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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2022
- 1.3 diesel multijet (2008) v 0.9 twinair petrol (2021) should be a spanking for the old smoker !!
We love off road - so join our adventures as we prepare our vehicles in the workshop and drive the tracks here in the stunning Algarve region of Portugal.
Dropping in the occasional "off piste" video when something tickles us, as we look at other vehicles, workshop products to give you tips and practical advice on maintaining your pride and joy !
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#fiatpanda4x4
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#4x4 - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
That 1.3 MultiJet is one competent piece of kit! Sad that Fiat have killed it of, anyone know why?
Not the most scientific test ever done - we were both 100% gobsmacked - driven both regularly over the last few weeks, we would have (both) wagered every penny the twinair would not just win, thrash the old chugger - well, well, well !! ( economy a totally different story, the 1.3 sips the liquid gold, regardless how you drive it)
Hi Rider of the North.....i believe Fiat have now stopped all production of thier diesel engines because of the decline in sales, and its becoming more difficult to meet the stringent emission standards, as with most other automotive companies Fiat will probably not be investing any more research and production of petrol engines but will now invest in electric powered vehicles......
@@stefanobio7045 Thank you for your answer. Yes that is what i thought about it too. Let´s hope that the Panda will keep it´s four wheel drive as an electric, but i doubt it.
Diesels couldn't be cleaned up cheaply to regulations? Necessary particulate filters and urea systems.
Besides, diesel sales fell off a cliff after VW
Because the group will be focusing on EV cars from now on.
I've had both and love them in different ways.
Has the diesel re-mapped and 52mpg with lot's of go.
The twin air is doing 39 mpg and i can't stop smiling with the noise 😁
Brilliant, brilliant little cars..
Agare totally - although we are a tad more lead footed so get 30-35 ish tops - the 1.3 regardless of how you drive (and my speeding ticket in it just arrived 😭) 50-55 amazing !
@@DrivenMadShow Agree. Our Feep is in the range 55-33mpg, average over more than 13000km is 38,7mpg.
Not so good, but we are living in Bavaria and we do have mountains here...
great video guys, thanks!
Good fun, till it broke 🤣
Hi Jon and Nath.....another interesting and well produced video so thank you for posting.
How many miles has each car covered?
From my own personal experiences of owning both the twin air and multijet versions it takes a while for the TA to "bed in"....this took around 30,000+ miles before the TA felt lose, so i would complete another test at a later stage.
Also the TA and multijet have different transaxles with different gear ratios which will make a difference although i believe that the transfer box and rear diffs are identical?
Im presuming you had the economy mode button turned off in the TA as that will definitely effect performance?
How are the knees doing now Jon are you still the official family dog walker lol......
I changed the rear discs and pads on my 2015 cross this weekend so i can give you and Nath some advice when you need to replace yours but it will be easier for you both as you have access to a car lift, its an akward job as the 4 very tight torx bolts on the rear of the hub need to be removed to access the 2 equally very tight cap headed screws which hold the brake caliper carrier in position! Why fiat changed to this design is beyond my comprehension and pay scale!
Best regards to you both,
Stefano
Hi Stefano
Well produced is very very generous :) - it was an interesting day, we were sure the TA would trash the diesel - the TA is on 20K the diesel on 135K - then arrived home to a speeding ticket - in Paddy of all cars - lucky it it just pay up no points - confident it was me not Nathan
The eco button is hit without thinking, its muscle memory now, start the engine - eco - start stop - plug in phone, then go !
The knee injections are frankly a miracle - had to be strapped up for a month so the fracture knitted, but up to 10K steps a day now with woofer in tow !! - kind of you to ask !
As the sun has at last broken through, the JEEP is getting the daily drive as a soft top, shame the fuel is so high, but with Mr. Putin threatening to end us all, I am not going to worry, just appreciate where I live and how lucky I am to be able to enjoy it.
Paddy is heading to a real mechanic, as we have found a decent one, the clunk really does not sound right and I think it is worse (Nath says I am imagining it) so whilst he checks it over, we are wimping out and letting him fit a new clutch (sorry !) rather than us.
The brakes we will do on Pete, Nath is about to tackle that job on the L200, a much easier task, so will take all the advice we can get.
Believe you have sun, so enjoy the weekend
KR J&N
@@DrivenMadShow Hi Jon and Nath
Well we had a lovely sunny warm day here yesterday but today its rain, cold, and grey skies 😞
I personally found the TA takes about 30,000 miles to run the engine in, you have quite a mileage difference between both the cars, so that has to be taken into consideration, together with the different ratios within the transaxle.
