How Kingdom Hearts 2's Combat Is Special
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 เม.ย. 2019
- Let's look at why Kingdom Hearts 2 is one of the most badass action games ever made.
/ wondermagenta
ko-fi.com/wondermagenta
Script: docs.google.com/document/d/1R...
Music used:
Persona 4 - New Days
Shin Megami Tensei IV - Ikebukuro Underground District
Kingdom Hearts 2 - Sora
Kingdom Hearts 2 - Deep Anxiety
Kingdom Hearts 2 - Lazy Afternoon
Devil May Cry 3 - Dante's Office 7 Hells Battle
OutRun 2 - Passing Breeze
Kingdom Hearts 2 - Sanctuary
Sources:
IGN Review: www.ign.com/articles/2006/03/...
Kingdom Hearts 2 AGDQ speedrun by BB: • Kingdom Hearts II Fina...
Data Org speedrun: • Kingdom Hearts II Fina...
Video on RCs by Best Guy Ever: • Reaction Commands in K...
Let's talk about jumping by Tim Rogers: kotaku.com/lets-talk-about-ju...
Peter Pan clip: • Kingdom Hearts 2.5: So...
All other footage my own.
#kingdomhearts2 - เกม
Whatever was smoked making kh2's combat needs to be smoked again
Northern lights
It was the god smoke
Seriously 😂
At least twice
Man what... snorting 8balls
KH1: requires defensive skill.
KH2: requires offensive skill.
KH3: Just play around with sh*t idc.
Lol for real all three games are amazing.
kh1 requires skill?
YourWaifuIsShit Are you saying that KH 1 on proud didn’t kick your ass? Sephiroth hello?
@@raknikmik It really didn't, Sephiroth was the only exception but even then not by much. I remember Riku-ansem killing me more then twice so I went up 2 levels and then he suddenly became a cakewalk.
YourWaifuIsShit my childhood would beg to differ
I like the Revenge value system because it feels like a more
dynamic fight, no one realistically would just stand there and the best part is
there is a counter for their counter of you if you learn the fights. Very dynamic I wish DMC had more of it.
What you mean this concept is old and have been used over and over in gaming history. You hit the enemy/boss enough until they do a sudden move to push you back. KH2 didn't invented it. DMC and God of War has the exact same things in place, so does clunky games like Dark Souls. H3ll, even old arcade games like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series, Battletoads, Konami's Super Nintendo Side Scrollings, and most Beat N' Up games over abused this system. This is nothing special really, it is just an anti stunlock mechanism.
I think there's a difference between a timed retaliation from a boss and this. Also you're bringing up god of war is funny when this game is older XD@@lflintx
@@KevinTheCardigan Seems like you are one those youngsters who started gaming in PS4 era and thinks that God of War is a recent franchise. The original God of War from PS2 is from march 2005 bruh, Kingdom Hearts 2 only came out in december of same year.
KH1 had a revenge system, and it came out in 2001. KH2 just has a far more refined system. Bringing up GoW and DmC because 'KH2 didnt invent it' is weird when KH1 was developed same year as Devil May Cry and came out several years before GoW@@lflintx
God of war came out first so please don’t try and downplay GoW in any way please there are multiple great games that use a similar system as it mostly falls down to how it’s used, kh2’s combat to me personally had always felt quite unique compared to other games and is quite enjoyable, but GoW’s combat is also unique in what they want.
To be honest the entire argument of one copied another shouldn’t be taken seriously as there are multiple variants and the struggle to be “unique” is a hard one and it’s not uncommon for one another to take inspiration from something, kh2 has obvious inspiration for it, possibly taking from other ideas and expanding it to work with their own
Kingdom Hearts 2's combat is easy to play but hard to master.
A button masher isn't going to be defeating Sephiroth or Lingering Will or the Data Org.
Yeah 10 year old me learned that shit the hard way.
Sephiroth is a piece of cake compared to Data-battles and LW.
@@milanmalfait9914 He is, but still button mashers won't stand a chance against ANY post-game boss.
facts
Raikaria sephiroth is only hard when you don’t understand his attacks and how to react.... or if your under level like me when i was 12. “why can’t i beat him” (lvl 35 lol)
One thing RSS Liam pointed out about Reaction Commands after his first playthrough of KH2FM is that while many of them may not have a lot of particular depth and may not mesh well with Sora's general moveset and the more advanced, high-level gameplay available in KH2, they are the "punctuation" of a particular enemy's 'character'. For me, RCs are setpieces that I would argue enrich the experience of KH2 from a spectacle standpoint, because they allow so many non-boss Heartless/Nobody enemies that would get taken down in a combo or two or get wiped by a Limit then forgotten to have a certain lasting memorability on the player's mind. And they do this in a way that doesn't sacrifice too much substance for style.
Even if superficial in function, the way RCs slow down or transition the combat without necessarily breaking momentum makes almost every single mob fight have one or more 'highlight' moments to them. A single Morning Star among a group of Shadows or Armored Knights? Single it out not just because it's the biggest threat, but the prospect of countering its body slam attack then basketball-dribbling it to AoE every enemy in range is subconsciously exciting. A group Soldiers? Line as many of them up as you can so that when one of them tries to dive kick retaliate, you get the pleasure of taking a number of them out with a swift Cyclone. These are just two examples of the ways that RCs influence the player's decision making without necessarily cornering them into a dominant strategy. So even if some of them don't feel earned and admittedly feel like "Press triangle to win" moments, they do so much to make individual enemy species feel special and unique in a combat system that doesn't stop you from striking first and slaying them before you can even see what sets them apart anyway. And I think in the long-term history of the game, they are almost as much of what makes KH2 special and memorable as the endless depth of the core combat.
i like this argument!
