The slow & fast, based on your set framerate and then combined with your S&F framerate is confusing at first, when you came from within the Canon cameras. It is normal though. Panasonic differentiates this much better: it's called CFR and VFR. CFR is just selecting resolution and framerate, recording, audio included. VFR is like S&F and audio not included, with Canon being able to save the audio in a seperate file. But yes, it's a commonly used mode. Canon just only does VFR in CineOS.
Here’s a Q: if I start recording in NTSC on my CF Express card and then change to PAL - can you still record it in the same card without having to Re-Format the card? 🤔 - or is this something that’s not possible? Thank you in advance for the info. Also, as always great video!
No you don't need to reformat the card. The system frequency setting only changes is what frame rates are available. The cards don't care what frame rate the files are recorded in they're just video files.
@@PointsInFocus thank you for the input. Strangely enough my R5C switched to EXT instead of Stanby mode when I switched from the 59.94Hz to the 50.00Hz. I live in the US however, I’m currently in Europe and I noticed during my recordings I would get flickers in the lighting. I then decided to switch over to frequency 50.00 Hz. I didn’t notice that the camera suddenly started recording to EXT, meaning that it was recording to an external HDMI output . Looking carefully after I try to review all the footage in my hotel room I noticed that everything that I had thought to have recorded after I made the switch to 50.00 Hz never made it to the CF express card. This is why I asked if I have to reformat The card every time I switch from one frequency to another. Perhaps I’m doing something wrong?
Whenever you change modes, I always double check all the recording settings. I've found sometimes things will get reset, and my resolution and compression won't be what I had them in the other mode. At least I seem to remember that happening the first time I switched into either 24 Hz or 50 Hz. Second, you can deal flicker by changing the shutter speed/angle while staying in 59.94 Hz. I've got a video on on it here th-cam.com/video/QM_183Ppwcc/w-d-xo.html.
Super helpful! At 15:56 you talk about setting a direct access button for "Slow and Fast Motion"; but is there a direct access button to turn on "Slow and Fast Motion with Audio"? It's also astonishing there isn't a direct Frame Rate custom button option, right?
No, there isn't a direct access function for S&F w/ Audio. Though you can get to it quick quickly through the direct touch interface. There is a direct access button from the S&F Frame rate, but not the normal frame rate. And, no I don't think it's taht astonishing that there isn't, as that's not something you should be changing that frequently. At least it's not something that I've ever found I wanted to change that much, and I don't think it would even rate in the context of a cinema camera application. Though you can also get to frame rates pretty quickly through the direct touch interface too, so it's not that big of a dig.
It's needed for run and gun applications on the R5C at 8K60p (i.e. internal battery only): Native RF glass is powered off, so you can't even manual focus or change aperture. The workaround is to change to 30p, focus/change aperture, and then quickly switch to 60p and shoot. It actually works really well, but it would be even faster if there was a button to instantly change frame rate. S&F button works fine, though: set S&F to 30p, and hit your custom S&F button to enable autofocus/aperture. Then, hit your S&F button again to switch back to 8K60p. Of course, you could use an external battery pack or v-mount, but this gives you an 8K60p cinema camera that fits in a small bag@@PointsInFocus
@@theclifbarif you’re worried about size, weight of the camera with an external battery like a big v mount battery you can get 8k/60 when using a small usb c PD battery bank. just strap it onto the bottom of the camera and it’s much more compact, and light than using v mount. Canon recommends using at minimum a 45 watt PD battery bank but with my testing it doesn’t really matter the wattage of the bank it just needs to have minimum 3 amps on the 9V profile (27watts). It will still work if the bank delivers more than 3 amps like some have 9V/5A. Just as long as it’s 3A or over.It’s so much more convenient and last much longer than the internal stock battery.
So in retrospect the camera is just slowing down 60fps footage in 4K 120? I'm wondering if it is worth it. Probably is easier to just slow it down in premiere. I know it will look better being oversampled. At least from my GH5
@@PointsInFocus oh wow thank you for the reply! I haven't even tested it yet. I bought a SanDisk type b with the camera but they did not include it. Wait until Friday for that. I want to grab a camera cage but I'm not sure if I will need it using it with just DJI Mic and RS2 pro
I put my R5C in a SmallRig "Black Mamba" cage. It's low enough profile that it doesn't get in the way, but gives you some extra mounting points and a top handle spot (it's not a good idea to mount a top handle to the camera's hot shoe).
