Kudos to see you guys reverse engineer some of the work we did making these steering gears. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Also, 100% spot on that tie rods being the "fuse" of the steering gear.
Thank's for giving us a great explanation and video walkthrough. So much on the forums is filled with mis-information. So we appreciate a professional going through it.
Thank you for a great video and actually verbalizing that the tie rod is intentionally the weak point. I wish more people would understand that. With simple tools and a spare tie rod it’s an easy inexpensive trail fix. The stock configuration Bronco was a good design if ran that way. Any modification, will affect something else! If you plan to wheel your $70,000+ vehicle in the rocks, be smart do all upgrades including this, otherwise be smart and buy a wheeling rig and keep the Bronco for dirt/snow exploring wheeling. Bailey Cole’s race Bronco is a perfect example!
Best explanation I have heard yet. We have 2 Wildtraks. A 4DR and a 2DR. I love my Broncos, but it seems to me that those of us with the HOSS 2.0 are stuck with a sub standard product and will need to upgrade what Ford should have given us from the beginning. I would have paid extra for the HOSS 3.0 if it were available at the time. Steering racks and tie rods are probably my next mod. I am thinking more important than skid plates at this point.
What is the reason to go with the Hoss 3.0 rack and make the housing for it vs 2.0? How many of the OEM 3.0 racks have you seen fail? Why not make the housing for the 2.0 rack so that everyone with this rack doesn't have to purchase a 3.0 in addition to the stronger 74Weld housing? Is the 30% more torque from the 3.0 rack that important? Is there any downside to the 2.0 internals? Thanks!
@Quinn Pultz We would be interested in testing the rack and portals. Our 2Dr Sasquatch manual has a VIN and in process finally. Maybe we could do a Sierra Challenge Video series tackling the most difficult rock crawling trails in California. Thoughts?
Very Excited to see what y’all come up with and very interested in getting one! I’ve had my steering “time out” on three different occasions while wheeling, Twice in Moab and once in Uwharrie. Definitely not a good feeling to loose steering and ready to get the thought if it failing out of the back of my mind.
@@josephburgard6574 Basically loss of all steering, every time it’s happened I’ve had to shut off the vehicle to get my steering back. All three times it was with the front locker engaged while trying to turn while on an obstacle. From what I was told from someone in development is it’s the electric assist timing out. I’m scared to try to overcome it by man handling the steering wheel so usually I roll far enough past that I can get the vehicle into 2wd and then shut it off and restart.
@@moodyblueoutdoors EPS (electronic power steering) units will purposefully de-rate and lower their steering assist output as a protection feature to avoid damaging the internals due to high temperatures and/or consistently high motor currents. When you air down the tires and put the front diff locker on, the rack loads are much larger than normal which shortens the power on (duty) cycle. Try to avoid continuing to steer while an obstacle blocks your front wheel movement as this stalls the motor (causing high motor currents) and only turn your front diff locker when you absolutely need to. Just cycling vehicle ignition won't instantly bring back full steering assist due to the high internal temperature build up. Not trying to criticize your driving skills, I'm no rock crawling expert, just know EPS pretty well.
@@josephburgard6574 Oh I know, two of the time its happened I was actually wheeling with someone up the development chain at Ford and he actually broke the rack in his bronco so we had to trailer it home. My front locker only comes on in extreme need situations which sucks because it’s always a worry in the back of my mind on trips. One of the times we purposely left the bronco running and after 15 minutes steering still hadn’t came back. The other time restarting was my only option because if not I was stuck on the middle of the trail with 35 Gen 6 Broncos behind me.
Thanks for the great video. 👍 When Ford designs these parts, what kind of a worst-case scenario do they use in their design? In other words, what kind of a Safety Factor do they try to incorporate into their design, especially w/a part like this? I would imagine that the Ford Design Engineer runs some kind of a stress analysis on the design, using a Finite Element Analysis (FEA) program, using a Safety Factor say of 2 or 2.5, depending on Ford's Standards, and if it fails, beefs up the design until it does pass. Once passed, they make a physical piece and run it on a Bronco out on the field beating the crap out of it. I own a bone stock 2023 Bronco Black Diamond, which I do drive on dirt roads, but nothing too harsh. I imagine that it only has the HOSS 2.0 rack For peace of mind, I was thinking about going at least w/the BroncBuster Tie Rod BusterBrace Set, since it is such an easy part to install. They also have their BroncBuster Standard BroncBushing Kit as well, which I don't know is a real necessity. I'd have to find someone to install it, which may not be too easy. Thanks!
