everyone talks about billy's father and how he beat and humiliated him constantly and of course, it is true that his father was an asshole but let's not forget that billy's mother also influenced billy to be a loose bullet, she abandoned him and left him to mercy from her abusive father, billy always waited for her and she never came back for him...never. In his mind he remembers her as the best, she was EVERYTHING to him and she left without looking back and without caring about her own son.
Completely agreed! If a miracle happens and Billy actually comes back, I'd really love if they delved more deeply into his relationship with his mom, those few moments of flashbacks weren't nearly enough.
His abandonment and subsequent abuse also explains why he approaches sex and relationships the way he does. The build up in S3 also gives the scene where the Mindflayer possessed him a particularly gruesome twist. 17-18 year old who was abandoned and abused by parents goes to meet up with a married parent of 3 in a motel and then his bodily autonomy is taken away for another exert their will over....
I’ve just gotta say, the sauna scene was really good. The actor perfectly portrayed how an 18 year old kid would react to the situation Billy was in and it also gave us a look at Billy’s human side and how he didn’t want to harm those people.
It really upsets me Billy as a whole character was completely wasted. I was very interested to know more about his relationship with his father.. But then I realized Stranger Things isn’t about abusive relationship problems with your parents… So why did they even give this awareness to his character?? They never went back to it and they killed him off…… his emotional backstory should’ve came from Billy himself. NOT THROUGH L’s Eye….
i don’t think he was wasted, i think his story arc is tragic in a good way, we see in his final moments his potential for good only for it to be snuffed out, it’s harsh but also very raw and real, and it lays the foundations for max’s amazing development this season it definitely is a shame we won’t get more of him though, dacre montgomery is awesome
I definitely agree with you. Also the only reason I started watching Stranger Things because I saw a clip of Billy's father abusing him and I was curious to learn more about the abusive family relationship in their family but it was never touched upon again 🙄!
He's got a tragic arc. Particularly a tragic villain arc, when he goes to turn from antagonist to hero, he dies when he has the chance to do good. His redemption is sacrifice when he had only minor rebellions throughout the show. The show always has parallel themes. A mundane evil (S1 Brenner) and a paranormal evil (The Demogorgon). Billy has never been a main antagonist, when he was part of the mundane evil, he was his father's puppet. His father was the hidden main mundane villain who molds him how he likes. Then in season two he's a puppet of the Mindflayer, the main supernatural evil, who also molds him into his weapon.
At first I didn't like Billy but after learning about his abusive father my mind changed completely. I grew up with an abusive parent and I remember the anger and hurt I felt as a teenager because you sit there and wonder "why me? Why am I not good enough to this person that's supposed to love me?" Now Billy is one of my favorite characters because I can empathize with him.
Damaged people damage others…my ambivalence towards Billy began with his narcissistic posturing before the mirror: I also felt empathy for someone who is so clearly broken…this ‘push/pull dynamic is so totally involving (& unfortunately, familiar!) A brilliantly written character, with Dacre Montgomery giving it all he’s got…we can’t not feel disturbed, & we also feel that it’s hopeless…Billy needs ‘good’ people (mother/nurse emotional types) - but life has convinced him that their only worth to him, are as targets for abuse… Thank you so much for this edit, & your interpretation - a train of thought worth following: Saved & subbed! 🙏🏻💔🙏🏽
No, it shouldn’t Like I get it he was also abused and hurt and he’s also human and it’s not his fault. But at the end of the day he HURT people. Apart that he was racist, he also abused other people and his SISTER!!! I don’t think Billie deserves to be liked by anyone cause he was supposed to be a villain not a hero. An abused is still an abused no matter what their past story is, people makes mistakes but traumatizing other people it’s not IT and it’s disgusting. There’s literally NO excuse, they don’t get to do that to other people just because they’re being abused too that’s just nasty. I will never understand why people likes his character, his character is literally not to be liked. He’s the VILLAIN!!!??? Why are people obsessed with dangerous bad people (especially characters) they’re not someone to be romanized or sexualized .-.
Billy deserve to redemption Arc just as much as Steve. He could have been so great as a protector of the kids because of that instinct to protect Max from Neil.
this is exactly the video i was looking for. Since Billy showed i knew he was gonna be interesting cause i was not expecting him to treat Max so badly has he did. I knew he had a "reason" for all that douche attitude. The way he always tried to compete with Steve and take the spot as the number showed how lonely he was, we always saw him with diff characters over the course of the series. The way he acted so tough and narcissist was a proving point that all he had was himself, he was a complete loner that was searching for the adorance, the love he missed when he was a kid. His father complete destroyed and molded his personality, he despised everything coming from him. That's why he despised Max and foster-mother, they were a symbol of fear from the person he hated the most, and he was slowly becoming like him. That's why i think Billy had a tragic death. It was in his last moments, free from the mind flayer he realize that after all, he was never alone, Max had always be with him even with everything he did to her. Seing his little sister, the symbol of despise from his father, crying over him shattered him. He was so blind by rage and trauma that after Eleven remembered him the love he never got back, he used his last strenght to protect what he had missed for years, his own memories of love. His last sentence was the strongest and meaningfull phrase he said in the whole series. All he could say to Max was "I'm Sorry", its tragic how all he could say to her was that. His death for sure was full of regret for how he treated Max, the only person he realized that truly loved and cared about him.