I really have to agree. I grew up watching kh2 videos. I already thought kh1 was pretty cool but the reaction commands made me think of how cool sora became. not only that, some of them are genuinely fun and don't seem out of place. the game prepares you for reaction commands by having heartless or nobodies have a similar reaction command that helps you understand what you need to do. for example the samurai heartless have begin duel as their RC. without them I wouldn't have been able to use it on roxas, much less be able to beat him. you know how in typical rpg cutscenes, the mc does some dynamic movement or some shit but then the gameplay transitions to a turn based system or something similar, that's not how it's. your fights are just as interesting as the cutscenes. It's a risk/reward thing that makes you feel like you're fighting the way the cutscenes show. I have so much fun fighting even regular mobs and that's really good game design because you don't want players getting bored in the gameplay. I'm not a fan of turn based rpg's because of how the flow goes for most mob fights, the only interesting ones being the boss battles. Kh2 is just so good at making you feel like a total badass. the warp snipe reaction command is still one of my favorites to this day. the moment I see a sniper, I immediately think, can't wait to send it right back at you.
I feel there’s a difference in “looking at a cool cutscene” vs feeling cool. In dmc 3, when you pull off a royal guard, you feel cool. When you mash triangle & literally watch the fireworks, you’re just looking cool. That said, I don’t think RCs should be removed entirely, just maybe add some timing element, or make them rewards for something like stunning an unflinching enemy with a guard (idk.)
@@benankenman3909 maybe like a follow up to a dodge or block against certain moves, or the end of a combo finisher while the enemy is staggered or hit by a certain effect like reflect or thundaga depending on the RC? Allowing you to learn what to do to set it up and have your own input into how it's executed, while adding a level of challenge and reward to the input rather than it just being a mash triangle button. There's a lot you can do with RCs to make them less... shit.
@@willuigi64 Personally I dont mind a system of spectacle in a game loaded with skill depth like KH2. Nothing wrong with just having that one thing in the fights like RCs. I do love the ones that are you reacting to enemies performing certain attacks or taking advantage of something. The nobodies have the best ones in the game.
It does make enemies stand out. I can not tell you much about the KH3 enemies because I just blew through them all like wrapping paper. None of them stood out to me until I fought the new nobodies then felt sad about not having some kind of RC for them.
I consider Revenge Value the pinnacle of 2's combat, actually, with the way it rewards mastery and encourages experimentation. Coming from fighting games, I consider prediction more valuable than reaction.
the thing is that, in KH2, you're not reacting to another player, you're reacting to a computer. there's no logical reason (be it in the game world or with how the mechanics are set up) to stop combo-ing when the enemy is taking full hit stun UNLESS you just know that the computer is about to dick you.
@@ziadbruh Yes, but consider what happens when you don't implement revenge value into the game. You can either very easily break bosses with all the ways you can keep comboing for eternity in this game, or you get BBS bosses that just don't get staggered seemingly at random.
In a revenge value system, you always know that when the enemy retaliates, and he's done doing it, you are free to attack again without tripping some new invisible line. More than that, I can 100% predict when the boss will try to fight back since the combos don't have random Revenge Value gains. Bosses also tend to only retaliate with one attack string, whereas in BBS bosses can just go on tirades without end for random reasons.
Perhaps Revenge Value could've been better implemented with some degree of tutorializing for it, so that players just aren't aware of hte mechanic at all. However, I think it is the key to KH2FM's amazing boss battle back and forths.
@@mattrocde you gotta play DMC3 or bayonetta my dude.
@@ziadbruh I've played both, and while I think their systems have more baseline merits than a revenge value based system, there's a LOT of games like KH2 that just fuck up with not having any system in place at all, leading to less enjoyable fights. Either the bosses never get staggered in the first place, or they randomly become immune to staggering.
Revenge value's biggest weakness is the lack of transparency to the player, and maybe it's just because I've played the game so long, but that feels like the only true weakness of the system to me. That, and having a rather small pool of forced revenge moves. It's a system that can heavily reward experienced or skilled players, as they are never truly forced to stop fighting with stuff like reflect and guard counters.
I do definitely agree that stuff like Marluxia's retaliation are cheap, but you can just wait for a retaliation against bosses like that before hopping back in. It's a system with hard, predefined limits and rules, which I greatly enjoy due to its rewarding of learning the fights. That's not to say other systems don't allow that, but that RV does it quite well as a concept, with a few fumbles in specific cases.
nah.
KH2 may have launchers, but does it have Suplexes? 9/10
My idea was to make Air Thunder meteor foes into the ground.
Making it the "vertical" move in contrast to Fire's "Horizontal" and Blizzard's "Depth" in the tridimensional axis.
By the way, the reason KH works as well as it does is that: it has a balanced covering of the tridimensional axis, something the vast majority of games lack due. (Guess most devs are indeed a bunch of 2D nerds)
When's izuna drop? 🥱
I hope kh4 feels as rhythmic and flowing as kh2 while obviously adding what Nomura wants for the new game when it comes to combat.
KH2's battle system is never coming back. Thats why the mod community tries it's best to keep the game alive with new ideas. KH4 will feel just like KH3. They are not going to "regress", even though they should try to replicate KH2's battle system as best as possible while also throwing in new ideas.
I hope that for kh4 they add many of the good parts of the combat systems from all kh games into one master piece
Its sad but they dont recognize the genius they had and believe that the kingdom hearts brand will carry on
Open KH video, persona music plays.
Perfection.
;)
Ikr
Ah I love it and then the next thing I see is a comparison to god hand
Followed by SMT. He knows it all.
Love it 😭
You haven't felt button mashing until you fought data xemnes
6 guards for his dm and for his opening move, after you can wail on him. You're welcome
FFXV & KH3’s battle systems still don’t top the majesticness of KH2’s
kh3's battle system just isnt good
ff15 is just horrible but kh3 can never beat kh2. Maybe if they tweak the guarding then it would be better but most of the boss fights are trash except for the late game ones however all of them are worse than there kh2 versions.
@@fuckin_uuuh9944 I disagree
KH3 might not be as deep or complex as KH2 but it's decent, it has a lot of neat ideas and is also a learning experience for the Osaka team for how to make a battle system more similar to KH2 while incorporating their own ideas (also it's a way to completely get rid of the terrible command deck system from BBS and DDD).
As for FFXV.... NOTHING can save that game.
