Press-fit Bottom Brackets Are BETTER Than Threaded
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2024
- Press-fit bottom brackets are better than threaded ones. That may horrify you, but allow Simon Bromley, BikeRadar’s Senior Technical Writer, to make the case for press-fit systems.
After a decade or so of press-fit bottom brackets being the dominant system on high-end road bikes, there has - to almost universal acclaim - been a notable return to threaded bottom brackets in the last few years.
Specialized ditched its press-fit OSBB 61 bottom bracket standard in 2020 in favour of a traditional BSA threaded bottom bracket on the Tarmac SL7. Even Cannondale recently specced a BSA threaded bottom bracket on its 2022 Synapse endurance road bike.
It’s hard to find many who’ll stick their neck out for press-fit these days.
Perhaps controversially, we think that despite the often reported difficulties of press-fit bottom bracket systems, we should pause for thought before we consign them to Room 101.
What do you think? Are press- fit bottom brackets an elegant engineering solution? Or are you threaded through and through? Let us know in the comments!
Simon's article on BikeRadar.com
→ www.bikeradar.com/features/op...
Raoul Luescher’s video on Press-fit Bottom Brackets:
→ • Press Fit is Better!
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#PressFit #BottomBracketStandards #BikeRadar - กีฬา
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Press-fit or threaded? 👇
Threaded because I'm used to maintaining them and all of my press fit BBs end up creaking
T.H.R.E.A.D.E.D
Press Fit! Every bearing on a bike is already Press Fit!
If I owned a bike repair push fit
Of course PF is a better concept for carbon. But EVERY manufacturer literally spent a decade doing the lazy cash grab and making poor quality bb's- all of them: Specialized, Cannondale, Cervelo, etc, etc. ALL of them.
Blame the manufacturers not the consumers. Thank the internet for exposing the truth and forcing manufacturers to do something.
I'm still laughing at Hambini's comment about Cannondale switching to threaded BB's being "an admission that they can't manufacture a round hole".
Spot on
Love him or hate him Hambini backs up his arguments with hard data.
Unlike this video where it anecdotal contrarian drivel.
hahaha that's funny what you said that's why I was never a fan all these big manufacture company uses press fit . But now I do like Trek Emonda frames .
Agreed but Hambini does make his own press fit so if the problem is the frame and not the BB then why buy a press fit?
@@Necromonger69because they last basically forever. I have a press fit bmx ridden it hard for 4 years bike has been tossed around and i literally have not even touched the bearings for any kind of service and literally zero creaking it’s dead silent..
It’s only better if the manufacturer is capable of manufacturing them to adequate tolerances. The vast majority of manufacturers have proved time and time again that they aren’t.
Every year we get the promise that this will be the year . That started around 2012 if I remember right .
@@NCrdwlf so we literally being bs around for decade
We hate squeaky noises on our $$ bikes
Amen Randy, Amen
@@AnTeallach2011 really? you name your account with that?...
As a bike mechanic I prefer to work on thread bbs. Far less hassle
Really? I have never once had a problem working with press fit... but have had a number of bikes come in with seized threaded BB's. I would say neither is really much hassle, but if I had to pick one to fit, service or replace, it would be a press fit.
As a bike mechanic, I very much prefer threaded bb as well. No fussy roadies coming back with creaky threaded bb's and if they do it just needs one more bit of tightening
@@Dirtjam9 agreed, if the pressfit frame is well made is is so easy to just knock the cups out and replace!
The only problems i've had installing pressfit bottom brackets is on frames that had poor tolerances/misalignment. With a good bearing removal tool and press the installation is a breeze. Most any difficulty is the result of the frame.
Lol not true at all press fit bearings are easy asf to install
The real problem is lack of QC in frame sets . I see huge inconsistencies within a brand and model . One bike will be fine , the next one , same make and model a damn disaster that ends up going back ( after a prolonged fight with the rep ) " our bikes are all in spec "
Yeah, this happened with Cervelo, the white paper specs for the BB tolerance was outside the tolerance range for the bearing manufacturers, so you're stuck in this loop of blame for the BB failure.
Press Fit has never been the issue.
Press fit is VERY reliable and used in vehicle engines and hubs etc...
The issue is the manufacturers that can't make a round hole.