Yeah I agree with pretty much everything! In a dream world he'll come back next season, as I think that ending his entire character arc on one single moment of freedom and rebellion against abuse just isn't enough, but even if that doesn't happen here's hoping that "Dear Billy" does his character some kind of justice.
i feel like people get confused between 'morally good character', 'likeable character' and 'well-executed character'. some people can't split those concepts up in their head, so when a character like Billy comes up, wherein he's arguably not morally good but still well-executed, intriguing and charismatic, they feel like he's a bad character because they feel morally obligated to dislike him as a person, and that does a disservice to the character he actually is & the part he plays
4:28 I found that interesting, how people automatically just pulled the race card on how Billy behaved in that situation. The way I saw it, the first time Billy saw Max and Lucas together was them having an argument after school and Max storming off. He even said something like, “even though I don’t want to I have to look out for you now”. I personally thought that’s the main reason he was trying to keep her away from him.
Yeah, I think there is a valid subtextual reading of Billy's behavior potentially being racist, but I also think it can be read as not racist, and both interpretations have merit. For me, I tried to imagine what the scene would have looked like if for instance Dustin was in Lucas' place, and I don't see Billy's reaction being any different, which is why I tend to interpret that scene as Billy thinking "my dad will beat my ass if anything bad happens to Max and she's upset ergo I'll scare her away from Lucas" and not much more than that.
yh i also think it would be odd for billy not to go after lucas himself if it was racially motivated, it’s less him having a problem with lucas generally, more him have a problem that lucas presumably hurt max in some way, he’s so closed off that he thinks max should defend herself like he does
this may be unpopular as an opinion but billy's arc climax felt so rushed. we already knew his father was abusive and throwing the flashbacks in at the very last second felt like a cheat. I wish he had a bit more of a struggle towards the end to me his ending is the most unsatisfying though I enjoyed his character. they had already touched on his issued with his dad in season 2 and I wish they would have taken a different path to re explore those issues in a more interesting way than giving millie bobby brown all of the important beats of his arc.
it would have hit much harder if billy maybe saved Lucas in place of eleven since he hated Lucas throughout season 2 and maybe he could have grown to realize Lucas was important to max and it could have been like a passing of the torch on who was going to take care of max after he was gone and a gesture showing he loved her all along.
No I completely agree, they really should have delved into it more deeply and it did feel like an easy way of wrapping up his story so quickly that it felt unearned.
The "he's good-looking" explanation is annoying, because until the end of season 2, I HATED him, and consequently/subjectively found him really ugly, and hated his intense feminine/masculine mixed vibe. Now, with season 2 & 3 finished, I think he's a good looking guy, since I like & find his character compelling. I am SO pissed they killed him off with the "sacrifice" excuse. I wanted a painful, slow, difficult but REWARDING redemption, that addressed all the trauma he had (from Neil & being f*cking possessed) AND gave (mainly to Max).
Yeah I'm obviously in the same boat about his redemption. Given that Covid screwed with shooting season 4 of Stranger Things I haven't entirely written off the possibility of a significant return for Billy, but it looks somewhat unlikely that he'll get the character arc resolution he deserves, and I'm really not a fan of killing someone in order to redeem them.
Feminine/masculine? Wtf is that suppose to mean. It's called being charming. Not everything needs a new stupid made up term.....but yeah he killed the role, great actor.
Tbh it's true everyone loves him because he was good looking, at first everyone hated him because of his personality then they got a reason behind that personality they started to love him
One thing about Billy’s character that I rarely see mentioned is how he parallels Will in interesting ways, both named William, both have bigoted homophobic abusive fathers, the first two people to be possessed by the mindflayer, and possibly both are gay, yet they are very different characters. I also don’t think it’s the last minute sacrifice ever redeems a character but shows them taking the first step on that arc, and them dying is a tragedy cause we will never see the rest of their arc.
Agreed, I think he's very relatable in a way that some of the other characters are not, because most of the other Stranger Things characters experience a lot of traumatizing things but never have any inconvenient or unappealing reactions to it, which does not feel remotely realistic.
There’s a theory that Billy comes back. Now here me out. When Billy first got possessed by the mind flayer, there were several clones of Billy. So what if the real Billy is in the upside down? And you may be wondering why Billy was saying that the mind flayer made him do it in the sauna, well maybe the actual Billy and the clones have connected minds, so Billy is still somewhat in control. And to top that off, the number on Billy’s license plate are, 2,3, and 5. Meaning he was in season 2 and 3 so maybe he’ll be in 5?
Season 3 is actually my favorite 😅 The party is together just being kids and enjoying the summer, and we got Robin! I also feel like S3 gave Billy’s character arc more depth, showing his mom and his childhood in Cali.
personal reasons for liking billy im a rock metal fan and he seems to be into that music considering his hair length he's a chad making him someone i want to emulate as i see him as someone i could become the reason why people billy is the same way people like jordan belfort of TWOWS, luca changretta from peaky blinders or literally defending pablo escobar after watching narcos
You know, bully’s can be sympathetic too. Just like any tragic antagonist, Billy is a prime example of how people can cause misery to others, because deep down they’re suffering, not because of jealousy of others but major problems at home in a form of a abusive relationship with a parent, It may not excuse them for their ruthless behavior but at least he has a understanding reason of why he acted the way he did. There is so much pain and abuse that one person who was known for having a pure hearted soul can take until they snap and take their frustrations with their problems out on other people, it was especially problematic for Billy since all the stuff that happened to him was since he was a kid.
he was prolly my favorite villian in the series prolly one of the most complex characters and him redeeming himself made me like him more i wish he survived so he could help max and her friends with vecna and possibly died a glorious death there
I think everyone hated billy I didn’t i thought he was cool and billy died so quick I liked billy even more when he sacrificed himself to save eleven or max proof he is an real hero.