@@fuckin_uuuh9944 just imagine how great this game could have been if the same team as 1 and 2 developed it. everything about this game was extremely disappointing. the combat was just boring and the story that i was really excited for never once gripped me the way 1, 2, and re chain did. crazy to me that re chain had a far more interesting story and voice acting than 3. in 3 i think it was stupid to change disney worlds when the previous worlds had ongoing, unfinished stories. like you can tell the original intent was to have the beauty and the beast story conclude in 3, but they just wiped it out in for new worlds i couldn't care less about. in 1 and 2, sora felt like part of the story in the disney worlds, felt like he belonged. in 3 he just feels like a spectator, just there to watch recent disney movie advertisements. i literally had to force myself to beat 3 once, and i sold it immediately after. and i will never play or any new kh games from this team again. why they even switched teams i can't begin to comprehend. a team that made 1 which was amazing, then made 2 which improved on it in nearly every possible way, and they replace them to give us this garbage? i literally wouldn't buy kh4 for $5 on day 1, unless it was to turn around and sell it without even playing it.
for me, this series consists of kh1, re chain, kh2, with bbs and 258 days being decent side stories.
KH3 curbstomps 2 in every category
KH2FM has the best combat in the series imo. It's my favourite KH game and it's definitely better than KH3.
I can agree with that. Doesn’t mean KH3 is a bad game though
DetectiveBobbyFulbrightTheSpiritofShiningJUSTICE Gameplay wise it’s pretty decent and fun. The story sucks ass tho. A 7/10 combat with 4/10 plot makes KH 3 pretty mediocre to me
@@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE It's not bad, but it could have been a LOT better. The only reason I'm still playing it rn is because of Critical Mode.
Bluejay17 yea i agree KH3 combat is not bad at all, it has some really cool ideas. However the PLOT, which is very important to me, is terrible. My first play through i could barely stand the cutscenes, and on my 2nd playthrough i skipped everything. Lol I had to question my love for the series
@bluejay Eh, agree to disagree then. I honestly loved the story.
I love KH2 combat feel most of all. But I also love KH1 tech point system that rewards players for fighting well, along with its MP resource management which makes Save Points more valuable. BBS Command Deck is nice too.
They have these great ingredients to combine to create the ultimate KH game.
If you play your cards right you dont need to rely on save points in KH1. Fore example Bambi costs just 1 Mp but he drops a lot of MP orbs that will resore youre MP completly. With stuff like MP rage, MP haste and Goofys MP gift you never really have to worry about running out.
Not that I think thats a bad thing. I like that Mp management.
I always choose the wand at the beginning.
I have to add I only played the vanilla KH1. Not Final Mix
I agree on the Tech Point system, it should've come back a long time ago, it was one of the best ideas in KH1.
LuNicz crazy thing is tech points seemed to be in KH3 trailers in like, 2015 and then they were just never seen from or heard from again
tasoganedude KH3 tried to combine mechanics from every game but uh yeah...
@@SSlash I haven't played KH3 yet. So I don't really wants spoilers. And I'll bet that the combat still doesn't feel like KH2.
I dont think you can explain why the combat in KH2 is great without getting into the animation. One of the most well animated games in gameplay. It does for flow and weightlessness what monster hunter does for timing and weight.
I thought I liked kingdom hearts for the story, instead I realized it was for the mechanics.
@Master Razor the roxas fight is where video games peaked
It’s both for me lol.
@Hooded Boi because he realized that the mechanics is what kept him engaged until the next cut scene... Ever since i played through KH3 back in February i came to that realization as well. Its a GAME not a Movie, if it has trash mechanics the overall experience suffers drastically. That doesnt just apply to this series
@@ShadowGearStudios although some games stories top their mechanics like MGS
KH complex mechanics and thrilling bosses have always been a must along side its cool story cutscenes
@@ziadbruh The Roxas fight was the 1st time in Critical mode where I got my ass handed too me, and i loved every second of it lmao.
The crispness is something that's just lost in Kh3. Every hit even the finisher feels just it's there for a second. None of them feel hard hitting and responsive imo
@The Internet is Always Crying Only one wrong here is you. Soras ground combat is not as fluid or as responsive unless you have a keyblade transformation and even then the repetitive combos for those do not save it. Air combat? especially during Aerial Recovery? You are STUCK, you cannot move and are a sitting duck. So the defense it grants becomes useless rather quickly depending on the enemy, where as in KH2 its always useful.
The Internet is Always Crying You couldn’t be more wrong KH 3 is floaty af since every game after KH2 was made by the B team.
@@UnifiedEntity if you're getting stuck when fighting in the air you need to git gud, there are so many options when you're in the air, you can air slide away from attacks, aerial guard, items and keyblade changes can be used midair, heck you can literally press x/a to get i-frames and jump back into a fight after an aerial recovery, the movement (especially in combat) is so much smoother on KH3 but your nostalgia goggles are superglued to your face.
@@JackOfAllTradesErik Get good ? Are you dumb? If I get hit in the air , Sora will be stuck and there is nothing to be done. And I played the game day one on its release on Proud mode and only died against Master Xehanort 🤣🤣this isn't my first rodeo with kingdom hearts so spare me. "Get good" the games floaty ass combat needs to get good. Aerial guard ALSO keeps you in the fucking air, gravity, momentum and inhertia doesn't not exist in kh3. So how about you get off your hands and knees cause you need lotion from sucking kh3 off so much.
@@UnifiedEntity KH2 dicksuckers pride themselves so much on their Lv1 Crit runs but you're triggered by "git gud", give me a fucking break, also Osaka KH is best KH
I agree. Aqua is indeed a queen.
If she breathes...
KH2FM already has HP barriers like that Vergil example. Lingering Will for example has 2 barriers where he will always enter forced revenge as soon as you hit that HP barrier regardless of Revenge Value. I very much agree though that forced revenges caused by RV should've been reactable. Great video though, always glad to see people appreciate 2FM as much as i do while being able to actually explain why.
thanks for clarifying, glad you liked the video!
You can still combo him a bit after that and I think final form firaga ignores that HP gate
Hello Ruby Rose pfp
If it does, you gotta be frsme perfect, I've een hit in between@@jonnysac77
The reason why KH3 is so disappointing to people is because KH2 (and KH1 to an extent) allowed you to dance at your own pace when attacking enemies.