@@PointsInFocus yeah I was thinking about getting that one. I'm just not sure what I need yet. I still need to throw it on my gimbal and balance it. See how that works out. I do a lot of locked off shots indoors. I am about to start offering photo and video services. I still have a lot to learn.
Join the club on color grading. I use Canon's C.Log3 to rec709 wide DR lut with some minor adjustments on top of that for these videos. I have no idea if that's a good strategy or not. I thought I understood color management and what not when I was doing photography, but moving to video and the whole thing seems like it's insanity built on more insanity. I'm not sure if that's a product of documentation (or the lack there of) or what, but more often than not I just go by what looks good to me and hope that works out in the end.
@@PointsInFocus yeah I suppose you're right. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself. I will have to get my hands on that lut. I'm looking forward to testing the 8k raw light
I don't think it's a case of being too hard on your self or not, at least it's not been that for me. My problems with grading come down to to fundamental points. First, I don't completely understand whats going on under the hood. For instance, my displays are calibrated, does Resolve use that calibration information when displaying the onscreen monitors or not? I know you can calibrate an external display driven by a Blackmagic Decklink or what not, but I have no idea if it's properly doing color management internally for the normal displays. It also doesn't help that I have no idea how the heck I should have my displays calibrated and profiled (I'm still in the world of photography, where I want the widest possible gamut for printing, not the world of video where I want to be in rec.709 or 2020. Without that foundational understanding I have no idea if what I'm doing is even right, let alone if someone else will see something anywhere close to what I'm seeing. The other problem is one of creative confidence. Aside from the first step of getting things white balanced properly, the entire rest of the processes is all creative decisions. I don't have fancy letters behind my name or gold plated awards on my wall/mantel. None of that is objective, so you have to have enough confidence in yourself doing it the way you want it that you can be confident that you're getting the results you wanted. Of course, that assumes you even understand what you actually want in the first place - aside from just reasonably good looking video.
@@PointsInFocus thank you for being so thoughtful in your response. I have been trying to do tech reviews on TH-cam for a long while. As I work full time I haven't had much time to learn and put it on the back burner. I started taking photos of my beautiful girlfriend and many people started trying to book me for photo shoots. Now I am still working full time but am going to be offering services for photo and video. TH-cam comments Make me second-guess my knowledge, or likability lol. I have learned to tune out the bad comments and continue creating. I don't consider myself very smart or remarkably good at any one thing. One thing that helps me is my awareness and street smarts. I have decided to put effort into things I've been putting off. Learning how to read scopes and look at properly coloring my videos. Selog is going to throw me a few curve balls I can tell already. I have a mismatch monitor setup. Makes grading HDR very difficult. So for color grading I will use my better monitor. Then switch to dual monitor after.
Unfortunately, no. At least not that I can think of. You'd need to change the resolution, recording format, recording mode, and frame rate to get there. If the camera had custom user modes like the R5 has, then you could use something like that, but it doesn't have that as an option. And while you can save and load menu settings, that wouldn't be a single button press, and I'm not sure it would cover all of the settings anyway.
That's interesting, I haven't seen that one before. It almost sounds to me like the card you're using isn't fast enough to keep up with the camera. Are you shooting to a CF express card or a SD card? And has it been recently reformatted?
CF Express should be fast enough to not pose any problem, but I'd probably start by retrying with a freshly formatted card just to be sure. Off hand, I can't think of a setting that would limit the S&F record time, but if all else fails, you could reset the camera to the default settings and see if it persists after that. Just make sure you back up your menu settings to an SD card before you do that so you can restore the camera's settings quickly if that doesn't work.
If you're using the normal recording mode at 60 FPS, you'll need to change the video frame rate in post to see a slow down. For example, in DaVinci Resolve, you'd go into the "Clip Attributes" menu and change the frame rate from 59.94 to 24 or 30 FPS. I'm not sure exactly where you'd go in Premiere Pro, but there should be a similar function somewhere. If you're shooting in S&F motion, you'll need to have the "playback" frame rate (the one that's just labeled "Frame Rate" in the camera menus) set to either 24 or 30 FPS, and the S&F motion frame rate set to 60 FPS.