He isn't racist based on what he said about Lucas. He says it because he thinks he's being a good brother. He sees someone else abusing max where in his eyes it should be only him doing it. Then we find out he was abused growing up so his reactions and actions make even more sense
@@KamiStyleBA I agree with you he just got his opinions and wants to keep his sister safe and maybe not get her involved in race mixin, I wouldnt either
@@wesleyboy636 nope. Inaccurate. He literally just seen from his point of view Lucas being abusive and in his own way thinks he's helping her and being a good brother while also wanting to be the one abusing her. Ur just a bit racist lol. Literally doesn't mention Lucas race
i think billy and max are the single best written characters in the show, i highly adore both of them. both of them easily won my heart the more they where shown. i want nothing more than a spinoff where they run off together, or maxs mom divorced neil and is able to take billy from neil in court and they all just rebuild their lives together. max finally starts to have the older brother she deseeves, and billy gets to have a mother when his birth one abandoned him. it wont be perfect, billy is just a teen with a lifetime of trauma to heal, but its be the start of a chance at a normal life tgat they all deserve
At first I thought Billy was ok until I saw him with his interaction with Lucas makes him a racist in season 2 but season 3 they tried 180 on his character which it is confusing for me. I feel like Billy could have potential but that part is very weak especially his sacrifice
Wait. What? People consider this a season with nothing going on? It's complex and layered and the best of all of them so far. I've never come across anyone who doesn't love it so I'm not sure where that analysis is coming from. Everyone grows profoundly throughout AND the plot is amazing.
6:32 i disagree. Trauma is absolutely acknowledged in some characters in an unappealing way. Hopper is a prime example. In s2 and 3, his outbursts and behavior can be off-putting and morally grey at times. Heck, he was questionable in s1 when introduced as a washed up uncaring cop. More controversially, i say Mike is like this too. His actions are sometimes extremely off-putting to the audience to the point of people hating him. But the way he acts doesn't come from nowhere; it comes from trauma. From deep insecurities and fears. And the way it is portrayed is NOT sanitized or digestible, as is shown by fan's differing opinions on him.
Okay so I have a new take on Billy..................I dont think he was racist or even a bad character for the matter..........In fact I would say he was more of a SILENT hero who was just very vocal and actionable with his thoughts. He's called racist because of his initial dislike of Caleb but he ALSO didn't like anyone else in Caleb's world. So I think it was a matter of culture rather than race...........Also there may be MORE to Billy than what the writers cared to admit because the way he was inserted into ST was way too monumental for such a potentially short role so I guess they had to quickly scrap him before people started asking questions. So when it comes to Billy's arc, I would say his time on the show stirs up questions for someone who basically overshadowed the entire show.
It's so interesting to see how many people are saying Billy was not racist and how passionate people are in defending him from this accusation. Racism is something that is learnt and it would make sense that a guy like him would be racist because of his f*cked up childhood and the fact that he could have gotten mixed up with the wrong crowd who taught him this hatred. We all have racial biases and Billy like everyone else probably had his own and they were probably made worse by the kind of people he surrounded himself with. I mean this is like how in today's world young boys can easily fall into fascist ideologies and bigoted political views by simply clicking on the wrong "how can I speak to girls" video that would lead them down the redpill/manosphere rabbithole. The show took an easy way out in my opinion, they could have given Billy a real redemption arc by keeping him alive and mending the relationship he had with his sister, seeing him grow as a person and realise that he was a horrible person who bullied people and he was racist towards Lucas and him actually putting in the work to earn forgiveness from the people he hurt. That for me, would have made him a more relatable and maybe likeable character in my eyes.
i agree - i think his views on race are mainly just 'i don't care enough to make my own opinion or to think about it too hard so i'll just go along with whatever's easiest' which would be Neil's biases plus 1980s' casual racism. i don't like it even though i like billy in general, but there's a whole bunch i don't like about his behaviour anyway. i don't want to sweep it under the rug bcs it makes him more palatable.
personally, i’ve never liked Billy. ever since his intro in s2 and racism towards Lucas, i’ve always hated him. his sacrifice in s3 only worked for me because of how it affected Max in s4. i’m not saying he deserved his fate, but it’s quite hard for me to care for a character so blatantly atrocious. him sharing the screen with absolute legends like Steve and Nancy didn’t help his case much either….
He was never racist but more like outspoken/vocal............He only gets that label because Lucas is the only black character in sight he lashed out at..............
