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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ธ.ค. 2023
- The team here at 74Weld sat down to help explain wheel offset and backspacing along with portal compatibility, what we recommend and why.
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74Weld wheel compatibility list: docs.google.com/presentation/...
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Absolutely loving these technical deep dives. Only improvement I can think of is adding some visual aids in post to clarify your descriptions.
Noted. Thanks
Great content and clear explanations of technical terms.
Also appreciate you taking a clear stand on the design approach despite it sometimes being more complicated as to not distract people from the main principals.
I would believe backspacing is widely used by manufacturers as the majority of users would benefit more from this info in terms of fitment to their vehicles. I.e. the clearances they need from the brake and steering components and chassis in order to fit whatever aftermarket wheel they desire to mount.
The majority of users do not take the engineering approach to select wheels so the minimum info they absolutely need for their fitment application would be the backspacing.
With regards to your desire to accommodate for positive offset, which is highly understandable, there are limiting factors for specific vehicles which can create a situation where positive offset is absolutely impossible to achieve, for example the 70 series toyota wagons would take a zero offset 6 inch wide wheel and any wider wheel wished installed would need negative offset or the undesirable (and somewhat dangerous) use of wheel spacers.
I like your content as it is fairly simple however is engineering minded and backed up by true physics and experience.
Thank you for sharing
Good stuff. The other big problem with negative offset and large scrub on a 4wd in the front end, is that the tractive force gets way outboard of the steering (KPI), so when one tire has more traction that the other side, it will pull itself around the steering pivot rather than pull the vehicle. This induces steering oscillations and can get violent really quickly and cause breakage or a crash.
Love the info and style your doing here! Only thing I’d add is forged are also usually lighter which is a big plus on IFS.
Also… love the direction your taking with the company!
Thanks. The more I watch your videos, the more I learn.
Very informative, great presentation!
Good job explaining that guys 👌🏼
Great explanations!
Once again... Frickin Awesome Quinn... You are slowly becoming more polished with these as well.... I have had to do teacher evaluations for tenure track professors... so I do know what I am talking about. You keep putting these out< I will keep watching and sharing with others that they too should subscribe.
Great information guys very educational video
Loved the technical discussion as well as all the wheels that you showed us. Thanks for the informative videos. Portals for my FJ Cruiser and 200 Land Cruiser are on my bucket list.
FJ we have now…200 we will tackle early 2024
@@74weld will contact you once funds become available. My plan is the FJ in summer 2024 first. The LC can wait a bit.
Great video. I am running the Method 704-HD Bead Grip | Titanium 17x9 | 8x6.5 | 18/5.75" | MR70479080818H on 38 X 12.5 X 17 Nitto Ridge Grapplers and had zero issues in the rocks. I wish I could post pictures of my bad ass 2023 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon diesel. I only added a 1" lift to squeeze the Fox 3.0 Factory Race Series IBP shocks under there.
Great work guys! I’d love to see your portal install videos of various off-road rigs like the Jeep XJ/ZJ/WJ/JK/JL/ hell even the Patriot 😂😎🤘🏼 however they would need to be installed off course I know there’s so many ways to make it work.
awesome discussion. need to put that google doc link directly in the portals section of your website as well
Brilliant video, thank you guys! It's like going to school, but interesting :)
It would be nice for you to test fit some oem Toyota wheels. TRD Sport Tacomas come with a 17x7.5 with a +25 offset. I’m currently running older TRD Sport wheels that are 17x7.5 +30 on my 2021 TRD Pro with 35” tires. I think those would work with your portals.
Do y’all have a video on gears and what to run or how all that plays? Just looking at these and y’all’s videos, this is about the 3rd video I’ve watched so I apologize if you do have one and I haven’t seen it yet.
Thank you so much for the technical discussion! Great information and great product. I also appreciated your patient answers to my questions at the Expo in Redmond, Oregon earlier this year. Will the portals have to be re-engineered to work with the 2024 Tacomas?
Yes the 24 Tacoma is a totally different platform. But I should get my 24 in a couple weeks and we will have a portal coming
Are the Factory Bronco Sasquatch wheels compatible with the portals and are the forged or cast?
I haven't seen portals on full-size trucks as a trend, and there may be many reasons for that such as added width, cost, engineering etc.. I tow about 10K and also like to off road in Utah an AZ. There are many aftermarket suspension options, but I am very interested in understanding why portals would or would not work on my beast F350 Tremor 7.3 gasser. Clearance/height is my objective and at the end of the day, a high-end suspension lift can cost maybe just slightly less than portals (if they had them?)....yet the pumkin raise is really where I have found it limiting. Any insight might be welcome by many. Can positive offset minimize the width so usability and appearance doesn't suffer too much?