They also can't make round holes that are parallel
pretty ironic that many chinese manufacturers can produce a frame quality that has way better tolerance than many "reputable" brands
Car wheel hubs only have one bearing and don't see the twisting and side loading a BB does. Car engines don't have roller bearings. Both of your examples are non applicable.
they can but they chose not to. it is too expensive and they dont respect you
@@jcphotos1256 they are all made in china, expect for some odd ones
It has been proven by many engineers on multiple occasions that Mass Produced bicycle frames do not maintain the tolerances needed for a secure and trouble free Press Fit BB solution. Customs, one offs, sure. Not mass production. So, unless you're planning to change the industry in some way to make them increase QC on BB tolerances...
THREADED WINS EVERY TIME!
how about pressfit on Alloy frames sir?
just want to know.
since carbon is Handmade..
@@silver_c1oud all press fit is trash unless it the QA where the frame is produced is meticulous. Otherwise, trash. Threaded every time.
I watched the parktool video for how to take apart a pressfit bottom bracket, got half way through, and immediately thought that pressfit was introduced to keep bike mechanics in a job.
You need an additional employee to stock and organize the 50,000 varieties of stupid pressfit bb as well
Threaded is more user friendly if you remove the BB often. PF requires special tools and I’m not sure if the frame can tolerate frequent install/removal of the BB.
Threads don’t particularly like being undone, a pressfit will technically last longer provided the frame material is harder than the bottom bracket material (Shimano use a delrin plastic) therefore basically last forever.
@@georgefarrowgreen01 may I ask you??
is creaking common in Pressfit alloy Frames?
i know that pressfit needs high tolerance or something.. seeing that carbon is hand made therefore prone to error right?
how about Alloy?
Press fit may “technically” last longer, but the reality is it absolutely won’t if you regularly service your BB because almost all press fit BB’s are installed with Loctite due to the shitty poor manufacturing tolerances of the frame makers that use them in their frames. Go knock on that Loctited BB cup enough to knock it out of the frame’s BB shell and I’ll assure you that frame and BB shell will suffer way more damage over time from being frequently rapped on like that than the frequent unscrewing of a greased threaded BB ever will. The problem with pressfit in the bike world is that while it is a superior BB design technically, in the real world bike manufacturers have never consistently been willing to adopt the quality control needed to fab proper tolerance PF BB’s to turn that theoretical advantage into reality. This guy speaking on this vid is literally a paid propagandist for the sweatshop bike manufacturers that advertise on his joke of a cycling publication.
Pressfit on a properly QC controlled frame is indeed better....but we have seen time and time again that QC and their ability to create a truly round opening is far beyond many (if not most) manufacturers abilities.
Truly round does not exist.
Round within tolerance does exist. You pay for the tolerance.
But frame builders don't.
@@AndrewBlucher which is why the frames that eat the weight penalty for an aluminum insert to fit into tend to have better results
Interesting, I've always had issues with press fit BB's and surprisingly never had an issue with threaded. Pressfit BB are not worth the headaches IMO. I will never own a pressfit bike again. I ride because I enjoy riding no pressfit BB is worth the time, or weight saving and hassle of the constant hassle. Cheers
Its one of those things where some people really appreciate what it you can do with the geometry with with them but from an ownership standpoint they are simply worse
It's only a hassle because manufacturers QC sucks make a round hole it's that simple.
PF was a good idea on paper. Execution was (and is) the problem. My current bike had, among other requirements, to have a threaded bb.
After riding a Canyon Aeroad with a pressfit bottom bracket I will never switch to a bike with a pressfit again.
The bike was creaking so much I just stoped mid ride and had a friend pick me up, if you can hear the creaking through your music or when you're enjoying a beautiful scenery ride then it's just not worth it.
It eventually puts you off to want to even ride the bike.
SO THREADED IT IS!
It's not the system it's the Canyon
U should try using a thread-together bottom bracket, which solved the creaking on my bike
I had a PF on my Trek Procaliber; creaked every other month. My Ibis Ripley has Chris King threaded BB; its been 5 years without service and still running strong
Probably another shit batch of tolerances from the bike industry that charges an arm and a leg
Sorry your Trek had shit tolerances. Let’s blame the standard that wasn’t implemented correctly.