It baffles me. Billy's a racist child abusing bully but because the actors good looking everybody loves him. Just goes to show that it doesn't actually matter what you do it only matters how you look. Gotta love today's backwards arse society 🤦♂️
No, he’s a product of his environment, do you think people are born racist and abusive? If you think it’s something people are born with there is no point in you watching this video, but if you believe in people learning from what they are brought up with then his character makes a ton of sense. He’s one of my favorite characters and i wish he had a proper redemption, but this isn’t that type of show 🤷
@@PineApple-rw3qv I like how you completely failed to grasp my point. Yes I understand being a product of your environment which is not what is happening with Billy at all and is just you reaching. My problem isn't with the character it's people's reaction to the character and you're literally proving my point. Says a lot about you though if your favourite character is that guy who's only positive is in his sacrifice at the end of season 3. It's all about how he looks. I'd love to see you use the same logic to defend other people that are abusive and racist since like with Billy they also have life experience to influence them into being that way 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@extraplain2412 okay I just wanna slide in here to bring up the point that obviously we know that being attractive doesn’t excuse one’s actions. An abusive person isn’t gonna get away with abuse scot free just because they’re hot, but it may affect how others see that persons actions. That being said- I personally don’t find the character attractive (that wig was not doing him aaaany favors bro) but I was still able to sympathize with him. Honestly, if your only argument for people liking nuanced characters that you don’t like is “oh you just find them hot so of course you’re gonna try and excuse their actions” as you ignore clear points within the same piece of media that truly goes out of its way to explain why this character acts the way he does, how can you expect to be taken seriously? What do you mean there was nothing in his environment that made him act the way he was? Did you miss that whole scene where he had to deal with being abused by his dad because he lost track of his sister? It’s so clear that Billy is just repeating the cycle of abuse that his father put him in, and yes that makes him shitty as a person, but damn- lets just ignore all the nuance surrounding him as a character because people find him hot. 😑 And on the note of trying to excuse real life abusers- obviously abuse isn’t excusable in real life because of how much it can damage the victim, because of the actual consequences that can occur. Though it seems you’ve ignored that he’s not only an abuser- but also a victim (a victim of circumstances, one might say). Another thing about real life abusers- sometimes they are given the opportunity to grow and change into better people. Billy’s character is like 17 or so when we first meet him- so who’s to say that with enough support (aka: good writing) he wouldn’t have been able to turn around and become a better person? Though of course we’ll never know, since the writers decided that they were done with his story.As a victim of abuse myself, just thought I’d throw in my two cents.
@@taniaodige3369 I've been a victim of abuse and because my abusers were liked by others nobody cared, so yeah part of what I said is projecting my own experiences and frustrations that this is not just a one off thing that happened to me but something that is actually common in the real world and media. I get Billy had an abusive father but that just adds layers to the characters rather than being an excuse for his actions. We can understand the hate in Billy but that doesn't mean it's justified or that he should be glorified the way he is and its sad but yes the main reason the character is glorified is because he's attractive that's just a plain fact. He's a good character as in entertaining to watch in the same way someone like Joffrey or Ramsay Bolton are but there's a big difference between enjoying the character in the context of the show and just straight up simping over someone that acts the way he does. I don't get what the possibility of him having support and becoming a better person has to do with anything. That's like saying you should like me because I could cure cancer one day. I'm sorry but I don't want my abusers to find redemption and happiness and for the world to ignore their crimes and my trauma and if you were abused I don't see why you would want that.
he's not damn you're all just seeing the scene wrong. race has nothing to do with this, he says max and Lucas arguing and that's understandable reaction
@@Sandra-ei9zl after reading more comments i understand how his behaviours towards Lucas likely aren’t specifically about race, but about an over protective attitude. but i don’t think it should be swept under the rug how he talked about the “type of people in this world you should stay away from” and how he literally threw the kid to the wall even after Max referred to him as a friend? i just don’t see a pretty much adult treating a kid that way in the era the show takes place in without a backup source of anger. it wouldnt surprise me if Billy had a racial bias about Lucas due to his targeted anger the moment he saw him. i agree that this evidence and overal feeling i’m getting from him doesn’t make him explicitly a racist.
everyone talks about billy's father and how he beat and humiliated him constantly and of course, it is true that his father was an asshole but let's not forget that billy's mother also influenced billy to be a loose bullet, she abandoned him and left him to mercy from her abusive father, billy always waited for her and she never came back for him...never.
In his mind he remembers her as the best, she was EVERYTHING to him and she left without looking back and without caring about her own son.
Completely agreed! If a miracle happens and Billy actually comes back, I'd really love if they delved more deeply into his relationship with his mom, those few moments of flashbacks weren't nearly enough.
His abandonment and subsequent abuse also explains why he approaches sex and relationships the way he does. The build up in S3 also gives the scene where the Mindflayer possessed him a particularly gruesome twist. 17-18 year old who was abandoned and abused by parents goes to meet up with a married parent of 3 in a motel and then his bodily autonomy is taken away for another exert their will over....
I’ve just gotta say, the sauna scene was really good. The actor perfectly portrayed how an 18 year old kid would react to the situation Billy was in and it also gave us a look at Billy’s human side and how he didn’t want to harm those people.
