Thanks for sharing your lesson with us. Subscribed to watch your journey and development. The instructor has an interesting approach about using wrist. Personally feel that it would be difficult to achieve consistency and likely develop tennis elbow in the long run 😅
I come from table tennis and even with rubber being able to grip the hell out of the ball, no one teaches to pronate (turn over) the forearm like this in a shot. This is wiiiilldddd advice!
I will say, I like the use of the wrist for the top spin on the mid court drop shot, that shot looks really solid that keeps the ball low and unattackable when moving up to the NVZ
Interesting to see the comments saying they don’t use wrist. That probavly means their ball never dips and just floats. Pickleball is changing and a lot of players are incorporating a drive/drop ball, or a “drip”. Using your wrist, along with your legs and paddle head speed will get that shape that he was talking about. Personally, even if the coach doesn’t fit your play style, it’s good to get different input from other coaches so you can implement that Into your own gameplay. From what I see, now you can have a both a flat drive, and a drip. Keep grinding. See you in 4.5
Yeah I still think I learned a lot, especially as someone who rarely used their wrist before. He might lean more toward the extreme end, but he definitely showed me how to incorporate more wrist action around the court.
I don't think that's true, honestly. I think what everyone is saying is relating to where he is teaching the "whip" and how he's teaching the wrist break as part of the snap- through, when really the snap- through and top spin is coming from your forearm as the end of the whip. A slight wrist break is fine, but the wrist is the most inconsistent mechanism in your arm, especially for a drive. There's plenty of pro interviews and instructional demos from pros that refute this instruction. Using Quang as a reference was terrible, because it literally refutes his teaching right away.
This is kind of like badminton forehand lift in pronating the wrist. As a badminton guy, this is basically the motion of hitting low lift so that it is flatter.
Interesting to see a coach teach drives/backhand drives with extreme amounts of wrist. I see what he's saying. It looks as if hes really really driving home the "wind shield" wiping motion but instead of that being used for speed ups with the forehand at the kitchen. hes really incorporated it into his drives. He's really pushing for the topspin and the ball staying low to the net. Definitely wouldn't say this is the most common way to be taught it but hey everyone is different and has their way of doing things. Often times yoiu go to courts and EVERYONE has a very distinct way they hit the ball and play, and it works for them somehow lol. Keep it up brother
@@ChrisChickle Yeah dude it was very evident in the last part where it was "putting it all together" you can definitely tell it dips more and has more topspin. keep it up mane
Before even worrying about the wrist, i would have worked on footwork, weight transfer, hip and shoulder rotation. Then start adding the little extras to make your stroke yours. Just my 2 cents.
@ChrisChickle at least you are taking lessons and trying to learn new things instead of just playing games and expecting to get better. Hats off to you.
Since you've received push-back on the advice given in this video, I wanted to add in my own opinion. 1) Your coach in this video is more-so using the pronation of his arm, creating that "windshield wiper" motion. This isn't technically his wrist muscles, it's your arm muscles. Avoid using your wrist back-and-forth as if you were smelling something stinky. You'll hurt the small muscles in your wrist if you try to use them play pickleball too much. 2) Vertical swing path. The biggest increase in spin you had was in a result of your more vertical swing path, not your wrist somehow magically transferring more spin than other parts of your body. This is shown especially well with the fact that he starts the exercise by dropping balls in the kitchen and forcing you to spin them over the net. This more vertical swing path results in brushing the ball, and therefore increases spin. 3) Increased acceleration. Using your wrist is increasing the acceleration at the moment of contact, which increases the dwell time on the ball and produces more spin. However, it's preferable to use the entire kinetic chain along your body, not just your wrist. You already had good technique with the example drive you showed him, the problem is you needed to "snap" and accelerate right before contact. If you maintain or speed, or even worse slow down, your ball will have less contact time with your paddle. Your coach chooses to do this with his arm pronation. This works, but is simply less efficient on a lot of his shots that he chooses to use them on. Really, outside of a flick, topspin drop, or speed-up at the kitchen line, I really don't like the idea of adding this much arm pronation into your shot. It's kind of like turning up your mouse sensitivity SUPER high, and saying, "Look how fast I can move my mouse!" But being able to unreliably click anything. In my opinion, the biggest lesson of his instruction was to get you to focus on generating topspin through acceleration and swing-path. Just be mindful of those two things, and build an understanding of them. Ben Johns, Zane Navratil, and John Cincola (also many other top pros) strongly discourage people from using too much wrist on their shots. Pickleball is a game of consistency, and using your big muscle groups will result in more consistent shots. Even table tennis, which requires WAY more spin that pickleball, doesn't use that much wrist at the top level for forehand shots!