That's because it was installed wrong noob.... Pressfit user for a decade and never had an issue.
@@bernitaldown9136 Installed wrong. lol. How are people fucking up installation of press fit? There’s only so many ways to press a bottom bracket into a frame.
@Ryon Beachner Most mechanics don't use the right tools or aren't trained or familiar with them.
Plus, many riders never bring their bike in for yearly or monthly check ups.
I never had an issue with Pressfit, and I owned three pressfit bikes.
I always clean my bike and check them weekly.
Pressfit are more effective, efficient, and better suited for carbon frames.
Great video and topic. I've been using both types for many years and have had zero issues with either one. Oddly enough since I'm thinking about having a custom built frame for my next bike, I decided that I'll go with a threaded BB. My reason is that I just find them easier to work on.
Thanx for the video, this topic interests me a lot recently. For the last decade all my bikes had PF. I changed them by myself at home as needed when time came. Those were aluminium frames. Problems came last year as I had to change BB PF on my Procaliber 2017 - carbon frame. New PF was creaking terribly, I replaced them with other ones, same issue. I probably even permanently damaged my frame in the process of replacing them so many times. Then I tried threadfit PF from BBB and it is perfect. No creaking or any issues since then and they roll fantastic. Unless the carbon frames do not have a metal sleeve in the BB shell as mentioned, it will always be difficult to get the PF bearings perfectly aligned. On my gravel bike (Marin Headlands) I have threaded BB, external bracket cups. I wanted to change cranks from shimano to SRAM, no problem, just unscrewed the hollowtec II and screwed in the GXP cups. I thought great, I could never do that with PF so easily. Threaded BB is more user friendly and much easier for maintenance. Now after watching this video, if my gravel bike had PF instead of threaded external cups and due to that it could have more rear tire clearance, I would take that!
The meme reference in the thumbnail is to die for, kudos to y’all
Not only am I old school but old enough to remember when my top of the line Dura Ace crankset was on a square tapered bottom bracket. I never had issues with it or the steel frame it was in. The silence was golden. I will never have a creaking carbon frame and press fit bottom bracket. The press fit bearing used in the automotive and motorcycle industry are pressed into highly machined metal not crappy quality control carbon frames.
Absolutely 👍
Does a flying car sound good? Yes, but come talk to me when you can consistently manufacture them.
The motorsport/aviation industry create proper pressfit systems all of the time, just shoddy workmanship by factories that make bikes
I am quite shocked that despite my considerable expertise in the subject and basically market dominance. I didn't get referenced once. I wonder why that is.
You know why... haha
Is the pen working tho??
Market dominance? In what respect?
As soon as you turn 6 they probably will.
U wot M8?
I have 2 press fit and 3 threaded bikes. I haven’t had problems with either system. Even though I do some work on my bikes, I haven’t had to do anything on BBs, so I haven’t had to cope with the problems associated with PF. Still, I think Simon brings up a good point.
I’ve had one bike with a creaky BB: a 2005 CAAD 5 with a BB and a Dura Ace 7800 crankset. The creak disappeared after a year of riding and a handful of re-installs.
My other 10 Cannondales all had Hollowgram cranks (besides one that used an adapter for a threaded Super Record UT crankset) and not a single creak out of any one of them.
"when done right" it appears that's exactly what's impossible in Uber modern bicycle industry.
Most of us aren’t looking for the lightest, stiffest BB possible…we are looking for something that is easy to service, will last a long time, be straightforward to find a replacement for in 10, 15, 20 years, and has the potential to be moved from bike to bike. All that means threaded BSA is the way to go!
I have an Endurace (2020) with pressfit and it's fine. I did have creaking issues which I thought was coming from the BB but it turned out to be the quick release axils.
Even Cannondale, which developed the Press-Fit BB Shell system, recently dropped it. They confessed to the limitations of it. Threaded was the answer.