Would this be something a DIYer install at home? With your product. Also does the Ford Procal have the programming for the Hoss 3.0 rack preloaded or is it something you have to ask for. Thanks
What's the weight difference between hoss 2.0 & 3.0? Could carbon fiber be an alternative? 3d printed cf? or 3d printed metal? I want stronger and lighter parts for my bronco.
@@YtRando69 physical housings will bolt up using the same holes. If you are really worried about rack failures our stage 3 is what you want. You won’t break it
@@74weld so what would cause the driver side steering rack to make noises on a certain spot on the steering? I thought I had an inner tie rod wore out. I took off the boot. It's coming from the rack itself. You can aso feel it when you put your hand on the tie rod and have someone turn it. It makes a crackle type noise too. Jc I only have 3000 miles and haven't really been hard on it. I'm a gentle common sense type of wheeler. The Moab Ford dealer said it's ok to drive like that. They couldn't get me in to look at it officially. My local dealer will try and get out of covering it. I can see that coming. And this is the Hoss 3.0! 🙄
So when these off road shops add a clevis and a heim and change pivot location and angle which will add bump steer along with other things. It’ll make a oem rack fail even more. Same as like on a gen2 raptor. Since a clevis I have seen moves the pivot location out like 1.300” from factory per side.
@@quinnpultz8004 Hey Quinn, yes I would be interested in beta testing the rack, Bronco should arrive in two weeks. You should have my contact info if not let me know and I’ll give you call.
I really hope this new rack you guys are building will be able to be had by the average bronco owner. My main goal with my Bronco is rock crawling and I'm no rich man and would love to be able to buy such an upgrade! Here's hoping.
@@ori0n378e in determining the cost of a motor you wouldn’t compare it to a transmission would you? Portals and a rack are totally different. We expect to be somewhere around 5K for a complete unit. Keep in mind 2K of that is for the HOSS 3.0 which we plan to buy and use internals from
Will you be requiring a "core" from the original 2.0/3.0 rack? Or will be offering your kits totally standalone? I know pricing is far from figured out, but any chance this rack will be less than $10,000?
I think that if you plan to offroad your bronco you need to change HOW the rack bar is stabilized. You can add whatever aftermarket things you want but because the factory rack uses essentially a crush sleeve to set backlash on the rack and pinion there is no way to change how the rack bar is supported on the pinion side. Any bushing on the pinion side that is tight is a bad idea and a bushing that is loose doesn’t support against shock loads. Does this make sense?
Nice details on the differences. I have the 3.0 HOSS setup. I'm not 100% sure I'll need a billet rack, but I believe this is definitely needed for the Broncos. I'd love to run your portals on my Wildtrak!
@@rugu6869 we don’t really do sponsorships but we are developing an ambassador program for people active in the community. Details on this will be released at the end of this quarter
@@quinnpultz8004 Got it! Looking forward to it. Any technical details regarding the portals for the Bronco? Would it be wider than stock (fender flares needed)?
@@rugu6869 we will do some videos here soon. Yes it has to be wider as we package a gear and two bearings all stacked in width. Not much we can change on that. The bronco will be similar specs to the Jeep. We have that info on our site
This is only somewhat correct. We have successfully programmed the rack and I don’t think this is something the “average guy” is going to do. With that said I had several meetings with Ford Performance engineers at KOH and they are eager to support this endeavor. This will be an option in ProCal. If you don’t want the tune, you can get a ProCal for JUST the rack at a lower price point.
A356 is not super strong, neither is 6061-T6, while 7075-t6/t651 is probably the best choice of aluminum for this. 7075 is way stronger, still has 11% elasticity, and is about the same in raw material cost (at most 10% difference).