Thank you. I understand now. Unfortunately, the camera will not play back in slow motion (under these settings). I wish that it did. It is time-consuming to pull out the card and view slow motion on a computer. :-) @@PointsInFocus
Are you shooting these clips in slow and fast motion mode or in normal recording mode? You can do both, but only the latter (S&F motion) will play back in slow motion in camera.
Generally, 180°. The shutter angle generally doesn't change with the playback frame rate when doing slow motion. Though as always, if it's for something really important, the best approach is to shoot some test footage and choose what suits your needs best; regardless of rules of thumb.
@@PointsInFocus Thanks for the reply. Shutter Speed is set to double the fps. That would be 250, the R5c like you said has fps and frame rate setting which are not the same. Shutter angle at 180° still has to much motion blur so 180° is not the rule. To get the same look as 250 shutter speed at 120 fps 4K you need to change shutter angle to 120°, 90° or 60°. I'm surprised every says 180° is standard because it's not a catch all setting.
@@PointsInFocus How does that work if you use 180° for everything? I see extra motion blur like you would see at 1/120th shutter speed. It's recorded at 120 fps but any fast movement has the same motion blur as 24fps at 1/48th. Shutter angle has to be fast enough able to capture the detail in motion. Look up "Sony FX3 (120fps 4K Cinematic Test) - Polo Game". On the R5C you do not get the same result at 1/180° shutter angle at 120fps. I have done test at 1/180, 1/120, 1/90 ,etc.
Great video Thank you! Appreciated the reference to a specific page of the user manual for more details.
Thanks so much for sharing those tips! 🤩 Sending big like 👍🏻
The slow & fast, based on your set framerate and then combined with your S&F framerate is confusing at first, when you came from within the Canon cameras. It is normal though. Panasonic differentiates this much better: it's called CFR and VFR. CFR is just selecting resolution and framerate, recording, audio included. VFR is like S&F and audio not included, with Canon being able to save the audio in a seperate file. But yes, it's a commonly used mode. Canon just only does VFR in CineOS.
Hi, thanks for the info.
Here’s a Q: if I start recording in NTSC on my CF Express card and then change to PAL - can you still record it in the same card without having to Re-Format the card? 🤔 - or is this something that’s not possible? Thank you in advance for the info. Also, as always great video!
No you don't need to reformat the card.
The system frequency setting only changes is what frame rates are available. The cards don't care what frame rate the files are recorded in they're just video files.
@@PointsInFocus thank you for the input. Strangely enough my R5C switched to EXT instead of Stanby mode when I switched from the 59.94Hz to the 50.00Hz.
I live in the US however, I’m currently in Europe and I noticed during my recordings I would get flickers in the lighting. I then decided to switch over to frequency 50.00 Hz. I didn’t notice that the camera suddenly started recording to EXT, meaning that it was recording to an external HDMI output . Looking carefully after I try to review all the footage in my hotel room I noticed that everything that I had thought to have recorded after I made the switch to 50.00 Hz never made it to the CF express card. This is why I asked if I have to reformat The card every time I switch from one frequency to another. Perhaps I’m doing something wrong?
Whenever you change modes, I always double check all the recording settings. I've found sometimes things will get reset, and my resolution and compression won't be what I had them in the other mode. At least I seem to remember that happening the first time I switched into either 24 Hz or 50 Hz.
Second, you can deal flicker by changing the shutter speed/angle while staying in 59.94 Hz. I've got a video on on it here th-cam.com/video/QM_183Ppwcc/w-d-xo.html.
Super helpful! At 15:56 you talk about setting a direct access button for "Slow and Fast Motion"; but is there a direct access button to turn on "Slow and Fast Motion with Audio"? It's also astonishing there isn't a direct Frame Rate custom button option, right?
No, there isn't a direct access function for S&F w/ Audio. Though you can get to it quick quickly through the direct touch interface.
There is a direct access button from the S&F Frame rate, but not the normal frame rate. And, no I don't think it's taht astonishing that there isn't, as that's not something you should be changing that frequently. At least it's not something that I've ever found I wanted to change that much, and I don't think it would even rate in the context of a cinema camera application. Though you can also get to frame rates pretty quickly through the direct touch interface too, so it's not that big of a dig.
It's needed for run and gun applications on the R5C at 8K60p (i.e. internal battery only): Native RF glass is powered off, so you can't even manual focus or change aperture. The workaround is to change to 30p, focus/change aperture, and then quickly switch to 60p and shoot. It actually works really well, but it would be even faster if there was a button to instantly change frame rate.
