Working on the getting the release papers at the moment and then comes the moving of it
CSX pretty much replaced all their old searchlights and ACL color lights last year here on the Charleston Subdivision of the A-Line. Luckily I got a few photos of the searchlights before CSX completely took them out of service. I'm gonna miss them.
They are not all gone just yet.
Chris Martone I know, there just not in the area I live in anymore.
Pan am still has a bunch, they removed a good amount of them this winter though.
On the EK my CSX line there are tons of those signals still serving on the CSX EK sub in 2022 I think of danny when I see those search lights
love the videos Danny. are you going to be at Railwatch in foksten this weekend?
I am indeed, but only Saturday. Next year, I'm going to take vacation days for Thursday thru Monday and make a whole weekend of it.
Distant Signal will u have some dvds for sale and do u know anyone that will be selling t shirts
Danny whats happens with old search lite signals after they are taken down i hope they are given to railroad museums for history