Running flexfuel with an FM221 on my MSM. So convenient once it is set up. I try to educate car friends about the benefits of E85, most think it is an Eco fuel and don't understand the performance benefits.
I have a dedicated road race turbocharged NB. The engine sees up to 15psi and I have the necessary supporting mods for E85: forged internals, Haltech, DW300, ID1050 injectors, and Radium fuel rail. I'm considering adding a flex fuel sensor and going E85 because of the cooling benefits and the possibility of getting some more juice from the squeeze. Is there a point at which someone would need to convert to a returnless fuel system? BTW, great video! Very informative. Well done!
Sounds like you're ready for Flex Fuel then! We recommend it in your situation. Regarding return vs. returnless- for 15 PSI it doens't really matter, however if you do convert you will need to re-calibrate your fuel mapping since return systems are generally set up to reference manifold pressure. The issue with returnless / fixed pressure is that when the boost gets really high, your pressure differential between your MAP and your rail pressure starts to get too low and atomization of the fuel may be affected. Off the cuff we wouldn't want to see the pressure differential fall below 35-40 PSI. So then, round numbers, for builds doing 20+ PSI we'd recommend referencing. Just remember if your FPR is at the back of the car, the lag time in the MAP signal line will likely cause a little stumbling around tip-in.
@@FMJeremy Thanks for the detailed response. I have a reference line in place. I ran it through the middle of the car to keep the run as short as possible and I used a 3/16 line which is less restrictive than a standard 1/8 line. Seems to work fine 🙂
Great Video ! Love It. Question to @Flyin' Miata I have a 93 octane Tune on an ND2 from Versatune. Car is stock otherwise. We have E85 readily available where I am, and I will sometimes do a 50/50 mix of 93 and E85 with the assumption that this will give me a couple of points bump in effective Octane that the ECU can use to bump the timing a tad. Butt dyno says the ND2 has a little bit of a Pepp with that mix. I dont see that this has been discussed. Would love to see a discussion of the efficacy of this. Thanks for the great work you all do for the Miata community.
Good question! Our tuning experience is more based in the NA/NB platforms and we let the professionals who know the NC/ND software handle it these days. We're pretty leery about suggesting any blend ratio since we don't know what your injector duty cycle is at and you could go lean in open loop. I'd reach out to Versatune to see what they say and monitor things properly before blending too much E85.
We haven't looked into this yet but are thinking the stock injectors are going to be the limiting factor since you'll need to run about 50% more volume with E85. If you want to do this, I'd reach out to Injector Dynamics or Deatsch Werks to get their input.
I have a stock motor na8 with a Garrett 2560r and a stand alone ecu. my car is going for tune shortly and I’m hoping to get about 250hp and I have e85 pumps readily available in my area. My question is, do you think it’s worth going e85 or is detonation not really a concern at that power level.
Im interested in hearing more about why you ditched water/meth injection for your turbo cars. Do you have a specific list of hassles or cons that made water/meth not worth the effort and complexity?
1) Reliability and functionality issues with the systems we had available 2) Nozzle clogging issues 3) Portability / safety issues 4) Methanol availability issues 5) E85 just works better
I got the CARB legal turbo kit for my NB2. It's running super rough. That Voodo Box isn't good at all. It needs the Megasquirt but that's gonna defeat the carb portion.
Sorry to hear that! Please reach out to our customer support team directly. The voodoo box only affects fuel under boost, and should not cause any drivability issues. Our support team should be able to help you troubleshoot and find the issue so that you can hopefully get your car running smoothly asap! Call 9704645600 M-F 8-5 Mountain time, or email support@flyinmiata.com with URGENT in the subject line.
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Great stuff. Thanks!
Are the NCs (NC1, 2 and 3) factory prepared to use Ethanol fuel? I mean, fuel lines etc
Running flexfuel with an FM221 on my MSM. So convenient once it is set up. I try to educate car friends about the benefits of E85, most think it is an Eco fuel and don't understand the performance benefits.