Thanks for this video. Once again, I learned a lot and understood connections. So I stay with Pressfit with whom I have never had a trial lesson :-)
There are 2 realities to bear in mind here. Firstly, you can’t mass produce bike frames with the precise tolerances needed. This is just a fact proven by the last decade of proof. Secondly, comparing other areas of the bike that have pressed in bearings has no argument, as none of them take the loads that a bottom bracket does. So that being the case you need to design something that can take those loads. So where in theory press fit is technically better, the reality is very different
My main bike is a 2019 Canyon Endurace carbon, and I've always been a bit nervous about the press fit BB. However, at 17,000 miles with no issues and you comments about Canyon manufacturing I'm feeling pretty good about the BB.
I nipped this worry in the bud early on with my Endurace, and popped in a Wheels-Manufacturing thread-fit BB. Token makes a viable option as well. Glad to hear you've had great success with the stock press-fit BB though.
TL;DR: Press-fit is technically superior/the only correct way to go, but threaded is the way more robust and easy to work with option until frame manufacturers get their sh*t together.
An engineers perspective: a press-fit is the only correct way to install a high-load bearing like a bottom bracket. But a press-fit needs to be an actual press-fit with tightly controlled tolerances for roundness, cocentricity and surface roughness on both the bearing outer as well as the bearing seat in the frame. Bike frame manufacturers have been failing at all of those things consistently since the "introduction" of press-fit. To bikes, because the technique has been around forever, essentially, and working pretty well in other industries.
Aside from that, as a user, I'd add the caveat that a bearing either needs to last (close to) the life of a bike (aka needs to be a high-quality, fully sealed bearing in a proper bearing seat as described above) or be easily servicable/replacable by a user regardless of where they are. Since most manufacturers can't provide the former, the latter is the only viable option until manufacturers get their sh*t together.
And this is why most riders will only accept a threaded bottom bracket at this point. It's far from technical perfection, but it has multiple layers of frame tolerance compensation, anyone with a big enough wrench or even just a towel/piece of cloth can install or pull them and they are pretty hassle (read: creak) free in use, if installed correctly. Even in a very badly controlled frame.
And when talking about "installed correctly" the only thing you need to take care of are clean threads, some grease in those threads and the basic brains not to keep turning when there's obvious, high resistance due to cross-threading. The start of the threads will compensate for slight misalignments, decent technique (turn the "screw"/BB cup in the opposite direction first until the threads settle into each other before screwing it in) will compensate for the rest. Unlike press-fit BBs where you need expensive, specialised tools to make sure the bearings go in absolutely straight to prevent the already bad bearing seats getting completely destroyed, ruining the whole frame.
And as for the drawbacks of threaded BBs: as someone commented below, T47 adresses the most relevant concerns mentioned in the video.
Hmm - you can undo a bsa bearing cup torqued to 40 nm with a "towel/piece of cloth"?
@@Dr.Schlitz most likely not if there is no vice-ish implement available. You should be able to find one in pretty much every town though. At which point the cloth is just a protection layer while you can use your entire frame as leverage.
Another option, if your piece of cloth is long enough, you can wrap it around the cup once or twice to get enough grip and then use the remaining cloth as a much larger/longer grip for both of your hands. Fix the frame to something (or have someone keep it in place) and start pulling with your bodyweight. Low leverage (essentially the radius of the bearing cup), but high force (parts of your body weight + whatever your legs, torso, arms and hands can produce). You'd be surprised how much torque you can generate that way. Definitely won't help you with a ceased cup though. Refer back to the point about proper installation to prevent those.
But I have also never needed to tighten a bb to 40 Nm for it to sit firmly and not loosen, even after thousands of kilometres on rough gravel.
Tbh, I have seen only one person ever using a torque wrench to tighten a bb outside of professional sports, some tutorials and the first one I installed. Most people (including regular bike shops) don't even have the type of tool that you might attach a torque wrench to, most just have the simple, usually stamped steel wrenches with some sort of additional grip and the BB adapter you get for relatively cheap. And for good reason. They are simple, cheap, packable and absolutely fulfill their job.
This article hits the right spot! Well done.
The press fit on my old specialized has always been a creak machine. Threaded on the Santa Cruz has been a dream.
Great video! Worth enough to subscribe!
Threaded. Creaky BBs rob the joy out of cycling
What's your sprint power big guy? How long can you put out 300W?
I saw this thread at the bottom and pressed it to see what all the bracket was about.
