As a new HAM (Saturday 1 August 2020), I am now doing equipment research for handhelds, for automobile, and for my homes. I found that Bob helped me out with his opinion on the Kenwood brand radio. Thank you, sir!!! :-)
Much of the choice comes down to what system is favourable in your area. Personally, I like D-Star best, but all of the local repeaters are Wires-x. Makes the point of which I prefer a bit mute. I found DMR to be frustrating, it's great if you stay home, and a disaster for travel. So many of the repeaters don't have their information listed properly, or only partially listed. Not user friendly at all.
Hi Chris Your absolutely right I have been involved in D-Star since 2006 and its progressed to a really smart system, its very mature and works well. I believe Bobs video is absolutely correct. All three systems are great, its when agendas human nature and blown up brand loyaty gets in the way I love the clearness of All the protocols and enjoy ALL of them Fusion Brandmeister or D-Star they all good Pete Willmott VK3TQ 5053202
I love radios, because you arevreally independent, and talk with ones you feel comfortable to talk (almost everyone there are good persons, smart). All mobile carriers are goverment approved bussiness "man". HAM altruistic independence, once bought, no monthly payments. And these people are real, no propoganda, simple, nice, ordinary people, with brains and healthy, bright minds. And digital radios soon will be alternative for internet for HAM guys. And more, there all persons are with knowledge, and these "round tables" replaces or creates alternative for "coworking" rooms, to share ideas, discuss, improve creativity, to do studies etc. And almost for free and with effort for everyone.
Chris, thanks for your comment! I purchased a Yaesu FT70DR handheld, and I have a Rugged Spot hotspot ordered and will be here when it gets here. For me, the learning curve for all this digital, Fusion, etc. etc. is way too much for me overall. So what I am trying to do is since we don't have alot of digital repeaters here in the Corpus Christi, Texas area, I ordered the Rugged Spot from NEX-GEN and understand this can even cross over Fusion to D-Star, etc... What I sure would like, if any of you know, is where is there a TH-cam video that explains how to set all this up? Right now, my FT70-DR handheld is set up on FM repeater use because in our area, FM repeaters are used most often. However, now that I have this money invested, I need to understand all of the pieces and parts that make up the digital puzzle and how to set them up to get them to work like they're supposed to. Any suggestions or videos to watch would be appreciated. This video helps pick a radio, but for me, that's already done. Now help me start with programming it (I have ordered but it's not here yet, the RT systems software and cable) how do you choose rooms, how do you pick another ham, how do you disconnect, yada, yada, yada..... Thanks! Mark G. W5HSJ
I know this video is a couple years old now, but the info is spot on. I switched careers several years ago and went into communications. Having gotten a first hand look at LTR, NXDN and DMR in a commercial venue it was natural to want to play with DMR as a ham. Your summary of DMR being designed around enterprise application is spot on. It's not like as hams we don't have a habit of using commercial equipment, but for hams that can be limiting,. It doesn't allow agility and adaptation to operating(especially travel, as you noted). The commercial setups are designed to be setup and then given to folks who only need to use the device on only one or just a handful of channels. The other thing that kept me from getting seriously into DMR is the local DMR group. Yes, they've got a whole huge network of repeaters, but their onerous rule set, operating limits and apparent attitude regarding their system, means you might as well not use it, and I know more guys that've stopped DMR use because of it. I heard such bad reports about the group I stayed away from D-Star and Fusion thinking it had something to do with digital modes all together. I've finally started playing with D-Star and I'm finding that mode to be much more ham friendly, especially with a new ID4100 in the truck making it so easy! I haven't tried Fusion, but if Yaesu has made it that easy it might be worth a look too. I think If I had it to do over, I would've left my DMR experience at work and concentrated solely on D-Star or Fusion for my hobby and/or Emcomm use. Yes, the initial cost of some DMR radios is cheap but I think the other modes will have a more longevity for me in the hobby. Thanks for the vids! 73 KX3A
@@goosecouple Depends. Analog for GMRS frequencies that have the best possibility for contact. AMR for the best possibility for digital contact. DMR is the most widely used.
I've seen Dstar audio quality differ from radio to radio. I did an on air simplex test. FM, P25 and Dtsar on IC7100. Performance was in the order listed. However P25 out performs analogue when you have weak signals. When we had weak signals we couldn't hear the P25 when tuned to FM but P25 radios were able to demodulate the audio.
I'm a new tech and have been diving into SOTA, APRS and just familiarizing myself with connecting to repeaters and making contacts. As a new HAM, I find the information/option overload is the biggest initial hurdle. These types of videos are awesome to help prioritize! I have a Yaesu FT3D, but haven't even tried Fusion yet. I feel less FOMO after watching this. I already have plenty of chat groups. I think my time is best spent exploring different antennas with what I have. Thanks!!!
Out of all the videos out there on the subject, this one actually got to the point best. Since I had already invested in some yaesu's that were not fusion radios, I went ahead and went all out and went fusion when I decided to dip my toe into the water. So far so good and you're right, fusion is the "cheapest" to get into out of the big manufacturers.
At least the FT70 is. I wasn't impressed with the FT2. At a $400 price tag, I expect a lot out of a handheld and while I was intrigued by functions, display and touch screen, the programming and driver issues killed it for me very quickly.
@@K6UDA I got a FTM 3200DR. Wasn't expensive at all,$135 from gigaparts, plenty of watts out and I move it back and forth between home and pickup. Not too many fusion repeaters in area, but I can hit a few and I'm learning the digital ropes.
okay, a few weeks ago I made the statement that Hoshnashi was also into air rifles. I'm a dork. I confused him with Hajimoto productions. I can't remember which video it was on, but I found this one. sorry for the confusion. Now, where did that beer go?
Re DMR in the UK. There is a great codeplug that covers the whole UK, and the analogue repeaters too. Moonraker have a dual band DMR and analogue codeplug for their HT500D, which is the same as a Retevis RT 82 and a TYT2017. It also works on the RT3s. Thanks for the video!
I recently picked up a Yaesu FT-70D at a Ham flea market for a hundred bucks. It's my first foray into digital amateur radio of any kind, and I have been pleasantly surprised by System Fusion's ease of use, especially after having attended a DMR presentation at a ham club meeting. Getting on a local WiresX repeater was easier than getting on the local analog repeaters and I was pleased to be able to participate without having to buy a Hotspot. This video seems very well considered - thank you.
Appreciate your thoughts on this. I dove in with DMR right off the bat originally and was sort of discouraged and got away from things due to the rally subpar FM performance and I thought that was just how it is. Looking into Fusion stuff right now as it looks very well supported out here. Have a good one!
Great video but it really doesn't matter which is best. In my area there are no Fusion repeaters and on a couple of DSTAR repeaters. But DMR is king around here. Having the best digital system means nothing if there is no one to talk to. a hotspot can help some but that isn't really ham radio now is it?
Don't forget, if you have a Shark hotspot, a DMR radio will allow you to work Fusion as well, because the Shark transcodes. Equally, a Fusion radio can access DMR via the Shark. No transcoding available to/from D-Star though... D-Star to D-Star through the Shark is fine.
I think your dmr radio might be part of the experience. I can take my BTECH DMR-6X2 anywhere there is a DMR repeater and program it from the front panel in seconds. Also, it works fine on analog FM.
One of the best videos in the Internet that brings immense clarity on different radios in the digital platform. I guess now have to first survey the repeaters in my country and then take a final call whether to go for a DMR, DSTAR or a Fusion handy. Really appreciate all your efforts in creating these videos and making it simple to understand. Greetings from Bangalore, India. 73s VU3TQT
I'm getting into the conversation late (Tech 1/2023, General 3/2023). I bought the Yaesu FT-5D as my first radio, but not really for getting into "rooms". I chose it because the local Ham club runs Yaesu repeaters and I was impressed by both the build quality and value per dollar; I got the FT-5D instead of a less expensive Yaesu HT because I wanted some I won't outgrow quickly. (My backup HT is the Explorrer QRZ-1, and already it seems a bit limiting.) Nice thing about System Fusion radios is that they can be set to go between digital and analog automatically, depending on the signal your radio receives. (System Fusion repeaters can do this too.) I don't think any other digital voice radios or modes offer this. As for overall build quality, Icom and Kenwood are probably tops, but you pay a lot more for both brands. My Yaesu is well-made, pretty rugged, and delivers an honest 5 watt output on both 2m and 70cm. I even turned my FT-5D into a "sorta" mobile rig by adding a trunk-mount antenna and speaker-mic, with the radio in a cup-holder mount; works well, limited only by the 5-watt output. Both DMR and D-Star interest me, and I may try one or both when I start dabbling in Ham VOIP ... but that's not a priority. I also want a VHF mobile rig (and maybe a different vehicle), an HF base station (and maybe a different home QTH where I can erect antennas), my Amateur Extra license -- not necessarily in that order.
After looking at the video i am going with fusion my club has a fusion repeater. We were one of the first clubs to get one when fusion started. I am new the digital stuff. Starting fresh with new equipment. Been off the air for years getting my feet wet like a new ham again.