I've been coaching for a few years, and play at 5.0 myself and I would be very cautious using the advice shown here. I don't quite understand the logic that because the court is smaller, the kinetic chain of the body is not useful, so we have to wrist every shot. I'd disagree with this, on a fundamental level. Does that mean I think this guy is an awful coach? No, but I have to say that I probably would not recommend him for 95% of players. Learning proper weight transfer with hip and shoulder rotation will serve you on every shot in pickleball, and will be more consistent.
It's like the coach is trying to impose his style of play. What works for him may not work for others. By adding wrist, you're adding an extra movement in your swing. Your drive at time stamp12:10 was fine. Nice and straight. Why mess with it. You went from full rotation to just linear swing paths using just your arm and wrist. Sure, it's easy to use a full wrist snap when you're hitting balls from a basket, can one do it when opponents are hitting top spins with pace at you ? Using wrist is good for speedups at the NVZ line. For FH and BH drive ???
Sweet! The man himself @BrionesPickleball commented on this video. He seems to be insinuating something about your coach's teachings. Wondering if Briones will make a video on his channel about this.
Feels like this is one of those lessons where it felt great but won’t stick. Quang Duong has a compact swing but he uses his entire body and it’s still loopy. That said I’m sure you can go quite far using his swing just as he’s probably a hell of a player himself.
I think learning how to use my wrist more around the court is my main takeaway from this lesson! I hardly use my wrist and i dip my shoulder down a lot cuz I don't use my legs lol
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I wonder how does your instructor serve the ball? Does he also use this hardcore wrist motion while serving?
I did ask him about that and he does say that when serving, it's 99% wrist. And when I do see him play, it is very powerful and has a lot of top spin so 🤷♂lol
He may have demonstrated the extreme side of it but I should incorporate some wrist during my drives? I see people have a lot of wrist lag where as I’m more stiff
I am afraid that he is causing you to develope more bad habits in term of not adjusting the grip and face paddle from various distances and heights of the ball...plus without emphasizing footworks? If a coach cannot show you fundamentals from the very basic, and not promoting various shot selections in the game...more likely you gonna get confused and you will never get things right. Then one may start questioning why a player is not advancing in the game?
OMG-I as well as most ALL pb pros will have to disagree with this instructor on snapping that wrist on drives. The forehand/backhad drive may look like it's wristy when you watch it, but it's not at all! You're actually turning/pronating your forearm, not wrist! I knew it the first time I watched your instruction with him that he knows nothing...this 2nd video 100% confirms he doesn't know the basics. Go watch James Ignatowich or any other pro videos if you don't believe me.
Hmmm dang it lolol From ya’lls perspective, based on how I normally drive in my previous videos compared to this one, which style do you think is closer to what works best? I feel like in this video, I’m definitely looser and using a bit more wrist lag If anything, my takeaway might be finding a middle ground since it seems like we’re both on opposite ends of the spectrum. Maybe finding a balance where I can stay loose, maintain that wrist lag, and incorporate more wrist action up at the kitchen 🤷🏼
@ when I say “he knows nothing”, I was referring to your instructor. Yes, wrist lag is what you want to do, but at the pint of contact, the wrist does not bend forward. Btw, your drives are fine, work on your technique with drops and dinking. Those 2 skills will advance you faster.
Relax. He’s trying to make his swing more compact. He’s also wanting him to add some dip to the ball instead of having a flat drive. The instructor has a nice swing.
I don’t see it that way. Everyone has their own style of playing, and for the instructor, it clearly works for him as he is above a 5.0. I noticed that when I used more wrist around the court, I was able to create more topspin too. Which is a big change for someone who barely used wrist before haha At the end of the day, I might not follow everything he taught me exactly, but there’s definitely a lot I can incorporate into my game.
@@ChrisChickle I definitely saw a more dangerous ball going over when you were doing the drills with him. Also, the drills will enhance your speed ups. Keep it up!
There’s so much to talk about in this video……
like what?
Woah I’ve seen your videos! Would love to hear your thoughts on this
GOOO BRIONESS GOOOOO
I may have to do a video on this…
And talk about the potential problems with this advice.
I've called myself more wristy player forever and was always met with scoffs accompanied by: "that it isn't the correct way" I feel so validated.
I’m sure everyone has their own style of playing, and whatever works for them, works for them!
Thanks for sharing your lesson with us. Subscribed to watch your journey and development. The instructor has an interesting approach about using wrist. Personally feel that it would be difficult to achieve consistency and likely develop tennis elbow in the long run 😅
Appreciate you watching and following!
I come from table tennis and even with rubber being able to grip the hell out of the ball, no one teaches to pronate (turn over) the forearm like this in a shot. This is wiiiilldddd advice!
