Tesla FSD 12.3.4 (Supervised) versus the "Waymo Driver" | Side by Side on (almost) exact same route
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 เม.ย. 2024
- #Tesla #autopilot #fsd #fullselfdriving #ai #arizona #waymo #ev | This is the same footage of my previous video; however, I placed them side-by-side. The route starts in almost the exact same spot but you can almost immediately see the differences in the manners in which the vehicles operate. The vehicle being driven is a 2023 Tesla Model S with HW4. The firmware on the vehicle is 2024.3.15. The footage for this video was filmed on 04/19/2024 in Chandler, Arizona.
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Good video. I've had Tesla's FSD for a month now and have purchased their monthly subscription for $99.00. It's very impressive but does make mistakes now and then so you definitely have to supervise it. But it's getting much better, quickly. I've already received two software updates in the last month. To me, the biggest differences between the two are 1. Waymo cars, with all their sophisticated sensors, cost between $200,000 - $250,000. No one is going to buy that for personal use. Sure costs will come down somewhat in the future but they have got to be losing money hand over fist. The tech is cost prohibitive. 2. Tesla FSD can drive anywhere, in any city, it's not geo-fenced. Drop a Waymo car in an unfamiliar city and it's a $200,000 brick, it won't be able to drive at all. Drop a Tesla in an unfamiliar city and it will just self drive as usual. Tesla's FSD is scaleable, Waymo is not...
" Drop a Tesla in an unfamiliar city and it will just self drive as usual" Could be interesting if they drive on the left.
If you look at the rate of 'fixing stuff' that has been happening in V12 I suspect that within a couple months the mistakes will be down drastically. They are hiring like a 1000 people whose job it will be drive wherever there was a mistake - so the new data generated will fix that.
@@michaelnurse9089
That subscription and overall price drop for FSD could be due to lack of specific videos of specific use cases, just to get as many as possible as they are not longer compute restricted, which means they lack actual videos to be processed at the moment.
@@Zripas It is for all those EDGE Cases, and unique situations.
@@1flash3571
To get enough videos for last 1% can be tricky and in some sense, they need those as soon as possible or they will lose money
Great video! Very informative...
This video just made go buy a ton more Tesla stock!!!!!
Then you are feeling very happy today ;)
Looks to me very much like its Tesla all the way. I'm positive there's plenty of room for other systems, running on rails or set routes, but Tesla has this in the bag.
Tesla has *what* in the bag? Waymo can drive alone, without a human in the car supervising. Tesla cannot!
And this was a very easy daytime route. Waymo is full of advanced sensors, which are much better than Tesla at night, or in the rain.
@@DerekDavis213 Clearly shows that you haven't done your homework Derek. tut tut. Waymo costs 6-10 times as much a Tesla, uses radar and lidar, which are hideously expensive and available in very low numbers. Waymo have human 'supervisors' to remote to control the Waymo when they get into an edge case they cannot get out of. Waymo can only operate on an area which has been pre-mapped to cm detail (basically they work on virtual 'rails'), this is not a scaleable or profitable solution. Tesla uses cameras a a neural brain, same as 100' of millions of human drivers across the world have proven works, with the right training. Teslas can drive anywhere which has a public road or car park (still need training a little more here granted), including highway which Waymo cannot. Teslas drive perfectly well at night and in light rain conditions. I believe they are still training to drive better than the average human in poor weather conditions, including rain, snow, fog, high winds etc. Come back to me with any further education you might need. Thanks
@@BongoWongoOG You talk about all the Waymo limitations as a robotaxi. But Tesla has MORE limitations!
Waymo is operating a robotaxi business today. Tesla is not.
Waymo has the advanced sensor suite working TODAY. Tesla only has the simple minded cameras.
Waymo is trusted by customers, while Tesla is definitely not.
@@BongoWongoOG I'll bet you that Tesla won't have a robotaxi by the end of 2025 and 2026.
There's a million things they have to get right that they're not getting right at the moment, up to and including perception. I've seen v12 almost kill WholeMarsBlog by running him into a highway divider and in the same video misrecognize a Chinese New Year decoration as a stoplight (LbCGAN6Pk_c). It can't see chain-linked fences, tries to drive right into them (tRGoEN0O5K0 @ 46:50) . I've seen videos of v12 randomly turning into stationary cars . It can't do Chuck Cook's unprotected left reliably, it pushes its nose out into traffic dangerously as it just plain can't see without doing that and Mr. Cook disengages (--qBme0ddng).