I would say, what is best depends on what you plan using the most, the Kenwood is a great choice if you want to use all three bands, talk on D-star, use aprs & packet and want to listen to shortwave radio with it, if all you want is FM analog on vhf/uhf, then you probably don't need the extra cost to operate D-star and listen to shortwave and or use the 220 mhz 1.25 meter band. More of a preference as to what you want for capabilities vs. what you will actually use on the radio. 73's
In my area most of the nearest repeaters are fusion. So, as a beginner, I will buy a radio with fusion. I would also suggest with DMR, one doesn't know if your particular radio will be supported for long.
My Anytone D878UV plus I can set the mic gain, I think it is the only DMR radio that you can adjust the mic gain, but I don't know all radios so there may be another. I am very happy with my Anytone and just added the D578UVIII
I have the MD380 and a SharkRF Openspot and use my phone and a TP Nano for WiFi, battery pack for portable use.I can do DMR, FCS, and WiresX. The analog part of the MD 380 is great no complaints. Cheap way to go
P25 is a sub mode of DMR but it's so uncommon in the ham world, I didn't include it. Probably because I don't own one. On an experience note, during the last few years as a cop, my agency spent 13 million converting to a P25 system. It was so bad, we couldn't understand each other. I literally would tell citizens to call 911 if shooting started because the radio system was so worthless.
You had me all set to get the Kenwood and now I find they were discontinued in December 2020 with no replacement unit forecasted. That just figures....
Best video on digital voice I've seen. Thank you Bob for a fair assessment of them all. Here in Iowa DMR is prevalent, but for me being in a rural setting, I have all three and use a hotspot for them. It's a hoot to listen to folks all over the world on any of these modes. Thank you for this video... enjoyed the quip about other languages... LOL.
Thanks Bob, great video. I started out with DMR and wrote my own code plug which was a experience. I then found a used Icom ID 51a and began getting acquainted with D-Star. Then at club last month we had a presentation System Fusion C4FM. So... I bought a Yaesu FT5 dr. Still working on the setup for Fusion but it is exactly as you said they all can do about the same thing at the end point. Glad to hear you explain it is very easy terms for all of us. 73 Jeff KE0KRO.
D-Star repeaters on Oahu got pulled so none here. DMR is scarce and can't hit the repeaters from home. Zilch Fusion/Wires-X so I bought an OpenSpot2 Hotspot. Have the Icom ID51A from 7 years ago and now it's getting some action plus just picked up an Anytone D878 DMR radio.
I first got my license in 1967 but let it lapse in the late 90s. I just got it back and digital amateur radio is new to me. This is the best, cut to the chase video about the subject I have seen. Thank you.; W1RNY
I don't know anything about ham and radios, but it sounds interesting. What is the best way to start? Is it analog, is it digital, DMR, D-Star, ....? I'm from Europe and want to listen to world wide conversations. I'm not really the talking guy. Just listening to get some interesting information or news before they are in the mainstream media.
Thank you, for this chat. I am totally new to digital. I am mostly working from home, and am in a motorized wheelchair whether home or not. We have multiple repeaters locally, of all flavors. I think I will grab that Yaesu 70, and maybe the Kenwood too.
Bob, that's a nice review of all 3 digital modes. Some DMR radios seem to be trying to find a middle ground with frequent firmware updates. I did not hear you mention the ID 31a Plus that comes in around $250 and a $25 rebate. The D-STAR radios have the repeater coordinates stored in the radio and uses the GPS (when turned on) which is how I believe it can find repeaters almost anywhere. A guy on fusion told me that you can go access different places with each of the different modes which seems to be true. D-STAR can remotely access specific repeaters as well as reflectors. DMR can access TGs and reflectors (although not common practice with reflectors) but not remotely to repeaters like D-STAR. Using a hotspot blurs the lines a bit. All in all it's very interesting.
I could have gone on and on about Icom D-Star radios, D-Star on HF, D-Rats ect.. The video was already almost twice as long as I like to make them and the main focus is the new ham.
Your wrap up - if you have a lot of Fusion Dstar or DMR in your area you want to go that route! Right on. Enjoyed your informative video - except for the change in volume between you filming indoors then outdoors. Thanks for the info!
8:25 They aren't restricted to ONLY D-Star repeater locations, are they?? The "NEAR REPEATER" functionality has pretty much made me an Icom only guy, since so far it's an Icom only feature as near as I can tell
I got my ham license about 18 years ago. I opted to not go down the digital path. Digital is very cool, but I think we are missing the point. Ham operators live by the motto " when all other forms of communications fail". The problem I see is that digital radios are setting themselves up to fail just like our professional radio counterparts. In an emergency, who wants to program a radio with a laptop in order to communicate with someone else? How cool would it be to just turn a dial and talk? I personally travel full-time in a motorhome, and pulling out my laptop to program my radios every time just plain sux. Seems like GMRS is the best path for me. But thanks for taking the time to share this info.
you are mistaken. Ham operators DON'T live by the motto " when all other forms of communications fail". Dorks live by that motto. Hams that think amateur radio is only for emergencies are living in la la land. It's entertainment - a hobby. And repeaters fail all the time - they don't even need an emergency to fail. Those who think other forms of communication will fail in a disaster, but repeaters won't are naive. HF is another story though. Also, the only radios that require a laptop to program are Cheap Chinese Junk, and DMR radios. Most Icoms, Yaesu, and Kenwood are fairly simple to front panel program. So if you don't want to have to use a computer to program a radio, then don't buy Cheap Chinese or DMR. But you should probably stay with GMRS -
Hey, I'm planning on traveling internationally next year and am getting my First Ham HT (I have a DMR from Motorola that a Friend gave me, that i really don't want to take on a plane knowing baggage handlers!!) and was wondering what system would work best over a both America, the UK and EU. I don't mind programming for hours but would like to load a few thousand Repeater's for the country's/states I will be going to and then not have to worry to much. anyone got advice?
Actually, if all your looking for is analog repeaters and maybe some simplex work, I'd stick with a super cheap HT like a Baofeng UV5R. If you want to do digital too then opt for something like a Yaesu FT60 or a possibly an Anytone DMR radio. Why? Your concerned about airport security or baggage handlers losing, destroying or confiscating your radio. Plus, remember when traveling internationally, your USA license is not valid unless your an extra traveling in countries with a license treaty. I can personally tell you that I've had customs in other countries grab up my ham gear and were ready to keep it until I proved I had a reciprocal license for their country. Luckily I did.
I got a way to get on DMR in October 2018. Nice one way to get communicated across the world. You're right about: all 3 modes are simply the same , and user can take him/her choice which way to get connected. 73
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I have been a ham since the early 1990's but took a bit of a break from amateur radio in part due to my job. I worked as an EMS Lieutenant and a lot of my time was spent in the communications center...surrounded by radios. Anyway...I have since retired (Jan 2017) and I am getting back into ham radio. I dug through the closet and set up my shack and car with some older equipment. As I started plugging in local repeaters...I was noticing comments/notations in the ARRL repeater directory that I did not recognize. Apparently we have gone digital in a number of places :-) Deciding upon which mode to follow....kinda reminds me of the Beta VS VHS decision a while back and the BluRay Vs...I don't remember...Vs another format.... Anyway...time for me to re-educate myself about amateur radio and your video gave me a great start. Thanks again! Scott N1KMX
Thanks for another great video and thanks for the QSO yesterday. I started with D-Star and then bought a DMR radio. Of the two I enjoy D-Star the most. After watching your video. Now I’m tempting to try Fusion. Thanks again. Billy N5DEA
So true the choice is a matter of personal preference. I have all three and here is what i have managed to derive. DMR is popular now but even the high end HT are either super expensive Motorolas or made in China. Yeasu System Fusion is really easy and the FT 70 is alot of bang for you buck. D-Star is my personal favorite because of the ability to locate near by repeaters by your GPS location. Also D-Star is the most popular in my area. The Icom 51plus two is my current EDC.
K6UDA, this the best explanation of the price, quality and usage of the 3 digital radio systems. Thanks for building an excellent video that helps radio users to make their decision.
Modern commercial radios require an entitlement key to program 25khz channels after the narrowband mandate in most cases. Once you do that and program them up the audio is on par with any other FM handheld out there. Not having FPP / VFO is a major drag however. Thanks for sharing !
15:00 I took your advice and bought an FT'70DR at MTC yesterday for 150 dollars delivered. Today I got an email saying they were out of stock and asked me to wait an unspecified time for them to receive an order from Yaesu. I cancelled the order and am now ordering from Gigaparts for the same price. Stocking dealers should stock the items they're selling.
How does the radio use a hotspot? IOW, how does it know what IP address to connect up with for any particular 'reflector', 'chat room', and so forth? Your post is old, so I'm not expecting an answer but ... anyway ...
Hey Bob. How about doing some workshops on the Basics of DStar, Fusion and DMR in their on video. I have use DMR for about 6 years now. I’ve put up a couple of DMR Repeaters. Tried DStar it’s all confusing to me. Fusion I’ve yet to try. Like on DStar I don’t know what reflector, room, etc. to get on. But I’m interested as I have a couple of Icom DStar portables. Have a good day. For DMR you need an Anytone 878.