Headset is vertical and BB is horizontal, there's huge different system with the load apply. On headset the load is in line with the axis while on BB is crossing, the spindle is like leveraging to pop up the bb housing. Threaded is better because it locks the bearing housing with technology and not with just some snug logic.
Great take on this, thanks. As a tech optimist with designer background I really wished I could support press fit. But fact is I’ve had nothing but troubles with it for years and years on a series of pretty high spec bikes. It’s simply demands higher precision manufacturing than the suppliers can meet in the practical world. Have stopped counting the bearings I’ve replaced after only 1/2 seasons of riding. Finally, an oversized axle can be achieved w a threaded interface.. Just my 2 cents. 😎
Get a BBinfinite , thank me later
@@askcyc Thanks, excellent tip. Definitely considering. Not too badly priced either.
Bought my first pressfit frameset (PF30) a few months ago- did a lot of research on best practices to install the cups in the frame,Campy ultra-torque cranks so it uses a bearing cup. so far no noises,end play or other weirdness.
I gotta say I was left than thrilled about owning something other than an Italian thread BB but so far it’s not bad
Congrats, totally agree.
That’s why I recommend Token Ninja bottom bracket, which have a combination of alloy and fiber on the BB body. The fiber will deformed and correct the fails of tolerance of the frame.
I don't buy the weight argument - the Specialized S-Works Athos frame has a threaded BB and is one of the lightest frames out there. I had problem with press-fit BBs and fixed it by getting a BB shell that threads together in the middle. And yes, more QC could probably adjust some of the issues. But that could then increase prices for frames because the yield is lower.
Is there a conversion possible to go from threaded bb to press fit because the threads on the frame are mangled beyond repair?
Hambini fans ASSEMBLE!!!
I have 5K miles on my 2020 Yeti which has a SRAM DUB pressfit. Its been great so far but I do have a replacement waiting in the toolbox for when the day comes
So wait, you’re saying these frames selling for $3,000-$7,000 don’t have tight tolerances? But I could have sworn these manufacturers promised us these are super duper exotic frames made with tolerance levels on the same level as F1 cars and the space shuttle.
Having to replace BB bearings recently due to contamination, even though I cleaned my bike often, a pressfit would've be a hassle, removing and installing constantly to assure a good clean and dry.
I love the assurance of a good QC manufacturer with a pressfit, I'll stick with the threaded BB.
Timely post. I’m awaiting my new trek emonda with threaded bb. My previous 2 trek madones had issues with the frame swelling around my bb. Trek was so aware of this issue they developed a repair kit to install a carbon sleeve inside the swollen frame. I’m not sad to see the press-fit bb go away.
Never had an issue with pressfit, but i always use(d) aluminium and steel frames, where there is just a sleeve welded into the frame which will always be perfectly round and up to size, so no problems there. as others pointed out, the problem lies not with the press fit bottom bracket, but with carbon frames that are cheaply made and quality control skipped.
Enjoyed your balanced and thoughtful breakdown. I'm not a big fan of pressfit, BUT I will now specify that it's the execution of pressfit I don't like
I’m a cycle mechanic and do not get issues with threaded bottom brackets! Where as press fit can give issues. So threaded get my thumbs up 👍🏻
I love Simon s tell-it-how-it-is/challenge the mainstream view videos. This is also what PeakTorque has been saying for years. Personally I find PF more intimidating to work on, but have to do it so rarely I can always just book it into the shop.
The real problem is maintenance: While fresh from factory all may work fine (if the frame is perfect), a couple of years and half dozen of BB replacements later this fit will wear out and creaking will start. I noticed Shimano's PF BB's last not as long as the old Dura Ace BSA ones, accelerating the issue. Fair manufacturers like Canyon may replace frames under warranty in such case (Thanks!). More robust PF BB's like the one from Chris King - that are told to last a lifetime - are another solution (unfortunately no longer available)....
Spesh gas “gone back” to threaded with the sl7 in 2020? My 2018 sl5 is bsa.. I don’t think this is anything new? (My 2018 diverge is also bsa)
Almost I am agree with you but it's the same for the carbon and aluminum frames ? Cheers from Greece....
I totally agree with you. It's is only a matter of getting the production right. It is a shame that a big brand like Specialized are going back threaded BB.