Pre-HW4 Teslas have no compute redundancy. A bug that crashes the software will ... not be good for anyone ... and I've seen videos of FSD bugs crashing the software entirely (supervised this usually turns out ok). Let's hope HW4's redundant node will not be cannibalized like they did with HW3.
It's pretty bad with road debris (GbiQ_uopCXI).
Also, any robotaxi will need remote supervision and support for the near future. There are too many odd scenarios these cars get stuck in.
@@DerekDavis213 Waymo operates a limited service in limited locations, supervised by people (remotely), using 3rd party vehicles equipped with expensive unnecessary sensors and is completely unprofitable, losing approx 600 million last year.
I’m not seeing the advantage? Can you elaborate how Waymo will compete against a flood of Tesla Taxis entering the market at scale? Good luck with that
15:04 is exactly right! Imagine in 5-10 years looking back and thinking a bunch of spinning toilet paper rolls and shoeboxes glued to a car was an acceptable style. Tesla is going to dominate this market with cars that actually look like cars.
100% agree!
@@rcmgllc Cameras are HORRIBLE with depth perception, all tesla struggle with potholes. Safety is #1.
Interesting comparison, however, it’s a little annoying not to be able to see the road ahead because of your mirror.
it would have been nice to have actual map on the side with icons where each car is, as it's really hard to see anything what's going on and how each car handles specific spots.
Very hard to see much of the road in either car's video. Frustrating since it's a nice concept, comparing multiple semi autonomous systems on the same route.
Cool vid
Great video! It's great to see "FSD" improving in capability. But in the end, the main requirement for a driverless system is reliability. The system needs to handle all the conditions for hundreds of thousands of miles everyday and not once need an intervention. I think achieving that is much more difficult than people realize.
You are right, FSD Level 5 means 99.99 percent competency.
Right now. FSD is a simple Level 2 assistant that is maybe 97 percent capable. Just do the math.
@@DerekDavis213 probably more like 99.99999 assuming one incident per 100,000 miles is the reliability target (which is still pretty relaxed)
@@self-drivingscientist512 99.9999? Yes you are probably right. Many humans drive every day for 20 years without an accident.
The latest FSD cannot drive 1 hour on a challenging route, without mistakes that require *human* *intervention* . FSD is a joke.
@@DerekDavis213 I apologize, it should have been 99.999% assuming a reliability target of 1 incident per 100,000 miles. (1/100,000 is 0.001% not 0.00001%)
@@DerekDavis213FSD level 5 is superhuman and not 99% competency
All that matters is safety and route efficacy. Autonomous taxis will REPLACE privately owned vehicles because of the low cost, lower than driving your own car.
A privately owned vehicle costs about 15 dollars per day, over 15 years. Robotaxis will take me round trip to work every day, plus trips to the health club, restaurant, grocery store, and all of that for 15 dollars per day? Not a chance!
And will robotaxi take me on weekend trips, 100's of miles away, for 15 dollars per day? NOPE.
I'm absolutely loving my FSDs trial and plan on subscribing at least some of the time.
Is it perfect? No. But it's an amazing tool that will only get better.
Nice video. My only suggestion is you keep referring to both Waymo and Tesla from the perspective of “personal ownership”. Realize that it is not Waymo’s intention to sell their cars for personal use but to use them strictly as robotaxis. A better comparison would be from the perspective of both Waymo and Tesla cars being used as robotaxis in the future. Based on this week’s Tesla earnings call, it is Tesla’s plan to unveil their robotaxi in August of this year. So then…what would be the fair comparison of Waymo versus Tesla both as robotaxis?
There is NO comparison. Tesla FSD is scalable, while Waymo IS NOT. Tesla vehicles, potentially can drive anywhere in the U.S., while Waymo can only drive where the roads were scanned. It is Geofenced in to those areas ONLY. To scan the roads all over the U.S. is very prohibited. Those road conditions and situations needs to be monitored 24/7 or it will become a nightmare for Waymo.
I live in the middle of Europe. When will Waymo technically be able to drive me about 140km to the next airport? And when will Tesla be allowed to do it?
@@1flash3571Exactly my point. There is no comparison.