If I understand things correctly, DSTAR was designed for amateur radio users from the ground up. The other digital modes have been "adapted" for amateur radio and are not as user-friendly. DSTAR has been around now for about 20 years.
Great summary!! I've not heard it said that clearly anywhere else! Definitely helped me, along with a search for local digital repeaters, choose the best option for me.
If you were a Full Time RV'er , which radio would you chose out of these 3? My wife and I are Full Time Rv'ers and I'm interested in getting a handheld Ham Radio.
It pretty much depends on which mode you want to operate in addition to analog. If you’re working off of a hotspot then you could pick any of them. If you want the best for an all-around radio the Kenwood D 74 is probablyYour best pick
Bob, I enjoyed the relaxed-style video (all of 'em) Just gotta say - You are the sorta guy that makes me just want to sit out there on your Patio and rag-chew ham-radio with you for hours! - but your videos are next best thing - Thanks!
I have at least one radio for all the digital modes (D-Star, Fusion, DMR, P25, and even NXDN), plus a Wires-X node and a bunch of mmdvm’s. (Not to mention a few AllStar nodes too.). Comparing the DV modes isn’t something I really like doing as it’s kind of like comparing oranges and tangerines, but DMR is very cheap to get into (there are many DMR CCR’s), plus if someone new learns DMR first, the other modes will be extremely simple afterwards. Not that DMR is overly complex, but it does involve some simple TDMA multiplexing. Having worked with mux’d supergroup trunks consisting of hundreds of channels before, mux’ing two 6.25 KHz channels (TimeSlots in DMR terminology) is trivial. The downsides to DMR is that there isn’t much dynamic audio range when it’s being funneled through a 6.25 KHz straw. Also, DMR gets its roots from the commercial world in Europe, so using it for amateur use is kind of like putting a square peg into a round hole, same with P25 and NXDN. D-Star and Fusion were created by amateur radio for amateur radio and imo, the reflectors on those modes tend to carry more interesting QSO’s. Try them all out and see which you like. By starting with DMR, if you aren’t sure about Fusion (or P25), you can use crossmode to get a slight feel of their reflectors before investing in an actual radio for them. Yes, there are apps too like DroidStar, but the AQ won’t be as good as a native radio. Also; by having native radios for the modes, you can use them also with just repeaters or even simplex’s. Just because they are digital doesn’t mean they have to be internet linked, it just means they are digital. Have fun and explore them all, but imo, it probably makes most sense to start with DMR if you want to check them all out eventually. I’m now into FreeDV (a HF DV mode).
Great video. Thanks for the explanation. Locally, I have a Fusion repeater. No D-star. The local ham shop said there's lots of DMR usage in the area. I'm leaning towards the FT-70dr at the point as I want to go analog with it as well. Since you don't like the analog capabilities of the DMR offerings so far, that kind of seals it for me.
Another great video Bob. Since there are no Digital repeaters near me I will wait until your open spot video to show me what all that involves. There is a guy that has his Fusion open that I have gone thru to get to the groups on Wires X. Keep them videos coming
I’m old and only had DStar until a lightning strike took it out. What I want to know is Fusion? What can it do? My area has most everything so that’s not a problem, but we do travel (stateside). 73, de kb0wzh
I am new to all of this but I am interested in digital radio. There is one DMR repeater in my area but I live in a small town and I would like to explore the possibilities of DMR on the web. Yes, I am on a budget so I am leaning on the DMR radios for that reason. I appreciate how you spelled all of the options out. Now, if I can find a source of information that takes me through setting up a DMR radio and a hotspot, I will start this journey.
Thanks Bob, very helpful. The Kenwood TH-D74 seems to be out of stock in the UK. I wonder if a newer model is in the pipeline from Kenwood? Btw, not offended by your comment but we do speak a kind of English here in the UK :-)
i BOUGHT A DMR RADIO , AN ALINCO DJ MD5, IT WILL CONNECT TO ANYTHING AS LONG AS I GET A HOT SPOT, THIS IS THE NEXT THING. I ALMOST BOUGHT THE YAESU 70 DIGITAL RADIO BUT I WANTED A BIGGER SCREEN AND THIS RADIO IS PRETTY NICE AND HAS ALOT OF CAPABILITY. I REALLY LIKE THE KENWOOD BUT NOT IN THE BUDGET AT THIS TIME. HAVE FUN. 73.
Bob, can you tell me how to connect a FT 70DR radio to IRLP. Mine will connect to wiresX but can't figure out how to connect to an IRLP repeater. It has to be simple. Thanks for you video above. I am a new hammer and at 64 years young, this is my hobby from now on. I'm Ed, call sign KO4AFE in Athens, AL.
Great video, I know there's been some changes since this video was made, but everything is still very relevant. I will say that I haven't had audio issues on analog with my BTech (Basically an Anytone) DMR radio. It's my go to travel radio. Its not the simplest and most easy to program from the keypad, but I can do it. And it works great on analog as well. The only thing is it dosnt have my beloved 220 MHz band.
Right now D-star is my preference...but DMR isn't that bad. If you have time to setup the code plug you can use those repeaters or invest in a hotspot. I need to try SystemFusion rig yet.
I have to call signs, one for the USA and one for Panama. I have DMR ID's for both, do I have to use two radios or can I change the ID when we are living in Panama, 6 - months out of the year. I realize that I have to use the correct call signs depending on the country we are in.
I consider getting the ID-4100 for my truck. It does all I need and it will find repeaters near me. On top the 4100 is small enough for install and the price is great. This video is a great help to definitely skip the DMR stuff. Thanks
I agree with Demizer1968. I have been watching videos on digital modes the last couple days trying to understand what the differences are. Most of the videos lost me in all the technicalities. Don't get me wrong; i like and appreciate the talk on packets and such (i am a network tech) but i just want to know -in a nutshell- what the practical differences are and which is best for what or if they have specific uses. It took me a few videos before i realized that APRS was literally just a location/tracking beacon type feature and not a voice modulation mode the way C4FM is. And it took me a while to realize that C4FM is the modulation method while System Fusion, Wires-X, DMR, and D-STAR are the systems/platforms through which digital modes can travel around the country/world. To be fair, maybe your video made this much sense to me after having seen all the others; and thus yours just tied it all together for me. Thanks!
Thank you so much Sir, Bob K6UDA. I've been watching TH-cam all about Digital Ham Radio. My call sign VE7JLC, Now I understand those 3 Radios, in my area they are using DSTAR the way each radio is different mode, I search more before i get into it. My question is DSTAR is majority in North America......73 Sir.
Thanks. I think it depends on locale. In my area D-Star is king. In some other areas DMR rules. Back east, There's a lot of Fusion repeaters. Log into Rfinder or Repeaterbook and search your area. Then base your decision on that.
I've been trying to understand all this digital mode stuff...GREAT VIDEO! I am also trying to decide between buying a FUSION, DMR, or DSTAR mobile radio. I'm considering the Anytone 578 (DMR), and the Yaesu FT300DR (Fusion). The Anytone has 220mhz., the Yaesu does not. But, repeaters on 220Mhz are becoming less prolific, and some believe they're on the way out in the USA, with some of the band width being skimmed-off by the FCC to other services. So, while the Anytone has the band width advantage, as well as a stellar reputation for performance, I'm leaning toward the Yaesu, simply because the 220 band isn't that desireable to have. And, I've been a Yaesu guy for 35 years, and their quality/performance is generally outstanding. Of the two repeaters in my rural area, one is Fusion, less than a mile from my house, and the other that is ten miles away is multiple mode capable, DMR, DSTAR, and FUSION. I also have a Yaesu FT3R (Fusion), and could take it along when traveling, and easily access all the Fusion Repeaters while traveling in urban areas. If you have a cheapy with you that's DMR (Baofeng, TYT, etc...), then just use it to access DMR repeaters if need be, and the Baofengs are easy to program with CHIRP open source software. The way I see it, the real remedy is to take along the Shark OpenSpot 3 when traveling, and that seems to totally level the playing field so you can access any and all of the digital modes through your cell phone's internet connection. And, the Shark Open Spot 3 can just as easily be employed on your home turf as well. Of course, these various options with respect to cost assume that cost is no option, especially with the Shark Open Spot 3 ($300.00). Now, these are all assumptions on my part because I'm just getting started, and trying to uderstand the options. Do I understand the options about right?
I have a Fusion radio, and I love it. You can operate on Fusion or DMR if you use a Pi-star hot spot. It seems the most versatile that you can use it on two of the digital modes.
Thanks for this video and giving us the unvarnished truth. I picked up a DMR handheld a couple of weeks ago to play with. One of the things in the back of my head was using it for travel and you answered that question. My solution is to bring my hotspot along, but it sure would be nice to be able to use it in a strange city without a lot of pre-programing and searching for repeater information. Your information helped there and one of the other modes may also be in my future.
