Cat and Kubota have same engine and I went from cat to kubota with same results and no whiplash and less down time. 17 years in the Industry. I ran Cat from 2012 to 2021 and had 5 units . Now 3 97-2 and love them.
So glad someone finally put my thoughts into a video. Market in my area turned into garbage almost overnight because everyone with a tracked skidsteer went out and bought Fecon Bullhogs from the dealer and called themselves forestry contractors and started charging $250/acre. Unreal.
Wow! That is unreal. I don't think that those guys are what you would call intelligent, Because why would you do it for nothing, and that's what you will be left with when you destroy your machine and cant afford to fix it. We have gotten outbid on some of the State contracts by company's just like that. Very frustrating when you are doing it the right way. Thank you for the support!
I think the customers main issue is that paying a higher price is not an issue if you are going to get a higher quality product. If someone is going to pay $2500 a day for mulching, they want to ensure the job is going to get done, no surprises. Charging high prices doesnt make you the best at the job…thats the main issue, selling your quality.
Any business based on service has the same problem: marketing and pricing of an activity of variable complexity. Since "worth" is often thought to be whatever someone is willing to pay, many contractors like to think they deserve a free shot at overpricing. If a customer has deep pockets, no understanding of differing work quality, limited information about prevailing market conditions, or just looks like an easy mark, some service providers feel the need to take advantage. Although demand is fluid, a good reputation is critical, so keep price schedules to either make premium fees or to get more jobs, but don't expect to do both. Compete however you can; the lowest price, the most convenient service, or the best quality, whatever you like, you can even try to be anything to anyone or everything to everyone. However, trying to fix pricing among competitors only reveals a wish to have a monopoly deal where competition is destroyed for the benefit of the few.
Appreciate the time you took in sharing your thoughts & experience in this video. Normally, I click off shortly after starting a vid that shows extended talking, but your common-sense comments kept me engaged. Summary: a) Calculate costs before profit; b) Educate your customer; c) You don't want every customer; d) Choose & use the right equipment; e) Be honest; f) Know -- but don't bash -- your competition; g) Customer isn't always right; h) Understand the difference in pricing scales & choose the appropriate one for the job. And I'll agree with you that folks that trash the market only to leave it when they trash their profit make it tough for the rest of us to stay professional. All one can do is be persistent and wait for the low-hanging fruit to fall when they outbid themselves. Thanks again.
Totally understand the challenges of new entries 'trashing the market'. It's a common practice especially if the customer doesn't understand differentiation among vendors and views the product or service as a commodity. But that's not the customer's fault, that's the vendors. Some ways to separate yourself...and therefore justify your pricing... 1. References in the local area of the prospective customer. Add customer testimonials to your website. 2. Advertise any professional credentials, schooling or awards you may have. And military service. 3. Pick up public works projects every now and then and develop a good relationship with licensing officials. Then add that side of your business to your website. Do some charity work for local schools and add that, too. (You do have a website, right?) 4. Start a TH-cam channel and add some content every 6 months or so. No need to buy expensive equipment nor spend hours editing videos. Make videos of different aspects of your business, not just before and afters, though those are super important. Make a video of how to do maintenance on your machines. Make one explaining the controls of your skid steer. Make one of important things customers should know about contracting...a do's and don'ts that fully supports your business model. 5. Stay away from hourly work as mentioned in the video. Customers want to know upfront how much they are going to pay. But make sure you and the customer are clear on what...and what not...you are going to do. If you're doing a good job during the project, they'll see that and want to add additional work. And that's what you want, just make sure you price the additional work appropriately. 6. With apologies to the EUB, don't use your costs as a reason to justify higher prices than your competitor. Every one of those cost decisions is made by you, not the customer. And your competitors have to make the same decisions, too. Telling the customer they should pay more because of the quality of your forestry head doesn't mean anything to them and it shouldn't. Telling them how your equipment allows you to do a better job in terms of appearance, speed, the environment and other benefits TO THE CUSTOMER is the key to justifying higher costs. Don't wait for the customer to bring up cost. Tell them upfront that your prices may sound a little higher than some of your competitors and then walk them through the benefits they'll get from you. Sell yourself, not your equipment.
Thanks for the comment, i agree with most everything you have stated . We do follow a lot of that. We do work for the county, State, as well as Charity work. We also give discounts to men and women of service as well as employ them.We do feel it is very important to sell service based on what you have and your reputation delivering that as well as sensitive to the needs of the customer. I dont focus a lot on what other people have, because to be honest you never really know, but it shouldnt matter if you have what it takes to get the job done, so confidence is key. Thank you for the very well thought out precise response . It is very beneficial to many that will come to this video.
had the same thing in the pressure washing business i was licensed bonded and insured along with doing quality work it got to where people wanted me to work basically for free . good luck to you sir and thanks for the content . i am learning for my own personal use for the property i have will build a range and want to purchase a bobcat with forestry attachment .
I have the same issue in the dump truck business. Some companies get these guys that charge cheap and then they get in a bind and guess who they call. thats when i charge a little more.
Keep up the videos man! We've have bobcats for years we mostly break concrete and haul offs. We recently bought a fecon attachment. but its difficult pricing it. I don't like going in to a job charging cheap. i try to stay at equal price with everyone. I remember when we use to pay $1 for fuel and made $2000 a week. Now we pay $2.20 and make $1800 a week. Trucking business has gotten really cut throat.