Sorry to hear about your speeding ticket Jon but like you said at least you did not receive any penalty points as that would increase your insurance premium.
We owned two TA Panda's from new but we always left the eco button switched off, the car felt very under powered and for the amount of fuel saved it was not worth it, we also always had the stop / start function switched off as that greatly increases engine wear.
Thats great news about your knee Jon, your soon be running a marathon lol.....
Thats good your now using the jeep and enjoying the Mediterranean climate, we really miss the sun and good weather, unfortunately the UK weather forecast is the coldest May in the last 25 years!
Im surprised you and Nath are not investigating that suspicious noise and changing the clutch yourselves, you have the vehicle lift and tools etc and would have made another interesting video for your channel, but at least you have found a mechanic you can trust, are they independent and local?
When your ready to change your rear brake discs on the new Panda then please let me know and i will outline the correct procedure and tools etc that you will need, you do NOT need to remove the hubs, or drop down the rear suspension as some people have mentioned, there is a far easier method, its just awkward and time consuming and you need the correct tools, i just cannot understand why Fiat changed the design to make such a simple job so difficult?
Have a great day guys its a Bank Holiday here tomorrow so im just hoping we may get a bit of your sun.....stay well....best regards to you both, Stefano......
Yes, yes, yes, Jono, you're back and looking as hot as ever
The twiglet legs now working again !! 😘
Now you have 2 pandas, i sugest you to make a test on rollers to compare traction and ELD performance...
Need to find some - great idea 👍
@@DrivenMadShow Rollers are sold at motorcycle dealers, they are used for chain maintenance. Usually they are built very sturdy, so I think they will easily carry a car.
Matches my Experience, I have the 2007 Opel Combo with the 75hp Version of the 1.3 and I have out-towed a friends 1.6 102hp Vectra uphill, both with a 1ton Trailer and 3 Souls on Board, me in 4th and a fairly mild 2500-3000 revs while he was in 2nd, well in the 5000s and couldn't keep up or go into 3rd. I passed him confidently.
Great engines - I regret not giving it a slight tune to 105, would have flown
I bought a brand new Punto Evo 1.3 MJ in 2010 and used it without any problems for 70K kms in 3 years. Taxi cars in İstanbul are mostly Fiat Egea (Tipo) 1.3 multijet and by following proper oil change intervals, they don't need overhauling up to one million kilometers.
Sister in law's doblo went round the clock twice, no problem - I really rate the engine - very tempted to get it to the 95hp the van had (but a speeding ticket arrived today, so having second thoughts😭)
As ever a quality little video! Something I’ve personally been waiting for
As mentioned before I have a Twin Air, but originally wanted a 95bhp Diesel, in the UK they are like rocking horse 💩
When I asked a few forum questions Diesel v TA, I never got a very conclusive answer, and having owned a Qubo Diesel 5 Speed, the gearbox was also an issue in my mind, Having owned the TA for over 12 months the fuel consumption is a niggle but I only do short journeys and on like for like driving my 4x4 Diesel Yeti does about the same MPG
But what you have both reinforced IMHO
Fiat dropped a clanger, the Diesel with a 6 Speed Gearbox would have been a peach of a car, especially with some Diesel remapping wizardry
Glad to see you’re back on your feet, but you need to stop being so sympathetic on the transmission with your launches, after all your viewers don’t have to pay for the breakages ❤️🏴Ace
I still miss my Qubo 🂱 -considering Paddy is a slightly knackered 70 hp one, how surprised were we ! - I was in Pete for go 1 - luckily no camera on me as I recall a torrid of "you must be effn joking" 🤣
A 90 hp must go very well - we have tried (speeding ticket to prove !) thrashing the bejesus out of Paddy, still 55mpg !! my last thing, giving both the beans up our windy (that looks like wind, sorry is spelt wrong) route to the batcave - the weight of the 1.3 (take into account buggered old suspension) gives it the edge on outright chuckability, another shock to me - thought the twin would win in every department bar economy.
Glad the Yeti is a hit - we have moved to the JEEP for daily commute - suns out guns out (well my twiglet legs) the softtop makes the fuel price a distant panic 🙈
Glad the sun is out in Wales - makes those sheep frisky !!!
KR J&N
It’s certainly an odd conclusion, I’ve always assumed the light TA engine up front would have made it less likely to plough straight on in a bend, that said I loved driving the Qubo, I used to call it my willing sinner, 75bhp but it never felt like a gutless little diesel, just I felt it bogged down a little in 1st gear, maybe the Panda has a different ratio?