S&F button works fine, though: set S&F to 30p, and hit your custom S&F button to enable autofocus/aperture. Then, hit your S&F button again to switch back to 8K60p. Of course, you could use an external battery pack or v-mount, but this gives you an 8K60p cinema camera that fits in a small bag@@PointsInFocus
@@theclifbarif you’re worried about size, weight of the camera with an external battery like a big v mount battery you can get 8k/60 when using a small usb c PD battery bank. just strap it onto the bottom of the camera and it’s much more compact, and light than using v mount. Canon recommends using at minimum a 45 watt PD battery bank but with my testing it doesn’t really matter the wattage of the bank it just needs to have minimum 3 amps on the 9V profile (27watts). It will still work if the bank delivers more than 3 amps like some have 9V/5A. Just as long as it’s 3A or over.It’s so much more convenient and last much longer than the internal stock battery.
So in retrospect the camera is just slowing down 60fps footage in 4K 120? I'm wondering if it is worth it. Probably is easier to just slow it down in premiere. I know it will look better being oversampled. At least from my GH5
No, when you shoot at 4K120, the camera shoots 120 actual distinct frames per second, it's not duplicating frames shot at 60 FPS.
@@PointsInFocus oh wow thank you for the reply! I haven't even tested it yet. I bought a SanDisk type b with the camera but they did not include it. Wait until Friday for that. I want to grab a camera cage but I'm not sure if I will need it using it with just DJI Mic and RS2 pro
I put my R5C in a SmallRig "Black Mamba" cage. It's low enough profile that it doesn't get in the way, but gives you some extra mounting points and a top handle spot (it's not a good idea to mount a top handle to the camera's hot shoe).
@@PointsInFocus yeah I was thinking about getting that one. I'm just not sure what I need yet. I still need to throw it on my gimbal and balance it. See how that works out. I do a lot of locked off shots indoors. I am about to start offering photo and video services. I still have a lot to learn.
Do you have any suggestions for luts in c log 3. I'm trying to simplify the chain because I am horrible with color grading.
Join the club on color grading. I use Canon's C.Log3 to rec709 wide DR lut with some minor adjustments on top of that for these videos. I have no idea if that's a good strategy or not.
I thought I understood color management and what not when I was doing photography, but moving to video and the whole thing seems like it's insanity built on more insanity. I'm not sure if that's a product of documentation (or the lack there of) or what, but more often than not I just go by what looks good to me and hope that works out in the end.
@@PointsInFocus yeah I suppose you're right. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself. I will have to get my hands on that lut. I'm looking forward to testing the 8k raw light
I don't think it's a case of being too hard on your self or not, at least it's not been that for me.
My problems with grading come down to to fundamental points. First, I don't completely understand whats going on under the hood. For instance, my displays are calibrated, does Resolve use that calibration information when displaying the onscreen monitors or not? I know you can calibrate an external display driven by a Blackmagic Decklink or what not, but I have no idea if it's properly doing color management internally for the normal displays. It also doesn't help that I have no idea how the heck I should have my displays calibrated and profiled (I'm still in the world of photography, where I want the widest possible gamut for printing, not the world of video where I want to be in rec.709 or 2020.
Without that foundational understanding I have no idea if what I'm doing is even right, let alone if someone else will see something anywhere close to what I'm seeing.
The other problem is one of creative confidence. Aside from the first step of getting things white balanced properly, the entire rest of the processes is all creative decisions. I don't have fancy letters behind my name or gold plated awards on my wall/mantel. None of that is objective, so you have to have enough confidence in yourself doing it the way you want it that you can be confident that you're getting the results you wanted. Of course, that assumes you even understand what you actually want in the first place - aside from just reasonably good looking video.
@@PointsInFocus thank you for being so thoughtful in your response. I have been trying to do tech reviews on TH-cam for a long while. As I work full time I haven't had much time to learn and put it on the back burner. I started taking photos of my beautiful girlfriend and many people started trying to book me for photo shoots. Now I am still working full time but am going to be offering services for photo and video. TH-cam comments Make me second-guess my knowledge, or likability lol. I have learned to tune out the bad comments and continue creating. I don't consider myself very smart or remarkably good at any one thing. One thing that helps me is my awareness and street smarts. I have decided to put effort into things I've been putting off. Learning how to read scopes and look at properly coloring my videos. Selog is going to throw me a few curve balls I can tell already. I have a mismatch monitor setup. Makes grading HDR very difficult. So for color grading I will use my better monitor. Then switch to dual monitor after.