What great vid… fantastic explanation of backspacing/offset/kpi/and scrub…. However, there was no discussion about tire diameter effect on scrub (which can be huge) nor was there discussion about a non unit bearing type axle with lockouts… if I ran positive offset in my application with lockouts, my lockouts would be sticking out 4-6 inches past the outboard face of the wheel which would be unacceptable… a problem that I had when selecting wheels is there is currently very limited selection of negative offset wheels which forced me to run wheel spacers, didn’t like it, would have avoided if I could, bought high quality, and followed manufacturer install instructions… so you asked if there was any situation where a negative offset wheel was applicable? I would love a suggestion for how to handle a hub with lockout situation? Thanks again for a great vid
You are correct on all this. I should have covered tire size. I didn’t talk about locking hubs because they just don’t have them in applications we are building for. True, but a factory wheel on a truck with locking hubs is still positive offset. But you are right on smacking that. Just something we didn’t cover or discuss
Can you provide additional information on the 8 lug positive offset beadlocks on your website?cheers🍻
Could you make a video in the same theme as this one but focus on what coil overs and arms would go best with your portals. To fit a 40 or 42 on the bronco?
We will do one on Bronco soon but when people ask, I always tell them to stick with 38’s. IMO, 40’s are too big for a Bronco and not necessary. I don’t think the tire gain is worth the sacrifice on trimming and drivetrain stress.
Have you guys tested Ford OE sasquatch wheels on the Bronco portal?
is the width increase 3.5" total or 3.5" per side for a total of 7"?
Hello, do your portals work on jeep Wrangler jk dynatrac prorock 80/60, or DSTRAC axles? And how much does it cost
Talking about removing Scrub Radius with a @74Weld Portal.
Any chance to collaborate to build an Xtravel suspension portal for a Bronco or Toyota?
Planing to get a set for one of my Jeeps, but think that IFS with a portal would be the ultimate setup.
What wheels are you running on the 392? Kmc?
35 /12.5/17 on taco- what uca can I get that wont rub with a positive offset wheel? Other than buy portals what is the solution?
one thing i think you forgot to talk about is how tire dia affects scrub radius. just by going from a 33 to a 40 with out any offset change one could go from a small positive scrub to a negative scrub.
hows the portals for the new full float d44 coming?
Very correct. Thanks for pointing that out.
I just need to get hands on a 24 with the full float rear to measure and we will do them. We have just been busy
@@74weld I have a 2024 rubicon 2 door on order. I'm also a machinist and inspector. Maybe I can help with the measurements?
One positive to a wider track/stance achieved, usually, by negative offsets and wider wheels is the terrain stand off. For lack of a better term. If you have a lot of tire poking out the body line of your 4wd then chances are you will reduce body damage incurred by really deep off camber of curving ruts and other obstacles typical of mild to wild off roading. Is this a reason to disregard all the positives (pun intended) of a positive offset wheel? Absolutely not! But let's say for an example I swap from oem wheels on an XJ for example, to a 7.5 or 8 inch wide -10 or even -25 offset. As long as I run a tire wider in profile then the wheel. I will gain some stand off qualities and reduce body damage. It could be argued (not by me) that this prevention of body damage offsets (pun also intended) the added wear/maintenance cost of bearings/bushings and ball joints.
We could Web wheel the f+ck out of this but I just wanted to add that as a performance oriented reason to switching to negative offsets on a fourwheeler. Also sometimes the increase in track width is beneficial for smaller vehicles like a Suzuki or a TJ etc to gain traction in existing ruts in snow/sand etc and not need to cut new tracks.
All subjective and your experience may vary ;)
Arctic Trucks known for their record Arctic expeditions run on negative offsets. Take a close look at the suspension on these Toyota, Nissan, GM trucks. This company provides to the Special Operations in all environments.
They do this because of how wide their tires are. That is out of necessity for the floatation effect. Correct, but super niche
I know nothing about this but if you want your tires to just slightly stick out beyond fenders for the purpose of look, can this even be achieved with positive offset wheels? I am also worried things will rub with positive offset when you turn the wheel even with ICON lift kit when the tire is a 37X12.50 inch heavy Mud Terrain Nitto Trail Grappler. Please add more light to this.