Sorry to be the bearer of that bad news. There's some DMR guys that disagree and say everything can be done from the front panel and done quickly but when pressed for details I'm told "its complicated". I don't understand complicated.
Ailuance hd1. In contacts enter contact ID, group, and it's name. In band a or b set choose your color code , time slot, and select the contact you just made. Done from the front panel. Under 30 seconds. I travel through 4 states almost every weekend for off roading. Use it all the time on the fly. The HD-1's campaign literally is the dmr radio made for amatures. And before anyone else chimes in, I have the latest firmware, the volume has been corrected, my tx power isn't off, and yes I only use Ailuance antennas. Overall zero issues with it and I use it almost daily There's the details.
In Australia we have a national D-Star program for the 51A and the 5100 with ALL analog and Digital repeaters in Australia with their respective GPS location Data programmed in A lot of hours and hours of work to program but its done. Now the "Near Repeater Function works in D-Star AND analog. Really great in a big country like Australia Try and get a crappy TYT to do that, and then export to excel to program other Icom radios, DMR is for Masochists
How do you find out which is best for your geographical location? In other words how can I find out how many dStar repeaters in my area and if I can reach it? So these digital signals carry further than analog signals?
Just picked up a D74. Less than 4hrs of use whiling running APRS and listening on 2m it shut down and will not power on. :( Such a cool full featured radio. I hope to have my replacement early next week. I have been struggling to get registered on DStar system. All the register web links in my area will not load. I hope to figure that out once I get me replacement D74 even if I do not use it for Dstar. Such a cool radio. Now I may purchase a Ft-70 as well. Thanks a lot Bob, you enabler. I am becoming a radio junkie. :)
When you get your new radio, If you run the battery down to low the radio will shut off and not charge until you remove the battery and replace it. Then charge the battery with the radio off. After a few cycles the battery will last several hours longer.
A great video comparison at 10k foot level, Bob ... It should certainly help people on the decision fence on mode or $ to make a good decision. Thumbs up!
I have a Yaesu with Fusion/WIRES in my mobile and that's all I want in that vehicle. I get a giggle out of listening to and very occasionally talking around the world from my vehicle and that's all I use WIRES for. However ... I'm interested in DMR because our local Skywarn Amateur Radio Coordinator (SARC) has asked us (I'm a Net Manager with a few more responsibilities than an NCO) to "consider" DMR for alternate Net Ops during an activation. What I want to be able to do is just use DMR from my shack in whatever is the simplest, cheapest means possible. So I'm thinking about a cheap, very low end HT paired with a DMR hotspot connected to my (very powerful) computer. I have fantastic internet ... If I'm out spotting weather for the NWS I'm always going to be on analog radio with a mobile phone for backup. Period. Many of our guys in my AO only have analog and analog is plenty good enough for mobile functions for my purposes. If I'm at my desk (in my Shack/Office/Shop/Man Cave) there's the possibility that I might run a net during an activation over DMR. Whatever DMR setup I get will never leave the Shack. I'm not a "Ham Radio Enthusiast", I don't give a fig for talking on radios as a hobby. I'm only interested in the EmCom aspect of my radio equipment. There are things I do with my time that I personally find a lot more interesting and fruitful than talking to strangers all around the world. That's just me, I'm not criticizing the hobby or those who enjoy it. So ... Any suggestions to get where I want to be with this stuff? Input would be greatly appreciated.
I started out with a ID-51 primarily for analog. I just loved the versatility. Got me a 5100 and decided to start with DSTAR. Waiting on a hotspot so I don't have to tie up 30c (which my local repeater is always connected to) if I just want to have some QSOs. I love how easy DSTAR is once you know what you're doing. I'm looking into DMR just to play with (still seems very daunting). I plan on eventually getting into fusion, at some point. But for that I might spring for the ft-3dr.
I'm developing a quick release mount and exploring the possibility of an adhesive plate that goes on a radio's back panel. This would be instead of the belt clip or buying a dedicated pouch. Similar to how GoPro does it, just beefier. It would allow you to attach, detach, and reattach your radio to your belt, backpack strap, or molle gear in 1 second, and would cost something like two for $10. Would anyone be interested in that? Good idea? Stupid idea? Any input would be much appreciated.
I liked the video overall was a great intro into all digital voice modes. The only 2 things I disagree with are 1. they all sound the same, and 2. DMR requires a code plug when you move out of your "Area". Response: I've listened to all modes and at least to me fusion still has the clearest and less "robotic" sound (can be compromised if the tx'r has a bad connection). 2. you can build code plugs to cover large swath of areas and you dont have to limit the code plug to just your local area and as you said in the video you need a code plug for each place you go. There is really no limit to the areas you cover in a code plug aside from the storage in the radio. You dont need a separate code plug every time you move around. There is also manual programming that can be done from good DMR radios.
I flew to another city with my md-380. I edited my existing code plug through the front panel of the radio, and was on chatting with the local repeater in 5 mins. Just had to edit the TX/RX freq, and maybe the slot depending on what I was doing.
K6UDA, it is a pain in the ass, but when I flew to someplace else, the first place I go is back to my local TG. So I edit the TX/RX, then move the slot from 2 to 1, and presto! The remote brandmeister repeater is running as if I was hanging out in my garage with my regular group. The thing I like, is most repeaters are busy on the local side, so no one usually minds, or knows you are using it to chat with your local repeater. With Dstar, you pretty much always have to group negotiate where the silly thing is going to be linked. And that sucks!
I went out and bought both the Yaesu FT-70D and the Kenwood TH-D74. I have to say after using them both for a year, I love them both. Most of my repeaters around me are YSF/WIRESX or DMR but when I travel to a new area, it is so easy to get on D-Star if they have a repeater. And I use APRS on my Kenwood daily. I just need to get me a hotspot at home for home D-Star use. Anyways, great video and content.
Thank you for the detailed video, like you said everyone has their opinions about each. It was nice to hear the good and bad about each mode and their respective radios.
I think guys invest in one mode to start off with and emotionally lock themselves into it. They talk themselves into the notion that "their's" sounds better and is better than the other modes.
I took my Ailunce HD1 GPS to Ohio and without a computer being needed I was able to program in both DMR and Analog from the front keypad on the radio with no problem. So, it's one Digital radio that I know of that's so user friendly that no computer is needed to get it working on all of it's modes and talk groups.... It may be the only exception for not needing any "Code Plug" or computer to make it work...
As a new HAM (Saturday 1 August 2020), I am now doing equipment research for handhelds, for automobile, and for my homes. I found that Bob helped me out with his opinion on the Kenwood brand radio. Thank you, sir!!! :-)
You were loads of help. But, I still don’t know which way to go. How deep are my pockets - retired totally.
Studying for ham tech license, thank's Bob for the radio comparison.
Much of the choice comes down to what system is favourable in your area. Personally, I like D-Star best, but all of the local repeaters are Wires-x. Makes the point of which I prefer a bit mute.
I found DMR to be frustrating, it's great if you stay home, and a disaster for travel. So many of the repeaters don't have their information listed properly, or only partially listed. Not user friendly at all.
I love how honest and up front you are on the subject. I have avoided buying any digital radios because of the confusion from everyone else.
Hi Chris Your absolutely right I have been involved in D-Star since 2006 and its progressed to a really smart system, its very mature and works well. I believe Bobs video is absolutely correct. All three systems are great, its when agendas human nature and blown up brand loyaty gets in the way I love the clearness of All the protocols and enjoy ALL of them Fusion Brandmeister or D-Star they all good Pete Willmott VK3TQ 5053202
I love radios, because you arevreally independent, and talk with ones you feel comfortable to talk (almost everyone there are good persons, smart).
All mobile carriers are goverment approved bussiness "man". HAM altruistic independence, once bought, no monthly payments. And these people are real, no propoganda, simple, nice, ordinary people, with brains and healthy, bright minds.
And digital radios soon will be alternative for internet for HAM guys. And more, there all persons are with knowledge, and these "round tables" replaces or creates alternative for "coworking" rooms, to share ideas, discuss, improve creativity, to do studies etc. And almost for free and with effort for everyone.
Chris, thanks for your comment! I purchased a Yaesu FT70DR handheld, and I have a Rugged Spot hotspot ordered and will be here when it gets here. For me, the learning curve for all this digital, Fusion, etc. etc. is way too much for me overall. So what I am trying to do is since we don't have alot of digital repeaters here in the Corpus Christi, Texas area, I ordered the Rugged Spot from NEX-GEN and understand this can even cross over Fusion to D-Star, etc... What I sure would like, if any of you know, is where is there a TH-cam video that explains how to set all this up? Right now, my FT70-DR handheld is set up on FM repeater use because in our area, FM repeaters are used most often. However, now that I have this money invested, I need to understand all of the pieces and parts that make up the digital puzzle and how to set them up to get them to work like they're supposed to. Any suggestions or videos to watch would be appreciated. This video helps pick a radio, but for me, that's already done. Now help me start with programming it (I have ordered but it's not here yet, the RT systems software and cable) how do you choose rooms, how do you pick another ham, how do you disconnect, yada, yada, yada..... Thanks! Mark G. W5HSJ
I know this video is a couple years old now, but the info is spot on. I switched careers several years ago and went into communications. Having gotten a first hand look at LTR, NXDN and DMR in a commercial venue it was natural to want to play with DMR as a ham. Your summary of DMR being designed around enterprise application is spot on. It's not like as hams we don't have a habit of using commercial equipment, but for hams that can be limiting,. It doesn't allow agility and adaptation to operating(especially travel, as you noted). The commercial setups are designed to be setup and then given to folks who only need to use the device on only one or just a handful of channels.