Thanks for this.
Is there a way, when shooting in 8K Raw/60, to be able to press one button for 4K/120 (slow fast motion)?
Unfortunately, no. At least not that I can think of.
You'd need to change the resolution, recording format, recording mode, and frame rate to get there. If the camera had custom user modes like the R5 has, then you could use something like that, but it doesn't have that as an option. And while you can save and load menu settings, that wouldn't be a single button press, and I'm not sure it would cover all of the settings anyway.
Thank you!@@PointsInFocus
in S and F mode once i put it at 120, it just films for 10 seconds and does a STANDBY mode
That's interesting, I haven't seen that one before.
It almost sounds to me like the card you're using isn't fast enough to keep up with the camera. Are you shooting to a CF express card or a SD card? And has it been recently reformatted?
@@PointsInFocus CF Express. I haven’t formatted it since I bought the camera in March
CF Express should be fast enough to not pose any problem, but I'd probably start by retrying with a freshly formatted card just to be sure.
Off hand, I can't think of a setting that would limit the S&F record time, but if all else fails, you could reset the camera to the default settings and see if it persists after that. Just make sure you back up your menu settings to an SD card before you do that so you can restore the camera's settings quickly if that doesn't work.
@@PointsInFocus ok. I’ll do that and give an update
Can I go down to 22fps?
Yes, in either of the slow and fast motion recording modes (with or without audio).
Thanks for a wonderful video. I have a question please: Is it possible to video 8k RAW 60fps video playback in slow motion? Thank you.
Sure, as long as you're not trying to play it back at 60 FPS.
Thank you so much for your reply. I am having difficulty viewing the footage in slow motion. 😞@@PointsInFocus
If you're using the normal recording mode at 60 FPS, you'll need to change the video frame rate in post to see a slow down. For example, in DaVinci Resolve, you'd go into the "Clip Attributes" menu and change the frame rate from 59.94 to 24 or 30 FPS. I'm not sure exactly where you'd go in Premiere Pro, but there should be a similar function somewhere.
If you're shooting in S&F motion, you'll need to have the "playback" frame rate (the one that's just labeled "Frame Rate" in the camera menus) set to either 24 or 30 FPS, and the S&F motion frame rate set to 60 FPS.
Thank you. I understand now. Unfortunately, the camera will not play back in slow motion (under these settings). I wish that it did. It is time-consuming to pull out the card and view slow motion on a computer. :-) @@PointsInFocus
Are you shooting these clips in slow and fast motion mode or in normal recording mode? You can do both, but only the latter (S&F motion) will play back in slow motion in camera.
What's the correct shutter angle for 120 fps at 59.95 frame rate?
Generally, 180°.
The shutter angle generally doesn't change with the playback frame rate when doing slow motion. Though as always, if it's for something really important, the best approach is to shoot some test footage and choose what suits your needs best; regardless of rules of thumb.
@@PointsInFocus Thanks for the reply. Shutter Speed is set to double the fps. That would be 250, the R5c like you said has fps and frame rate setting which are not the same. Shutter angle at 180° still has to much motion blur so 180° is not the rule. To get the same look as 250 shutter speed at 120 fps 4K you need to change shutter angle to 120°, 90° or 60°. I'm surprised every says 180° is standard because it's not a catch all setting.
1/250 would be 172.8° at 120 FPS.
180° at 120 FPS would be 1/240th exactly.
@@PointsInFocus How does that work if you use 180° for everything? I see extra motion blur like you would see at 1/120th shutter speed. It's recorded at 120 fps but any fast movement has the same motion blur as 24fps at 1/48th. Shutter angle has to be fast enough able to capture the detail in motion. Look up "Sony FX3 (120fps 4K Cinematic Test) - Polo Game". On the R5C you do not get the same result at 1/180° shutter angle at 120fps. I have done test at 1/180, 1/120, 1/90 ,etc.
@@PointsInFocus I just watched a few videos that explain shutter angle the same way you did. I will do some test and let you know what I find.