I think the point is that if Tesla is able to develop end to end driving properly, the overhead cost is not going to be as much compared to Waymo, making it more profitable from the get go.
@@trotmanCE More profitable for who? And where will Waymo and Tesla and all other competitors be allowed to operate? On certain streets? Only on highways? Only between the city and the airport? Only in the night? Are there no limits? What happens to the taxi drivers? Will they all go bankrupt? What will all those Uber drivers do? Accept their defeat and do something productive or fight against Tesla?
Thanks for the comparison! No reason to think FSD couldn’t accomplish the same autonomous driving in the near future (a year, 2, 5,?). It will need a bit of work at either end of the drive, but waymo doesn’t appear to have any edge in the body of the drive. The question is whether Tesla has any interest in autonomous use in the near future. In markets like California, they will need to start reporting a lot of performance data to local authorities. That is not a natural behavior for Tesla. For now, it drives all my routes in NC very well.
It is default legal to operate autonomous vehicles in most of the U.S, and explicitly legal in some other states, though I'm sure regulators will want to see lots of data, to keep it that way.
What I want to know is whether Tesla will have its own remote operators, at least for a while, and how long it will take to get it good enough in most of the country. I can tell you that, for all the progress in CA, it has not improved here in WA in years...
Also, what limits will be placed on operation in the active areas? They currently limit it in rain and keep throwing up warnings at night. It needs more work in snow too. What will they do when conditions are really bad?
We currently buy vehicles depending on how many 'bells and whistles' they have, for the future it will be the capability of the automated driving features i.e.Tesla, Waymo, Wayve...just watch the legacy OEMs come knocking on Tesla's door
1:50 ... meaning FSD was driving and slowed down and "Forward Collision Alert"/FCA on *itself*. I had this happen yesterday. Does Tesla insurance give you a ding on ANY FCA?
That’s a good question. Let me look.
How do you think the Tesla seats would look like if it was operated as a (robo)taxi?
Just take a look at a existing Tesla taxi.- We have a few of those running in our country. The seats hold about as good as every oher manufacturer.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 That is what i meant. It is not the cars fault that the seats are dirty when used as a taxi, and especially when used as an autonomous taxi. IF (will not happen though...) Tesla will have their autonomous taxi working, then the same thing will happen there.
@@Xanthopteryx Yes, true, FSD is a hoax and Ford will prevail with their solution.
@Xanthopteryx I doubt that if tesla owns and operates the robotaxis that they will allow it to be very dirty. If they are licensed to third parties then there will definitely be no difference.
@@robinheider414 Of course they can get dirty. How do you think you earn money? By driving people or by cleaning the car?
How close is the closest service place for the taxi? They are expensive to run so not too close but you can not have too far away. Maybe 100 km? Then drive one, drop off, drive next, drop off, drive next, drop off, ... You normally drive people as much as possible until battery needs recharge, and then you go back for cleaning.
Each person might go 25 km. Then travel maybe 25 km between each customer. That is 50, and you might have a range of 400, leaving 10 for buffer, so 300 left. That is 300/50 = six customers at least. And it is enough that the FIRST have spilled something and the 5 after will think the car is dirty.
Right?
So, it is not easy to keep things spotless because we deal with people. And also have logistics to take into account. And the more you drive in the city the more people will go in the car before charging/cleaning. And if you would operate it by yourself (as Elon lies about), then YOU have to deal with all this. YOU have to deal with disengagements and go out to "save" the car or operate it remotely, and YOU have to clean the car, and charge the car, and so on.
See any problem with this?
12.3.4 where I live in the Denver Metro area is all but unusable: going 8 mph under the limit for no reason; arbitrary lane changes or choosing the wrong lane, including the right turn lane when a left turn is needed; not understanding right turn acceleration lanes where it stops at the apex of the turn rather than proceeding slowly and working out a merge with the through traffic; etc.
Check your settings. Mine on offset goes slightly over usually - the speed of safe traffic flow
To help with the slow speed I generally have to press the accelerator a lot to get the speed up to my liking, but it then will usually stay there, but not always. If you haven't tried yet, press the accelerator to get up to the speed you want to be at while FSD is engaged.
I used Waymo in Downtown Los Angeles and it was great both times. I hope all the EVs do atleast have some sort of security person that able to take over ASAP in a more cautious situation. Nobody is buy a Waymo.