I ride a Cannondale synapse 2008 I series model, with bb30, but was the entry level with 105 so had the threaded adapter mounted. No creak, and I still have the original bearings working perfectly after more than 70.000 km. My friend bought a giant tcr in 2017 and had to live with constant creaks since then. No way to fix it.
Only threaded for me. After my PF BB on my 14' Epic dilated the frame and I got the new one with the threaded BB, I thank for this moment.
Will my BSA eventually wear out due to alignment problems? Maybe. Until then, will it creak with every pedal stroke like many press-fit? Probably not. And that is a BIG difference!
I just bought myself a new road bike a couple of weeks ago. The finalists were a Trek Domane AL5 (threaded) and a Giant Defy Advanced 2 (press-fit). (Yes, not really at the same price-point, so not entirely fair, I give you that). I was attracted to the Trek because it was AL and threaded, I was attracted to the Giant because it was CF and a couple of pounds lighter. I chose the Giant because I was seduced by the CF and the lighter weight. It also *seemed* to feel better. I'm hoping I don't regret the PF BB and the "fragility" of CF. Time will tell. One thing I will say, I knocked a lot of bikes out of consideration because they didn't come with a lifetime warranty on the frame. Not going to pay between $2K and $3K and get a bike with a 3 year frame warranty. Oh well, here's to no creaking.
Thanks for the excellent rundown on Press-fit versus threaded.
Hello.. any updates on the bb? Any issue on the frame (seat post area)?. Also wanted a revolt advance 1
Can i ask how its going with pressfit BB after 2 years?
Of the 5 "modern" bikes I've owned 2 had threaded and 3 had press fit bottom brackets. The only creaking I've had was with a threaded bottom bracket. Very anecdotal but I think it's the execution that matters more than the standard.
"The only creaking I've had was with a threaded bottom bracket. "
And which cranks were you running with your creaking threaded BB?
Depends on the frame. It has to be quality inspected much more rigorously. Needs a round and straight bottom bracket compartment area.
Turns out that your creaky bottom bracket is just your Shimano crank falling apart.
At the end of last summer, I sent my Canyon Aeroad back, as they were not able to make a BB properly. Customer service was not helpful either. whoever buys a canyon will most likely experience similar problems due to poor production.
Now I have a CAAD 13 with BB30. No creaks so far.
Never had a problem on Open Mold frames with pressfit, but on name brands it can be crap. On the other hand, I have had treaded inserts in carbon frames come loose so it´s all about good carbon layup and precision.
I find it unbelievable that molding the journal in the frame is how they acheive their final size. On one hand I’m really surprised they can get the tolerance they do, but on the other I’m not at all surprised they have as many rejects as they do.
As a machinist I can see a solution in molding a machinable, high strength thermoplastic sleeve into the frame that has an undersize bore. After the molding is done the final size can be achieved on a mill with what would surely be a more reliable sizing of the hole.
I ride MTB's all year around in Scotland, so all my bearing take a beating. I have a mixture of Press and Threaded BB's on my bike, and they both take the exact same amount of servicing to keep running perfectly. The truth is that the vast majority bike manufacturers are all about profit, and all take the total piss with the majority of their lack of quality engineering, especially when you compare a £6k road or mtb bike to a say a new Honda CBR500R motor bike ( also around £6k), you start to really see how much precise engineering, quality materials and development has gone into every aspect of the motor bike..
That's because it's Japanese engineering !
the clicking bearings in my Scott that I have no tools to remove them with says otherwise
Even if manufacturers do get it right you still have to bash the hell out of an expensive carbon frame to remove it with possible damage to the frame!
Surely there's a better way?
I had a brand new Specialized Allez Sprint (BB30) that required a new bottom bracket in less than a year (3k miles).
That’s kind of hilarious. An Aluminum bike shouldn’t have the creaking and wear issues with the Bottom Bracket as the shell should be machined, reamed, faced or otherwise after welding if the heat from welding is warping the BB out of square. There’s no excuse for that lack of forethought from a company of that size.
Then to have the carbon bike be correct, who would have thought.
Source; My company makes bottom bracket shells for bicycle manufacturers.