In KH3, you only dance at one tempo that stays consistent throughout the entire game. If you don't do anything else than combos, the game quickly becomes like playing the same song on a keyboard. You can't remix or alter the composition. You must commit and hope the one tempo you're at is what you enjoy.
Fire spam, SC spam & SL Spam makes everything else useless.
Swooping in at the last moment to steal the place of April's best video.
too kind ;__;
Delayed reaction command options for the recent value attacks could’ve been interesting. Like during the Xemnas solo fight, if you wait, the reaction command as you’re running up the skyscraper changes; having a reaction command pop up when the boss is about to revenge attack would be soooo cool, and rewarding players for being quick and expecting it by giving them a counter vs. giving players a simple block/evade if they hit it last minute.
I wish there was more if that. The only 2 I know are the xemnas solo fight and rangarok.
KH2 is my best game to play out of the series. The combat system is just the best to me. Kh3 yeah i like where the story going but the combat system is not so good to me
kh2 also has a way better story than kh3
@@flamehiro Osaka team just doesn't get that "Interesting and solid gameplay > Flashy firework spells". Though i have to admit that they are starting to get better - Phantom Aqua Fight in 0.2 is a good example. KH3 Critical is an improvment... Maybe give them a few more games and they'll understand what made KH2 so great...
@flame While I can agree with that, I still enjoyed KH3’s story regardless
@daichi I’m honestly really excited to see what the future games story has in store for us. HYPE!!!
@@Ghostel3591 i think they understand. i just think they dont really care. osaka team was a mistake.
When you play KH2 vanilla, you will noticed there's a lot of wasted skills and moves in the game even on proud mode. I can see why Limit form wasn't in there because it would of really broke the game. Vanilla KH2 didn't have much endgame content, most of the end grind was pointless once you beat Sephiroth.
KH3 is going through the same treatment too. We’ll definitely get the Final Mix goodness through dlc.
KH 2 had a few thing that make it a better game than KH 3 anyway that people ignore. The 1st one is the worlds, the 2nd one is the bosses and finally the Story. All those 3 thing were way better than kh 3, which makes even KH 2 vanilla Superior and We have Final fantasy characters too and Sephiroth. Kh 3 doesnt have any of this things.
@@raulrojas9253 just looking at KH3 made me didn't want to get it because I don't like there isn't any endgame that's worth playing.
@@raulrojas9253 1) the disney worlds were meh on average. I actively hated Atlantica and was less than satisfied with Pride lands. Tron and Steamboat willy were the only standouts to me
2) Bosses were about the same. Only difference were a) reaction commends (which funnily enough was lambasted in vanilla. so who knows what people want anymore) and b) a few org fights in the middle. 3 can fix the latter. I do prefer KH2's disney bosses but mostly because I liked the films represented more, not because I found the fights better executed.
3) story is better but that's because it didn't have 5 sidegames and a mobage of baggage to carry. Hope the next arc is a soft reboot of all that so people don't have to complain about memorizing all that.
Raul Rojas The worlds in 2 were redundant and narrow so that’s a no. Vanilla 2 bosses weren’t all that, there were more Disney bosses if that’s what you’re talking about. But the bosses in 3 were much more enjoyable. I’ll give you the story as for Kh 3 my biggest complaint was the pacing after all. But to say the vanilla kh 2 is better than vanilla kh 3 is absurd and false.
1) I don't know whether to be impressed or disappointed that you finally started Xenoblade X and your first thought was "hmmmmm i think i'll name my character poopyfart"
2) This video was sick. This is definitely one of the more well researched KH2 analysis I've seen, which I really appreciate. It's easy to say "KH2 is great because it has so many relevant options that interconnect with each other" without explaining *why* these options are relevant and what makes them interconnected, and I think you did a good job at doing the combat system justice. That bit at the end about KH2 being so unique really resonated with me, because these intertwining systems aren't unique for the sake of being unique, but they're instead built around *each other* which is what makes it click and stand out. Except, y'know, as you mentioned, the command menu. Yeah.
Props for owning a copy of that PS2 JoJo game, by the way.
1) shout-out for noticing ;) only popped it in for footage though, still gonna be a while before i properly start X. i was thinking of the original xenoblade (which i HAVE finished) when i wrote the script but i thought X would just look better.
2) thank you! that really was the intent behind the video and i'm glad it seems to have payed off.
real talk, i wanted to make a video about golden wind PS2 for christmas last year but i had too much on my plate at the time. hopefully this year.
Kh2 combat system is amazing.
Dude! Nice Job, this video is very well done and the editing is high quality. Can't believe that you're not blowing up yet.
thank you! just gotta keep trucking along.
I've been looking for a video like this thanks. After getting burned out on vanquish I needed something else that's pretty complex to dig my teeth into, so I picked up KH2 because I heard it would scratch that itch. I tried to get into it, but while it was fun, I couldn't really see the depth. A lot of videos I looked into said it was deep but now why or how I could find that depth. In other words I needed a mechanical breakdown so I would be aware of the options I had which you provided. So that's a new sub you got. Again great video
thank you, glad it was of value to you!
Kh2 physics and gamplay with kh3 graphics would be breathtaking.
I don't kinda think so. For example. Can you imagine dmc 3 with dmc 4 graphics? In my mind physics is the thing that is tied to graphics.
It will be definitely better than kh3 remind. That’s for sure
KH2 is the best
The issue with that is the team who made KH2 doesn't exist anymore, and the team that made BBS is the team making KH games nowadays. They finally got rid of the command deck system and tried to make KH3 a little more like 2 with abilities but it's a little bland and can feel repetitive
@@sonofashoopuf8681 Yea i understand but perhaps if mayority of the fan base really let them know what we want, they would experiment more and bring back KH to its glorious days :P
Son Of A Shoopuf the team that made KH2 does still exist and guess what game they’re making? Final Fantasy 7 Remake
Jaleel Khaleeq Thanks for reminding me about the FF7 remake, if they don’t reveal ANYTHING about it at E3 I’m gonna be pissed.
@@sonofashoopuf8681 Being fair, it's not that they got rid of the Command Deck, it's just that this is a main series game, which always use a similar system to the original. If they do more handhelds or side games, Command Deck or a variation will probably return.
I'm glad someone was finally able to put this into words
my pleasure!