The 1st gear in the TA is a niggle for me, especially when the is an arse hole next to. You wanting to embarrass you from the lights, it soon hits the Rev limiter, but it’s taken scalps on cold wet days with its traction
But now I have the old man Yeti’s and a filthy looking goaty to match the car, I’ve had some great fun with some full gas DSG launches it’s surprises me how quick a 170 bhp diesel is with a 4x4 transmission
First day of rain for weeks Yesterday and we’re in Criccieth, but we’ve had some lovely weekends here, invested in a new Air Awning, a nice pop up Gazebo, air windbreak, a lovely gas bbq and pizza stone and making some lovely homemade dough and pizza, well can’t afford to keep buying takeaways and the diesel to get here 🤣
I bet the Jeep is great fun, the Yeti has a Pan Roof so that’s been getting used
Take a look at my Facebook Page you’ll see some photos of it fully loaded on a trip to the coast! 🤣 other half, little girl and 3 dogs ( roof box and rear cargo bag ) thing still pulls like a train and does 50mpg across Wales
That’s enough about me! Good to catch up and see you looking sprightly again, hope the warmer weather is helping those skinny old bones
Ace 🏴 deep in 🇬🇧☀️⛺️
@UC4Vyo2%F0%9F%98%82%F0%9F%98%87aVAPBmLDI7qckwa8A Nice to see you are "hard" at last - not sure what to make of the name change, might need explaining :) - taken our time with this one - both cars a very close in weight, an unscientific lift told us nothing, perhaps the distribution is not as we expect, so the weight of the diesel balances it more ? but Nath and I drove them, a nats between them, but we both feel the front end of Paddy goes in better - probably just an illusion as the song goes !!
I think the twinair has a much lower 1st gear so is at a disadvantage off the mark.
I find the best way to get a quick launch is almost forget 1st gear, just use it to get rolling then change up into 2nd and floor it!
I've even tried setting off in 2nd gear, if the road is slightly downhill, it works a treat but if flat not great for the clutch or DMF if you have to slip the clutch much more than usual.
I've had some cracking launches using that method starting in 2nd and embarrassed a few 'boy racers' at the lights!! ⚠️😳😁😲
We clutch slip to negate the soft limiter - must admit, I am not great at getting it off the line 🙈 Nath does not think of the bills, so he rags it better than me (never thought I would turn into an old fart !!) but on song, it chucks you into your seat - great fun !
@@DrivenMadShow I'm a bit like you, thinking of the clutch and dual mass flywheel but I have had some eye opening launches from it especially screeching multiple wheels in 1st gear!😳😲😁
It's quite satisfying getting that 2nd gear launch dialled in spot on but it takes the right slightly downhill start to get the full benefit.
When they start off in 1st and pull away, I'm slowly getting it wound up in 2nd so getting left behind slightly but when they slightly let off and change up into 2nd I'm flying past as the turbo boost kicks in and fast approaching my 2nd to 3rd gear change where I now have a huge advantage....and higher terminal speed ..👍😲😁
Commom issue with almost all 6 speed gearboxes. I hate them. I drive a 6 speed polo and i hate it. To the point i skip the first gear some times because it's just not practical. Makes no difference, it's like launching from first in a 5 speed.
@@xXturbo86Xx On the Fiat Panda 4x4 Twinair the 6 speed box main advantage is that very low first gear is like a 'crawler' gear.
So in slow moving traffic, where most cars are stop, start, I can just let it idle in 1st gear with no throttle and it will just crawl along without stalling or dipping the clutch.
The very low ratio is also a benefit if you take it off road, it's like a mountain goat over loose, rough surfaces you can use the same crawling technique to get you over most terrain without loosing momentum.
The other advantage is 6th gear is quite tall, it's not really a gear you'd use around town or in a 30mph zone.
But at A road and motorway speeds it's perfect.
The 6 ratios seem to be well matched to the little 875cc Twinair engine, remember it's only a 2 cylinder engine, so it needs lots of ratios to get the best out of it.👍
I like your workshop, that should be the right size for my vehicles!
We are lucky - commercial here in Portugal is peanuts - houses are stupid prices, that's why 4 years in and we still live in our original holiday home :)
@@DrivenMadShow How do you communicate there? English or Portugese?
In the 1980s I was excellent in English, but today I've forgotten most of it and my prounounciation is terrible.
Unfortunately I don't speak further languages. German and Bavarian are my native languages and Latin never reached a level to talk fluently and isn't spoken anywhere than in Vatikan. My mother tried to teach us Hungarian, but it didn't work. Hungary should also be a nice place to have a house and a workshop that are affordable.