Awesome video man, great info for anyone trying to break into the market. I've found pricing to be a touchy subject in the industry but you did a great job giving a rundown and explaining why it costs what it costs and what the downside to cut rates is. Midstate has some good points too. Some may make "good money" at low rates, but when you have to drop thousands on parts and repairs your "good money" can turn into debt quick. Think about where you need to be in 5 years not 5 weeks. Again, great video and thanks for sharing.
Yeah, I understand the urgency that some of these guys may feel when they get into the business , not knowing if they made the right decision and then they get into panic mode before they have given it enough time at seeing if there advertisement work, and before you know it there are all these low prices floating around. When some of these guys get outbid by a ridiculously low price it frustrates the crap out of them. I have seen it and i understand it. Good comment man, i appreciate the feedback and the support.
Hey thanks for posting this. I am a farmer and I also do some small scale forest work here just outside of Nashville, TN. About a year ago we hired a mulching company to do some underbrush mulching and timber stand thinning on our farm. The company we originally hired out was aware that all of our flagged keeper trees had a wide variety of very specific long term uses, that hinged on tree health, and that it was very important to keep them in good health. Once the operator began the job he quickly realized that he charged us way too little.... Instead of talking to us about increasing the price (which we would have been happy to oblige for a quality result) he tried to rush through the job like a madman and significantly damaged probably 80 percent of our keeper trees in the area he mulched. Huge no go. The keeper trees are huge part of the long term viability of our farm. After pulling him off the job, I rented a forestry mulcher for 1 week and got tons of work done. Having never even operated a skid steer before, let alone a forestry mulcher, I was able to be surgical and fast, and created what I consider a top notch result on the better portion of 18 acres. How could a rookie like me do better than an industry professional?? It seems like there is something to be said about people coming into the industry just looking to make a killing and not even paying attention to quality. We picked this original company because their main operator had a forestry degree and they touted themselves as the most ecologically conscious mulching crews... I'm pretty sure they are no longer in business... All that being said, I have been thinking about entering the mulching industry but can't really decide if it would be economically feasible for me. Truth is, I enjoy it, but would only be able to do work part time. I would not advertise as a land clearing company, but would rather advertise as a low impact land development/design and forest/timber stand improvement service. It seems like there is a niche to tap into. I have my first job coming up. I will be renting the machine again, and i'll make "okay" money. The challenge with renting is that the machine is often tied up on other jobs and because its so expensive to rent, the jobs have to be over $6,000 for it to even be worth it for me. My question is, are there many people who do forestry mulching part time? Economically speaking, is it even feasible in the long run to purchase a machine and work it only part time?
Hey man. I really appreciate you taking the time to do these videos. I am trying to get into the business part time here in South Alabama. We only have two notable consistent operations in my area and the largest one isn't near as big as your operation. I won't belabor you with questions but I wouldn't mind corresponding with you here and there in the near future. Again, keep up the good work. I totally bear witness with your perspective. I have a small brush clearing machine and it has set at the house a lot since I've gotten it because, in spite of panic and/or discouragement, I refuse to wreck my equipment for free. And like you said, people are uneducated, and that's what they will expect out of you if you allow it. And as to the fella that commented earlier about not mentioning the cost of your equipment as a justifier for your price....I'm sure he's way more knowledgeable about the industry than I am . I get what he's saying and I agree that your expenses are based on your decisions(to a degree...decent equipment is going be expensive no matter which one you decide on) not the customers. but at some point...it does have to become the customers problem as well if they want the service. I would never tell a customer that...and I want them to get a good product for a price that they're happy with...but that is the bottom line. You have to make a living and after you pull off from their property and find out that you broke thousands of dollars worth of parts making their place look nice, I can assure you that they won't be there to help.
Thanks Wesley! You are absolutely. A decent machine that will last in this kind of industry is going to be expensive. But you have to make sure you are charging an adequate amount for the jobs so if you do break something (which will happen, its inevitable) you want to make sure you can afford to fix your machine. These machines require a lot of daily and monthly maintenance, and if you are not charging the proper amount you will fail by not having funds to keep going. That's what a lot of these new guys are doing, and they don't make it in the industry because they fail to realize the cost to keep your machine up and running and are just charging whatever they feel they want to charge. I hope that i can keep the market where it needs to be for my kids future and everyone else in the future. We dont need to drown out this field like its going with many other industries. Keep your head up! You dont want every single job anyways. Just remember that the more effort you put in the better results you will see. Good luck with your business and thank you for subscribing!
Extreme Under Brushing, LLC Thanks man! Things are starting to pick up. I've started getting interest from landscape design companies that want to sub out small clearing jobs in residential areas that they are working. Small niche but there seems to be a need around here. Thanks for the feedback and advice. Have a great week!
Renting the skid steer for long term is tax deductible and you aren't responsible for maintenance..sometimes that's a better option...buy the head but rent the machine...
You really have to shop the market in your area and see if there is a demand for it. There is a lot of places that are unstable and rocky terrain that just are not suited.