This video was phenomenal is EXACTLY how I feel about the battle system of Kingdom Hearts 2! I do wish KH3 was similar in that aspect and I still hold that KH2 was the best in the series.
Ive never had so much fun fighting emo black coat bois and sad large ants more than in this game. 15/10 combat fr. I think i played through the game once cuz i was bored of another games system
So glad I was recommended this video! Subbed!
hope i'll make it worth your while!
I like your idea of the button remapping, although it excludes the target switching (R2 + right stick).
Also saw your video history and noticed you're the same dude who made the DMC4 vid about functional design! Subbed!
thank you! got loads more coming!
I know that not everyone is as analytical about games as others are but I truly feel like not enough people give this game credit for just how well thought out all of it's mechanics are. This game was made all the way back in 2005 and I still feel like it's the pinnacle of ARPG combat even among its own series, even outclassing a lot of dedicated action games. The more I think about it, the more I really wonder just how a team of people making games about a boy with clown shoes battling shadow creatures and star wars expies alongside disney characters crafted such a beautiful system that even the current team can't begin to touch.
Also, man don't even get me started on Nier. That game was a mechanical disaster which is a shame considering who was developing it.
100% on all of that.
"not enough people give it credit"
Dude literally 90% of the kh fanbase praises it
@@m1ssconductor686 i still think why KH2 is so good isn't fully understood yet by a lot of action game players OUTSIDE of the kingdom hearts community though. partly why i made this video!
@@m1ssconductor686 I know that but I mean outside of the fanbase. Hardly anyone talks about it and if anything, due to the praise the game also get's a lot of hate since no one can let it go.
Vien hard disagree on that, most comments i see are “stop blindly thinking kh2 is the best, it’s not fanboy” yea that was many comments i’ve seen not exactly the same but always along those lines
Nice in depth video about the combat of my favorite game.
The comparisons are really good as well
Lovin the video man!
i havnt finish it yet but im already sold
came here from reddit
thanks dude, hope you stick around!
@The Internet is Always Crying alright
This video deserved to blow up. Good as hell.
thank you!
Elemental magic in KHI has some differences. Fire is a single projectile, but blizzard is a shotgun and thunder make multiple thunderbolts hit from above in an area around the target.
But in practice I agree that they feel less different, I guess for blizzard instead of it being very effective at close range (when you can use physical attacks anyway) the only difference is that it's not useful at long ranges. (In medium ranges the spread is too narrow to really be concerned about.)
Thunder is the same as KHII. I did use it more because it is reliable at long range (fire is really not) and useful for dispatching concentrated weak enemies quickly, so there's that.
I guess KHI fire just sucks? I'm not a Pro.
@@nngnnadas thanks for clarifying a bit on KH1. KH2 fire is really good for shadow crowd control or when paired with wisdom/final form IMO
I love how most of the gameplay is on that pre data organization room. You use everything you ever had and learnt in the game on that one room, it's just perfect.
It took me about 4 weeks to pass it on level 1, just trying for like 2 hours everyday.
It's kinda weird that the game doesn't really tell you about a lot of these things, at least from what I can remember, like for example that the drive gauge refills faster if you are on mp recharge. It's weird, but that is one of the things I love about KH2, the combat is there for you to explore how complex it is, but you don't really have to if you don't want to, the game doesn't force you, that is a as much a good thing as it is a bad thing, that's why people say that if mashing X works why should you do anything else, you should do something else because you want to explore the combat system and discover better and more effective ways to deal with enemies. People don't say that kind of stuff too much about other games because the difficulty of those games almost forces them to discover what the combat system offers, KH2 doesn't force you to do anything, it was made to be enjoyed even by a little kid, you then have the optional bosses and the higher difficulties if you want a harder challenge, and in those oh boy you are going to have to learn the combat system.
Thanks for the great vid! Didn't think anyone else out there would be making these in-depth videos regarding KH2FM combat. I'll admit these are a guilty pleasure of mine. I DO encourage you to give the LV 1 challenge a try. Easily one of the best times I had playing a video game and overcoming a difficulty curve. It hits 'Soulsbourne' games' level of difficulty, but it's thrilling. Anyway, great video! Keep up the quality content
glad you liked it, thank you!
Also I don't mind the reaction commands in KH2. The issue is the timing is not tight and the button is always Triangle. Thus in any RC situation you can just mash triangle.
yeah it would be much better if it had a tight timer and could be any one of the 4 face buttons.
still far superior to those lame ass attractions i couldnt even stand to look at so i never used them.
god of war style just more random. even 2 buttons for more death lol
I agreed with most of what you said, but there's a couple of things you mentioned in the last third of the video i wanna talk about. First of all summons. In critical mode the first summon Chicken Little is invaluable for a lot of mob fights, if you're a certain distance away from enemies and Chicken Little is next to you, he whistles automatically, which stuns all the enemies and brings them in close to you so you can fire them to death. If there isn't a crowd he'll throw a baseball which launches a single enemy. For early worlds this little guy is awesome. Stitch has a nifty instant full MP recharge, and you don't need to be completely out of MP for him to use it, he will also block pretty much any projectile (Snipers) or if enemies launch themselves at you as a projectile (the nobodies that swipe your ankles from underground) and his summon gauge won't go down faster because he can't be hit, he's not on the field. Pan has a more niche use for cheese strats. Secondly, reaction commands, some enemies actually do have reaction commands that will only activate if you block their attacks (Think samurai nobodies) and the resulting reaction command is very useful in any situation where those enemies appear. Some bosses have reaction commands that will stun them, creating an opening. Like prison keeper. It's also very weird now to go into KH3 and go against some of the same nobodies and not have the reaction command, like warp snipe or reversal which only served to add another layer of depth to the combat and aid to fight these enemies in critical mode which early game is basically don't get hit mode.
But i enjoyed this video, i agreed with everything else. But i don't blame you for not really paying attention to summons, i didn't actually know the usefulness of any summons until i started watching speedruns and started playing critical mode
i'm aware the summons are USEFUL, they just don't really emphasize what i find enjoyable about the combat system. i actually went out of my way to test if the samurai duel command needed some kind of prerequisite to be met and the game has definitely offered it to me at points without me actually doing anything. again, the problem isn't that they're not useful, there's just very little strategic about actually using them IMO. i agree on KH3.
