Very good explanation of a pretty confusing topic. After watching several videos on digital modes I am just now starting to put it all together in my mind. I still have a ways to go to understand enough to get a digital setup. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks this is great to have. I got into DMR as my first digital mode. In New England DMR is the most popular digital mode with solid coverage into the Canadian Maritimes.
As a new HAM upgrading from a UV5R, I am the proud owner of an AT878, and have been slogging my way through the digital/DMR learning curve. I have watched dozens of videos, read articles, and read the user manual. Your video definitely helps to connect-the-dots toward understanding how to program the radio (terminology) and how connections are made through digital radio networks.
The good thing about the System Fusion radios is they can be put into "Auto mode select" and switch between C4FM or FM without additional radio programming. Also, using a hotspot, we can cross-mode YSF to DMR/NXDN and P25. Currently using a hotspot, DMR can cross-mode to YSF and NXDN but not P25. It's great the way these modes are being crossed and bridged.
Great vid. I’m a ham that has been inactive for the past decade or so. Digital voice was just getting started when I went dark. I’m looking to get back into the hobby and plan to start my re-entry by modernizing my vhf/uhf equipment and exploring these and other new modes. Finding straightforward explanations of the various digital modes has been a challenge; too many videos and writings that are long on wind and short on useful information. Your video was a welcome change from this apparent norm.
1_lens_view Exactly.... could have been written by me. Sums it up just perfectly. Been away from the bands for 15 years . My oh my....what a large number of changes !!! Pascal... THANK YOU for this video..... it was very very useful to me... and I guess many new comers, or oldies like me ! 73 de Albert EI7II.
Very well explained for us non digital end users. 😂. My only issue with digital modes is the sound quality, but C4FM sounds like it has more better audio quality on the full voice bandwidth or “Digital Wide”
Great video and a great explanation of a somewhat complex technology. I haven't jumped into digital yet, but your advice is spot on: before I invest in a digital rig, I'll be checking with my other amateur buddies to see what they're using. Merci beaucoup!!!
Thanks for the video. I am deciding what digital mode should be for me in my VHF/UHF mobile radio. My first HT is a Anytone 878 DMR radio. It has excellent analog characteristics. The biggest problem with DMR is the complicated code plug. I am a former engineer and can program it but there are many layers to get it right. I have recently seen how easy it was to prepare a Yaesu FTM-400 for a trip where they just told the software what area to cover and told it to rename the3 repeaters with City names tags. If you are familiar with RFinder, that is the experience I would love to have. I agree with you that learning is fun in our hobby. Another thing is when at my parents in Northern Minnesota, I looked up DMR repeaters and there were none within 200 miles. There were System Fusion enabled repeaters in the small town they live in. So available repeaters where I travel and the ease of programming for various trips are important to me. Thanks again for your video, it is helpful to know the behind the scenes information or the why things are done the way they are. All the best, 73 de KI5HXM
Forget it stick to analogue!!! Modes within modes, compatability issues, goal posts keep moving, needing a new radio. No way .Thanks for the video and the info ,very good explanation.
Pascal, I truly appreciate the time, effort, and knowledge that you put into this video. Thank you very much. Having written that, I was frankly left not having a clue about what you were explaining. Sorry about that. But I wanted to pass along my feedback, which is obviously different than your other commenters. Please understand that I’m very technical. I first learned about TCP/IP networks from using packet radio in the early 90s, and I’ve been doing network implementation and network security since then. I understand computers, networks, ports, protocols and radios, both digital and analog. But your video left me baffled about digital voice modes. Fortunately, since watching it earlier today, I’ve viewed a bunch of YT videos on digital voice modes, and now I’m doing much better. One of the big things those other videos offered was diagrams that showed where the over-the-air digital radio links occurred versus what goes across the Internet. For me, that was key. They weren’t all good; even Yaesu’s explanation of Portable Digital Node versus Portable HRI node wasn’t great. But their operational diagrams helped me understand. So for example, with C4FM, I can now distinguish between having a digital handheld that works through a local repeater with a Wires-X connected node listening, versus using a digital handheld with local Hotspot, versus using a Yaseu radio connected to a PC that can act as a PDN. The key to that understanding for me was seeing, diagrammatically, the difference between radio links versus Internet links. And so I was able to come back to your presentation and make much more sense of what you were saying. Thank you again. A very small point that I feel terrible mentioning since your English is so excellent: the word “node” is pronounced with a long “NO-de” at the beginning like saying “NO, I disagree”. Sorry to mention it, but it made it harder for me to understand a key concept about C4FM. Thanks again for your great contributions to the hobby.
TNX, helped me understand the differences between the various modes and the terms used on the different systems. Just getting into digital so lots to learn, this was a good beginners basic explanation of digital radio.
You did help me very much. Now I know my Yeasu FT-70D will not get me into WiresX rooms. But I still can thru YSF from my FT-70. 🤷🏼 It is confusing but I’m getting it.
Very helpful Jason. Thanks and interestingly I picked up a used FT3D at Dayton a few weeks ago and am enjoying it. Saw you there but you were very busy with others wanting to have a 'qso.' Great videos and keep them going.
I’m studying and hope to take my Tech test within the week. So, I’m studying the different HTs to start off with. So, currently, I don’t have any friends in the Ham community, so I wouldn’t know which digital mode to choose based upon, “pick the one most of your friends use.” More helpful to a newbie like me is which system is easier to use, or has the most users, etc. Something more practical about each system, I’ll choose one, then make friends using it.
Hi Scott, this all depends of your budget. DMR radios are the cheapest, but the most difficult to operate. If you can, try to start with a more common radio like the FT-70DR from Yaesu (C4FM), they are not to expensive. 73
You did not explain digital voice versus analog, you began immediately with a good description of a digital system (Internet connected). Overall, a good presentation.
By reading a lot of these comments, I find a common question: "Can my radio talk to some other radio or some other repeater?" Removing these special talk groups and nodes and such, does it really matter what "type of digital" the radio is? Can they communicate with each other? That is what people want to know. One comment down below hit the nail on the head for MOST hams. MOST hams are not electrical engineers. Most just want to talk to each other. Albeit there are a FEW who thrive on electro-magic, most do not. The digital systems have complicated the understand needed by the average guy to the point of dis-interest. The best way I can describe the frustration is by using this illustration from my past: In the early part of the space race, the 1960s, the USA spent several months and millions of dollars developing a way for the astronauts to be able to take notes on their experiments and findings in space. The "Space Pen" was the end result of a several months long project. The space pen used a pressurized ink chamber which was activated by clicking the top of the pen making the writing end of the pen protrude (just like any ball point pen). The pressurized ink was able to flow out onto the paper and make a mark (which was the sought after result). The Russians solved this same problem by using a pencil. Simple as that. This is how I see digital ham radio. Just look at how many videos some of the people who commented here had to watch before they began to get a basic understand of this mess (not a full understanding). Its much like reading the pamphlet the Game Department writes to attempt to describe their poorly written fishing regulations.