I have the gen 2 lofness head on a sk 120. Its ok. Low maintenance. Whats the take on the cimaf vs fecon. Salesman says twice the production with the same hydraulics and super long bearing life. Their guy was supposed to quote me a head and never called back. Fecons been good. Was thinkin about sticking their dcr rotor in my head to see how itd work🤑
Mclaughlin custom shredding Inc both really good heads man but I just did a video where you can look at them a little closer and a lot of guys are going to chime in that may have used both heads. I personally have both hands right now but we are very new to the Dennis heads they seem to be awesome so far.
very educational I under stand other companys calling complaining I under stand over head gas bills maintenance on trucks, equipment etc keep the videos up I watch vertec equipment other clearing land videos etc like I said keep the videos up, I like
Thanks Man! Who is Vertex? Maybe you can send me a link and i will check them out. I'm always interested in good companies and like to keep up with the technology other companies have and use. That's a good way to make good choices on future equipment, cause this stuff is not cheap. LOL We have some new equipment coming, hope to have it by next week so i can bring yall some new stuff.
I think the main problem man is people worry about right now and not the future of their buissness and also don't know their operating cost, seen guys come and go over the past 4 years, and you get the guys who get a good price on a used machine and then run at 75-85 an hour because of a low cost on their Machines but they end up shooting them self in the foot because that machine will only go so long before it has consistent problems and they have to go into a newer machine and then they realize they arnt charging enough, the difference between this buissness and a tree buissness is that you rely on these machines to make you money where tree company rely on them selfs and a few chain saws. These machines are a bitch to keep alive and efficient over 1-3 years that's why I don't think these guys running at even 125 an hr will survive in the next 2-3 years due to machine costs.
I agree with you 100%. And i have people i know that try the method of used machines. Unless you are a part time guy, its not even worth it, and even then why would you want to go real cheap for part time? But it really comes down to what you said about thinking long term. Honestly its kind of selfish to think about just yourself in the time being. Im trying to think about my kids futures. Thanks for the feedback, i really appreciate it.
hey man im new to your line of profession. ive worked on and ran tractors and equipment for a long time but never brush clearing like the way yall do it. ive been contemplating for about 2 years now on weather to get into this line of work for myself or not. doing my research on pricing profit and cost of ownership and then i stumbled upon your channel and its like wow man. like you really believe in this and i dig it man. but anyway man i just wanted to get your take on it as a professional and to see if what and how im going to do this is the right way or not. any kind of response would be a major help. i know for sure i need a newer truck and trailer and ive been talking to the guys at the local cat and bobcat dealers now about there machines. and i found out that theres only 2 guys in a 200 mile area that brush cut like you do so i believe the market would be pretty fair where im at. like i said man any response would be helpful. thanks for your videos and your knowledge and i hope you have a great day.
i did alot of research befor getting into this. and i dont have near the gear you have, plus im in your area. :/ i have watch almost all your videos. if i ever get a job to big, ill tell them to call you, or maybe one day we can work together, dont hate me , lol
Great video,, I'm not in the business but I will be looking at this for a possibility for a future small business just for me,, jumping in an established market and watering down the work for everyone is never a good idea for everyone..
I don't think anyone should be getting into mulching unless ur big business. Big business will undercut you guys just to eliminate the competition. You are full of smoke!!! Between tree company , construction company, n lawn companies they can stump grind, mowe, tree removal, mulch, brushogg, take huge tax deduction and pulverize the little guy .... I have tried to beat your rates and I have ... not that hard. A big business will take the loss and call it PR ... don't try to justify 1500 day rates. I just got a construction co. At 750.
I'll give you a like even though I think you could have organized your message a little better. You also need to consider how varying business models can be more or less profitable. Many mulching contractors around my area also do excavating, landscaping, and whatever else they can do to employ themselves and their equipment. Some own, some rent. Their billing structures and overhead vary. Some do mulching only when they have a number of jobs lined up. Probably spending more time developing your business plan and service catalog, along with learning to estimate a job better would be the largest help a person could do themselves. A customer doesn't typically care about your business plan or overhead, but will research things to try to get a per acre or per hour cost for your service.
lol, it’s called capitalism. There’s nothing wrong with a new business coming into the market with lower prices. IF the company survives, it causes the other companies to tighten up and be more efficient. Lecturing newbies isn’t going to help your situation, a situation where a potentially lucrative business has caused allot of people to get into the same business.