"External bottom bracket cups limit wheel and tyre clearance at the rear wheel"
They just don't though, because of chain line and Q-factor the rings have to come to the same position regardless. Besides is this really an issue on road bikes? My Gravel grinder has a standard 68mm BSA BB and non-boost hubs its currently running 48c tyres, its just not an issue. And MTB have a wider standard of their own.
I'm not so sure it is JUST bad frame tolerances though, BSA Holloetech II/GXP type BBs are press fit bearings too and I have never had much issue with the cheapo' BSA BBs I've been throwing in my commuter for 20 years. Are you telling me some faceless Chinese factory knocking out those BBs that can retail in the UK for sub £10 are somehow working to tighter tolerances and suppling better bearings? It just doesn't make any sense, there has to be something else inherent in the system that makes them prone to failure which is exacerbated by the poor QC. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the PF frames out there that are fine now start to develop issues down the line as the forces acting on the BB, and wear to the bearing sleeve/BB shell from removal and re fitting start to take their toll.
I believe alot of press fit issues come from incorrect servicing. i.e. mis alignment, banging bearings in or out. causing damage
the cartridge bottom bracket that shimano made for decades is by far the best solution. Why?: The fundamental difference is, that with this system the bikes bb shell is just a mounting point opposed to being the bearing seat that defines how well the system works. The cartridge is produced on a precision lathe center to super tight tolerances that can not be achieved in frame building. As the cartridge incorporates all functional surfaces, there can be no missalignment of the bearings. That´s why it will work now matter how accurate the frames bb shell is. Some of you who once installed one of these might remember that they also had some pretty heavy preload when taken out of the package, i.e. they were not spinning freely. The idea is, that you have to break them in for a couple of km, then they wil start spinning freely and super smooth for thousands of km without any problems. And yes, they were between 200-300g and cost around 20 dollars.
Having a degree in Caron fiber engineering, it’s a huge ask to ask for much better quality control than we got right now. We still don’t have charts for things like thermal expansion and exothermic reactions within the fibers yet to fully understand the curing process. I believe it will get more exact over time, but carbon fiber will never be exact
Then why can f1 teams make such extensive use of carbon fiber without causing problems in their vehicles? I understand they aren't putting bearings into c.f. parts, but I can't imagine they allow for very large tolerance anyway.
@7:29,no, you install the sleeve in the bike, then ream/bore/machine/etc. to spec size in place. That way if the insert deforms, no big deal, though again, the fact that they are concered about that happening says they really can't hold any sort of tolerance on the carbon side for sure. They could machine custom sleeves per bike to the required OD for that bike as well, but that's expensive and not really practical at scale.
It is quite embarrassing to see how many manufacturers can't produce PF bottom brackets with the propper tolerances even in their high end frames.....
terrible logic here....."I'm going to completely ignore the past 10 years of severe real world production and implementation issues involving this standard and give it the win because it should be better....in theory." these companies should just hire Hambini as a consultant and get it sorted out once and for all
It's what poor journalists do to get noticed. Ignore the facts and spout nonsense.
In theory I have scored the winning goal in the Cup Final but my reality begs to differ.
"Freded"
I agree with Raoul on many things, but not this. There are two issues. Firstly, getting the CF built to the right tolerance, and installing the bearings.
After 40 years of CF frames, clearly the first cannot be done. The second issue is as important: many BB installations are done in bike shops and by home mechanics. Say as many oughts and shoulds as you like, but you cannot guarantee the quality of that part either.
The result is clear for all to see; this video is just trolling us.
I get a steady stream of bikes in my workshop with noisy pressfit bottom brackets. In many cases I know the mechanic who assembled them, so I know that it was quality work. But they still creak, groan, and clunk.
It's a crap system, designed to be easy to make and hence save money. That bears repeating.
I believe that threated is the better model because the bearing is move further toward the end of the axil which lead more stability in performing or pedaling specifically.
Typically with a pressfit design the bottom bracket shell is wider allowing better stiffness
Oh yea, about creaking, sometimes the source r not from the BB.
Unfortunately most people think it is, and everyone talk about it, and about instal or changing one.. like, do we the owner do it every week? why remove the bb at the first place?..
well the cons spread and does makes sense for most people, so many won't but bike with PF anymore except one who understand it.. brands noticed so they HAPPILY move back to threaded as they also have a problem with manufacturing a good enough bike for that system..