@@ziadbruh But they DO emphasize the fun. They give you a huge support which allows you to replace your party members for temporary, very powerful ones while allowing you to stay as BASE SORA; so you can now fight with your full moveset without the draw backs of drives. You said you didn't experiment much with them, but I do think you should give them some more exploration next playthrough.
@@weewer3369 i'll keep this in mind
@@ziadbruh I think sometimes the sumurai will just iniate the duel stance on their own, other times if you block their attacks it'll put them into the duel stance, and yet others your party members will sometimes parry their attacks which causes them to yet again go into duel stance. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but those are just some things I've noticed while playing that seem to happen to me whenever I fought against them.
About reaction commands, there is some randomness to them, but a lot of times it is based off what you do to the enemy, such as the soldier, you hit him 3 times and you get cyclone, the robot guys in 1000 heartless, they can give them to you but if you hit them with thunder it will give it to you immediately, samurais give you duel stance when you parry/block them, large bodies give you full swing when you stagger them, berserkers give you their claymore when you stagger them, assassins self destruct when they get to low health and you can react with the reaction command(I forget the name). I could go on and on but my point is it may seem random but it really is one of the many many options kh2 has. Great video btw!
Great video
And
Great OST Choice
A great video! The control layout toward the end is certainly not for everyone, as you'll have to really have got it memorized, and even after that I'll still do all the things I don't intend to.
i think it should be fine if the UI is helpful enough -- plus with limits and summons, you really only have to press the respective button once for the initial activation
Really great video, I was looking for people talking about the combat, and you went in depth perfectly about it, talking about pros and cons. I think this is the best action combat ever but I was totally ignorant of the revenge meter stuff.
Your video was absolutely amazing, I love how you explain everything. Great job : ) also sidenote I did do a level 1 run and its possible but agonizing, I still havent beaten final Xemnas because of all the phases there are with the city, and the ship, and then fighting with Riku. Its a bit daunting.
kh2’s combat is still the goat
and i love it
100% the game and beat lv 1 crit
but with re:mind, i really want to say kh3’s combat (at least against the superbosses) is the second best in the series, especially with the revenge value system making bosses teleport away first and giving you a second to defend yourself and the ability to guard and use items in the air, as well as cancel your combo immediately into a defensive option (guard/dodge roll/air slide)
i’ve also 100% and done lv1 crit kh3
and 2fm and 3rm are tied for my favorite game of all time for different combat-related reasons
I can appreciate kh3 for it's improved combat and the dlc bosses, I think the data battles in kh3 were better than kh2. But that's all it has kh3 story and the rest of the game is still trash imo
Great video mate, but I do disagree on what you said about the magic system in KH1. Fire and Blizzard have a lot of situational use aside from the elemental damage, due to fire being a homing missile and blizzard being a shotgun blast. I also think that Gravity has a lot of unique uses for it as well, like crushing larger enemies and bringing aerial enemies downward. I do think KH2 overall has a better magic system, but I don’t 1’s is as bare bones as you described it. Aside from that good job, I also think the new controls idea for KH2 was a wonderful idea.
Subbed just for the SMT music in the background.
Thank you for making this video so I can just send it to people who ask why I like KH2 instead of trying to explain it poorly myself
Really glad to have found this video. I needed to study this combat system carefully for one of my own projects. Thanks!
If you do level one runs of kh2, you will truly see why the combat in this game is so good.
To be fair, lvl 1 on Critical is just “die in one hit from everything”
Simple don’t get hit. Use the games abilities to your advantage and watch patterns. If you charge in blindly like normal you will fail. Maybe I’m just a masochist but I know I can beat the entire game secret bosses and all on lvl 1. It just takes a deep understanding of the games mechanics.
@@DesolationsFire I can handle bosses in LV1 up to Data Roxas and others, but Data Xemnas, Marluxia and Lingering Will, they scare me.
Agreed. I just recently beat Final Xemnas on my Lvl. 1 Crit run a couple months ago.
Learning how every boss works an how to counter really made me appreciate the game and it's mechanics.
OwN Avenged Instead of those skrubs that button mash in Standard or Proud, or KH1 Standard.
This video made my day, thank you so much I needed this!
This video was a masterpiece!
@@DBMAX3K aw dude, that makes me so happy haha. really glad you enjoyed it this much!
A lot of reaction commands can be gotten through fulfilling certain conditions, mostly blocking correctly. Many reaction commands are great because they reward you for doing things in combat, like blocking attacks or attacking water clones in demyx fight. Hell, even sephiroth reaction command tests your reaction command. I have had times where I didn't react fast enough and died to his reaction command move on my lvl 1 crit run.
Ah, so that's why you guys keep talking about KH2! Next time I play it I will definitely try out the stuff you were talking about, it sounds awesome!
I guess Sora T-poses when using reflect in Wisdom Form. Nice
Ye
I'm four years late to this video, and this was one of the most thought-provoking and insightful video essays on combat I've seen. Well worth the sub! Here's hoping youve done more KH coverage in the last 4 years lol
sorry to disappoint lmao
Theres always time lol. but truly, well done. this was fantastic.@@ziadbruh
helpful tip about the command menu, holding left trigger and using the right joystick will lets you use it menu as well as let you run away from enemies.
I swear on everything holy, if we get the KH 1.5/2.5 on the Nintendo switch......
You already know
I've been wanting this for years now. I actually just found a petition for it a couple of minutes ago lol. It's perfect for the switch.
a distant fantasy...
It won't matter too much because Kingdom Hearts has already been on a Nintendo console before, Sora's already eligible for Smash.
It will come trust me
I really like KHII. Most of your combat options flow together really well.
your controls are f***ing brilliant omg
I should've subbed to you back when I saw your video on DMC's style switcher. That was great and this is too, so I'm not making that same mistake twice. You really know what you're talking about.
no worries dude, glad you came around!
Hard disagree on the revenge value system section, but otherwise fantastic video.
And summons. Chicken Little is best crowd control, Stitch is fantastic for keeping you alive.