It's definitely a good go-to for high-horsepower builds if you can get it!
What octane is cream corn?
100
I have a dedicated road race turbocharged NB. The engine sees up to 15psi and I have the necessary supporting mods for E85: forged internals, Haltech, DW300, ID1050 injectors, and Radium fuel rail. I'm considering adding a flex fuel sensor and going E85 because of the cooling benefits and the possibility of getting some more juice from the squeeze. Is there a point at which someone would need to convert to a returnless fuel system?
BTW, great video! Very informative. Well done!
Sounds like you're ready for Flex Fuel then! We recommend it in your situation. Regarding return vs. returnless- for 15 PSI it doens't really matter, however if you do convert you will need to re-calibrate your fuel mapping since return systems are generally set up to reference manifold pressure.
The issue with returnless / fixed pressure is that when the boost gets really high, your pressure differential between your MAP and your rail pressure starts to get too low and atomization of the fuel may be affected. Off the cuff we wouldn't want to see the pressure differential fall below 35-40 PSI. So then, round numbers, for builds doing 20+ PSI we'd recommend referencing. Just remember if your FPR is at the back of the car, the lag time in the MAP signal line will likely cause a little stumbling around tip-in.
@@FMJeremy Thanks for the detailed response. I have a reference line in place. I ran it through the middle of the car to keep the run as short as possible and I used a 3/16 line which is less restrictive than a standard 1/8 line. Seems to work fine 🙂
Great Video ! Love It. Question to @Flyin' Miata
I have a 93 octane Tune on an ND2 from Versatune. Car is stock otherwise. We have E85 readily available where I am, and I will sometimes do a 50/50 mix of 93 and E85 with the assumption that this will give me a couple of points bump in effective Octane that the ECU can use to bump the timing a tad. Butt dyno says the ND2 has a little bit of a Pepp with that mix.
I dont see that this has been discussed. Would love to see a discussion of the efficacy of this. Thanks for the great work you all do for the Miata community.
Good question! Our tuning experience is more based in the NA/NB platforms and we let the professionals who know the NC/ND software handle it these days. We're pretty leery about suggesting any blend ratio since we don't know what your injector duty cycle is at and you could go lean in open loop. I'd reach out to Versatune to see what they say and monitor things properly before blending too much E85.
I made 20hp more on my jrsc m45 on E85
E85 is magic with the right tune!
Are ND1s safe to run E85 after the tune? Any long term possible issues?
We haven't looked into this yet but are thinking the stock injectors are going to be the limiting factor since you'll need to run about 50% more volume with E85. If you want to do this, I'd reach out to Injector Dynamics or Deatsch Werks to get their input.
I have a stock motor na8 with a Garrett 2560r and a stand alone ecu. my car is going for tune shortly and I’m hoping to get about 250hp and I have e85 pumps readily available in my area. My question is, do you think it’s worth going e85 or is detonation not really a concern at that power level.
And my fuel system is over kill so I know it can handle it.
Im interested in hearing more about why you ditched water/meth injection for your turbo cars. Do you have a specific list of hassles or cons that made water/meth not worth the effort and complexity?
1) Reliability and functionality issues with the systems we had available
2) Nozzle clogging issues
3) Portability / safety issues
4) Methanol availability issues
5) E85 just works better
I got the CARB legal turbo kit for my NB2. It's running super rough. That Voodo Box isn't good at all.
It needs the Megasquirt but that's gonna defeat the carb portion.
Sorry to hear that! Please reach out to our customer support team directly. The voodoo box only affects fuel under boost, and should not cause any drivability issues. Our support team should be able to help you troubleshoot and find the issue so that you can hopefully get your car running smoothly asap! Call 9704645600 M-F 8-5 Mountain time, or email support@flyinmiata.com with URGENT in the subject line.
So sweet corn is e15 right?
We're talking specifically E85.
Corn politically untouchable money hto farmers. Corn is a waste of money