Explanation is good if you already know it .... and you want to refresh .. Kudo's but for Newbs ... Totally Confusing :) Just saying .... needed more samples and comparisons of explanation of DMR Tier 1 and Tier 2 ... reflectors as repeaters ... C4FM too much money involved but it's FUN !! Thanks men
Merci beaucoup, Pascal! I've been reading about these things for so long, but I still didn't understand it all until I heard your explanation. Now it doesn't seem so frightening! 73 de K1RSK.
Pascal - Great job! Thank you - very informative. I noticed that you used the DV4mini control panel software to demonstrate the different system connections. Would really appreciate if you could make a video to demonstrate some of the specifics of operating the DV4mini Control Panel in the various modes with specific radios. You are absolutely right that the enjoyment in digital is mastering the learning and making it work to be able to talk to Hams all over the globe. Keep up the great work. Jack
Hi Jack, thanks for your good comments and suggestions. Did you look at some of my previous videos? There's a lot of them on the DV4mini, but there is none with all the modes with the hotspot, maybe in the future. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Yes Pascal I have watched them all - helped me decide to buy a DV4mini - I find the operating instructions tell you what each function does but not why and so what. You must be busy so just letting you know your work is appreciated and very helpful 73 Cheers
Excellent explanation of all the digital stuff. Thanks to your video, it's starting to make a little sense. SOOO many digital versions with SOOO many options. Cheech! Whuda mess! You can't seem to talk to anyone anywhere who can do a "hands-on" to better understand to see how stuff works and understand strengths & weaknesses of this whole mess of systems and how to navigate around it all. Thanks! 73's -N0COJ
You're right if it rely only on Internet, but some repeater are linked together using microwave technogies over IP, then it's different. But we need to remember that the repeater is also able to handle local communication without the Internet. Thank you, for watching. 73 Pascal VA2PV
What an amazing video! Thanks so much for sharing! I have a DMR Radio and wonder if I got a DV4MINI would I be able to talk on C4FM and D Star with my DMR radio? Thanks again! Subscribed!
Hi Matthew, Thanks for your comment. With the DV4mini you can't crossmode between DMR and C4FM. With the OpenSPOT you do, DMR and C4FM only, no D-Star. See the video below. th-cam.com/video/A_hadjIomPM/w-d-xo.html 73 Pascal VA2PV
Bonjour Pascal. Merci pour ce travail d'explications sur les différents modes numériques. En effet, pas facile de résumer tout cela, surtout en DMR avec les différents réseaux, Talk Groups, réflecteurs et passerelles entre les modes. Je suis moi même utilisateur de ces modes avec plusieurs hotspots, MMDVM, DVMega, DV4mini et DV4Home et suis toujours très intéressé par tes vidéos qui sont vraiment bien réalisées. Bravo pour ce travail et au plaisir de faire QSO ensemble un de ces jours. On pourrait discuter des heures je pense... Hi. Bonne fin de journée. Pascal F5UAB
The trouble with digital is that, far from bringing hams together from around the world, everyone has fragmented into their own little cliques, all isolated or only linked to places they allow. 20 years ago, with D-Star, I could enter a friends callsign, key the ptt, and the system would automatically route a call to him via the network. Now after all these years, that still isn't possible with DMR, it has fragmented into a muddled mess of thousands of reflectors and tens of thousands of talkgroups, a few of these may cross link with D-Star, and even fewer might cross link with Fusion. It seems the vast majority of hams near me in the UK only use the local DMR repeaters as local only..as if it was an un-linked analogue repeater, in fact most complain of foreigners hogging the repeater. Its all quite sad, it held so much promise, but with thousand upon thousands of talk-groups and reflectors, most hardly used at all, repeaters also getting used less and less, the whole system has become unmanageable, confusing and WAAAY too complex for the bulk of hams out there. DMR-Marc, DMR+, Phoenix, this little DMR group, that DMR group...this repeater linked to one reflector, this repeater linked to another...but this one is connected, but only if the month has an R in it... More and more repeaters are struggling to cover running costs after jumping on the digital bandwagon, hardly any users now, and more and more are closing for good....they should've stuck with FM.
Hi, with the multiple modes and reflectors it's true that the activity is deluded. The digital modes brought the possibility to link repeaters easily and worldwide. It also brought something else, in the past I was using the local repeaters for local communications with my friends, but now we have people calling CQ from anywhere around the world using the digital network and I personally don't like being interrupted for a CQ? It's not like HF, this should be avoided. Anyway, still we have the possibility to discover new things and that's the part I like. 73 Pascal VA2PV
@@Laboenligne Seems around here the vast majority of hams use the internet linked repeaters, open to the world...as strictly local chat boxes...as an analogue type repeater...but with more expensive gear, ah well...back to the drawing board..
This all sounds complicated but extremely fascinating. However, if there is no Internet available, it seems these modes would not work. Is there a digital mode not dependent on the Internet? Excuse me, I am not an amateur radio operator. But, I am very interested in digital modes.
True, repeaters are also standalone, but it's just a different way to have more technical challenge, it's also more hi-tech in the eyes of younger ham, and we need something to attrack them into the hobby. 73
Excellent video on explanation of the different digital modes. Few questions... 1. I have the FT-70DR radio, and am waiting for my zumspot to arrive. Once it does, i supposedly will be able to connect to a friends fusion repeater in another state, using zumspot via the internet... i think? 2. @15:15 you mention "the 2nd part of the channel is used for data"... What type of data? 3. @14:49 you mention 2 time slots. My question is this...Can the Fusion repeater format have 2 separate conversations on 1 physical repeater, 6.25kHz(conversation1), 6.25kHz(conversation2) ?
Hi, her’s the answers to your questions. 1. The answer is yes if there is another hotspot at the eepeater end. See my following video. th-cam.com/video/BYfqy86CL5E/w-d-xo.html 2. In DN (digital narrow) it use 6.25kHz and the extra 6.25kHz is used for data. Lime Wires-x news, photos and gps info. 3. C4FM do not use TDMA like DMR, it’s always a channel of 12.5kHz all station are always heard either in DN or VW (voice wide). If you are in DN and somebody check in in VW your radio will switch automatically in DN while receving the station. Hope this help. 73 Pascal VA2PV
I was not sure if I should upload it at first since it was longer than expected and didn't seem to be simple explanation with a 20 minutes long video. Your comment reassures me, thank you. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Hi, very nice intro to DMR. One point, however, the Kenwood D-74 is actually a Tri-band radio with Analog and Digital modes using both Tier I and Tier II. Time Domain Multiple Access. C4FM is specific to Yesau brand equipment. Very good. You might mention the Nano-Spot for full four-way communication. You might also mention that what you may like on paper looks good to you if there is no reflector or hotspot you are out-of-luck.