We feel 7075 is probably not needed in this application. Are we 100% sure…not yet, but to give some perspective, we run 6061 on our portal boxes that do 140mph across the desert and we have never had a failure in over a decade of use. Materials are important but so is design, arguably more so. We are confident that the pinion will shatter before our housing will break
@@quinnpultz8004 I agree with you that design is more important than the pure material strength. Some opined that it could be that 6061-T6 is weldable and 7075-T6 is not, which for Baja/endurance races could be a factor. I appreciate the response!
@@mpeugeot it has nothing to do with welding. We don’t feel 7075 is necessary. 6061 is cheaper and more readily available in the sizes we need. Trophy truck racks are 6061. I see the chatter on the forums and there is a lot of misinformation out there.
Kudos to see you guys reverse engineer some of the work we did making these steering gears. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Also, 100% spot on that tie rods being the "fuse" of the steering gear.
Thank's for giving us a great explanation and video walkthrough. So much on the forums is filled with mis-information. So we appreciate a professional going through it.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for a great video and actually verbalizing that the tie rod is intentionally the weak point. I wish more people would understand that. With simple tools and a spare tie rod it’s an easy inexpensive trail fix. The stock configuration Bronco was a good design if ran that way. Any modification, will affect something else! If you plan to wheel your $70,000+ vehicle in the rocks, be smart do all upgrades including this, otherwise be smart and buy a wheeling rig and keep the Bronco for dirt/snow exploring wheeling.
Bailey Cole’s race Bronco is a perfect example!
Best explanation I have heard yet. We have 2 Wildtraks. A 4DR and a 2DR. I love my Broncos, but it seems to me that those of us with the HOSS 2.0 are stuck with a sub standard product and will need to upgrade what Ford should have given us from the beginning. I would have paid extra for the HOSS 3.0 if it were available at the time. Steering racks and tie rods are probably my next mod. I am thinking more important than skid plates at this point.
What is the reason to go with the Hoss 3.0 rack and make the housing for it vs 2.0?
How many of the OEM 3.0 racks have you seen fail?
Why not make the housing for the 2.0 rack so that everyone with this rack doesn't have to purchase a 3.0 in addition to the stronger 74Weld housing?
Is the 30% more torque from the 3.0 rack that important?
Is there any downside to the 2.0 internals?
Thanks!
Y’all did a great job breaking this down. Thanks. 👍
@Quinn Pultz We would be interested in testing the rack and portals. Our 2Dr Sasquatch manual has a VIN and in process finally. Maybe we could do a Sierra Challenge Video series tackling the most difficult rock crawling trails in California. Thoughts?
Well put together video and great info. Keep up the great work.
…ONLY question…
Will there be package deals for billet rack+portals?
Absolutely
@@quinnpultz8004 heck yes!
Very Excited to see what y’all come up with and very interested in getting one! I’ve had my steering “time out” on three different occasions while wheeling, Twice in Moab and once in Uwharrie. Definitely not a good feeling to loose steering and ready to get the thought if it failing out of the back of my mind.
What do you mean time out? As in temporary steering assist reduction to almost none?
@@josephburgard6574 Basically loss of all steering, every time it’s happened I’ve had to shut off the vehicle to get my steering back. All three times it was with the front locker engaged while trying to turn while on an obstacle. From what I was told from someone in development is it’s the electric assist timing out. I’m scared to try to overcome it by man handling the steering wheel so usually I roll far enough past that I can get the vehicle into 2wd and then shut it off and restart.
@@moodyblueoutdoors EPS (electronic power steering) units will purposefully de-rate and lower their steering assist output as a protection feature to avoid damaging the internals due to high temperatures and/or consistently high motor currents. When you air down the tires and put the front diff locker on, the rack loads are much larger than normal which shortens the power on (duty) cycle. Try to avoid continuing to steer while an obstacle blocks your front wheel movement as this stalls the motor (causing high motor currents) and only turn your front diff locker when you absolutely need to. Just cycling vehicle ignition won't instantly bring back full steering assist due to the high internal temperature build up. Not trying to criticize your driving skills, I'm no rock crawling expert, just know EPS pretty well.