Congratulations for being a young kid wanting to be in business for himself, but quit crying and go to work. Sounds like you're up to your eyeballs in equipment debt because you decided to buy a bunch of brand new equipment on credit. Now You're frustrated because you're having problems charging enough money to pay for it all. Some of us worked hard for years to save some money so when a good opportunity to buy a decent piece of used equipment came along we could do it without taking out a huge loan and charge a little less since were not suffering under a mountain of debt. Thats really how its supposed to work anyhow....you take something you worked hard for and invest it in something you are highly proficient at, and thats a pretty good recipe for success, not walk into an equipment dealer sign for a bunch of equipment and get into a new trade. You said you got out of tree work because it had become less lucrative than it had once been so it sounds like you're new to mulching....not that theres all that much to know about it unless you're doing a lot of work in riparian areas that may require permits or government oversight. Im guessing You took a big gamble because you saw the crazy rates guys were getting, if you didnt consider that that would attract a lot of new businesses and rates would moderate some thats not your customers problem to financially mitigate. You talked about educating your customers, but all i heard were marketing buzz words. You didnt mention one technical, quantifiable piece of information about the mulching process. You shouldn't be educating them about how great and high end your equipment is. You should be finding out what they want to achieve with their project and sharing your expertise on a few options and any possible pitfalls that might be encountered and let them make their own decision. Maybe you and your equipment are the best option and maybe not. Maybe the customer doesn't want to take your advice and their not a good customer for you. Just saying it sounds like you're doing the wrong kind of customer education. You mentioned you didnt like hourly and would rather just do per job price and said if im going to mulch their back yard ill just charge 1000$ and it takes me a half hour or an hour .......do you really think your shiny new machine is worth 1k an hour? Ive been in business almost 30 years and most of my friends are long time self employed, but none of us are making quick easy money. Heres a secret, theres no legal way to make quick easy money. Gold rushes, fur booms, oil booms, they all shine for afew years and fizzle out. $1000 an hour for a bobcat and mulcher is in the same class, you should know thats not going to last. Dont go blaming everyone else for fact that the prices are moderating....that happens with new technology. Big flat screen TVs were 3k when they first came out and only a couple companies made them, now they're 200. Same with mulchers now 20 companies make them and you can get them a little cheaper. For most applications the only difference is speed which in most instances doesn't affect what the job is worth.....to mulch 5 acres of brush is 1500$ dont matter if it takes 2 hours or 6 hours.
go more in depth on equipment, different ones how one works better than the other,over head not on how u run ur company but on y u charge what u do I live were only one company like these exist and they can't keep up but there over charge just Caz of that,not cool a lot of ppl rent,any way keep the videos company
Good video. Fly by nighters are startin in here mostly farmers with skid steers. We run a power pack 200 deere excavator and they are stating they do better work cheaper. Mostly hedgerow facing. Skidders only go ten feet at most and its a dangerous situation in that machine. We go thirty feet with ease at three times the pace. Hard to explain to clients who arent in the know of how this works. Been mulching with fecons for fifteen years. Thinkin about trying a cimaf. Looks more productive but have never been around one to see what kinda wood it cuts. Hedgerows cut hard. Keep up the vids
We work with a Kumatsu 300 with Denis cimaf head. We use it to do the tree from the top down on big projects. If you use the smaller machines to do the underbrush first , the excavator can get close to an acre a day by itself on medium growth trees. That Cimaf head is an animal on the Kumatsu, but make sure you duck cause stuff flies over 100 ft sometimes. Not a residential set up by any means. Im not a big fan of the fecon excavator head, to be honest. Scared the crank real bad after barring went out several times on the new one, before we sent it back, very frustrating ordeal. But there skid steer heads are awesome!
Yea. The higher the reach the farther it flies. Fecons been good to us. We are on our side third head. Nothing to do with wear just keepin up with the technology. Cimaf looks pretty good tho.
Fecon has always been good to us up until this last go around.They flat out refused to cover it and it was an obvious manufacture problem. We have purchased close to 10 heads from them and i was not expecting the treatment i got from them. That's why we have all these new heads here, like the Brown, Loftness, and Cimaf.
@@extremeunderbrushingllc6287 That's cause they are asses.. surely Kevin, this area (Southeast Texas) regional manager.. We're getting a Lamtrac LTR6140T and the new LTR6170T out of Lufkin.. just the pops and I... #hurricaneland
Let’s be real, the issue is dudes wanna make 150-200k running a glorified landscaping business meanwhile they’re sending low skilled $35-$50/hr operators out and expecting top dollar. Then complain about their equipment costs and how much it takes to run a business. Most of yall have equipment parked 20 weeks a year. This is manual labor this isn’t building custom cars, cybersecurity or the stock market.
Yeah, you are just too big for your budget. Your "small time" competitors are what keeps prices low. Which just bust your bubble. Too bad, so sad for you. Competition is what makes America great. It keeps you from monopolizing the entire market. Quit crying. And lower your prices. Quit resting on your florals. Get out and get jobs because you are better at it. Educate,! Hmph. You sound like you'd be right at home with a union steward giving a thousand reasons why you can't get it done. Wrong thinking, bad thinking. Yeah, comfortable for you.
I know a business has the right to charge what they want to but charging someone an outlandish amount is just wrong. To me from what your saying is that a new company that starts up and has lower prices is hurting your business because there not charging someone a high amount. Maybe its because your charging people way to much. Regardless, I know for a fact that i can rent a skid steer with a forestery mulcher attachment and use it on my property for way less than what i can have any forestry mulching business come in and do it. I know you all have overhead costs and need to make a profit but some of the land clearing people want to rob a customers pocket book. Its down right disgraceful how much some of them charge. Not saying there all like that but there are alot.
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Good info and all true!
Cat and Kubota have same engine and I went from cat to kubota with same results and no whiplash and less down time. 17 years in the Industry. I ran Cat from 2012 to 2021 and had 5 units . Now 3 97-2 and love them.
So glad someone finally put my thoughts into a video. Market in my area turned into garbage almost overnight because everyone with a tracked skidsteer went out and bought Fecon Bullhogs from the dealer and called themselves forestry contractors and started charging $250/acre. Unreal.
Wow! That is unreal. I don't think that those guys are what you would call intelligent, Because why would you do it for nothing, and that's what you will be left with when you destroy your machine and cant afford to fix it. We have gotten outbid on some of the State contracts by company's just like that. Very frustrating when you are doing it the right way. Thank you for the support!
