This method actually reminds me a lot about how we practice in Kyudo as well. Most of the shaho hassetsu (8 steps of shooting) mirrors the KSL shot cycle but in 8 steps, and it's also to help beginners with their form, using the right muscles and all!
Would you mind going a bit deeper into transfer phase? I have the Inside the Archer book by Kisik Lee and Tyler Benner, but I really struggle to understand transfer (and expansion). It might be because English is a foreign language for me and I just don't get the gist of it and/or because I am a bit bigger and don't really have strong muscles so I can't feel what's going on there (or what should go on movement wise). Maybe another explanation with different words than the one from the book, together with a video (and not just still images) might provide a way for me to understand what I should do there / where I should pay attention on. Oh, and of course thanks for your videos and efforts. It really already helped me a lot in my archery career.
transfer ,loading the tension from the draw over to the bone structure , so its carried by the frame and allow muscles to achieve resting possession, this allows the forces to settle. expansion is one of them misleading idioms as it explains what the chest is doing.muscles work in pairs, antagonist and protagonist, when you expand your muscles in the back shortens by contractions , so the pectoralis must expand or stretch to allow movement., hence expansion but what it relay is a contraction.
Transfer physically to simply put is just a change in the direction of the elbow towards the back or behind you in a parallel direction. For the mental step of transfer you just calm yourself down and get yourself ready for the expansion phase. One of the mistake of people doing the transfer is that they actually squeeze their back muscles which can increase your intensity, so instead just try to focus on moving your elbow (Lan 2 in KSL) behind your head.
@@mortenjacobsen5673 Maybe I could have said it better but yes, the transfer phase happens after the archer has come to the anchor position. From there the archer will move his draw elbow more behind in order for his elbow to be behind the line of the arrow which will grant the archer a better access to his/her back muscle. The reason transfer is needed is because there has to be certain amount of forearm and bicep tension to get to the anchor position and lock it place. Transfer helps to remove most of these tension to the back muscle instead but you can't remove all of them as some tension is required in order to keep the hook in place and not start relaxing and sliding off the string. (A simple way to put it is transfer is the continuation of the movement of Lan 2 further behind and around to get most of the tension the the back muscle).
James Smith that’s a pretty good description of it I think. I’ve not really been able to describe it but your mention of removing some of the tension certainly makes sense in my experience. I think ensuring you anchor with elbow inside the arrow is essential in being able to achieve that final minute move from anchor into that transfer to full skeletal alignment/bone on bone, or whatever other terms are out there describing the final holding position.
I teach this same method (KSL - I am a level 2 olympic coach in the USA) but for traditional archery on my channel, using just a theraband but love that this allows you to set your draw length for consistency. just FYI for those that don't know its... and AIMING expansion, etc... Coach Nu maybe left out Aiming because it is not possible to do with this tool however mentally you should add it. Great to see you talking about this!
Coach Lee didn't teach me "aaaand AIMING expansion", he taught "aaaaaand expansion". The shot cycle has Aiming as part of the Expansion to Follow-through, but he reinforced that aiming and release are subconscious actions. He didn't make us articulate Aiming in practising the cycle. He did make the point, however, that shooting indoor short distance was different to the long-distance process we normally do, since indoor requires more active spot-target aiming than the process-driven single-spot long-distance shooting, so it makes sense to have the Aiming > Expansion if you are actively aiming.