It really upsets me Billy as a whole character was completely wasted. I was very interested to know more about his relationship with his father.. But then I realized Stranger Things isn’t about abusive relationship problems with your parents… So why did they even give this awareness to his character?? They never went back to it and they killed him off…… his emotional backstory should’ve came from Billy himself. NOT THROUGH L’s Eye….
i don’t think he was wasted, i think his story arc is tragic in a good way, we see in his final moments his potential for good only for it to be snuffed out, it’s harsh but also very raw and real, and it lays the foundations for max’s amazing development this season
it definitely is a shame we won’t get more of him though, dacre montgomery is awesome
I definitely agree with you. Also the only reason I started watching Stranger Things because I saw a clip of Billy's father abusing him and I was curious to learn more about the abusive family relationship in their family but it was never touched upon again 🙄!
Agreed
He's got a tragic arc. Particularly a tragic villain arc, when he goes to turn from antagonist to hero, he dies when he has the chance to do good. His redemption is sacrifice when he had only minor rebellions throughout the show. The show always has parallel themes. A mundane evil (S1 Brenner) and a paranormal evil (The Demogorgon). Billy has never been a main antagonist, when he was part of the mundane evil, he was his father's puppet. His father was the hidden main mundane villain who molds him how he likes. Then in season two he's a puppet of the Mindflayer, the main supernatural evil, who also molds him into his weapon.
can't agree more, I hope they can bring billy back in season 5
At first I didn't like Billy but after learning about his abusive father my mind changed completely. I grew up with an abusive parent and I remember the anger and hurt I felt as a teenager because you sit there and wonder "why me? Why am I not good enough to this person that's supposed to love me?" Now Billy is one of my favorite characters because I can empathize with him.
same
Damaged people damage others…my ambivalence towards Billy began with his narcissistic posturing before the mirror: I also felt empathy
for someone who is so clearly broken…this ‘push/pull dynamic is so totally involving (& unfortunately, familiar!)
A brilliantly written character, with Dacre Montgomery giving it all he’s got…we can’t not feel disturbed, & we also feel that it’s hopeless…Billy needs ‘good’ people (mother/nurse emotional types) - but life has convinced him that their only worth to him, are as targets for abuse…
Thank you so much for this edit, & your interpretation - a train of thought worth following: Saved & subbed!
🙏🏻💔🙏🏽
No, it shouldn’t
Like I get it he was also abused and hurt and he’s also human and it’s not his fault. But at the end of the day he HURT people. Apart that he was racist, he also abused other people and his SISTER!!! I don’t think Billie deserves to be liked by anyone cause he was supposed to be a villain not a hero.
An abused is still an abused no matter what their past story is, people makes mistakes but traumatizing other people it’s not IT and it’s disgusting. There’s literally NO excuse, they don’t get to do that to other people just because they’re being abused too that’s just nasty.
I will never understand why people likes his character, his character is literally not to be liked. He’s the VILLAIN!!!??? Why are people obsessed with dangerous bad people (especially characters) they’re not someone to be romanized or sexualized .-.
Billy deserve to redemption Arc just as much as Steve. He could have been so great as a protector of the kids because of that instinct to protect Max from Neil.
this is exactly the video i was looking for. Since Billy showed i knew he was gonna be interesting cause i was not expecting him to treat Max so badly has he did. I knew he had a "reason" for all that douche attitude. The way he always tried to compete with Steve and take the spot as the number showed how lonely he was, we always saw him with diff characters over the course of the series. The way he acted so tough and narcissist was a proving point that all he had was himself, he was a complete loner that was searching for the adorance, the love he missed when he was a kid.
His father complete destroyed and molded his personality, he despised everything coming from him. That's why he despised Max and foster-mother, they were a symbol of fear from the person he hated the most, and he was slowly becoming like him.
That's why i think Billy had a tragic death. It was in his last moments, free from the mind flayer he realize that after all, he was never alone, Max had always be with him even with everything he did to her. Seing his little sister, the symbol of despise from his father, crying over him shattered him. He was so blind by rage and trauma that after Eleven remembered him the love he never got back, he used his last strenght to protect what he had missed for years, his own memories of love.
His last sentence was the strongest and meaningfull phrase he said in the whole series. All he could say to Max was "I'm Sorry", its tragic how all he could say to her was that. His death for sure was full of regret for how he treated Max, the only person he realized that truly loved and cared about him.
Great video !
Yeah I agree with pretty much everything! In a dream world he'll come back next season, as I think that ending his entire character arc on one single moment of freedom and rebellion against abuse just isn't enough, but even if that doesn't happen here's hoping that "Dear Billy" does his character some kind of justice.
Boom.
Honestly if Darce didn’t play as Billy and made changes to the character nobody would’ve really liked Billy as much
Honestly, this is pretty damn true 🤷🏾♀️ and this is coming from someone who believed in Billy's redemption
Billy Hargrove is amazing because Dacre Montgomery is amazing as well undeniably the most beautiful man alive ♥️
i feel like people get confused between 'morally good character', 'likeable character' and 'well-executed character'. some people can't split those concepts up in their head, so when a character like Billy comes up, wherein he's arguably not morally good but still well-executed, intriguing and charismatic, they feel like he's a bad character because they feel morally obligated to dislike him as a person, and that does a disservice to the character he actually is & the part he plays
4:28 I found that interesting, how people automatically just pulled the race card on how Billy behaved in that situation. The way I saw it, the first time Billy saw Max and Lucas together was them having an argument after school and Max storming off. He even said something like, “even though I don’t want to I have to look out for you now”. I personally thought that’s the main reason he was trying to keep her away from him.