Hi Thomas, the Kenwood TH-D74 is indeed a tribander but not a DMR radio, it's support one digital mode which is D-Star. I know I did mix up the TDMA description, because of my job, with TDM (time division multiplexing). There's so much acronym in telecom, no wonder we mix them up, hihi. See my original description of the video I stated, "If you listen carefully, you will notice that I’ve made some definition mistakes will describe it!" 73 Pascal VA2PV
Overall you did a very good job. I personally hope that Kenwood will come out with a D-74Plus that will handle general DMR as well. For what they charge for it I would have thought that they would have included it in version one. Everyone who has one or who talked to someone who has one has said what good audio it has. but for $600 in the states, I think some of that might be in self-justification on dropping that much for an HT. Perhaps China will do it for less and Kenwood will drop their prices. 73
Hi Thomas, DMR generates so much exchange but it makes amateur radio interesting. See other threads. I have the TH-D74 and it's the best HT I ever had, but it's expensive as well. I've made a full video series about this unit and also the QST review, see the link below. 73 Pascal VA2PV www.va2pv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/QST-Kenwood_TH-D74-Review_VA2PV-April_2017.pdf
Hi Pascal. Thanks for the link. Yes, the TH-74 is a good rig, I just want it to do more for the money. I wish that there was some way that Kenwood could come up with a Plus model that would work with conventional DMR radios as well. Now if I was a really good hardware and software engineer, I would incorporate a Nano-Pico as well so I could use all of those memories and communicate with everybody. This thing that Yesaue did with wires was wrong. That "N.I.H. " nonsense has got to stop. I feel that it is fragmenting the ham community into finer and finer segments is wrong. Instead of focusing research dollars on what we can do differently and carve out a customer base of increasingly fewer and fewer hams is bad for the hobby. 73 NO3NO
Hi Thomas, the fact that there are a lot of modes and reflectors is not a bad thing in some ways, but it's true that it dilutes the activities. There are as many reflectors as there are active hams, hihi. I strongly beleive that at some point one modes will win over the other, will see. 73
Excellent video on explanation of the different digital modes. I have an FT-991A for C4FM and I am thinking of buying a TH-D74E and an Anytone AT-D878UV for the D-Star and the other for DMR, and it is sometimes difficult to understand everything thanks for the beautiful video back
I didn’t understand anything, apologies. From your explanation and initial sketch, digital networks seem to be indistinguishable from VoIP, with the exception that the internet wireless router is outdoor in a (local) physical radio repeater or indoor. In this view, which I am sure I misunderstood, a handheld is nothing more than an internet client (as Skype is). However I know that this is not the case. I played with Echolink and understood it was a mixed, radio and VoIp network, where nodes could be on radio waves as well as through the internet.
Learning is part of living. It's how I avoid turning into a tree stump. System Fusion really appeals to me, but repeater coverage is better in my area for D-Star. I will probably end up both eventually, but D-Star 1st.
Each digital mode has its pros can cons, just do a little research on what is best for your application and needs. At the end of the day, you're basically translating analog to digital communications via TCP/IP. ;)
Praise for the beautiful explanation , I have delightfully subscribed to your channel and thank you for all the efforts placed to make digital variety understandable for everybody. All the best 73' Rob 9J2RD
It is ...... it's a bit confusing if you don't know the infrastructure of it ..... because there's 1. DMR Repeater 2. DMR Reflector as in Reflector is Internet and Repeater is on a Mountain Top .... That's basically it really ....
Your information at 8:24 about Tier 1 DMR is wrong. It is NOT 6.25KHz. It's exactly like Tier 2 DMR except it does not use repeaters and it may transmit continuously (so not turning on and off like a tier 2 radio). dPMR is a completely different standard and not at all the same thing as tier 1 DMR.
Hi, I don’t want to start an argument, but unless I don’t understand correctly the ETSI standard, DMR Tier I is referred as “Digital PMR446”. But I do understand the reason why you don’t qualify it as DMR, since it’s reserved for low-power units meant for the general public. Another confusing term of DMR. You are right about this part since it's FDMA " it does not use repeaters and it may transmit continuously". Just in case the viewers have any doubt, the paragraph below was extracted directly of an ETSI standard official document, ETSI TR 102 398 v1.3.1. Called “Electromagnetic compatibility and Radio spectrum Matters (ERM); Digital Mobile Radio (DMR), General System Design”. “There are three tiers of DMR equipment: • tier I equipment is for the lowest-cost "digital PMR446" application; • tier II is for professional market offering peer-to-peer mode and repeater mode; and • tier III is for trunked operation. DMR tier II and tier III products encompass both simulcast and non-simulcast systems. The present document describes a Digital Mobile Radio (DMR) system for tier II and tier III products which employs a Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) technology with a 2-slot TDMA solution and RF carrier bandwidth of 12,5 kHz. Additionally, a DMR system for tier I products is described which employs a continuous transmission variation (FDMA) of the above-mentioned technology.” Ok so this paragraph clear it that it's part of DMR. Here's the link of the document. www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/102300_102399/102398/01.03.01_60/tr_102398v010301p.pdf There’s also a specific ETSI Digital Private Mobile Radio (DPMR) document stating that it use FDMA with a channel spacing of 6.25kHz. See the the link below. www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102400_102499/102490/01.09.01_60/ts_102490v010901p.pdf There's also the website below that offer simple explanation with links to the ETSI documents. www.dmrassociation.org/dmr-standards.html Thanks for the opportunity to clarify the terms for everyone. 73 Pascal VA2PV
It is quite confusing and I can totally understand that it's easy to make a mistake with this. I only made my comment to stop everybody from being even more confused by it. Digital PMR446 is not only one mode. Both DMR and dPMR are allowed to be used on PMR446 frequencies. Both of these are digital PMR446 but both are different. dPMR is a mode that has a tier just for PMR446 called dPMR446, and also has separate tiers for repeater use and for trunking, the same as DMR. DMR has tier 1 for just PMR446, and it has tier 2 and 3 which are repeater and trunking use. DMR is always 12.5KHz and can never be 6.25KHz. It can only be 6.25KHz equivalent, by use of the two timeslots which allows each voice call to take the equivalent of 6.25KHz by using half the time on a 12.5KHz channel. dPMR is always 6.25KHz and FDMA. The documents you have linked to are talking about dPMR, not DMR. They are two completely different standards, like P25 and NXDN. Or like D-STAR and Yaesu Fusion. Not related at all, except that they are both made by ETSI. But so are many standards like TETRA too.
There are two documents in reference, the DMR document, say tier I is "digital PMR446 and FDMA" and in the DPMR document they refer at some point to "Digital PMR 446". But on the dmrassociation.org website they describe DMR tier 1 "DMR Tier I products are for license-free use in the 446MHz band", but don't call it DPMR. So yes, this is very confusing for everyone, I wonder if we are confusing technology vs service? To keep it simple, I strongly suggest to the viewers to read this article publish in the QST of October 2015 edition, it's called “Introduction to Digital Mobile Radio (DMR)” by John S. Burningham, W2XAB. He also describes DMR Tier I as dPMR446 and that it's FDMA with 6.25kHz bandwidth (see page 30). There's also no point to argue about it, hihi, since to a certain degree we are saying about the same thing but in different ways. So let's concentrate on tier II, the most important one for which we seem to agree, hihi. By the way, I'm a subscriber of your channel ;-) Are exchanges shows how and why DMR is so confusing, but its fun, isn't it ? 73 and thanks for being a good sport.