Not sure how you are writing so well, if you have forgotten all your English ! - my wife is good at Portuguese, me, not so good - typical English ... lazy & stupid !!
It is quite difficult (as a language anyway) but our neighbours at home are French / Swedish and a lot of English - here at the man cave, not many units have Portuguese - it is Swedish, South African / Spanish / Dutch / Irish & German in the main, with English being the common language.
Here the young Portuguese all speak English - oddly, with an American lilt - it is because of online games, TH-cam etc - also films here are shown in English, not dubbed - so the need also is low added to my stupidity, I am getting away with it.
My brother-in law is German (forget from where, I think Frankfurt, but probably wrong ) think he speaks 5+ languages, clever sod !!
Never been to Hungary, believe it to be a great country, we are not much of travellers, think Nathan has been to more countries than we have and he is only 21 ! He and his (Portuguese) girlfriend were in Germany for most of January together, he came home then as she was on a 3 month something or other for her university degree.
So hope this makes sense as I suspect you google translate ? Portuguese to English is not great the Portuguese tell me !
KR Jon
@@DrivenMadShow Thank you, I thought my comments were "typical German" so anyone can see something like a "written accent", if you know what I mean.
No, I don't use a translator, but I always have to look up some words. E.g. "look up" I wasn't sure if it's the correct phrase, but yes, it was!
And I understand nearly everything but some words that are not used so frequently. I'm also watching english youtube-videos all the time. And I love British english/accent, I dislike american english, it doesn't sound great to me. I've been to Whitsable/Kent thrice when I was a student in 1982, 1984 and 1986, it was a great time back then!
Last time I came back from Whitstable I even copied their accent without noticing and my teacher wasn't very pleased with that! :-) Well, I didn't care very much, I just loved it!
Hungary is great, very friendly people, good food, many lovely places to visit and still rather cheap to live there. My mother is a native speaker, she was born in a small village which changed its nationality several times. Her ancestors were Austrian Germans and German settlers which came there somewhen in the 17th century. As it was Austro-Hungary back then, there was a big population of Hungarians, so the common language was Hungarian as well as German. They were forced to leave the country (now Slovakia) in 1946.
Kindest regards,
Felix
@@Felix-fy7ki To be honest, very un-German to me - I thought you were English, so your written word is amazing - double amazing as you write it yourself .
I am a Northern Englander (Newcastle born) but raised in the south from 11 - we last lived in Portsmouth, so as far south as you can get without getting wet ! I was very mobile for work, so ventured to almost everywhere in England & Wales at some point or another - know Whitstable quite well ( where business are - not that there are many) Ramsgate / Margate were regulars for me - oddly in the early 80's
Thats quite the surprise - I can send my Twinair pretty hard, it surprises a lot of folks at the traffic light GP.
Has Paddy got some seat covers as they look quite similar to Pete's seats?
We had the twin air not just winning, thrashing the old smoker in every way - so shows how wrong we were ! gobsmacked to be honest.
Pete's seats have never been sat on (other home from the dealer) without the seat covers on - so ordered the exact same ones to cover Paddy's hideous green n cream ones - Pete's seats are great, but as we have ploughed through the dust etc, thought I would save them, although the vacuum is always out 😇
Big problem we have is Reg (the squatter cat) loves them to sit in (he is a furry bugger) - really taken to Paddy for whatever reason and we have to check all the time as he is having a kip in him.
@@DrivenMadShow glad to hear, I was wondering if I’d backed the wrong horse with the petrol engine!
Do you have a link to the covers? Admired them in the videos and thought that was the later design (mines green and cream inside too),
Glad you’ve gone with the single colour on Paddy, I always think the silver and cream trim looked a bit unnatural! Looking forward to seeing more of it
Here you go Andy - www.autoshopaccessori.com/shop/?product_cat=fodere-coprisedili-su-misura
I also got a new sun visor for Paddy here - the seat covers are a bit of a faff to fit, but look like seats, rather than covers - no wear on Pete's - although I am not hard on cars in anyway really (except the clutch 😂 ), but I like them, think they look great.
Don't zoom in on our paintwork, although Nath is yet to cut and polish, its still untouched from the paint gun - must say, it took 10 years off it going for the one colour, the green in the sun is a stunning colour, that's saying something as I am really not a green colour fan.
I love the twinair, so cannot say you have the wrong one - Pete is knackered by the rev limiter, so fast starts are really flat - stupid, causes loads of issues off road as I need to rev the nuts off it ! - yet to test the 1.3 - it appears to be really poor torque wise, but we expected the 0-60 dash to show that weakness, so what do I know !