In many circumstances the opposite is actually the case. As you move to a negative offset the arc traveled when steering increases and leads to hitting the body because the tire swings wider. Too positive will get into the shock, too negative will get into the body
So if I want to be wide I’ll buy portals
I hope this encourages manufacturers to create more bead lock wheels in positive offsets (cast for us enthusiasts). Right now there are almost none, and perhaps exactly none outside of forged options. Plenty of 0's which is what I went with, but so many negative and highly negative options. Why anyone would run negative instead of wider control arms or axles is absolutely beyond me. Insanity.
Method, KMC, Innov8, Raceline, Trailready, modmofia all make positive offset beadlocks
@@74weld Thanks for the reply! I am familiar with some of these, but if I remember correctly most were forged options. I ended up going with cast from another brand which was 0mm offset.
edit. I looked into some of these and do see more cast options than I remember, but it seems that the cast versions are still negative offset (Method, KMC, Raceline)...
To my original comment, I do wish more manufactures would make positive offset cast beadlocks. Especially considering they are often less than half the cost. There is a considerable use case where beadlocks offer legitamate perfmormance improvement before forged becomes necessary.
Can you run the factory bronco Sasquatch wheels with the portals?
fwiw, the specs for the factory sasquatch wheels are: 17x8.5 +30 offset 6x139.7
Yes. We have several customers that plan on keeping factory wheels. They work
Sorry guys, hasty reply, didn't sound right, then I got my source "How to make your car handle " by Fred Puhn , HP published book. I couldn't believe something written in detail could be incorrect but I guess he had it wrong and no one caught it !
Most of the forged wheels on the market are forged to make them thinner and have more bling. So unless you buy forged wheels actually designed for strength vs cosmetics, many of the heavy duty cast wheels on the market will be much stronger. A walker evans wheel might be cast, but I guarantee you it’s stronger than a LOT of the forged Gucci bro truck mall crawler wheels out there.
All the forged wheels we recommend are the same forged wheels that all the Trophy Truck guys run…they are stronger and lighter. These are not show wheels
I don’t think anyone spending the money for a high end serious off-road upgrade like a billet portal setup is buying wheels for ‘bling’. But ok.
@@jamesgodwin6655 I didn't say they were. I'm saying if you look at the market of forged wheels, most are offered in large diameters entirely inappropriate for serious offroad use. Yes, of course there are quality forged O/R racing wheels out there. But they are a small share of the total number of forged wheels offered for sale. Most real forged wheels are bro truck wheels in 20-24" sizes.
@@74weldOh, I'm sure you guys have your stuff together. I find myself nodding and cheering as I watch your videos. I find myself with a lot of "Yes!" and "Finally!" and "Very smart" thoughts as I watch them. I'm just lamenting that the wheel market seems more than ever to cater to the bro truck. Spending drives the market and a large fraction of the dollars are going (on payment plans, most likely) into 22s and 24s that have no place off road.
I especially appreciate your advocacy for high-positive offset wheels. Well done, gents.
Technical explanation of Scrub Radius in an off-road application.
th-cam.com/video/MWGhmWfcO-0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=v9_vtsZ58Ryn_CnF&t=150
Physical/visual example of Scrub radius on a Jeep's front tires and turning circle.
th-cam.com/video/MWGhmWfcO-0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ftOPCAtYLqulNTgy&t=1540
More like engi-queer 😂 cool to see you guys doing the YT!
LOL
It’s funny because you could say the same thing about portal axles
I spy a Bronco from my neck of the woods in the background... Someone up here getting Portals?
Been driving it around. Yes, that’s mine on portals
Well, for what I run, and what I do with my truck, (tall truck, no rocks, all mud) I'll take the wider wheel and tire combo with a good 3.5" to 4" BS and it will work for me. 🙂
Plus, it just looks better. The skinny wheel with the really high BS/positive offset, I'm just not a fan of the look.
Why does ford disagree with you. Isn’t Sasquatch OEM a negative offset?
Ford doesn’t disagree. Nor does any OEM. Sasquatch isn’t a negative offset wheel. New Ford Ranger Raptor is a +55. I don’t know what Sasquatch is off the top of my head but I believe it’s +30
Incorrect information, positive offset puts the wheel mounting surface inboard of the wheel centerline, adding positive offset increases track
Do you guys have it for the Colorado ZR2 2023 or will the Tacoma portals works for the Zr2 ?- thanks guys
It won’t work…but we are looking at the ZR2 platform as a potential for 2024
Dylan must be the youngest engineer in the world
Ha…just looks that way. He started here sweeping floors, moved up through the machine shop, learned Solidworks, learned 5 axis programming, then moved into engineering. He will finish his ME in 2024 but he will run circles around most because of his machining and practical background. He’s mid 20’s with the skill set and experience most don’t have in their mid 30’s