I think the customers main issue is that paying a higher price is not an issue if you are going to get a higher quality product. If someone is going to pay $2500 a day for mulching, they want to ensure the job is going to get done, no surprises. Charging high prices doesnt make you the best at the job…thats the main issue, selling your quality.
Any business based on service has the same problem: marketing and pricing of an activity of variable complexity. Since "worth" is often thought to be whatever someone is willing to pay, many contractors like to think they deserve a free shot at overpricing. If a customer has deep pockets, no understanding of differing work quality, limited information about prevailing market conditions, or just looks like an easy mark, some service providers feel the need to take advantage. Although demand is fluid, a good reputation is critical, so keep price schedules to either make premium fees or to get more jobs, but don't expect to do both. Compete however you can; the lowest price, the most convenient service, or the best quality, whatever you like, you can even try to be anything to anyone or everything to everyone. However, trying to fix pricing among competitors only reveals a wish to have a monopoly deal where competition is destroyed for the benefit of the few.
Appreciate the time you took in sharing your thoughts & experience in this video. Normally, I click off shortly after starting a vid that shows extended talking, but your common-sense comments kept me engaged. Summary: a) Calculate costs before profit; b) Educate your customer; c) You don't want every customer; d) Choose & use the right equipment; e) Be honest; f) Know -- but don't bash -- your competition; g) Customer isn't always right; h) Understand the difference in pricing scales & choose the appropriate one for the job. And I'll agree with you that folks that trash the market only to leave it when they trash their profit make it tough for the rest of us to stay professional. All one can do is be persistent and wait for the low-hanging fruit to fall when they outbid themselves. Thanks again.
Totally understand the challenges of new entries 'trashing the market'. It's a common practice especially if the customer doesn't understand differentiation among vendors and views the product or service as a commodity. But that's not the customer's fault, that's the vendors. Some ways to separate yourself...and therefore justify your pricing...
1. References in the local area of the prospective customer. Add customer testimonials to your website.
2. Advertise any professional credentials, schooling or awards you may have. And military service.
3. Pick up public works projects every now and then and develop a good relationship with licensing officials. Then add that side of your business to your website. Do some charity work for local schools and add that, too. (You do have a website, right?)
4. Start a TH-cam channel and add some content every 6 months or so. No need to buy expensive equipment nor spend hours editing videos. Make videos of different aspects of your business, not just before and afters, though those are super important. Make a video of how to do maintenance on your machines. Make one explaining the controls of your skid steer. Make one of important things customers should know about contracting...a do's and don'ts that fully supports your business model.
5. Stay away from hourly work as mentioned in the video. Customers want to know upfront how much they are going to pay. But make sure you and the customer are clear on what...and what not...you are going to do. If you're doing a good job during the project, they'll see that and want to add additional work. And that's what you want, just make sure you price the additional work appropriately.
6. With apologies to the EUB, don't use your costs as a reason to justify higher prices than your competitor. Every one of those cost decisions is made by you, not the customer. And your competitors have to make the same decisions, too. Telling the customer they should pay more because of the quality of your forestry head doesn't mean anything to them and it shouldn't. Telling them how your equipment allows you to do a better job in terms of appearance, speed, the environment and other benefits TO THE CUSTOMER is the key to justifying higher costs.
Don't wait for the customer to bring up cost. Tell them upfront that your prices may sound a little higher than some of your competitors and then walk them through the benefits they'll get from you. Sell yourself, not your equipment.
Thanks for the comment, i agree with most everything you have stated . We do follow a lot of that. We do work for the county, State, as well as Charity work. We also give discounts to men and women of service as well as employ them.We do feel it is very important to sell service based on what you have and your reputation delivering that as well as sensitive to the needs of the customer. I dont focus a lot on what other people have, because to be honest you never really know, but it shouldnt matter if you have what it takes to get the job done, so confidence is key. Thank you for the very well thought out precise response . It is very beneficial to many that will come to this video.
Koi u o line ppl o ïiuo I’ll k UK u moo hi o gab y guy bi
The free market is a bitch. But thats America for you.
had the same thing in the pressure washing business i was licensed bonded and insured along with doing quality work it got to where people wanted me to work basically for free . good luck to you sir and thanks for the content . i am learning for my own personal use for the property i have will build a range and want to purchase a bobcat with forestry attachment .
I have the same issue in the dump truck business. Some companies get these guys that charge cheap and then they get in a bind and guess who they call. thats when i charge a little more.
Yup, you get what you pay for. They will eventually learn and hopefully stick with you. lol
Keep up the videos man! We've have bobcats for years we mostly break concrete and haul offs. We recently bought a fecon attachment. but its difficult pricing it. I don't like going in to a job charging cheap. i try to stay at equal price with everyone. I remember when we use to pay $1 for fuel and made $2000 a week. Now we pay $2.20 and make $1800 a week. Trucking business has gotten really cut throat.
Awesome video man, great info for anyone trying to break into the market. I've found pricing to be a touchy subject in the industry but you did a great job giving a rundown and explaining why it costs what it costs and what the downside to cut rates is. Midstate has some good points too. Some may make "good money" at low rates, but when you have to drop thousands on parts and repairs your "good money" can turn into debt quick. Think about where you need to be in 5 years not 5 weeks. Again, great video and thanks for sharing.