Think the 1.3 with 6 speed box would be the best allrounder for what its worth ! plus the fuel economy is unbelievable - drive as hard as you can (I have the speeding ticket to back it up) 55mpg - try stupidly hard I got 90mpg !! and its a 2008 ! impressive
@@DrivenMadShow Champion, thank you! I’ll give those a go, been sitting on an annoying Castrol one that came back from the garage one time.
The green really suits it (My 2013 is a similar colour) and props for doing it yourselves! A good mopping will have it looking good, overall it seems a tidy bus for a 14 year old car.
The later twinairs have a dual mass flywheel so probably not ideal to drag it, but once in a while it’s a good laugh
Love these cars , they are Brill
Paddy (the old one) is testing my patience - I want to go John Cleese on it :) --- if you are of a vintage to know 🤣
What does Brill mean? My English is not so good...
@@Felix-fy7ki Short for brilliant
@@DrivenMadShow Ok, never heard. Thanks!
They say Twin Air engine isn't run in for at least 5000 miles and doesn't loosen up. (on the Fiat Forum they say even more) so maybe not a fair race. My Twin Air has done 28,000 miles and is proper nippy now.
I got it new - done 19000 now - had 2 x oil service by me and a main dealer full service, so spoiled rotten oil wise.
The head tells me in every way the diesel is the better engine (sister-in-laws doblo went round the clock twice) yet the TA just fizzes, fuel economy does not really bother me, but both engines are so sweet, the 1.3 revs so well, I am still surprised how good a lump it is.
But, I expected the TA to monster the old smoker in every single way - as I drive them both, no one was more surprised than me !!
So it would be logical to expect that the 100hp 0.9 will again be slower than the 95hp 1.3. Good to know. I know which one to buy now. Thank you.
Like both engines, the twin sounds great, but drinks if pushed, the 1.3 is amazingly cheap to run, so wins on fuel and they are very strong units (timing chain not belt etc)
How much heavier is the new Panda to that!
Looking to up, not a lot, but the new one is a tad bigger vs the 1.3 heavier engine
The 1.3 Diesel is suuuch a good engine, I don't see the point of the TwinAir, just green-washing by Fiat
I totally agree, the economy, performance make it the perfect engine - reliable, cheap to maintain and run, what's not to like !
My wife's 4x4 is a TwinAir, it's running fine when you get used to the twin. Fuel consumption is another thing, it should be happy to consume at least 25% less with such a small engine. It's a LOT fun to drive anyway.
But we have a huge problem which I also found in the internet: The timing chain cover has a massive oil leak from the beginning which couldn't be fixed so far by our Fiat-dealer. He already tried it three times, but they always tried to seal it from the outside. A fourth and I hope successful attempt is scheduled for November 7th.
i guess the 1.3 diesel is the 75 BHP not the 95 BHP
Spot on, although a few of those horses have escaped😂
so a 75 BHp 1.3 diesel 4 X 4 is faster over a small distance than a 85 bhp twinair - i would struggle to believe that but i can see the evidence for myself .. both cars are 4x4?
😂 we both drove each to eliminate the driver and yes the old one was faster both times - we would have gambled the house that it would be the other way around ! The twinair feels and sounds much faster - the sweet spot is a deisel, tuned to 105hp - and you will see 5ltrs per 100km easily ( day to day, we saw 4 and were thrashing it). -- sorry, yes both 4x4 - both lack decent torque in the standard guise - and the old one is stock at 75hp no tune done (sold it now, regret it, should have tuned it)
So the diesel won't a true 1.3 mjet, it has been tuned up to 105... so really standard 1.3 diesel unturned really would have lost... so another interesting thought to share.. I have a 2012 chrysler ypisilon with the 1.3 diesel multi jet engine 95 bhp... 142k miles. Do you think it worth remapping 1st stage to 120 bhp ( the local tuners say possible Without risk of damage to gearbox/clutch ) . Or am I risking ruining a decent car with the high mileage. . I think the running gear on ghe ypsilon is basically the same as a fiat panda 🐼.
@@nobbygecko Sorry I didn’t explain very well. Our 1.3 Panda in this video is stock and 75hp but we think it would be seriously fun tuned to 105hp, as on forums that seems to be the perfect balance of power and reliability.
However 120hp from your car should make a huge difference to its performance. I don’t know much about tuning or your specific car but as long as has good service history and no known faults, then you should be fine.
Let us know what you do 👍
1.3 better
We agree