I will say, I like the use of the wrist for the top spin on the mid court drop shot, that shot looks really solid that keeps the ball low and unattackable when moving up to the NVZ
Thanks for this! Enjoyed the content, subbed! Looking forward to your journey!
Ayyy subbed to you as well!
Interesting technique. I like the spinning drops
Interesting to see the comments saying they don’t use wrist. That probavly means their ball never dips and just floats.
Pickleball is changing and a lot of players are incorporating a drive/drop ball, or a “drip”. Using your wrist, along with your legs and paddle head speed will get that shape that he was talking about.
Personally, even if the coach doesn’t fit your play style, it’s good to get different input from other coaches so you can implement that Into your own gameplay.
From what I see, now you can have a both a flat drive, and a drip. Keep grinding. See you in 4.5
Yeah I still think I learned a lot, especially as someone who rarely used their wrist before. He might lean more toward the extreme end, but he definitely showed me how to incorporate more wrist action around the court.
I don't think that's true, honestly. I think what everyone is saying is relating to where he is teaching the "whip" and how he's teaching the wrist break as part of the snap- through, when really the snap- through and top spin is coming from your forearm as the end of the whip. A slight wrist break is fine, but the wrist is the most inconsistent mechanism in your arm, especially for a drive.
There's plenty of pro interviews and instructional demos from pros that refute this instruction. Using Quang as a reference was terrible, because it literally refutes his teaching right away.
This is kind of like badminton forehand lift in pronating the wrist. As a badminton guy, this is basically the motion of hitting low lift so that it is flatter.
Interesting to see a coach teach drives/backhand drives with extreme amounts of wrist. I see what he's saying. It looks as if hes really really driving home the "wind shield" wiping motion but instead of that being used for speed ups with the forehand at the kitchen. hes really incorporated it into his drives. He's really pushing for the topspin and the ball staying low to the net. Definitely wouldn't say this is the most common way to be taught it but hey everyone is different and has their way of doing things. Often times yoiu go to courts and EVERYONE has a very distinct way they hit the ball and play, and it works for them somehow lol. Keep it up brother
Yeah, he might be on the extreme side with the wrist, but learning to use my wrist has really helped me add more topspin.
Gotta keep grinding!
@@ChrisChickle Yeah dude it was very evident in the last part where it was "putting it all together" you can definitely tell it dips more and has more topspin. keep it up mane
Before even worrying about the wrist, i would have worked on footwork, weight transfer, hip and shoulder rotation. Then start adding the little extras to make your stroke yours. Just my 2 cents.
Yeah I agree with you haha rewatching this video, I have so much to improve on
@ChrisChickle at least you are taking lessons and trying to learn new things instead of just playing games and expecting to get better. Hats off to you.
Since you've received push-back on the advice given in this video, I wanted to add in my own opinion.
1) Your coach in this video is more-so using the pronation of his arm, creating that "windshield wiper" motion. This isn't technically his wrist muscles, it's your arm muscles. Avoid using your wrist back-and-forth as if you were smelling something stinky. You'll hurt the small muscles in your wrist if you try to use them play pickleball too much.
2) Vertical swing path. The biggest increase in spin you had was in a result of your more vertical swing path, not your wrist somehow magically transferring more spin than other parts of your body. This is shown especially well with the fact that he starts the exercise by dropping balls in the kitchen and forcing you to spin them over the net. This more vertical swing path results in brushing the ball, and therefore increases spin.
3) Increased acceleration. Using your wrist is increasing the acceleration at the moment of contact, which increases the dwell time on the ball and produces more spin. However, it's preferable to use the entire kinetic chain along your body, not just your wrist. You already had good technique with the example drive you showed him, the problem is you needed to "snap" and accelerate right before contact. If you maintain or speed, or even worse slow down, your ball will have less contact time with your paddle.
Your coach chooses to do this with his arm pronation. This works, but is simply less efficient on a lot of his shots that he chooses to use them on. Really, outside of a flick, topspin drop, or speed-up at the kitchen line, I really don't like the idea of adding this much arm pronation into your shot. It's kind of like turning up your mouse sensitivity SUPER high, and saying, "Look how fast I can move my mouse!" But being able to unreliably click anything.
In my opinion, the biggest lesson of his instruction was to get you to focus on generating topspin through acceleration and swing-path. Just be mindful of those two things, and build an understanding of them. Ben Johns, Zane Navratil, and John Cincola (also many other top pros) strongly discourage people from using too much wrist on their shots. Pickleball is a game of consistency, and using your big muscle groups will result in more consistent shots. Even table tennis, which requires WAY more spin that pickleball, doesn't use that much wrist at the top level for forehand shots!