Kord Kitsugi was gonna say, this dude ain't about to leave stitch out. Damn near invincible.
"Chicken little is best crowd control"
I cant even believe thats a real, logical sentence
Yeah, he was talking mad shit about revenge value, but I honestly think that it's NEEDED in a game like KH2.
I don't, however, think it would work in any other JRPG, though.
@@raccoonofmotivation20 "Chicken little is the best crowd control until you get magnet" would be a better statement imo
He's still pretty good even after you get magnet.
Fun fact, you can actually navigate the command menu with the right stick if you hold down L2 or R2 (I forget which of the two it is), can't do it in KH3 because you go through the situation commands with those buttons.
yeah, plus you can invert the function of L2 so that, by default, the right stick just navigates the menu and only rotates the camera when L2 is held down. but i didn't want to cram it in the script like that.
some of my words are here, you are here too, thanks for this, you rock wonder!
The reaction command to block against Sephiroth is mostly there for people who either don't have or choose not to equip block (or dodge). It's basically an option to not need block and still avoid damage from that particular attack.
you're guaranteed to have block by this point in the game, and i don't think the game needs to accommodate players who inexplicably choose to not equip it. and if that's the explanation then the attack has no real reason to exist in the first place.
@@ziadbruh I think its a lore thing. Sephiroth has that attack too in Dissidia and its homing and accuracy is very pinpoint. Or maybe its just for aesthetics.
Awesome video, KH2 is clearly a strong game for sure !!
Entering that berserk mode with final form allowing for the endless destruction is my favourite combination
26:46
Assuming we're talking about the same thing, the samurai nobodies do give you a chance to do a reaction command on them if you block/parry their attacks. It's just that near the endgame Sora's attacks do parry most attacks quite easily so maybe it looks like you can do it to them randomly as you flail you're keyblade around.
you DO get it as a reward for a parry. but i specifically tested if doing nothing will prompt the RC and sure enough it did.
You forgot to mention one of my favorite gameplay elements which is the punishment for using too many drive forms other than final known as Anti-form. It's such a good way to stop players from abusing drives by giving you a while albeit a strong form a very weak defense just because you decided to use valor one to many times. Of course final remedies this by resetting a secret counter in the code that determines when you go anti basically making it impossible to get in the endgame when you will probably be using that more anyway.
Gosh I know this is an old comment but I while I do think punishing Drive spam is good, I do think that Anti-Form isn't quite in an ideal space. Well actually it's not the form itself that's my issue, but the mechanics surrounding it. Anti-Points aren't really shown anywhere, but unlike Revenge Value it's a lot harder to get a feel on the system, especially with how certain fights have multipliers. On top of that the dangerously low defense on top of being unable to revert or RC is enough of a punishment that I don't really see why it has to take your whole drive gauge with it.
Currently replaying Persona 4 so hearing New Days at the beginning was amazing!
I feel mixed on RC but I think they were handled well in some of the super bosses.
Marluxia gives the player an option of whether they wish to play more aggressively or heal.
Demyx makes you use it but it is unlocked after casting blizzard magic, and it is up to the player to find the best place of jumbled up water to start that RC.
Then bosses like Axel and Larxene are heavily position based and reward skillful players who can dodge attacks to the point of being able to set up the RC and go through with it in the small window granted.
Xaldin also uses the RC like a resource and the player needs to use their stored jumps at effective times, not just mashing triangle forever
Not all RC in kh2 are bad, but a grand number really are.
I didn't realize that the Drive gauge goes up during recharge, holy shit what a gamechanger
heh, had the same reaction!
Loansome yeah it glows when in charge, I initially thought it only was affected by the Drive Boost ability but nope, it’s affected from the start of the game w/o that ability
being that it glows even without Drive Boost that's something I can't really say the same on
@A Chair I remember the game telling you that that's a thing but I could be remembering wrong. It's been awhile since I played kh2fm so I'll have to go back and check.
@Lax C. Pretty sure it does.
Good video! I love the ideas you gave about things that would improve the combat, but i wanted to talk abou the parts with the controlls. Its a great idea for people who are used to playing video games. However, if you start your journey on video games with KH2, its easy to get into with the controlls it has. You can play through the game just fine with a good amount of difficulty. If we had for like every other button a special function based on what kind of spell you want, that would be so much to understand and mix up, that alot of missinputs happen just because there is so much to do. Using reaction commands with triangle and circle like KH3D does it is a good idea, but i believe it wouldnt work as well as you would think, because you would need to press these two buttons in sync for that reaction, which sometimes could trigger only one of the two buttons, leading to frustration. Also, follow ups in those reactions would happen with the same two buttons as well. If you fail one input, you "failed" to react properly, which could get frustrating fast. But its great input, and again, a great video! :D
That update vlog I mention at the end of the video is gonna be delayed by a couple hours! Take care doods.
I really liked your video keep up the great work! :) Lets see some KH3 stuff too!
That menu overhaul sounds amazing. I hope there will be a kingdom hearts esque action game using that
There will be, I’ll get back to you in a few years. ;)
This was amazing and makes me want to try a Critical run. It's a crime you've only got around 1.5k subs.
thanks dude!
Wow, I never even noticed how much the Drive Gauge is boosted during MP recharge. Maybe I should have used magic more often lol
I honestly liked Nier Automata’s combat and I played it and beat it on the two hardest difficulties. From a strictly gameplay perspective ( because both KH2 and Nier Automata are some of the best games I’ve ever played and they both had a good story and soundtrack) KH2 made me realize how important it is to move around the battle field. KH1 and Birth by sleep felt very stiff to me while KH2 allowed me to float around the field and give me a myriad of options along the way. I felt that some of the summons weren’t helpful, but I still enjoyed chicken little and stitch. I also enjoyed how you could equip different skills along the way to help with the flow of battles, or use defensive skills like Second Chance or Once More to stay in the game.Long story short, when I play a real time RPG I always think of KH2 because it did more things right than wrong.
this man man basically asking for darksouls controls+ dragon ball xenoverse short cuts is the best part of the video. tho tbh that would be a goated control sceme.