Yeah, I think there is a valid subtextual reading of Billy's behavior potentially being racist, but I also think it can be read as not racist, and both interpretations have merit. For me, I tried to imagine what the scene would have looked like if for instance Dustin was in Lucas' place, and I don't see Billy's reaction being any different, which is why I tend to interpret that scene as Billy thinking "my dad will beat my ass if anything bad happens to Max and she's upset ergo I'll scare her away from Lucas" and not much more than that.
yh i also think it would be odd for billy not to go after lucas himself if it was racially motivated, it’s less him having a problem with lucas generally, more him have a problem that lucas presumably hurt max in some way, he’s so closed off that he thinks max should defend herself like he does
He was racist weirdo
@@doodoo5594 wrong
@@jaden_eho603 wrong
this may be unpopular as an opinion but billy's arc climax felt so rushed. we already knew his father was abusive and throwing the flashbacks in at the very last second felt like a cheat. I wish he had a bit more of a struggle towards the end to me his ending is the most unsatisfying though I enjoyed his character. they had already touched on his issued with his dad in season 2 and I wish they would have taken a different path to re explore those issues in a more interesting way than giving millie bobby brown all of the important beats of his arc.
it would have hit much harder if billy maybe saved Lucas in place of eleven since he hated Lucas throughout season 2 and maybe he could have grown to realize Lucas was important to max and it could have been like a passing of the torch on who was going to take care of max after he was gone and a gesture showing he loved her all along.
No I completely agree, they really should have delved into it more deeply and it did feel like an easy way of wrapping up his story so quickly that it felt unearned.
The "he's good-looking" explanation is annoying, because until the end of season 2, I HATED him, and consequently/subjectively found him really ugly, and hated his intense feminine/masculine mixed vibe. Now, with season 2 & 3 finished, I think he's a good looking guy, since I like & find his character compelling. I am SO pissed they killed him off with the "sacrifice" excuse. I wanted a painful, slow, difficult but REWARDING redemption, that addressed all the trauma he had (from Neil & being f*cking possessed) AND gave (mainly to Max).
Yeah I'm obviously in the same boat about his redemption. Given that Covid screwed with shooting season 4 of Stranger Things I haven't entirely written off the possibility of a significant return for Billy, but it looks somewhat unlikely that he'll get the character arc resolution he deserves, and I'm really not a fan of killing someone in order to redeem them.
I think a lot of people found him attractive because of his extreme feminine/ masculine vibe bc it’s not what we’re usually used to, so it sticks out.
Feminine/masculine? Wtf is that suppose to mean. It's called being charming. Not everything needs a new stupid made up term.....but yeah he killed the role, great actor.
Tbh it's true everyone loves him because he was good looking, at first everyone hated him because of his personality then they got a reason behind that personality they started to love him
His looks played a major role in this popularity for sure
Totally i agree,yes,Billy Hargrove,was the best character on stranger things,and im glad it came out on s4
One thing about Billy’s character that I rarely see mentioned is how he parallels Will in interesting ways, both named William, both have bigoted homophobic abusive fathers, the first two people to be possessed by the mindflayer, and possibly both are gay, yet they are very different characters.
I also don’t think it’s the last minute sacrifice ever redeems a character but shows them taking the first step on that arc, and them dying is a tragedy cause we will never see the rest of their arc.
After season 3, I really started defending Billy. Seeing his trauma and what he went through really reminded me of, well, myself.
Agreed, I think he's very relatable in a way that some of the other characters are not, because most of the other Stranger Things characters experience a lot of traumatizing things but never have any inconvenient or unappealing reactions to it, which does not feel remotely realistic.
It was the same for me because he reminds me of myself as a teen.
As I can personally attest to... All of us in love with Billy should never be trusted with control of their own tinder accounts.
😆😂
Billy in those little basketball shorts but they say "Capable of Great and Terrible Things" on the back.
There’s a theory that Billy comes back. Now here me out. When Billy first got possessed by the mind flayer, there were several clones of Billy. So what if the real Billy is in the upside down? And you may be wondering why Billy was saying that the mind flayer made him do it in the sauna, well maybe the actual Billy and the clones have connected minds, so Billy is still somewhat in control. And to top that off, the number on Billy’s license plate are, 2,3, and 5. Meaning he was in season 2 and 3 so maybe he’ll be in 5?
I love this theory!
1. It's intresting
2. I would love to see Billy (My favorite character) to come back.
Season 3 is actually my favorite 😅 The party is together just being kids and enjoying the summer, and we got Robin! I also feel like S3 gave Billy’s character arc more depth, showing his mom and his childhood in Cali.
personal reasons for liking billy
im a rock metal fan and he seems to be into that music considering his hair length
he's a chad making him someone i want to emulate as i see him as someone i could become
the reason why people billy is the same way people like jordan belfort of TWOWS, luca changretta from peaky blinders or literally defending pablo escobar after watching narcos
i think eddie is a better role model than billy
@@stephlarr555 oh yeah for sure
I’m gonna miss this show when it finally ends.