Archery Geek hi, I posted above but have not got a straight answer from anyone yet, and since you mention traditional archery you might be able to answer my question. Do you think shooting trad, 3 under with higher anchor points on facial structure, is there any reason this particular training device would not be appropriate. I assume the different anchor position shouldn’t make any difference but at least one person seems to be saying it isn’t appropriate with a higher anchor (at least that’s how I interpret what they are saying)
Adam Zappia it would be perfectly fine to use this tool or just a theraband and anchor high. The shot sequence as coach Nu demonstrates is very very good for traditional archery. This is archery geek btw
NUSensei it has been awhile maybe 5 years now but I seem to recall aiming being part of my training. This could have evolved so thanks so much for teaching me again sensei!! Also this is archery geek. Just responded from my other account
As an archery enthusiast who’s also a linguist i can’t help but sometimes focus on your accent more than the actual video ahaha. You’re in Australia I gathered but your pronunciation is closer to that of people from NZ, with shortened vowels. Just a side note tho, I really soak up the information of your videos, thanks for uploading these :)
Jacqueline Goede yeah no it’s an Aussie accent. About as Aussie as it gets, without it getting to “G’day, Mate, looks like I really stuffed up me other video”
Hey NUsensei I’m debating getting this or the Astra shot trainer. I mainly want to work on getting a consistent release and not dropping my bow arm. My only issue with the Astra is that it looks like you can’t do a proper follow through after releasing with it. Thoughts?
How about the Astra Shot Trainer? Are you going to be doing another video about it as well again? I want to see it demonstrated more fully rather than being too brief about it and not being able to understand it's use as much.
That might be an idea. Though, I don't think that review needs much correction. The way it was shown in the KSL seminar is more or less what i used it for. I might bring it back for a future special training video.
Hi Nu, I’m really committed to improving my form and release (I shoot traditional, 3 under, and considering getting involved in competitive barebow too and have experimented with stringwalking). Is there anything that might stop this shot trainer being useful as a tool when using a higher anchor point as typically used in trad/barebow?
The KSL shot cycle can apply to most styles. The main distinction between this application for Olympic recurve and trad barebow is whether you trained with angular draw or linear draw / push-pull. The trainer is really intended to be used with angular draw. It's not really going to work with a linear draw since in that form, you tend to draw to anchor rather than draw to a holding position.
And if you change nothing else, the thing you should incorporate is the "holding" phase after transfer, which allows you to switch off consciousness and switch to sub-conscious for the release and expansion. You don't need this particular shot trainer to do that. Any band will help you train as long as you are aware of the process you follow.
NUSensei thanks for the detailed replies. I use pretty much the same shot process you go through here and I am pretty sure based on your description of it in this video that my draw is the angular draw, only difference is that my anchor point is higher on my face rather than under the jaw. The reason this product caught my attention was when you said that it can have an exact draw length set - I’d really like to get that feel, or “muscle memory” as you put it for getting consistency in draw length. I’m considering using a limb clicker for trad/hunting, but for barebow comp, any type of draw check is not allowed. I really need to join my local archery club here in Adelaide (I went there when I bought my first bow, a compound) about 2 years ago, and it’s only 5 minutes from home!
@@adamzappia2213 with a high anchor above the force line the strain on muscles and possession or rather the stress on the scapula will be different, so will the follow trough motion be different. if you try to change anchor at full draw you should feel the difference in the trapezius
Morten Jacobsen thanks for the reply. Morten Jacobsen yes, I can see there could be a difference there. I’m not really sure what you mean though and it’s relevance to what I was asking. I really struggled to write this comment without it sounding like I’m trying to be snarky, but that is definitely not the intent. I’m actually curious as to what you mean and if it might help me decide if this product might be a good choice for me. Cheers.
Before. This tool is intended for use at the beginning of learning the shot cycle, and can help get you into the right form and alignment to use a clicker. It remains a valuable tool throughout your progression as training and revision.
Release (and aiming) are not conscious parts of the KSL shot cycle. The aiming and release happen between Expansion and Follow-through. This is one of the crucial elements in the KSL Cycle that pushes the process and alleviates target panic.
This method actually reminds me a lot about how we practice in Kyudo as well. Most of the shaho hassetsu (8 steps of shooting) mirrors the KSL shot cycle but in 8 steps, and it's also to help beginners with their form, using the right muscles and all!
Very well explained my 13 year old son and I are in archery for 6 months and really love the sport.
Ok great
It’s always good it see a revision of content. Excellent video.
Would you mind going a bit deeper into transfer phase? I have the Inside the Archer book by Kisik Lee and Tyler Benner, but I really struggle to understand transfer (and expansion).