The other thing that kept me from getting seriously into DMR is the local DMR group. Yes, they've got a whole huge network of repeaters, but their onerous rule set, operating limits and apparent attitude regarding their system, means you might as well not use it, and I know more guys that've stopped DMR use because of it. I heard such bad reports about the group I stayed away from D-Star and Fusion thinking it had something to do with digital modes all together.
I've finally started playing with D-Star and I'm finding that mode to be much more ham friendly, especially with a new ID4100 in the truck making it so easy! I haven't tried Fusion, but if Yaesu has made it that easy it might be worth a look too.
I think If I had it to do over, I would've left my DMR experience at work and concentrated solely on D-Star or Fusion for my hobby and/or Emcomm use. Yes, the initial cost of some DMR radios is cheap but I think the other modes will have a more longevity for me in the hobby.
Thanks for the vids!
73
KX3A
Which mode is best for SHTF ?
@@goosecouple Depends. Analog for GMRS frequencies that have the best possibility for contact. AMR for the best possibility for digital contact. DMR is the most widely used.
I've seen Dstar audio quality differ from radio to radio. I did an on air simplex test. FM, P25 and Dtsar on IC7100. Performance was in the order listed. However P25 out performs analogue when you have weak signals. When we had weak signals we couldn't hear the P25 when tuned to FM but P25 radios were able to demodulate the audio.
I'm a new tech and have been diving into SOTA, APRS and just familiarizing myself with connecting to repeaters and making contacts. As a new HAM, I find the information/option overload is the biggest initial hurdle. These types of videos are awesome to help prioritize! I have a Yaesu FT3D, but haven't even tried Fusion yet. I feel less FOMO after watching this. I already have plenty of chat groups. I think my time is best spent exploring different antennas with what I have. Thanks!!!
Out of all the videos out there on the subject, this one actually got to the point best. Since I had already invested in some yaesu's that were not fusion radios, I went ahead and went all out and went fusion when I decided to dip my toe into the water. So far so good and you're right, fusion is the "cheapest" to get into out of the big manufacturers.
At least the FT70 is. I wasn't impressed with the FT2. At a $400 price tag, I expect a lot out of a handheld and while I was intrigued by functions, display and touch screen, the programming and driver issues killed it for me very quickly.
@@K6UDA I got a FTM 3200DR. Wasn't expensive at all,$135 from gigaparts, plenty of watts out and I move it back and forth between home and pickup. Not too many fusion repeaters in area, but I can hit a few and I'm learning the digital ropes.
,
okay, a few weeks ago I made the statement that Hoshnashi was also into air rifles. I'm a dork. I confused him with Hajimoto productions. I can't remember which video it was on, but I found this one. sorry for the confusion. Now, where did that beer go?
Re DMR in the UK. There is a great codeplug that covers the whole UK, and the analogue repeaters too. Moonraker have a dual band DMR and analogue codeplug for their HT500D, which is the same as a Retevis RT 82 and a TYT2017.
It also works on the RT3s.
Thanks for the video!
I recently picked up a Yaesu FT-70D at a Ham flea market for a hundred bucks. It's my first foray into digital amateur radio of any kind, and I have been pleasantly surprised by System Fusion's ease of use, especially after having attended a DMR presentation at a ham club meeting. Getting on a local WiresX repeater was easier than getting on the local analog repeaters and I was pleased to be able to participate without having to buy a Hotspot. This video seems very well considered - thank you.
Appreciate your thoughts on this. I dove in with DMR right off the bat originally and was sort of discouraged and got away from things due to the rally subpar FM performance and I thought that was just how it is. Looking into Fusion stuff right now as it looks very well supported out here. Have a good one!
These aren't the only digital modes. What about P25 and NXDN?
P25 equipment is expensive and NXDN just doesn't have a large following. DMR, DSTAR, and YSF are really the big 3 for amateur use.
Great video but it really doesn't matter which is best. In my area there are no Fusion repeaters and on a couple of DSTAR repeaters. But DMR is king around here. Having the best digital system means nothing if there is no one to talk to. a hotspot can help some but that isn't really ham radio now is it?
In my area, DMR and Fusion are about tied. There's only one DStar repeater.
Don't forget, if you have a Shark hotspot, a DMR radio will allow you to work Fusion as well, because the Shark transcodes. Equally, a Fusion radio can access DMR via the Shark. No transcoding available to/from D-Star though... D-Star to D-Star through the Shark is fine.
I think your dmr radio might be part of the experience. I can take my BTECH DMR-6X2 anywhere there is a DMR repeater and program it from the front panel in seconds. Also, it works fine on analog FM.
Agreed, I have the Anytone 878 and one I figured out the menu I can do the same. This was my first ham radio.
Hey Man, Just Curious How It Held Up, Do You Still Think It's As Good As You Did Three Years Ago?
One of the best videos in the Internet that brings immense clarity on different radios in the digital platform. I guess now have to first survey the repeaters in my country and then take a final call whether to go for a DMR, DSTAR or a Fusion handy. Really appreciate all your efforts in creating these videos and making it simple to understand.
Greetings from Bangalore, India.
73s
VU3TQT
I'm getting into the conversation late (Tech 1/2023, General 3/2023). I bought the Yaesu FT-5D as my first radio, but not really for getting into "rooms". I chose it because the local Ham club runs Yaesu repeaters and I was impressed by both the build quality and value per dollar; I got the FT-5D instead of a less expensive Yaesu HT because I wanted some I won't outgrow quickly. (My backup HT is the Explorrer QRZ-1, and already it seems a bit limiting.)
Nice thing about System Fusion radios is that they can be set to go between digital and analog automatically, depending on the signal your radio receives. (System Fusion repeaters can do this too.) I don't think any other digital voice radios or modes offer this.
As for overall build quality, Icom and Kenwood are probably tops, but you pay a lot more for both brands. My Yaesu is well-made, pretty rugged, and delivers an honest 5 watt output on both 2m and 70cm. I even turned my FT-5D into a "sorta" mobile rig by adding a trunk-mount antenna and speaker-mic, with the radio in a cup-holder mount; works well, limited only by the 5-watt output.
Both DMR and D-Star interest me, and I may try one or both when I start dabbling in Ham VOIP ... but that's not a priority. I also want a VHF mobile rig (and maybe a different vehicle), an HF base station (and maybe a different home QTH where I can erect antennas), my Amateur Extra license -- not necessarily in that order.
Fusion works well...and the AMS mode is great on fusion. It will let analog or digital contact you
After looking at the video i am going with fusion my club has a fusion repeater. We were one of the first clubs to get one when fusion started. I am new the digital stuff. Starting fresh with new equipment. Been off the air for years getting my feet wet like a new ham again.
I would say, what is best depends on what you plan using the most, the Kenwood is a great choice if you want to use all three bands, talk on D-star, use aprs & packet and want to listen to shortwave radio with it, if all you want is FM analog on vhf/uhf, then you probably don't need the extra cost to operate D-star and listen to shortwave and or use the 220 mhz 1.25 meter band. More of a preference as to what you want for capabilities vs. what you will actually use on the radio. 73's
In my area most of the nearest repeaters are fusion. So, as a beginner, I will buy a radio with fusion. I would also suggest with DMR, one doesn't know if your particular radio will be supported for long.
My Anytone D878UV plus I can set the mic gain, I think it is the only DMR radio that you can adjust the mic gain, but I don't know all radios so there may be another. I am very happy with my Anytone and just added the D578UVIII
As a new Ham operator to the Digital world . this was a great presentation.. Thank you...!
I have the MD380 and a SharkRF Openspot and use my phone and a TP Nano for WiFi, battery pack for portable use.I can do DMR, FCS, and WiresX. The analog part of the MD 380 is great no complaints. Cheap way to go
Wish p25 was mentioned on this list
P25 is a sub mode of DMR but it's so uncommon in the ham world, I didn't include it. Probably because I don't own one. On an experience note, during the last few years as a cop, my agency spent 13 million converting to a P25 system. It was so bad, we couldn't understand each other. I literally would tell citizens to call 911 if shooting started because the radio system was so worthless.
P25 Phase 1 predates DMR.
@news_internationale2035 indeed and it is still far superior
You had me all set to get the Kenwood and now I find they were discontinued in December 2020 with no replacement unit forecasted. That just figures....
Best video on digital voice I've seen. Thank you Bob for a fair assessment of them all. Here in Iowa DMR is prevalent, but for me being in a rural setting, I have all three and use a hotspot for them. It's a hoot to listen to folks all over the world on any of these modes. Thank you for this video... enjoyed the quip about other languages... LOL.