You know, bully’s can be sympathetic too. Just like any tragic antagonist, Billy is a prime example of how people can cause misery to others, because deep down they’re suffering, not because of jealousy of others but major problems at home in a form of a abusive relationship with a parent, It may not excuse them for their ruthless behavior but at least he has a understanding reason of why he acted the way he did. There is so much pain and abuse that one person who was known for having a pure hearted soul can take until they snap and take their frustrations with their problems out on other people, it was especially problematic for Billy since all the stuff that happened to him was since he was a kid.
thank you for this MARVELOUS study on the beautiful garbage boy!
Hahaha yes, I am never giving up on the return of the rat king until Stranger Things is over.
he was prolly my favorite villian in the series prolly one of the most complex characters and him redeeming himself made me like him more i wish he survived so he could help max and her friends with vecna and possibly died a glorious death there
I think everyone hated billy I didn’t i thought he was cool and billy died so quick I liked billy even more when he sacrificed himself to save eleven or max proof he is an real hero.
He isn't racist based on what he said about Lucas. He says it because he thinks he's being a good brother. He sees someone else abusing max where in his eyes it should be only him doing it. Then we find out he was abused growing up so his reactions and actions make even more sense
He’s racist
@@jaden_eho603 wrong but it's however u want to see it anyways.
@@KamiStyleBA I agree with you he just got his opinions and wants to keep his sister safe and maybe not get her involved in race mixin, I wouldnt either
@@wesleyboy636 nope. Inaccurate. He literally just seen from his point of view Lucas being abusive and in his own way thinks he's helping her and being a good brother while also wanting to be the one abusing her. Ur just a bit racist lol. Literally doesn't mention Lucas race
@@KamiStyleBA Nah man im pretty much accurate and im not racist I just try to keep things goin straight yknow
i think billy and max are the single best written characters in the show, i highly adore both of them. both of them easily won my heart the more they where shown. i want nothing more than a spinoff where they run off together, or maxs mom divorced neil and is able to take billy from neil in court and they all just rebuild their lives together. max finally starts to have the older brother she deseeves, and billy gets to have a mother when his birth one abandoned him. it wont be perfect, billy is just a teen with a lifetime of trauma to heal, but its be the start of a chance at a normal life tgat they all deserve
I just like Billy. tend to like characters ALOT of people hate.
Same. I like Negan from TWD.
And “Here’s Negan” is a good reason why.
He's hot and I like his taste in music.
Oh yeah, and all the stuff you mentioned
At first I thought Billy was ok until I saw him with his interaction with Lucas makes him a racist in season 2 but season 3 they tried 180 on his character which it is confusing for me. I feel like Billy could have potential but that part is very weak especially his sacrifice
When I first saw Billy, the first thing I thought was Willie Aames.
Best character in stranger things not a cliche good guy character who lives on sympathy like Eddie, steve and Johnathan.
Wait. What? People consider this a season with nothing going on? It's complex and layered and the best of all of them so far. I've never come across anyone who doesn't love it so I'm not sure where that analysis is coming from. Everyone grows profoundly throughout AND the plot is amazing.
If you're talking about season 4, I agree, it's great! However I posted this video in November 2021, so any "last season" I referred to was season 3.
6:32 i disagree. Trauma is absolutely acknowledged in some characters in an unappealing way. Hopper is a prime example. In s2 and 3, his outbursts and behavior can be off-putting and morally grey at times. Heck, he was questionable in s1 when introduced as a washed up uncaring cop.
More controversially, i say Mike is like this too. His actions are sometimes extremely off-putting to the audience to the point of people hating him. But the way he acts doesn't come from nowhere; it comes from trauma. From deep insecurities and fears. And the way it is portrayed is NOT sanitized or digestible, as is shown by fan's differing opinions on him.
Why is he relatable,,,,
Okay so I have a new take on Billy..................I dont think he was racist or even a bad character for the matter..........In fact I would say he was more of a SILENT hero who was just very vocal and actionable with his thoughts. He's called racist because of his initial dislike of Caleb but he ALSO didn't like anyone else in Caleb's world. So I think it was a matter of culture rather than race...........Also there may be MORE to Billy than what the writers cared to admit because the way he was inserted into ST was way too monumental for such a potentially short role so I guess they had to quickly scrap him before people started asking questions. So when it comes to Billy's arc, I would say his time on the show stirs up questions for someone who basically overshadowed the entire show.
Yo Billy is my RATSON & this character study is so good 😊
LOL thank you! And yes, I obviously love the rat king as well.
It's so interesting to see how many people are saying Billy was not racist and how passionate people are in defending him from this accusation. Racism is something that is learnt and it would make sense that a guy like him would be racist because of his f*cked up childhood and the fact that he could have gotten mixed up with the wrong crowd who taught him this hatred. We all have racial biases and Billy like everyone else probably had his own and they were probably made worse by the kind of people he surrounded himself with. I mean this is like how in today's world young boys can easily fall into fascist ideologies and bigoted political views by simply clicking on the wrong "how can I speak to girls" video that would lead them down the redpill/manosphere rabbithole. The show took an easy way out in my opinion, they could have given Billy a real redemption arc by keeping him alive and mending the relationship he had with his sister, seeing him grow as a person and realise that he was a horrible person who bullied people and he was racist towards Lucas and him actually putting in the work to earn forgiveness from the people he hurt. That for me, would have made him a more relatable and maybe likeable character in my eyes.
i agree - i think his views on race are mainly just 'i don't care enough to make my own opinion or to think about it too hard so i'll just go along with whatever's easiest' which would be Neil's biases plus 1980s' casual racism.
i don't like it even though i like billy in general, but there's a whole bunch i don't like about his behaviour anyway. i don't want to sweep it under the rug bcs it makes him more palatable.
personally, i’ve never liked Billy. ever since his intro in s2 and racism towards Lucas, i’ve always hated him. his sacrifice in s3 only worked for me because of how it affected Max in s4. i’m not saying he deserved his fate, but it’s quite hard for me to care for a character so blatantly atrocious. him sharing the screen with absolute legends like Steve and Nancy didn’t help his case much either….