It might be because English is a foreign language for me and I just don't get the gist of it and/or because I am a bit bigger and don't really have strong muscles so I can't feel what's going on there (or what should go on movement wise).
Maybe another explanation with different words than the one from the book, together with a video (and not just still images) might provide a way for me to understand what I should do there / where I should pay attention on.
Oh, and of course thanks for your videos and efforts. It really already helped me a lot in my archery career.
transfer ,loading the tension from the draw over to the bone structure , so its carried by the frame and allow muscles to achieve resting possession, this allows the forces to settle. expansion is one of them misleading idioms as it explains what the chest is doing.muscles work in pairs, antagonist and protagonist, when you expand your muscles in the back shortens by contractions , so the pectoralis must expand or stretch to allow movement., hence expansion but what it relay is a contraction.
Transfer physically to simply put is just a change in the direction of the elbow towards the back or behind you in a parallel direction. For the mental step of transfer you just calm yourself down and get yourself ready for the expansion phase. One of the mistake of people doing the transfer is that they actually squeeze their back muscles which can increase your intensity, so instead just try to focus on moving your elbow (Lan 2 in KSL) behind your head.
@@BlasterKotakatik sound like you are describing the draw phase, but at transfer you are at anchor.
@@mortenjacobsen5673 Maybe I could have said it better but yes, the transfer phase happens after the archer has come to the anchor position. From there the archer will move his draw elbow more behind in order for his elbow to be behind the line of the arrow which will grant the archer a better access to his/her back muscle. The reason transfer is needed is because there has to be certain amount of forearm and bicep tension to get to the anchor position and lock it place. Transfer helps to remove most of these tension to the back muscle instead but you can't remove all of them as some tension is required in order to keep the hook in place and not start relaxing and sliding off the string.
(A simple way to put it is transfer is the continuation of the movement of Lan 2 further behind and around to get most of the tension the the back muscle).
James Smith that’s a pretty good description of it I think. I’ve not really been able to describe it but your mention of removing some of the tension certainly makes sense in my experience. I think ensuring you anchor with elbow inside the arrow is essential in being able to achieve that final minute move from anchor into that transfer to full skeletal alignment/bone on bone, or whatever other terms are out there describing the final holding position.
I teach this same method (KSL - I am a level 2 olympic coach in the USA) but for traditional archery on my channel, using just a theraband but love that this allows you to set your draw length for consistency. just FYI for those that don't know its... and AIMING expansion, etc... Coach Nu maybe left out Aiming because it is not possible to do with this tool however mentally you should add it. Great to see you talking about this!
Coach Lee didn't teach me "aaaand AIMING expansion", he taught "aaaaaand expansion". The shot cycle has Aiming as part of the Expansion to Follow-through, but he reinforced that aiming and release are subconscious actions. He didn't make us articulate Aiming in practising the cycle. He did make the point, however, that shooting indoor short distance was different to the long-distance process we normally do, since indoor requires more active spot-target aiming than the process-driven single-spot long-distance shooting, so it makes sense to have the Aiming > Expansion if you are actively aiming.
Archery Geek hi, I posted above but have not got a straight answer from anyone yet, and since you mention traditional archery you might be able to answer my question. Do you think shooting trad, 3 under with higher anchor points on facial structure, is there any reason this particular training device would not be appropriate. I assume the different anchor position shouldn’t make any difference but at least one person seems to be saying it isn’t appropriate with a higher anchor (at least that’s how I interpret what they are saying)
NUSensei - seems like I’ve found a fellow Australian that stays up late. Either that, or you wake up ridiculously early!
Adam Zappia it would be perfectly fine to use this tool or just a theraband and anchor high. The shot sequence as coach Nu demonstrates is very very good for traditional archery. This is archery geek btw
NUSensei it has been awhile maybe 5 years now but I seem to recall aiming being part of my training. This could have evolved so thanks so much for teaching me again sensei!! Also this is archery geek. Just responded from my other account
At least you had a Bow
_I only had Slingshot lol_
I am unclear on how exactly the draw length can be adjusted.