Thanks.
I'm learning more and more! Dstar is big in my area. I'm leaning icom id-52 unless I can find a good used radio. I have a id4100 as my mobile
Just noticed we have the same MFJ clock. I like it a lot.
Ive got two 7100 clock radios, one mobile one shack, the best versatile radios Ive ever had
Thanks Bob, great video. I started out with DMR and wrote my own code plug which was a experience. I then found a used Icom ID 51a and began getting acquainted with D-Star. Then at club last month we had a presentation System Fusion C4FM. So... I bought a Yaesu FT5 dr. Still working on the setup for Fusion but it is exactly as you said they all can do about the same thing at the end point. Glad to hear you explain it is very easy terms for all of us.
73 Jeff KE0KRO.
Hey Bob. I had a blast talking with you last night. So glad to meet you. I was itching to see this. Great job!!
For someone like me who is just starting, this is a great, down to earth presentation. Big help.
D-Star repeaters on Oahu got pulled so none here. DMR is scarce and can't hit the repeaters from home. Zilch Fusion/Wires-X so I bought an OpenSpot2 Hotspot. Have the Icom ID51A from 7 years ago and now it's getting some action plus just picked up an Anytone D878 DMR radio.
I first got my license in 1967 but let it lapse in the late 90s. I just got it back and digital amateur radio is new to me. This is the best, cut to the chase video about the subject I have seen. Thank you.; W1RNY
I don't know anything about ham and radios, but it sounds interesting. What is the best way to start? Is it analog, is it digital, DMR, D-Star, ....? I'm from Europe and want to listen to world wide conversations. I'm not really the talking guy. Just listening to get some interesting information or news before they are in the mainstream media.
Thank you, for this chat. I am totally new to digital. I am mostly working from home, and am in a motorized wheelchair whether home or not. We have multiple repeaters locally, of all flavors. I think I will grab that Yaesu 70, and maybe the Kenwood too.
Bob, that's a nice review of all 3 digital modes. Some DMR radios seem to be trying to find a middle ground with frequent firmware updates. I did not hear you mention the ID 31a Plus that comes in around $250 and a $25 rebate. The D-STAR radios have the repeater coordinates stored in the radio and uses the GPS (when turned on) which is how I believe it can find repeaters almost anywhere.
A guy on fusion told me that you can go access different places with each of the different modes which seems to be true. D-STAR can remotely access specific repeaters as well as reflectors. DMR can access TGs and reflectors (although not common practice with reflectors) but not remotely to repeaters like D-STAR. Using a hotspot blurs the lines a bit. All in all it's very interesting.
I could have gone on and on about Icom D-Star radios, D-Star on HF, D-Rats ect.. The video was already almost twice as long as I like to make them and the main focus is the new ham.
@@K6UDA I hear your point.
Your wrap up - if you have a lot of Fusion Dstar or DMR in your area you want to go that route! Right on. Enjoyed your informative video - except for the change in volume between you filming indoors then outdoors. Thanks for the info!
Volume is my nemesis. switching between different cameras, mics and ambient conditions is not an easy task.
@@K6UDA It was fine, hams have AGC. :)
8:25 They aren't restricted to ONLY D-Star repeater locations, are they?? The "NEAR REPEATER" functionality has pretty much made me an Icom only guy, since so far it's an Icom only feature as near as I can tell
I got my ham license about 18 years ago. I opted to not go down the digital path. Digital is very cool, but I think we are missing the point. Ham operators live by the motto " when all other forms of communications fail". The problem I see is that digital radios are setting themselves up to fail just like our professional radio counterparts. In an emergency, who wants to program a radio with a laptop in order to communicate with someone else? How cool would it be to just turn a dial and talk? I personally travel full-time in a motorhome, and pulling out my laptop to program my radios every time just plain sux. Seems like GMRS is the best path for me. But thanks for taking the time to share this info.
you are mistaken. Ham operators DON'T live by the motto " when all other forms of communications fail". Dorks live by that motto. Hams that think amateur radio is only for emergencies are living in la la land. It's entertainment - a hobby. And repeaters fail all the time - they don't even need an emergency to fail. Those who think other forms of communication will fail in a disaster, but repeaters won't are naive. HF is another story though. Also, the only radios that require a laptop to program are Cheap Chinese Junk, and DMR radios. Most Icoms, Yaesu, and Kenwood are fairly simple to front panel program. So if you don't want to have to use a computer to program a radio, then don't buy Cheap Chinese or DMR. But you should probably stay with GMRS -
Can I ask a question? How would you compare The D74 to the Ft3dr??
Hey, I'm planning on traveling internationally next year and am getting my First Ham HT (I have a DMR from Motorola that a Friend gave me, that i really don't want to take on a plane knowing baggage handlers!!) and was wondering what system would work best over a both America, the UK and EU. I don't mind programming for hours but would like to load a few thousand Repeater's for the country's/states I will be going to and then not have to worry to much. anyone got advice?
Actually, if all your looking for is analog repeaters and maybe some simplex work, I'd stick with a super cheap HT like a Baofeng UV5R. If you want to do digital too then opt for something like a Yaesu FT60 or a possibly an Anytone DMR radio. Why? Your concerned about airport security or baggage handlers losing, destroying or confiscating your radio. Plus, remember when traveling internationally, your USA license is not valid unless your an extra traveling in countries with a license treaty. I can personally tell you that I've had customs in other countries grab up my ham gear and were ready to keep it until I proved I had a reciprocal license for their country. Luckily I did.
I got a way to get on DMR in October 2018. Nice one way to get communicated across the world.
You're right about: all 3 modes are simply the same , and user can take him/her choice which way to get connected.
73
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. I have been a ham since the early 1990's but took a bit of a break from amateur radio in part due to my job. I worked as an EMS Lieutenant and a lot of my time was spent in the communications center...surrounded by radios. Anyway...I have since retired (Jan 2017) and I am getting back into ham radio. I dug through the closet and set up my shack and car with some older equipment. As I started plugging in local repeaters...I was noticing comments/notations in the ARRL repeater directory that I did not recognize. Apparently we have gone digital in a number of places :-) Deciding upon which mode to follow....kinda reminds me of the Beta VS VHS decision a while back and the BluRay Vs...I don't remember...Vs another format....
Anyway...time for me to re-educate myself about amateur radio and your video gave me a great start. Thanks again! Scott N1KMX
Welcome back to the hobby
Thanks for another great video and thanks for the QSO yesterday. I started with D-Star and then bought a DMR radio. Of the two I enjoy D-Star the most. After watching your video. Now I’m tempting to try Fusion. Thanks again.
Billy N5DEA
Great to talk to you yesterday. And I'm always happy to help spend other peoples money.
K6UDA my kids and wife like to spend my money too. I’ll add you to that list. Now I’m waiting for your OpenSpot2 video.
Take it easy73s
Billy N5DEA
So true the choice is a matter of personal preference. I have all three and here is what i have managed to derive. DMR is popular now but even the high end HT are either super expensive Motorolas or made in China. Yeasu System Fusion is really easy and the FT 70 is alot of bang for you buck. D-Star is my personal favorite because of the ability to locate near by repeaters by your GPS location. Also D-Star is the most popular in my area. The Icom 51plus two is my current EDC.
K6UDA, this the best explanation of the price, quality and usage of the 3 digital radio systems. Thanks for building an excellent video that helps radio users to make their decision.
Thanks. My goal is to make the most watchable, easy to understand videos in Ham Radio.
Modern commercial radios require an entitlement key to program 25khz channels after the narrowband mandate in most cases. Once you do that and program them up the audio is on par with any other FM handheld out there. Not having FPP / VFO is a major drag however. Thanks for sharing !
I heard that, but it didn't seem to work for me.I still get low audio reports using my DMR radios.
15:00 I took your advice and bought an FT'70DR at MTC yesterday for 150 dollars delivered. Today I got an email saying they were out of stock and asked me to wait an unspecified time for them to receive an order from Yaesu. I cancelled the order and am now ordering from Gigaparts for the same price. Stocking dealers should stock the items they're selling.
If they advertise it as in stock it should be.
How does the radio use a hotspot? IOW, how does it know what IP address to connect up with for any particular 'reflector', 'chat room', and so forth? Your post is old, so I'm not expecting an answer but ... anyway ...
Hey Bob. How about doing some workshops on the Basics of DStar, Fusion and DMR in their on video. I have use DMR for about 6 years now. I’ve put up a couple of DMR Repeaters. Tried DStar it’s all confusing to me. Fusion I’ve yet to try. Like on DStar I don’t know what reflector, room, etc. to get on. But I’m interested as I have a couple of Icom DStar portables. Have a good day. For DMR you need an Anytone 878.
If I understand things correctly, DSTAR was designed for amateur radio users from the ground up. The other digital modes have been "adapted" for amateur radio and are not as user-friendly. DSTAR has been around now for about 20 years.