@@josephburgard6574 Oh I know, two of the time its happened I was actually wheeling with someone up the development chain at Ford and he actually broke the rack in his bronco so we had to trailer it home. My front locker only comes on in extreme need situations which sucks because it’s always a worry in the back of my mind on trips. One of the times we purposely left the bronco running and after 15 minutes steering still hadn’t came back. The other time restarting was my only option because if not I was stuck on the middle of the trail with 35 Gen 6 Broncos behind me.
Thanks for the great video. 👍
When Ford designs these parts, what kind of a worst-case scenario do they use in their design?
In other words, what kind of a Safety Factor do they try to incorporate into their design, especially w/a part like this?
I would imagine that the Ford Design Engineer runs some kind of a stress analysis on the design, using a Finite Element Analysis (FEA) program, using a Safety Factor say of 2 or 2.5, depending on Ford's Standards, and if it fails, beefs up the design until it does pass.
Once passed, they make a physical piece and run it on a Bronco out on the field beating the crap out of it.
I own a bone stock 2023 Bronco Black Diamond, which I do drive on dirt roads, but nothing too harsh. I imagine that it only has the HOSS 2.0 rack
For peace of mind, I was thinking about going at least w/the BroncBuster Tie Rod BusterBrace Set, since it is such an easy part to install.
They also have their BroncBuster Standard BroncBushing Kit as well, which I don't know is a real necessity. I'd have to find someone to install it, which may not be too easy.
Thanks!
Would this be something a DIYer install at home? With your product. Also does the Ford Procal have the programming for the Hoss 3.0 rack preloaded or is it something you have to ask for. Thanks
What's the weight difference between hoss 2.0 & 3.0? Could carbon fiber be an alternative? 3d printed cf? or 3d printed metal? I want stronger and lighter parts for my bronco.
Are the Hoss 2.0 and Hoss 3.0 interchangeable? Do they have the same bolt size? For backup purposes
@@YtRando69 physical housings will bolt up using the same holes. If you are really worried about rack failures our stage 3 is what you want. You won’t break it
@@74weld so what would cause the driver side steering rack to make noises on a certain spot on the steering? I thought I had an inner tie rod wore out. I took off the boot. It's coming from the rack itself. You can aso feel it when you put your hand on the tie rod and have someone turn it. It makes a crackle type noise too. Jc I only have 3000 miles and haven't really been hard on it. I'm a gentle common sense type of wheeler. The Moab Ford dealer said it's ok to drive like that. They couldn't get me in to look at it officially. My local dealer will try and get out of covering it. I can see that coming. And this is the Hoss 3.0! 🙄
Thank you so much. I learned a lot
make sure you like and subscribe! and check out the other videos we made explaining our fix for the problem with our new Billet Bronco steering rack!
So when these off road shops add a clevis and a heim and change pivot location and angle which will add bump steer along with other things. It’ll make a oem rack fail even more. Same as like on a gen2 raptor. Since a clevis I have seen moves the pivot location out like 1.300” from factory per side.
You deserve a cookie! This is a yuge over sight when building an IFS steering system.
When will this be available?
Hey Ken! We are testing soon. I expect them to be ready late spring but I can probably get you in as a beta if you are interested
@@quinnpultz8004 I am interested in beta testing! Message me for my info, Bronco build
@@quinnpultz8004 Hey Quinn, yes I would be interested in beta testing the rack, Bronco should arrive in two weeks. You should have my contact info if not let me know and I’ll give you call.
I would be interested in what your new rack would cost. I wouldn't expect it to be cheap, but curious.
make sure you check out the follow up video where we introduce out new billet rack and talk pricing th-cam.com/video/HarbTMAkZzM/w-d-xo.html
I really hope this new rack you guys are building will be able to be had by the average bronco owner. My main goal with my Bronco is rock crawling and I'm no rich man and would love to be able to buy such an upgrade! Here's hoping.