I hope you don't get the wrong impression. I don't want to argue with you either, but there is a lot of confusion about these digital standards and I just try to clear it up whenever I see a mistake. It is not meant as a criticism of you, I just want to help make sure that everyone understands these standards. I could not manage to open the QST article that you mentioned, but if he said that DMR tier 1 is dPMR446 then he is wrong. I'm not sure if we are confusing service and technology here. dPMR446 is a technology, like DMR tier 1. The service is PMR446 (which is the European equivalent of FRS) which allows three modes to be used: dPMR (specifically called dPMR446), DMR (specifically DMR tier 1), and FM. dPMR is FDMA and 6.25KHz. DMR is normally TDMA however for tier 1, radios are allowed to use "continuous transmission mode" which means that is is essentially FDMA, but it's still 12.5KHz, never 6.25KHz. Have a look on page 5 of this document. Maybe it explains it better: kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/files/file/comms/uk/pmr446/PMR446-White-Paper-V6_18AUG2016_JT_KB.pdf I hope this helps
I couldn’t help it, I was very curious about this as there are some inconstancy between dPMR and Digital PMR, I search the web last night hoping to find a clear answer, side by side, without any luck. The only thing I found was that they all refer to PMR446. The same band, same usage and everybody thinks dPMR, me included, stand for digital PMR. WOW. I was gonna ask you if you had any document about this and when I got back from work there was your link. This document clears it for good, you are right to say that dPMR is not DMR tier I, but Digital PMR446 can be Tier I DMR. That is the differences between the two. What a confusion, we are not the first one to have exchanges about this, most people are confused. Thanks for clearing it out. The last line below is what the users need to know that dPMR and DMR tier I are not compatible in digital mode. I will add the info below in the video comments. By the way what’s your name? Call sign? 73 Pascal VA2PV Correction 8:24 (thanks to radiosification), I'm also a good sport ;-) For DMR users, here's some details about DMR Tier I vs dPMR. The new 446.0-446.2MHz extended frequency spectrum will double the number of license-free PMR446 channels available for equipment operating at 12.5 kHz and 6.25 kHz channel spacing: • Analogue* equipment which can only operate on 12.5 kHz channel spacing increases from 8 to 16 channels • DMR Tier 1** digital PMR446 which operates on 12.5 kHz channel spacing with a Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) channel access method increases from 8 to 16 channels • dPMR446** digital PMR446 equipment which operates on 6.25 kHz channel spacing with a Frequency Division Multiple Access (FDMA) channel access method increases from 16 to 32 channels ** Due to their different channel access methods, DMR Tier 1 and dPMR446 digital equipment are not compatible with each other when operating in digital mode.
@@PoliceCams Your welcome and thanks for watching. Yes you can use hotspot on all digital modes, D-Star, DMR, C4FM, some (OpenSPOT 2) can transcode between DMR and C4FM. 73 Pascal VA2PV
@@PoliceCams Oh I forgot one question, yes this can tie up repeater if it's linked to a reflector meaning that you don't have to be local to use the repeater. You can actually use a European repeater while being physically in New York. But there is so much reflector type and modes that usually it's not a problem. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Hi, I understand, sometimes I only realized after that I didn't cover an angle. Maybe this video can be helpful. th-cam.com/video/BYfqy86CL5E/w-d-xo.html Keep in mind that a digital hotspot will let you connect to reflector via the Internet. So, a reflector is similar to a repeater but in the Internet IP world. 73 Pascal VA2PV
How to Configure your MMDVM Pi-Star HotSpot for DV Scotland DMR Network IPSC2-DVScotland. This will allow users either in Scotland or other parts of the World to link in to our system to join in the IRN NETWORK NETS and to also take part in our Monday Night Net Configure your radio with HotSpot Frequency and Time Slot 2. List of DV Scotland DMR Network Talk Groups: www.dvscotland.net/talkgroups.xhtml How to configure static Talk Groups. DMR Configuration DMR Master: DMR+_IPSC2-DVScotland DMR+ Options: Options= TS2_1=23555;TS2_2=23556; th-cam.com/video/xBLIC9sMp8c/w-d-xo.html
Actually Yaesu is no longer allowed to use the term C4FM as that belongs to P25. yaesu has a different modulation then the real C4FM which is the P25 Standard.
Very good explanation of a pretty confusing topic. After watching several videos on digital modes I am just now starting to put it all together in my mind. I still have a ways to go to understand enough to get a digital setup. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks this is great to have. I got into DMR as my first digital mode. In New England DMR is the most popular digital mode with solid coverage into the Canadian Maritimes.
As a new HAM upgrading from a UV5R, I am the proud owner of an AT878, and have been slogging my way through the digital/DMR learning curve. I have watched dozens of videos, read articles, and read the user manual. Your video definitely helps to connect-the-dots toward understanding how to program the radio (terminology) and how connections are made through digital radio networks.
The good thing about the System Fusion radios is they can be put into "Auto mode select" and switch between C4FM or FM without additional radio programming. Also, using a hotspot, we can cross-mode YSF to DMR/NXDN and P25. Currently using a hotspot, DMR can cross-mode to YSF and NXDN but not P25. It's great the way these modes are being crossed and bridged.
Great vid. I’m a ham that has been inactive for the past decade or so. Digital voice was just getting started when I went dark. I’m looking to get back into the hobby and plan to start my re-entry by modernizing my vhf/uhf equipment and exploring these and other new modes. Finding straightforward explanations of the various digital modes has been a challenge; too many videos and writings that are long on wind and short on useful information. Your video was a welcome change from this apparent norm.
1_lens_view Exactly.... could have been written by me. Sums it up just perfectly. Been away from the bands for 15 years . My oh my....what a large number of changes !!! Pascal... THANK YOU for this video..... it was very very useful to me... and I guess many new comers, or oldies like me !
73 de Albert EI7II.
Awesome explanation of the different digital modes!
Thank you Brad. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Very well explained for us non digital end users. 😂. My only issue with digital modes is the sound quality, but C4FM sounds like it has more better audio quality on the full voice bandwidth or “Digital Wide”
Very comprehensive overview and breakdown of each mode. Great audio, lighting and video quality too.
Great video and a great explanation of a somewhat complex technology. I haven't jumped into digital yet, but your advice is spot on: before I invest in a digital rig, I'll be checking with my other amateur buddies to see what they're using. Merci beaucoup!!!
Thanks for the video. I am deciding what digital mode should be for me in my VHF/UHF mobile radio. My first HT is a Anytone 878 DMR radio. It has excellent analog characteristics. The biggest problem with DMR is the complicated code plug. I am a former engineer and can program it but there are many layers to get it right. I have recently seen how easy it was to prepare a Yaesu FTM-400 for a trip where they just told the software what area to cover and told it to rename the3 repeaters with City names tags. If you are familiar with RFinder, that is the experience I would love to have. I agree with you that learning is fun in our hobby. Another thing is when at my parents in Northern Minnesota, I looked up DMR repeaters and there were none within 200 miles. There were System Fusion enabled repeaters in the small town they live in. So available repeaters where I travel and the ease of programming for various trips are important to me. Thanks again for your video, it is helpful to know the behind the scenes information or the why things are done the way they are. All the best, 73 de KI5HXM
Forget it stick to analogue!!! Modes within modes, compatability issues, goal posts keep moving, needing a new radio. No way .Thanks for the video and the info ,very good explanation.