Yeah, I understand the urgency that some of these guys may feel when they get into the business , not knowing if they made the right decision and then they get into panic mode before they have given it enough time at seeing if there advertisement work, and before you know it there are all these low prices floating around. When some of these guys get outbid by a ridiculously low price it frustrates the crap out of them. I have seen it and i understand it. Good comment man, i appreciate the feedback and the support.
Hey thanks for posting this. I am a farmer and I also do some small scale forest work here just outside of Nashville, TN. About a year ago we hired a mulching company to do some underbrush mulching and timber stand thinning on our farm. The company we originally hired out was aware that all of our flagged keeper trees had a wide variety of very specific long term uses, that hinged on tree health, and that it was very important to keep them in good health. Once the operator began the job he quickly realized that he charged us way too little.... Instead of talking to us about increasing the price (which we would have been happy to oblige for a quality result) he tried to rush through the job like a madman and significantly damaged probably 80 percent of our keeper trees in the area he mulched. Huge no go. The keeper trees are huge part of the long term viability of our farm. After pulling him off the job, I rented a forestry mulcher for 1 week and got tons of work done. Having never even operated a skid steer before, let alone a forestry mulcher, I was able to be surgical and fast, and created what I consider a top notch result on the better portion of 18 acres. How could a rookie like me do better than an industry professional?? It seems like there is something to be said about people coming into the industry just looking to make a killing and not even paying attention to quality. We picked this original company because their main operator had a forestry degree and they touted themselves as the most ecologically conscious mulching crews... I'm pretty sure they are no longer in business... All that being said, I have been thinking about entering the mulching industry but can't really decide if it would be economically feasible for me. Truth is, I enjoy it, but would only be able to do work part time. I would not advertise as a land clearing company, but would rather advertise as a low impact land development/design and forest/timber stand improvement service. It seems like there is a niche to tap into. I have my first job coming up. I will be renting the machine again, and i'll make "okay" money. The challenge with renting is that the machine is often tied up on other jobs and because its so expensive to rent, the jobs have to be over $6,000 for it to even be worth it for me. My question is, are there many people who do forestry mulching part time? Economically speaking, is it even feasible in the long run to purchase a machine and work it only part time?
Hey man. I really appreciate you taking the time to do these videos. I am trying to get into the business part time here in South Alabama. We only have two notable consistent operations in my area and the largest one isn't near as big as your operation. I won't belabor you with questions but I wouldn't mind corresponding with you here and there in the near future. Again, keep up the good work. I totally bear witness with your perspective. I have a small brush clearing machine and it has set at the house a lot since I've gotten it because, in spite of panic and/or discouragement, I refuse to wreck my equipment for free. And like you said, people are uneducated, and that's what they will expect out of you if you allow it. And as to the fella that commented earlier about not mentioning the cost of your equipment as a justifier for your price....I'm sure he's way more knowledgeable about the industry than I am . I get what he's saying and I agree that your expenses are based on your decisions(to a degree...decent equipment is going be expensive no matter which one you decide on) not the customers. but at some point...it does have to become the customers problem as well if they want the service. I would never tell a customer that...and I want them to get a good product for a price that they're happy with...but that is the bottom line. You have to make a living and after you pull off from their property and find out that you broke thousands of dollars worth of parts making their place look nice, I can assure you that they won't be there to help.
Thanks Wesley! You are absolutely. A decent machine that will last in this kind of industry is going to be expensive. But you have to make sure you are charging an adequate amount for the jobs so if you do break something (which will happen, its inevitable) you want to make sure you can afford to fix your machine. These machines require a lot of daily and monthly maintenance, and if you are not charging the proper amount you will fail by not having funds to keep going. That's what a lot of these new guys are doing, and they don't make it in the industry because they fail to realize the cost to keep your machine up and running and are just charging whatever they feel they want to charge. I hope that i can keep the market where it needs to be for my kids future and everyone else in the future. We dont need to drown out this field like its going with many other industries. Keep your head up! You dont want every single job anyways. Just remember that the more effort you put in the better results you will see. Good luck with your business and thank you for subscribing!
Extreme Under Brushing, LLC Thanks man! Things are starting to pick up. I've started getting interest from landscape design companies that want to sub out small clearing jobs in residential areas that they are working. Small niche but there seems to be a need around here. Thanks for the feedback and advice. Have a great week!
Renting the skid steer for long term is tax deductible and you aren't responsible for maintenance..sometimes that's a better option...buy the head but rent the machine...
lol so right my friend, you absolutely do not want every customer
Great video. Can you do a video on how to get into this business? I'm interested in just doing just mulching specifically. Is that a good idea?
You really have to shop the market in your area and see if there is a demand for it. There is a lot of places that are unstable and rocky terrain that just are not suited.
I have the gen 2 lofness head on a sk 120. Its ok. Low maintenance. Whats the take on the cimaf vs fecon. Salesman says twice the production with the same hydraulics and super long bearing life. Their guy was supposed to quote me a head and never called back. Fecons been good. Was thinkin about sticking their dcr rotor in my head to see how itd work🤑
Mclaughlin custom shredding Inc both really good heads man but I just did a video where you can look at them a little closer and a lot of guys are going to chime in that may have used both heads. I personally have both hands right now but we are very new to the Dennis heads they seem to be awesome so far.