Great summary!! I've not heard it said that clearly anywhere else! Definitely helped me, along with a search for local digital repeaters, choose the best option for me.
If you were a Full Time RV'er , which radio would you chose out of these 3?
My wife and I are Full Time Rv'ers and I'm interested in getting a handheld Ham Radio.
It pretty much depends on which mode you want to operate in addition to analog. If you’re working off of a hotspot then you could pick any of them. If you want the best for an all-around radio the Kenwood D 74 is probablyYour best pick
Good info. One nitpicking point, your volume level jumps back and forth when you change from inside to outside. Have to hit the volume every time.
Thanks. I'll try and watch the levels closer.
Your videos are excellent, even if the sound changed some! 73, Happy New Year!
I am radio shopping and Bob's video answered everything for me. Thank you Bob for the info and content.
Bob, I enjoyed the relaxed-style video (all of 'em) Just gotta say - You are the sorta guy that makes me just want to sit out there on your Patio and rag-chew ham-radio with you for hours! - but your videos are next best thing - Thanks!
Thank you!!
I have at least one radio for all the digital modes (D-Star, Fusion, DMR, P25, and even NXDN), plus a Wires-X node and a bunch of mmdvm’s. (Not to mention a few AllStar nodes too.). Comparing the DV modes isn’t something I really like doing as it’s kind of like comparing oranges and tangerines, but DMR is very cheap to get into (there are many DMR CCR’s), plus if someone new learns DMR first, the other modes will be extremely simple afterwards. Not that DMR is overly complex, but it does involve some simple TDMA multiplexing. Having worked with mux’d supergroup trunks consisting of hundreds of channels before, mux’ing two 6.25 KHz channels (TimeSlots in DMR terminology) is trivial. The downsides to DMR is that there isn’t much dynamic audio range when it’s being funneled through a 6.25 KHz straw. Also, DMR gets its roots from the commercial world in Europe, so using it for amateur use is kind of like putting a square peg into a round hole, same with P25 and NXDN. D-Star and Fusion were created by amateur radio for amateur radio and imo, the reflectors on those modes tend to carry more interesting QSO’s. Try them all out and see which you like. By starting with DMR, if you aren’t sure about Fusion (or P25), you can use crossmode to get a slight feel of their reflectors before investing in an actual radio for them. Yes, there are apps too like DroidStar, but the AQ won’t be as good as a native radio. Also; by having native radios for the modes, you can use them also with just repeaters or even simplex’s. Just because they are digital doesn’t mean they have to be internet linked, it just means they are digital. Have fun and explore them all, but imo, it probably makes most sense to start with DMR if you want to check them all out eventually. I’m now into FreeDV (a HF DV mode).
Great video. Thanks for the explanation. Locally, I have a Fusion repeater. No D-star. The local ham shop said there's lots of DMR usage in the area. I'm leaning towards the FT-70dr at the point as I want to go analog with it as well. Since you don't like the analog capabilities of the DMR offerings so far, that kind of seals it for me.
Another great video Bob. Since there are no Digital repeaters near me I will wait until your open spot video to show me what all that involves. There is a guy that has his Fusion open that I have gone thru to get to the groups on Wires X. Keep them videos coming
I’m old and only had DStar until a lightning strike took it out.
What I want to know is Fusion? What can it do? My area has most everything so that’s not a problem, but we do travel (stateside).
73, de kb0wzh
I am new to all of this but I am interested in digital radio. There is one DMR repeater in my area but I live in a small town and I would like to explore the possibilities of DMR on the web. Yes, I am on a budget so I am leaning on the DMR radios for that reason. I appreciate how you spelled all of the options out. Now, if I can find a source of information that takes me through setting up a DMR radio and a hotspot, I will start this journey.
Thanks Bob, very helpful. The Kenwood TH-D74 seems to be out of stock in the UK. I wonder if a newer model is in the pipeline from Kenwood?
Btw, not offended by your comment but we do speak a kind of English here in the UK :-)
i BOUGHT A DMR RADIO , AN ALINCO DJ MD5, IT WILL CONNECT TO ANYTHING AS LONG AS I GET A HOT SPOT, THIS IS THE NEXT THING. I ALMOST BOUGHT THE YAESU 70 DIGITAL RADIO BUT I WANTED A BIGGER SCREEN AND THIS RADIO IS PRETTY NICE AND HAS ALOT OF CAPABILITY. I REALLY LIKE THE KENWOOD BUT NOT IN THE BUDGET AT THIS TIME. HAVE FUN. 73.
Bob, can you tell me how to connect a FT 70DR radio to IRLP. Mine will connect to wiresX but can't figure out how to connect to an IRLP repeater. It has to be simple. Thanks for you video above. I am a new hammer and at 64 years young, this is my hobby from now on. I'm Ed, call sign KO4AFE in Athens, AL.
I'm no IRLP guru, but from what I understand, you need to setup IRLP on a repeater and use the radio on that repeater.
Great video, I know there's been some changes since this video was made, but everything is still very relevant. I will say that I haven't had audio issues on analog with my BTech (Basically an Anytone) DMR radio. It's my go to travel radio. Its not the simplest and most easy to program from the keypad, but I can do it. And it works great on analog as well.
The only thing is it dosnt have my beloved 220 MHz band.
Get the same digital modes as your friends! Someone to talk to. Someone to help with configuration. Well done, Randy
Hi Randy, your absolutely correct....where your friends are Pete Willmott VK3TQ ex Icom Australia PS Really Like your videos too !!
K7AGE friends are world wide are they not? What is the purpose of a system like this if not to connect with the entire world?
The real question is what's available in your area regarding repeaters or what you're HAM friends are using.
I keep hearing that. I checked the Repeaterbook for my area and it seemed about even with respect to repeater locations.
Right now D-star is my preference...but DMR isn't that bad. If you have time to setup the code plug you can use those repeaters or invest in a hotspot.
I need to try SystemFusion rig yet.
I have to call signs, one for the USA and one for Panama. I have DMR ID's for both, do I have to use two radios or can I change the ID when we are living in Panama, 6 - months out of the year. I realize that I have to use the correct call signs depending on the country we are in.
You can enter both in your radio and pick the one you want.
I consider getting the ID-4100 for my truck. It does all I need and it will find repeaters near me. On top the 4100 is small enough for install and the price is great. This video is a great help to definitely skip the DMR stuff. Thanks
I agree with Demizer1968. I have been watching videos on digital modes the last couple days trying to understand what the differences are. Most of the videos lost me in all the technicalities. Don't get me wrong; i like and appreciate the talk on packets and such (i am a network tech) but i just want to know -in a nutshell- what the practical differences are and which is best for what or if they have specific uses.
It took me a few videos before i realized that APRS was literally just a location/tracking beacon type feature and not a voice modulation mode the way C4FM is. And it took me a while to realize that C4FM is the modulation method while System Fusion, Wires-X, DMR, and D-STAR are the systems/platforms through which digital modes can travel around the country/world. To be fair, maybe your video made this much sense to me after having seen all the others; and thus yours just tied it all together for me. Thanks!
How many of them can talk to another radio without a repeater and internet?
All of them.
The D-Star ambe code patent expired, 2017, so I think we'll see better prices and more units over the next few years.
Excellent. Just getting started. It's a great hobby and looking forward to diving in a bit deeper
Thanks and welcome to the hobby.
Thank you so much Sir, Bob K6UDA. I've been watching TH-cam all about Digital Ham Radio. My call sign VE7JLC, Now I understand those 3 Radios, in my area they are using DSTAR the way each
radio is different mode, I search more before i get into it. My question is DSTAR is majority in North America......73 Sir.
Thanks. I think it depends on locale. In my area D-Star is king. In some other areas DMR rules. Back east, There's a lot of Fusion repeaters. Log into Rfinder or Repeaterbook and search your area. Then base your decision on that.
Thank You So Sir Bob K6UDA, two years ago started moto camping and i would like to with me HT devise can do digital mode. Thanks again...73 Sir.
Please mention AMS feature of the Yaesu Fusion radios, to auto switch from Analogue FM to and from the C4FM mode... Doug, KB1YLZ, CAARA, MA...
"If I offended you, too bad". If that isn't already on a T-shirt, it should be. Great stuff, Man. Thank You.
I've been trying to understand all this digital mode stuff...GREAT VIDEO!
I am also trying to decide between buying a FUSION, DMR, or DSTAR mobile radio. I'm considering the Anytone 578 (DMR), and the Yaesu FT300DR (Fusion). The Anytone has 220mhz., the Yaesu does not. But, repeaters on 220Mhz are becoming less prolific, and some believe they're on the way out in the USA, with some of the band width being skimmed-off by the FCC to other services. So, while the Anytone has the band width advantage, as well as a stellar reputation for performance, I'm leaning toward the Yaesu, simply because the 220 band isn't that desireable to have. And, I've been a Yaesu guy for 35 years, and their quality/performance is generally outstanding.
Of the two repeaters in my rural area, one is Fusion, less than a mile from my house, and the other that is ten miles away is multiple mode capable, DMR, DSTAR, and FUSION.