Its only designed to save bandwidth.. So the fcc can sell ham bands off to cell phone companies
Hey Pascal, that's the best explanation of digital modes currently 73's
Pascal, I truly appreciate the time, effort, and knowledge that you put into this video. Thank you very much.
Having written that, I was frankly left not having a clue about what you were explaining. Sorry about that. But I wanted to pass along my feedback, which is obviously different than your other commenters.
Please understand that I’m very technical. I first learned about TCP/IP networks from using packet radio in the early 90s, and I’ve been doing network implementation and network security since then. I understand computers, networks, ports, protocols and radios, both digital and analog.
But your video left me baffled about digital voice modes.
Fortunately, since watching it earlier today, I’ve viewed a bunch of YT videos on digital voice modes, and now I’m doing much better.
One of the big things those other videos offered was diagrams that showed where the over-the-air digital radio links occurred versus what goes across the Internet. For me, that was key.
They weren’t all good; even Yaesu’s explanation of Portable Digital Node versus Portable HRI node wasn’t great. But their operational diagrams helped me understand.
So for example, with C4FM, I can now distinguish between having a digital handheld that works through a local repeater with a Wires-X connected node listening, versus using a digital handheld with local Hotspot, versus using a Yaseu radio connected to a PC that can act as a PDN. The key to that understanding for me was seeing, diagrammatically, the difference between radio links versus Internet links.
And so I was able to come back to your presentation and make much more sense of what you were saying. Thank you again.
A very small point that I feel terrible mentioning since your English is so excellent: the word “node” is pronounced with a long “NO-de” at the beginning like saying “NO, I disagree”. Sorry to mention it, but it made it harder for me to understand a key concept about C4FM.
Thanks again for your great contributions to the hobby.
TNX, helped me understand the differences between the various modes and the terms used on the different systems. Just getting into digital so lots to learn, this was a good beginners basic explanation of digital radio.
Thanks for watching Bob. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Thank you I’ll be looking for something like this for a long time. Thank you for putting it together.
You did help me very much. Now I know my Yeasu FT-70D will not get me into WiresX rooms. But I still can thru YSF from my FT-70. 🤷🏼 It is confusing but I’m getting it.
Very helpful Jason. Thanks and interestingly I picked up a used FT3D at Dayton a few weeks ago and am enjoying it. Saw you there but you were very busy with others wanting to have a 'qso.' Great videos and keep them going.
I’m studying and hope to take my Tech test within the week. So, I’m studying the different HTs to start off with. So, currently, I don’t have any friends in the Ham community, so I wouldn’t know which digital mode to choose based upon, “pick the one most of your friends use.” More helpful to a newbie like me is which system is easier to use, or has the most users, etc. Something more practical about each system, I’ll choose one, then make friends using it.
Hi Scott, this all depends of your budget. DMR radios are the cheapest, but the most difficult to operate. If you can, try to start with a more common radio like the FT-70DR from Yaesu (C4FM), they are not to expensive. 73
You did not explain digital voice versus analog, you began immediately with a good description of a digital system (Internet connected). Overall, a good presentation.
By reading a lot of these comments, I find a common question: "Can my radio talk to some other radio or some other repeater?" Removing these special talk groups and nodes and such, does it really matter what "type of digital" the radio is? Can they communicate with each other? That is what people want to know. One comment down below hit the nail on the head for MOST hams. MOST hams are not electrical engineers.
Most just want to talk to each other. Albeit there are a FEW who thrive on electro-magic, most do not. The digital systems have complicated the understand needed by the average guy to the point of dis-interest. The best way I can describe the frustration is by using this illustration from my past: In the early part of the space race, the 1960s, the USA spent several months and millions of dollars developing a way for the astronauts to be able to take notes on their experiments and findings in space.
The "Space Pen" was the end result of a several months long project. The space pen used a pressurized ink chamber which was activated by clicking the top of the pen making the writing end of the pen protrude (just like any ball point pen). The pressurized ink was able to flow out onto the paper and make a mark (which was the sought after result). The Russians solved this same problem by using a pencil. Simple as that. This is how I see digital ham radio.
Just look at how many videos some of the people who commented here had to watch before they began to get a basic understand of this mess (not a full understanding). Its much like reading the pamphlet the Game Department writes to attempt to describe their poorly written fishing regulations.
Explanation is good if you already know it .... and you want to refresh .. Kudo's but for Newbs ... Totally Confusing :) Just saying .... needed more samples and comparisons of explanation of DMR Tier 1 and Tier 2 ... reflectors as repeaters ... C4FM too much money involved but it's FUN !! Thanks men
Merci beaucoup, Pascal! I've been reading about these things for so long, but I still didn't understand it all until I heard your explanation. Now it doesn't seem so frightening! 73 de K1RSK.
Thank you for the feedback, glad it was helpful. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Thank you very much for your video. It is so confusing: it's ridiculous. You narrowed it down considerably. Thanks.
That's part of the fun isnt' it ;-) 73
Incredibly explanation😲🙏🏻🙏🏻💥. You are very skill❗️🙏🏻😲. Absolutely Thanks and Congratulations from Milano, in north of Italy🙏🏻
Great video! Count me out for DMR, it's too crazy. You have saved me time and money - thank you!
Thank you for your video. It does offer some clarification.
Thanks for watching. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Pascal - Great job! Thank you - very informative. I noticed that you used the DV4mini control panel software to demonstrate the different system connections. Would really appreciate if you could make a video to demonstrate some of the specifics of operating the DV4mini Control Panel in the various modes with specific radios. You are absolutely right that the enjoyment in digital is mastering the learning and making it work to be able to talk to Hams all over the globe. Keep up the great work. Jack
Hi Jack, thanks for your good comments and suggestions. Did you look at some of my previous videos? There's a lot of them on the DV4mini, but there is none with all the modes with the hotspot, maybe in the future. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Yes Pascal I have watched them all - helped me decide to buy a DV4mini - I find the operating instructions tell you what each function does but not why and so what. You must be busy so just letting you know your work is appreciated and very helpful 73 Cheers
Excellent explanation of all the digital stuff. Thanks to your video, it's starting to make a little sense. SOOO many digital versions with SOOO many options. Cheech! Whuda mess! You can't seem to talk to anyone anywhere who can do a "hands-on" to better understand to see how stuff works and understand strengths & weaknesses of this whole mess of systems and how to navigate around it all. Thanks! 73's -N0COJ
Also, have been looking at a DVMega Cast to work on some of this stuff.
Great explanation, but I agree with so many ham's out there. digital mode is not a reliable solution for when it all goes down.
You're right if it rely only on Internet, but some repeater are linked together using microwave technogies over IP, then it's different. But we need to remember that the repeater is also able to handle local communication without the Internet. Thank you, for watching. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Clearly, HF is the best solution for an apocalyptic type event...
except perhaps for an EMP .