While very cool, it is hard to imagine that FSD will ever become "you can take a nap and drive anywhere in the country" level autonomous with the hardware on existing vehicles. The super common scenario that the current hardware won't be able to beat is wet winter roads in someplace like the midwest/northeast US. On a day when traffic is kicking up saltwater mist from the road salt, the entire rear window of a small SUV or hatchback is useless pretty quickly without a rear wiper blade. The front fender and rear view cameras on a Tesla are always going to get blinded by that in fairly short order.. salty mist drying to an opaque layer. The B-pillar cameras might fare better since they are higher up. Are the front cameras covered by windshield wipers?
"Uses vision" ....what about at night? lol
so, why is it good that the TSLA accelerates beyond the speed limit?!
Because speed limits are bullshit
Should have turned off Assertive|Aggressive & Overspeed for better comparison.
That’s a great idea.
Nice to see some kind of a comparison. But what counts to me is: Waymo isn't perfect as well, but allowed to be a robotaxi. And Tesla does actually do many things better than Waymo. I'm convinced that one of the next FSD versions will be authorized for lvl 3 /4 /5. It's about months and not years anymore.
I absolutely agree. FSD is really impressive and Waymo is not perfect like people think sometimes.
Waymo is better tho ok let's do a test go and sit behind of the car on your Tesla and let it drive vs the waymo. The difference between waymo and Tesla is safety and the waymo does everything itself. It doesn't need a human to watch it's every move like the Tesla does. the humans only come and take over when the car gets stuck, but when it's driving if suddenly someone cuts it off, or someone runs in front of waymo etc the humans can't control it so it has to do everything itself in that situation. Idk to me waymo is still far ahead of Tesla only reason they aren't expanding faster is because of safety and people already don't like them. There are many people already trying to stop waymo so if they get into an accident everyone will be like see waymo is Dangerous. Tesla is still impressive tho it's amazing what they could only do with just camera's but in my opinion waymo is still better since it's driverless. You can sleep in a waymo that's how safe it is can he sleep in his Tesla ???
@@pennytrui1149 There are even FSD v11 comparisons where Tesla beats Waymo. And Tesla FSD 12 will progress very fast from now on.
@@pennytrui1149 You are comparing two different things. Waymo does not take on the challenges that FSD does. Waymo plays it safe and does not come out of its comfort zone, avoiding roads and situations it would struggle in ( Like doing a left over two Lanes of traffic)
What Tesla has done with FSD is nothing short of remarkable, and to me Tesla have all the pieces to solve self driving. It would not surprise me to see Tesla operating a level 4/5 service somewhere next year.
@@kafiluz4317 cap also there are also videos where waymo beats version 12 lol. So that really doesn't mean anything
How you can you in the same sentence criticise Waymo for dirty seats, and then laud the day when Tesla's RoboTaxi is going to be a reality?
Waymo is built from the ground up to be a self-driving taxi service, and any unsupervised service that deals with the general public, many of whom do not have any respect for other people, then the vehicles are going to suffer abuse.
If people love their Tesla are they really going to want to have the general public mess them up?
The RoboTax technology is just the first hurdle, the supporting ride sharing app and the business model are probably bigger challenges.
If Tesla, are anything like Apple, they will want a slice of the pie for any RoboTaxi service, they will probably want to be an Uber, living off a fleet of private vehicles.
The problem Joe Public are going to have is if the RoboTaxi model proves to be viable, the market will soon become dominated by Car Rentals, Hertz, Budget and Avis.
So
I'm all in for Tesla and simply don't give a damn what Waymo is doing or how they compare with Tesla.
Bye!
All other , so called , “autonomous “ vehicles are nothing more than joy rides inside an amusement park! Tesla is a real world robot that that learnt how to drive by watching how humans did it! It is not preprogrammed and no one has given it any instructions. It just learnt by itself by watching other people. Just like humans!
Tesla hasn't learnt anything, yet. The very latest FSD is a simple Level 2 assistant that makes mistakes every day.
Level 5 Full Autonomy is years away. Maybe decades.
Vision only was controversial when Elon pushed it to happen. And people (who never used the FSD before) are still bitching about it.. haters will always hate. LOL
HW4 is bad compared to HW3.