Wow appreciate the input! This made a lot of sense
I've been coaching for a few years, and play at 5.0 myself and I would be very cautious using the advice shown here. I don't quite understand the logic that because the court is smaller, the kinetic chain of the body is not useful, so we have to wrist every shot. I'd disagree with this, on a fundamental level. Does that mean I think this guy is an awful coach? No, but I have to say that I probably would not recommend him for 95% of players. Learning proper weight transfer with hip and shoulder rotation will serve you on every shot in pickleball, and will be more consistent.
It's like the coach is trying to impose his style of play. What works for him may not work for others. By adding wrist, you're adding an extra movement in your swing. Your drive at time stamp12:10 was fine. Nice and straight. Why mess with it. You went from full rotation to just linear swing paths using just your arm and wrist. Sure, it's easy to use a full wrist snap when you're hitting balls from a basket, can one do it when opponents are hitting top spins with pace at you ? Using wrist is good for speedups at the NVZ line. For FH and BH drive ???
Sweet! The man himself @BrionesPickleball commented on this video. He seems to be insinuating something about your coach's teachings. Wondering if Briones will make a video on his channel about this.
Feels like this is one of those lessons where it felt great but won’t stick.
Quang Duong has a compact swing but he uses his entire body and it’s still loopy.
That said I’m sure you can go quite far using his swing just as he’s probably a hell of a player himself.
I think learning how to use my wrist more around the court is my main takeaway from this lesson!
I hardly use my wrist and i dip my shoulder down a lot cuz I don't use my legs lol
I wonder how does your instructor serve the ball? Does he also use this hardcore wrist motion while serving?
I did ask him about that and he does say that when serving, it's 99% wrist.
And when I do see him play, it is very powerful and has a lot of top spin so 🤷♂lol
interesting teaching i was never taughty to be wrist on drives
He may have demonstrated the extreme side of it but I should incorporate some wrist during my drives? I see people have a lot of wrist lag where as I’m more stiff
Could you say what his name is? I can see why you may have looked to him - I like his strokes.
Sorry I would like to respect his privacy and not share his name
does your instructor have a youtube site?
Nope he does not
I am afraid that he is causing you to develope more bad habits in term of not adjusting the grip and face paddle from various distances and heights of the ball...plus without emphasizing footworks? If a coach cannot show you fundamentals from the very basic, and not promoting various shot selections in the game...more likely you gonna get confused and you will never get things right. Then one may start questioning why a player is not advancing in the game?
OMG-I as well as most ALL pb pros will have to disagree with this instructor on snapping that wrist on drives. The forehand/backhad drive may look like it's wristy when you watch it, but it's not at all! You're actually turning/pronating your forearm, not wrist! I knew it the first time I watched your instruction with him that he knows nothing...this 2nd video 100% confirms he doesn't know the basics. Go watch James Ignatowich or any other pro videos if you don't believe me.
Agreed, you can be wristy on flicks at the kitchen, just not on drives.
Hmmm dang it lolol
From ya’lls perspective, based on how I normally drive in my previous videos compared to this one, which style do you think is closer to what works best? I feel like in this video, I’m definitely looser and using a bit more wrist lag
If anything, my takeaway might be finding a middle ground since it seems like we’re both on opposite ends of the spectrum. Maybe finding a balance where I can stay loose, maintain that wrist lag, and incorporate more wrist action up at the kitchen 🤷🏼
@ when I say “he knows nothing”, I was referring to your instructor. Yes, wrist lag is what you want to do, but at the pint of contact, the wrist does not bend forward. Btw, your drives are fine, work on your technique with drops and dinking. Those 2 skills will advance you faster.
@@ChrisChickle 1) checkout Pickleburner and Jordan Briones, etc
2) Fire this instructor, no bs he’s literally the worst instructor I’ve ever seen.
Relax. He’s trying to make his swing more compact. He’s also wanting him to add some dip to the ball instead of having a flat drive. The instructor has a nice swing.
Don’t agree with his methodology. So he is saying your drive sucks. Do it my way? Good luck trying to adapt to that wristy motion.
His new drive actually had a nastier dip. Takes time dude. It’s his first lesson.
I don’t see it that way. Everyone has their own style of playing, and for the instructor, it clearly works for him as he is above a 5.0. I noticed that when I used more wrist around the court, I was able to create more topspin too. Which is a big change for someone who barely used wrist before haha
At the end of the day, I might not follow everything he taught me exactly, but there’s definitely a lot I can incorporate into my game.
@@ChrisChickle I definitely saw a more dangerous ball going over when you were doing the drills with him. Also, the drills will enhance your speed ups. Keep it up!