Very interesting video. I am from Montevideo, URUGUAY, CX3BU, 73'. Hope you are still on the aire ( TH-cam). Thank you very much.
What an amazing video! Thanks so much for sharing! I have a DMR Radio and wonder if I got a DV4MINI would I be able to talk on C4FM and D Star with my DMR radio? Thanks again! Subscribed!
Hi Matthew, Thanks for your comment. With the DV4mini you can't crossmode between DMR and C4FM. With the OpenSPOT you do, DMR and C4FM only, no D-Star. See the video below.
th-cam.com/video/A_hadjIomPM/w-d-xo.html
73 Pascal VA2PV
Thanks, man. This was really needed. Bon journee!
So far, the best digital mode is Echolink because you can use any radio and it is easy to learn and use.
Excellent explanation for beginners. Thanks Pascal
Many Thanks for your time with this.VK4FABS Pete
Thank you nice breakdown of the different systems.
Bonjour Pascal. Merci pour ce travail d'explications sur les différents modes numériques. En effet, pas facile de résumer tout cela, surtout en DMR avec les différents réseaux, Talk Groups, réflecteurs et passerelles entre les modes. Je suis moi même utilisateur de ces modes avec plusieurs hotspots, MMDVM, DVMega, DV4mini et DV4Home et suis toujours très intéressé par tes vidéos qui sont vraiment bien réalisées. Bravo pour ce travail et au plaisir de faire QSO ensemble un de ces jours. On pourrait discuter des heures je pense... Hi. Bonne fin de journée. Pascal F5UAB
The trouble with digital is that, far from bringing hams together from around the world, everyone has fragmented into their own little cliques, all isolated or only linked to places they allow.
20 years ago, with D-Star, I could enter a friends callsign, key the ptt, and the system would automatically route a call to him via the network.
Now after all these years, that still isn't possible with DMR, it has fragmented into a muddled mess of thousands of reflectors and tens of thousands of talkgroups, a few of these may cross link with D-Star, and even fewer might cross link with Fusion.
It seems the vast majority of hams near me in the UK only use the local DMR repeaters as local only..as if it was an un-linked analogue repeater, in fact most complain of foreigners hogging the repeater.
Its all quite sad, it held so much promise, but with thousand upon thousands of talk-groups and reflectors, most hardly used at all, repeaters also getting used less and less, the whole system has become unmanageable, confusing and WAAAY too complex for the bulk of hams out there.
DMR-Marc, DMR+, Phoenix, this little DMR group, that DMR group...this repeater linked to one reflector, this repeater linked to another...but this one is connected, but only if the month has an R in it...
More and more repeaters are struggling to cover running costs after jumping on the digital bandwagon, hardly any users now, and more and more are closing for good....they should've stuck with FM.
Hi, with the multiple modes and reflectors it's true that the activity is deluded. The digital modes brought the possibility to link repeaters easily and worldwide. It also brought something else, in the past I was using the local repeaters for local communications with my friends, but now we have people calling CQ from anywhere around the world using the digital network and I personally don't like being interrupted for a CQ? It's not like HF, this should be avoided. Anyway, still we have the possibility to discover new things and that's the part I like. 73 Pascal VA2PV
@@Laboenligne Seems around here the vast majority of hams use the internet linked repeaters, open to the world...as strictly local chat boxes...as an analogue type repeater...but with more expensive gear, ah well...back to the drawing board..
Thank you for your adequate explanation
This all sounds complicated but extremely fascinating. However, if there is no Internet available, it seems these modes would not work. Is there a digital mode not dependent on the Internet? Excuse me, I am not an amateur radio operator. But, I am very interested in digital modes.
Great video! That is why I don't bother with digital, the whole point of radio communication is to NOT rely on the Internet
True, repeaters are also standalone, but it's just a different way to have more technical challenge, it's also more hi-tech in the eyes of younger ham, and we need something to attrack them into the hobby. 73
Excellent video on explanation of the different digital modes.
Few questions...
1. I have the FT-70DR radio, and am waiting for my zumspot to arrive. Once it does, i supposedly will be able to connect to a friends fusion repeater in another state, using zumspot via the internet... i think?
2. @15:15 you mention "the 2nd part of the channel is used for data"... What type of data?
3. @14:49 you mention 2 time slots. My question is this...Can the Fusion repeater format have 2 separate conversations on 1 physical repeater, 6.25kHz(conversation1), 6.25kHz(conversation2) ?
Hi, her’s the answers to your questions.
1. The answer is yes if there is another hotspot at the eepeater end. See my following video. th-cam.com/video/BYfqy86CL5E/w-d-xo.html
2. In DN (digital narrow) it use 6.25kHz and the extra 6.25kHz is used for data. Lime Wires-x news, photos and gps info.
3. C4FM do not use TDMA like DMR, it’s always a channel of 12.5kHz all station are always heard either in DN or VW (voice wide). If you are in DN and somebody check in in VW your radio will switch automatically in DN while receving the station.
Hope this help.
73 Pascal VA2PV
Great video, thanks for sharing!!
Hi Pascal, this is one of the best overviews I have seen. Thank you and 73 w1nga
I was not sure if I should upload it at first since it was longer than expected and didn't seem to be simple explanation with a 20 minutes long video. Your comment reassures me, thank you. 73 Pascal VA2PV
thanks great job very informative and profesional thanks very much 73
Great breakdown, thank you!!
Fantastic explanation, thank you so much!
I have All Digital Modes with My Open Spot 4 both Yeasu FT5D and Alinco DJ-MD5X DMR HT!
I can't find any information on Fusion on the internet???
Hi, very nice intro to DMR. One point, however, the Kenwood D-74 is actually a Tri-band radio with Analog and Digital modes using both Tier I and Tier II. Time Domain Multiple Access. C4FM is specific to Yesau brand equipment. Very good. You might mention the Nano-Spot for full four-way communication. You might also mention that what you may like on paper looks good to you if there is no reflector or hotspot you are out-of-luck.
Hi Thomas, the Kenwood TH-D74 is indeed a tribander but not a DMR radio, it's support one digital mode which is D-Star. I know I did mix up the TDMA description, because of my job, with TDM (time division multiplexing). There's so much acronym in telecom, no wonder we mix them up, hihi. See my original description of the video I stated, "If you listen carefully, you will notice that I’ve made some definition mistakes will describe it!" 73 Pascal VA2PV
Overall you did a very good job. I personally hope that Kenwood will come out with a D-74Plus that will handle general DMR as well. For what they charge for it I would have thought that they would have included it in version one. Everyone who has one or who talked to someone who has one has said what good audio it has. but for $600 in the states, I think some of that might be in self-justification on dropping that much for an HT. Perhaps China will do it for less and Kenwood will drop their prices. 73
Hi Thomas, DMR generates so much exchange but it makes amateur radio interesting. See other threads. I have the TH-D74 and it's the best HT I ever had, but it's expensive as well. I've made a full video series about this unit and also the QST review, see the link below. 73 Pascal VA2PV
www.va2pv.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/QST-Kenwood_TH-D74-Review_VA2PV-April_2017.pdf
Hi Pascal. Thanks for the link. Yes, the TH-74 is a good rig, I just want it to do more for the money. I wish that there was some way that Kenwood could come up with a Plus model that would work with conventional DMR radios as well. Now if I was a really good hardware and software engineer, I would incorporate a Nano-Pico as well so I could use all of those memories and communicate with everybody. This thing that Yesaue did with wires was wrong. That "N.I.H. " nonsense has got to stop. I feel that it is fragmenting the ham community into finer and finer segments is wrong. Instead of focusing research dollars on what we can do differently and carve out a customer base of increasingly fewer and fewer hams is bad for the hobby. 73 NO3NO
Hi Thomas, the fact that there are a lot of modes and reflectors is not a bad thing in some ways, but it's true that it dilutes the activities. There are as many reflectors as there are active hams, hihi. I strongly beleive that at some point one modes will win over the other, will see. 73
Thanks Pascal - much appreciated!