KH1+2 both made me have a great time just sorting through abilities/load-outs. The way you can build Sora to be a different kind of fighter between every major encounter in both of these games is so satisfying- hell, a lot of the time it’s even necessary
Great video. Im glad someone else sees the flaws in the revenge value system. You clearly have actually played other action games unlike some of the bigger members of the community. Would love to hear your thoughts on KH3! It has so much potential even compared to 2 but falls short in more ways. Having launcher not be dodge button now is great tho.
see, i actually understand why RV is such an appealing system from a speedrunning perspective -- it's extremely consistent and predictable. but in a real-world practical combat situation, it just doesn't really make sense if you ask me.
Well I did play Bayonetta 1 and 2 and Devil May Cry 4 although I sucked really bad playing as Dante. Okay meybe I am not in the best position to judge DMC 4 but KH2 Final Mix completly blows Bayonetta 1 and 2 out of the Water when it comes to bosses. Jeanne and the Lumen are pretty cool but I had way more fun with most Organisation members.
The revenge value is why KH2 is such a speedrunnable game. It makes things predictable and learn able while making sure you can't combo forever. But it also turns the game into a puzzle and worse it encourages people to be less agressive. I found myself stopping combos on purpose because I felt that I was about to hit this revenge value. I'm sure everyone has been looping LW without even knowing it. Which is quite sad because he genuinely has some challenging moves post DM. I'd argue that speed running or even just winning a fight is more about tech and knowledge than raw skill. If you know the revenge value you can safely combo an enemy without even having to keep an eye out for any counter attacks then once you learn the very long tells it's quite easy. Having a damage cap is more intuitive but it's still the same thing. The biggest difference between KH2 and other revenge systems is that KH2 directly punishes you for attacking too much. Look at how other games do it. DMC has done two methods with having characters fall out and become invulnerable to reset the fight while also having characters break out but in this case your moves are much more versatile. I've gotten parried in Bayonetta several times only to activate bat within on their counter attack. All of them just tell you to slow down rather than outright stop. It still predictable though and I personally don't mind there being a degree of randomness like after a damage threshold there's a chance for them to break out and counter attack but only if it means that I can react to it. When moves are predictable, reactions are less important. Think about the times in KH2 where you were really tested on reaction and the answer will always be: Zexion's meteor, Roxas' and Luxord's stupid mini games, which people just cheesed and abused the pause button. KH2 should have more moments like that but not as a gimmick.
I agree with everything you said, but I still don't like the way other games do it more. It's all just personal preference though. I like how KH2 bosses feel a bit like a puzzle.
The puzzle is the rpg aspect of the game
Super solid video.
FANTASTIC VIDEO! YOU JUST GAINED A NEW SUBSCRIBER!
thank you!
I thought the way they handled drive spamming was genius. Eventually you're gonna go to the Hercules world that will restrict you from using it, teaching the player not to rely on it and instead using Sora's multiple other tools at his disposal. Not only that but if you use it too much later down the road you'll get the penalty of the anti form, a very dangerous form to use where you can't heal, can't revert back and must wait for the drive to empty out and once you're out, that drive gauge is 0.
They should've made situation commands work the same way as the command meter in Birth by Sleep, just have a meter over the command menu that fills with attacks, and drains with a lack of actions.
To make it clear what you're going to get, the meter could change color based on the ratio of different spells and attacks used to fill it, giving the player real time feedback on what pattern of attacks lead to what reward.
I'd also add command finishers from Birth by Sleep, which replace your attack command and are single use, so that filling the bar with physical attacks has a result, with different command finishers being equipable as abilities or maybe even unique to each keyblade.
As for keyblade transformations, put them on the focus gauge, having them simply show up makes them far too accessible. The focus gauge itself would have several levels of charge like the drive gauge in KH2, maxing out at 3 by the end of the game. Transformations consume one bar of focus, and drain from their own focus gauge limit when in use, but you can still put them in reserve with keyblade switching, making the limited amount of focus you have something to strategize around as shotlocks still pull from it as well. Focus orbs would also drop from enemies more regularly than they do in the Kingdom Hearts 3 we currently have, an attacking enemies would also fill it.
Post ideas on how to balance Links and Attraction Flow that would work within this reworked system in the comments.
That sucks. The combat system in kh2 is just perfect and shouldn't be changed.
Great video dude.
started off so strong, you really had me in the first half.
Why does Sora t pose when he does reflect in wisdom form
asking the right questions
EarthBoundNess / LilacMonarch Because he’s showing dominance by tanking there attack and hitting them bacc.
I was looking a comment like this
Final fantasy reference. In some of them, mages will T pose when casting a spell.
Persona 4 “New days”
At the beginning of the video!! ❤️❤️
The Rules of Nature edit is the single best KH meme I've ever seen, 10/10 work
Okay. This was a great video. You mentioned so many specifics and did a great job showing pros and cons. Ive never dug deep into kh2s combat but ive heard people throw around things about revenge values and stuff. I hate how inconsistent they are. It should merely be a meter that the player is privvy to, imo. Or something along those lines. Ive also heard people talk about how its good but never explain it. Some of this is amazing though. Ive hated how many games have cool forms but theyre so limited that its hard to rely on them, but the way kh2 actually lets you regain Drive FASTER while out of MP is amazing. And the way they made magic so useful and interesting compared to similar things in, say, the original God of War titles, where MP was usually hogged making the abilities less useful. Or you didnt have spells, but guns in games like dmc but they dont provide the same potency. Again. Great video. Thanks for opening my eyes. I think i might replay KH2 for the first time in a long time now.
Amazing video.
thanks dood!
Holy shit, what if there was an action rpg where you and friends could locally control different party members on split screens during the main campaign? 358/2 days came close, but that wasn’t really fleshed out.
I would have agreed with you on the control layout a few months ago, but I've trying the speedrun recently and I dont think my brain would be able to process all those shortcut menus as fast as I would need them. Scrolling through the menu is tough at first but once you get the hang of it it's not to bad. For me having all the face buttons and dpad function as 3 or 4 shortcut menus would just get complicated in the middle of a combo
On the subject of the command menu, there is a feature, if you press L2, you can cycle through the menu with the right stick, and confirm with R3. Ive been trying to impliment this into my playstyle, seeing as i use lock on alot, and dont bother with the camera stick.