Here comes Pappy on his old Ford 8N and 5' deck mower for $40 an hour!
Did I get the wrong idea or are you hinting that the 2017 Kubota SVL 95-s is not a good machine VS Cat or Boobcat?
very educational I under stand other companys calling complaining I under stand over head gas bills maintenance on trucks, equipment etc keep the videos up I watch vertec equipment other clearing land videos etc like I said keep the videos up, I like
Thanks Man! Who is Vertex? Maybe you can send me a link and i will check them out. I'm always interested in good companies and like to keep up with the technology other companies have and use. That's a good way to make good choices on future equipment, cause this stuff is not cheap. LOL We have some new equipment coming, hope to have it by next week so i can bring yall some new stuff.
I think the main problem man is people worry about right now and not the future of their buissness and also don't know their operating cost, seen guys come and go over the past 4 years, and you get the guys who get a good price on a used machine and then run at 75-85 an hour because of a low cost on their Machines but they end up shooting them self in the foot because that machine will only go so long before it has consistent problems and they have to go into a newer machine and then they realize they arnt charging enough, the difference between this buissness and a tree buissness is that you rely on these machines to make you money where tree company rely on them selfs and a few chain saws. These machines are a bitch to keep alive and efficient over 1-3 years that's why I don't think these guys running at even 125 an hr will survive in the next 2-3 years due to machine costs.
I agree with you 100%. And i have people i know that try the method of used machines. Unless you are a part time guy, its not even worth it, and even then why would you want to go real cheap for part time? But it really comes down to what you said about thinking long term. Honestly its kind of selfish to think about just yourself in the time being. Im trying to think about my kids futures. Thanks for the feedback, i really appreciate it.
I'm guessing this guy is out of business. Hasn't had a FB post in over a year. 🤷♂️
Awesome video
Have you had any problems with the new undercarriage on the T770?
hey man im new to your line of profession. ive worked on and ran tractors and equipment for a long time but never brush clearing like the way yall do it. ive been contemplating for about 2 years now on weather to get into this line of work for myself or not. doing my research on pricing profit and cost of ownership and then i stumbled upon your channel and its like wow man. like you really believe in this and i dig it man. but anyway man i just wanted to get your take on it as a professional and to see if what and how im going to do this is the right way or not. any kind of response would be a major help. i know for sure i need a newer truck and trailer and ive been talking to the guys at the local cat and bobcat dealers now about there machines. and i found out that theres only 2 guys in a 200 mile area that brush cut like you do so i believe the market would be pretty fair where im at. like i said man any response would be helpful. thanks for your videos and your knowledge and i hope you have a great day.
i did alot of research befor getting into this. and i dont have near the gear you have, plus im in your area. :/ i have watch almost all your videos. if i ever get a job to big, ill tell them to call you, or maybe one day we can work together, dont hate me , lol
Not at all. We work with many other companies pretty regularly. So don't hesitate to give us a call if you ever need help on a job.
Great video,, I'm not in the business but I will be looking at this for a possibility for a future small business just for me,, jumping in an established market and watering down the work for everyone is never a good idea for everyone..
I don't think anyone should be getting into mulching unless ur big business. Big business will undercut you guys just to eliminate the competition. You are full of smoke!!! Between tree company , construction company, n lawn companies they can stump grind, mowe, tree removal, mulch, brushogg, take huge tax deduction and pulverize the little guy .... I have tried to beat your rates and I have ... not that hard. A big business will take the loss and call it PR ... don't try to justify 1500 day rates.
I just got a construction co. At 750.
I'll give you a like even though I think you could have organized your message a little better.
You also need to consider how varying business models can be more or less profitable. Many mulching contractors around my area also do excavating, landscaping, and whatever else they can do to employ themselves and their equipment. Some own, some rent. Their billing structures and overhead vary. Some do mulching only when they have a number of jobs lined up. Probably spending more time developing your business plan and service catalog, along with learning to estimate a job better would be the largest help a person could do themselves. A customer doesn't typically care about your business plan or overhead, but will research things to try to get a per acre or per hour cost for your service.
I live in Alabama, how does being in Alabama affect your business growth? Enough land in America to Clear!
lol, it’s called capitalism. There’s nothing wrong with a new business coming into the market with lower prices. IF the company survives, it causes the other companies to tighten up and be more efficient. Lecturing newbies isn’t going to help your situation, a situation where a potentially lucrative business has caused allot of people to get into the same business.
I guess you didn't understand the part about how these guys are low-bidding themselves into bankruptcy.