Excellent video on explanation of the different digital modes.
I have an FT-991A for C4FM and I am thinking of buying a TH-D74E and an Anytone AT-D878UV for the D-Star and the other for DMR, and it is sometimes difficult to understand everything thanks for the beautiful video back
Thanks GREAT info.
Nice explanation! On C4FM, when you said "nod", you mean "node"?
Thanks for watching. Yes "node". 73 Pascal VA2PV
lol
Digital networks seem to have fragmented hams into lots of different groups.
So my view, it's kind of destructive in a way.
DMR is hands down the easiest system to understand. Simplest and most logical system imho.
curious, what kind of antenna are you using on you kenwood 74D? it looks really short. can you give me the name brand of this antenna please?
Thanks as always, very helpful.
I didn’t understand anything, apologies. From your explanation and initial sketch, digital networks seem to be indistinguishable from VoIP, with the exception that the internet wireless router is outdoor in a (local) physical radio repeater or indoor. In this view, which I am sure I misunderstood, a handheld is nothing more than an internet client (as Skype is).
However I know that this is not the case. I played with Echolink and understood it was a mixed, radio and VoIp network, where nodes could be on radio waves as well as through the internet.
The principal is similar to VoIP but they used different technologies and codecs. Yes, there's some part that is still RF. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Is it possible that i heard people talking over a c4fm frequency with my uv5r which is only fm ?
Maybe if they have an encoding device. Baofeng makes DMR digital radio that many hotspots can convert to C4FM.
Learning is part of living. It's how I avoid turning into a tree stump. System Fusion really appeals to me, but repeater coverage is better in my area for D-Star. I will probably end up both eventually, but D-Star 1st.
This helped me greatly, thanks.
I was wondering is it possible to creat a pruvert dmr repeater and onaly have selected people allowed to use it
Each digital mode has its pros can cons, just do a little research on what is best for your application and needs. At the end of the day, you're basically translating analog to digital communications via TCP/IP. ;)
c4fm is digital so our repeater is analog and fusion so does that mean I can use digital or analog????
if i have a DMR radio and wanna communicate with a c4fm repeater will it work?
nice video my friend very specific thanks73
Thank you, 73 Pascal VA2PV
great overview , thanks
Thanks! Great info.
nice presentation thanks
Praise for the beautiful explanation , I have delightfully subscribed to your channel and thank you for all the efforts placed to make digital variety understandable for everybody. All the best 73' Rob 9J2RD
Thanks Rob. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Great Information !!! Thank you very much ....👍
Thank you for the explanation.
Greetings Cor. PA3CRL
Thanks for Watching. 73 Pascal VA2PV
i was fine with the description, until you started with C4FM. Now I'm totally lost.
It was utterly confusing. :-) But it did help me understand the basics. Thank you! (DL2AKV)
DMR is very confusing!
It is ...... it's a bit confusing if you don't know the infrastructure of it ..... because there's 1. DMR Repeater 2. DMR Reflector as in Reflector is Internet and Repeater is on a Mountain Top .... That's basically it really ....
no
Many thanks for clear explanation. 73 from EB3EWQ
Thank you for this!!!
Cant I just buy two C4FM HTs and use them to talk to eachother?
Merci Pascal!
Well done, thanks.
One cool Québecer!
You know enough material on this topic to write a book, be do.
Thank you. I will think about it, hihi. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Now I understand. Thanks.
For me d star I love the most cheers
Your a legend. Thanks
Tell me directly what is better?
(I do not speak English)
Well done
Then you get Allstar networks that can link in DMR, C4FM and Dstar, and also analogue FM, echolink and anything else!
Yes, it's just a glips of the ham radio possibilities! 73
very good video,
Your information at 8:24 about Tier 1 DMR is wrong. It is NOT 6.25KHz. It's exactly like Tier 2 DMR except it does not use repeaters and it may transmit continuously (so not turning on and off like a tier 2 radio). dPMR is a completely different standard and not at all the same thing as tier 1 DMR.
Hi, I don’t want to start an argument, but unless I don’t understand correctly the ETSI standard, DMR Tier I is referred as “Digital PMR446”. But I do understand the reason why you don’t qualify it as DMR, since it’s reserved for low-power units meant for the general public. Another confusing term of DMR. You are right about this part since it's FDMA " it does not use repeaters and it may transmit continuously".
Just in case the viewers have any doubt, the paragraph below was extracted directly of an ETSI standard official document, ETSI TR 102 398 v1.3.1. Called “Electromagnetic compatibility and Radio spectrum Matters (ERM); Digital Mobile Radio (DMR), General System Design”.
“There are three tiers of DMR equipment:
• tier I equipment is for the lowest-cost "digital PMR446" application;
• tier II is for professional market offering peer-to-peer mode and repeater mode; and
• tier III is for trunked operation. DMR tier II and tier III products encompass both simulcast and non-simulcast systems.
The present document describes a Digital Mobile Radio (DMR) system for tier II and tier III products which employs a Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) technology with a 2-slot TDMA solution and RF carrier bandwidth of 12,5 kHz. Additionally, a DMR system for tier I products is described which employs a continuous transmission variation (FDMA) of the above-mentioned technology.”
Ok so this paragraph clear it that it's part of DMR.
Here's the link of the document.
www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_tr/102300_102399/102398/01.03.01_60/tr_102398v010301p.pdf
There’s also a specific ETSI Digital Private Mobile Radio (DPMR) document stating that it use FDMA with a channel spacing of 6.25kHz. See the the link below.
www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/102400_102499/102490/01.09.01_60/ts_102490v010901p.pdf
There's also the website below that offer simple explanation with links to the ETSI documents.
www.dmrassociation.org/dmr-standards.html
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify the terms for everyone.
73 Pascal VA2PV
It is quite confusing and I can totally understand that it's easy to make a mistake with this. I only made my comment to stop everybody from being even more confused by it.