Wait Tesla is better than waymo? What a surpriiiiiiise
I'm just waiting for them to include Grok in teslas to be the personality of the car 😂, gonna be some funny shit
What does this have to do with music?
Also, why do people keep making these dumb comparisons? As long as you're in the driver seat for FSD, the comparisons are irrelevant. Waymo is certified L4 autonomy, FSD is not certified or regulated, and has to be supervised 🤷♂️.
The Tesla system is meant for individual purchase. Waymo is not. It is meant only as a public robotaxi. So that is not a comparison to be made. Tesla FSD is not remotely close to working as a robotaxi as Musk promised and will never be a robotaxi with vision-only tech,. It also will never be approved by any safety authority because of the complete lack of back-up alternative sensor suites. Meanwhile Waymo actually works, is approved by safety authorities and has been taking paying customers in multiple cities for over two years.
Tesla FSD is made to work in any place on any car with basic cameras, and it does work quite well, is it perfect? No. But its getting there. While waymo isint even scalable option to begin with... Its a car running on virtual train tracks which is limited to specific few cities and specific tiny areas in those cities. Why? Because it doesn't scale...
@@Zripas It is a fact that Tesla FSD does not work. No one is saying it does - not even Musk. After 7 years of failure, Tesla FSD is still pathetically stuck at Level 2. It's not getting anywhere. In Chuck Cook's very latest video, it dangerously, potentially fatally failed over and over because Tesla FSD does not work. You are also wrong about Waymo. It has been an actual working and safety authority approved robotaxi for over 2 years and has already scaled to multiple cities while Tesla FSD still does not work anywhere. Tesla FSD will also never be approved by any safety authority because of its complete lack of alternative back-up sensor suites like the successful, working Waymo system has. Musk's own engineers told him this years ago and they have been proven 100% correct. It's not a question.
@@phillgordon7523
" It is a fact that Tesla FSD does not work"
In what sense? Because Tesla FSD can get you from point A to point B without any interventions from you. It's not a 100% consistent, but it does work.
"Tesla FSD is still pathetically stuck at Level 2"
You do understand that those autonomy levels are only indication of who takes responsibility in accidented and how much attention passenger/driver needs to give? You can have level 5 capable system and label it as level 2... No one is preventing that... You could even have level 1 capable system and label it level 5... It would ruin your company in no time, but you could label it that way... That level isn't indication what it can do, its only what company decided to label it as.
Like we have Mercedes joke system labeled as level 3 which can ONLY drive on highways with lead car and under 40mph with dozen other limitations. Are you saying that Mercedes system is more capable than FSD which can navigate entire cities?
@@Zripas Completely wrong. It is a fact that FSD cannot "get you from point A to point B with no interventions". There are many, many videos from Tesla fans that prove your claim completely false. These videos, from fans like Chuck Cook, can be found in under 30 seconds with 3rd grade computer skills and show FSD failing constantly. You are also completely wrong about the levels of driving automation. The level must be demonstrated and proven to work and be safe to safety regulators like the DMV before any company is authorized to operate their system on public streets. That's why Waymo is authorized as a robotaxi and Tesla FSD can never be, because Tesla FSD fails constantly. That's why Mercedes received authorization above Tesla. Tesla's constant failure keeps it a Level 2 system. It is not Tesla's choice in any way. Musk depends on people too ignorant to comprehend these facts to keep believing his lies.
@@phillgordon7523
"There are many, many videos from Tesla fans that prove your claim completely false."
And there are videos showing Waymo being stuck in empty street... What's your point? If it can't do something with 100% consistency then it can't do it at all? Because you would be disqualifying Waymo straight away...
And just try to read what I write here. Tesla FSD can get you from point A to point B without any interventions. Is it 100% consistent? No. Does that negate my factual statement? No... It's like having a person who says he can do a backflip, you ask him to do 100, he does 99 and fails one and then you like "Aha!!! I knew you can't do backflips!!!!" do you see tiny issue with your logic here?
"That's why Waymo is authorized as a robotaxi and Tesla FSD can never be"
I guess you are the person from the future who knows how all this ends... Sorry, I thought that you are just a regular one, but you are an actual time traveler!!!
Tesla never asked to be evaluated as Level 3, so I have no idea what point you tried to make here.
"That's why Mercedes received authorization above Tesla."