He was never racist but more like outspoken/vocal............He only gets that label because Lucas is the only black character in sight he lashed out at..............
I would kill to have him degrade me and make me his if anyone try’s to convince me otherwise your on my hit list
It baffles me. Billy's a racist child abusing bully but because the actors good looking everybody loves him. Just goes to show that it doesn't actually matter what you do it only matters how you look. Gotta love today's backwards arse society 🤦♂️
No, he’s a product of his environment, do you think people are born racist and abusive? If you think it’s something people are born with there is no point in you watching this video, but if you believe in people learning from what they are brought up with then his character makes a ton of sense. He’s one of my favorite characters and i wish he had a proper redemption, but this isn’t that type of show 🤷
@@PineApple-rw3qv I like how you completely failed to grasp my point. Yes I understand being a product of your environment which is not what is happening with Billy at all and is just you reaching. My problem isn't with the character it's people's reaction to the character and you're literally proving my point. Says a lot about you though if your favourite character is that guy who's only positive is in his sacrifice at the end of season 3. It's all about how he looks. I'd love to see you use the same logic to defend other people that are abusive and racist since like with Billy they also have life experience to influence them into being that way 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@extraplain2412 okay I just wanna slide in here to bring up the point that obviously we know that being attractive doesn’t excuse one’s actions. An abusive person isn’t gonna get away with abuse scot free just because they’re hot, but it may affect how others see that persons actions. That being said- I personally don’t find the character attractive (that wig was not doing him aaaany favors bro) but I was still able to sympathize with him. Honestly, if your only argument for people liking nuanced characters that you don’t like is “oh you just find them hot so of course you’re gonna try and excuse their actions” as you ignore clear points within the same piece of media that truly goes out of its way to explain why this character acts the way he does, how can you expect to be taken seriously? What do you mean there was nothing in his environment that made him act the way he was? Did you miss that whole scene where he had to deal with being abused by his dad because he lost track of his sister? It’s so clear that Billy is just repeating the cycle of abuse that his father put him in, and yes that makes him shitty as a person, but damn- lets just ignore all the nuance surrounding him as a character because people find him hot. 😑
And on the note of trying to excuse real life abusers- obviously abuse isn’t excusable in real life because of how much it can damage the victim, because of the actual consequences that can occur. Though it seems you’ve ignored that he’s not only an abuser- but also a victim (a victim of circumstances, one might say). Another thing about real life abusers- sometimes they are given the opportunity to grow and change into better people. Billy’s character is like 17 or so when we first meet him- so who’s to say that with enough support (aka: good writing) he wouldn’t have been able to turn around and become a better person? Though of course we’ll never know, since the writers decided that they were done with his story.As a victim of abuse myself, just thought I’d throw in my two cents.
Damn sorry about that long ass reply though, it’s like four in the morning and my thoughts are all over the place /:
@@taniaodige3369 I've been a victim of abuse and because my abusers were liked by others nobody cared, so yeah part of what I said is projecting my own experiences and frustrations that this is not just a one off thing that happened to me but something that is actually common in the real world and media.
I get Billy had an abusive father but that just adds layers to the characters rather than being an excuse for his actions. We can understand the hate in Billy but that doesn't mean it's justified or that he should be glorified the way he is and its sad but yes the main reason the character is glorified is because he's attractive that's just a plain fact. He's a good character as in entertaining to watch in the same way someone like Joffrey or Ramsay Bolton are but there's a big difference between enjoying the character in the context of the show and just straight up simping over someone that acts the way he does. I don't get what the possibility of him having support and becoming a better person has to do with anything. That's like saying you should like me because I could cure cancer one day. I'm sorry but I don't want my abusers to find redemption and happiness and for the world to ignore their crimes and my trauma and if you were abused I don't see why you would want that.
umm he’s racist
he's not damn you're all just seeing the scene wrong. race has nothing to do with this, he says max and Lucas arguing and that's understandable reaction
Sees*
@@Sandra-ei9zl after reading more comments i understand how his behaviours towards Lucas likely aren’t specifically about race, but about an over protective attitude. but i don’t think it should be swept under the rug how he talked about the “type of people in this world you should stay away from” and how he literally threw the kid to the wall even after Max referred to him as a friend? i just don’t see a pretty much adult treating a kid that way in the era the show takes place in without a backup source of anger. it wouldnt surprise me if Billy had a racial bias about Lucas due to his targeted anger the moment he saw him. i agree that this evidence and overal feeling i’m getting from him doesn’t make him explicitly a racist.