I also have a Yaesu FT3R (Fusion), and could take it along when traveling, and easily access all the Fusion Repeaters while traveling in urban areas. If you have a cheapy with you that's DMR (Baofeng, TYT, etc...), then just use it to access DMR repeaters if need be, and the Baofengs are easy to program with CHIRP open source software.
The way I see it, the real remedy is to take along the Shark OpenSpot 3 when traveling, and that seems to totally level the playing field so you can access any and all of the digital modes through your cell phone's internet connection. And, the Shark Open Spot 3 can just as easily be employed on your home turf as well. Of course, these various options with respect to cost assume that cost is no option, especially with the Shark Open Spot 3 ($300.00).
Now, these are all assumptions on my part because I'm just getting started, and trying to uderstand the options. Do I understand the options about right?
I have a Fusion radio, and I love it. You can operate on Fusion or DMR if you use a Pi-star hot spot. It seems the most versatile that you can use it on two of the digital modes.
My first exposure to the new digital models and you did just a great job. Very clear, very helpful.
is it possible to communicate between the 3 digital systems not using a repeater ?
Thanks for this video and giving us the unvarnished truth. I picked up a DMR handheld a couple of weeks ago to play with. One of the things in the back of my head was using it for travel and you answered that question. My solution is to bring my hotspot along, but it sure would be nice to be able to use it in a strange city without a lot of pre-programing and searching for repeater information. Your information helped there and one of the other modes may also be in my future.
Sorry to be the bearer of that bad news. There's some DMR guys that disagree and say everything can be done from the front panel and done quickly but when pressed for details I'm told "its complicated". I don't understand complicated.
Ailuance hd1. In contacts enter contact ID, group, and it's name. In band a or b set choose your color code , time slot, and select the contact you just made. Done from the front panel. Under 30 seconds.
I travel through 4 states almost every weekend for off roading. Use it all the time on the fly. The HD-1's campaign literally is the dmr radio made for amatures.
And before anyone else chimes in, I have the latest firmware, the volume has been corrected, my tx power isn't off, and yes I only use Ailuance antennas. Overall zero issues with it and I use it almost daily
There's the details.
In Australia we have a national D-Star program for the 51A and the 5100 with ALL analog and Digital repeaters in Australia with their respective GPS location Data programmed in A lot of hours and hours of work to program but its done. Now the "Near Repeater Function works in D-Star AND analog. Really great in a big country like Australia Try and get a crappy TYT to do that, and then export to excel to program other Icom radios, DMR is for Masochists
The most important issue is who has the most robust repeater network in your area. In New England, DMR is King, hands down.
How do you find out which is best for your geographical location? In other words how can I find out how many dStar repeaters in my area and if I can reach it? So these digital signals carry further than analog signals?
Look at repeaterbook or RFinder. You can plug in a distance from your location and see everything near you.
Just picked up a D74. Less than 4hrs of use whiling running APRS and listening on 2m it shut down and will not power on. :( Such a cool full featured radio. I hope to have my replacement early next week. I have been struggling to get registered on DStar system. All the register web links in my area will not load. I hope to figure that out once I get me replacement D74 even if I do not use it for Dstar. Such a cool radio. Now I may purchase a Ft-70 as well. Thanks a lot Bob, you enabler. I am becoming a radio junkie. :)
Most coke dealers say the first taste is free. After that it sells itself.
When you get your new radio, If you run the battery down to low the radio will shut off and not charge until you remove the battery and replace it. Then charge the battery with the radio off. After a few cycles the battery will last several hours longer.
@@K6UDA Got my replacement and is working great. Always better when a radio will turn on and power up. :)
Would love an in depth D Star tutorial with the Icom ID51a
I have DMR, DSTAR, and Fusion radios. Because as a HAM and I travel I have different radio options for the different areas. KG5RIZ
A great video comparison at 10k foot level, Bob ... It should certainly help people on the decision fence on mode or $ to make a good decision. Thumbs up!
That's huge coming from Dr. Balun.
I have a Yaesu with Fusion/WIRES in my mobile and that's all I want in that vehicle. I get a giggle out of listening to and very occasionally talking around the world from my vehicle and that's all I use WIRES for. However ...
I'm interested in DMR because our local Skywarn Amateur Radio Coordinator (SARC) has asked us (I'm a Net Manager with a few more responsibilities than an NCO) to "consider" DMR for alternate Net Ops during an activation. What I want to be able to do is just use DMR from my shack in whatever is the simplest, cheapest means possible. So I'm thinking about a cheap, very low end HT paired with a DMR hotspot connected to my (very powerful) computer. I have fantastic internet ...
If I'm out spotting weather for the NWS I'm always going to be on analog radio with a mobile phone for backup. Period. Many of our guys in my AO only have analog and analog is plenty good enough for mobile functions for my purposes.
If I'm at my desk (in my Shack/Office/Shop/Man Cave) there's the possibility that I might run a net during an activation over DMR. Whatever DMR setup I get will never leave the Shack.
I'm not a "Ham Radio Enthusiast", I don't give a fig for talking on radios as a hobby. I'm only interested in the EmCom aspect of my radio equipment. There are things I do with my time that I personally find a lot more interesting and fruitful than talking to strangers all around the world. That's just me, I'm not criticizing the hobby or those who enjoy it.
So ... Any suggestions to get where I want to be with this stuff? Input would be greatly appreciated.
I started out with a ID-51 primarily for analog. I just loved the versatility. Got me a 5100 and decided to start with DSTAR. Waiting on a hotspot so I don't have to tie up 30c (which my local repeater is always connected to) if I just want to have some QSOs. I love how easy DSTAR is once you know what you're doing. I'm looking into DMR just to play with (still seems very daunting). I plan on eventually getting into fusion, at some point. But for that I might spring for the ft-3dr.
I'm developing a quick release mount and exploring the possibility of an adhesive plate that goes on a radio's back panel. This would be instead of the belt clip or buying a dedicated pouch. Similar to how GoPro does it, just beefier. It would allow you to attach, detach, and reattach your radio to your belt, backpack strap, or molle gear in 1 second, and would cost something like two for $10. Would anyone be interested in that? Good idea? Stupid idea? Any input would be much appreciated.
Sounds interesting. I’ll review it when you get close and give you feedback.
@@K6UDA Thanks for the reply and offer! I'll let you know when I'm there!
I liked the video overall was a great intro into all digital voice modes. The only 2 things I disagree with are 1. they all sound the same, and 2. DMR requires a code plug when you move out of your "Area". Response: I've listened to all modes and at least to me fusion still has the clearest and less "robotic" sound (can be compromised if the tx'r has a bad connection). 2. you can build code plugs to cover large swath of areas and you dont have to limit the code plug to just your local area and as you said in the video you need a code plug for each place you go. There is really no limit to the areas you cover in a code plug aside from the storage in the radio. You dont need a separate code plug every time you move around. There is also manual programming that can be done from good DMR radios.
I flew to another city with my md-380. I edited my existing code plug through the front panel of the radio, and was on chatting with the local repeater in 5 mins. Just had to edit the TX/RX freq, and maybe the slot depending on what I was doing.
From all the code plugs I've played with, you have to edit the frequency for each talk group. That just sounds like such a pain in the ass.
K6UDA, it is a pain in the ass, but when I flew to someplace else, the first place I go is back to my local TG. So I edit the TX/RX, then move the slot from 2 to 1, and presto! The remote brandmeister repeater is running as if I was hanging out in my garage with my regular group. The thing I like, is most repeaters are busy on the local side, so no one usually minds, or knows you are using it to chat with your local repeater. With Dstar, you pretty much always have to group negotiate where the silly thing is going to be linked. And that sucks!
I went out and bought both the Yaesu FT-70D and the Kenwood TH-D74. I have to say after using them both for a year, I love them both. Most of my repeaters around me are YSF/WIRESX or DMR but when I travel to a new area, it is so easy to get on D-Star if they have a repeater. And I use APRS on my Kenwood daily. I just need to get me a hotspot at home for home D-Star use.
Anyways, great video and content.
Is Wires-X similar on the FT-70DR as it is on your mobile FTM-200/300/400 (couldn’t tell which) you had in the Jeep.
Thank you for the detailed video, like you said everyone has their opinions about each. It was nice to hear the good and bad about each mode and their respective radios.
very clear and concise... I would only add that among those radios shown, only the Kendwood D74 has APRS built in! Thanks, and have fun
I am trying tom immerse myself in all of the modes. I agree, one is not better than the other.
I think guys invest in one mode to start off with and emotionally lock themselves into it. They talk themselves into the notion that "their's" sounds better and is better than the other modes.
K6UDA Agreed!!!
Great video! Appreciate the clarity.
I took my Ailunce HD1 GPS to Ohio and without a computer being needed I was able to program in both DMR and Analog from the front keypad on the radio with no problem. So, it's one Digital radio that I know of that's so user friendly that no computer is needed to get it working on all of it's modes and talk groups.... It may be the only exception for not needing any "Code Plug" or computer to make it work...
Thanks Bob. Very informative. I went with the Yaesu FT70DR