Yes, because anyone can pass adaptive cruise control as level 3... Mercedes joke system is literally adaptive cruise control with start/stop enabled with additional loooong list of limitations. Here, I can list you some of those
● It operates only on geofenced, precision mapped, limited access highways
● It operates only at speeds of 40 MPH and below
● It operates only in the same lane-no lane changes
● It operates only with a lead vehicle within 100 meters ahead
● It operates only in clear weather-no rain or snow
● It operates only with no direct sun on the cameras
● It operates only if the driver doesn’t avert his gaze from ahead for more than five seconds
● It operates only outside of tunnels
● It operates only with an internet connection
and yet it counts as level 3... Because Mercedes simply decided to take responsibility for accidents if they happen, that's it. Yet it can do less than any other modern adaptive cruise control system.
"Musk depends on people too ignorant to comprehend these facts to keep believing his lies."
Then please, explain to me how Mercedes joke system got level 3 pass while any other adaptive cruise control is level 2 at best even tho those can do more?
Tell us you didn’t actually spend money on FSD to get yanked around, bust the speed limits, camp in the left passing lane and risk your expensive MS? 😱
Sure. You can keep your Ford. I would use a Tesla every day of the week ending in a y.
Tesla has a one month free trial currently.
Two really different transport system. Waymo is approved without any driver at all, so it is already a robotaxi.
That Elon is talking about....
And Waymo has doing this for 2,5 years.
So final score as today:
Waymo 2, Tesla 0
Except the Waymo needs a remote driver on demand. So Tesla could do the same thing to get out of sticky situations, assuming that situation isn’t a crash.
Tesla 10 years ahead.
Minimum.
There is no competitor on the road. It's not 10 years. It is as far as the regulators allow them to be.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 When the regulators drive a Tesla today with FSD, they will see it is simple minded and makes many mistakes, on any challenging drive.
Regulators will *not* approve FSD, in its current Level 2 form.
@@DerekDavis213 Thats perfectly ok. Regulators do not drive FSD anyway. That is not how this works.
@@wolfgangpreier9160 Regulators are going to approve or deny something that is potentially dangerous without trying it themselves? Surely you are mistaken?
Today, the very latest FSD software is a simple minded Level 2 assistant that needs human intervention every day on the road.
Remember what Elon promised 8 years ago? FSD in April 2024 is such a let-down, such a disappointment.
@@DerekDavis213 Regulators work in their offices and study the data they get from the manufacturers and testing institues.
Those testing institutes like Dekra, TÜV and many others test the manufacturers claims and if they are following the laws and UN/ECE regulations in Europe or NHTSA regs in USA etc..
Not one single regulator ever tries one product themselves. At least not officially. That would constitue a conflict of interests and is a perfect example for corruption.
Imagine the BMW and VAG (VW,Audi,Porsche) people who are sitting in those regulator workgroups - and if you did not know, the manufacturers regulate themselves, just like Boeing - drive a Mercedes Level 3 and declare it for fit for purpose and it can use the roads as the manufacturer claims it can.
Then an accident occurs. A insurance company finds the culprit that mercedes actually did an error in some weird edge case where kamikaze pigeons attacked the car and it did react poorly.
Next the regulators are asked why such cars were permitted on the roads.
Next someone finds that the regulators USED the cars.
That is a perfect example of corruption.
That is precisely what happened with Dieselgate. If you can remember.
I don't care what Elon promised or not. I measure companies not by their marketing - and Elons promises are exactly that - marketing - but by their products and what they actually achieve.
No one on the www - the whole wide world - is able to do what Tesla does.
Will it result in success and a universally working FSD? Yes, i hope so.
Does it result in a working Bot? Maybe.
Does it result in a working robotaxi for the US market - i bet it will.
Does it rsult in a working robo taxi for Chinese cities - Oh yes it will.
Does it result in a working robo taxi for the rest of the world? Maybe, but i would not bet on it.
BTW: Besides Tesla not one other manufacturer offers a level2 autonomous drive everywhere.
NOT A SINGLE ONE OUT THERE.
Try to find one. Go ahead. Good luck.
Waymo, you get more two people can have sex and get the seat dirty, while Tesla you need three people to have sex one behind the steering wheel and two in the back to get the seats dirty.
New as soon as you started you were a Tesla guy. Zero value from your video, but thanks for the effort.
Your right, but everything he said is true.