That is our goal as well
@@quinnpultz8004 👍 I know it's not going to be cheap, but hopefully it won't be anywhere near those bad ass portals for the Bronco you make! 😉
@@ori0n378e in determining the cost of a motor you wouldn’t compare it to a transmission would you? Portals and a rack are totally different. We expect to be somewhere around 5K for a complete unit. Keep in mind 2K of that is for the HOSS 3.0 which we plan to buy and use internals from
Well, I guess we have different definitions of "Average Bronco Owner". I'm out, way out of my price range.
Will you be requiring a "core" from the original 2.0/3.0 rack? Or will be offering your kits totally standalone? I know pricing is far from figured out, but any chance this rack will be less than $10,000?
Hoping for less than half that price. No way we will be anywhere near 10K.
So you guys don’t think the current aftermarket bushing for the rack that’s on the market is worth running?
I think that if you plan to offroad your bronco you need to change HOW the rack bar is stabilized. You can add whatever aftermarket things you want but because the factory rack uses essentially a crush sleeve to set backlash on the rack and pinion there is no way to change how the rack bar is supported on the pinion side. Any bushing on the pinion side that is tight is a bad idea and a bushing that is loose doesn’t support against shock loads. Does this make sense?
So what do I install in my Bronco if I do want to play in the rocks on 37s? My rack is toast.
make sure you follow up with our next video on our billet bronco rack replacement th-cam.com/video/HarbTMAkZzM/w-d-xo.html
Portals … use that charge card if u have to. Run those 37’s or bigger .
Nice details on the differences. I have the 3.0 HOSS setup. I'm not 100% sure I'll need a billet rack, but I believe this is definitely needed for the Broncos. I'd love to run your portals on my Wildtrak!
If you have a Wildtrak and want to upgrade the housing we will be able to swap your setup into our housing and save $$$.
@@quinnpultz8004 Tell me more? Any possibility of sponsorship? I'm active on the 6G Forum. Would love to hear about a package with portals possibly.
@@rugu6869 we don’t really do sponsorships but we are developing an ambassador program for people active in the community. Details on this will be released at the end of this quarter
@@quinnpultz8004 Got it! Looking forward to it. Any technical details regarding the portals for the Bronco? Would it be wider than stock (fender flares needed)?
@@rugu6869 we will do some videos here soon. Yes it has to be wider as we package a gear and two bearings all stacked in width. Not much we can change on that. The bronco will be similar specs to the Jeep. We have that info on our site
Sooo, what I’m getting from this is carry spare tie rods and don’t worry about spending money on bushings or sleeves or what not. For my use case.
You can put the HOSS 3.0 steering rack in any Bronco now with FDRS.
Check out the 6G forum. The 3.0 rack has been swapped into a Bronco and they have the coding to go with it completed as well.
This is only somewhat correct. We have successfully programmed the rack and I don’t think this is something the “average guy” is going to do. With that said I had several meetings with Ford Performance engineers at KOH and they are eager to support this endeavor. This will be an option in ProCal. If you don’t want the tune, you can get a ProCal for JUST the rack at a lower price point.
A356 is not super strong, neither is 6061-T6, while 7075-t6/t651 is probably the best choice of aluminum for this. 7075 is way stronger, still has 11% elasticity, and is about the same in raw material cost (at most 10% difference).
We feel 7075 is probably not needed in this application. Are we 100% sure…not yet, but to give some perspective, we run 6061 on our portal boxes that do 140mph across the desert and we have never had a failure in over a decade of use. Materials are important but so is design, arguably more so. We are confident that the pinion will shatter before our housing will break
@@quinnpultz8004 I agree with you that design is more important than the pure material strength. Some opined that it could be that 6061-T6 is weldable and 7075-T6 is not, which for Baja/endurance races could be a factor. I appreciate the response!
@@mpeugeot it has nothing to do with welding. We don’t feel 7075 is necessary. 6061 is cheaper and more readily available in the sizes we need. Trophy truck racks are 6061. I see the chatter on the forums and there is a lot of misinformation out there.
ya, b/c Ford makes things just good enough,
because its a Ford
Get that shit off the surface table . that's a precision surface for measurement with Micrometers and Vert. verniers and flatness measurement .
Nope. That’s just an extra surface plate we have lying around. We have several that are certified annually. This is just for reference.
$80,000 FORD POS