"the majority" in marketing strategy of mass produce bike is always safest and easier income..
do you have a link for your cat shirt?
oh, and Threaded
If you are facing issues with your pressfit you can measure the BB to the exact Dimentions and see if it is miss aligned or too tight , I have been fixing bikes like this since 2016 and I still see frames from all manufacturers that are our of Spec .. BMC , Scott , Giant , Canyon , you name it ... unless it is measured properly you absolutely can not know what is causing this issue .. add to it the Stupid Alloy spindles that came with the obsolete BB30 that is still adopted by so many ..
My perfect Setup would allways be a BBinfinite module with a 24mm Steel spindle.
I have a 2020 specialized venge with thousands of miles on the original BB. No creeks for me
Ask Hambini what he thinks about press fit quality control in frame building brands. Some are a free ticket to creak land.
Two issues exist for press fit; 1) poor manufacturing tolerances and QC for many manufacturers that cause problems (have a look at Hambini’s videos for how bad it can be - and on some very expensive frames 2) unless you have the right tools then you can’t safely home service your BB. From an engineering perspective properly done PF is superior - but until QC and ease of maintaining the system is addressed then “threaded” BB’s will be easier to live with.
Doesn't it all come down to the manufacturing tolerances of the shell not the actual bottom bracket bearing system? And therein the rub against press fit? In other words it's easier to screw up the manufacturing of a press fit frame shell than it is to screw up a threaded frame shell?
So if the largest makers haven’t been able to get it right consistently after a decade why believe they ever will?
No way press-fit BB's are better than threaded!!! I have had 3 bikes in my life with press-fit and all 3 had nightmarish issues with the bottom brackets (for someone who requires a quiet bike that doesn't sound like it's falling apart underneath you). I have had 13 bikes with threaded bottom brackets and not one of them had problems with the bottom bracket. I made up my mind the last time that I would not consider any bike with a press-fit BB. It's a hard argument to say that it's almost every bike frame and not the BB that is the culprit.
Pressfit is more efficient. Never had an issue with pressfit and thats because I had a great mechanic and good frame.
and you have small watts? great.
@@YurexAlessandro Small watts.... You even talk like a Fred. 😆🤣😂
Strava lol.... Mo' Hipster talk. 😆🤣😂
@@bernitaldown9136 seems someone can’t even counter my comments.
So are you a kid? Or a noob?
@Yuri Alessandro You didn't really read my statements correctly lol.... Are you defending treaded BB or pressfit BB? 😆🤣
Press Fit bottom brackets are definitely better at creaks.
Threaded I'll replace at home on Sunday night in half an hour. Without risking my frame even!
Chris King has stopped making press fits... I had one and it was cup & cone and user serviceable. Last week I've poured chain oil into the current WTB BB, as CPR while I look for a user serviceable replacement.
This is my last press fit bike.
Press fit exists partly because mechanics sometimes fuck up when they install threaded bottom brackets. Cross threading is a very common issue than most people think.
So I assume you’ll be calling out companies that can’t make a hole round and to specification.
I see your points but threaded BBs are just way more user-friendly than press-fit ones. Sure they are more effective and what not but most people don't race.
As a home mechanic, I prefer a threaded BB. But you're right, press fit is technologically superior.
The key is whether competent workers are actually present. Hambini and others have highlighted that bike manufacturing tolerances for mass-produced frames are inconsistent and downright disgraceful considering how much consumers are paying.
How about T47, i think that is elegant solution for BB :)
Engineering means also to find a stable solution at certain cost. Seems like there are not many possibilities to fix that issue in production.
As the video states, PF is better in theory (and in practice in limited cases), but threaded continues to be better in reality… especially for the end user. My new crux fits 700x47c tires with a BSA threaded bottom bracket… not sure how much more tire clearance I really need to add over that by going to a bound to creak PF system.
The issue isn't that a press fit BB is bad, it's that the manufacturing tolerances of bike manufacturers are laughable at best. The return to threaded is the bike industry saying they are not going to spend the money needed to improve their manufacturing, and so they are returning to the much more reliable threaded insert. The one main benefit to threaded is the ability to remove the BB with no real chance of damaging the bearings in the process.