Congratulations for being a young kid wanting to be in business for himself, but quit crying and go to work. Sounds like you're up to your eyeballs in equipment debt because you decided to buy a bunch of brand new equipment on credit. Now You're frustrated because you're having problems charging enough money to pay for it all. Some of us worked hard for years to save some money so when a good opportunity to buy a decent piece of used equipment came along we could do it without taking out a huge loan and charge a little less since were not suffering under a mountain of debt. Thats really how its supposed to work anyhow....you take something you worked hard for and invest it in something you are highly proficient at, and thats a pretty good recipe for success, not walk into an equipment dealer sign for a bunch of equipment and get into a new trade. You said you got out of tree work because it had become less lucrative than it had once been so it sounds like you're new to mulching....not that theres all that much to know about it unless you're doing a lot of work in riparian areas that may require permits or government oversight. Im guessing You took a big gamble because you saw the crazy rates guys were getting, if you didnt consider that that would attract a lot of new businesses and rates would moderate some thats not your customers problem to financially mitigate. You talked about educating your customers, but all i heard were marketing buzz words. You didnt mention one technical, quantifiable piece of information about the mulching process. You shouldn't be educating them about how great and high end your equipment is. You should be finding out what they want to achieve with their project and sharing your expertise on a few options and any possible pitfalls that might be encountered and let them make their own decision. Maybe you and your equipment are the best option and maybe not. Maybe the customer doesn't want to take your advice and their not a good customer for you. Just saying it sounds like you're doing the wrong kind of customer education. You mentioned you didnt like hourly and would rather just do per job price and said if im going to mulch their back yard ill just charge 1000$ and it takes me a half hour or an hour .......do you really think your shiny new machine is worth 1k an hour? Ive been in business almost 30 years and most of my friends are long time self employed, but none of us are making quick easy money. Heres a secret, theres no legal way to make quick easy money. Gold rushes, fur booms, oil booms, they all shine for afew years and fizzle out. $1000 an hour for a bobcat and mulcher is in the same class, you should know thats not going to last. Dont go blaming everyone else for fact that the prices are moderating....that happens with new technology. Big flat screen TVs were 3k when they first came out and only a couple companies made them, now they're 200. Same with mulchers now 20 companies make them and you can get them a little cheaper. For most applications the only difference is speed which in most instances doesn't affect what the job is worth.....to mulch 5 acres of brush is 1500$ dont matter if it takes 2 hours or 6 hours.
go more in depth on equipment, different ones how one works better than the other,over head not on how u run ur company but on y u charge what u do I live were only one company like these exist and they can't keep up but there over charge just Caz of that,not cool a lot of ppl rent,any way keep the videos company
Nicolas Luna hey just posted the video on the different style heads go check it out hope that helps!! and I hope you enjoy it.
Good video. Fly by nighters are startin in here mostly farmers with skid steers. We run a power pack 200 deere excavator and they are stating they do better work cheaper. Mostly hedgerow facing. Skidders only go ten feet at most and its a dangerous situation in that machine. We go thirty feet with ease at three times the pace. Hard to explain to clients who arent in the know of how this works. Been mulching with fecons for fifteen years. Thinkin about trying a cimaf. Looks more productive but have never been around one to see what kinda wood it cuts. Hedgerows cut hard. Keep up the vids
We work with a Kumatsu 300 with Denis cimaf head. We use it to do the tree from the top down on big projects. If you use the smaller machines to do the underbrush first , the excavator can get close to an acre a day by itself on medium growth trees. That Cimaf head is an animal on the Kumatsu, but make sure you duck cause stuff flies over 100 ft sometimes. Not a residential set up by any means. Im not a big fan of the fecon excavator head, to be honest. Scared the crank real bad after barring went out several times on the new one, before we sent it back, very frustrating ordeal. But there skid steer heads are awesome!
Yea. The higher the reach the farther it flies. Fecons been good to us. We are on our side third head. Nothing to do with wear just keepin up with the technology. Cimaf looks pretty good tho.
Fecon has always been good to us up until this last go around.They flat out refused to cover it and it was an obvious manufacture problem. We have purchased close to 10 heads from them and i was not expecting the treatment i got from them. That's why we have all these new heads here, like the Brown, Loftness, and Cimaf.
@@extremeunderbrushingllc6287 That's cause they are asses.. surely Kevin, this area (Southeast Texas) regional manager.. We're getting a Lamtrac LTR6140T and the new LTR6170T out of Lufkin.. just the pops and I... #hurricaneland
So the Mexicans messing up the profit margine? Lmao
vertex
Let’s be real, the issue is dudes wanna make 150-200k running a glorified landscaping business meanwhile they’re sending low skilled $35-$50/hr operators out and expecting top dollar.
Then complain about their equipment costs and how much it takes to run a business.
Most of yall have equipment parked 20 weeks a year.
This is manual labor this isn’t building custom cars, cybersecurity or the stock market.
Kind of sounds like you're talking about price fixing. The US government frowns on that.
No he isn't lol.
Yeah, you are just too big for your budget. Your "small time" competitors are what keeps prices low. Which just bust your bubble. Too bad, so sad for you. Competition is what makes America great. It keeps you from monopolizing the entire market. Quit crying. And lower your prices. Quit resting on your florals. Get out and get jobs because you are better at it.
Educate,! Hmph. You sound like you'd be right at home with a union steward giving a thousand reasons why you can't get it done. Wrong thinking, bad thinking. Yeah, comfortable for you.
I know a business has the right to charge what they want to but charging someone an outlandish amount is just wrong. To me from what your saying is that a new company that starts up and has lower prices is hurting your business because there not charging someone a high amount. Maybe its because your charging people way to much. Regardless, I know for a fact that i can rent a skid steer with a forestery mulcher attachment and use it on my property for way less than what i can have any forestry mulching business come in and do it. I know you all have overhead costs and need to make a profit but some of the land clearing people want to rob a customers pocket book. Its down right disgraceful how much some of them charge. Not saying there all like that but there are alot.