Another good video Dave.
As an archery enthusiast who’s also a linguist i can’t help but sometimes focus on your accent more than the actual video ahaha. You’re in Australia I gathered but your pronunciation is closer to that of people from NZ, with shortened vowels. Just a side note tho, I really soak up the information of your videos, thanks for uploading these :)
Jacqueline Goede yeah no it’s an Aussie accent. About as Aussie as it gets, without it getting to “G’day, Mate, looks like I really stuffed up me other video”
Plus he has a slight accent from being asian aswell, which only adds to his intriguing voice 👍🏻
Hey NUsensei I’m debating getting this or the Astra shot trainer. I mainly want to work on getting a consistent release and not dropping my bow arm. My only issue with the Astra is that it looks like you can’t do a proper follow through after releasing with it. Thoughts?
How about the Astra Shot Trainer? Are you going to be doing another video about it as well again? I want to see it demonstrated more fully rather than being too brief about it and not being able to understand it's use as much.
That might be an idea. Though, I don't think that review needs much correction. The way it was shown in the KSL seminar is more or less what i used it for. I might bring it back for a future special training video.
Hi Nu, I’m really committed to improving my form and release (I shoot traditional, 3 under, and considering getting involved in competitive barebow too and have experimented with stringwalking). Is there anything that might stop this shot trainer being useful as a tool when using a higher anchor point as typically used in trad/barebow?
The KSL shot cycle can apply to most styles. The main distinction between this application for Olympic recurve and trad barebow is whether you trained with angular draw or linear draw / push-pull. The trainer is really intended to be used with angular draw. It's not really going to work with a linear draw since in that form, you tend to draw to anchor rather than draw to a holding position.
And if you change nothing else, the thing you should incorporate is the "holding" phase after transfer, which allows you to switch off consciousness and switch to sub-conscious for the release and expansion. You don't need this particular shot trainer to do that. Any band will help you train as long as you are aware of the process you follow.
NUSensei thanks for the detailed replies. I use pretty much the same shot process you go through here and I am pretty sure based on your description of it in this video that my draw is the angular draw, only difference is that my anchor point is higher on my face rather than under the jaw. The reason this product caught my attention was when you said that it can have an exact draw length set - I’d really like to get that feel, or “muscle memory” as you put it for getting consistency in draw length. I’m considering using a limb clicker for trad/hunting, but for barebow comp, any type of draw check is not allowed. I really need to join my local archery club here in Adelaide (I went there when I bought my first bow, a compound) about 2 years ago, and it’s only 5 minutes from home!
@@adamzappia2213 with a high anchor above the force line the strain on muscles and possession or rather the stress on the scapula will be different, so will the follow trough motion be different. if you try to change anchor at full draw you should feel the difference in the trapezius
Morten Jacobsen thanks for the reply. Morten Jacobsen yes, I can see there could be a difference there. I’m not really sure what you mean though and it’s relevance to what I was asking. I really struggled to write this comment without it sounding like I’m trying to be snarky, but that is definitely not the intent. I’m actually curious as to what you mean and if it might help me decide if this product might be a good choice for me. Cheers.
Is this something that would benefit more before you graduated to a clicker or after?
Before. This tool is intended for use at the beginning of learning the shot cycle, and can help get you into the right form and alignment to use a clicker. It remains a valuable tool throughout your progression as training and revision.
Why do you skip the release
Release (and aiming) are not conscious parts of the KSL shot cycle. The aiming and release happen between Expansion and Follow-through. This is one of the crucial elements in the KSL Cycle that pushes the process and alleviates target panic.
Hahaha! You were once so young…… we all were……
why not use slingshot ?
the pressure point angle nexus is wrong -----aka the grip
If you're not making mistakes, you're not learning.
Wow! I must be learning an awful lot!
Best exercise is your bow....
I love how you mention the draw stop capabilities of this trainer... Then you don't adjust it and anchor behind your jaw 🤦♂️
Noob! :P