Digital PMR446 is not only one mode. Both DMR and dPMR are allowed to be used on PMR446 frequencies. Both of these are digital PMR446 but both are different. dPMR is a mode that has a tier just for PMR446 called dPMR446, and also has separate tiers for repeater use and for trunking, the same as DMR. DMR has tier 1 for just PMR446, and it has tier 2 and 3 which are repeater and trunking use. DMR is always 12.5KHz and can never be 6.25KHz. It can only be 6.25KHz equivalent, by use of the two timeslots which allows each voice call to take the equivalent of 6.25KHz by using half the time on a 12.5KHz channel. dPMR is always 6.25KHz and FDMA. The documents you have linked to are talking about dPMR, not DMR. They are two completely different standards, like P25 and NXDN. Or like D-STAR and Yaesu Fusion. Not related at all, except that they are both made by ETSI. But so are many standards like TETRA too.
There are two documents in reference, the DMR document, say tier I is "digital PMR446 and FDMA" and in the DPMR document they refer at some point to "Digital PMR 446". But on the dmrassociation.org website they describe DMR tier 1 "DMR Tier I products are for license-free use in the 446MHz band", but don't call it DPMR.
So yes, this is very confusing for everyone, I wonder if we are confusing technology vs service? To keep it simple, I strongly suggest to the viewers to read this article publish in the QST of October 2015 edition, it's called “Introduction to Digital Mobile Radio (DMR)” by John S. Burningham, W2XAB. He also describes DMR Tier I as dPMR446 and that it's FDMA with 6.25kHz bandwidth (see page 30). There's also no point to argue about it, hihi, since to a certain degree we are saying about the same thing but in different ways. So let's concentrate on tier II, the most important one for which we seem to agree, hihi.
By the way, I'm a subscriber of your channel ;-) Are exchanges shows how and why DMR is so confusing, but its fun, isn't it ?
73 and thanks for being a good sport.
I hope you don't get the wrong impression. I don't want to argue with you either, but there is a lot of confusion about these digital standards and I just try to clear it up whenever I see a mistake. It is not meant as a criticism of you, I just want to help make sure that everyone understands these standards.
I could not manage to open the QST article that you mentioned, but if he said that DMR tier 1 is dPMR446 then he is wrong. I'm not sure if we are confusing service and technology here. dPMR446 is a technology, like DMR tier 1. The service is PMR446 (which is the European equivalent of FRS) which allows three modes to be used: dPMR (specifically called dPMR446), DMR (specifically DMR tier 1), and FM. dPMR is FDMA and 6.25KHz. DMR is normally TDMA however for tier 1, radios are allowed to use "continuous transmission mode" which means that is is essentially FDMA, but it's still 12.5KHz, never 6.25KHz.
Have a look on page 5 of this document. Maybe it explains it better: kenwoodcommunications.co.uk/files/file/comms/uk/pmr446/PMR446-White-Paper-V6_18AUG2016_JT_KB.pdf
I hope this helps
I couldn’t help it, I was very curious about this as there are some inconstancy between dPMR and Digital PMR, I search the web last night hoping to find a clear answer, side by side, without any luck. The only thing I found was that they all refer to PMR446. The same band, same usage and everybody thinks dPMR, me included, stand for digital PMR. WOW. I was gonna ask you if you had any document about this and when I got back from work there was your link. This document clears it for good, you are right to say that dPMR is not DMR tier I, but Digital PMR446 can be Tier I DMR. That is the differences between the two.
What a confusion, we are not the first one to have exchanges about this, most people are confused. Thanks for clearing it out. The last line below is what the users need to know that dPMR and DMR tier I are not compatible in digital mode. I will add the info below in the video comments. By the way what’s your name? Call sign? 73 Pascal VA2PV
Correction 8:24 (thanks to radiosification), I'm also a good sport ;-)
For DMR users, here's some details about DMR Tier I vs dPMR.
The new 446.0-446.2MHz extended frequency spectrum will double the number of license-free PMR446 channels available for equipment operating at 12.5 kHz and 6.25 kHz channel spacing:
• Analogue* equipment which can only operate on 12.5 kHz channel spacing increases from 8 to 16 channels
• DMR Tier 1** digital PMR446 which operates on 12.5 kHz channel spacing with a Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) channel access method increases from 8 to 16 channels
• dPMR446** digital PMR446 equipment which operates on 6.25 kHz channel spacing with a Frequency Division Multiple Access (FDMA) channel access method increases from 16 to 32 channels
** Due to their different channel access methods, DMR Tier 1 and dPMR446 digital equipment are not compatible with each other when operating in digital mode.
How many people can talk at the same time on a C4FM repeater?
One. 73 Pascal VA2PV
@@Laboenligne Thank you for your reply! Dont this tie up the repeater? Can you use a hotspot like DMR?
@@PoliceCams Your welcome and thanks for watching. Yes you can use hotspot on all digital modes, D-Star, DMR, C4FM, some (OpenSPOT 2) can transcode between DMR and C4FM. 73 Pascal VA2PV
@@PoliceCams Oh I forgot one question, yes this can tie up repeater if it's linked to a reflector meaning that you don't have to be local to use the repeater. You can actually use a European repeater while being physically in New York. But there is so much reflector type and modes that usually it's not a problem. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Laboenligne.ca Thank you 73 AC4DC
Every Quebec kid was into radios because our radio shack stores were filled with such cool junk
So true, same in Ontario (it's where I grow up). 73 Pascal VA2PV
Laboenligne.ca we also were blessed to have lots of UFOs lol
If you have questions regarding DMR, here's a link that may assist with putting the pieces together.
www.miklor.com/DMR/DMR-Tutorial.php/
So after all of that, what is a hot spot, you never explained it but talked a lot about it....!!
Hi, I understand, sometimes I only realized after that I didn't cover an angle. Maybe this video can be helpful. th-cam.com/video/BYfqy86CL5E/w-d-xo.html Keep in mind that a digital hotspot will let you connect to reflector via the Internet. So, a reflector is similar to a repeater but in the Internet IP world. 73 Pascal VA2PV
How to Configure your MMDVM Pi-Star HotSpot for DV Scotland DMR Network IPSC2-DVScotland.
This will allow users either in Scotland or other parts of the World to link in to our system to join in the IRN NETWORK NETS and to also take part in our Monday Night Net
Configure your radio with HotSpot Frequency and Time Slot 2.
List of DV Scotland DMR Network Talk Groups: www.dvscotland.net/talkgroups.xhtml
How to configure static Talk Groups.
DMR Configuration DMR Master: DMR+_IPSC2-DVScotland
DMR+ Options: Options= TS2_1=23555;TS2_2=23556;
th-cam.com/video/xBLIC9sMp8c/w-d-xo.html
Well there's been a tiny bit of changes in the last few years I guess. Sheesh.
Hi Seti, You're right, but this is fun to learn too. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Good information. Thank you. Dave, KA1OLA.
What?! The earth is round?! Cue flat earther meltdown! Actually thanks for the video, I was looking for this info.
Very nice presentation... Thank You. AJ6GK Mike
Thanks Mike. 73 Pascal VA2PV
Actually Yaesu is no longer allowed to use the term C4FM as that belongs to P25. yaesu has a different modulation then the real C4FM which is the P25 Standard.